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WhaTHellsgoingonhere

(5,252 posts)
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:00 PM Oct 2015

Hillary voted with BushCo because she trusted them

How naive/gullible does one have to be to be wooed by Dick Cheney et al? How can you look at the whole of the Admin and not see the obvious: this is a chronie war and nothing more.

Moreover, this is a massive blow to her foreign policy prowess. How naive is it to believe this war wouldn't destabilize the Middle East? This wasn't unknown. Pappy Bush didn't remove Saddam because he knew what it would lead to. And that's now what we have.

"I trusted BushCo."
What a fool.

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hillary voted with BushCo because she trusted them (Original Post) WhaTHellsgoingonhere Oct 2015 OP
She made a political calculation and she was wrong. Broward Oct 2015 #1
Yes, she did Samantha Oct 2015 #7
Yes, I was around here back then but didn't post much. Broward Oct 2015 #8
I said at that time -- and I was furious -- that I would not vote ever for any Dem running for POTUS Samantha Oct 2015 #27
it's also ideological: she's a liberal hawk and genuinely does believe that THIS time it'll only las MisterP Oct 2015 #19
I found DU after Ohio stole the 2004 election. WhaTHellsgoingonhere Oct 2015 #21
DU came online right after The Idiot-in-Chief Bush stole the first election. in_cog_ni_to Oct 2015 #23
+ 1000 nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #11
And she is getting worse, actually: cprise Oct 2015 #28
The Clinton's and the Bush's are best buddies... bkkyosemite Oct 2015 #2
I have made this point before that the only explanation for her vote is: Kelvin Mace Oct 2015 #3
this should be a standalone op restorefreedom Oct 2015 #12
Good!! Now she needs to be beaten over the... WhaTHellsgoingonhere Oct 2015 #22
+1000!!! in_cog_ni_to Oct 2015 #24
And this kind of political analysis Generic Other Oct 2015 #30
Trusting pubs seems to be a problem with certain democrats Bill C had the problem Obama has the YabaDabaNoDinoNo Oct 2015 #4
So why did Bernie also trust them? JaneyVee Oct 2015 #5
he voted against the iraq war restorefreedom Oct 2015 #13
that link takes you to madokie Oct 2015 #15
Bernie never voted on a HOUSE Resolution! HAHAHHAHHA!!! WhaTHellsgoingonhere Oct 2015 #31
I don't trust any Bush or Clinton bigwillq Oct 2015 #6
The whole country trusted Bush et al, at the time. procon Oct 2015 #9
I, like many others madokie Oct 2015 #16
All true, but our focus as private citizens was not the same as political leaders. procon Oct 2015 #20
Over half the Democrats in Congress voted against the IWR Fumesucker Oct 2015 #18
I didn't trust him and no one I know trusted him. We all knew he was lying. in_cog_ni_to Oct 2015 #25
Yes, I know, but anecdotal evidence and conjecturing notwithstanding, procon Oct 2015 #26
The Clintons and the Bushes are old friends. She was supporting her friend. nt ChisolmTrailDem Oct 2015 #10
let's just remember something. If Chafee restorefreedom Oct 2015 #14
Monumental stupidity or political expediency? Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #17
Folks act as though Hillary was the only and deciding vote on the Iraq invasion. nt kelliekat44 Oct 2015 #29

Samantha

(9,314 posts)
7. Yes, she did
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:34 PM
Oct 2015

She planned to make a future Presidential run, and as a woman did not want to be perceived to be soft on war. So she aligned herself with the war hawks for her own political expediency. What she failed to factor into her equation was the possibility that the war would be an immensely unpopular never-ending one which would ignite the stability in the Middle East. While everyone agreed that Saddam Hussein was an evil person, the only stabilizing factor was that everyone feared him. Without him, chaos.

I wonder if you participated in or remember any of the threads going on at DU at that time. This website itself reflected so much furor over the lies being told the public and the knowledge that as Americans we too would be held responsible by the rest of the world for the thousands of civilians our military killed. And if we as mere posters on an internet political website could not see through the lies and distortions, how could she have not?

Preemptive war, my a**.

Sam

Broward

(1,976 posts)
8. Yes, I was around here back then but didn't post much.
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:43 PM
Oct 2015

It's definitely an eye-opener that so many once vocal critics of that war now favor Hillary as their first choice.

Samantha

(9,314 posts)
27. I said at that time -- and I was furious -- that I would not vote ever for any Dem running for POTUS
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 04:00 PM
Oct 2015

who signed that authorization to give Bush* permission to go into Iraq. And while people (especially commentators) are fond of saying "most Americans" supported that invasion, I don't remember it exactly like that. There was a poll I distinctly remember which said 52 percent of Democrats did not support the Iraq invasion. I never heard a similar poll regarding how Republicans felt, but many of them had doubts about the concept of a preemptive war.

Two words: Richard Clarke.

It is mind boggling to me as well that simply because 12 years have passed since the inception of this illegal, immoral war, all is forgiven to those whose support helped that concept -- preemptive war -- springboard from a discussion into a reality. And the consequences of that war still haunt this world today and will continue to do so for decades to come.

So "no", all is not forgiven by many of us who cannot wash away the stain we feel we have as Americans on our hands, thanks to many of our politicians who chose personal political expediency over the moral right.

Sam

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
19. it's also ideological: she's a liberal hawk and genuinely does believe that THIS time it'll only las
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 01:39 PM
Oct 2015

6 months and solve all our mideast headaches: she genuinely believed that Obama's DoS was different--with the Best and the Brightest operating off of the most advanced human-rights theorists and Kagan spouses it wouldn't be at ALL like Chimpy McNumbnuts' "missteps" that made Iraq go so awry!

of course they don't THINK more than 6 months in advance


it's like the Euston Manifesto clowns (who sound a lot like Breivik now)
 

WhaTHellsgoingonhere

(5,252 posts)
21. I found DU after Ohio stole the 2004 election.
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 02:20 PM
Oct 2015

But I've been told that DU was established by truth seekers seeking the truth. What I've dicovered, however, is DU doesn't consist of truth seekers, after all. For the most part (not everyone), it's a cheerleading and Pom Pom waving forum for our team, truth be damned!

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
23. DU came online right after The Idiot-in-Chief Bush stole the first election.
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 03:06 PM
Oct 2015

Not sure about the Truthseeker thing, but I discovered it the day the asshole warmonger, Bush was sworn in.


Skinner and friends had a huge banner that said DEMOCRATICUNDERGROUND.COM and were walking it through the inauguration crowd. I saw them on the TeeVee and immediately logged on. I lurked for awhile. Read a lot of Will Pitts EXCELLENT articles and joined.

It was a RELIEF to have a place to vent after the theft of that election, the debacle in Fl. And the hanging chads. Everyone hated Bush and Cheney. It-was-GREAT. Until Primary Seasons hit.

This place has changed a LOT since then. A lot. That was also before the lovely alert system was put in place.

bkkyosemite

(5,792 posts)
2. The Clinton's and the Bush's are best buddies...
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:07 PM
Oct 2015

You've seen those pics of the two royal families together chummy and smiling (don't know how to put pic here).

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
3. I have made this point before that the only explanation for her vote is:
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:22 PM
Oct 2015

1) She believed Bush. If true, then she is dangerously gullible and completely incompetent to handle foreign relations.

2) She knew Bush was lying, but went along with it rather than risk her career opposing it. Since it was "polling" well, she felt this was a safe thing to do. If true, she was prepared to see innocent people die by the hundreds if thousands and the U.S. spent into penury as long as that advanced her political ambitions.

3) She knew it was a lie, but agreed with Bush's objectives. If true, she is a war monger at best, and a war criminal at worst.

In short, her reason for voting for war in Iraq was either: "I am stupid and incompetent", "I am a soulless opportunist" or "I am a disciple of the Eichmann/Kissinger school of of foreign policy.

None of these explanations recommend her for any further public office.

 

YabaDabaNoDinoNo

(460 posts)
4. Trusting pubs seems to be a problem with certain democrats Bill C had the problem Obama has the
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:24 PM
Oct 2015

Problem and Hillary does too

Good rational for not voting for HRC and her third way dlc corporate dem pals

 

WhaTHellsgoingonhere

(5,252 posts)
31. Bernie never voted on a HOUSE Resolution! HAHAHHAHHA!!!
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 07:03 PM
Oct 2015

Janey, you are a trip...or you're tripping.

Aside from a digression about income inequality and whatnot, he made this impassioned speech against the war. FIVE minutes!



procon

(15,805 posts)
9. The whole country trusted Bush et al, at the time.
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 01:02 PM
Oct 2015

Only a very tiny fraction even dared to question the feckless claims for casus belli that Bush was tossing around, and we were branded as traitors. The president would never lie to us and there was no reason for anyone, the public and politicians alike, not to believe the official propaganda. Who would dare to step outside the approved groupthink and risk their political chops on the flaming pitchfork of public condemnation or invite their own political assassination at the hands of Republicans. The rationale was always the same; Be afraid, we are at war.

Was that naive? Meh... That overworked throwaway line is still the same limp cliche that it has always been. It doesn't work because it means that we have to reduce the whole series of very complex historical events to a simple black and white outline and pretend that everyone at that time already knew what we know now.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
16. I, like many others
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 01:15 PM
Oct 2015

Very well knew it was all hogwash

I'm not even privy to any government documents and I figured this out on my own.
Hillary will never be President and thats as simple as it gets

procon

(15,805 posts)
20. All true, but our focus as private citizens was not the same as political leaders.
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 01:53 PM
Oct 2015

The safety and security of the whole country didn't rest on our shoulders, so the subsequent name calling that resulted from denouncing Bush's warmongering was bearable. Yes, as private citizens we found sources that made us suspicious and ultimately led us to the conclusion that Bush lied. Politician had far more to consider, not to mention the forthcoming career ending blowback if they dared to undermining America's most popular wartime president.

We didn't have access to those government documents, but for politicians, they represented the best intelligence of the day -- or so the Congress was assured at the time -- and just as always before, they were believed to be infallible. That was the only official source of information provided to politicians and the coverup was guaranteed by a conspiracy between Bush and his whole cabinet, the FBI, the CIA, the military, and a compliant media. Put it all up against a few outlier news articles from the foreign press or some unknown reporter in little known news service, and the fix was in from the start.

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
25. I didn't trust him and no one I know trusted him. We all knew he was lying.
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 03:13 PM
Oct 2015

If we knew he was lying, Hillary knew and ignored the lies.

procon

(15,805 posts)
26. Yes, I know, but anecdotal evidence and conjecturing notwithstanding,
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 03:46 PM
Oct 2015

the polling data of the time, still doesn't match your personal experience. Conversely, I was the only person I knew that thought Bush was conning us. I was an outlier in a very conservative area, but it's nice to know there were bastions of sanity like yours in those days of Republican madness.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
14. let's just remember something. If Chafee
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 01:11 PM
Oct 2015

as the only Republican to vote against the Iraq war, and who many believe is a dunce, could figure out that bush and his evil buddies were lying, how could this supposedly smart person not figure it out?

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