I noticed that Sanders flip-flopped on Obama.

[Evergreen Emerald]

He has been distancing himself from Obama over these past months...and yet tonight he was all complements. Sanders does things for political expediency.

[Scootaloo]

1. How has he been "distancing himself from Obama?"

Be specific.

[JaneyVee]

2. Maybe suggesting a 2012 primary challenge to him?

[Scootaloo]

20. As pointed out below, that's not accurate at all.

What's more, 2012 was considerably more than 3 months ago.

Try again, janeyVee

[uponit7771]

60. this is false, he did suggest that Obama have a primary challenge

[Fearless]

3. He hasn't. It's a lie.

[Agschmid]

4. What about that status quo?

[Fearless]

6. What about it?

[Agschmid]

9. Sanders is running against it...

Obama is it.

[Fearless]

10. Are you saying Obama is a corporate shill?

Because that's what Bernie is running against, corporatism.

[bravenak]

11. He called for a primary of Obama in 2012c

[Fearless]

15. Actually he didn't, you're lying.

"But if a progressive Democrat wants to run, I think it would enliven the debate, raise some issues and people have a right to do that," Sanders said. "I've been asked whether I am going to do that. I'm not. I don't know who is, but in a democracy, it's not a bad idea to have different voices out there."

The prospect of fielding a primary challenger to run against Obama has been tossed around in light of mediocre approval numbers for the president and the defeats suffered by Democrats in the midterm election last year.

HuffPost's Sam Stein pointed out that former president Bill Clinton had come under much heavier scrutiny from members of his party when in office. After facing Democratic skepticism in the wake of substantial losses in the 1994 midterm races, he rebounded before his own reelection in 1996.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/837819

[beam me up scottie]

30. Well there goes another meme.

Good job!

[bravenak]

57. .

https://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-talks-primary-challenge-obama-good-idea-our-democracy-and-democratic-part/

[uponit7771]

63. Facts at this point don't matter to FUD, that's what this is ... they flip flop often

[beam me up scottie]

78. .

“Here’s the point: If you’re asking me, do I think, at the end of the day, that Barack Obama is going to be the Democratic candidate for president in 2012? I do. But do I believe that it is a good idea for our democracy and for the Democratic Party—I speak, by the way, as an independent—that people start asking the president some hard questions about why he said one thing during his previous campaign, and is doing another thing today on Social Security, on Medicare. I think it is important that that discussion take place.”

[bravenak]

93. That does not say he did not want him primaried.

[beam me up scottie]

94. You said he called for a primary.

When are you going to prove it?

[Capt. Obvious]

97. There's a letter saying he did

[beam me up scottie]

98. !

[bravenak]

99. I did.

[beam me up scottie]

101. Where is it?

But Sanders says: “Here’s the point: If you’re asking me, do I think, at the end of the day, that Barack Obama is going to be the Democratic candidate for president in 2012? I do. But do I believe that it is a good idea for our democracy and for the Democratic Party—I speak, by the way, as an independent—that people start asking the president some hard questions about why he said one thing during his previous campaign, and is doing another thing today on Social Security, on Medicare. I think it is important that that discussion take place."

[bravenak]

104. He said more than that. You cherry picked. I noticed how often people who use certain tactics repeat

them time and time again. I notice who they are nasty to and who they are nice to. I notice if they are kind to people in my group, the aa group, or not. I notice their behaivior, how they post non stop, cannot let any small slight pass, unless they are from their own group, they they are kind to folks who post very questionable posts that make the environment unwelcoming to my friends and fellow aa duers. It is very interesting what I find that they let pass, what people they zero in on for any inaccucracy, but they let all time horrible things pass without a sniff.

You know what I noticed most? The hypocrisy! Like this summer... Some people said the nastiest things about the two protestors in Seattle! They let racist post pass them By without a glance. They watched aa democrats targeted, and unfortunatelt, they joined in!! Can you believe they were even creating dossiers on the protestors in Seattle and slamming then for their relogious beilefs! Knowing that historically black people were not allowed to congregate in public and church was their only opportunity to asstert their right to assembly! Can you believe that those very same people moralize at others!?!?! Can you believe that BMUS? I can pm you some examples of hypocrisy of a certian interlocutor of mine that you know very well. If you want. I really don't wan't to put her on blast for the hypocrisy of her own terrible behaivior that she has not apologized or even acknowledged as of yet, instead opting to pretend it never happened and her hands are clean. I have watch this person devolved so I an in sympathy with her and truely think she will come out of it.

[beam me up scottie]

105. Focus bravenak, where in that article does it say that Bernie "called for a primary"?

[bravenak]

106. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=722371

[beam me up scottie]

107. Repeating a story over and over doesn't make it true.

[bravenak]

109. I am glad you finally know that fact.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=722371

[beam me up scottie]

111. Well at least you're reposting a different link over and over. That's progress!

[bravenak]

112. I sent you a message. I like you bmus. I hope it helps.

[beam me up scottie]

115. Nope, still not seeing where Bernie "called for a primary". Maybe if you tried posting the text?

[bravenak]

117. Look. I find it hard to address people who have done so much.

Have fun. I haven't re answered this because I have already. I know what the next step in the script is, and I know you have the hardest time not having the last word so you may just post to me again even though I am not likely to ever speak to you again in public unless it is my choice. Please do enjoy formulating the next series of questions or I told you sos that I am likely to recieve as it is the next step. I very much enjoyed this tete a tete, but my time is limited, many others have time to post thousands and thousands of posts monthly, but having so much to do and live for and enjoy in my actual life, I simply do not have the time for any series of 'link please? That's doesn't say what is says! It says this thing that it doesn't say. I told you you couldn't produce the evidence you already provided! Prove your case! Or admit your lying about what you already prived in the link that was twisted to say something else! I told you you couldn't prove it! Ha ha! I won.', sessions today so I am glad we didn't devolve into that before I decided to leave and pay so,e attention to my husband for a lil while. Good night BMUS. Enjoy the rest of it!! I hope our next chat ends in a positive way! You know how much I like you! I already said last post, but wanted to repeat it so you know how I feel.

[beam me up scottie]

139. Why don't you just address Armstead's post instead?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=722494

I noticed you ignored it and I'm wondering why since you replied to others since then.

[bravenak]

144. I can decide which posts to answer on my own, my friend.

Perhaps it would be best if people monitored their own posts and allowed others to answer or not answer posts that are made to themselves. Most people do not have the time to monitor the posts of others, having so much to do, friends to hang out with, but I keep getting yellows on my posts and had decided to email a few irl friends, and hang out for a while with my SO before my dear ones wake up and it starts all over. I also have a quiz. (I take some classes online, so Sunday is Quiz day.) After hanging out with some fellows from school and handling my biz (things to do!), I am tired and have much to do on the Morrow. Never fear! Although I am not on around the clock like a few others, I may have time tomorrow after the quiz. Maybe. You know how it is when so many people want your attention, right? Yep. Hard to get to them all.

Sometimes I wish I had time to post on DU day after day, not even breaking for much sleep! Just to make sure I win, ya know? But my friends keep intruding into my internet life. If not for them I might end up a lame, past my prime, internet troll or something, lol! Thanks god for people pulling me away from the screen!!! I get so sucked in!!

See ya around! Have a great night! Don't let the bedbugs bite!

[beam me up scottie]

154. That's what I thought. Oh well, it'll still be there when you wake up.

[bravenak]

157. Did you see upthread where I predicted a response like this?

Ahhh, you delight me with your innocence and simplicity!! This was nice!

If I believed in the supernatural I'd think I were psychic! I do so enjoy people proving my predictions on their behaviour correct! Does that happen to you often too? I deal with it constantly!

[beam me up scottie]

158. Since you have the time why can't you post the text from the article?

You know - where Bernie called for Obama to be primaried.

[bravenak]

159. It is posted in this thread already. To posts it more would be spamming. I am not interested.

Do you need anything else explained to you this morn? I am fully bored and sleepy, yet amused by you at the same time.

[beam me up scottie]

160. No it's not, and trust me, no one is more amused by this than I am.

[bravenak]

161. This is the part where we pretend, right? I love this part!!!!

I wish I had time, but I don't wanna rack up like 7,000 posts in 90 days!! I have to go to bed dear, I think you can find it yourself. I do not want anyone thinking they can force me to do their bidding. I am a feminist, gotta be assertive and say, please find it yourself. I simply googled 'bernie sanders wanted obama primaried', and it found it, I did not even use any caps!!! It's easy to find. I hesitate to encourage any types of codependency.

[beam me up scottie]

163. Asking you to prove your claim is trying to "force" you to do my bidding?

Oh my, that's quite an imagination you have.

It's obvious that you can't back it up and are now attempting to make it look like you're being bullied.

How utterly predictable.

And sad in a way, as a feminist I despise that tactic, it makes one look weak.

Armstead pointed out the difference and you refuse to acknowledge it, so we're done here.

The meme is dead.

[bravenak]

175. You can't kill a meme, silly! It will be in the Urban Dictionary before long and then, enter the

American Lexicon. This is exciting!!

If you are a feminist I must be a super de duper feminist.

My feminism makes it easy to make friends and stuff. I like women.

[boston bean]

142. here you go:

Between the tax cut compromise and new rounds of spending cuts, Senator Sanders doesn't see the government confronting the problem either. He's made his dissatisfaction with Democrats, Republicans and even President Obama loud and clear. Which begs the question: would a progressive candidate—perhaps Sanders—consider challenging Obama in a 2012 primary?

Sanders' name came up as a possibility following December's epic filibuster. It helped that the speech was also in the wake of a November beating suffered by Democrats, which challenged confidence in an Obama reelection effort. However, the Senator said he has ruled out a run.


I'm not a Democrat. I'm an Independent. But if a progressive Democrat wants to run, I think it would enliven the debate, raise some issues and people have a right to do that. I've been asked whether I am going to do that. I'm not. I don't know who is, but in a democracy, it's not a bad idea to have different voices out there.

http://www.wnyc.org/story/118406-bernie-sanders-speaking-independently/

You can actually listen to him say it in response to a specific question at around minute 17 if you follow the above link:

Q: With your dissatisfaction with President Obama for making that bush tax cut compromise that led to the filibuster that's now the book, are you considering or do you think any progressive democrat should consider a primary challenge to him for 2012?

A: I'm not a Democrat. I'm an Independent. But if a progressive Democrat wants to run, I think it would enliven the debate, raise some issues and people have a right to do that. I've been asked whether I am going to do that. I'm not. I don't know who is, but in a democracy, it's not a bad idea to have different voices out there.

[beam me up scottie]

153. That's not "calling for him to be primaried". Try again.

[boston bean]

155. LOL. I don't need to try anything again. nt

[Autumn]

184. If one had the magic circle d decoder ring "enliven the debate"

most likely would be code for "primary his ass because I'm a racist and I don't like him, so somebody PLEASE mount a primary challenge against Obama" That's just a guess but I don't see what else it could mean and I threw away my circle d decoder ring some time ago. Of course if one were to look at definition of the word enliven that kind of clears it up

en·liv·en
inˈlīvən,enˈlīvən/
verb
make (something) more entertaining, interesting, or appealing.
"the wartime routine was enlivened by a series of concerts"
synonyms: liven up, spice up, add spice to, ginger up, vitalize, leaven; More
make (someone) more cheerful or animated.
"the visit had clearly enlivened my mother"
synonyms: cheer up, brighten up, liven up, raise someone's spirits, uplift, gladden, buoy up, animate, vivify, vitalize, invigorate, restore, revive, refresh, rejuvenate, re-energize, stimulate, rouse, boost, exhilarate, light a fire under; informalperk up, buck up, pep up
"the visit had enlivened my mother"

I think Bernie was talking about firing up the democratic base and using the debates to push Democratic ideas out to the front on a national stage. Like this primary has. God knows the debates between Obama and Mitty were a fucking snooze fest.

[beam me up scottie]

185. There was a lot at stake when this happened.

The people who believe Obama can do no wrong don't want to admit it but then again they misremember everything.

How DARE anyone on the left criticize the president?

They must be racist!

Just like the "attacks" on Hillary are sexist!

[Scootaloo]

96. And now you're going down the most inane of logical fallacies.

The demand to prove a negative.

I warned you about the Twitters. Didn't I warn you? Now look at yourself.

[bravenak]

100. I am not even using twitter right now. Too many classes.

[Scootaloo]

179. Well, that's good, I guess. And hey! There ARE worse things than twitter. Like Barrens Chat.

[bravenak]

180. Oh!

[boston bean]

146. What are you her daddy? For real. Infantalizing bs right there.

[Scootaloo]

176. Nope. Are you?

It's a running joke between Bravenak and I, the brain-sucking power of insipid tweets and youtube comments.

Evidently she's not using Twitter. So it must be hanging out with all you hillaryclintonsupporters, and your third-grade reading level hate site.

[Armstead]

118. "Getting Primaried" is not the same as having a primary debate

"Getting primaried" happens when there is a potential vulnerability in a incumbent, and opponents withing their own party run a campaign in a serious attempt to unseat the incumbent in the primary, and have another candidate run in the general election.

That is totally different than what Sanders was referring to. Sanders -- like MANY people who otherwise basically supported President Obama -- was disappointed in some of what they saw as excessive moves by Obama towards the GOP on issues like taxes, budget and SS in his first term.

Sanders suggested that it would be helpful to debate issues in the primaries preceding the 2012 election because elections are, among otehr things, supposed to be a time when issues are debated, and politicians are held accountable. Or, as Obama himself said many times in his original election "make me accountable and tell me if you think I'm doing something wrong." (a paraphrase of one of his campaign themes.)

BUT -- and it is a key -- there was a 100 percent certainty that Obama was going to be the Democratic nominee. He was still, overwhelmingly supported and generally popular in the Democratic Party, including many who were critical of some aspects of his policies and/or performance.

There was NO expectation that someone else would replace Obama as the candidate. Sanders was not calling for someone to come along and fight to replace Obama against the GOP. Simply that the primary process actually include a debate about actual issues, and that President Obama actually answer questions that many people had.

That is NOT the same as calling for him to "be primaried."

[Stellar]

119. WOW, thank you for sharing...I didn't know that. nt

[bravenak]

132. You are welcome.

[uponit7771]

62. This is false, "I think it would be a good idea if President Obama faced some primary opposition"

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/07/22/277124/bernie-sanders-primary-obama/

SANDERS: Brian, believe me, I wish I had the answer to your question. Let me just suggest this. I think there are millions of Americans who are deeply disappointed in the president; who believe that, with regard to Social Security and a number of other issues, he said one thing as a candidate and is doing something very much else as a president; who cannot believe how weak he has been, for whatever reason, in negotiating with Republicans and there’s deep disappointment. So my suggestion is, I think one of the reasons the president has been able to move so far to the right is that there is no primary opposition to him and I think it would do this country a good deal of service if people started thinking about candidates out there to begin contrasting what is a progressive agenda as opposed to what Obama is doing. […] So I would say to Ryan [sic] discouragement is not an option. I think it would be a good idea if President Obama faced some primary opposition.

[Scootaloo]

83. Here ya go

Asked in March 2011 by WNYC host Brian Lehrer, “Are you considering — or do you think any progressive Democrat should consider — a primary challenge to (Obama) for 2012?” Sanders immediately responded: “Well, I’m not a Democrat. I am the longest serving independent."
“I think, you know, if a progressive Democrat wants to run, it would enliven the debate, raise some issues. And people have the right to do that,” he added.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/sanders-obama-supporters-214636#ixzz3pZ7hbKA9

When directly asked about a democratic primary against obama, sanders basically says "if htey want to do it, they can, it would liven the debate, not my department though."

Your quote that you're flogging around comes from Thom Hartman's show (Jul 22, 2011), when Sanders is responding to a caller (also named Brian, how many of these guys are there?) who asks:

"Hi guys, uhm, thank you for taking my call, and just got to say thank you, I'm a much better Americna because of both of you (Sanders and Hartman), and I'm very grateful for that. Bernie, if you won't run for president, and I really wish you would consider it, how - how can we get this country back on track? How can we get a government that (something, I can't make it out) and quits running this country like a for-profit machine? How do we do it?"

Actually, it only sort of comes from Hartman's show. because this part:

So I would say to Ryan discouragement is not an option. I think it would be a good idea if President Obama faced some primary opposition.

Is never spoken by Sanders. What comes after your bolded line is the following:

But I know people are demoralized. But we don't have, as Thom and I often say, is this, despair is not an option. 'Cause it's not just for us, it's for our kids and our grandchildren.

Your quote is wrong and misleading due to that. It's selective, ignoring context of questions posed to the Senator. And also? it was 2011, not 2012. Seriously if we can keep the year of Clinton's "Bedrock Principle" being that marriage is between a man and a woman straight (2013, and no pun intended) then c'mon, you guys can at least get the year of a hartman episode right.

Granted, your candidate did her speech in front of the United States Congress, and did so in an effort to deny civil rights to millions of Americans and so is a little more memorable than our guy rolling some go-nowhere ideas around on an internet radio show two years before. But you know... still, if you're gonna make an issue, get the date right.

[boston bean]

145. for the NYC interview you need to include the ENTIRE question to understand the answer fully.

Why you left part of it out, is unknown to me, but I can guess why you might.

[Agschmid]

34. No that's not what I'm saying...

But that is what I'm hearing. I keeping hearing about how horrible the status quo is... And yes America isn't perfect by any means, youth unemployment is high, wages are stagnant, social issues are boiling over. But if you think that the status quo needs to change it does reflect on your opinion of the Obama policy doctrine.

Which we all know isn't really celebrated her on DU.

I'm not calling him a shill by any means, and I always try to avoid that word. It's got way too much baggage associated with its use.

Listen we agree on most issues, we are in the same party, and when it comes down to it on the same side. I just think that we should give some credit to Obama when it's due.

[Autumn]

188. I find that to be confusing. Yes wages are stagnant, social issues are boiling over,

youth unemployment is high people are struggling to say above water, the banks and Wall Street fucked up the economy to where many of us will never recover we are staying in the Mideast longer than what he said , lives are being lost almost daily, healthcare costs are rising, our civil liberties are being eroded more and more. If we have decided we need to elect someone who will work on solving those issues that we feel need to be changed and not for a person who continues those policies it reflects our opinion of the Obama policy doctrine? He's out of office in January 2017 and he and his family will be just fine, better than 99% of American. In fact better than fine if the Clinton's and the Bush's are any measure. WTF So pardon me I can't bring myself to give a fuck about the Obama policy doctrine.

[Ed Suspicious]

51. +1

[uponit7771]

61. Strawman, we're talking about "status quo" and Sanders near conssumate criticism of Obama

...even palling around with his number one hater

[Scootaloo]

73. It's a bit early for clinton supporters to start using the Palinisms, isn't it?

Shouldn't you guys hold off until like... July before embracing Srah Palin... Again?

[beam me up scottie]

82. I think they forgot which website they're on.

[Scootaloo]

89. Oh, and also... Gotta pull an Inigo on you.

I do not think it means what you think it means.

con·sum·mate

adjective
ˈkänsəmət/
1.
showing a high degree of skill and flair; complete or perfect.
"she dressed with consummate elegance"
synonyms: supreme, superb, superlative, superior, accomplished, expert, proficient, skillful, skilled, masterly, master, first-class, talented, gifted, polished, practiced, perfect, ultimate; More

[Scootaloo]

22. Specifically?

[Agschmid]

36. I responded up thread if you want to read it.

[Scootaloo]

42. Yes, and you were very vague and hand-wavey.

What, in specific is Sanders against, with regard to President Obama? And to Evergreen emerald's point, how so in the last three months?

[Agschmid]

43. You know I actually don't think Sanders is really "against" Obama...

I think he respects the guy, and would continue many of his policy positions as would Clinton or for that matter O'Malley.

But that's kind of my point, I'm not always that elegant with my wording.

The status quo just isn't as bad as some make it out to be, but yes there is room for improvement and that's why we vote for the candidate we think can do that.

[Scootaloo]

46. Bernie's whole point is "the status quo should be better."

And the entire point of this thread - a point you seem to be awkwardly supporting - is that he has been "distancing hismelf from obama"

So. Why is improving the situation so bad? Where has he opposed Obama, as Evergreen emerald claims?

[Agschmid]

47. I didn't make that claim really...

So I'm not clear on what specific event they are speaking of?

We may never know.

[mhatrw]

76. What crap. Sanders always says Obama is unfairly demonized by Republicans.

He always says Obama should be praised to high heaven for cleaning up Bush's mess.

And he always says that Obama has not been able to successfully take on the powerful establishment, and we need a political revolution in order to do more. much more, than Obama has done.

Both are 100% true, and Sanders has been 100% consistent about both of these truths.

[stevenleser]

5. How dare you say such Sacrilege!

Apologize to the Berniebros and say three Hail Bernies and you might be forgiven!!!

[WorseBeforeBetter]

39. Is that why you're paid the big bucks? To parrot a Northwestern music major?

[stevenleser]

103. .

& Berniebro plonk

[ChisolmTrailDem]

7. Petty lie to stir shit and to tarnish a Democratic candidate who may have to face

the republidiot candidate in the general.

Shit-stirring flamebait that has no bearing on this campaign but does attempt to batter one of our candidates. What is your real motive here?

[beam me up scottie]

21. Agreed, everyone should ignore the flamebait.

We know they've been trying to "prod" us into hides, don't help them.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

25. Please read my post here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=721930

[beam me up scottie]

27. Good post.

I stick to posting facts about Hillary and why I don't support her.

I don't hate the woman, I just don't want to see her win the nomination.

[uponit7771]

64. This is false," I think it would be a good idea if President Obama faced some primary opposition"

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/07/22/277124/bernie-sanders-primary-obama/

[99Forever]

8. Smells like stinkbait in here.

[uponit7771]

68. Smells like Sanders is running from his palling around with number one Obama hater Cornell West

... and saying this

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/07/22/277124/bernie-sanders-primary-obama/

[bravenak]

12. Yes. From Primary Obama to Obama is Awesome. Smart Move.

[Fearless]

17. Again you're making this shit up

[bravenak]

28. Evidence:

https://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-talks-primary-challenge-obama-good-idea-our-democracy-and-democratic-part/

[Scootaloo]

45. And the money quote:

“Here’s the point: If you’re asking me, do I think, at the end of the day, that Barack Obama is going to be the Democratic candidate for president in 2012? I do. But do I believe that it is a good idea for our democracy and for the Democratic Party—I speak, by the way, as an independent—that people start asking the president some hard questions about why he said one thing during his previous campaign, and is doing another thing today on Social Security, on Medicare. I think it is important that that discussion take place.”

Asking questions. having discussions.

Pure madness, clearly.

[bravenak]

56. My key quote:

as an Independent

[Scootaloo]

66. Really, 'cause you just accused him of wanting to primary Obama.

That's your key quote for that?

[bravenak]

90. He wanted obama primaried.

[Scootaloo]

91. You got that from "I'm an independent," didja?

[bravenak]

92. From here:

https://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-talks-primary-challenge-obama-good-idea-our-democracy-and-democratic-part/

[Scootaloo]

95. Yeah, you shared it already. And I already responded to it.

See posts #28, #45, and #56 on this thread.

[uponit7771]

69. Ummmm, no... insufficient funds "be a good idea if President Obama faced some primary opposition."

[Scootaloo]

75. ...Is not contained anywhere in what Bravenak linked.

[uponit7771]

77. Here you go

I think it would be a good idea if President Obama faced some primary opposition.

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/07/22/277124/bernie-sanders-primary-obama/

and then having number one and one of he vilest Obama haters West on stage with him doesn't lean anyone who's been paying half attention to think Sanders would ever sincerely compliment Obama on anything.

Sanders has been campaigning against the "status quo" for the longest and everyone knows Obama is a part of that.. he's rarely if ever says lets build upon the good work Obama has done so far.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

123. Thank you for responding to that attack with grace.

With every passing day I become more proud to say you are my friend.

[bravenak]

125. Thank you, you are my Brother!!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

128. That is an honor for which I shall ever have your back.

eom

[bravenak]

130. Thank you. I have yours too.

I use better vocabulary in your honor. And Mr Scorpio said to....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

133. Mr. Scorpio, you, Number 23, lStrongBlackMan, betty ellen, Tar Heel Dem, Gen Xer.

It is an honor to be in such august company.

[bravenak]

134. I feel the same way. We are blessed.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

135. It's as if we all stand on the shoulders of giants.

eom

[bravenak]

136. We do! And will will raise Hillary upon our so she can bash that Glass Ceiling!!!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

137. We live in wonderful times...

Who would have thought we would see a black man succeeded by a white woman as POTUS?

[bravenak]

138. Only in the nightmares of the Oligarchy!!! The privileged denizens gnash their teeth!

[DURHAM D]

19. He has also referred to Republicans and Democrats as

Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Why was he even at the Iowa Tweedledum meetup?

[frylock]

192. To eat the Democrats food..

and then rudely leave without even saying thanks or goodbye.

[JI7]

35. it IS a smart move

i'm happy to see it

[betsuni]

13. Uh oh, the weather vane is on the other foot.

[Flying Squirrel]

24. *snort*

Good luck with that...

[aidbo]

37. Also, it should obviously be "the flip-flops are on other feet."

weather vanes don't even go on feet.

WTF weathervane, what are you doing on my feet? Get off my feet and go home weathervane, you're drunk.

[Agschmid]

44. I don't think I've really noticed you before tonight...

Welcome to DU, we are on opposite sides on this primary battle but your post made me chuckle.

See you around.

[aidbo]

48. We're all on each others' side.

[Agschmid]

49. That's fair.

Night.

[uponit7771]

70. Yeap, Sanders pals around with num 1 Obama hater west

[BlueCaliDem]

156. And because of that, Cornell West is persona non grata in the Black community.

For a savvy politician who's been in Congress for 24+ years; who needs the Black vote to win the Democratic nomination, this was the dumbest strategic move by Sanders by far - which only exacerbates his wrongheaded move to call for a primary challenger to President Obama that has really pissed off the Black community, and is why he's hit the ceiling at 25-30% in the polls.

[ucrdem]

14. Lest we forget:

Bernie Sanders: Obama sounds like Bush and Clinton on trade

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bernie-sanders-obama-sounds-like-bush-and-clinton-117717922196.html

Bernie Sanders' Brutal Letter On Obama's Trade Pact Foreshadows 2016 Democratic Clash

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/05/bernie-sanders-michael-froman-tpp_n_6419874.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013

Bernie Sanders To Obama Admin: Let Me See The Damn TPP Draft

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/01/06/1355859/-Bernie-Sanders-To-Obama-Admin-Let-Me-See-The-Damn-TPP-Draft

[sheshe2]

23. + a whole hell of a lot!

[ucrdem]

26. heya sheshe!

it's a whole new ball game but not much has changed here LOL

[sheshe2]

33. Hugs you~

Gotta sleep.

[ucrdem]

40. backatcha

we had a damn good week! :hugs:

[R B Garr]

29. Ha! great links again ucrdem!

Sounds like Bernie is being duplicitous i.e.- phony.

[Ed Suspicious]

52. Run with it! I think you're on to something!

:claps_excitedly:

[R B Garr]

67. Ooh, back to the Bernie coddling, PRONTO

What was I thinking.

[ucrdem]

173. hey thanks!

I tried to answer last night but DU went into overload mode and I couldn't get back on for awhile

[R B Garr]

181. Hi! DU does that to me, too.

Thanks for checking back and keep up the great posting.

[enid602]

41. Obama

Bernie has good reason to be upset with Obama. Because Obama decided not to robustly prosecute Wall Street and war criminals in favor of seeking a bipartisan (as much as was possible) plan to rebuild the economy, the Great Recession never became another Great Depression. Without Obama's nimble handling of the economy, the recession would have gotten worse. President Romney would then have followed the traditional Hoover/Reagon economic policies, and 2016 America would be ripe for Bernie's 'revolution.'

[uponit7771]

65. +1, many upthread have choosen to forget no doubt

[ucrdem]

174. Yep. They forget to remember what they posted 10 minutes ago.

Thus has it ever been I guess.

[jkbRN]

16. He always says "obamas a great

Friend, but we have disagreements on some issues..."

BTW, to compare campaigns is not a flip flop. If you really believe it is, please explain how this is a flip-flop?

[uponit7771]

71. Palling around with vile Obama hater West does not mean "we have disagreements"

[snot]

18. Evidence, quotes, etc.? Nope.

[jfern]

31. Facts? Who needs facts?

[uponit7771]

72. These (links inside)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=721890

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/07/22/277124/bernie-sanders-primary-obama/

I think it would be a good idea if President Obama faced some primary opposition.

[pacalo]

32. Every time I've seen him speak on tv, he is very complimentary of Obama.

You just finally listened today. Bernie likes Obama & he thinks he's a good man.

Perhaps you're talking about differences in opinion?

What's with all the pot shots coming from the Hillary side today? This shouldn't be happening here, given that several new sites have been created for Hillary's DU members.

[dreamnightwind]

38. Bernie is very polite to politicians he has disagreements with

It's how he has maintained a positive relationshiip with the Democratic Party all these years while advocating for better policies. Sad to see you trying to use that against him.

As far as I've ever heard, he actually likes and respects both Hillary and Obama, but his democratic socialist stances are at odds with many of their policies, such as the TPP.

If anything, Bernie errs by being too kind to the corporate wing of the party, but it's how he rolls, and there are advantages to him and to the party that he takes that approach. Please don't try to use it against him, it's an admirable quality and you'd like it a lot less if he attacked them as his enemies.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

50. No, you didn't. (n/t)

[aikoaiko]

53. If you really think that then you haven't been paying attention

[DrBulldog]

54. Wow. you just make stuff up . . . just like a Republican.

[SunSeeker]

113. Sanders bashed Obama and called for Obama to be primaried in 2012.

[stevenleser]

129. Links and video are posted multiple places under this OP and still Berniebros

Are trying to deny the reality of this.

[highprincipleswork]

55. Compliments

[JDPriestly]

58. Nonsense. Bernie always praises Obama on most issues and says very clearly that he disagrees with

Obama on others. That is as it should be.

Before criticizing a candidate, it is a good idea to listen to his or her speeches and be informed.

The OP misrepresents Bernie's stance on Obama.

Bernie has specifically addressed what he thinks of Obama and made it clear that he mostly likes Obama and agrees with Obama but differs on a few issues.

[SunSeeker]

116. Nonsense. Bernie called for Obama to be primaried in 2012.

I listened and I hear no "praise" in this harsh and inaccurate assessment of Obama:

[JDPriestly]

162. Bernie's statement was very good.

Obama appointed bankers and bankers' friends to the top economic jobs -- Wall Street types and soon after taking office rejected most of the left that had supported him. As a result, we got the chained CPI proposal for Social Security rather than raising the cap. We got a commission on balancing the budget on the backs of retirees instead of real cuts in the military spending waste.

The fact is that Obama's budget proposals have not been what the country needs. It's easy to second-guess, but had those proposals been more progressive, the country would probably be in better shape today, and Bernie might not even be running.

Obama's appointment of Rahm Emmanuel, of many others in his cabinet including to the Department of Education were signs of Obama's rightward leanings.

Obama has moved slightly but not much to accommodating ideas of progressives in the party these last years and has been, with John Kerry, very strong on foreign policy.

But when I look at the struggles that people are having economically and those struggles are in spite of the fantastic technological advances that we have made, then I am very pleased that Bernie is running. We need more sharing of the wealth than the Obama administration has advocated for. The very wealthy cannot have it all as Bernie reminds us.

It is not, however, a personal dislike for Obama. Bernie, I and most others think very highly of President Obama. He is as a man a great man and a great leader and has done so much for our country. It's the economic policy that has been insufficient at this time. Maybe this is hard to understand. But Obama's area of expertise is foreign policy, not economics. And it shows.

[SunSeeker]

183. Bernie's statement was not good. Calling for Obama to be primaried was destructive opposition.

Obama saved us from a second great depression. He gave the working poor healthcare.

Yet Bernie's statement disregarded all that and suggested Obama was not a progressive, so he should be primaried by a "progressive candidate." You may agree with that, but that is not supporting Obama.

[JDPriestly]

195. I don't think Obama considers himself to be a progressive.

I think he believes he is a moderate.

I'm a progressive. So is Bernie.

I like Obama, but I do not consider him to be progressive enough, not by any means.

He appointed conservatives on the economy to the top economic posts. They weren't as conservative as some Republicans, but they certainly were not progressive.

It is what it is.

Just because we disagree with Obama on certain issues does not mean we don't like him.

There is probably no one on earth with whom I agree on everything.

[SunSeeker]

196. I think Obama does consider himself a progressive.

And by any objective standard, he is.

Of course, what you and I think of Obama has nothing to do with the OP.

[uponit7771]

59. NO NO NO!!! Saint Bernard is teh PERFECT!! Makes everyone look like they hate good!!

/sarcasm

[beam me up scottie]

79. What are you on about?

You seem upset, maybe you should go for a walk or pet a kitten.

[uponit7771]

80. The overt flip flop of Sanders anti "status quo" campaign... I'm a dog person, kittens are

... petulant animals fury ears

[beam me up scottie]

81. Well dogs are better for some people.

Cats aren't for everyone.

[R B Garr]

84. What a condescending and unnecessary remark

Meant to just badger. Maybe you should go fly a kite. -- that's what your comment sounded like. Uponit has some excellent comments in this thread and they weren't personal like yours.

[beam me up scottie]

85. You think that post was excellent?

Honey dokey, different strokes and all that.

[R B Garr]

86. People are allowed to notice a candidates flip flops

U betcha.

[beam me up scottie]

87. Is that what that was?

Thanks for clearing that up.

[R B Garr]

88. Glad I could help.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

124. As a dispassionate observer I am compelled to award this round to you.

eom

[R B Garr]

168. Thank you, kind sir.

That personal attack was so uncalled for, it stood out. Now it's easy to see how that poster racked up over 7000 posts in 90 days.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

170. Quanity does/does not equal quality

[R B Garr]

182. Lol, you nailed it again. So true.

Now closer to 8000 posts in 90 days. Oh my.

[99Forever]

102. Speaking of flip-flops and Obama.

Which Obama would that be? Candidate Comfortable Shoes or President TPP? Candidate Public Option or President Private Insurers Only?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[DCBob]

108. So I guess Cornell is no longer a BernieBro.

??

[SunSeeker]

110. Sanders called for Obama to be primaried in 2012. Now he wraps himself around Obama.

Yeah, describing that as a flip flop is being kind.

[mmonk]

114. Of all the candidates running, he is the one that hasn't changed his message

for the longest period of time.

[BooScout]

120. Yes he does...

His entire campaign is based on the political expediency of running as a Democrat when for decades, being a Democrat would have compromised his principles. I smell hypocrisy.

[wyldwolf]

122. That time when Bernie pushed for a 2012 primary challenge to President Barack Obama

Some on this thread are calling it 'a lie.'

Sanders will not be a candidate. The Vermont independent, who caucuses with Senate Democrats, is running for re-election in 2012.
But Sanders, who has been sharply critical of Obama’s compromises with the Republican right on economic and fiscal policy, continues to talk up the idea of a primary challenge as a vehicle to pressure the president from the left. He is not alone. Ralph Nader is actively encouraging a primary race. And one-third of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents tell pollsters that they favor a primary challenge to the president, while just 59 percent oppose such a run.

http://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-talks-primary-challenge-obama-good-idea-our-democracy-and-democratic-part/

[Armstead]

126. "Getting primaried" is not the same as a primary debate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=722494

[wyldwolf]

127. It ain't the same as wonder bread either

Post #2: Maybe suggesting a 2012 primary challenge to him?
Post #3: He hasn't. It's a lie.

Bernie Sanders:  “I am sure there are serious and smart people out there who can do it,”

http://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-talks-primary-challenge-obama-good-idea-our-democracy-and-democratic-part/

[Armstead]

131. I donlt understand your numbering system but...

I don't deny Sanders said it. But the claim that he was saying Obama should be "primaried out" is a distortion.

I stand by my previous post.

[wyldwolf]

147. 1, 2, 3... not hard to understand.

the claim that he was saying Obama should be "primaried out" is a distortion.

Who said 'primaried out?' People have been saying 'primaried.' YOU added the 'out' to that.

The initial claim, repeated throughout, is Sanders said Obama should be primaried. Links have been posted and he has been quoted. NOW you're claiming people have said Sanders believed he should be 'primaried out' which I don't see on this thread.

[Armstead]

150. Your snark about my lack of comprehension is unnecessary

Just as an aside -- That what's gotten so poisonous about DU. We always have to put things in personally snarky terms, rather than simply expressing disagreements on their own terms. (and I said "we" because I'm not perfect either.)

The distinction about "primaries" is important. There is no question that Sanders believed i cold be healthy for there to be a debate on the D side during the primary to essentially structure the questions and disagreements, and do what Obama himself said his supporters should do by holding his feet to the fire.

But he was NOT calling for a popular movement to try to unseat President Obama. Tat is what "being primaried" implies. There is a huge difference.

And finally, Sanders was just expressing an opinion at the time. He also said supportive and positive things about Obama at the time. He simply expressed his opinions about specifics honestly. That's one reason many people like him, whether they always agree or disagree with him or not.

[wyldwolf]

191. Bernie said Obama needed to be primaried. Period. The disussion was NEVER about 'movements.'

[UglyGreed]

140. Well Obama is a not a Socialist

More like a Moderate Republican, (just like Hillary) his words not mine. BTW what Obama mentions at the end of the video he has failed to accomplish.

[workinclasszero]

141. Bernie flip flops are OK

with the Burnie Underground.

[UglyGreed]

148. And Hillary's

Flips flops are A-OK!!! Let us all enjoy another taste of Republican Light with a dash of Wall Street Caviar.

[workinclasszero]

149. And we can shoot up the town with our assault weapons of death too

fully protected by Burnie "from my cold dead hands" Sanders, friend of the big gun manufacturers.

[pinstikfartherin]

143. Your concern is noted.

I guess around here I'd be considered an Obama basher like so many paint Bernie because I Do not have an issue with suggesting primarying him if you aren't happy with what he is doing. I do not believe any of our politicians are above challenge and criticism. We have to make sure our voices are heard through whichever means is available, even if it means challenging the president. The idea that he is somehow above it all is ridiculous. I've seen plenty of criticism of President Obama here at DU yet so many act like they've always praised him highly. Please, we all know better.

Besides, I specifically heard Mrs. Clinton use the same approach last night that Bernie has been doing all along; we have to go further and build upon what President Obama has done. She can say it but Bernie can't? Oh wait, this is about Bernie saying he said "thanks but I've got this" when he was in office. Oh, the horror! Again, no policitician is above criticism. I've heard worse than that here on DU.

[azmom]

151. Hahahaha A Hillary supporter noticing

Flip flopping as an issue. That is rich.

[BlueCaliDem]

152. Contrary to what his supporters tell us, Sanders is just another politician - and, apparently, a

realist, now that he sees his poll numbers have hit a ceiling. He's no different than Hillary Clinton with the exception that he'll get nothing done for the country should he - although a long shot - win the primary and - here's a longer shot - win the G.E.

He knows that he needs the Obama Coalition in order to win, but he's come to this conclusion a lit-tle too late. He won't win their support and, therefore, won't win the nomination.

Hillary Clinton has worked hard and tirelessly for their vote, and savvy politician that she is, she's been praising President Obama from the get-go and the Obama Coalition love her for it. Also, she's never called for a primary challenger in 2012 like Sanders had.

[workinclasszero]

177. He knows that he needs the Obama Coalition in order to win..

...but he's come to this conclusion a lit-tle too late. He won't win their support and, therefore, won't win the nomination.

Bernie and his backers should have woken up months ago. Oh well thanks for playin Bernie.

[valerief]

164. Welcome to my Forever Ignored club. nt

[Evergreen Emerald]

166. I wonder why people are on a democratic board

and put democrats on ignore with whom they disagree? It only takes a search of DU to see how proud many were when BS distanced himself from Obama.

Facts are not attacks.

[MineralMan]

165. Any candidate who doesn't take advantage of Obama's

popularity among Democrats is an idiot. President Obama's support is going to be a crucial factor in the general election campaign. How enthusiastic that support is will matter a great deal.

[LoveIsNow]

167. He said what he always says:

Obama/Biden brought the economy back from the brink, but haven't gone far enough.

[MohRokTah]

169. He's a politician.

Not a very good one, but a politician nonetheless.

[Evergreen Emerald]

171. Exactly. You win the internets.

He is not an all-honest-truth-telling messiah. He is a politician.

[MohRokTah]

172. But not a very good one.

Good politicians don't spend the stump speeches yelling at people to get off his lawn. McCain made a similar mistake.

[workinclasszero]

178. Heresy! Blasphemy!

The Bernie Underground is not amused I'm sure.

[Comrade Grumpy]

186. Trash OP, trash thread, trash poster.

OP apparently cannot grasp nuance. Sanders is critical of Obama on some issues, supportive on others. Duh.

[Evergreen Emerald]

187. Trash poster?

Nice.

[Comrade Grumpy]

189. You're welcome. Thanks for clarifying how much attention I need to pay to you.

None.

[Evergreen Emerald]

190. Right back atcha grumpycat

[DemocratSinceBirth]

193. As a dispassionate observer I am compelled to award this round to you.

You had the grace to rise above the insults.

[Jim Lane]

194. They agree some things and disagree on others. That's not a flip-flop.

You should heed the wise words of a DUer who wrote:

It never has to be all-or-nothing, black-or-white. There is alot of gray in life.

[moobu2]

197. Yes he does

He's slick. His followers are blinded by all the populist BS so they can't see it.