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Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:34 PM

Bernie Sanders on Marriage Equality October 23, 2006

Last edited Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:43 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4548262/sanders-gay-marriage

Discuss.

UPDATE: Look, I really don't have a problem with Sanders' answer in 2006. He gave a politician's answer; for all I know, he did support full and unconditional same-sex marriage rights in 2006.

But he didn't say that. Could it be because of the fact that he was running for the U.S. Senate seat in his state?

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Arrow 137 replies Author Time Post
Reply Bernie Sanders on Marriage Equality October 23, 2006 (Original post)
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 OP
SouthernProgressive Sep 2015 #1
virtualobserver Sep 2015 #6
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #10
virtualobserver Sep 2015 #11
restorefreedom Sep 2015 #13
SouthernProgressive Sep 2015 #15
restorefreedom Sep 2015 #18
restorefreedom Sep 2015 #21
SouthernProgressive Sep 2015 #22
restorefreedom Sep 2015 #25
SouthernProgressive Sep 2015 #26
restorefreedom Sep 2015 #32
sabrina 1 Sep 2015 #88
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #97
sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #134
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #16
restorefreedom Sep 2015 #19
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #24
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #29
restorefreedom Sep 2015 #34
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #46
Zorra Sep 2015 #2
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #3
SMC22307 Sep 2015 #5
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #9
SMC22307 Sep 2015 #14
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #20
SMC22307 Sep 2015 #27
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #31
SMC22307 Sep 2015 #48
stevenleser Sep 2015 #70
restorefreedom Sep 2015 #12
Zorra Sep 2015 #7
Maedhros Sep 2015 #103
Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #135
Zorra Sep 2015 #4
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #23
Zorra Sep 2015 #55
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #61
Zorra Sep 2015 #71
SusanaMontana41 Oct 2015 #133
brooklynite Sep 2015 #8
SouthernProgressive Sep 2015 #17
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #30
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #33
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #35
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #42
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #43
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #47
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #49
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #50
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #51
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #52
MrScorpio Sep 2015 #53
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #54
MrScorpio Sep 2015 #59
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #62
MrScorpio Sep 2015 #66
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #68
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #69
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #72
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #77
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #79
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #86
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #89
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #101
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #104
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #109
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #111
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #115
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #117
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #120
virtualobserver Sep 2015 #112
MrScorpio Sep 2015 #74
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #76
MrScorpio Sep 2015 #84
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #87
MrScorpio Sep 2015 #92
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #95
MrScorpio Sep 2015 #98
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #102
MrScorpio Sep 2015 #107
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #110
MrScorpio Sep 2015 #114
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #82
MrScorpio Sep 2015 #85
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #56
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #58
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #63
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #64
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #65
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #67
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #73
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #75
dsc Sep 2015 #78
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #80
dsc Sep 2015 #81
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #83
Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #100
dsc Sep 2015 #119
restorefreedom Sep 2015 #37
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #28
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #36
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #39
restorefreedom Sep 2015 #41
Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #94
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #106
Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #113
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #118
AlbertCat Sep 2015 #122
restorefreedom Sep 2015 #38
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #40
restorefreedom Sep 2015 #44
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #45
Zorra Sep 2015 #57
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #60
Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #91
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #93
Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #96
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #99
Maedhros Sep 2015 #105
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #108
Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #90
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #116
Maedhros Sep 2015 #121
beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #132
Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #136
beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #137
DemocraticWing Sep 2015 #123
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #124
DemocraticWing Sep 2015 #125
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #128
jfern Sep 2015 #126
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #127
jfern Sep 2015 #130
Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #131
Prism Sep 2015 #129

Response to Chitown Kev (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:37 PM

1. Marriage is a states issue, that's what it is." Sanders. nt.

 

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:52 PM

6. Bush was President and civil unions were legal in Vermont

 

His full response was he "did not think that the Federal government should be in the business of overturning Massachusetts or any other state"

Every line that he said was in support of gay marriage (civil unions in the case of Vermont).

I was married in a Civil union myself.

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #6)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:58 PM

10. Quiet as that was kept

George W. Bush did support civil unions, yes

And, apparently, The Shrub has officiated a same-sex ceremony in Maine.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #10)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:03 PM

11. Those Bushes are such private people

 

Daddy Bush was pro-choice until he heard the voice of his Republican pollster.

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:08 PM

13. bernie did not want the feds

to be able to override states that had civil unions.

your statement, either by design or by accident, suggests that bernie was not in favor of ss marriage, which he always has been

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #13)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:17 PM

15. It isn't my statement.

 

I was highlighting the part I thought the op was talking about for people who didn't want to watch the video. Go wag your finger at someone else.

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #15)


Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #15)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:23 PM

21. it is still out of context

and leads to the conclusion that bernie is against ssm or wants the states to squash it

an erroneous interpretation

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #21)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:24 PM

22. No, it isn't. Watch the video. There is no qualifier. Pretty simple stuff.

 

Not a long video.

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #22)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:28 PM

25. he has always been for full equality rights

in 2006 there were still numerous state efforts to take thise rights away, as well as repubs in congress who wanted federal codification of their bigotry.

if bernie wanted that issue to stay in the states at that time, it is because he believed it was the safest way to maximize rights and reduce discrimination

any other conclusion is a misread of his words and intentions.

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #25)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:29 PM

26. I never said anything different. You are arguing something that isn't there. nt.

 

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #26)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:37 PM

32. well then all i have to say

is goody

have a nice day!

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #22)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:20 PM

88. Bernie did not want the Federal Govt to be able to over ride states, like his own

where marriage equality was legal. Good for him, again. Always protecting the people, especially those who need it most.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #88)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:35 PM

97. Only Massachusetts had same-sex marriage laws on the books

Vermont had civil unions and California had domestic partnerships (a same-sex marriage bill was passed by the California legislature in 2005 but that bill was vetoed by Governor Schwarzenegger).

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #15)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 04:38 AM

134. Bernie Sanders supported Civil Unions Period. He was afraid of the Federal Govt being able to

over ride a state, such as his where Civil Unions were legal, which what the statement you took out of context, was about. We all agreed with him back then. Do you think he should have supported the Feds being able to stop Civil Unions in Vt?

You've had this explained to you now several times.

But if your goal is to try to undermine his excellent record on this issue, 40 years ago when to even talk about support Gay Rights could have been political death, he marched in a Gay Pride parade in his state, not caring one bit what anyone thought or whether or not it would affect his elections.

I think this is a loser for his opponents, his record is so long and so clear, it is pointless to even try. I would think that anyone who sincerely supports/supported Gay rights would be thrilled to know that there were SOME politicians who were fighting for those rights when most were not.

Unless you think he was wrong, then this is a waste of time.

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #13)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:17 PM

16. Hmmmmmm....the Federal Marriage Amendment had failed twice already.

Think again.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #16)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:20 PM

19. if you are suggesting

that sanders wanted ss marriage to stay in the states so it could be squashed on a state by state basis, that is erroneous.

he has always been for full equality rights

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #19)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:28 PM

24. That's not what I'm suggesting

he has always been for full equality rights


The video evidence that I provided says otherwise. Mayor Richard Daley of Chicago was for full equality rights. 2004 Presidential candidates Al Sharpton and Carol Moseley Braun were for full marriage equality rights.

Bernie sanders was not publically willing to go there in 2006...look at the date on that video.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #24)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:36 PM

29. Bernie's vote against DOMA proves otherwise. That was in 1996.

Keep digging.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #24)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:39 PM

34. i have dates too

while bmus beat me to it on doma , i will add a couple of other historical tidbits

1983 supported the first gay pride event in burlington, vt and helped pass the resolution to declare june 25 lesbian and gay pride day
1984 signed a resolution declaring that all levels of government should support gay rights.
1996 voted against DOMA


I believe all these occurred before the date of your video. Care to try again?

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #34)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:52 PM

46. Both of my IL Senators voted against DOMA

and a certain person campaigning for a state Senate seat in Illinois was FOR marriage equality even though he was a bit shady when he rescinded that support as his electorate expanded.

At no time in this video does Bernie Sanders say anything like "I support same-sex marriage." There were politicians who were able to say that; hell, the California legislature had even passed a same-sex marriage law by then.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:42 PM

2. Clinton: "I believe marriage is not just a bond but a sacred bond between a man and a woman.

I have had occasion in my life to defend marriage, to stand up for marriage, to believe in the hard work and challenge of marriage. So I take umbrage at anyone who might suggest that those of us who worry about amending the Constitution are less committed to the sanctity of marriage, or to the fundamental bedrock principle that it exists between a man and a woman, going back into the midst of history as one of the founding, foundational institutions of history and humanity and civilization, and that its primary, principal role during those millennia has been the raising and socializing of children for the society into which they are to become adults."

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Response to Zorra (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:45 PM

3. I'm not a Hillary Clinton supporter (contrary to popular opinion)

And this thread is not about Hillary Clinton.

Try again, please.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #3)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:51 PM

5. This thread will be about whatever DUers want it to be.

And comparing candidates' positions on marriage equality will be an educational experience. Any O'Malley supporters want to weigh in? Webb? Chafee?

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #5)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:55 PM

9. After the bullshit that was pulled on me yesterday?

Go for it.

As I said, I'm not a Hillary Clinton supporter. So posting a video on Hillary Clinton's shadiness on marriage equality (and many other things) proves nothing to me.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #9)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:13 PM

14. Oh, dear. Lemme guess: Offensive post(s), hide(s), accusations of alert-stalking!11!

You're pretty new 'round these parts, but I see you've jumped right into the fray. Well done, Kev, well done.

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #14)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:22 PM

20. I am known for "jumping right in the fray"

and mixing it up, thank you for that complement!

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:31 PM

27. "Compliment."

Sorry, I'm obnoxious that way.

Well, be careful with those hides, for you won't be able to get your message out. Unless, of course, your message is to prove how awful *useless white supremacist liberal* DUers are. You wouldn't be playing that game, now, would you?

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #27)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:37 PM

31. Is that something like playing "race cards"?

I calls it as I see it at any given moment in time.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #31)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:57 PM

48. I dunno. Ask those counting black and brown people at Sanders events...

then breathlessly reporting their findings.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #31)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:52 PM

70. Jury Results: 4-3 to keep

 

On Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:45 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Is that something like playing "race cards"?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=592607

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Newbie poster spreading anti-Bernie crap, and now this "race card" comment. Obvious troll is obvious.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:50 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This alert is an example of alert-stalking. Alerter is angry at Chitown Kev because he isn't a Bernie supporter and that is enough to alert and try to get the post hidden. I'm going to be alerting on the results as soon as they come in so that the admins can take a closer look at whoever alerted.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No worse than anything else in the subthread.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #5)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:05 PM

12. chafee and om support ss rights and marriage

i know absolutely nothing about webb

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #3)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:53 PM

7. I'm pwning it. Deal. nt

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #3)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:42 PM

103. Yet, you seem to be driven solely by the need to disparage Sanders and his supporters.

 

Why is that?

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 04:42 AM

135. right.

of course you're not.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:51 PM

4. "Do you think NY State should recognize gay marriage"? Hillary: "NO".

The pain comes at 2:00 on the video.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #4)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:24 PM

23. Bernie was asked a different question

IIRC, he was asked if gay marriage should be extended beyond Massachusetts.

Even then, he was more progressive than Hillary, yes.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #23)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:16 PM

55. In 1996, Rep, Bernie Sanders voted against the Defense of Marriage Act, an act that

barred federal recognition of gay marriages.

So whatever your game is here, if you try to play the game that Bernie did not support marriage equality in 2006, you've already lost.

BTW, are you gay or transgender?

If not, thanks so very much for your concern anyway.


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Response to Zorra (Reply #55)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:23 PM

61. I'm gay, yes...been OTC for a long time

and never could hide my gayness, actually.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #61)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:56 PM

71. I totally get it.

We have a DU LGBT group, just in case you aren't aware of it.

All are welcome.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 03:50 AM

133. WHOA

I found this thread through a link.

Wow. How can she walk these back?

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Response to Chitown Kev (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:54 PM

8. Overtaken by events?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #8)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:17 PM

17. Has he evolved? nt.

 

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Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #17)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:37 PM

30. Bernie didn't need to, he always supported civil rights for everyone. Unlike your candidate.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #30)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:39 PM

33. The evidence of this video says otherwise.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #33)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:40 PM

35. No, it doesn't. If he was against marriage equality he would have voted for DOMA.

You can't dismiss his record because you don't like his supporters.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #35)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:45 PM

42. Barack Obama has never been FOR DOMA

in the entirety of his political career.

He has given public statements against marriage equality although I must say that given that Obama was against Proposition 8, technically, he was a little bit ahead of Bernie Sanders on this issue

At no time in this video (and I've looked at the entire debate here, which was quite interesting) does Bernie Sanders say that he supports same-sex marriage rights.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #42)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:47 PM

43. Who said anything about Obama?

And again, Bernie's vote AGAINST DOMA proves he was for marriage equality in 1996.

Keep digging.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #42)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:54 PM

47. If you really want to bring Obama into this I have four words: Donnie McClurkin/Rick Warren.

You don't want to go there, trust me.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #47)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:58 PM

49. You can go for the 2009 DOMA brief, as well

I blistered Obama about that back in the day, I don't think I have ever been as angry at the president as I was about that brief...and your point is...

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #49)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:00 PM

50. My point is that you brought Obama into this like he was a champion for lgbt people.

And then compared him to Bernie as if he had a better record:

Barack Obama has never been FOR DOMA

in the entirety of his political career.

He has given public statements against marriage equality although I must say that given that Obama was against Proposition 8, technically, he was a little bit ahead of Bernie Sanders on this issue

At no time in this video (and I've looked at the entire debate here, which was quite interesting) does Bernie Sanders say that he supports same-sex marriage rights.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #50)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:05 PM

51. For one, Obama has been a champion for LGBT people

you can't even question that, surely.

Well, Bernie wasn't running for President and he wasn't being asked about Proposition 8 in 2008. And don't get me to go there about Obama's shadiness on the anti-Prop 8/anti-gay marriage position, that was bullshit on Obama's part.

But I can fairly assess what Obama's overall record is.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #51)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:06 PM

52. "But I can fairly assess what Obama's overall record is."

Yet you just can't bring yourself to do the same for Bernie, a true champion for lgbt people.

Why is that?

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #52)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:15 PM

53. Oh, by the way, my cousin, ChitownKev, is an openly gay man

And as one, I defer to him to choose his own champions.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #53)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:16 PM

54. As do I, but I have every right to defend smears against my candidate.

The original pusher of this meme is also a gay DUer and I didn't pull any punches with them either.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #54)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:22 PM

59. What does that even mean?

They're both the same person.

Kev merely posted a vid in his OP of Sanders speaking on marriage equality and LGBT matters, WITHOUT COMMENT... That's not an attack. He suggested a discussion of what Sanders said.


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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #59)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:28 PM

62. He didn't claim that Bernie didn't support marriage equality in 2006?

And, apparently, The Shrub has officiated a same-sex ceremony in Maine.The video evidence that I provided says otherwise. Mayor Richard Daley of Chicago was for full equality rights. 2004 Presidential candidates Al Sharpton and Carol Moseley Braun were for full marriage equality rights.

Bernie sanders was not publically willing to go there in 2006...look at the date on that video.


At no time in this video does Bernie Sanders say anything like "I support same-sex marriage." There were politicians who were able to say that; hell, the California legislature had even passed a same-sex marriage law by then.


The evidence of this video says otherwise.


At no time in this video (and I've looked at the entire debate here, which was quite interesting) does Bernie Sanders say that he supports same-sex marriage rights.



whether he supported the extension of gay marriage beyond Massachusetts.

Bernie Sanders said that he thought gay marriage was a "state issue" and he did NOT say that he supported same-sex marriage rights even for Vermont.

By 2006 there were politicians that did give full-throated support for same-sex marriage rights including a majority of the California legislature.

Bernie Sanders WAS NOT one of those politicians in 2006. The evidence is provided in the video.


I know all of that

but by 2006, there were politicians and even presidential candidates that were giving full-throated support to nationwide marriage equality.

Bernie Sanders was not one of those politicians.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #62)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:41 PM

66. Sanders in the video said that he supported civil unions and that marriage was a state issue

Kev pointed out that, as of 2006, that his position hadn't graduated to the point of overturning all marriage laws federally, specifically to impose marriage equality.

Why is this controversial?

Of course, Sanders didn't want the feds to overturn marriage laws in 2006, Bush was in the White House then. There was no way that he could have predicted that Obama would come into office, overturn DOMA and successfully fight for marriage equality.

Sure, later he went from supporting civil unions in the states, to federally mandated marriage equality. His answer in that vid was based on the political realities of the time, one in which he felt (then) that going for full equality would have created setbacks from where they were at the time.

The guy's a politician, he gave a political answer.

I don't see why this a problem to point that out.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #66)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:47 PM

68. Exactly, he didn't want the feds to overturn states' same sex marriage laws.

There's no problem with pointing out anything but if you want to prove the claim that Bernie didn't support marriage equality in 2006 you need to do better than noting what he didn't say.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #68)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:52 PM

69. Remember, one state already had same-sex marriage laws at that time

and the Feds had already failed to pass a Federal Marriage Amendment twice.

True enough, there was still work to be done on the ground in Vermont to get the Vermont legislature to pass marriage equality.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #69)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:57 PM

72. I'm from Vermont, I know the history.

Which is why this argument irks me to no end.

HC supporters have repeatedly dismissed Bernie's record by claiming it was easy to support lgbt rights because he lived in Vermont.

Trust me, it wasn't.

There was one hell of a backlash against those of us who supported marriage equality.

The anti-civil rights crusaders brought in the big guns and they set up shop. They spent a lot of money trying to intimidate little old Vermont and it backfired on them.

But that doesn't mean there wasn't collateral damage.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #72)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:06 PM

77. I've researched that history

and I agree with you, it wasn't easy even though Patrick Leahy supported the CU bill in 2000 as did the mayor of Burlington and, eventually, Bernie Sanders was willing to go on the record.

Howard Dean did not even have a public ceremony for the signing of that historic bill...so we are agreed on this point.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #77)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:09 PM

79. Yes, Dean's decision to not have a public ceremony was disappointing

But we danced in the streets anyway.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #79)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:19 PM

86. Can't blame you for that... :)

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #86)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:20 PM

89. It was one hell of a party!

Wish you could have been there!


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #89)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:38 PM

101. We thought that we were going to have a similar party in Maine in 2009

I volunteered there for the No On One campaign but it wasn't to be...too soon...

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #101)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:44 PM

104. But as of this year voters can no longer deny you the right to marry the person you love.

We need to work on ending all forms of discrimination against lgbt people.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #104)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:51 PM

109. Remember, the EEOC has, in effect

issued rules that state that sexual orientation discrimination IS sex discrimination and against the law (the EEOC had already issued guidelines to this effect for transfolk)

I would rather that a fully T-inclusive ENDA were passed but big kudos to the Obama Administration for that.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #109)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:55 PM

111. Oh Obama does get big kudos from me for that and his other stances against bigotry.

I may disagree with him on some issues but I've never regretted throwing all my support behind him in 2008 and 2012.

And poor as I was I sent money to him after hearing him speak at the DNC convention in 2004.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #111)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:08 PM

115. Here's a secret

You began to hear the word about Obama being the first black president around these parts as early as the late 1990's.

In the primary against Bobby Rush that Obama lost in 2000, Obama KILLED Rush with regard to white voters...that's when the national Democrats really took a look at Obama

That's when they redid his state Senate seat and the rest is history.

Many people have said that they never believed that there would be a black president in their lifetime. I didn't believe that...and after that convention speech in 2004...I knew it.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #115)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:18 PM

117. When I heard him speak in 2004 I thought maybe...

I discussed it the next day with coworkers and none of us thought it was possible but we all knew he was going places.

True story: the night he was elected we were camping in the Smokies but stopped at a Walmart to get supplies before heading back to our tent. The closest one was in a black neighborhood and we got there an hour after the announcement was made. I was the only white face in that store but I wasn't the only human with tears in my eyes and a big grin on my face.

I'll never forget it. I only wish my mom had lived long enough to see the first black president get elected.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #117)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:32 PM

120. After Ohio was called, I asked my friend did she want to jump on

the -el and go down to Grant Park but she said that she doesn't like big crowds.

My boss at that time is an acquaintance of Obama from back in the 1990's and he is in a picture near the stage where Obama gave his election night speech.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #69)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:55 PM

112. Bernie was concerned about the Federal government overturning the laws ALLOWING...

 

civil unions and same-sex marriage.

At that moment in time, it was feeling dangerously close to finding ourselves living in a US that resembled Margaret Atwood's "A Handmaid's tale".

Bernie was thinking in terms of defending existing rights in the debate.



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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #68)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:01 PM

74. When Sanders said that he supported civil unions as a state's rights issue...

His position in 2006 was, based on whatever each state determined, that the country as a whole was not yet in a position to achieve full marriage equality.

At that time, he was leaving LGBT people living in states without marriage equality and civil unions out in the cold, right?

He was making a trade-off in that vid from 2006, by not calling out for a federally mandated marriage equality law, politicians tend to do things like that.

Your point was that Sanders has always been a champion for LGBT rights... No one is disputing this. But if you can't face the fact that he's also capable of making political trade offs, based on whatever situation the country is in at the time, maybe you ought to rethink some things.


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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #74)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:04 PM

76. I'm not going to argue against a strawman.

Get some actual evidence that he didn't support marriage equality in 2006 and I'll look at it.

Speculation about intent is not proof.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #76)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:16 PM

84. I'm using his own words...

In 2006, he stood firmly for civil unions as a state's rights issue. In THAT moment, he didn't put a federally mandated marriage equality on the table. Others may have at the time, but he believed in 2006 that he had a good reason to not do that himself.

This isn't a criticism, of the guy, it's an observation that he makes political stands... Stands that are probably going to evolve over time, based on exigent circumstances.

He can change his mind on things, just like any of us. He's another human being.

I think that it's unrealistic to believe that he's always had the perfect position on every single subject in his entire political career.


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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #84)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:20 PM

87. Strawman:

I think that it's unrealistic to believe that he's always had the perfect position on every single subject in his entire political career.


I know he's not perfect and I don't agree with him on every issue.

I am supporting Bernie Sanders for the Democratic nomination and I will continue to challenge posters who make false claims about his record.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #87)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:27 PM

92. What false claim are we making here?

That he's a political animal?

That his positions may change as circumstances change?

That perhaps he may feel it necessary to NOT take the most lefty-ish stand any particular issue at all times?

Why are you in this argument? If you don't agree with him on every single issue, what's the point of confronting someone else who's doing the exact same thing?

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #92)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:29 PM

95. Because someone claimed he didn't support marriage equality in 2006.

And they didn't back it up.

Opinions are not facts.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #95)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:35 PM

98. Kev pointed out that in 2006, Sanders stood for civil unions as a states rights issue...

A position AT THAT TIME of potentially leaving some LGBT people out in the cold while preserving civil unions for others.

Did I mention that he said that 2006?

If he was willing to risk civil unions in some states, for a federally mandated marriage equality law (and, yes, he did point out that he opposed DOMA, but that's just the lowest rung on the ladder before we can get to full marriage equality), then perhaps he should have said it... In 2006, after he was asked that debate question.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #98)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:39 PM

102. But he then went on to make a positive claim.

I'm not telling him that he's wrong to have that opinion, I'm simply asking for evidence of his claim.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #102)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:48 PM

107. He quite clearly said that he didn't want the feds to overturn state laws...

Because he believed that marriage was a states issue...

So, if that was the case in 2006, what about the states that didn't have either civil unions or marriage equality?

Is this, based on whatever state they're living in, the right to marry is for some and not for others... in 2006?

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #107)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:52 PM

110. sigh...

I'm not going to try to disprove your theory anymore, I have made my case and if I can't change your mind then so be it.

This kind of debate is exhausting and there are other issues I'd like to discuss here on the DU.

Plus I'm serving my first tour on MIRT and have been neglecting my duties.

It's been a pleasure, MrScorpio.



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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #110)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:57 PM

114. It's not a theory, it's his own words... In 2006.

Anyway, have fun on MIRT and go git 'em, Tiger!

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #74)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:14 PM

82. This fact here

he's also capable of making political trade offs, based on whatever situation the country is in at the time


actually makes me a little more inclined to vote for Sanders.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #82)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:18 PM

85. Well, hell yeah...

He seems to be a bit more politically realistic than some others we both know.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #52)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:19 PM

56. Bernie Sanders was asked, in the Vermont Senate debate of 2006

whether he supported the extension of gay marriage beyond Massachusetts.

Bernie Sanders said that he thought gay marriage was a "state issue" and he did NOT say that he supported same-sex marriage rights even for Vermont.

By 2006 there were politicians that did give full-throated support for same-sex marriage rights including a majority of the California legislature.

Bernie Sanders WAS NOT one of those politicians in 2006. The evidence is provided in the video.

I don't have much of a problem with Sanders' answer here, actually.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #56)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:22 PM

58. Again there is no "evidence" that he didn't support marriage equality in 2006.

There is evidence that he did - his vote against DOMA in 1996.

You're entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #58)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:29 PM

63. When the state of Minnesota turned down an anti-gay marriage amendment in 2012

the legislature still had to vote FOR marriage equality in 2013.

Sanders COULD have supported gay marriage then. ( At least Sanders didn't lie about it, as Axelrod states that Obama did). But we don't know whether Sanders supported it or not, based on the evidence of that video.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #63)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:30 PM

64. Where is your evidence that Bernie didn't support marriage equality in 2006?

I have proof he voted against DOMA in 1996.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #64)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:38 PM

65. Where's your evidence that he did?

Carol Moseley Braun voted against DOMA in 1996 and supported same-sex marriage equality in 2004 when she ran for President.

Dennis Kucinch supported same-sex marriage in 2008 and had no problem saying it.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #65)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:43 PM

67. Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=592595

If you could have found something to prove he didn't support same sex marriage you would have posted it.



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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #67)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:01 PM

73. But you can't say that he did.

For example, Sanders' former senior advisor, Anthony Pollina, was for same-sex marriage when the CU bill was being discussed in Vermont in 2000.

Sanders didn't support Pollina in his gubentorial bid.


Now, Sanders may have had other reasons for not supporting Pollina in 2000 but that CU debate in Vermont was very contentious. People lost legislative seats over that vote.

I simply fail to see how simply posting a video clip of Sanders in a debate for a US Senate seat constitutes "a smear."

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #73)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:02 PM

75. Your claim that he didn't support marriage equality without any supporting evidence is a smear.

And one more time, speculation about intent is not evidence.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #35)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:09 PM

78. there were plenty of politicians who publicly opposed marriage equality and voted against DOMA

John Kerry, Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein, John Conyers, and many others. It would hardly have been a unique position.

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Response to dsc (Reply #78)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:10 PM

80. Still not proof Bernie didn't support marriage equality in 2006.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #80)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:11 PM

81. but his anti DOMA vote is no proof that he did

and the video is pretty strong evidence that he didn't. He position was basically Kerry's from 2004 when he opposed marriage equality while running for President.

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Response to dsc (Reply #81)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:14 PM

83. You guys made the claim that he didn't support marriage equality in 2006 and you can't back it up.

It's not my job to disprove your theory.

Take it up with the journalists who did the research and wrote the articles about Bernie because I'm not playing this game with you anymore.

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Response to dsc (Reply #78)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:38 PM

100. For the fucking love of God you should know better. I don't even criticize Hillary for being about

 

the last Democrat of name to finally support marriage equality. She was very slow. Hesitant. But I do not run around DU trying to paint her as anti gay. Why? Because she's not and because I for one do not think we have allies to burn. I'm not interested in the stopwatch for Hillary, nor for Bernie but Bernie was way, way ahead.
I sent money to Sanders in the early 90s because he was being very actively helpful to LGBT causes during that very pressing time. I've never even been to Vermont. He had my support because he was giving me his, all those years ago. At that time, Hillary was also taking enormous heat for supporting LGBT causes. Straight folks like that, the early birds who took the heat, I'm not going to try to mar them from our side after they have taken so much flack from the right wing for us. Fuck that.

This thread is a disgrace.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #100)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:31 PM

119. I am not saying Bernie is anti gay

but the fact is no one here or anywhere else has found any statement made publicly supporting marriage equality before Vermont got it in 2009. Now if you have something then bring it forward. But the simple fact is merely voting against DOMA isn't the same as supporting marriage equality. Many politicians both voted against DOMA and were officially against marriage equality. Kerry did that, so did Boxer and so on. Virtually none of the straight politicians who voted against DOMA said the supported marriage equality. If you don't believe me go to the congressional record which I sited twice so you can find the link.

I don't have a problem with having had that position back then. But I do have a problem with him having had that position back then but his supporters saying he had a different position than he did and then being called a disgrace for having the audacity to point out that fact.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #30)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:42 PM

37. ba

bam.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:33 PM

28. Seriously? He didn't want the feds to be able to override the states who made ssm legal.

I know what you're doing and why you're doing it but exploiting lgbt rights in a quest to get even with Bernie's supporters has been done already.

Don't take my word for it, read what a gay DUer thinks of Bernie's support:

Pre-emptive: Sanders doesn't have a problem with LGBTers

Since the man's social justice bona fides are being turned into a weakness by surrogates, and we've been treated to his vast problems with African Americans, women, and now Latinos, I just wanted to get out in front before you see someone like Joe Solmonese on TV telling everyone that Bernie Sanders doesn't care enough about LGBT people.

Bernie Sanders is one of the finest politicians in American history when it comes to LGBT rights. His opponents cannot even compare themselves or their records with a straight face.

So before we experience yet another part of the Democratic coalition divided up as a weapon instead of a valued community, I just wanted to note that Sanders will never have a problem with the LGBT community.

We owe him a lot of gratitude for sticking up for us when it was not the easy or popular thing to do.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251563640



And then there's the fact that his votes prove he was in favour of marriage equality before 2006:

32 Years Before Marriage Equality, Bernie Sanders Fought For Gay Rights



But these are only very recent developments. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton may be champions of same-sex marriage now, but you don’t have to go far back to find a time when they weren’t. And hey, we’re happy to have their evolved support.

Not only did Sanders vote against the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996 which defined marriage as between one man and one woman, signed into law by then-president Bill Clinton — an unpopular position then — a look back at Sanders’ political career shows consistent support of the gay rights movement. Even when it was more than just unpopular, it was downright controversial.

“In our democratic society, it is the responsibility of government to safeguard civil liberties and civil rights — especially the freedom of speech and expression,” Sanders wrote later in a memo. “In a free society, we must all be committed to the mutual respect of each others lifestyle.”

...

“It is my very strong view that a society which proclaims human freedom as its goal, as the United States does, must work unceasingly to end discrimination against all people. I am happy to say that this past year, in Burlington, we have made some important progress by adopting an ordinance which prohibits discrimination in housing. This law will give legal protection not only to welfare recipients, and families with children, the elderly and the handicapped — but to the gay community as well.”

http://www.queerty.com/32-years-before-marriage-equality-bernie-sanders-fought-for-gay-rights-20150719


On LGBT Rights, Bernie Leads and Hillary Follows

Of course, Clinton has since evolved on LGBT rights, as many have. That's wonderful. But the problem is, she only came out in support of marriage equality after it was not politically risky to do so. In fact, by 2013 - the year Clinton announced her full support for marriage equality - Democratic support for same-sex marriage was the norm, not the exception.

On such an important moral issue that affects my life and the lives of thousands of other Americans, making decisions in this manner is rather despicable. Additionally, Clinton's habit of doing what polls deem politically popular is the reason why so many voters find her inauthentic. Now, if Clinton were the only option for the Democratic presidential nomination, I would understand why we should support her despite these flaws.

But she isn't the only option.

Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, the longest-serving Independent in the history of Congress, is also running for the nomination. And unlike Clinton, his record on LGBT rights is historically excellent.

Sanders voted against DOMA, one of the few members of Congress to do so, at a time when such a stance was not politically popular. Four years after DOMA passed, Sanders helped champion Vermont's decision in 2000 to become the first state to legalize same-sex civil unions. This set a national precedent for LGBT equality achieved via legislative means. In 2009, when Vermont became the first state to allow marriage equality through legislative action rather than a court ruling, Sanders expressed his support once again. Truly, Sanders has been a real leader on LGBT rights, even if this leadership isn't recognized in the way that Clinton's current support is.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-novak/on-lgbt-rights-bernie-lea_b_7662682.html


Bernie Sanders Was for Full Gay Equality 40 Years Ago

Today’s Supreme Court decision was a monumental moment in American history, as it guaranteed the right for gays and lesbians to get married and established full marriage equality.

Many politicians offered their words of support, including President Obama and Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.

Yet it is important to remember that Obama and Clinton both opposed marriage equality as late as early 2012. It is a testament to the work of thousands of activists over decades that the political class was pulled towards supporting equality.

There is however one prominent politician who did not wait so long to call for full gay equality: Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)

In a letter he published in the early 1970’s, when he was a candidate for governor of Vermont from the Liberty Union Party, Sanders invoked freedom to call for the abolition of all laws related to homosexuality:


http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/bernie-sanders-was-full-gay-equality-40-years-ago



Sanders: I was ahead of the curve on gay rights

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Saturday he has been waiting for the nation to catch up to his support for same-sex marriage.

Sanders’ remarks come a day after Friday’s landmark 5-4 Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage nationwide.

He argued he was well ahead of the historic decision, unlike Hillary Clinton, his main rival for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination.

...

Sanders at the time served in the House of Representatives, which voted 342-67 in favor of DOMA. The Senate voted 85-14 in favor, before former President Bill Clinton signed it into law.

“That was an anti-gay marriage piece of legislation,” he added of the law that defined marriage at the federal level as the coupling of one man and one woman.

Sanders on Saturday praised Americans for creating greater opportunities for same-sex couples. Friday’s Supreme Court ruling, he charged, was not possible without national pressure for gay rights.

“No one here should think for one second this starts with the Supreme Court,” Sanders said.

“It starts at the grassroots level in all 50 states,” he said. “The American people want to end discrimination in all its forms.”


http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/246370-sanders-i-was-ahead-of-the-curve-on-gay-rights


Bernie Sanders was decades ahead of the country on gay rights and ending the war on drugs

Most Americans now support legally allowing gay and lesbian relationships, same-sex marriage, and personal marijuana use after decades of shifting public opinion. But one Democratic candidate for president, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, was calling for many of these changes decades ago.

In a 1972 letter to a local newspaper — which was recently resurfaced by Chelsea Summers at the New Republic — Sanders wrote that he supported abolishing "all laws dealing with abortion, drugs, sexual behavior (adultery, homosexuality, etc.)" as part of his campaign for Vermont governor:

These stances were far removed from public opinion at the time, according to Gallup surveys on marijuana and gay and lesbian rights. In 1972, 81 percent of Americans said marijuana should be illegal — which suggests even more would favor the prohibition of more dangerous drugs like cocaine and heroin. In 1977, the earliest year of polling data, 43 percent of Americans said gay and lesbian relations between consenting adults should not be legal, while 43 percent said they should be legal.


...

But it took decades for the American public to come around to majority support on these issues: It wasn't until 2013 that a majority of Americans supported marijuana legalization, the early 2000s that most consistently responded in favor of legal gay and lesbian relations, and 2011 that a majority first reported backing same-sex marriage rights.

Sanders has carried many of these positions to this day. He was one of the few federal lawmakers to vote against the Defense of Marriage Act, the federal ban on same-sex marriages, in the 1990s. And while he told Time's Jay Newton-Small in March that he has no current stance on marijuana legalization (but backs medical marijuana), he characterized the war on drugs as costly and destructive.

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/7/8905905/sanders-drugs-gay-rights


Bernie Sanders' Views On Gay Marriage Show He's Been A Supporter For A Long Time

Now that he's officially announced he will seek the Democratic nomination for president and challenge Hillary Clinton, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders will be talking about his positions on major issues on the campaign trail, and one very big issue he has championed for years is gay marriage. Sanders, unlike some of his potential Republican opponents, seems like he would not turn down an invitation to a gay wedding (and he might actually get invited to one).

In 1996, then-Representative Sanders voted against the Defense of Marriage Act, which barred recognition of gay marriage at the federal level (DOMA was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 2013). Sanders' and his home state of Vermont were the first to legalize same-sex unions in 2000, at first recognizing them as civil unions. Gay marriage has been legal in Vermont since 2009, and as The New York Times reported, Vermont was the first state to pass legislation in support of same-sex marriage, rather than in reaction to a court ruling.

On Tuesday, as the Supreme Court took up the issue of gay marriage, Sanders issued a statement on his website reaffirming his support, saying gay Americans in every state should be allowed to marry.

Of course all citizens deserve equal rights. It’s time for the Supreme Court to catch up to the American people and legalize gay marriage.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/79951-bernie-sanders-views-on-gay-marriage-show-hes-been-a-supporter-for-a-long-time


Is Bernie Sanders the Most LGBT-Friendly Candidate?

Bernie Sanders, the longest-serving independent member of Congress, is officially seeking the Democratic nomination for president in 2016, the Vermont senator announced in an email to supporters this morning.

"People should not underestimate me," Sanders told the Associated Press in an interview that broke the news of his candidacy Wednesday night. "I've run outside of the two-party system, defeating Democrats and Republicans, taking on big-money candidates and, you know, I think the message that has resonated in Vermont is a message that can resonate all over this country."

The self-described "Democratic socialist" wants to challenge the business-as-usual trend of big money in politics that he says dominates the current candidates — including Hillary Clinton.

The thrust of Sanders's campaign thus far — like his political career as the mayor of Burlington, Vt., 16 years in the U.S. House of Representatives, and the past seven in the U.S. Senate — has focused on supporting working-class Americans through elevated taxes on the wealthy and correcting income inequality "which is now reaching obscene levels," he told the AP.

But Sanders has also been a steadfast and reliable supporter of LGBT equality, supporting the Employment Non-Discrimination Act when it passed the Senate in 2013 and even calling on President Obama to evolve already and support marriage equality in 2011. He's a cosponsor of the federal LGBT-inclusive Student Non-Discrimination Act and has consistently voted against bills seeking to amend the Constitution to ban same-sex marriage, while cosponsoring a bill that would repeal the remaining portions of the so-called Defense of Marriage Act. Sanders has a perfect score of 100 percent on the Human Rights Campaign's latest Congressional Equality Index.

http://www.advocate.com/politics/election/2015/04/30/bernie-sanders-most-lgbt-friendly-candidate


And before you whip out the article from sevendays that's already been debunked too, there was no interview with Bernie.


There's no there there, but nice try.


You get a cookie.




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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #28)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:41 PM

36. I know all of that

but by 2006, there were politicians and even presidential candidates that were giving full-throated support to nationwide marriage equality.

Bernie Sanders was not one of those politicians.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #36)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:44 PM

39. He doesn't need to he voted against DOMA in 1996. He was for marriage equality then.

I know people are still pushing the Not Good Enough Bernie meme but you'll have to do better than speculation.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #36)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:45 PM

41. total crap and everyone knows it

but A for gut searing, fly in the face of reality effort

seriously, you are really trying

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #36)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:28 PM

94. Gee Kev, in 2006 the only Presidential contender to support marriage equality was Dennis Kucinich

 

All of the rest, including Obama and Clinton were weeping about Sanctity and preaching civil unions for those wretched gay people. John Edwards was having an affair AND preaching about Sanctity of marriage and those terrible gays.
So name some of these candidates for President, plural that were giving such strong equality statements in 06 or 08 or even 2010. Name them or admit to bullshit manufacture.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #94)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:46 PM

106. Carol Moseley Braun (my former Senator and a hot mess) and Al Sharpton

campaigned on it during their presidential runs in 2004.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #106)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:55 PM

113. Yes and I love them for it, but like Dennis none of them were candidates on my ballot my the time

 

the Primary arrived. So that qualifies the use of them as examples of how candidates behaved in 96. They were cutting edge candidates who gained zero traction. Love them for it, but they do not represent the times or the actual contending candidates.
In 08 Obama was 'God in the mix, my dear brother McClurkin, Sanctity, Sacraments, Rick Warren is America's Minister'. Hillary was the same. Edwards was the same only with a mistress and extra talk about his Deacon Daddy.

I am bothered that posters on DU who usually attack LGBT activists are pretending to be on our side in this attack on Bernie, who has always supported us. It's just not right.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #113)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:21 PM

118. Here's my thing

See, I travel the gay blogs where FOR YEARS Hillary Clinton has been compared favorably to Barack Obama, as if Hillary Clinton were better on various issues even during the 2008 primaries.

I don't need for my politicians to be heroes, I need for politicians to be damn good politicians as well as "fierce advoctaes".

There is no need to elevate Bernie Sanders to the throne of civil rights diva-ship that many of his supporters claim for him (and I'm black as well, so...let's simply not go there).

Bernie Sanders is a quality politician (in some ways, remarkable, in fact) who has taken stances that benefit people like me and he is a reliable vote on those issues (unlike Hillary Clinton)

I can research his record and make decisions for myself. All of the Sanders' hagiography that I read on a daily basis gets as nerve-wrecking as some of the Obama hagiography, at least to me.

(As if I, of all people, need for anyone to tell me about Barack Obama, for example).

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #118)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 05:00 PM

122. I can research his record and make decisions for myself.

 

Right decisions.... and

Wrong ones too!

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #28)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:43 PM

38. nicely done

cookies all around, i say!

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #38)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:45 PM

40. Thank you, they're going to have to do better than I think = it's true.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #40)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:47 PM

44. do you mean

A does equal Q just cuz i say so?





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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #28)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:49 PM

45. Fellow Bernistas: Feel free to copy and use my post verbatim every time someone pulls this bullshit.

Bookmark it and don't give up!

Go Bernie!



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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #28)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:19 PM

57. I love you b m u s!

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Response to Zorra (Reply #57)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:23 PM

60. Right back atcha, Zorra.



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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #28)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:25 PM

91. Prism has been demonstrated to be very precient.

 

nt

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #91)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:27 PM

93. Prism totally rocks.

And so do you, Blue.

You have a memory like a steel trap and a real talent for calling out hypocrisy.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #93)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:32 PM

96. I remember because the casual bullshit people say about LGBT is memorably painful.

 

nt

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #96)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:36 PM

99. Yes, it is.

And I'm sincerely sorry for everything my lgbt brothers and sisters have to endure on DU.

Every single bigot on DU should be ts'd.

There is no excuse.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #28)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:46 PM

105. You forgot one:

 

http://www.advocate.com/politics/election/2015/04/30/bernie-sanders-most-lgbt-friendly-candidate

But Sanders has also been a steadfast and reliable supporter of LGBT equality, supporting the Employment Non-Discrimination Act when it passed the Senate in 2013 and even calling on President Obama to evolve already and support marriage equality in 2011. He's a cosponsor of the federal LGBT-inclusive Student Non-Discrimination Act and has consistently voted against bills seeking to amend the Constitution to ban same-sex marriage, while cosponsoring a bill that would repeal the remaining portions of the so-called Defense of Marriage Act. Sanders has a perfect score of 100 percent on the Human Rights Campaign's latest Congressional Equality Index.

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #105)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:49 PM

108. Fixed it, thanks!


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Response to Chitown Kev (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 03:22 PM

90. Bernie Sanders has been one of the strongest straight elected voices for LGBT equality since he

 

first entered politics. You are being obtuse and absurd, perhaps because you are not well informed. That would be your fault. Knowledge is your most important tool in life. Go get some. You claim to be gay but you seem utterly without any roots in the community or knowledge of community history. That's sad.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #90)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:10 PM

116. lol

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #116)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:52 PM

121. Your posts are empty and meaningless.

 

Off to the ignore list for you.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #90)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 01:26 AM

132. Kickety kicking this because once again someone is claiming Bernie opposed same sex marriage.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #132)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 05:17 AM

136. But I never claimed that he opposed it

My claim was that he wasn't willing to go on the record and say that he supported nationwide same-sex marriage equality in 2006, so I would have to disagree with the diarist on the other thread.

Did Sanders play politics on the issue? Yes, in that respect I would agree with that other diarist.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #136)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 05:20 AM

137. No, you didn't. The blogger at Slate and MADem made that claim.

You've been honest about what he said, Chitown Kev.

I just thought that if people read what was already discussed here they would realize that the other thread is bullshit.

That's why I didn't respond directly to you in this thread because you aren't claiming Bernie opposed same sex marriage.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 08:55 PM

123. Bernie has a great record of support for LGBTQ people

The Reuters/Ipsos tracking poll has Bernie leading among the community with 57% of the vote, albeit with a tiny sample size:

http://polling.reuters.com/#!response/TR131/type/smallest/filters/Z27:2|3|4,PARTY_ID_:1/dates/20150808-20150914/collapsed/false

But I'm in the young queer activist community, and Bernie has really caught fire in recent months. A lot of us were OK with Hillary, but Bernie's strong record of support has swayed a lot of people. It seems awfully curious that due to shifts in recent primary support among LGBTQ people, there are now attacks on what makes Bernie so strong in the LGBTQ community.

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Response to DemocraticWing (Reply #123)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 09:12 PM

124. It's nice to see that

I've been sick of some of the downright Hillary-worship in the LGBTQ community for years...I mean, she's OK, but some of the over-the top pro-Hillary comments on blogs have gotten nauseating although...I get it.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #124)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 09:50 PM

125. I think Hillary, Bernie, or Martin would all be fine for LGBTQ people honestly.

But all will need their feet held to the fire. Obama has a great legacy on equal rights, but it took a lot of activist work to get him to make the right moves, and it will no matter who our next President is.

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Response to DemocraticWing (Reply #125)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 10:05 PM

128. Yep.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 10:00 PM

126. I don't think Sanders has ever opposed SSM

Now, it just wasn't an issue, and like many people hadn't taken a position for or against it. At some point between 2000 and 2009, Sanders came out for SSM.

However, he has a great record from before that of saying there shouldn't be laws against homosexuality in 1972, proclaiming a gay pride parade as mayor in 1985, opposing DADT, and voting against DOMA.

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Response to jfern (Reply #126)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 10:04 PM

127. It's very possible that Sanders never opposed SSM

but not opposing it and supporting is two somewhat different things.

"Supporting" SSM means, at least to me, being proactive about getting it done.

"Not opposing" seems to, to me, rather passive.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Reply #127)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 10:32 PM

130. Well for comparison, Hillary was a SSM opponent in early 2013

I don't know if Sanders has been pro SSM longer than Chafee or O' Malley, but it's clear that of those and Biden, Hillary has been anti-SSM the most recent.

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Response to jfern (Reply #130)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 10:44 PM

131. Well...to some extent

Last edited Tue Sep 15, 2015, 04:44 AM - Edit history (1)

Hillary was under constraints as a member of the Obama Administration, even though she gave some fabulous speeches supporting LGBT's and even promoted benefits for her SD employees, etc...still, Obama gets some credit for that.

Biden is all talk now but he, too, voted for DOMA in 1996 and he too, could not say that he was pro-SSM as a 2008 candidate...granted, Biden did "kick Obama's shins under the table" a bit in 2012 but, in reality, Biden is not all that much better than Hillary.

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Response to Chitown Kev (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 10:15 PM

129. Oh, Jesus

 

Knock it off.

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