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Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:22 AM

Sanders and O'Malley were ambushed

Although some have said that the events were planned, it appears from the tape that neither O'Malley nor Sanders were informed. Bernie makes a comment about having been given 15 points to make his statements and answer questions, and O'Malley is taken completely by surprise. It's fine to have a PLANNED event, but schedule the timing and let the candidates know. To ambush them is counterproductive to the message. Either candidate would likely have been happy to participate in the BLM "session", and its placement between the two candidates, with both present, would have been very interesting and a fruitful dialogue could have been had. Instead, they are invited onto the stage as if the focus is to be on them, as the candidates, and then they are effectively pushed aside.

In other words, with the way this was handled by the organizers, it looks as though there was NOTHING that either candidate could have said or done at that moment that would have led to a fruitful dialogue as opposed to chanting over their honest attempts to get to the heart of the matter.

As for Bernie's continual focus on the economy, that IS critically at or near the heart of many racial tensions--a lack of jobs means a fight for jobs. Unfortunately, we still haven't gotten over the stigma that not having a job brings, so people who are not working are treated as lazy. With the unemployment figures for blacks the highest in the country, this situation feeds old stereotypes. Fixing the unemployment problem, fixing the incarceration program, higher wages, access to education--all these are structural problems that can be fixed and will play a role in diminishing racism, as people stop feeling threatened by what another might take away. (I am not talking about the rabid right--I don't know that there is anything that can help, beyond the elimination of Fox, a complete overhaul of the Texas Board of Education, and a couple of generations of better education.)

* end of rant *

206 replies, 11311 views

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Arrow 206 replies Author Time Post
Reply Sanders and O'Malley were ambushed (Original post)
flor-de-jasmim Jul 2015 OP
bravenak Jul 2015 #1
scarletwoman Jul 2015 #8
bravenak Jul 2015 #9
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #12
bravenak Jul 2015 #17
RiverLover Jul 2015 #22
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #26
bravenak Jul 2015 #27
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #30
bravenak Jul 2015 #32
London Lover Man Jul 2015 #93
bravenak Jul 2015 #95
Red Knight Jul 2015 #89
bravenak Jul 2015 #91
Red Knight Jul 2015 #96
bravenak Jul 2015 #100
Red Knight Jul 2015 #144
hedda_foil Jul 2015 #175
zappaman Jul 2015 #182
bravenak Jul 2015 #184
zappaman Jul 2015 #186
SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #205
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #47
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #101
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #130
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #133
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #136
left-of-center2012 Jul 2015 #25
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #28
bravenak Jul 2015 #29
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #35
bravenak Jul 2015 #36
Scootaloo Jul 2015 #177
Cha Jul 2015 #119
quickesst Jul 2015 #66
zappaman Jul 2015 #185
Cha Jul 2015 #106
bravenak Jul 2015 #109
Cha Jul 2015 #121
Gman Jul 2015 #76
bravenak Jul 2015 #78
Gman Jul 2015 #118
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #134
MADem Jul 2015 #108
Gman Jul 2015 #117
PotatoChip Jul 2015 #146
Gman Jul 2015 #157
PotatoChip Jul 2015 #165
zappaman Jul 2015 #187
MADem Jul 2015 #103
brentspeak Jul 2015 #140
Post removed Jul 2015 #192
MohRokTah Jul 2015 #142
stevenleser Jul 2015 #172
notadmblnd Jul 2015 #178
lovemydog Aug 2015 #206
ladjf Jul 2015 #2
BeyondGeography Jul 2015 #4
ladjf Jul 2015 #5
BeyondGeography Jul 2015 #10
ladjf Jul 2015 #15
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #13
ladjf Jul 2015 #19
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #21
magical thyme Jul 2015 #40
bravenak Jul 2015 #42
magical thyme Jul 2015 #51
bravenak Jul 2015 #56
magical thyme Jul 2015 #59
bravenak Jul 2015 #62
HFRN Jul 2015 #80
bravenak Jul 2015 #86
HFRN Jul 2015 #87
bravenak Jul 2015 #90
HFRN Jul 2015 #107
MADem Jul 2015 #113
MADem Jul 2015 #112
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply .
bravenak Jul 2015 #114
HFRN Jul 2015 #122
MADem Jul 2015 #124
HFRN Jul 2015 #125
MADem Jul 2015 #126
840high Jul 2015 #179
nc4bo Jul 2015 #195
zappaman Jul 2015 #189
Alexa100 Jul 2015 #65
HFRN Jul 2015 #110
MADem Jul 2015 #116
mcar Jul 2015 #120
BuelahWitch Jul 2015 #127
stevenleser Jul 2015 #167
BuelahWitch Jul 2015 #168
stevenleser Jul 2015 #170
BuelahWitch Jul 2015 #171
Kalidurga Jul 2015 #152
mcar Jul 2015 #159
Kalidurga Jul 2015 #160
BuelahWitch Jul 2015 #169
heaven05 Jul 2015 #57
magical thyme Jul 2015 #60
heaven05 Jul 2015 #67
magical thyme Jul 2015 #72
heaven05 Jul 2015 #84
magical thyme Jul 2015 #88
heaven05 Jul 2015 #98
magical thyme Jul 2015 #143
heaven05 Jul 2015 #55
MohRokTah Jul 2015 #145
Maedhros Jul 2015 #188
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #52
magical thyme Jul 2015 #63
heaven05 Jul 2015 #54
BooScout Jul 2015 #3
djean111 Jul 2015 #6
sufrommich Jul 2015 #16
bravenak Jul 2015 #18
sufrommich Jul 2015 #20
bravenak Jul 2015 #24
sufrommich Jul 2015 #31
GoneFishin Jul 2015 #97
heaven05 Jul 2015 #49
HFRN Jul 2015 #73
bravenak Jul 2015 #75
840high Jul 2015 #181
840high Jul 2015 #180
Raine1967 Jul 2015 #23
Dr Hobbitstein Jul 2015 #39
bravenak Jul 2015 #46
udbcrzy2 Jul 2015 #64
Arkana Jul 2015 #70
MADem Jul 2015 #123
HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #151
MADem Jul 2015 #153
HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #155
MADem Jul 2015 #161
HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #162
MADem Jul 2015 #164
Divernan Jul 2015 #135
840high Jul 2015 #183
Sheepshank Jul 2015 #147
MADem Jul 2015 #154
Cosmocat Jul 2015 #7
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #14
Cosmocat Jul 2015 #193
Betty Karlson Jul 2015 #37
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #11
RiverLover Jul 2015 #33
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #34
Betty Karlson Jul 2015 #38
heaven05 Jul 2015 #45
bravenak Jul 2015 #48
Bobbie Jo Jul 2015 #58
magical thyme Jul 2015 #44
whathehell Jul 2015 #201
heaven05 Jul 2015 #41
cantbeserious Jul 2015 #43
Scuba Jul 2015 #50
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #68
Scuba Jul 2015 #156
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #158
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #173
mmonk Jul 2015 #53
Triana Jul 2015 #61
truebrit71 Jul 2015 #129
Arkana Jul 2015 #69
HFRN Jul 2015 #71
raindaddy Jul 2015 #74
bravenak Jul 2015 #81
raindaddy Jul 2015 #83
bravenak Jul 2015 #85
raindaddy Jul 2015 #92
bravenak Jul 2015 #102
yourout Jul 2015 #111
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #128
yourout Jul 2015 #137
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #141
Sheepshank Jul 2015 #149
raindaddy Jul 2015 #148
nc4bo Jul 2015 #196
wilsonbooks Jul 2015 #77
bravenak Jul 2015 #79
jalan48 Jul 2015 #82
colsohlibgal Jul 2015 #94
ibegurpard Jul 2015 #99
NCTraveler Jul 2015 #104
jberryhill Jul 2015 #131
NCTraveler Jul 2015 #138
jberryhill Jul 2015 #150
BainsBane Jul 2015 #199
jberryhill Jul 2015 #200
Zorra Jul 2015 #202
NCTraveler Jul 2015 #203
artislife Jul 2015 #105
MisterP Jul 2015 #163
artislife Jul 2015 #166
Maedhros Jul 2015 #190
gollygee Jul 2015 #115
tymorial Jul 2015 #132
fredamae Jul 2015 #139
Babel_17 Jul 2015 #174
RandySF Jul 2015 #176
Maedhros Jul 2015 #191
Stellar Jul 2015 #194
RiverLover Jul 2015 #197
Stellar Jul 2015 #198
Name removed Jul 2015 #204

Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:28 AM

1. You guys have got to stop this. It makes you look bad.

 

He has to be able to handle criticism without his supporters turning off the entirety of the black electorate.

Is this cryfest helping to draw more support? No. Stop. Figure out how to deal and find out why it turned out like that.

I'll give you a hint. If Bernie had black folks on his campaign, he would have KNOWN that was going to happen. I knew and I'm no fucking body. I read twitter. Black twitter. Anyone can view. Since I read things that black people say, I knew that they were going to do that. I keep trying to tell people that bernie needs black folks around to win blavk voters over, but I keep getting lectured on civil rights and Dr, King and how LUCKY I'd be to have Bernie as my president!! So condescending. All this aunt pitty patty stuff looks terrible. 'Those unruly negores ambushed him!!!' That's what we see when you all write this stuff. This is me helping you get it.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:42 AM

8. But ya gotta understand!

We white folk are aggrieved, aggrieved, I tell you! Attention must be paid!!!!

(gads I just want to stab my eyes out when I read some of this stuff...)

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #8)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:44 AM

9. I keep hoping that it's performance art.

 

It has to stop before I rip my face off. They just go on and on. Victims.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #9)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:58 AM

12. I keep hoping it's

Republicans being paid to ratfuck Bernie with the black community. Sadly, I'm sure most of it is thoughtless outrage from actual folks on the left.

(Edit to avoid confusion: I'm referring to the outrage diaries and comments here, not the protest.)

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #12)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:02 AM

17. Paid trolls? Anything? I hope it's a strange thing that will pass in the light of Monday.

 

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #12)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:07 AM

22. "ratfuck Bernie with the black community" is what #BLM did, despite the fact he's in their corner.

To the uninformed, it makes him look like a racist because why would they protest him if he wasn't a racist?

That's a way to get out the vote & get people in office who will actually DO something for PoC! Makes all the sense in the world.

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #22)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:12 AM

26. I support ANY effort that gets more voters to tell ANY politician that votes have to be EARNED.

Even if it's a candidate I favour.

The only way we actually get BETTER candidates, who actually DO things for us when they get in office is to demand that they actually earn our votes. BLM has said this is just the beginning. I will applaud all the harder if they chivvy every candidate from here til the end of the primary and beyond.

I want Bernie to win, but I want him to DESERVE to win. And BLM is pressing him to be a better progressive.

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #22)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:12 AM

27. Puhleeze! He shoud have hire some black staff. Like I have said a jillion times.

 

And his supporters can stop being all Miss Millie about this and try to learn something from it.


Now, going back to Robinhood, Men in Tights.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #27)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:14 AM

30. Is that the Cary Elwes one?

Or however his name is spelled? He was in a surprising number of good movies.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #30)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:16 AM

32. Yep. It was the end. I love him.

 

The Princess Bride... I even bought the book. Love him!! My favorite blond besides Ivan Drago.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #32)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:13 AM

93. Ivan Drago?

 

Are you referring to Dolph Lundgren?

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Response to London Lover Man (Reply #93)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:18 AM

95. YES

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #27)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:04 AM

89. Well we've had a black AG and a black president.

Did it make a difference? I get that black people want to see more black faces around him but ultimately when it comes to fixing the actual problem it means less than what he would do.

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Response to Red Knight (Reply #89)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:09 AM

91. That has fuck all to do with it.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #91)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:19 AM

96. That's the point.

Nm

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Response to Red Knight (Reply #96)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:21 AM

100. I'm going to eat some cake now.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #100)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:26 AM

144. I'll have ice cream.

Nm

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Response to bravenak (Reply #27)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:00 AM

175. ^^^^ bravenak ^^^^^

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Response to bravenak (Reply #27)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:09 AM

182. Robin Hood Men In Tights???

I worked on that movie way back when.
93 thereabouts?

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Response to zappaman (Reply #182)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:10 AM

184. Love it! Awesome movie!

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #184)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:11 AM

186. ..

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Response to bravenak (Reply #27)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:18 AM

205. "He shoud have hire some black staff."

Assuming he hasn't by this point, completely agree. He's a fool if he doesn't. Hope he isn't a fool.

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #22)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:47 AM

47. This comment/question here ...

 

, it makes him look like a racist because why would they protest him if he wasn't a racist?


Betrays a complete lack of understanding of the nature of racism.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #47)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:23 AM

101. And a complete lack of understanding of who the protestors are, and what they're protesting. nt

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #101)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:09 AM

130. +1 ... There is not a lot that we agree on; but, here, we are in complete agreement! n/t

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #130)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:12 AM

133. I suspect we agree on a lot more than either of us know.

But we disagree a lot of tactics, strategy, messaging, and so on. Ie, we disagree on politics, not on underlying justice and injustice.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #133)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:13 AM

136. True ... So, true. n/t

 

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #12)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:11 AM

25. Republicans being paid to ratfuck Bernie with the black community.

Or did Hillary do this?

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #25)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:13 AM

28. I'm talking about all of the outrage diaries, not the protest.

I applaud the BLM folks for demanding that candidates earn their votes.

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #25)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:13 AM

29. Hillary Hillary Hillary!! She does not control black people!! We are not robots!!! Damn!

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #29)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:26 AM

35. Methinks the bravenak doth protest too much...

Cylon!

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #35)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:28 AM

36. Lol!!

 

Maybe I'm the leader of this mission?!?

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #35)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:14 AM

177. Methinks you don't know what you're talking about

 

When Clinton has to face the same protestors doing hte same thing at one of her events, bravenak will be saying the same thing she's saying right now.

On the other hand? There's very definitely a contingent of people here who are basically just cynical opportunists for clinton, who will absolutely condemn and spit on these same protesters, should they target Clinton.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #29)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:49 AM

119. Hillary did it from Arkansas! Are they nuts?! Don't they have a clue that Tia Oso and the

activists of #BlackLivesMatter don't let other people do their thinking for them.

Netroots Notebook: Sanders Slips, O'Malley Misses, #BlackLivesMatter Wins

by Jason Johnson

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/reporters-notebook-sanders-slips-omalley-misses-blacklivesmatter-wins-n394746

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #25)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:17 AM

66. hahahaha...

FEELTHEBERN/2016

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #25)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:11 AM

185. Hillary fer sure!


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Response to bravenak (Reply #9)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:32 AM

106. That reminds me of AngryBlackLady's tweet that is said to have started the #berniesoblack hashtag..

Imani Gandy ‎@AngryBlackLady

If I see one more Bernie acolyte mention that he marched with MLK, I'm going to burn the Internet to the ground. @EdDescault @Eclectablog
4:23 AM - 19 Jul 2015

That @AngryBlackLady tweet, sent out to her 35,000 followers, inspired Roderick Morrow—who runs the “Black Guy Who Tips” comedy podcast with his wife, Karen—to launch the mocking hashtag #BernieSoBlack:

Morrow, who goes by @rodimusprime on Twitter and has more than 11,000 followers, said he was surprised his impromptu hashtag suddenly took off. “I just thought it was a funny joke!” he told The Daily Beast. But he added that his lighthearted jab was rooted in a serious concern about Sanders’s candidacy.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/19/blacktwitter-turns-on-bernie-sanders.html

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Response to Cha (Reply #106)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:37 AM

109. I hope she burns it! Burn it down!!

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #109)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:51 AM

121. rofl

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:42 AM

76. White progressives know more than anyone whats best for you and me

Just ask them, they'll tell you. Wait, don't ask. They'll tell you anyway whether you want to hear it or not. And you don't have time to hear it all.

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Response to Gman (Reply #76)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:44 AM

78. They never stop.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #78)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:48 AM

118. Amen

"Overbearing" hardly begins to describe it.

And it's almost ironic that these same folks, bless their pointy little heads, that scream louder than anyone about white privelege in fact use their white privilege to tell everyone what's best. And don't get that that's what they're doing.

Now I'm as white as they come, but the thing that makes me cringe most when talking to these folks is when I hear them say "I don't see color in someone." Now, to me, that's denying one of the things that makes that person unique. It's a part of the identity of who they are. Well intentioned but kinda clueless.

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Response to Gman (Reply #118)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:12 AM

134. That right there is why whenever I refer to (DU) "progressives" ...

 

I use quotation marks.

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Response to Gman (Reply #76)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:36 AM

108. But ask CAREFULLY, and gently, now!!

They're sensitive, and fragile, and their feelings might be hurt if you are too aggressive in your questioning!


because, well ... they're sensitive, and fragile, etc.

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Response to MADem (Reply #108)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:47 AM

117. LOL!

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Response to Gman (Reply #76)


Response to PotatoChip (Reply #146)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:45 PM

157. Good article that frames the issue well

I like the line "It's like they're trying to out-Black us." Ain't that the truth.

The Sanders campaign obviously needed a 2x4 upside the head. And think they may be getting it with mentioning the name of Sandra Bland the next day. But I'm not sure his supporters will ever get it.

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Response to Gman (Reply #157)


Response to Gman (Reply #76)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:16 AM

187. Nailed it.

But those white progressives talk to people in the AA community...all the time!

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:23 AM

103. +1,000,000. nt

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:22 AM

140. This from the anonymous poster who advocated racial rioting, looting, and violence

You're not a good candidate as someone who anyone here should take seriously on the topic of making oneself "look bad".





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Response to brentspeak (Reply #140)


Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:26 AM

142. The ones on Twitter ding this resulted in #blacktwitter going with #berniesoblack

 

And then they went even further off the deep end.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 04:41 PM

172. But how can you expect a Presidential candidate to be able to roll with the punches? It's not fair!!

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:04 AM

178. Once again you are absolutely right Bravenak

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 05:19 AM

206. You are correct.

It's a shame it falls on deaf ears.

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:29 AM

2. It strikes me as odd that Bernie, who has a lifetime record of

supporting black American causes, was chosen by BLM to be the first Presidential candidate to be shouted off the stage.
He was already their strongest ally. What about the dozen of so Republican Candidates.

The BLM has warned that they intend to shutdown other political rallies.

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Response to ladjf (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:33 AM

4. O'Malley was the first

It was his biggest accomplishment on Saturday. Don't deny it to him.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:35 AM

5. Don't deny what to whom? nt

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Response to ladjf (Reply #5)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:53 AM

10. It's called humor

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:02 AM

15. Glad to hear that humor was your point.

My problem with your comments was that I wasn't sure whether you were referring to O'Malley or Sanders. I didn't understand what constituted "greatest accomplishment".

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Response to ladjf (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:59 AM

13. 'What about the dozen or so Republican Candidates'?

What, the troupe of clowns who won't get anywhere near the WH? Why would they even bother?

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #13)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:04 AM

19. To me it appears that by shouting Democratic candidates off the stage,

BLM is helping the Republican Candidates.

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Response to ladjf (Reply #19)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:07 AM

21. To me, it just points out nobody even wastes their times with those RW bozos. nt

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #21)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:45 AM

40. and then when those RW bozos end up in office, everybody cries about them. nt

 

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #40)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:46 AM

42. That bitter threat is not helping. Let US ignore you or the republicans will beat you.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #42)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:52 AM

51. that wasn't a bitter threat. it was a fact. O'Malley and Bernie haven't ignored anybody

 

and just look at how much the RW bozos in congress have already done, not to mention the RW presidents.

I'm all for protests. But when you take over rallies and don't allow the candidates to answer your questions, you're doing everybody a disservice, including yourself.

If they want to hear answers, they need to learn when to stop shouting and start listening. Here is a hint: that's usually immediately after they have asked their question. Stop shouting and let the candidate answer the question. If you don't like what you hear, then at least you'll be in a position to ask follow on questions.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #51)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:57 AM

56. Fact is, you NEED black voters. Might be a good idea to stop trying to piss them off.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #56)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:02 AM

59. I'm not trying to piss anybody off. If you're getting pissed off, that's your issue not mine.

 

And if they were pissed off at O'Malley and Bernie, they should have told them why they were pissed off instead of just shouting at them.

In any event, I'm done with this on DU. I've sent my comments directly to BLM. They can make of the what they will.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #59)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:07 AM

62. I am pissed.

 

You guys never listen to one word that the black people here say. Never!!! I told you all!!! Nobody wanted to hear me. I'm trying to tell you now that getting pissy with BLM will just turn black folks off and Hillary will cha cha slide right into th white house. Let it go. Learn from this. Listen to us when we tell you what black folks think. We kinda are the black people you sprnd the most time with. We are helping you by telling u. Let it go. Make friends with BLM. Do not start a war over this with BLM or black twitter. I have watched this before. You will not come out looking good at all.
I want white people to listen to their black friend, me, and just chill.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #62)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:45 AM

80. if others arent hearing what you want them to hear from you

 

you might take a look at how you're saying it

that's what i do, when i have that problem, which i do from time to time

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Response to HFRN (Reply #80)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:54 AM

86. They don't want to hear what black people think. Why do you think there are so FEW here?

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #86)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:02 AM

87. 'They don't want to hear what black people think'

 

so you're saying that they don't know, or want to know, what black people think. But *you* already know, and therefor do not need to hear, what they think. is that correct?

but more to my point - in your 'i am pissed' post, a few posts up thread, you use multiple exclamation points a few times. I have yet to see multiple exclamation points produce a positive result in electronic communications at any time, ever. You can demand that it should all you want. But it won't happen, or at least itf it did, it would be the first time I ever saw it happen

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Response to HFRN (Reply #87)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:08 AM

90. I am saying exactly that. They don't know and don't wanna know.

 

It will work cause they'll see today that they are acting up and not winning over black people by bombarding BLM and black twitter with bitterly nasty tweets on how dare they oppress Bernie, after all he's done for you people.

And exclamation point are mine to use. Back up off my punctuation before I get madder. Stop the lecturing about punctuation. White people constantly do that without even thinking to check themselves. You think I don't know that more exclamation ponts won't win the argument? What do you think, you're schooling me? See what I mean? I do not need your help. I do not need a grammar teacher. I fucking know how to write Damn! Can't take a damn day off from tyring to TEACH black people stuff? Shit!

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Response to bravenak (Reply #90)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:33 AM

107. there's a classic cartoon

 



my point being, the anonymity of the internet is actually an opportunity to test some things about how others react to one's self without others having any idea about what race you are (or anything else about you, either) - to test how much of one's experience is about race (admittedly, much of it is) vs one's own choice of behavior/manners.

in most things on the internet, people have no idea what race I am

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Response to HFRN (Reply #80)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:43 AM

113. "We don't like your TONE" is really not a good argument to make in this circumstance. nt

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Response to bravenak (Reply #62)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:42 AM

112. What's wrong with you, GF!! You're PISSED?

Why aren't you GRATEFUL? After all, you'll get the crumbs from the feast AFTER BLM helps the hero ascend the throne!

And don't speak too HARSHLY, now...you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings!!!!



ing, because if I don't, I'd be ing.....

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Response to MADem (Reply #112)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:43 AM

114. .

 



It was the conspiracy theories that really pissed me off.

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Response to MADem (Reply #112)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:51 AM

122. straw man arguements are a concession that you dont have a good rebuttal

 

when you have to resort to putting your own words in someone else's mouth, rather than debate what they actually said

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Response to HFRN (Reply #122)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:54 AM

124. Is your name Bravenak? Or do you feel a need to ANSWER for HER, too?

Is your irony meter broken, there, along with your spell-check?

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Response to MADem (Reply #124)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:56 AM

125. we're hit the maximum intendation on replies in this thread

 

so my apologies, if i mixed up who was responding to who

(see how helpful a softer tone can be?)

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Response to HFRN (Reply #125)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:00 AM

126. Tone arguments do not fly when they're used to stifle appropriate indignation and frustration.

"Angry black woman" and "scary black man" tropes just don't work as a push-back tactic anymore. You can mash that button all day, that elevator ain't coming when called.

Enough is more than enough. It's past time people started not just listening, but HEARING what is being said to them.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #62)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:05 AM

179. I listen to what black

 

people say in my neighborhood - here not so much. DU is a tiny fragment of the black population.

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Response to 840high (Reply #179)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 08:48 AM

195. It's what they say behind your back and out of earshot...

There are some things that black people feel comfortable only discussing with other black people. I don't know your race. I happen to be black and I can assure you it's true.

I'm sure there are some things that white folk feel comfortable only discussing with other white folk. I'm not white but can bet with the best that this is also true.

Lesson is, don't get too comfortable in thinking you KNOW what's up with folks, unless you are "one of them" you only know what they WANT you to know.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #62)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:18 AM

189. + a fucking 1000!

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #51)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:11 AM

65. talk instead of shouting

"
If they want to hear answers, they need to learn when to stop shouting and start listening. Here is a hint: that's usually immediately after they have asked their question. Stop shouting and let the candidate answer the question. If you don't like what you hear, then at least you'll be in a position to ask follow on questions."


Thank you !!

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Response to Alexa100 (Reply #65)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:38 AM

110. that's everyone's pet peave

 

being asked a question, then not allowed to answer

bullying, by any definition

[Alexa, you are nothing, if not laconic, 4 posts in 3 years)

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Response to HFRN (Reply #110)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:46 AM

116. No one gets "shouted down" on the internet, though.

Not to be a spelling noodge, but it's PEEVE.

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Response to Alexa100 (Reply #65)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:49 AM

120. Did you offer the same advice

to Code Pink, OWS and other activists?

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Response to mcar (Reply #120)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:04 AM

127. Did they shout down Progressive candidates?

If so, who? I know Code PInk went after war mongers. OWS received horrible treatment for going after Wall Street. I don't think you can compare them to what happened on Saturday.

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Response to BuelahWitch (Reply #127)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 03:27 PM

167. And this is the key. You don't care about their issue, you care that they affronted your candidate

If you stopped to think about that a little bit, you would probably get what a lot of folks are trying to tell you.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #167)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 03:36 PM

168. You don't know shit about what I care about

I asked a question of the poster above and you decided to make this about me. Like all the other Hilary supporters, you are dancing with glee about this. I doubt you care about their issue as well, but it makes your candidate look good, so you can be all smug about it.

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Response to BuelahWitch (Reply #168)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 03:38 PM

170. Yes, I do, because it comes out in your writing. You're dismissing the BLM folks because they

sinned against Bernie.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #170)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 03:41 PM

171. Maybe they will "sin" against Hilary next

and then we'll see what an "ally" you are.

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Response to mcar (Reply #120)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:28 PM

152. Oh dear...

I saw plenty of criticism of Code Pink's tactics I am not sure I was a member here at that time, but on other sites definitely. I saw a lot of critics here criticize OWS, they didn't like the bridge and street blocking and they thought the tents were stupid among other things. Protesters are rarely given much respect even from Democrats.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #152)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:49 PM

159. I don't recall seeing any OWS criticism on DU

Code Pink, yes. I was more directing my question to the poster telling BLM to quiet down.

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Response to mcar (Reply #159)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:50 PM

160. I did see it.

I read here daily often several times a day. I was also subscribed to the group and critics would actually post in there.

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Response to mcar (Reply #159)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 03:37 PM

169. There was some

Not a lot, but some.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #40)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:58 AM

57. is that a wish or a fear

just a question. I'm serious.....

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #57)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:05 AM

60. after the damage that W brought? seriously?

 

I desperately fear another RW president. seriously.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #60)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:20 AM

67. Hey okay

Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:44 PM - Edit history (1)

just asking a question, seriously.....I love #Black Lives Matter and I mourn all from Emmett Till to Sandra Bland. And I'm tired of adding names to a list that shouldn't even be a list in this land of the free, (for some privileged) and home of the brave(who slam the heads and bodies of women to the ground). Yepper. Just checking.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #67)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:34 AM

72. I agree 1,000% with what BLM is trying to do. I don't agree with how they did it at Netroots Nation

 

and I fear that if they continue to not allow candidates to speak, it will be very damaging.

Yes, candidates need to be prepared to be attacked. They expect it from the other candidates. They expect it from the opposition. They expect it from the opposition's supporters.

But this was an ambush of "friendly fire." I still was ok with it right up and until they shouted O'Malley down when he tried to answer their question. That is when they lost me.

And I'm shocked at the spin I just read, claiming that the candidates in question haven't spoken to this issue in any of their speeches.

I haven't followed O'Malley, but what Bernie said that night in Phoenix was practically verbatim what has been in his prior speeches and talks.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #72)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:51 AM

84. fine

Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:47 PM - Edit history (1)

you're entitled. Yet Bernie, O'malley, HRC in the WH.....a job will not stop the racist murders and that is what #Black Lives Matter demonstrated about. "Lost you"? Okay. Sandra Bland had a job. She still ended up dead for improper signaling. Killed? By a racist person or persons unknown. How does the viciousness of that escape the intellectuals on here? JOB security and defeating economic injustice did not help her. Can you deal with that? I know what Sanders said in Phoenix later and that's just a start. From Emmett Till(I remember my parents talking of that murder by the privileged of that day) to Sandra Bland, same intellectualized counsel on patience, how to demonstrate, whom to demonstrate against and when. It has NEVER been different, ever. Be calm, your piece of pie in the sky is coming.......guaranteed. Just ask Emmett Till and all others to Sandra Bland, so far.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #84)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:04 AM

88. so what did shouting down O'Malley accomplish?

 

did it change his thinking about how to address the murder of blacks by white cops? we don't even know what his thinking is. We can look up history and see what O'Malley did in the past, in Baltimore. Is there anything he would do differently, given a chance? We don't know because he didn't get to talk about it.

Do you know what Bernie's strategy is? Don't answer "create jobs" because that is just 1 piece of his more comprehensive strategy. He has other pieces, but nobody got to ask about them. (Hint: it has to do with returning to community policing, de-militarizing the police, training, etc.).

They succeeded in bringing their issue to the front. I just hope that in future rallies, which they've apparently announced they intend to take over from here on out, that they will let the candidates actually answer their questions.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #88)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:20 AM

98. Been talking for years

Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:54 PM - Edit history (1)

nothing has changed. What don't you understand about that fact. I'll wait until one of them in is the main office in D.C to really see what the talk translates to in regard to #Black Lives Matter. All my responding to intellectual blather is not going to create justice or policies to generate justice and equality. If what Sanders says and promises, he does, if he makes it to the WH, then it will be a start. Action, not words speak the loudest. #Black Lives Matter actions are speaking and going to continue speaking the loudest. It is time for action, not just promises and words. From the present administration to the new administration, if it is 'Democratic'. Concise action and policy(s) to address RACIAL injustice is what really matters. SANDRA BLAND had a job.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #98)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:26 AM

143. Sanders has done what he could in the position he was in.

 

"It is time for action, not just promises and words."

I'd say it's long past time for action.

"BLM's actions are speaking and going to continue speaking the loudest."

Which is just words, only louder.

From what I've read, Bernie met with their representatives after. I have little doubt that he will have listened.

If I had the opportunity to speak to Bernie, I'd suggest that when he's addressing BLM protesters, start with his statements recognizing police brutality and the mass incarceration of blacks, present his strategy as a multi-pronged approach, lead what he can do in the WH to specifically address police brutality and the incarceration of black people, and finish with the economic side of it.

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Response to ladjf (Reply #19)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:56 AM

55. is that a fear or a hope

just a question, really...I'm serious.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #13)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:28 AM

145. #blacklivesmatter would get closer to their goals shouting at a brick wall than they would

 

by going after the Republicans.

Nope, it has to be the Democrats. The Democrats are the only candidates equipped to address the problem.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:17 AM

188. What about the sitting President and AG?

 

Since they actually are in office, and in position to do something about this RIGHT NOW, it would seem prudent to put the most pressure on them.

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Response to ladjf (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:53 AM

52. If someone would take a moment to listen to what BLM said ...

 

they were speaking to more than Bernie (and O'Malley) ... their message was for the progressives (of the left), that's why the cose NRN, rather than, the Bernie event scheduled for later in the evening.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #52)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:09 AM

63. it is very hard to hear on the tapes. I listened & couldn't understand more than 50% of their words

 

if that much, and couldn't figure out any of the meaning, other than when they were calling the names of the murdered black people. Even then, I could only decipher the names I was already familiar with. I did think I heard mother fucker this and mother fucker that in some of their chanting, but couldn't even be sure of that.

Indoor venues don't work well for shouting and chanting because of the way the sound echoes.

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Response to ladjf (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:55 AM

54. yeah, yeah, yeah

okay........

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:31 AM

3. No....they were ill prepared

Netroots Nation has a well known history of interrupting and heckling politicians who are guest speakers. They have interrupted politicians before including Bill Clinton and Nancy Pelosi.

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:39 AM

6. I believe BLM is partially funded by George Soros, who is quite adept at having demonstrations

 

planned and executed. All over the world. Civil unrest. No, I am not saying that this is not a valid and terrible and legitimate problem, I am saying that this was carefully executed, and that it will be interesting to see which other candidates get ambushed. Soros backs Hillary.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:02 AM

16. Oh my God. Really people?

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #16)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:03 AM

18. I cannot handle this. Soros soros soros!!!! Sounds like Rush or Hannity.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #18)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:06 AM

20. This last couple of days on DU have been a real eye opener.

As I said in another post,I've never seen anything like it before.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #20)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:10 AM

24. I have NEVER seen the like!! This is just about as bad as it gets. Oh the humanity!!!

 

Makes me ready to move to Westeros where things are simple.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #24)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:15 AM

31. lol! nt

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #31)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:19 AM

97. Yeah, totally preposterous. Because nobody ever attempted to manipulate public opinion. Coo-coo for

coa-coa puffs.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #20)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:50 AM

49. I have

both in under the radar times and openly like the last few days here, for 50 years. Just got worse when Obama got elected, then reelected.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #18)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:34 AM

73. I agree that 'Soros' tends to be a RW talking point

 

but is it really that different than talking about 'The Koch Brothers'?

they're both politically active Billionaires

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Response to HFRN (Reply #73)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:36 AM

75. This has to stop.

 

It's making even me crazy.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #75)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:09 AM

181. Then don't read it.

 

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #16)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:07 AM

180. Yes - really.

 

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Response to djean111 (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:10 AM

23. Is this satire?

I really hope this is satire.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:44 AM

39. Glenn Beck, is that you?

Seriously, has George Soros become a boogeyman of the far left now?

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #39)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:47 AM

46. Does Obamacare cover CT? These conspiracies seem to spread like viruses.

 

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Response to djean111 (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:10 AM

64. #CutTheCheck

 

We had paid protesters in Ferguson, not sure of their funding though.


Rice said Ordower told the protesters that the money had come from private donors and was supposed to help support the movement.

Protesters provided Ordower with a list of organizations that should receive some of the money. But he rejected it, Rice said, and then delayed meetings with protesters.

On May 14, a group of protesters from different organizations showed up at MORE’s offices on North Skinker Boulevard.

Snippets of video began to appear on Twitter under the hash tag #CutTheCheck, showing a group of familiar faces from the protests in Ferguson occupying MORE’s offices and demanding that Ordower release the money.


http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/ferguson-protesters-disagree-over-who-should-receive-donations/article_c51ff000-7579-5db4-95f2-27f5f3c2e19d.html

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Response to djean111 (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:23 AM

70. Free Republic's thataway.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:52 AM

123. You are repeating a WASHINGTON TIMES conspiracy that has been de-bunked by SNOPES.

Now, ask yourself where you got that piece of sh... errrr, information, and maybe question why the site/individual where you got that bit of (cough) material (cough) would want to put that idea in your head....?

Hmmmm. You, yes YOU, may have been FUDded!!!

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Response to MADem (Reply #123)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:25 PM

151. Wrong. Snopes found true that Soros Foundation is funding Black Activist groups...

 

...who use the money for a variety of purposes. What they found untrue was that Soros was personally over-seeing what groups and how much were funded.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #151)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:28 PM

153. WRONG--Snopes found FALSE that he was funding PROTESTS, and that's what you are insinuating, here.

People can click on SNOPES and read the big lie contained therein--they can also find the WASHINGTON TIMES (right-wing, nut-job, sick-o newspaper) that was the source of that BLATANT falsehood.

That is a rightwing trope. Worthy of Free Republic or worse, not DU.

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Response to MADem (Reply #153)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:39 PM

155. HERE is what snopes says:

 

"TRUE: A grant making network founded by George Soros provided funding to some groups that engaged in Ferguson-related protest activities"

"False: George Soros gave money to various groups for the express purpose of promoting Ferguson-related protests and riots"

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/sorosferguson.asp

Despite being repeatedly provided the link, you continue to be deliberately untruthful.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #155)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:51 PM

161. You're damn right. FALSE. What part of that word is unclear to you?

Now read the whole piece at SNOPES--and everyone else reading this thread, please do so as well.

This Soros Funds Protesting Black People bullshit is a STORMFRONT topic of conversation--so yeah, keep dragging that shit in here.


FROM SNOPES:

Here's the BIG LIE:

According to various alarmist reports, Soros himself virtually single-handedly enabled and promoted protests connected with the Ferguson shooting because some of the groups involved (tangentially or otherwise) with activism-related events received some portion of their funding from the OSF network...

And here is the refutation of the BIG LIE:
...taking that information and converting it into the assertion Soros himself funded Ferguson-related protests and riots is problematic for a number of reasons. Although George Soros is the founder and chairman of OSF, he quite obviously does not personally oversee and approve every single grant made by the OSF network to the multitude of
organizations and programs that the network helps to fund. As well, the $33 million figure includes just about every organization with any connection to Ferguson-related activism that received monies from the OSF network, even if their involvement was tangential (such as publishing, writing, or promoting hashtags about the issue). And that such groups may have received part of their funding from the OSF network doesn't mean those funds were given for the specific purpose of organizing Ferguson-related protests, or with the knowledge or intent they would be used thusly.

As Kenneth Zimmerman, director of OSF's U.S. Programs observed, some of the groups involved have been receiving OSF funding since long before the Ferguson shooting was a political issue, and the OSF itself did not promote or direct Ferguson-related protests....

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/sorosferguson.asp#xFzM01Fob7Mr1MFW.99



So when are you going to retract your untrue statement? You shouldn't repeat falsehoods on DU.

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Response to MADem (Reply #161)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 01:01 PM

162. What part of TRUE don't you comprehend?

 

It's right there, I even quoted it. You continue to be deliberately untruthful.

What snopes found true was that a George Soros foundation funded groups that engaged in protest related activities. Those activities can include printing signs and leaflets, acquiring video equipment, buying Internet time, providing food and water to protesters, providing first aid to protesters, etc.

What snopes found false is that George Soros personally funded groups for the express purpose of protesting or rioting.

There is a distinction between the two that you are deliberately ignoring and misrepresenting.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #162)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 01:05 PM

164. I've provided excerpts from SNOPES to show that your framing is FALSE.

When are you going to retract your claims?

Straight from the WASHINGTON TIMES, that's where that shit you're shopping is coming from.

SHAME on you.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:13 AM

135. djean111, 5 votes of support from jury; alerter, 1 vote

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

this person is claiming that the #blacklivesmatter movement is actually a front group for rich billionaires. That is crazy talk and incredibly offensive to African-Americans

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:11 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Then expose it as crazy talk-- don't claim offense and try to quash it.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #135)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:10 AM

183. Good results.

 

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Response to djean111 (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:59 AM

147. How did you find this out?

 

for reals.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #147)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:32 PM

154. The Moonie Times had a false article making the claim...SNOPES debunked it.

That is the source of the Nile. The right wing blogs (and ONLY the right wing blogs) have repeated it.

It popped up around the time Ferguson hit the news. Pretty sick.

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:41 AM

7. Bernie's economic platform

is SPOT on, exactly what this country needs to start to balance out the corporatist swing we have taken.

That said, while the paradigm is totally opposite, his messaging is the same as the republicans when it comes to minorities, particularly blacks.

They just spew their trickle down bullshit and sit around flummoxed how them there minorities just won't get on board 100 percent like their tribe does because things will magically get better if we just deregulate EVERYTHING, don't tax the super rich and kill every social support program they can get their hands on.

Again, before Bernie folks get deranged, while his economic vision would be good for everyone, just saying that does not address the audience at hand with minorities in a POLITICAL environment.

What Rs do for their base is feed them red meat 100 different ways.

I get, and like his laser like focus on the fundamentals.

But, like it or not, people are people, and in politics, in elections, there are strong tides that are shifted based on political messaging.

It is still a white person telling minorities that addressing an economic system they view (for good reasons) works against them is the answer to their problems.

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Response to Cosmocat (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:01 AM

14. +all.

Messaging matters. Tone matters.

Nobody wants to hear it when I say it about them, but maybe they'll be willing to hear it when I say it about candidates.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 07:53 AM

193. BTW

thank you for this response ...

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Response to Cosmocat (Reply #7)


Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:56 AM

11. Get over it.

Guess what? Once he's President, he's going to have to face a lot more 'ambushes', from all directions. Life doesn't announce itself.

Just be glad it's early in the season, so he's still got time to figure out what specific ideas he's got to work on ending police violence and sending police who do murder and brutalize to prison.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #11)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:17 AM

33. You really think what #BLM did will help get Bernie elected? Wow.

This past wkd, btw, would have been an excellent time for #BLM to have an actual dialogue with Bernie & O'M. You know, tell them "what specific ideas (they want them) to work on ending police violence and sending police who do murder and brutalize to prison."

But instead they just screamed & allowed the press to portray OUR candidates as racists.

NN planned ambush was an epic fail.

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #33)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:24 AM

34. If he rises to the challenge? Absolutely.

Right now, as the polling shows, Hillary has the PoC vote on her side. BLM just handed Bernie the keys to the electoral kingdom, if he can figure out how to use them. He fumbled the handover, but he's got time to figure it out and start working on what ACTUALLY matters to Black America.

What people care about is not always what other people think they care about. BLM just told Bernie exactly how to win large chunks of the AA vote, if he's willing to take it seriously and actually work with it, rather than merely trying to tack it on to the message he's passing to white Americans.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #34)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:36 AM

38. This is as spot-on as Mr. Sanders analysis of the systemic injustice in our economy. n/t

 

Last edited Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:31 AM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #34)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:47 AM

45. "figure out how to USE them"

instead of how to WORK with them.....hmmmmm...telling.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #45)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:48 AM

48. The keys. Use the keys.

 

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #33)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:59 AM

58. The height of arrogance.

Doubling down
Tripling down

Do you really not see how bad this looks?

Unbelievable...

Keep it up.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #11)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:47 AM

44. I suspect he already has specific ideas to work on ending police violence, but I'm glad it's early

 

in the season too. It gives him time to boil it down to a 1/2 sentence soundbite (which is how much speaking time they allowed O'Malley) to maybe get the protesters to quiet down enough to actually listen.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 03:22 PM

201. You get over it.

:

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:45 AM

41. sure were

and neither one was good enough or fast on their feet enough to find the a way to deal with that ambush. I am glad it happened. I was able to see the real O'malley and Sanders in a tense situation and howe able to deal or not with it.

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:46 AM

43. All Too True

eom

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:50 AM

50. It won't matter a whit in the long run. Bernie's message is consistent as is his ...

 

... long record on civil rights.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #50)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:21 AM

68. That's his biggest strength, AND his biggest weakness.

Different audiences need to hear different messages. AND to have actions behind those messages.

Bernie's standard message is great for lots of folks. But it's not enough for everyone.

Don't just write off chunks of the electorate. That's a losing strategy. Take them seriously, and find the message they need, and the actions to back up that message.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #68)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:43 PM

156. I agree with everything you wrote; I didn't mean to imply that the BLM issue didn't matter ...

 

... only that the so-called "ambush" won't matter in the long run.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #156)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:47 PM

158. I think it's a wonderful opportunity.

Far too often, politicians simply seem to stumble around in the dark trying to figure out how to win votes.

Bernie just had it handed to him, exactly how to win away large chunks of the Obama alliance for his own. He just has to work with the community now to come up with specific policies to address the articulated need.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #158)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:11 PM

173. I hope you are right. nt

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 08:54 AM

53. You have to understand no one outside the campaigns is interested in what they really have to say.

Sanders, for example, had been talking about the issue before NN. Also, there is nothing in his background to indicate he isn't sympathetic to the problem. It's best to move forward and Sanders and O'Malley handle it as to their positions on the issue.

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:06 AM

61. Sanders has stronger civil rights record than all other 2016 candidates . . .

 

. . . and he gets his candidacy trashed by BLM folks.

I can't with that.


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Response to Triana (Reply #61)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:08 AM

129. Yup...

 

Staggeringly short-sighted...

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:23 AM

69. A planned event with scheduled timing?

I dunno...that sounds awful like Hillary to me. You wouldn't want Bernie Sanders to look scripted, would you?

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:31 AM

71. anyone who chooses to hear Bernie knows that nobody goes under the bus

 

he is for fairness to *everyone*, even the wealthy, although some wealthy will resent additional prosperity coming from creating value instead of the easier squeezing of the lower 99 percent

I say let Bernie be Bernie, he's been his own person this many years, why ask him to change now - those who choose to hear will know that he's going to give everyone a fair shake at nobody else's (unfair) expense, and those who don't hear that aren't going to hear it no matter what he says

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:36 AM

74. BLM Ambushed Themselves

If the purpose was to drowned out the one candidate who really wants to put and end to the class warfare that has been waged on the poor and middle class in America then mission accomplished..

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Response to raindaddy (Reply #74)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:46 AM

81. "AFTER ALL HE'S DONE FOR YOU PEOPLE!!!!"

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #81)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:50 AM

83. That's not what I said...

Shooting the messenger never accomplished anything...

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Response to raindaddy (Reply #83)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:53 AM

85. That's what is sounds like. Refine the message.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #85)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:12 AM

92. I'm fine with the original post, along with my response..

Showing up at a rally to repeatedly shout down a candidate who is already sympathetic to your cause even after you've been promised that he will respond to your questions makes no political sense.

Maybe you can explain how placing candidates who already what to change a racist system that favors corporations and Wall Street banks over the welfare of the poor and middle class in an impossible position was a success...

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Response to raindaddy (Reply #92)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:23 AM

102. I'm not.

 

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Response to raindaddy (Reply #74)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:38 AM

111. +1.......IMHO THE biggest factor keeping the black community....

from advancing is economic policy.

Outsourcing, H1Bs, and union busting have had a huge hand in the plight of the minority community.

Which candidate would fight the hardest to even the playing field?

Think about it.....

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Response to yourout (Reply #111)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:06 AM

128. How humble is that opinion?

And are you part of the black community?

Why not ask THEM what they consider their biggest problems to be at the moment?

I'm not black, but I have a hunch, it might be the fact that it seems to be 'open season' on killing black people and getting a paid vacation for it, without indictments or convictions.

Maybe they'll be more willing to pay more attention to economics AFTER they're not being gunned down on a daily basis?

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #128)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:17 AM

137. I agree but for me it's a chicken or the egg question. In this country money = power....sadly.

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Response to yourout (Reply #137)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:23 AM

141. chicken or egg is a loser for us. We've got to turn it into walk and chew gum.

We can't put one before the other, we've got to do both at once. It's a challenge and an opportunity at the same time.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #128)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:07 PM

149. How does economic advantage stop Cops from Shooting unarmed black persons?

 

sheesh......

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Response to yourout (Reply #111)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:05 PM

148. Exactly...

So let's arrange a protest and drowned out his message... Make lot's of sense.

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Response to yourout (Reply #111)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 08:57 AM

196. And what about Sandra Bland? She was on her way up & out

And what did SHE get for her economic progress?

Dont worry, it took me awhile to finally "get it" too. But I "got it" now and realize those who screamed that social injustice and economics are two separate issues were spot on.

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:42 AM

77. When King And Johnson Joined Forces To Fight The War On Poverty

The Poor People’s Campaign was motivated by a desire for economic justice: the idea that all people should have what they need to live. King and the SCLC shifted their focus to these issues after observing that gains in civil rights had not improved the material conditions of life for many African Americans. The Poor People’s Campaign was a multiracial effort—including African-Americans, whites, Mexican-Americans, Puerto Ricans, and Native Americans—aimed at alleviating poverty regardless of race.

According to political historians such as Barbara Cruikshank, "the poor" did not particularly conceive of themselves as a unified group until President Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty (declared in 1964) identified them as such. Figures from the 1960 census, Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S. Commerce Department, and the Federal Reserve estimated anywhere from 40 to 60 million Americans—or 22 to 33 percent—lived below the poverty line. At the same time, the nature of poverty itself was changing as America's population increasingly lived in cities, not farms (and could not grow its own food). Poor African-Americans, particularly women, suffered from racism and sexism that amplified the impact of poverty, especially after "welfare mothers" became a nationally recognized concept.

By 1968, the War on Poverty seemed like a failure, neglected by a Johnson administration (and Congress) that wanted to focus on the Vietnam War and increasingly saw anti-poverty programs as primarily helping African-Americans. The Poor People’s Campaign sought to address poverty through income and housing. The campaign would help the poor by dramatizing their needs, uniting all races under the commonality of hardship and presenting a plan to start to a solution. Under the "economic bill of rights," the Poor People's Campaign asked for the federal government to prioritize helping the poor with a $30 billion anti-poverty package that included, among other demands, a commitment to full employment, a guaranteed annual income measure and more low-income housing. The Poor People’s Campaign was part of the second phase of the civil rights movement. King said, "We believe the highest patriotism demands the ending of the war and the opening of a bloodless war to final victory over racism and poverty".

King wanted to bring poor people to Washington D.C., forcing politicians to see them and think about their needs: "We ought to come in mule carts, in old trucks, any kind of transportation people can get their hands on. People ought to come to Washington, sit down if necessary in the middle of the street and say, 'We are here; we are poor; we don't have any money; you have made us this way...and we've come to stay until you do something about it.'"

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Response to wilsonbooks (Reply #77)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:45 AM

79. I love white people lecturing about Dr. king. It's damn irritating but they swear they NEED to do it

 

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:48 AM

82. It seems a better approach would have been to point out the things Obama has done to deal

with the issue. They could have then asked the candidates if they agree or disagree with his approach. Obama is the sitting President and is probably more sensitive to the issue than any President in history. Also, Obama is able to actually deal with the issue now, he has the power. Why wait two years until a new President is elected?

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:17 AM

94. A Rising Tide Lifts All Boats

I've listened to Bernie for years and have heard him address racial issues.

The agenda Bernie has put forth should help us all, black or white.

Bernie I believe took part in the push for racial justice etc back in his youth.

I'm not sure about O'Malley, I don't know that much about him.

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:20 AM

99. they'll get over it

Black lives matter is bigger than any candidate and anyone who looks to use this for purely political advantage will get their ass handed to them.

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:27 AM

104. I find it hard to believe you don't see how bad this looks.

Ambushed by a bunch of minorities. An ambush is what happened in the SC church. Not what happened to two rich white men at this event.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #104)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:10 AM

131. How "rich" is Sanders?


I'm finding a net worth of $460,000 https://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/summary.php?cid=N00000528&year=2012 . In all likelihood, the bulk of that is a paid-off house.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #131)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:18 AM

138. Exactly. Wealthy. nt.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #138)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 12:16 PM

150. He bought 85 acres in Vermont for $2500 in the sixties


I do not think you understand the concept of "net worth". The value of his property went up. That does not mean there are piles of money laying around.

A 73 year old man who owns his own home is "wealthy"?

Yeah, a regular Donald Trump he is.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #150)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 02:45 PM

199. Which he sold years ago.

I read something about his wife getting a considerable sum of money from a college she worked at. I don't recall the details, but they have a combined family income.

By standards of average Americans, both of those men are rich. I don't, however, think that's why it looks bad. It looks bad because it seeks to delegitimate an activist movement that is fighting against an epidemic of police killings of African Americans.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #199)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 02:54 PM

200. income and net worth are two different things


At his age, and given a total net worth of $460k and change, the largest component of his net worth is going to be his house.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #138)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 03:33 PM

202. Hillary Clinton's net worth: $21,500,000

That's wealthy

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Response to Zorra (Reply #202)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 03:39 PM

203. That's wealthy. nt.

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:27 AM

105. THESE THREADS NEED TO DIE

I swear-----GET OVER IT.

I think Bernie is the best candidate on the table


But some of you whiney, dumb, and tone deaf Bernie supporters are making it hard to support him.

He doesn't need protecting.

If you waved a confederate flag, you wouldn't be more offensive.

STOP

Listen to the one or two AA posters we may have still on this site after all the teeth gnashing that has been done.

If you don't know any, go to the AA group to look at names

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE--Post anything. That is a hallowed space. It is not for you to "share" an opinion.

Listening is an active.

Try to WANT to understand

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Response to artislife (Reply #105)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 01:04 PM

163. you don't know what any of the people you're attacking are

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Response to MisterP (Reply #163)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 03:20 PM

166. are....? I am interested

I don't get what you mean exactly.

Do you mean that the people who are hurt because Bernie didn't get to speak are right?

Do you mean that the people who are offended by white tears or white priviledge are right?

This is an honest inquiry.

I posted this because I see this huge ripping of the left by people who just won't consider that they know best and that listening to what was being said is out of the question.

In thread after thread after thread.

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Response to artislife (Reply #105)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:22 AM

190. Whiney? Dumb? Waving a Confederate flag?

 

Do you have any idea how offensive you are?

GOODBYE.

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:45 AM

115. It's a protest

Protests are messy.

He was not prepared but he has a great opportunity now to step up and talk about what happened and about that movement in a way that brings people of color more into his campaign. He will be in the news and will have to say something. He can respond wonderfully.

I wonder who he has in his campaign advising him on issues regarding people of color. He could use more help in this department. My guess is that Clinton, after screwing up with people of color in the last election, has hired a person (or even a team) to help her know how to repond to things like this well. He can do the same.

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:11 AM

132. I'm really getting tired of

Identity Politics.

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Mon Jul 20, 2015, 11:20 AM

139. Again....Democracy is Not always

quiet, PC, proper and steady.
Sometimes in a Working and Effective Democracy---it gets Noisy, Loud, Contentious, Humbling, Raw and Very Real.
Wake up, please.
I, personally....stand With these protesters - Did anyone Listen to what they had to Say? Isn't That the "hot issue" even over the Venue? They Captured our Attention. This (and Many more) discussion/debate Would. Not. Have. Happened. Otherwise.
They were Successful.
I think the responses after....in and of themselves are very revealing about our own "blinders"
Wake up, please. We have a National Human Rights Crises and it is an Emergency.

Geez, how many times and How many Decades can "we" simply tell Any Oppressed group to Sit down...be patient...we know and we'll get to you soon" - when "soon" NEVER gets here...How can "we progressives" be so complacent about that?
It's Not "ok" for us to continue to "go along with the status quo" as if WE too are just "sheep" following those who keep breaking promises to address this on Many, many different fronts.
Sure, it's the "easy way"..but it is Wrong.

I can't do much where I am......but I started calling senate members today to Demand Action toward Ending "Legalized" Police Abuse and Murder.....

It Is lawmakers who created this environment. They need to be held accountable too and in the meantime..they Must Fix this Crises-Immediately.
I cannot stand by and do Nothing. Not anymore.
We're wasting time trying to analyze this whole thing..when, imo...Action, en masse', is required because our fellow Americans, our friends and our family members are in Deep, deep trouble.....
Get busy, please.

just my opinion(s)

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:01 AM

174. Wouldn't be good theater without the scripted surprise

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:04 AM

176. You must not have been around for the days of ACT UP

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:23 AM

191. It's not the protest that is the problem, it's the cooptation by those who use the event

 

as a bludgeon.

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 08:35 AM

194. Please tell me what has this - - ->

"""As for Bernie's continual focus on the economy, that IS critically at or near the heart of many racial tensions--a lack of jobs means a fight for jobs. Unfortunately, we still haven't gotten over the stigma that not having a job brings, so people who are not working are treated as lazy. With the unemployment figures for blacks the highest in the country, this situation feeds old stereotypes. Fixing the unemployment problem, fixing the incarceration program, higher wages, access to education--all these are structural problems that can be fixed and will play a role in diminishing racism, as people stop feeling threatened by what another might take away. (I am not talking about the rabid right--I don't know that there is anything that can help, beyond the elimination of Fox, a complete overhaul of the Texas Board of Education, and a couple of generations of better education.)"""


Got to do with this- - - ->

#BlackLivesMatter is focused on individual cases and victims

The #BlackLivesMatter movement has its roots in campaigns in response to the deaths of particular young black men and women: Trayvon Martin, Renisha McBride, Eric Garner, Michael Brown. Those responses have grown into a sustained call for change in police/community relations and use-of-force policies, and for the media to be more respectful of black victims. But the focus on individual cases has remained — both as a way to remind America of the actual victims of the status quo and to demand justice for individuals at the local level.
http://www.vox.com/2015/7/21/9010871/bernie-sanders-sandra-bland


BLM are basically talking about our brothers and sister being murdered by police with impunity. And most of you are talking about bread and butter issues which are important too but how will that help all the African Americans that are being killed.

Maybe Bernie can talk about body camera's and real training for police. And not rehire cops that have been let go from other police duties or departments to find themselves back in the same BS where they've killed another weaponless black person.

It makes one feel as though you don't want to listen, or don't care. Some of you only think we all must want the same things but apparently not.

eta: There was no need for 'rant'....as my son would say, it's the three 'L's' - Look, Listen and Learn.

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Response to Stellar (Reply #194)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 09:09 AM

197. Thank you. This is the first time I've heard a reasonable, do-able answer to what #BLM wants.

Its too bad something like this couldn't have been discussed reasonably at Netroots with the candidates.

But I hope someone from Bernie's team, & O'Malley's, reads it now.

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #197)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 10:22 AM

198. #BLM has only been talking about it on the news for almost two years.

I prefer Bernie but as dire as things are, they may take the first Democratic candidate that comes along that takes up their cause.


Maybe I know how long it's been because it's of great importance to me.

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)

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