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99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 12:49 AM Aug 2015

Hillary supporter: I hope she "bows out gracefully"

I’m a Hillary Clinton fan. But I hope she bows out with grace
by Mary Dejevsky * The Guardiqn * August 17, 2015

Hillary Clinton has a fundraising pot that is overflowing. She appears to be cruising to the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination: and then, if the stars align in her favour, on to a well-deserved place in history as the first female president of the United States.

Her supporters have wished it for so long, it seems almost impossible that it might not come to pass. And I would count myself among those supporters, ever since – as a Washington-based correspondent – I watched the lobbyists gang up to defeat her health plan, and observed how she toughed out the sordid revelations about her husband and “that woman, Miss Lewinsky”.

Clinton, as she showed then and has shown since, is not one to walk away. She embodies that all-American quip about the going getting tough and the tough getting going. But I just hope that there are those, somewhere in her entourage, who are even now begging her not to do it, and to bow out while there is still time to do so with grace.

Reality must be looked in the eye. Clinton is a hugely divisive figure, including within her own party – and not primarily because she is a woman. There is the clan question. What does it say about the meritocratic credentials of the United States that two of the most favoured candidates for 2016 are closely related to recent presidents? Neither is to blame but in my book, this alone would be a reason for both Clinton and Jeb Bush to leave the field. It is also a reason why they may not be electable.

Then there is the Bill question. A large section of the Republican party hates the Clinton name with the same venom that many Britons reserve for Margaret Thatcher, blaming Bill, as they see it, for defiling the presidency. This should not affect Hillary Clinton’s support – but it will limit her ability to appeal across parties. Nor do US voters need to be dragged all over again through the intricacies of the (loss-making) Whitewater land deal, the involvement of the Rose Law firm, or the suicide of a close aide, but they probably will. And if these Bill questions are not enough, there is another where she really does have some explaining to do: it concerns her involvement with his post-presidential charitable fundraising at a time when she held public office.

Clinton’s chief liability, though, is the baggage she carries of her own...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/17/hillary-clinton-white-house-too-much-baggage
139 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hillary supporter: I hope she "bows out gracefully" (Original Post) 99th_Monkey Aug 2015 OP
Yes...Hillary should quit right now while she's up over 30 points Cali_Democrat Aug 2015 #1
60 points a month sgo... ibegurpard Aug 2015 #7
The OP makes no sense at all. And I'm for Bernie. mahina Aug 2015 #87
she's not going anywhere. KMOD Aug 2015 #2
You mean the overwhelming favorite who is lagging behind Bernie Sanders the last Cleita Aug 2015 #6
No. KMOD Aug 2015 #9
I am a registered Democrat and I don't think they are polling correctly. Cleita Aug 2015 #10
Well, that settles it, then. NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #13
LOL DURHAM D Aug 2015 #14
That answers it. You live in a red state and they can't wait to vote for Hillary. Cleita Aug 2015 #16
It will be a really fun night when she turns some Red states Blue. nt DURHAM D Aug 2015 #17
Are you sure she will be the candidate that turns that state blue? eom Cleita Aug 2015 #18
Too true. KMOD Aug 2015 #19
No it isn't. You can take that to the bank. Save your money. eom Cleita Aug 2015 #22
Let me just repost your post... Agschmid Aug 2015 #113
Well, they'll change their tune ... NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #20
Really, throwing out the red herrings now, chemtrails and all? Cleita Aug 2015 #24
Uh, yeah. NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #30
I guess you don't know what that is. Cleita Aug 2015 #33
And I guess you don't know ... NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #41
You lost. Admit it. Cleita Aug 2015 #43
Are you ok? KMOD Aug 2015 #46
Oh, the concern. How touching. eom Cleita Aug 2015 #50
Uh, lost what? NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #47
Oh, now it's a joke. Cleita Aug 2015 #49
It's been a running joke ... NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #55
You lost it with the reference to chemtrails and whatever the little insider ha, ha you Cleita Aug 2015 #59
I don't know ... NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #65
I will be amusing you all the way to Bernie Sander's inauguration. Cleita Aug 2015 #67
Yeah, let's meet up here on BS's inauguration day ... n/t NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #71
It's a date. Trust me. It is unless you don't show up of course. eom Cleita Aug 2015 #72
Not tomorrow, sweetie. Fawke Em Aug 2015 #108
Absolutely no one I talk to even knows what a chemtrail is. DURHAM D Aug 2015 #27
Yes, those reality-based folks ... NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #32
Actually, they should call me and hang out with the people I hang out with. Cleita Aug 2015 #21
Oh, I hear ya! NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #25
You really think that corporate measuring bullshit is scientific? Cleita Aug 2015 #28
"Corporate Measuring Bullshit" Agschmid Aug 2015 #114
I recently found my great grandmother's Weather Prophet (hygrometer) DURHAM D Aug 2015 #35
Are there red herrings there. Cleita Aug 2015 #36
No, just red or Russian wheat. DURHAM D Aug 2015 #40
Grain elevator going up ... n/t NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #38
... sheshe2 Aug 2015 #31
So how come if Sanders attract Republicans it is a wonderful thing, but a bad lunamagica Aug 2015 #57
My state is blue. It has been for a long time. Cleita Aug 2015 #61
I suppose one could make the case sibelian Aug 2015 #139
aren't we all registered democrats? nt DesertFlower Aug 2015 #109
No, as it turns out. Agschmid Aug 2015 #115
the only excuse for that would DesertFlower Aug 2015 #117
I'm not. Chan790 Aug 2015 #127
Post 6, followed up by this one, leave me scratching my head. NCTraveler Aug 2015 #120
What national poll has ever put her behind Bernie? Link, please. pnwmom Aug 2015 #92
I think the source is the virulently right-wing, tabloid Boston Herald MADem Aug 2015 #110
It's convenient that the poll you find believable mythology Aug 2015 #126
You need to watch this video -- both parts, from RealNews. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #77
I don't have to register in my state Fawke Em Aug 2015 #107
no fracking button? KMOD Aug 2015 #135
She won't and has never done anything gracefully. AtomicKitten Aug 2015 #3
When is Bernie sheshe2 Aug 2015 #34
Bernie is an American first. He has declared himself as a socialist democrat for the past thirty Cleita Aug 2015 #37
Well, that's a cute answer. NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #44
He wants America for working Americans. So do I. Cleita Aug 2015 #48
Hey Nance... sheshe2 Aug 2015 #85
You need new reading glasses. Comrade Grumpy Aug 2015 #133
Who wants who's money and support??? catnhatnh Aug 2015 #118
Of course he is an American, is someone questioning that? sheshe2 Aug 2015 #52
Yes, it seems they are. Why does he have to declare his party when the party he Cleita Aug 2015 #53
state election laws. eom. KMOD Aug 2015 #60
His state election laws say otherwise. eom Cleita Aug 2015 #62
He's attempting to run nationally. eom. KMOD Aug 2015 #63
He's been in politics more than three decades, in Washington almost 25 years, I'm sure Cleita Aug 2015 #66
I don't think he does. eom KMOD Aug 2015 #74
Good he has it figured out. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #98
I suppose you think he needs an invitation. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #111
The party maybe... sheshe2 Aug 2015 #69
Everybody still has one vote. That is in the Constitution. eom Cleita Aug 2015 #70
It's in the constitution? Agschmid Aug 2015 #116
I don't believe the Constitution speaks to how parties can conduct their primaries. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #131
Correct. Agschmid Aug 2015 #138
Hillary Clinton is all Grace.. I don't know what that poster is talking about. Cha Aug 2015 #89
Late... sheshe2 Aug 2015 #99
Yes, it's late.. but, I know Cha Aug 2015 #104
When are the Clintons going to declare they don't own the party? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #94
When is Bernie going to declare himself a Democrat? sheshe2 Aug 2015 #96
He already did. Did you miss it? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #100
Send me the link that he declared. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #103
He filed papers with the Federal Elections Commission as a Democrat. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #106
He is running on our ticket. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #136
Do you believe he needs permission from the Clintons? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #137
She conceded very gracefully, to President Obama in 2008 KMOD Aug 2015 #45
And I'm sure she will to President Bernie Sanders as well. eom Cleita Aug 2015 #73
. KMOD Aug 2015 #75
. Cleita Aug 2015 #79
+1 sheshe2 Aug 2015 #97
Yes, she did, K.. and that's when I started liking her again. She came together for the good of Cha Aug 2015 #78
Yup. KMOD Aug 2015 #81
Yeah, BS wanted to primary President Obama in 2012. I won't say what I think of him.. 'cause Cha Aug 2015 #84
I'm an asterisk decipherer KMOD Aug 2015 #88
I knew you could do it! LOL Cha Aug 2015 #91
Cha, could you provide a link or two to support that claim? hedda_foil Aug 2015 #123
... DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #134
I give Hillary credit for being gracious in defeat. Unfortunately, too many of her loyal supporters refused to follow her lead... InAbLuEsTaTe Aug 2015 #112
Great, a tit for tat. A thread is started quoted someone I never heard of saying that "Bernie still_one Aug 2015 #4
+1000 blackspade Aug 2015 #82
More quotes from "ann coulter", chuckie todd, rush limbaugh pushing crap, too! Cha Aug 2015 #86
She digs some old bones in the fifth paragraph. Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #5
as much as I want to believe her sincerity ibegurpard Aug 2015 #8
There is a plethora of "I support (candidate) BUT...." nonsense flying all over these days...[n/t] Maedhros Aug 2015 #11
Yes it's insultingly stupid ibegurpard Aug 2015 #29
I realize that the competition is steep ... NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #12
What... you aren't 1 of the 4 Recs? DURHAM D Aug 2015 #15
Oh, that's easy, KMOD Aug 2015 #23
That is what was said about Bill CountAllVotes Aug 2015 #26
This is a kind of tit-for-tat "I'm a Hillary supporter, but ....." delrem Aug 2015 #39
we know that train left a while ago DonCoquixote Aug 2015 #42
Please list "Bernie's self inflicted wounds at the hands of BLM" delrem Aug 2015 #51
he should have had a plan DonCoquixote Aug 2015 #54
That's no answer. It's a whine. delrem Aug 2015 #56
no answer and a whine DonCoquixote Aug 2015 #58
The Waste Land delrem Aug 2015 #64
I've always wanted to use this smiley.... C Moon Aug 2015 #68
Well, you know that the Guardian is a notorious right wing rag. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2015 #76
Suuuure you're a supporter, Mary. Hillary is going to keep on keeping on. nt Hekate Aug 2015 #80
Similar thoughts, Hekate.. Cha Aug 2015 #90
Now you know what it's like to be at the receiving end of that kind of dissembling. delrem Aug 2015 #105
yes, I really give a fuck what someone who lives 5000 miles away, who's attacked Democrats before, ericson00 Aug 2015 #83
Yeah, I have NMFTG, either, ericson. Cha Aug 2015 #93
She won't. n/t Betty Karlson Aug 2015 #95
K~ sheshe2 Aug 2015 #101
that's insane. hillary knew what she DesertFlower Aug 2015 #102
Checked out some of this author's other work.... OKNancy Aug 2015 #119
Color me shocked.Not. nt sufrommich Aug 2015 #121
i always look articles that start with restorefreedom Aug 2015 #122
I just hopes she bows out. Gracefully would be nice. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2015 #124
"As the frontrunner by a massive plurality, I feel I have no choice but to step down" Godhumor Aug 2015 #125
Yawn ... obnoxiousdrunk Aug 2015 #128
I can see your point HassleCat Aug 2015 #129
Yes, let's elect a Democratic Socialist "who carries no baggage" 99th_Monkey Aug 2015 #132
She will bow out if her funding dries up and she is way behind in the polls 6chars Aug 2015 #130

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
6. You mean the overwhelming favorite who is lagging behind Bernie Sanders the last
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 12:59 AM
Aug 2015

believable poll I saw? Or the overwhelming favorite of the DNC that is flooding my mailbox with pleas for money just this week?

 

KMOD

(7,906 posts)
9. No.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:04 AM
Aug 2015

Polls continually show that she has support among the vast majority of Democratic voters, and the vast majority of demographics within the party.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
10. I am a registered Democrat and I don't think they are polling correctly.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:08 AM
Aug 2015

I never in real life run into Democrats, and I do hang around a lot of them doing activism and attending clubs, who are very enthused about Hillary. Most don't like her at all. Of course, it might just be the conservative area I live in.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
13. Well, that settles it, then.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:13 AM
Aug 2015

I don't know why politicians waste their money on pollsters when they can just call you, and ask what the "people you hang out with" think.

DURHAM D

(32,595 posts)
14. LOL
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:17 AM
Aug 2015

They should call me - I now live in a deeply red state and everyone I talk to can't wait to vote for Hillary. I thought at first they were putting me on but turns out they are sick of the men running the country. Go figure.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
16. That answers it. You live in a red state and they can't wait to vote for Hillary.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:20 AM
Aug 2015

You just painted her as Republican Lite which we all knew.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
113. Let me just repost your post...
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 06:22 AM
Aug 2015
10. I am a registered Democrat and I don't think they are polling correctly.
I never in real life run into Democrats, and I do hang around a lot of them doing activism and attending clubs, who are very enthused about Hillary. Most don't like her at all. Of course, it might just be the conservative area I live in.


Right back at you...

What a reficulous post.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
20. Well, they'll change their tune ...
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:25 AM
Aug 2015

... the minute they read this "article" cited by the OP - and realize that those chemtrails really are the devilish work of the Clintons.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
24. Really, throwing out the red herrings now, chemtrails and all?
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:29 AM
Aug 2015

I thought you were a notch above the usual when you lost an argument.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
30. Uh, yeah.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:38 AM
Aug 2015

I just lost the argument? HRC is still way ahead in the polls. Exactly which argument am I - and the rest of her supporters - losing?

And yeah, the chemtrails reference was a "red herring" - a herring that just swam past you when you weren't looking.







NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
41. And I guess you don't know ...
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:51 AM
Aug 2015

... why that's even funnier than everything else you've posted in this thread.



Maybe someone will point it out to you eventually.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
47. Uh, lost what?
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:02 AM
Aug 2015

And you STILL don't get the joke - major loss on your part there.

Sometimes it's just fish-in-a-barrel season, and it now seems to be upon us - red herrings and all!!!

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
55. It's been a running joke ...
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:08 AM
Aug 2015

... for a long time in this thread.

Sorry it's taking you so long to catch on. But I can understand why.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
59. You lost it with the reference to chemtrails and whatever the little insider ha, ha you
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:12 AM
Aug 2015

and sir grain elevator were having, which is okay. That's what PMs are for. However, when you lose the argument and have to divert it to that kind of reference, you threw a red herring into the conversation because you didn't want to continue it.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
65. I don't know ...
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:19 AM
Aug 2015

... what argument you think was being debated here, or what you think I lost. Nor do I care.

But this thread has been amusing beyond all imagining. And it's people like you who keep the amusement coming on a regular basis.

So thanks for that !!!

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
32. Yes, those reality-based folks ...
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:41 AM
Aug 2015

... you've got to post pretty early in the morning to get a chemtrail past them.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
21. Actually, they should call me and hang out with the people I hang out with.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:25 AM
Aug 2015

They might get the truth. Instead of scanning their spread sheets and collecting their fees, they might figure out the people they are polling are about as useful as focus groups. I really don't understand why any company or otherwise wastes money on those. I used to do them for the money and lunch. I told them whatever they wanted to know.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
25. Oh, I hear ya!
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:29 AM
Aug 2015

No point in wasting money on that new-fangled scientific stuff and all. Better to call on "someone in the know", such as yourself, to find out what's really going on.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
28. You really think that corporate measuring bullshit is scientific?
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:32 AM
Aug 2015

I doubt if any honest, real scientists would agree.

DURHAM D

(32,595 posts)
35. I recently found my great grandmother's Weather Prophet (hygrometer)
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:43 AM
Aug 2015

Even though it has a missing part it is more accurate than the author of this OP.


PS - You can take that to the grain elevator.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
57. So how come if Sanders attract Republicans it is a wonderful thing, but a bad
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:09 AM
Aug 2015

sign if they do the same for Hillary?

I'd love it if Hillary turns your state blue

sibelian

(7,804 posts)
139. I suppose one could make the case
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:31 PM
Aug 2015

that Hilary will attract rich republicans and Bernie is more likely to attract libertarians...?

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
127. I'm not.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 11:35 AM
Aug 2015

That has more to do with holding appointed office here in CT though...we have partisan quotas for appointed boards of state and municipal commissions. There was an open unaffiliated seat on my town economic development council so I re-registered as unaffiliated, waited 90 days to be eligible to hold office as an unaffiliated and applied.

Usually only the GOP pulls that trick...but I'm all in favor of co-opting successful tactics, regardless whose playbook they're out of. Now progressives control my local EDC.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
120. Post 6, followed up by this one, leave me scratching my head.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 09:00 AM
Aug 2015

It's as if they were written by two different people; the second not reading what the first wrote before responding. You could actually start an argument with yourself.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
92. What national poll has ever put her behind Bernie? Link, please.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 03:15 AM
Aug 2015

Or are you talking about a poll in New Hampshire, that state next door to Vermont with FOUR electoral votes?

I could certainly find it believable that Bernie would get those votes.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
110. I think the source is the virulently right-wing, tabloid Boston Herald
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 04:58 AM
Aug 2015

poll of NH voters (who are pretty much white people and there are a ton of independent voters there--it's a good litmus test for GOP candidates but it's not as predictive for Democrats). Of course, the Herald thought Romney was a shoe-in, and Scott Brown would handily defeat Elizabeth Warren.

So much for their prognostication skills. I wouldn't extrapolate much from that. I also think they may have been pushing the MOE envelope to draw that conclusion.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
126. It's convenient that the poll you find believable
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 11:25 AM
Aug 2015

Is the one that says what you want.

If you ask nicely, maybe you can get unskewthepolls.com from the guy who was convinced Romney was winning.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
77. You need to watch this video -- both parts, from RealNews.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:38 AM
Aug 2015

The problem with the e-mails is not that they exist, but what they show about the State Department under Hillary, how closely linked to multinational corporations she is.

What good does it do to have a foundation that tries to help people in underdeveloped countries if at the same time you are supporting policies and strategizing to wrest from people in a poor country, control of their natural resources like oil and gas.

See this video from ReakNews -- both parts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017286974

And the article in the Guardian is saying what I have been saying. Hillary is not going to get any cross-over votes or any new converts to the Democratic Party. Ot should I say very, very few of them.

Fact is, that the Republicans have stirred up propaganda whether true or false makes no difference against her for years now. She will have a tough time overcoming that fact.

The numbers of foreign countries and very wealthy people who have donated to the Clinton foundation also will at some point raise questions about the perception of conflicts of interest. The Clinton Foundation no doubt does wonderful work, but Hillary should have decided whether to raise funds for her Foundation or run for president. She should not be pursuing both at the same time. She may believe that she owes her foundation donors no favors, but do they? And what happens if she doesn't deliver what they expect?

Hillary really should not be running. I agree with that.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
107. I don't have to register in my state
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 04:47 AM
Aug 2015

In fact, it's best not to at all.

Glad you got rid of the no fracking button. Made you look like a hypocrite.

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
3. She won't and has never done anything gracefully.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 12:55 AM
Aug 2015

She wouldn't concede the primary last time she ran even when there were no more contests to be had. It's all about her without a thought or care for the party or the country.

Clinton Refuses to Concede Nomination.

NEW YORK — Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton Tuesday refused to bow out of the Democratic race Tuesday, hoping to maintain leverage as Barack Obama clinched the delegates needed to secure the party's nomination. Clinton told supporters in a rally at Baruch College that she would consult party leaders in coming days on how to move forward, but that, "I will be making no decisions tonight."

"A lot of people are asking, 'What does Hillary want?'" Clinton said. "I want what I have always fought for: I want the nearly 18 million people who voted for me to be respected and heard." Clinton told the crowd she would consult in the coming days with advisers about the fate of her moribund candidacy. But her remarks came hours after she told congressional colleagues she would be open to joining Obama as his running mate.

<<snip>>

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/24953561/ns/politics-decision_08/t/clinton-refuses-concede-nomination


Obama wins Democratic nomination, Hillary ignores reality



Hillary Agonistes: Why Doesn't She Concede?

As the odds get longer and longer, the obvious question is: Why doesn't Hillary Clinton gracefully concede defeat and throw her support behind her party's defacto nominee, Barack Obama? As my colleague at Salon, Walter Shapiro puts it: "What motivates her? Is it ambition, pride, feminism, vindication, public service or ideology? Or is it some combination of all of them?"

The decision, Peter Keating, former senior writer for politics at George who now covers sports business for ESPN, suggests is "how much she wants to hurt Obama. And when she equated 'white Americans' with 'hard-working Americans' in attacking Obama last week, she signaled that she's still willing to campaign destructively. As long as Hillary is playing with her knife collection, she can make Obama bleed."

<<snip>>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/13/hillary-agonistes-why-doe_n_101618.html

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
37. Bernie is an American first. He has declared himself as a socialist democrat for the past thirty
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:46 AM
Aug 2015

plus years.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
44. Well, that's a cute answer.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:56 AM
Aug 2015

But seriously, when do you think Bernie will actually become a member of the Party he wants to support his political ambitions?

He wants our support, our money, and our votes. Do you think he'll ever think we're worthy of his being one of us?

sheshe2

(83,319 posts)
85. Hey Nance...
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 03:01 AM
Aug 2015

Sorry to break in here.

What the hell does this mean?????

Hillary is divisive because she is a woman? Did I read that right? WTF!

Clinton is a hugely divisive figure, including within her own party – and not primarily because she is a woman.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
133. You need new reading glasses.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 12:50 PM
Aug 2015

Clinton is a hugely divisive figure, including within her own party – and not primarily because she is a woman.

sheshe2

(83,319 posts)
52. Of course he is an American, is someone questioning that?
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:05 AM
Aug 2015

He can say he is a socialist democrat all he wants, yet he is in fact an Independent and always was.

Wanted to primary President Obama for 2012. Hmmm, outstanding Democrat, oh wait he is not.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
53. Yes, it seems they are. Why does he have to declare his party when the party he
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:07 AM
Aug 2015

is running under has accepted him as a candidate?

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
66. He's been in politics more than three decades, in Washington almost 25 years, I'm sure
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:21 AM
Aug 2015

he has it figured out. Trust me all the other candidates, both Republican and Democratic, would be on this like wildfire if it was a real issue. Well, maybe the Donald might try some asshole stuff.

sheshe2

(83,319 posts)
98. Good he has it figured out.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 03:47 AM
Aug 2015
He's been in politics more than three decades, in Washington almost 25 years, I'm sure

he has it figured out.


So when is he changing to the party he is running for!

Hint....Democratic Candidate!!!!!!

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,704 posts)
131. I don't believe the Constitution speaks to how parties can conduct their primaries.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 12:04 PM
Aug 2015

The parties control how their candidates are nominated. In fact political parties aren't even mentioned in the Constitution.


Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
138. Correct.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:26 PM
Aug 2015

And even when we get to the GE, in our American system one vote on person doesn't really exist.

Cha

(295,899 posts)
89. Hillary Clinton is all Grace.. I don't know what that poster is talking about.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 03:05 AM
Aug 2015

The writer of the article couldn't be much of a "Hillary fan".. if she's talking about her "bowing out gracefully"... Now! What a silly thing to say. She has no clue what's going to happen between now and the GE Election.. she obviously has no clue what a fighter Hillary is.. but, oh yeah.. she's "a fan".. LOL

Hillary isn't going anywhere except to the White House on her own volition. And, yes I have no crystal ball either.. but, I know she won't quit.

I swear.. the swill people come up with to make a deadline.



sheshe2

(83,319 posts)
103. Send me the link that he declared.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 04:07 AM
Aug 2015

Send me that link that he has switched parties. Link please, that he is now a registered Democrat.

TIA

Cha

(295,899 posts)
78. Yes, she did, K.. and that's when I started liking her again. She came together for the good of
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:41 AM
Aug 2015

Democracy and President Obama kept asking her to be his SOS and she finally relented.. and the rest is history.

I think it's given her invaluable experience for her future job as President.

Thank you!

 

KMOD

(7,906 posts)
81. Yup.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:54 AM
Aug 2015

and BS on the other hand wanted to primary a sitting President from his supposed party.

Cha

(295,899 posts)
84. Yeah, BS wanted to primary President Obama in 2012. I won't say what I think of him.. 'cause
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 03:00 AM
Aug 2015

BS fans would alert and with "85% Bernie supporters on DU".. there's a very good chance I would get a hide.

So suffice to say.. I **** **** *** **** *****!



hedda_foil

(16,368 posts)
123. Cha, could you provide a link or two to support that claim?
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 10:57 AM
Aug 2015

I spend altogether too much time on DU and read a lot of political/news sources, but I've never encountered this before.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,704 posts)
134. ...
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 12:55 PM
Aug 2015
SANDERS: Brian, believe me, I wish I had the answer to your question. Let me just suggest this. I think there are millions of Americans who are deeply disappointed in the president; who believe that, with regard to Social Security and a number of other issues, he said one thing as a candidate and is doing something very much else as a president; who cannot believe how weak he has been, for whatever reason, in negotiating with Republicans and there’s deep disappointment. So my suggestion is, I think one of the reasons the president has been able to move so far to the right is that there is no primary opposition to him and I think it would do this country a good deal of service if people started thinking about candidates out there to begin contrasting what is a progressive agenda as opposed to what Obama is doing. […] So I would say to Ryan [sic] discouragement is not an option. I think it would be a good idea if President Obama faced some primary opposition.

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/07/22/277124/bernie-sanders-primary-obama/

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
112. I give Hillary credit for being gracious in defeat. Unfortunately, too many of her loyal supporters refused to follow her lead...
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 05:15 AM
Aug 2015

Let's hope, this time around, when Bernie wins
the nomination, things will be different.

still_one

(91,937 posts)
4. Great, a tit for tat. A thread is started quoted someone I never heard of saying that "Bernie
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 12:55 AM
Aug 2015

disavows being a Democrat, then why should we as Democrats have him forced on us", of course it is a gross misrepresentation of the facts, so I guess it is only fair to start a thread quoting someone I never heard of saying that "As a Hillary supporter, I hope Hillary bows out with grace"

bullshit meets bullshit

excellent

What we need is more Donald Trump threads while we are at it


Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
5. She digs some old bones in the fifth paragraph.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 12:58 AM
Aug 2015

I too hope she bows out with grace but I can't fathom it. She certainly won't anytime soon, she is leading.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
8. as much as I want to believe her sincerity
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:04 AM
Aug 2015

I dont for a second believe this author ever supported Hilllary. She makes some good points though.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
11. There is a plethora of "I support (candidate) BUT...." nonsense flying all over these days...[n/t]
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:10 AM
Aug 2015

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
29. Yes it's insultingly stupid
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:34 AM
Aug 2015

When I see a "I used to support Bernie but" statement and this is just as dumb. People that are paying attention enough to be hanging out here and have made a choice already aren't going to jump ship that easily.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
12. I realize that the competition is steep ...
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:10 AM
Aug 2015

... but this is absolutely, hands-down, without qualification and/or hesitation, one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen posted on this site.

I'm not saying it's the lamest attempt at serious political analysis - but it's definitely in the Top Ten.

"Reality must be looked at in the eye." And the reality is that HRC is still the Dem frontrunner, and that's not about to change.

That now-famous "baggage" she carries is the support of millions of voters - and, Jesus Hussein Christ, I hope she can handle the load, because it's pretty damned heavy.

I don't know who's dumber - the author of this bullshit, or the people who buy it.

CountAllVotes

(20,854 posts)
26. That is what was said about Bill
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:30 AM
Aug 2015

After the intern episode -- he should "step down" I heard more than once but it didn't seem to affect him at all.

As for Hillary ... *sigh*



delrem

(9,688 posts)
39. This is a kind of tit-for-tat "I'm a Hillary supporter, but ....."
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:48 AM
Aug 2015

kind of piece, mirroring the all too many OPs on DU that begin "I'm a Bernie supporter, but ....", which anyone who actually supports Bernie Sanders know are fucking trolls.
A difference is the amazing deference the article gives to Hillary Clinton in the opening paragraphs. Empty fawning.
The article doesn't examine any *issue* that Hillary Clinton actually handled, in government. It just vaguely points at the plethora of sex and money scandals associated with the name. Which, yah, is an issue all right. But e.g. Bernie Sanders supporters don't support Bernie because of Clinton scandals. They support Bernie on the fucking ISSUES.

So I wouldn't even throw Dejevsky a bone for this piece.

DonCoquixote

(13,615 posts)
42. we know that train left a while ago
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 01:54 AM
Aug 2015

especially after Bernie's self inflicted wounds at the hands of BLM. However, that does not mean that Hillary's friends do not need to tell her to stop acting like the person whose words seem chosen to offend the least amount of people and give the least amount of information. I actually blame her apparatchiks more than her, but the fact that they cost her the election in 2008 makes we wonder if Hillary learned anything.

AS far as her History though, this author proves that the British still have problem understanding us. If the GOP tries to play their 90's greatest hits package, they will find that people just do not care. It does not hurt that George Bush left a stink that still foul the air, and that the Koches cannot help but be painted as the arrogant aristocrats they are. If the GOP starts shooting with spent ammo, we have fresh ammo. If trump goes down, then Hillary can use the GOP's own base. Yes they hate her, but they hate the GOP too, especially as their machines also weed out popular candidates in favor of the person who acts centrist and will not trouble any power brokers. Multiply this by two if, despite being a mediocre campaigner, Jeb emerges.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
51. Please list "Bernie's self inflicted wounds at the hands of BLM"
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:04 AM
Aug 2015

I saw a lot of despicable race-baiting trolling of "white progressive" Bernie supporters on DU, saying that we're racists. But that's hardly proof of anything except the leadership of the Hillary Clinton faction on DU, since all that trolling came from that faction. We were trolled "just because", as eg. from the start just because we want to discuss Bernie Sanders' platform of economic reform.
I mean, WTF is with people like you, who accuse people like that?

DonCoquixote

(13,615 posts)
54. he should have had a plan
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:08 AM
Aug 2015

That addressed Black people's situation from the get go. He could have had people like Cornell West help him, but he got idngnanant and said he did not offer the apology to BLM himself.

DonCoquixote

(13,615 posts)
58. no answer and a whine
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:09 AM
Aug 2015

was all Bernie offered until BLm made him whip up a plan in a hurry, a plan that should have been prepped long before.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
64. The Waste Land
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:18 AM
Aug 2015

I. The Burial of the Dead

April is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.
Winter kept us warm, covering
Earth in forgetful snow, feeding
A little life with dried tubers.
Summer surprised us, coming over the Starnbergersee
With a shower of rain; we stopped in the colonnade,
And went on in sunlight, into the Hofgarten,
And drank coffee, and talked for an hour.
Bin gar keine Russin, stamm’ aus Litauen, echt deutsch.
And when we were children, staying at the arch-duke’s,
My cousin’s, he took me out on a sled,
And I was frightened. He said, Marie,
Marie, hold on tight. And down we went.
In the mountains, there you feel free.
I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter.

What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow
Out of this stony rubbish? Son of man,
You cannot say, or guess, for you know only
A heap of broken images, where the sun beats,
And the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief,
And the dry stone no sound of water. Only
There is shadow under this red rock,
(Come in under the shadow of this red rock),
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.

T. S. Eliot

delrem

(9,688 posts)
105. Now you know what it's like to be at the receiving end of that kind of dissembling.
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 04:26 AM
Aug 2015

On my side, it's been the "I'm a Bernie supporter, but..." followed by slander after slander. Esp. suggesting that Bernie Sanders and supporters are somehow racist and --- "eeeeyeugh! I can't associate with flat out white supremacists."
The best are by DUers who fly a Bernie avatar. Oh, they're GOOD! Of the good ones the most excellent are the ones that explain just how despicable Bernie Sanders supporters are.

So for sure I know how low this editorial comment goes.

More interesting yet, that kind of no-brainer sloppy thinking is run by "comment is free" at The Guardian.

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
83. yes, I really give a fuck what someone who lives 5000 miles away, who's attacked Democrats before,
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 02:55 AM
Aug 2015

thinks.

DesertFlower

(11,649 posts)
102. that's insane. hillary knew what she
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 04:06 AM
Aug 2015

was facing when he decided to run. even though i'm a bernie supporter i want her to stay in the race.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
119. Checked out some of this author's other work....
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 08:54 AM
Aug 2015

She is a crap writer. She is no "fan" of Hillary's. She is a fan of Putin however.
"the suicide of a close aide" - yeah right Mary, keep on with the right-wing-nut-job bullshit.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
122. i always look articles that start with
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 09:03 AM
Aug 2015

"i am a (name) supporter, but....."

that said, a couple of good points were raised

the country has bush/clinton fatigue

hillary has too much baggage to win a ge

a revolution is happening which she can't appropriately represent because of her corporate ties and support



Godhumor

(6,437 posts)
125. "As the frontrunner by a massive plurality, I feel I have no choice but to step down"
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 11:23 AM
Aug 2015

That would be an interesting speech, for sure.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
129. I can see your point
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 11:54 AM
Aug 2015

I should vote for a candidate who will not inspire hatred from Republicans, a candidate who carries no baggage the GOP can exploit. So I should vote for.... um... a Republican!

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