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Sun Sep 13, 2015, 09:59 AM

No. It's not "hate". It's DISAPPOINTMENT.

Last edited Sun Sep 13, 2015, 06:20 PM - Edit history (2)

It's DISAPPOINTING to be told that one's country's military influence is to be expanded and developed after over a decade of consequences from a disastrous, cruel and bullying intervention in the history of an innocent people.

It's DISAPPOINTING to be told that one is supposed to vote for someone based on what they are instead of what they intend to do.

It's DISAPPOINTING to hear people invent baseless perception problems of an honest candidate when they are alone in an entire system driven by phoniness and dishonesty.

It's DISAPPOINTING to see fellow lefties "play the game" that was originally invented by Republicans and patting themselves on the back for scoring points in a sickly, neurotic, anti-human process.

It's DISAPPOINTING to hear grown adults talk about whole demographics as if they are populated exclusively by mindless lumps of Play-Doh incapable of listening to anyone or anything that doesn't remind them of themselves.

It's DISAPPOINTING to make honest attempts to clear the way for better politics only to be confronted with a tsunami of babyish riffs on the theme of "you have whatever personality flaw I need to pretend you have to make my behaviour look reasonable to myself and your ideas dismissable as fantasy".

And above all (and I say this as s Scotsman in Edinburgh with no real right to say it to any of you good people...)

It's DISAPPOINTING, CRUELLY SO, to see the wonderful nation I have admired and respected for so long, the source of so much powerful thought and beautiful acheivement for decades (you may think you're a country of fascists and righties, hah! BULLSHIT - the Constitution, the Civil Rights Movement, Stonewall, the reconstruction of Europe post WWII, "One step for Man, a giant leap for Mankind", Iraq Vets Against the War (there is no similar movement of equivalent size and significance anywhere in Europe!), Chomsky... I could go on and on) abandon itself over and over again to exactly the same point-scoring, inward-looking, antidemocratic, prejudiced, class-and-character-based cynicism that its inhabitants crossed oceans to escape!!!

It's the same stupid, oppressive garbage that's plagued Europe for centuries. It's just better lit and on a bigger stage.

MORE screwy bank shenenigans. MORE wars. MORE faux politicians. MORE faux concern. MORE shadowy campaign finance. MORE posturing. MORE lies.

It's DISAPPOINTING.

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Arrow 98 replies Author Time Post
Reply No. It's not "hate". It's DISAPPOINTMENT. (Original post)
sibelian Sep 2015 OP
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #1
roguevalley Sep 2015 #19
beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #22
840high Sep 2015 #56
reformist2 Sep 2015 #85
artislife Sep 2015 #2
Autumn Sep 2015 #3
sibelian Sep 2015 #7
roguevalley Sep 2015 #18
appalachiablue Sep 2015 #42
sibelian Sep 2015 #53
Baitball Blogger Sep 2015 #4
sibelian Sep 2015 #5
Baitball Blogger Sep 2015 #13
MisterP Sep 2015 #28
Baitball Blogger Sep 2015 #36
MisterP Sep 2015 #37
Baitball Blogger Sep 2015 #39
MisterP Sep 2015 #40
mdbl Sep 2015 #78
chervilant Sep 2015 #57
daleanime Sep 2015 #6
SidDithers Sep 2015 #8
rhett o rick Sep 2015 #59
SidDithers Sep 2015 #63
L0oniX Sep 2015 #9
treestar Sep 2015 #10
7962 Sep 2015 #31
treestar Sep 2015 #47
7962 Sep 2015 #49
sarge43 Sep 2015 #11
sibelian Sep 2015 #12
TexasMommaWithAHat Sep 2015 #14
azurnoir Sep 2015 #15
jalan48 Sep 2015 #16
appalachiablue Sep 2015 #43
cheapdate Sep 2015 #17
appalachiablue Sep 2015 #45
Duval Sep 2015 #20
elleng Sep 2015 #21
sibelian Sep 2015 #52
elleng Sep 2015 #65
merrily Sep 2015 #90
dorkzilla Sep 2015 #23
sibelian Sep 2015 #54
dorkzilla Sep 2015 #62
MrMickeysMom Sep 2015 #24
Demeter Sep 2015 #25
sibelian Sep 2015 #98
LWolf Sep 2015 #26
SalviaBlue Sep 2015 #27
SixString Sep 2015 #29
snagglepuss Sep 2015 #30
sibelian Sep 2015 #51
cantbeserious Sep 2015 #32
pscot Sep 2015 #33
MuseRider Sep 2015 #34
in_cog_ni_to Sep 2015 #35
Uncle Joe Sep 2015 #38
Live and Learn Sep 2015 #41
Hatchling Sep 2015 #44
WillyT Sep 2015 #46
Enthusiast Sep 2015 #48
CharlotteVale Sep 2015 #50
TheJames Sep 2015 #55
840high Sep 2015 #58
rhett o rick Sep 2015 #60
MannyGoldstein Sep 2015 #61
nolabels Sep 2015 #84
MannyGoldstein Sep 2015 #86
nolabels Sep 2015 #87
sibelian Sep 2015 #93
MannyGoldstein Sep 2015 #95
MerryBlooms Sep 2015 #64
hifiguy Sep 2015 #66
liberal_at_heart Sep 2015 #67
Hollingsworth Sep 2015 #68
reflection Sep 2015 #69
marym625 Sep 2015 #70
sibelian Sep 2015 #71
marym625 Sep 2015 #73
Thespian2 Sep 2015 #72
Scootaloo Sep 2015 #74
mrdmk Sep 2015 #75
GitRDun Sep 2015 #76
RealistComments Sep 2015 #77
mdbl Sep 2015 #79
sabrina 1 Sep 2015 #80
sibelian Sep 2015 #97
haikugal Sep 2015 #81
sibelian Sep 2015 #96
davidpdx Sep 2015 #82
sibelian Sep 2015 #91
Skwmom Sep 2015 #83
raouldukelives Sep 2015 #88
d_legendary1 Sep 2015 #89
sibelian Sep 2015 #92
d_legendary1 Sep 2015 #94

Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 10:03 AM

1. Damn! Nailed it again, sibelian!

MORE screwy bank shenenigans. MORE wars. MORE faux politicians. MORE faux concern. MORE shadowy campaign finance. MORE posturing. MORE lies.


BRAVO!!!



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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #1)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 11:23 AM

19. this is an important statement for many reasons but also because it comes from other

shores and has distance in the emotion delivering it. Thank you, Sibelian. You did us all a solid.

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #19)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 11:29 AM

22. Exactly!

sibelian knows we're not the fringe left who just hate Hillary and think Bernie's a messiah.

He gets it!

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #1)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 04:12 PM

56. ...^ that

 

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 08:40 AM

85. We need to reassert the concept of America as a land of bold, new, progressive, liberal, ideas.

Always changing. Never afraid to talk about new problems, and how the old ways aren't working anymore. And with conviction and level-headedness, not unreasonably. Passionate, but reasonable. This is what our politics used to be like, and can be again, once we rid ourselves of the corporate money stifling and smothering our political discourse.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 10:03 AM

2. That's it in a nutshell.

 

It is like watching a baby play peekaboo...they believe if they cover their eyes, you cannot see them.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 10:08 AM

3. It's disappointing for someone I like to tell me she will let me know her position on something

that is important to me after she is elected. It's also insulting my intelligence but that a matter for a different discussion.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #3)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 10:29 AM

7. I just can;t believe how everyone just accepts it now... not just in the US...


... it's become accepted in the UK as well. In fact, I think it's often worse in the UK. And in Australia...

Well, I guess I'm still smarting from Cameron and his bunch of cretinous, amoral wankers getting in again. But, hey. Jeremy's up and about and they're throwing everything they can at him.

Yes. It's long past time they treated us all with the common courtesy of informing us of their intentions as a bare minimum.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #7)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 11:20 AM

18. I wish I could rec this ten million times because this is the articulation of what most of us feel

about the mindlessness and personal nature of the opposition to Bernie. I wish I could hug you, I feel that strongly about this op.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #7)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 01:54 PM

42. R & R. Great post. Very pleased with Corbyn's win. What's your view of the next election

in Scotland? I like old Britain and studied there a bit before the Thatcher, Cameron et al conservative destruction.

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Response to appalachiablue (Reply #42)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 03:40 PM

53. Have to say I'm really not sure.


If Labour finally get their act together and stop going through the motions in Scotland they're in with a chance... They were booted out almost entirely through their palable sense of entitlement. I don't think even they realised how long they'd been relying on Scottish seats. But we're a funny lot, us haggis-shaggers. The great sea change to the SNP wasn't entirely an anomalous thing, normally we're quite predictable and then WHOOSH we just rip everything up and start again. It's not the first time this has happened. I saw it coming. It's very strange that Labour didn't.

They seriously need to clean up their act in Holyrood. No more games.

I thinkthe SNP is now here to stay. I don't think anyone will be able to deny that. What's interesting is that the two poles are going to be Labour and the SNP fighting over who gets to be more lefty! How often do you see THAT in a small European nation? I'm fair chuffed!

Labour will regain some of it's ground next election, inevitably. If Corbyn avoids being patronising, which is very likely, there will be a chunk of Scottish Labour seats again. The independence question remains unsettled but it can't trundle on forever, if there's another 'no' vote soonish (within a decade), I think it'll probably be put to rest for a long time. There does exist the possibility that we will actually vote yes... That would be very strange, now. The landscape's changed so quickly in Scotland over the last two years it's very hard to say what would follow. Even just before the referendum things were very different from the way they are now. It was a really courteous, friendly referendum, all things considered... I don't think the next one would be. We're getting polarised.

However, the SNP has protected us from fracking, tuition fees etc, people are getting quiteattached to them. They aren't going anywhere.

I'll be voting for them next time.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 10:15 AM

4. The one sentence that should spring from the page:

"It's the same stupid, oppressive garbage that's plagued Europe for centuries. It's just better lit and on a bigger stage. "

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #4)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 10:24 AM

5. THAT'S what gets to me.


I think a lot of American lefties have fallen into the habit of considering their country be be somehow backwards and inherently right wing in terms of political analysis, activity and acheivement in comparison with the various Old Countries. Loads of people in the UK think the same thing. It's utter baldersash! Huge amounts of powerful modern left wing analysis comes from the States!

I believe that America is an amazing country. America has been a beacon for liberalism across the world since its beginning. And I feel so awful that American politicians have allowed their campaign processes to be corrupted with the worst of Europe's habits.

European politics is revolting! Oh, sure, we get to live in a generally more socialist bubble, but we are hideously complacent and most people in advanced European democracies have no idea that Europe as a political area is every bit as anomalous as the rest of the planet. We're just as complicit in our own corrupt systems as everyone else, we just have this idea that ours is somehow under control because we have opinions about it and a slightly above average propensity for satire.

America has shown the way countless times, and I firmly believe that it can and will do so again.


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Response to sibelian (Reply #5)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 11:01 AM

13. We are going through a lot of growing pains that would be totally unnecessary

if we were students of history.

All you have to do is read up on the influence the English church had on government affairs to understand that Theocracy increased the level of misery during the early centuries. People keep referring to the Spanish Inquisition as if it was an outlier. The reality is, that people were being tortured and deprived of life and livelihood in the Anglo isles as well.

Lordie, we talk about our American colonists as if they were escaping a Totalitarian government that was devoid of religious influence. Quite the opposite. It was a form of government that SUPPORTED ONE FORM OF RELIGION AND DID NOT TOLERATE OTHERS. Shocking that Republicans would want to repeat that disastrous era.

But, I get it. If you want absolute power, the easiest way is to reign over the crazies. Then, release the crazies on the population to throw the country into chaos in order to cut down on organized dissent that can challenge the higher ups.

I so get it. Brilliant move throughout the ages. The fact that the same thing is happening in the era of the internet is not a good reflection about the ability of humanity to productively adapt.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #13)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 12:10 PM

28. Britain wasn't actually a *theocracy*--interestingly the Inquisition picked up in viciousness

because it was a tool of the Crown; Spain got what Henry VIII had seceded to obtain

religion's inevitably tied to policy even today and even in, say, the USSR

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Response to MisterP (Reply #28)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 12:48 PM

36. As for England: That is not my understanding based on what I've learned from years of

participating on a British social website. I have even read drafts from English writers who were writing about that era. I wouldn't be able to tell you if the Crown used the Church, or the Church used the Crown, but I do know that England did have its moment in history when the Church had way too much influence in government affairs. It is something that we should make every effort to avoid.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #36)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 12:52 PM

37. who're they citing? which kings and churches, even?

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Response to MisterP (Reply #37)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 01:09 PM

39. Do a search for England Theocracy.

This a perfect social media question. In sum, there is plenty of debate and perspectives on the subject. It won't be difficult to find discussions where people have cited specific moments in England's history that will attest to the Church's influence in England.

Yes, we view England's history as a Monarch, but it had its historical moments where that power was tested by the church. And when I say theocracy, I won't even take the easy way out and say that it was technically a theocracy when Henry the VIII assigned himself as head of the church.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #39)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 01:43 PM

40. actually Kim Davis would see herself much like these people, as a dissident fighting a state

overinvolved in theology and persecuting those not toeing a religious line; everyone wants to be the underdog

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #39)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 05:03 AM

78. They used each other when it was convenient

then fought when their base of influence and power was threatened. To me that sums up the historical church/monarchy relationship.

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Response to MisterP (Reply #28)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 04:12 PM

57. On what do you base that assertion?

Various religious mythologies have been inextricably linked with certain European and Middle Eastern "governments" throughout history, and Elaine Pagels presents a rather succinct discussion of this in her exceptional books, particularly "Adam, Eve, and the Serpent."

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 10:25 AM

6. You really nail it, personally I would change just one word...

for me, I would say Disgusting instead of Disappointing. But that just might be my low blood sugar talking.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 10:35 AM

8. Sometimes...

And sometimes it is hate.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #8)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 04:28 PM

59. I think that some are quick to scream "hate" to justify their self-righteous retributions. nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #59)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 04:41 PM

63. Some of us are able to recognize hate when we see it...

while others, obviously, can't or won't.

Sid

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 10:35 AM

9. Nailed!

 

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 10:39 AM

10. Disappointment is more annoying than hatred

It smacks of thinking you are owed something by somebody. The word annoys me. Maybe because my father used it too much.

It's like you do all you can and then someone is "disappointed." I always identify with the person being judged that way.

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Response to treestar (Reply #10)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 12:25 PM

31. You'd rather someone hate you than be disappointed in you?

 

I dont think I can wrap myself around that.
Hatred can cause war, genocide, discrimination, etc. I doubt that disappointment can do that.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #31)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 02:22 PM

47. It can, but it usually doesn't

I "hate" George Bush but the odds of a genocide against white male Texans, or discrimination against them is likely. Nor is war.

I would say war over Obama/Bernie or genocide ain't happening and is not to be worried about

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Response to treestar (Reply #47)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 02:32 PM

49. And I wouldnt think any Obama or Bernie supporters hated the other.

 

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 10:49 AM

11. "....with no real right to say it..."

On the contrary, real friends tell their friends to stop screwing up.

It's not disappointment; it hurts like hell. We are capable of so much more than this crabbed, mean hatefulness.

Thank you and Alba gu brath.

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Response to sarge43 (Reply #11)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 10:55 AM

12. THANK you, sir.


Peace be upon you!

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 11:02 AM

14. Anxious to see how many recs you get!

Thank you.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 11:04 AM

15. Thank you

you said it so well

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 11:09 AM

16. I think the Democratic Party is about to go through some serious changes.

Obama was able to keep the Party together with 'Hope and Change' but Hillary, if she wins doesn't have the same charisma. The veneer has worn off the Third Way ruse and Americans know Wall St, the big banks and international trade deals aren't the way to a brighter future. Either the Party moves left or millions will abandon it for something new. No, this isn't a "I won't vote for Hillary" statement. It's a simple fact that people like Debbie Schultz need to wake up to-people are fed up with politics as usual and it isn't going to last much longer.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #16)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 01:57 PM

43. +1

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 11:10 AM

17. Excellent post!

Staring at the circus pantomime that is American electoral politics and confronted with the masses of apathetic, disengaged, and incurious Americans who are roused to action only when it involves a fetus, or the threat of boys-kissing-boys, it's easy to be disappointed.

I think that perhaps the biggest threat to America is her dumbing down. Fewer and fewer people read anything more challenging than the sports page or People magazine. Newspapers and bookstores are declining at a brisk pace. The American university system is steadily dropping any pretense of providing a well-rounded education in literature, history, philosophy and is becoming little more than vocational training. Public discourse has become so vulgar that fewer and fewer people could even recognize what tempered, reasoned debate even looks like.

I think statistically, only about 20% of Americans are politically engaged, and probably half of those are engaged for stupid and mistaken reasons.

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #17)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 02:03 PM

45. +1. Dumbing down to the extreme, loss of reading, almost total idot TV programming now unlike

earlier decades, corruption of liberal thinking in schools and universities and hatred of all things government. Mix in economic insecurity, minority scapegoating and pervasive Fox and hate media. What decline, but better day are ahead once we come out of the ultraconservative neoliberal pollution!

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 11:25 AM

20. Disappointing as well as discouraging.

 

Well said sibelian. I'm a "Senior Citizen", have witnessed so many important milestones, some groans and moans also, but I have never seen my country so divided. It is my hope that our young people will rise up and help make changes. I am encouraged by Sanders' rise in the polls.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 11:25 AM

21. Thank you very much. You're right,

it is disappointing, and leads me to thoughts of inevitability and human nature.

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Response to elleng (Reply #21)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 03:30 PM

52. I think hope and optimisim and genuine progress are also inevitable, elleng...


Eventually everyone just gets sick of the bullshit! That happens over and over again, too.

I think the cycle's taken a long time to come around this time, but I have a tingly feeling...

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Response to sibelian (Reply #52)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 05:12 PM

65. Glad you have a tingly feeling, sibelian.

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Response to elleng (Reply #21)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 11:29 AM

90. A lot of money and power has gone into making certain things seem like human nature,

inevitable and the only way forward: Either it's a certain way, or we all go rapidly to Hell in a gasoline-soaked handbasket.

It ain't necessarily so.

When we feel as though nothing we do or say makes a difference, including our vote or our pleas to our elected "representatives:"

http://www.britannica.com/topic/learned-helplessness

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 11:38 AM

23. K&R for illuminating the truth!!!

A thoughtful post! Thank you so much for taking the time to write and post this. Especially as a Scotsman...I’ve often wondered how it must look to your eyes since the principals espoused by our founding fathers had its roots in Soillseachadh na h-Alba, and the GOP has convinced their idiots that our Founding Fathers were a group of reverent God-worshipers who actually meant EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THEY SAID - that religion and government were completely separate things. But then again these are also the clowns that preach exactly the opposite of the person they claim to worship, Jesus Christ.

The professor at uni that taught a wonderful class about the Enlightenment was a Scotsman too (as was my Gran! Born in Campbelltown) and it was SUCH an amazing glass (because he was such an enthusiastic professor) that its one of the few classes that shaped my way of thinking and remains with me to this very day.

Thank you for this post. Wish I could K&R this all day.

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Response to dorkzilla (Reply #23)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 03:44 PM

54. We've certainly got a history of pointing at authority figures and shouting:


"How the $%*£would YOU know, pal?!?!" lol

It's got it's advantages,being a bunch of belligerent tossers!!

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Response to sibelian (Reply #54)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 04:39 PM

62. I generally tend to follow in that proud tradition!! nt

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 11:38 AM

24. It is THAT...

What's more disappointing is how short people's memories are.

You have more history, and probably a better system of education. We should take to heart and DO something about this disappointing state… because it's a STATE OF MIND.

Thanks, sibelian… You have every right to say it.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 11:48 AM

25. Dear Sibelian, thank you for the compliment to the USA

 

I sincerely hope that in the coming years we live up to your expectations (and ours) and are worthy of your praise as we try to get the American dream back on track and moving forward.

AND

May it be in both our lifetimes!

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Response to Demeter (Reply #25)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:22 PM

98. That is also my hope, Demeter.

Too many fucking smart-asses benefit from placing themselves above the American Dream.

They don't deserve to win.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 12:01 PM

26. I can think of some other options.

Disappointing is better than "hate," but maybe not there yet. Here are some that pop to mind:

offensive
insulting
disheartening
discouraging
unmotivating
treacherous
depressing

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 12:06 PM

27. K&R

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 12:13 PM

29. Nailed it.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 12:21 PM

30. An absolutely brilliant post. Although it nails the current situation, it transcends politics.

"you have whatever personality flaw I need to pretend you have to make my behaviour look reasonable to myself and your ideas dismissable as fantasy".


This is like a gift from the cosmos as it explains the dynamics of a very painful personal situation that has been profoundly destructive. Wow.




"I say this as a Scotsman in Edinburgh." Be still my beating heart. Having just recently devoured all of Ian Rankin's books, anything and anyone associated to Edinburgh is the object of my adoration. Is it Haggis, hills or heather that makes you Scots so insightful and articulate? Inquiring minds want to know.







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Response to snagglepuss (Reply #30)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 03:28 PM

51. Oh, it makes me FURIOUS when people play that game.

Last edited Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:25 PM - Edit history (1)

And it's so easy to identify, if the personality flaw only mysteriously turns up and has any meaning when the person accusing you of it wants something out of you.... if others who have no vested interest in benefitting from your attempting to mitigate against the imaginary flaw can't see it... UGH.

Manipulative nonsense!

As for me being insightful, well.... thank you! But I think my life has probably just been too hand-to-mouth for too long to have any patience with people who want to use me as a lightning conductor...

We can be a bit belligerent over here in Haggisland...

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 12:36 PM

32. On Point And Very Well Said

eom

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 12:38 PM

33. That is a damned fine OP

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 12:39 PM

34. Given the way this country

seeks to be the all to every other country on earth in both bad ways and good ways I think you have every right to talk about this and say what you say. Also being a long member here gives you the right to express your observations.

In some ways this was encouraging. I have talked to people, friends who live in other countries, and most of them look at me and ask me WTF are we thinking? Well, I don't know because not much of what has happened since I became aware has been anything I would have thought a grand plan, a few things yes. The things you expressed were good. They were big but isolated. None of that would happen now without a huge, years long fight. Still, we do forget. It is easy to forget in the mess we find ourselves in.

Anyway, it is very sad how it looks here and how it feels here. Thanks for the reminder of what we could be, what we have been but wow, it is going to take a miracle and many years to move there now. Unless......we all work together to assure a political revolution to rebuild this nation. I think we as a country would change rapidly once people began to feel useful, make a decent wage with time to not worry so much and relax, learned to work together for the good of the community (small to large). Once that starts the change will follow quicker. I sure hope so, we have a lot of correcting to do.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 12:45 PM

35. Excellent post!

Maybe they'll listen to you with your distant/better perspective because they sure as hell don't listen to us.

Thank you! It's always nice to hear what other people think about this country and its politics.

Bernie is trying to clear the way for better politics and make this country what it's suppose to be. To have the Third way DINO club trying to stop him is disheartening, to say the least. This is our chance and probably our last chance to reverse the damage caused by 40 years of Tinkle-On politics/policies.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 01:07 PM

38. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, sibelian.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 01:54 PM

41. Exactly! nt

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 01:59 PM

44. K&R!

You rock!

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 02:19 PM

46. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

 




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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 02:31 PM

48. This post deserves hundreds of recommendations! K&R!

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 02:36 PM

50. K&R

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 03:50 PM

55. OH, HELL YEAH,

And its enraging to someone who grew up here!!!!!

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 04:13 PM

58. Very strong K/R

 

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 04:30 PM

60. Well said. nm

 

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 04:31 PM

61. I may never post again

 

'cause this says it all, and say it so well.

Thank you.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #61)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 08:32 AM

84. Oh, please, make it a promise

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Response to nolabels (Reply #84)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 08:41 AM

86. Thank you.

 

I now have purpose for posting again.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #86)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 09:03 AM

87. Remember, that the perfect world has always been imagined by an imperfect person

I never have a real reason for posting, but you know what the say, 'when if feels good then.......'

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #61)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:26 PM

93. Don't you DARE stop posting.


You're one of the reasons I came back!

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Response to sibelian (Reply #93)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:56 PM

95. I guess those accents only make you people *sound* smart

 

But thank you.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 04:58 PM

64. Beaut! Happy to rec and kick.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 05:44 PM

66. Terrific post!

 

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 05:48 PM

67. I've been disappointed for over twenty years now. Maybe if some people perceive our

criticism as hate it is because we are so damn frustrated by how long we have had to endure these disappointments. I will admit I am frustrated and yes sometimes even angry. I am tired of waiting decade after decade for economic justice. I do not accept the label of hate though. I do not hate Hillary. I just will not vote for her. My vote will go to someone I believe will fight for economic justice and I just don't believe Hillary is that person.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 05:51 PM

68. It's more like worry for me.

 

There have been enough past disappointments, next phase is worry. I don't want a leader that is 'tough' and translates that toughness to military power. I want a tough candidate, like Bernie, tough against all odds and yet still making amazing headway recruiting people that are ready for something different.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 05:53 PM

69. Best rant I've heard in forever.

Bravo. Love it when someone crystallizes a point and then pounds it in your brain.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 06:36 PM

70. Bravo! or maybe Brava!

Wonderful. Beautiful. Thank you!

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Response to marym625 (Reply #70)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 06:39 PM

71. Bravo in my case...


And thank YOU.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #71)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 08:00 PM

73. no, thank you

This is wonderful

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 06:42 PM

72. K & R!!!

for stating the truth...


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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Sep 13, 2015, 10:58 PM

74. Fucking amazing post. K&R

 

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:10 AM

75. K & R, thank you for expressing your thoughts so brilliantly


It is very difficult come to a common workable solution when the affected do not know what the problem is. This could be said of any day-to-day task.

It seems to be chore to educate one self when given half-truths, half lies to out right non-sense.




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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:26 AM

76. DU would be a much better read if everyone who posts read this line before hitting the button

For me you can skip all of the rest.

It's DISAPPOINTING to hear grown adults talk about whole demographics as if they are populated exclusively by mindless lumps of Play-Doh incapable of listening to anyone or anything that doesn't remind them of themselves.


We all want the same things, a better life for our kids than we had. We all face many of the same day to day challenges. Yet somehow we manage to put a wall between each other over how to get there.

When we prescribe the intellectual road others must travel, are cruel when their path is not aligned with ours, value certainty over learning, we lose..we all lose.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:31 AM

77. Human nature doesn't change with geography

 

OP wrote "It's the same stupid, oppressive garbage that's plagued Europe for centuries."

Not a surprise, human nature doesn't change with geography.

Welcome to the real world.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 05:13 AM

79. Money and propaganda

are the root causes of what you cite as disappointing. If those factors aren't changed, we can all just keep banging our heads on the table. At one time, I thought ideology and religion were major players, but have come to realize they are just tools of propagandists trying to acquire more wealth and power.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 07:32 AM

80. You couldn't be more right, Sibelian. Don't judge the country by what you see

on internet forums though. Out in the real world, people are very different than what you see here. They are ANGRY and FRUSTRATED and those in power are working hard to hold on to what they stole from the people. So we see the talking points, the attempts to intimidate etc, they will try ANYTHING to stop the people from creating the movement necessary to send them back to where they came from and restore the power to the people that THEY have spent decades trying to take away.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #80)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:20 PM

97. I believe you.


You're here, after all, aren't you?

(((sabrina 1)))

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 07:38 AM

81. That brought tears to my eyes...

I'm still moved. You touched the spot that is so tender, the wound that won't heal.

Of course your a Scottsman, a kinsman with a keen eye and generous heart.

Thank you!

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Response to haikugal (Reply #81)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:18 PM

96. ... :O


(((haikugal)))

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 07:43 AM

82. K & R

This just says it all. Sibelian speaks for me.

226th record was from me. I hope you make it to 250 in the next couple hours.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #82)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:19 PM

91. I haven't, but I'm amazed anyway!

Fuck me!

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 08:31 AM

83. I agree. n/t

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 09:07 AM

88. We exist in the most reality Wall St investors will allow.

All of our woes and most of the worlds woes can be laid at the feet of those who care more for money than being a decent steward to fellow human beings and our natural world.

They cannot even be honest with themselves about what they accomplish day in and day out. Laboring and investing in some of the most racist, conservative, sexist, deceitful, polluting and war mongering industries in the world and then having the gall to wonder why the world is the way it is.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 09:59 AM

89. What's that one liner the right wingers always say:

Why do you hate America?




Well said. We've essentially become England back when it was conquering the world.

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Response to d_legendary1 (Reply #89)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:21 PM

92. IT's so AWFUL. It's so twisted and *genuinely* ironic!


Not the irony we're told we're supposed to see in dumb exchganges on message boards, truly historically ironic!

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Response to sibelian (Reply #92)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:44 PM

94. Yup. We're supposed to be proud of our accomplishments

because America breeds winners...or something like that. It makes the phrase "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" much more meaningful.

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