HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » Do any other Bernie suppo...

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 11:40 AM

Do any other Bernie supporters feel better about voting for HRC in general election?

My frustration with HRC was really high going into this debate.

But I realized that I'd be happy with EVERY PERSON ON THAT STAGE in, yes, a Clinton-led cabinet (Webb, tightly reined, back in Defense, Chaffee at Interior, O'Malley as VP), with Sanders mobilizing monthly marches to hold their feet to the fire and help transform politics at state levels as well.

What struck me, a long-time radical feminist who opposes HRC on her neoliberal policies, is that as long as HRC can actually be REAL--can actually explain to us that she isn't just cynically manipulating people but has reasons for her reserve, her calculation, her position changes, and that she actually is human enough to get pissed off at the Republicans and has the passion to call them on their shit--I can tolerate her candidacy without flinching. In fact, I can be proud of her strength.

When she says she doesn't have a position yet on something, I can handle that if she consistently says she wants all of the information before she commits. If part of how she sincerely forms positions is that she waits to decide what reflects what the people want and what can actually get done, well, I can handle that. That's a strategy. One doesn't have to agree with it, but if there's a moral compass there, somewhere, I can handle it. I sensed last night for the first time in 15 years that she does have a moral compass.

And honestly, as much as I'm so grateful for Sanders' leadership of the nascent 21st century American economic equality movement (whatever it's going to end up being called, because it's not going away), I don't know how well that would translate into presidential leadership without a cadre of democratic socialists up and down the ticket. And I don't know how well he could manage that position. I think his role, and on some level he knows this, is as the John the Baptist/Jewish prophet-type agitator and mobilizer, and in this he's already won--we've already won--because WE'VE ALREADY GOT THE JOB. Whether we win a primary or a general election, we've got lots of work to do. The mass mobilization of Americans against the oligarchs is happening and isn't going away. A serious candidate for President is a self-avowed socialist and is mobilizing 15-20% of the electorate, many of whom are young and will become more committed to these positions as they grow older. This is awesome.

A passionate, pissed off Hillary, when held to economic populist standards by a nascent, vocal democratic socialist movement fueled through social media and community activism, will begin to get 'er done in a reasoned way. She IS highly competent across a range of fronts. She really is an impressive leader.

I do not like admitting this.

The idiot mainstream media's terror of "socialism" and their disregard of their own focus groups and polling results notwithstanding, I do see her as the next President of the United States, with Martin O'Malley as her VP (that might be the bone she has to throw to the economic populists, that and Debbie's head). He is one serious attack dog, when properly harnessed. Bernie can keep mobilizing the monthly marches to take back our country. No President alone is going to be able to do it anyway. And a President doesn't have time to mobilize--that's the job of the agitator. Bernie's better at whipping up the base than she is. We need both simultaneously.

I'll vote for Bernie in the NC primary and keep campaigning for him, because as he knows best, his candidacy is the way to begin educating other Americans that our system is broken and there are alternatives.

But this morning, I am a bit relieved, and hopeful, and reminded that we've all got our work to do. In the likely event that Sanders "loses," he and we are still "winning," because we need a lot more than the Presidency to make the changes that need to occur in this country. In that sense, let her be the negotiator, while we keep agitating. The long game is too important.





41 replies, 2405 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply Do any other Bernie supporters feel better about voting for HRC in general election? (Original post)
zazen Oct 2015 OP
bkkyosemite Oct 2015 #1
zazen Oct 2015 #4
haikugal Oct 2015 #5
bkkyosemite Oct 2015 #28
Robbins Oct 2015 #2
Snotcicles Oct 2015 #19
bkkyosemite Oct 2015 #29
Dawgs Oct 2015 #3
Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #6
1000words Oct 2015 #23
haikugal Oct 2015 #7
azmom Oct 2015 #8
Catherina Oct 2015 #9
Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #15
CountAllVotes Oct 2015 #10
zazen Oct 2015 #13
Le Taz Hot Oct 2015 #34
zazen Oct 2015 #36
Le Taz Hot Oct 2015 #37
Cheese Sandwich Oct 2015 #11
Broward Oct 2015 #12
HooptieWagon Oct 2015 #14
highprincipleswork Oct 2015 #16
YabaDabaNoDinoNo Oct 2015 #17
Fawke Em Oct 2015 #18
pinebox Oct 2015 #20
KT2000 Oct 2015 #21
Zorra Oct 2015 #22
99Forever Oct 2015 #24
restorefreedom Oct 2015 #25
SamKnause Oct 2015 #26
gwheezie Oct 2015 #27
magical thyme Oct 2015 #30
LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #31
elana i am Oct 2015 #32
Le Taz Hot Oct 2015 #33
Corruption Inc Oct 2015 #35
winter is coming Oct 2015 #38
Pastiche423 Oct 2015 #39
CharlotteVale Oct 2015 #40
JRLeft Oct 2015 #41

Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 11:43 AM

1. I wish the narrative of

if he loses stops here on DU because he absolutely can win if the people make it so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bkkyosemite (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 11:51 AM

4. I want the Movement to "win" regardless of whether he wins nomination

The secret of his success thus far is that he's running to advance a movement, not himself. Would I prefer a radical shake-up and a cabinet full of progressives? Of course.

There are many other ways to "win," however, and even if he wins the GE, the movement must be as active as if HRC won. In that sense it's somewhat immaterial, because unless millions of people are mobilized we won't stem the corruption of DC, Wall Street, and the global corporatocracy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 11:54 AM

5. All very true...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 01:18 PM

28. "he's running to advance a movement" No he

is running for President of the United States so he can accomplish the peoples wants and needs by bringing them into his presidency. Why would you make it seem like he is just a good guy working on a good cause for all. He is a presidential candidate and needs that respect. He is not the other guy just trying to make a movement.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 11:49 AM

2. Doesn't matter

bernie is going to win.let's stop the defeast mentality.he can and will win.question is will Clintons endorse Bernie for GE?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robbins (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:29 PM

19. Regardless of who the nominee is the other and their supporters will have to join in

 

and move forward. By not doing so will expose just how hollow their rhetoric was.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robbins (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 01:18 PM

29. Absolutely Agree!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 11:49 AM

3. Hell no.

 

She did nothing to prove that she STILL ISN'T pro-war, pro-wall street, or pro-big banks. Fall for her pandering if you want, but I ain't buying it.

I'll vote for her, but I definitely won't feel better about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 11:54 AM

6. Nope. And, I won't vote for her.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #6)


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 11:55 AM

7. No. I don't feel better about Clinton at all. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 11:57 AM

8. No. Her performance was just that a

Performance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 11:58 AM

9. "with Sanders mobilizing monthly marches" lol. Nice try, no cigar n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Catherina (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:13 PM

15. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 11:59 AM

10. Why vote for her when ...

The winner according to this poll is ...



You GO Bernie Sanders! We the People are with you!!!



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:06 PM

13. I said I'm still voting for Bernie in the primary, but I won't sit out GE if she's nominee

which I had seriously been considering (or just writing him in).

I guess I now see her as Machiavellian (like most men) but with some moral compass, and that her promises to go so far left, while forced out of her because of our Movement, will have to in some part be kept if elected.

This keeps being interpreted as my saying I'm changing my affiliation to Clinton. I'm not.

But I'm not nauseous at the prospect of voting for her if she's the nominee. To me, that's an improvement. I don't like to demonize anybody.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Reply #13)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 02:30 PM

34. Nobody on this board is "sitting out this election."

Not voting for the corporate shill does not equal "sitting out this election. I get so tired of this shit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #34)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 02:39 PM

36. referring to my comment as "shit" is weirdly harsh--I feel like I'm in some alternate universe here

I sincerely expressed that I've changed my mind in small part about a candidate I still don't support. I wanted to know if others had.

There really is room between vitriolic attack of someone who doesn't hate Hillary--your response-- and vitriolic attack of someone who questions her (my experience when I questioned her neoliberalism on the HRC group and was immediately banned as a "misogynist."

The nastiness here coming from a few folks on both sides is pretty destructive. Please just stop.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Reply #36)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 02:40 PM

37. This is GD-P. Wear a cup.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 11:59 AM

11. nope

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:00 PM

12. I don't trust a word she says.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:11 PM

14. No.

 

DLC/Third Way has steered the party in the wrong direction for too long. The lesser of two evils is no longer a consideration.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:18 PM

16. One thing that I'm more sure of is she won't be helping my own Middle Class economies

 

Check out her words carefully, very carefully, as other posters have noted. You can see that the very disadvantaged will get a hand. But those in the middle, not so much. Sounds like they/we/I are in jeopardy.

I'm also pretty sure we'll find ourselves in more wars.

I'm sure where Bernie stands on economic issues, and I stand there with him.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:18 PM

17. Option of HRC not changed nor will it change. My vote will not change nor go to her either.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:18 PM

18. No.

Mainly because I don't trust most of what she said.

She's shown me too often what her timber is and it's not progressive.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:33 PM

20. Nope not a chance I'll vote for her

 

Nope, not happening.
Especially after that whole flip flop on live TV saying she's a progressive while just saying a couple weeks ago she's a moderate. She'll pander for anything and is completely disingenuous

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:44 PM

21. Yes nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:54 PM

22. No. I'm done with neoliberals forever.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:59 PM

24. Sorry, but no.

I have no trust for her words or any faith that won't take a hard right turn if she were elected. It's what neoliberals do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 01:03 PM

25. nope. in fact i am even more concerned

after hearing her remarks about foreign-policy, iran, Syria, and her defense of capitalism and her wishy washy answer on the banks. I'm even more convinced that she's wrong for this country. She may have presented her ideas well, but she's got the wrong ideas.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 01:07 PM

26. No.

She is the opposite of authentic or trustworthy.

She wants the U.S. military to control the world.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 01:15 PM

27. I feel the same way about bernie

I support HRC but Bernie did well in the debate. I was concerned about how he would do in a debate but he certainly can hold his own. If he is the nominee I will vote for him. Of course.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 01:19 PM

30. I feel more confident that Bernie can and will win the primary as long as we

 

keep our focus and keep moving forward.

Because if we don't, and we let Hillary's flip-flopping and prevarications slide through to the white house, it's going to be a longer, harder slog to keep treading water than it already is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 01:27 PM

31. No. I will credit Hillary with presenting herself well

However, she dodged more questions than she answered, began talking about unrelated items when presented with a difficult topic, did nothing to convince me she cares about average people, and once again showed that using the military is always her first option.

Same opportunist as ever.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 02:26 PM

32. no

for me it's understood that on the whole, any presidential candidate who runs to win has a certain level of arrogance, a certain type of narcissistic personality, a certain self centered-ness and self aggrandizement to want to run for the job in the first place.

but once in a while someone who doesn't entirely embody those typical characteristics comes along. in my lifetime jimmy carter, dennis kucinich, bernie sanders...hmm. the list is short. had paul wellstone lived would he have run for president?

i have to hang my hopes on bernie sanders. a clinton, webb or chafee is unacceptable when there's a sanders. i have standards.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 02:28 PM

33. Being a Decline to State in California

I have the wonderful luxury of voting my conscience so I've no obligation to goose-step to anyone's party line. Thank the goddess. And don't 'cha just love the write-in option?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 03:00 PM

38. No. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 06:58 PM

39. No

I will never vote for her.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 07:06 PM

40. No. She did very well last night. I still don't trust her.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zazen (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2015, 07:07 PM

41. No she's more corporate than ever.

 

It's a squeeze your nose vote.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread