As a Bernie Sanders supporter, lemme tell you. Joe Biden is more conservative than Hillary.

[gobears10]

Last edited Sun Aug 2, 2015, 05:06 AM - Edit history (1)

At least as of now. Hillary in 2008 (and before) was an unabashed, Third Way DLC corporatist. Very close to Wall Street, pretty militarist. She approached politics from the center of the party. Obama ran to the left of her, and so did Joe Biden in 2007 and 2008.

But now, Hillary has "updated" her positions (whether or not you think she's being sincere or not is up to you), and she's moved much more to the left. Her views are definitely to the right of Elizabeth Warren and most members in the Congressional Progressive Caucus, but she's basically aligned ideologically with establishment liberals like Nancy Pelosi. Hillary, with her "updated" positions on Wall Street reform, middle-class economics, mass incarceration, LGBT rights, immigration, and trade put her to the left of Third Way centrist "New Democrats" in Congress (like Ami Bera, Kathleen Rice, etc.), and center-right Blue Dog Democrats like Joe Manchin.

Hillary said she'd most likely vote no on the trade authorization, and is waffling on the TPP, although she's claimed she's critical of it. She said she'd go further than Obama on immigration. She's also less into Common Core, standardized testing, value-added analysis to base teacher evaluations on test results, and so forth. So Hillary is to the left of the Obama administration on education reform.

Joe Biden, meanwhile, is fully with President Obama, blatantly promoting the TPP at the moment, putting him to the right of Hillary. Unless if he "updates" his positions if he jumps into the 2016 primaries.

You can say that Hillary is lying, or she's faking her "liberalism," but the fact is, her current proposed policy preferences are genuinely liberal, while the Obama administration isn't doing a lot of very liberal stuff.

Having said that, my candidate is still Bernie Sanders by a mile. He wants to reinstate Glass-Steagall, have a $15 national minimum wage, do single-payer healthcare, raise marginal tax rates above 50%, vigorously oppose the TPP, oppose the Keystone XL pipeline, do a carbon tax, expand Social Security, make public universities tuition free, impose a financial transactions tax, and incentivize worker cooperatives. Bernie's consistently been a progressive for over 50 years on a whole range of issues, so he's irresistible to me. He's more progressive than Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Martin O'Malley, Jim Webb, and Lincoln Chafee without a doubt. That's why Bernie's my number 1 candidate BY FAR.

Martin O'Malley is my 2nd choice. Hillary is my 3rd. Joe Biden my 4th. Lincoln Chafee my 5th. And Jim Webb my 6th.

[Maedhros]

1. Agreed, on all points. [n/t]

[Juicy_Bellows]

2. I'd be surprised if he throws his hat in the ring. nt.

[VanillaRhapsody]

3. Shhhhh....don't ruin their perfectly good narrative...

Some already think Martin O'Malley is to her left and I have no doubt soon someone will say that Jim Webb and Lincoln Chaffee are as well....some will not let decades of history to the contrary stand in the way of a perfectly good narrative......

[gobears10]

4. O'Malley was DLC Third Way for a long time

...until recently. Now he wants to reinstate Glass-Steagall, oppose the TPP, have a $15 minimum wage, and a public option for healthcare. He has detailed plans for criminal justice reform and environmentalism. At the moment, he's slightly to the left of Hillary, but he's not been consistent in his progressive views, and he had to "update" his positions for the election.

My preferences go down like this

1.) Bernie Sanders BY FAR
2.) Martin O'Malley
3.) Hillary Clinton
4.) Joe Biden
5.) Lincoln Chafee
6.) Jim Webb

[VanillaRhapsody]

5. Uh no...O'malley is also NOT to her left...

Ask Marylanders my friend...

Also see http://ontheissues.org/martin_O%60malley.htm

[gobears10]

6. O'Malley...

was NOT to Hillary's left for the vast majority of his political career.

But his stated positions are to her left on Wall Street, trade, minimum wage, and healthcare.

Hillary Clinton hasn't proposed a public option to healthcare. She ruled out reinstating Glass-Steagall. She's not pushing for a $15 national minimum wage. She hasn't committed to opposing the TPP.

Right NOW, with their current stated positions, O'Malley is slightly to Hillary's left.

But you are right, O'Malley is an opportunist: he was a Third Way centrist Dem for much of his career, and only updated his positions in the 2016 primaries because he thought he saw an opening to campaign to the frontrunner's left, to be the "liberal" alternative in the race. Too bad Bernie stole that from him early on.

[VanillaRhapsody]

7. No he isnt....

Http://ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.org

[gobears10]

8. you're not making much sense

that political compass doesn't take into account o'malley current positions for POTUS.

[VanillaRhapsody]

10. No your narrative that she is some rightwinger...

Is what isnt making sense....

O'Malley is not to her left....history just doesnt show that even with his current run at POTUS

[gobears10]

11. huh?

I never said Hillary is a rightwinger. You're putting words in my mouth

I'd say it goes like this:

Sanders is left-wing
Martin O'Malley is center-left (slightly more so than Hillary)
Hillary Clinton is center-left
Joe Biden is center/fully pro status quo
Lincoln Chafee is center (slightly to the right of Joe)
Jim Webb is (center-right)

Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, Marco Rubio, etc., those guys are right-wing
Ted Cruz, that dude is FAR RIGHT.

I don't think you understood what I was saying.

[VanillaRhapsody]

13. Uh nooooo

You are wrong...facts are facts....she is NOT Center Right...never has been....



And this has been a perfect example of that "perfectly good narrative" I was talking about...

[gobears10]

14. what the heck??

can you not read?

I said she was CENTER LEFT. Jesus. You are being willfully ignorant at this point.

[beam me up scottie]

15. Don't waste your time, gobears10.

That one doesn't play well with others.

They just came back from forced vacation and obviously haven't learned a damned thing.

[VanillaRhapsody]

17. What did I learn?

That some people just cant handle the truth and will gang stalk Democrats to silence them when they burst thier narrative bubbles...

Again...in nobody's world is O'Malley to HRC's left...

[beam me up scottie]

18. Obviously nothing since you're still spamming the board with those charts.

[VanillaRhapsody]

19. Oh now history is spamming?

Its called "their records" aka history. But to those with preconceived narratives...I guess truth would sure "feel like" spam.

[artislife]

30. That's it Beam,

We are voting for Jack Nicholson

[VanillaRhapsody]

16. She is not THAT either...

Does that look even close to Center Left to you?

Martin O'Malley is far closer to Center Left than she is...by far

[NCTraveler]

23. I think overall, as you are stating here,...

You are correct when looking at them in a relative manner. I do think I would put O'Malley a little further left than you. I think his platform is being completely omitted as you are evaluating him. Still I think you are really accurate here overall.

[KittyWampus]

26. You've been told REPEATEDLY that O'Malley was not ever "DLC THIRD WAY". The facts don't support you.

That you decide to continue pushing this, even though multiple O'Malley supporters have debunked this time and again totally ruins your credibility.

Because you aren't making a mistake.

[FSogol]

32. Totally false: "O'Malley was DLC Third Way for a long time"

O'Malley was asked, but did not join that group. He has spoken in front of them on occasion.

Nothing in his record of progressive accomplishments says DLC or 3rd way. Stop spreading misinformation.

[jfern]

9. I'm not sure if he's more conservative

But it hardly matters which of them is more of a neoliberal when we have Sanders.

[MisterP]

33. he's often to the right of Reid--but again it's pretty clear that the sudden talk of Biden

is a way to save the party structure's chestnuts when the whole thing might be about to go up in smoke: Biden can be liberish but plays the game that trends towards making politics into an empty screaming match between corporatists who promise it'll rain gumdrops if you vote them; Sanders identifies problems in language everyone understands, proposes solutions that have worked or are otherwise good and useful, and has a solid record that doesn't need delirious Oedipal doublethink to read over

[NobodyHere]

12. Biden and Clinton both voted for the Iraq War

Fuck them.

[classykaren]

24. Agree

[joshcryer]

20. Biden is more conservative than 2008 Obama, Edwards, Clinton.

Combining all of their most liberal positions.

And he's probably not going to run anyway.

[Reter]

21. He's still a better person, less corrupt, and much more honest

n/t

[NCTraveler]

22. I have mentioned a couple of times...

I have mentioned a couple of times that an easy argument can be made that he is more conservative on economics than Hillary. Some disagreed. Not sure how as they refused to elaborate. Overall, they are two peas in a pod. That is why many Sander supporters want him in and is really why he won't get in unless Hillary takes a hit she can't recover from. He is a Democratic Party team player.

I was told by a Sanders supporter that they might have to reconsider their support if he were to get in. It left me scratching my head. If Hillarys negatives were too much for them, and Biden was their guy, they would have gone to Webb or Chaffee before Sanders.

[Scuba]

25. Joe Biden has to bear a major part of the blame for Clarence Thomas being on the SCOTUS. DQ.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/anita-hill-clarence-thomas-biden-hearing

Anita Hill, the woman who accused Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas of sexual harassment, on Thursday said that as chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Vice President Joe Biden did a "terrible job" overseeing Thomas' confirmation hearings in 1991.

Hill said on HuffPost Live that Biden failed to call witnesses and experts to testify who could have shed light on the sexual harassment claims made about Thomas.

“I think he did two things that were a disservice to me, that were a disservice more importantly to the public," Hill said. "There were three women who were ready and waiting and and subpoenaed to be giving testimony about similar behavior that they had experienced or witnessed. He failed to call them."

[NYCButterfinger]

27. Biden is a Blue collar liberal. He can win Ohio.

Biden helped Obama win Ohio. It was a tough state for Obama to win.

[MBplayer]

34. THIS

Out of all the candidates, Joe connects the best with the target markets we need in order win the general.

#Draftbiden

[fredamae]

28. Oh, yes...I fully agree.

Joe is one of the Sweetest guys out there..however, I would (could)never support his policies.
Like so many others who have been "there" too long...he's running on "political auto-pilot" and like most everyone else in the old guard...I believe he Forgot Why He Went There in the First Place!
Biden is a Huge fan of the WoD's...Cannabis Prohibition-Instead of seeing this, rightfully, as a Medical/Public Health matter..he supports the idea that The solution Is Law Enforcement, Arrest, Courts and Private Prison Industry!

[NorthCarolina]

29. Sanders is still the only progressive in the race, and that will remain true

whether Biden enters the race or not.

[dreamnightwind]

31. I rec'd, cause I agree with the Biden part

but IMO it's lunacy to allow Hillary to claim the newly progressive stands she is talking about. I'll count them as legitimate parts of who she is when she has established a record of fighting hard for them, of going up against power to win concessions for, not from, the people.