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[WillyT]

This message was self-deleted by its author (WillyT) on Wed Feb 3, 2016, 12:38 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[JRLeft]

1. I'm black and I do not support her for other reasons. Her Wall Street ties.

She's a corporatists.

[tblue]

131. Same here

I'm strongly for Bernie. I could explain my concerns about Hillary but, really, who wants to read that?

Fwiw, I will be glad when the primaries are over. This Family Feud is too much. Nobody likes being told they're wrong to support who they support. NOBODY.

Respect.

[Todays_Illusion]

185. I say Willy T is typing what the propaganda says, and I am offended by this divisive title.

I am a retiree, not one of your labeled targets and I don't like Hillary because she is too corporate/banker friendly.

[Hortensis]

223. Respect - Your position has mine, Tblue.

It's always nice to identify another nice, balanced Bernie supporter. He deserves all you guys he can attract.

[redwitch]

516. Thank you.

I feel the same.

Respect.

[Todays_Illusion]

187. I suspect that if we polled senior citizens the support level would be similar but no one has

reported it so far. I say the propaganda has captured our author

[Kalidurga]

2. LGBT in the Twin Cities overwhelmingly support Bernie

it's like 10-1. Of course no one polls them. But, the gay people I know freely tell me this since they know I support Bernie.

[Metric System]

3. Queen Latifah? I don't think you have that right. Anyway...this reeks of condescension.

[JRLeft]

5. Yeah he shitted on Sistah Soulja.

[1StrongBlackMan]

11. Well ... They all look alike. It's hard to tell them apart. n/t

[JRLeft]

14. Don't we all look alike?

[1StrongBlackMan]

35. Well. Come on ...

It's understandable to confuse, her:

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M5a3635da2392128fb8f08172f87c6e82H2&w=150&h=206&c=7&rs=1&qlt=90&pid=3.1&rm=2

With, her:

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M6106cdff2df477187f7370d8baa45a41o2&w=85&h=105&c=7&rs=1&qlt=90&pid=3.1&rm=2

If the only time you've even thought about either, was while sitting in the smear circle.

[Fawke Em]

53. Dude, I'm a white woman and I know the difference.

Hell, I told my kids who Tupac and Snoop were.

Let's not think one's race is any better than one's gender.

We've both been shat upon, my black sisters the most.

Don't go there. It sucks.

[1StrongBlackMan]

70. What are you talking about? Perhaps, you might re-read the sub-thread. n/t

[Fawke Em]

106. You accused someone of thinking all black people look alike.

I can tell the difference between Pakistani's and Indians and I'm a white woman.

My point: us white folks aren't all racists. The OP admitted (s)he was wrong and changed the OP.

Chill.

[JI7]

120. pakistanis and indians are the same race

your example doesn't follow as the first case was about specific people. indian and pakistani are groups separation over religion although india has a huge number of muslims still.

[Fawke Em]

139. They still have different features.

Really.

It's that subtle.

[JI7]

142. not in terms of whether they are pakistani or indian

india/pakistan(and bangladesh) is just very diverse. (overall though it's all one people culturally similar to jews and hispanics)

there will be people in parts of pakistan that resemble people in india more than others within their own country.

there can be some differences between bengali and punjabi . there are indians who are more ethnically east asian .

many indians think i'm from the south though i'm from an area closer to pakistan .

[brush]

602. Think you missed the sarcasm.

[1StrongBlackMan]

160. Look at what you said ...

My point: us white folks aren't all racists.

versus

what I REALLY said.

[JustAnotherGen]

210. Did he accuse you of that?

No - he didn't.


When one uses a visible black woman to make one's point - one should be on point.

That would be like me screwing up Jennifer Lawrence and Meryl Streep who have both made waves in the past week for their statements on Feminism, Equal Pay, etc. etc.

It was an HONEST mistake from the poster and we black women -

Well we are used to being confused.

This is America. It's our reality.

You don't have to like it.

You can accept it.

It doesn't impact you.

But when we (1Strong, myself, any other black person) points out the obvious -


Please don't chastise us.


For someone (the OP) who chose to wag his finger and speak to us like imbeciles - he kind of had it coming . . . having his 'innocent who me' mistake called out.

Right?

[Number23]

228. If this pathetically hilarious subthread doesn't illustrate how DESPERATELY DU needs minorities

here then absolutely NOTHING WILL. ***NOTHING.***

In a thread where somebody is DEMANDING that black people "explain" their support for any damn issue or any damn body as if we owe him any damn thing, the fucking OP can't even be bothered to get the "focus" of their outrage right. But somehow... WE'RE the fucking problem here.

The Indian/Pakistani exchange will go down as easily one of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen here. Serious props to J17 for her patience.

[JustAnotherGen]

230. I didn't see where 1Strong did this to that poster

I didn't see it.

And we owe these people nothing.

This acting like the Democratic Partyis doing us a favor by allowing us to vote for ANY of their candidates has got to stop.

It's nonsense!

[Number23]

233. There would be no Dem party right now without the support of the groups that the OP is savaging

as being afflicted with Stockholm syndrome.

And there is little doubt that these folks know that, have known that for a while and it PISSES THEM OFF. Lots of people doing lots of wailing over the diminishing power of the straight white male. And it ain't all coming from Repubs.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

245. Mixing up Queen Latifah with Sister Souljah

SMH

[JI7]

273. i could accept it if they would at least listen

but they get defensive and insist on their very wrong point.

one can't look pakistan as opposed to indian because those have nothing to do with race/ethnicity etc. it was a British creation based on politics/religion and resulted in people from both sides moving to the other based on religion/politics and not ethnicity. at one point maybe less than 10 years ago the leader of india was born in what is today pakistan and the leader of pakistan in what is today india.

and what that has to do with mixing up 2 very different black women i don't know either.

[zappaman]

515. Amazing, ain't it?

[George II]

98. The fact is he STILL mixed them up..........

[blackspade]

150. Ouch.

But sadly true for a large number of people.

[1StrongBlackMan]

161. But, really, only those trying to make some down-low racial point. n/t

[blackspade]

235. Very true.

[AngryAmish]

364. Hehehe

well done

[Dem2]

31. condescension

That's the word I was trying to think of as I read the original post.

Thanks.

[1StrongBlackMan]

37. That's not the word I was thinking of; but, it'll do. n/t

[Chitown Kev]

109. I thought "racist bullshit"...but that's just me

[1StrongBlackMan]

162. Yeah ... a whole lot closer to what I was thinking; but, take care ...

on DU, calling something someone said, racist, is a far greater sin than what was actually said.

[brush]

193. Yep! It's racist bullshit.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. I believe you mean Sister Souljah

Why in the hell would you vote/support a candidate who supported her husband who went after Queen Latifa, and fucked the program formerly known as "Welfare".

I believe you mean Sister Souljah.


But I would be remiss in not extending my hand in friendship, giving you a big internet , and to say I am looking forward to working with you to elect Hillary Clinton as our 45th president once she secures the nomination.

[Joey Joe Joe]

8. Then you would be complicit on electing the person not suited for the job

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. I couldn't disagree with you more and I would literally...

I couldn't disagree with you more and I would literally rather not see another sunrise than to budge from my conviction.

That being said I wish to extend to you a hand of friendship, giving you the biggest of internet s, and to wish you success in all your future endeavors.

[Fawke Em]

59. While I don't agree with you, I am glad you got your

login issues worked out.

Glad to have you fully back.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. Thank you. That was frustrating.

What an odd message I was getting:

"Your account has had too many failed attempts at logging in. Please contact the DU Administrators."

[Fawke Em]

63. I saw that you had wondered if you were hacked.

Please, change all your passwords on any account you access. Especially your financial accounts.

I know I'm overly cautious, but usually you get those messages when someone has tried to "social engineer" you (not hack - the media calls it all a "hack," but it's not. Social engineering is when someone tries to guess you password based on who you are - like Sarah Palin's yahoo account. Dude guessed her password.).

I know we don't see eye to eye on candidates, but, damn, you're a human. I don't want you to have any other issues.

[NCTraveler]

153. Same thing happened to me Weds evening.

Was corrected mid-day Thursday.

[SidDithers]

80. ...

Sid

[sheshe2]

127. I see what you did there~ nt

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

351. Are you impuning my Mom's musical ear?

She says I'm a GREAT singer, and that's all I need to know. She would never lie just to make me happy.

Well, on second thought, she's done that before, but on such an important issue as singing ability? Nah....

[WillyT]

15. I Relied On Google... My Bad...

And don't get me wrong...

I Like HRC... I Just don't want her as our standard bearer, or President.

Her time has passed.

This is the time for fundamental change.

And that means Bernie...



BTW...

It does not mean a thing how I vote...

I live in NorCal... and ANY Dem will win here,

I make sure I vote down-ticket... but other states hold the keys.

[NCTraveler]

43. Nothing shows a distrust in...

Massive corporations like "I relied on Google."

[betsuni]

96. LOL

[treestar]

171. good one

The oligarchs are responsible for this!

[yardwork]

388. Ok, laughing out loud at work.... Can't stop.

This thread is comedy gold.

[tishaLA]

143. Did the same massive corporation tell you how to misspell

Latifah's name?

Because, you know, it's not "Becky"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

178. A lot of people misspelled Sister Soulja(h)'s name too...

[NCTraveler]

6. Questioning if POC or LGBTQ....

Are suffering from Stockholm if they support Hillary speaks volumes.

[jfern]

7. Also, remember in 1992

when Bill made sure to oversee the execution of a mentally retarded black guy, Ricky Ray Rector, and made sure to strongly criticize Sister Souljah?

[WillyT]

16. Great Point...

[1StrongBlackMan]

18. And remember back in 1758, when Ray Ray kicked that puppy? n/t

[shenmue]

83. Win

[Luminous Animal]

101. Really. I like you a lot but there are a lot of human beings who tried

to keep that man alive. Clinton was wrong wrong wrong. So many ways wrong. Clinton wasn't kicking a puppy. He killed a human being. A human being without the capacity from knowing right from wrong. A human being without the capacity from knowing right from wrong. A human being without the capacity from knowing right from wrong.

Clinton proved his mad chops for killing. Thank goodness he didn't kick a puppy. He just, you know, killed a human being.

[Art_from_Ark]

138. I agree with your sentiment

I couldn't believe Clinton would do such a thing. It was pretty callous.

[1StrongBlackMan]

159. This is all in the context of ...

Last edited Fri Oct 16, 2015, 09:45 AM - Edit history (1)

"Why do African-Americans should support HRC over Bernie" and citing the crap HRC's husband did 25 years ago.

That is a Bullsh!t argument ... just as fallacious as recalling that Ray Ray kicked that puppy in 1758.

[KingCharlemagne]

556. Clinton got a twofer: executing a cognitively disabled person proved he was 'tough on crime' AND

took everybody's mind off Jennifer Flowers. So he left a lifelong bad taste in my mouth by his action. Just like Hillary's vote to kill 1,000,000 innocent Iraqis - the wishes and feelings of us common people mean nothing to the likes of them.

[Punkingal]

558. I remember that well...

Ricky didn't even understand he was being executed...he put his dessert from dinner aside to eat later, as he did every night. I felt sooooo sad when I read that.

[treestar]

174. +1

Now we see how far back the grudge holding is supposed to go. 8 years was too soon for stevenleser to forgive, now we see it goes back 23 years or more.

Oh wait, I forget. We are supposed to be still mad at Hillary for being a teen Goldwater Girl. Nah, it goes back to Hillary's birth.

[1StrongBlackMan]

202. And speaking of digging up the past ...

Remember all the "OMG, why are you going back and digging that up" over a certain absent writer, infamous for that "POS Used Car salesman" statement? The same people going back to BILL CLINTON'S record were aghast that someone would quote the "POS Used Car salesman" former-poster, and rec'd the 8 year old "Steve said HRC was a liar" post.

No hypocrisy there.

[reddread]

284. I sure do

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=669234

[Major Hogwash]

580. Yes, that is part of the problem of her having so much baggage to carry with her while campaigning.

We don't forget.

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. I'm not a HRC supporter; but, I'll give the question(s) a shot ...

Because she is not her 25 year ago husband.

[bigtree]

10. maybe they appreciate the actual legislative support Hillary has actually provided

...I notice you're relying on criticizing choices her husband made in office.

I don't regard Sanders as an especially overt supporter of the black community. I do, however recall Hillary's support of the black community in her state of New York and her husband's support of the black community in Arkansas.

Nothing comparable in Vermont.

[JRLeft]

12. Actually Bernie was arrested during a civil rights protest in the 60's.

[bigtree]

20. that's fine for the 60's

...but good luck translating that history into support from the community today.

I'd think that support for the civil rights era protests would be a prerequisite for anyone asking for support from the black community. It would be more remarkable if he hadn't made the effort.

[JRLeft]

23. The point is he's always supported black people.

[bigtree]

34. my point is to the post

...which implies that the black community should reject Hillary over bernie.

Again, maybe they appreciate the legislative support she's actually offered in her public positions over Bernie's scant experience representing black communities of voters.

[1StrongBlackMan]

42. More ...

implies that the black community should reject Hillary over Bernie ... because of stuff her husband did, while as you note, ignoring what she has done

It doesn't much shittier than that..

[sheshe2]

121. More. In another post...

They said we are electing a family. As far as I know, we are possibly electing one woman and she sure as hell is not her husbands keeper and he is not hers.

It is a fact that women can actually stand on their own two feet. I know this will surprise some people,here it is, we actually have a functioning brain. We can walk, talk and chew gum at the same time.

We can crouch in a field and literally push a refrigerator out our vaginas to give you birth.

As some one said, the OP hit the trifecta here, racism, sexism and homophobia.

Sigh~ Good to see you 1SBM. I have missed you.

[JaneyVee]

40. How about his support for the 1994 crime bill, and guns?

Was that "supporting black people" too?

[beam me up scottie]

74. He voted for the crime bill because of the Violence Against Women Act and ban on assault weapons:

In 1994, however, Sanders voted in favor of the final version of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, a bill that expanded the federal death penalty. Sanders had voted for an amendment to the bill that would have replaced all federal death sentences with life in prison. Even though the amendment failed, Sanders still voted for the larger crime bill.

A spokesman for Sanders said he voted for the bill "because it included the Violence Against Women Act and the ban on certain assault weapons."

Sanders reiterated his opposition to capital punishment in 2015. "I just don’t think the state itself, whether it’s the state government or federal government, should be in the business of killing people," he said on a radio show.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/02/viral-image/where-do-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-stand-/

[ohheckyeah]

119. Unless they were

veterans waiting on treatment at the VA hospital - then not so much.

[okasha]

103. So were thousands of others.

Many were beaten. Some were killed.

Getting arrested was a calculated risk.

[uponit7771]

241. ... and that entitles him to what?! tia

[1StrongBlackMan]

24. Dammit ...

I don't regard Sanders as an especially overt supporter of the black community.

He marched with Martin Luther King and was down with SNCC (until he grew "frustrated with them" (his words) because they wanted to focus on racial issues).

What more do you want!!!!!

[bigtree]

38. he said 'black lives matter'

...after he said voters shouldn't base their vote on the 'color of their skin.'

What don't I understand?

[1StrongBlackMan]

48. But only after someone getting in his face about it ...

and before sending thank you notes that fails to mention it.

[cui bono]

134. What's wrong with that?

Shouldn't people vote based on the policy stances of the candidate?

I'm not voting based on the gender of the candidate even though I think it's about time for a woman to be president. I don't want Hillary to be my president though.

If I were AA I certainly wouldn't want Ben Carson to be president.

[bigtree]

199. so you're prepared to tell me I shouldn't take my skin color into consideration when I vote?

...not on any related issue I may hold as important and primary to my vote?

Sanders didn't say a thing about the 'gender of the candidate.' He said (on NPR) people shouldn't take the color of THEIR skin into consideration when they vote. It was an ignorant statement which was never clarified or reversed.

[cui bono]

248. Well, would you vote for Ben Carson if you are AA? Clarence Thomas?

I mentioned gender as an example of me not sticking to that, I was not saying Sanders brought it up.

[bigtree]

255. can you read?

...Sanders said NOTHING about voting for black candidates.

[uponit7771]

242. Sanders was white splaining, yes PoC should take the color of THEIR skin into consideration when

... they vote because society defines us by it

[cui bono]

249. As I asked the other poster, would you vote for Ben Carson or Clarence Thomas?

Taking it into consideration is one thing, voting based on it is another. I think there's a difference there and I'm sure Sanders meant the latter since he's well aware of the issues PoC face every day, though I haven't heard the quote in context.

One of the things that made me so happy to vote for Obama and shed a tear when he won was that he was AA, so I get it maybe to 1/1,000,000 of a degree that you do since I'm not a PoC, but I wouldn't have felt that way if it were Ben Carson of course.

And as I mentioned, I wouldn't vote for someone just because they are a woman. If Elizabeth Warren ran I would vote for her in a second and perhaps over Sanders, but I would have to really look at that. I wouldn't do it automatically just because she is a woman.

[uponit7771]

260. No, their policies and stances are removed from ... MY... skin. Sanders said ...

... that I shouldn't consider the color of... MY....skin not the color of the candidates skin and I disagree with him on that.

I have to consider whether or not, for instance, someones stance on guns affects my community where most of my family lives... because guns disproportionately negatively affects blacks in so many ways.

[cui bono]

265. Okay, if you look at it that way I totally agree.

Is there a video of him saying it? I'm curious now to hear it in context.

Of course PoC have to take their own skin color into consideration - how can you not - when voting. It's the basis of your life experience in this country in particular because of all the systemic racism.

[JTFrog]

443. I think it is in reference to this interview:

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2014/11/19/365024592/sen-bernie-sanders-on-how-democrats-lost-white-voters

On African-American support for Democrats

Well, here's what you got. What you got is an African-American president, and the African-American community is very, very proud that this country has overcome racism and voted for him for president. And that's kind of natural. You've got a situation where the Republican Party has been strongly anti-immigration, and you've got a Hispanic community which is looking to the Democrats for help.

But that's not important. You should not be basing your politics based on your color. What you should be basing your politics on is, how is your family doing? ... In the last election, in state after state, you had an abysmally low vote for the Democrats among white, working-class people. And I think the reason for that is that the Democrats have not made it clear that they are prepared to stand with the working-class people of this country, take on the big money interests. I think the key issue that we have to focus on, and I know people are uncomfortable about talking about it, is the role of the billionaire class in American society.

[cui bono]

133. Bernie marched and fought and got arrested for civil rights decades ago

and has fought for equal rights for all for the entirety of his career. How much more overt can you get?

Can people please stop participating in the continuous attempts to frame him as weak on civil rights/social justice/whatever you want to call it. It's just not true. There's a decades long record to show it.

Hillary was worse to BLM than Bernie. Hillary said in the debate she "represented Wall Street" as a senator from NY. No one who is fighting for Wall Street has the best interest of the black community at heart. It's not possible to represent Wall Street and be fighting for the people. She is supposed to represent the people, not banks.

[bigtree]

220. you can't support this baiting thread and then play dumb when defenses and responses are offered

Hillary has vast more experience and record of actual legislative responses to issues which affect to the black community. Also, she has more experience dealing with black constituents and their concerns in her state of New York and as first lady in Arkansas, than Sanders in Vermont.

[cui bono]

250. I'm not playing dumb. I'm sick of people trying to frame Bernie as weak on civil rights issues when

we all know he isn't. Insinuating that he is weak on that is "playing dumb" at best. Where was the outrage on DU of Hillary's treatment of BLM? I didn't see any. That tells me that people are politicizing this to try to make Sanders look bad. She also "represented Wall Street" (her words in the debate) while a senator of NY, so I'm not impressed with that. When she stops worrying about Wall Street and really does fight for the people I might take that point.

And I am simply responding to some posts in this thread, how am I supporting it? I didn't rec it. I'm just trying to discuss something.

[bigtree]

253. try responding to something I've actually said.

[cui bono]

264. I did.

[hrmjustin]

13. Can you clue me into why you can't help yourself with these attacks on Hillary?

[WillyT]

19. Easy Peasy... Don't Want Her As Commander-In-Chief...

Any other questions ???

[1StrongBlackMan]

26. Fine ... But why use Black folks and the LGBT community to spin your dislike. n/t

[JaneyVee]

39. Because division is kinda their thing.

Everybody under the bus. Bernie will drive.

[1StrongBlackMan]

67. No No No ... only Black people are allowed to be divisive. n/t

[beam me up scottie]

79. Didn't you once claim that 50% of Stormfront members supported Bernie?

http://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=486255

Because division is kinda their thing.

Glass houses/stones, figure it out.

[PatrickforO]

90. Hmm. There are a lot of people on here getting thrown

under the bus.

As to Bernie driving, well consider how he did NOT throw Clinton under the bus when Cooper was bringing up her emails. Bernie said, 'enough with the damned emails, already! Let's talk about the issues,' and then proceeded to.

So he's not driving the bus that people are getting thrown under.

[tishaLA]

145. I thought there was a resolute disavowal of "identity politics"

as the very ethos of the campaign. I can never seem to get the logic straight here.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

182. Identity politics always struck me for code that the folks who are being identified...

Identity politics always struck me for code that the folks who are being identified just need to be quiet.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

512. It depends on who being identified and who is doing the identifying.

EOM

[Cha]

172. Jury Results, Janey~

Because division is kinda their thing.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=687488

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Hateful, divisive group attack.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:08 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I think some of the language throughout the many posts are divisive. There seems to be much emotion being expressed, some of it very negative. This post is not out of the ordinary of what little else I have read. Emotions seem to run high on this issue and many other issues around this primary season. I confess to being frustrated overall, but this post did not stand out to me, so I, personally, would leave it alone.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Yawn.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This alert seems a bit personal to me.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: C'mon, this goes too far. Everyone I know is gonna vote for the Democrat in 2016 no matter who it is.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No, it happens to be a fact. Not "hateful" at all. Oh, the irony of a Bernie supporter complaining about "divisive". Really?

[sheshe2]

365. Lol~

This is what they hide?

Yikes!

[brush]

196. They've certainly done a good job of dividing DU

Trying to remember if even the Pumas back in '08 were as divisive.

[Andy823]

269. Not even close

I don't know what to call these "dividers" but I don't think they are really trying to get any democrat elected, not with crap like this being posted. The Pumas were bad, but this group is making them look reasonable if you ask me.

[brush]

271. Yep! Agreed.

[Marrah_G]

406. The majority of Bernie supporters are not like that

I like both Bernie and Hillary. I think Bernie would better represent my views and so I will be voting for him. That in no way equates to disliking Hillary.

[Behind the Aegis]

107. Agreed! It is getting very old! n/t

[yardwork]

390. Why not. Many others on DU do so, often.

[1StrongBlackMan]

394. I can only address the posts I see and one at a time.

If/when I see others doing so ... I will ask them the same question.

[we can do it]

416. It gets old, doesn't it?

[1StrongBlackMan]

418. Yes. It does ...

The only thing more tiresome is the: "What me?" response they always give when called on it ... right before they accuse me of being a racist and divisive, when I call them on it.

[hrmjustin]

27. Well i do and I proudly marched with her in the pride parade and I am thrilled

she is for marriage equality.

[Goblinmonger]

71. "thrilled she is FINALLY for marriage equality"

fixed it for you.

[hrmjustin]

73. I have spoken on this and I as a gay man trust her.

[NCTraveler]

154. The op directly questioned...

If you are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. They don't get how offensive insinuating that is.

[hrmjustin]

180. Yep. Kind of outed himself.

[kath]

211. Yeah, it sure as hell took her long enough.

She had to make absolutely SURE which way the wind was blowing, with that finger ever in the air.

[yardwork]

391. Neither Hillary nor Bernie will roll back gay rights.

It's not like either of them would suddenly stop supporting gay rights now, so this whole line of questioning is silly.

Meanwhile, the Republican front runners are not exactly pro-gay.

[Goblinmonger]

395. It's not like I'm considering voting for a Republican.

But I damn near spit my beer out when Hillary said she has always been a progressive. At the points that she did not support gay marriage, most progressives were on board for quite some time.

[wyldwolf]

17. Hey! You're on the second stage of grief! 'Denial' is 1, and you're on 'Anger.'

[WillyT]

22. Curious... Everybody Ignores The Original Question. - Try Giving It A Shot... If You Can...

[1StrongBlackMan]

29. See Post #9. n/t

[WillyT]

44. True... But Tha Was My Question... Evolution, Political Expediency, Weathervane...

[okasha]

105. Concern trolling.

You're not very good at it.

[betsuni]

114. It's pathetic. I wish it would stop. nt

[okasha]

118. And witless into the bargain.

[betsuni]

122. Constant alarums and excursions, you'd think one would tire of it eventually.

Some people need a lot of attention.

[okasha]

126. Really.

Running around with their hair, and frequently their pants, on fire.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. You should quote Aeschylus to our friend

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.

Aeschylus

[Cali_Democrat]

488. Yep!

[nc4bo]

21. They're all bloody politicians even the Hope and Change one.

Same old shit going on just a different day.

I bought Hope and Change and actually thought black folks would get some relief from one of our own but guess what?

Nope.

So.....at least Sanders was walking the walk for whatever reasons why he felt it was the right thing to do.

Maybe there's room for a little more Hope and some actual Change.

I know you weren't talking to a Sanders supporter but I am black and I felt the need to put my 2 cents in the pot.

[Bluenorthwest]

28. Stuff: Most people on welfare are not black, most black people are not on welfare.

DADT was an improvement upon the previous shit, a compromised step forward after years of nothing but persecution. The leading issue of the day was not marriage rights but the fight against AIDS which had been criminally neglected by his Republican predecessors who stood by while tens of thousands died and did absolutely nothing. You, dear OP, have often defended those who voted for those genocidal policies enforced by cackling right wing bigots. I can link to your screed 'so now Reagan voters were anti gay?!?!?!' which you posted when you wanted us all to vote for Reagan supporting enemies of minority communities you feel are now 'reformed'. Cross party straight folks need to cut out the fucking lectures.

Most LGBT I know support Bernie, but this is exactly the sort of shit that can make that turn on a dime. Don't make the room uncomfortable for minority persons, WillyT. You have a habit of that and it needs to cease. Do you want links to your various bullshit lectures? Cut it the fuck out you straight white creator of division.

You live in the Bay Area, go ask LGBT and African Americans these questions live in the way you do it here, see how it flies. I dare you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. I have seen you address him several times and he never responds.

eom

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. I have seen you address him several times and he never responds.

eom

[Bluenorthwest]

72. That's because I remember his posts and I'm onto his game and it's not about Bernie at all

He has done this exact same sort of post as a 'Warren Supporter'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026231263

He is the poster who started the whole 'Civil Rights Don't Matter' trope:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026669120


Here is a nearly identical version of that thread posted at a different time;
Can We Have An Open Honest Discussion About Progressives, Civil Rights, And Income Inequality ???
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026430750

[DemocratSinceBirth]

76. The end result of a lot of his threads is he believes some folks have more agency than others.

eom

[zappaman]

82. Thank you for the links.

It's obvious, isn't it?

[uponit7771]

243. +1

[JaneyVee]

30. Bill isn't running.

[JI7]

33. you support Elizabeth warren and her past is much worse

[JaneyVee]

36. Here's an idea: Lets hear from an African American!

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/10/hillary_clinton_would_make_a_better_president_than_bernie_sanders_the_democratic.html

I know, you and Manny are always thinking so monolithic!

[JI7]

41. ask Queen Latifah herself. she seems just fine with Clinton

[bigtree]

47. oops!

[GusBob]

49. LOL OMG

This is too funny

And sad at the same time

[Bluenorthwest]

57. Bill Clinton on the Not Sister Souljah Show:

[uponit7771]

237. +1

[JI7]

45. why do most Straight White Men vote RepublIcan ?

[AgingAmerican]

444. Straight white male Democrats don't vote Republican, sorry

We aren't into right wing, sorry. If we were into right wing we would back your candidate.

[beam me up scottie]

46. WillyT this isn't helping anyone, please delete.

Trying to pit minorities against each other - not cool.

As Bernie supporters I hope we're better than this.

[Capt. Obvious]

51. Thanks for this

[beam me up scottie]

52. No problem, this isn't what Bernie would want us to do.

Let's stick to the issues.

[Chitown Kev]

113. Thank you, bmus

[beam me up scottie]

116. You're more than welcome, Chitown Kev.

I wish he would have listened.

[tammywammy]

192. +1 n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

128. You already know this, but it bears repeating...

Thank you!

[beam me up scottie]

132. Aw...

I feel the same way about you, my friend.

[zappaman]

137. "As Bernie supporters I hope we're better than this."

Judging by the fact this OP is still up...I guess not.

[beam me up scottie]

141. And you're here to do what? Insult those of us who are better?

Congratulations, way to prove you're no better than the op - some of you are just here to stir the shit.

[zappaman]

200. Lol!

Fabulous OP, eh?

[mcar]

176. Nicely said, beam

This OP is the worst of DU.

[beam me up scottie]

343. Thanks, mcar.

[geardaddy]

203. +1

[Cali_Democrat]

226. This OP is really opening up some eyes. nt

[uponit7771]

244. I've come to expect this

[msanthrope]

280. You are utterly incorrect....this is helping someone.

Once you realize who this is helping, perhaps you and others like you can collectively take out the trash.

[yardwork]

459. So true.

Never seen so many freepers running around with their togas showing.

[msanthrope]

460. You have it....nt

[lovemydog]

341. Thank you

beam me up scottie.

[beam me up scottie]

342. You're welcome, lovemydog.

Thanks for not taking a pot shot at me like some others did.

No good deed goes unpunished and all that...

[lovemydog]

345. LOL, no worries.

I rarely keep track of who is hating on who.

Did you see the new Star Wars trailer. I assume you're a science fiction fan. I watched it during halftime of Monday night football. Looked like it could be pretty good.

[beam me up scottie]

346. Just got done watching the game, thank dog for dvrs.

I never thought I'd go see another Star Wars film but I have high hopes for this one.

I know what I want for my birthday!

[NonMetro]

54. My Only Concern With HRC Now Is If She Can Win In 2016

That's "iffy", IMO, and if she doesn't - well, I don't even want to think about that!

[WillyT]

62. Most Honest Response...

[Cali_Democrat]

58. Maybe this is why

Bernie's letter to DU makes no mention of bigotry against blacks and LGBT people.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118729194

Bernie seems to have a singular focus on anti-corporate economic populism.

[Aerows]

61. <---Lesbian here

I have absolutely no way to speak for other lesbians and say what they think because we are not a homogeneous community. (Sounded funny, didn't it?)

I answer for Aerows, have always answered for Aerows and will continue to answer for Aerows.

I will answer for Aerows until I am put in the grave, but I refuse to answer for crimes committed that I had no part in. That is a subtle, passive aggressive form of bullying.

When you (general statement not you specifically) ascribe the transgressions of someone that didn't commit them to a person simply because they disagree with you, you are engaging in gutter politics.

Take that as you will.

[JoePhilly]

64. WillyT demands minority groups give him answers ... now!!!!

Justify yourselves!!!!

[Cali_Democrat]

77. I wonder if the OP will even realize that the welfare reference is offensive.

As if blacks vote based on welfare benefits.

Standard right wing thinking.

[JoePhilly]

164. I doubt the OP has the necessary ...

... skills for introspection and self reflection to notice.

Could be due to the thin air he has to breathe sitting up there on high looking down.

[zappaman]

65. Congrats!

A new low!

[Chitown Kev]

66. Who the fuck is "you"?

I don't support Hillary Clinton for a host of reasons and I'm black & LGBT.

And if you think that the only thing that black most voters are concerned about is "welfare" and Sister Soulja then...let me shut up...

And besides, Bernie voted for the crime bill too, so he has NOT "ALWAYS had your back."

[uponit7771]

246. +1

[ibegurpard]

68. I'm not supporting her

I don't presume to speak for other LGBT people and I resent people that presume to speak for me. I also don't appreciate being considered a monolithic hive-mind...

[WillyT]

75. Was Not Doing That... I Think/Hope... But I Was Wonder How The Hillary Hive Thrives...

It blows me away.

[moobu2]

69. Bernie Sanders cant get elected so who cares what he supported 50 years ago?

[Aerows]

92. A black man couldn't be elected as President in 2008

Until he was elected. Hillary had it all tied up with a neat little bow. Until she didn't.

Ever heard that phrase about history and being doomed to repeat it? Well have at it!

[KingCharlemagne]

557. oh, just a member of CORE and SNCC (while HRC supported that

paragon of racial equality Goldwater). Who cares?

Bet you're a member of the 'look forward, not backward' brigade.

[Anansi1171]

78. It's a "Black Thing", WillyT. You wouldn't understand.

Feel better?

[WillyT]

81. No... Explain That...

Why would the AA Community be supporting a family that screwed them ???

[Anansi1171]

86. Au Contraire, Mon Ami.

Many AAs fondly remember a very healthy expansion of the black middle class during the Clinton years, and MANY AAs trust HRC in that respect.

Whatever her shortcomings, BS isnt even close to winning my support. When it comes to the cares of AAs right now,I'd go so far as to say Sanders is unauthentic and equivocal in his approach to racial disparities.

How's that?

[ancianita]

87. I'd have to say her record beats his in that very important historical context.

[WillyT]

89. And I Remember Going To Protests Against The Welfare Refom Thing...

My first protest as a college student was supporting Harvey Milk...

It was a much more radical time apparently... so sad we wussed out.

[JI7]

99. you keep bringing up welfare and ignore that black people improved Financially during the Clinton

Years.

and Welfare itself is not a program based on race. it's a program that is open to all people . it's not a black issue.

[Bluenorthwest]

286. I'm inserting this for other readers since you don't egange. Those of you straight folks who

vanished into the mists after a few gestures of support around the Briggs amendment 'wussed out'. The LGBT movement doubled down, got far more radicalized and engaged in the most aggressive activism this country had seen since the 60's. And you, WillyT, in the Bay Area, could have been a supporter and participant is some of the most moving and important actions in the political history of California and the United States. But apparently you did not even notice what was going on around you:

1990:
“We were fraught, frustrated, enraged, and with very little hope. But we were also determined, and with all of us together there was a feeling of strength and even festivity.”

Journalist Tim Kingston is telling me over the phone what it felt like to be in San Francisco from June 20-24 in 1990, when the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power (ACT UP) staged historic protests during the Sixth International Conference on AIDS.
http://www.48hills.org/2015/06/16/the-week-act-up-shut-sf-down/

The link will show you what you missed by 'wussing out' as you did. This is your own home town! Look at the photos of your courageous neighbors, read the stories of men and women in the streets and in the halls of power standing up and acting up!!!!

[JRLeft]

100. His pro Wall Street policies was the downfall too.

[TM99]

148. Then you were living in a bubble.

Poverty and incarceration grew in our communities during the Clinton years.

That you believe that Sanders is the unauthentic one when he has been consistent and congruent over decades and Clinton who changes just about every decade she has been in the public arena tells me you do not see reality as it is.

[840high]

88. You're not the only one

asking this. If you ever get a clear answer, let us know.

[Aerows]

95. Why would LGBT folks support a candidate

that said:

[tblue37]

147. Those who believe *that* show themselves pathetically ignorant of history.

Marriage was largely polygynous through much of human history--including biblical times. It has been polyandrous in a few places, too. Even today polygyny is entirely acceptable in many places (e.g., America's buddy country Saudi Arabia). But one man/one woman marriages have been the norm only for a relatively short time, and even at that, not universally.

Saying that was either being ignorant or--more likely--a result of political calculation. I believe that Obama rejected marriage equality until he "evolved" solely because of political expediency. I don't know about the Clintons, but I suspect political expediency there, too. They knew, as did Obama, that the country as a whole wasn't there yet. Maybe they could have shown more leadership on the issue, but maybe doing so would have allowed a true antigay bigot to get into a position of power, which would have been even worse. It's hard to say.

[brush]

198. Not at all sure about that

Back in the '90s everybody was working — including black folks.

Even in the Obama admin black employment hasn't been nearly as robust.

And don't even mention Cheney/Bush

Really disappointed in how so many Sanders supporters are costing him possible votes with bullshit, racist posts.

And Hillary is not Bill Clinton from the '92 campaign. Give it a rest with this crappola.

[Cali_Democrat]

530. What's your opinion? nt

[ancianita]

84. I love Bernie. But remember. Bernie wasn't president in that historical context. AND there's so much

that she's really done on her own to always have had the back of half the population.

In the primary I am for Bernie, but for those who hold up half the sky, she has the better record.

Any time you care to ask...

[WIProgressive88]

85. I am a huge Bernie supporter, but I don't think that this post is fair...

Other than a couple minor quips with some of his past votes on gun control, I think that Bernie is the best candidate on pretty much all of the issues. But there are clearly members of minority communities who face everyday non-economic based oppression who do not feel that he is speaking enough to their concerns. I do believe that Bernie will be a great president in terms of social and racial justice, but as a straight white dude, it is not my place to tell our African American and LGBTQ brothers and sisters which candidate will best address the issues affecting their communities. They have the life experiences and knowledge to make that judgment; I do not.

No candidate is entitled to anyone's vote. If you read the African American group on this board, there are several posters who are undecided, but I guarantee posts like this push those voters further and further away from Bernie. And I don't blame them. If someone attributed my voting preferences to Stockholm Syndrome rather than a rational thought process based on my life experiences, I would be less inclined to support his or her candidate as well. We should be reaching out to people, listening to their concerns, and respectfully make the case for why we feel Bernie should be the next President of the United States; we should not be chastising people because of which candidate they choose or choose not to support.

[tblue37]

149. Oh, and as for black voters, the Clinton administration included a number of

extraordinarily talented black people (not to mention other minorities, including hispanics--Cisneros, Mineta, Richardson, Pena, Alvarez--and even Lebanese--i.e., Donna Shala) in highly visible positions, like Marian Wright Edelman, Ron Brown, Jesse Brown, Togo D. West, etc.

He also included a lot more women, both white and minority, in important positions--Edelman, Shalala, Ruth Bader Ginsberg, and the first female SoS, Attorney General, etc.

Clinton made a real effort to open up high government office to women and minorities, thus "normalizing" the idea by making it so common. I think those efforts really made a difference for minorities and women in terms of opening up opportunities for such positions even beyond his time in office.

I am a Bernie supporter, but I will gladly support HRC if she is nominated. I do dislike her corporate/bankster ties, her involvement with the Family, and her hawkishness, but I rather suspect she figures those things are necessary to position herself so she can get into office in order to promote the more beneficial policies she has been promoting for decades.

I fear that she underestimates how constrained she will be as a result of such compromises and deal-making. You can't lie down with dogs without rising up with fleas. But I think (HOPE) that her intention is to use the office for good, not Ill, and despite her politically expedient actions and votes for policies that I recoil from, her career on the whole has done a lot to promote issues that benefit women and children both in the US and around the world.

Furthermore, like Obama Unchained, the badass president who doesn't have to worry about getting elected any more, a President Hillary would be at the end of her political career, so she wouldn't need to worry about protecting her own future political options, so she might well do a lot of good.

[Bobbie Jo]

91. What an utterly tone deaf post.

Last edited Fri Oct 16, 2015, 07:19 AM - Edit history (1)

with 15 recs, at that. (make that 23, no surprises there)

What is your deal?

Keep it up...

[stevil]

93. Feel better?

What a nasty post. You don't deserve an answer.

[JI7]

94. you are one of the Popes Biggest Fans on this Site, even using him to attack Obama and other

democrats.

if you are really concerned with gay rights how doyou explain your support for the pope while attacking those who are much more supportive of gay rights ?

[Behind the Aegis]

108. You are one of my favorite people!

It is one thing to advocate to minorities in favor of your candidate, it is quite another to chastise those minorities because they don't support your candidate.

[JI7]

111. thanks

i actually learned a lot from reading your posts on these issues.

the question of why certain people support certain candidates would be good and informative in itself. but i question the OP's intentions because of things like the support for the Pope. plus the OP has ignored all the answers many have given . not just in this thread but many others.

and as you say it's just chatising the groups rather than wanting to actually listen.

[Codeine]

97. Never a road to low for you to take, is there Willy? nt

[George II]

102. You hit the trifecta - this is racist, sexist, and homophobic. Congratulations Willy!

[Aerows]

110. Ahem.

Can you cease and desist from explaining to the LGBTQ community what we should feel (according to George II) instead of what we do feel?

I'm sure you are an expert on being a lesbian in your own mind, but since I am sitting here living it, it's not nearly as glamorous as movies of a certain type make it out to be.

My agenda is paying the car insurance, getting to work, looking after elderly parents, and every now and then, I dedicate some time to DU as a volunteer.

Because I love this site.

I love discussing politics with other human beings.

I think some folks forget that there are *human beings* sitting behind the keyboard.

[George II]

124. Excuse me?

"Can you cease and desist from explaining to the LGBTQ community what we should feel (according to George II) instead of what we do feel?"

When did I do that? I never "explained" what the LGBTQ community should feel. What makes you think that?

[NCTraveler]

270. Not a single word of their post told anyone how they should feel. Nt

[George II]

356. Precisely - and not a single word to either try to explain where that came from.

[JoePhilly]

166. +1

[Cali_Democrat]

339. Indeed. nt

[joshcryer]

104. You're not helping.

[Lisa D]

112. And people actually recced this vile post.

[Aerows]

117. WillyT laid it out

If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, will you assert that it is a cow?

The Faux outrage against folks that don't support Hillary is absurd.

Where are you? It's right there in the name: Democratic

Why are some so terrified of Democracy?

[truedelphi]

652. A lot of people think that Democracy is the ability to own the latest iPhone.

Regardless of the fact that the new technology of cell phones and mini pads etc all exist through slave labor and the use of expanding the dumping in our oceans.

The Suburbanites I know that are for Hillary really have operated along the same lines of economics that she and Bill do.

First they inherited their parents' businesses in the late 1980's. Then they slashed the workers' hourly wages back in the 1990's. The Grand Finale was when they let their companies go belly up in the mid to late 1990's.

And that way they got a lot of money through Golden Parachuting out of the day to day running of their parents' business.

Who cares if the workers' pensions were destroyed by all that?

Rather similar to how Bill Clinton signed off on the Banking Modernization Act which destroyed Glass Steagal. And eventually destroyed the middle class. But hey, it worked out for the Clintons!! They both do very very well in front of Corporate Podiums, commanding over $ 375,000 per speech.

[Number23]

229. Yeah, but look at WHO'S doing the rec'ing.

Not one surprise there. Not a single one.

[cwydro]

115. I'm a gay woman who voted for Obama twice despite his views on gay marriage.

I don't even know where to begin on how much is wrong with your OP. So I'll just ask - Do you understand how ridiculous it is that you don't know the difference between Queen Latifah and Sister Soulja?

I'm still on the fence as far as which Dem I'm going to support, but these type posts do nothing to sway people to your candidate. I think Sanders would take a dim view of this type of tactic.

It's quite pathetic.

[sheshe2]

125. Hey you.

Good post.

I've made myself scarce here. Way to ugly.

[cwydro]

175. This particular OP sure is.

As I said, I'm undecided still - some days leaning toward Hillary, some days toward Sanders. Would be interested if Biden got in, but his games are beginning to bore me.

Posts like this, however, simply make supporters of whichever candidate posts them look very bad. This is the second really awful one I've seen from a Sanders supporter. The other was a vicious photo of Hillary that had no place on DU.

Sensible supporters of both candidates should try and rein in their more unreasonable peers.

[Bluenorthwest]

201. A supporter who makes the candidate look bad is in fact a detractor.

nt