DETERMINED, STEADY KUCINICH QUADRUPLES SUPPORT

[ConservativeDemocrat]

From the DU article of the same title in 2007:

DETERMINED, STEADY KUCINICH QUADRUPLES SUPPORT
Submitted by davidswanson on Wed, 2007-12-05 19:49. Elections

By Joe Shea and Ted Manna, American Reporter


BRADENTON, Fla., Dec. 5, 2007 -- It's been a long time coming. Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH, 10th), the former mayor of Cleveland who is serving his fifth term in the House of Representatives has quadrupled his standing in the polls, according to the current USA Today/Gallup Poll.

The poll of Democrats and those leaning toward the Democrats in the 2008 presidential election shows Kucinich tied with Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE), the well-known chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and New Mexico's Gov. Bill Richardson; he is far ahead of second-generation Conn. Democrat Sen. Chris Dodd.

Rep. Dennis Kucinich has started emerging from the margins and polls show his popularity up sharply as voters respond to a populist message aimed at working Americans.

Among progressives, according to a presidential straw poll released today of 15,000 members of the grassroots Progressive Democrats of America (PDA), Kucinich is far stronger than the rest of the Democratic field. Kucinich placed first in the poll with 41 percent of the vote; his nearest competitor was former Sen. John Edwards, with 26 percent. Among other candidates, only Barak Obama, with 13 percent, scored double digits in the poll.

These improvements come as Kucinich's message of competence, integrity and foresight is reaching a wider audience through the multiple debates sponsored by the parties, CNN, YouTube and the major television networks.

Yes indeed, and we have President Kucinich now to thank, as he hands the nomination off to his political protege Bernie Sanders.


- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[MannyGoldstein]

1. So PDA = New Hampshire?

Oh boy!

And Kucinich had 10,000+ Midwesterners show up to a speech? Do you have a link?

[Fuddnik]

3. I've known Kucinich for years, and I love him, but....

Dennis never on his best day, ever had 10,000 people at a speech.

Sanders is a movement. And it's growing daily. And it will win.

The Third-Wayers, aka, Conservadems on hallucinogens, to quote Ralph Reed, won't know they're dead until they're in the body bag. Sorry for quoting a douchbag, but it firs.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

48. Yes there's a big difference

yes Bernie's is a movement and it's moving

[cantbeserious]

2. Always The Naysayers - Very Predictable

eom

[Indepatriot]

4. If I'm not mistaken, HRC was "Mrs. Inevitable" when this was published....

Yes indeed, and we now have President Hillary Clinton to thank, as she hands the nomination off to her political protege........ ....

[JI7]

5. OBama is going DOWN at 13 person

HAHAHHAHAHHA

[shenmue]

32. What?

[Bonobo]

6. LOL, you sound sceeeered!

[AgingAmerican]

7. That meme fizzled out a few weeks ago

nt

[anti partisan]

8. Feels good to be in the opposite camp of a self-proclaimed conservative

Sanders has what percentage of votes in Iowa? Can you compare it to Kucinich's peak and be intellectually honest here?

[Kalidurga]

9. lol

[sabrina 1]

10. Why are you so scared? And why do you use a Rove quote in your sigline, Conservative

Dem?

Btw, it was 13,000 in Madison.

Oh and btw, I love Kucinich. A great Democrat.

[wyldwolf]

12. He's just picking at you... and pointing out a basic truth in electoral politics

Each election cycle the further left (and further right) fall in love with a long-shot candidate.

Most recently - Ted Kennedy, Jesse Jackson, Bill Bradley, Howard Dean and Barack Obama. What made Obama different is he was able to put together a coalition of white liberals and African Americans. Bradley didn't. Dean didn't. The rest didn't. It's doubtful Sanders can.

Crowd sizes are an indication of absolutely nothing in primaries. Dean had crowds of over 10,000. In the 2008 Democratic primary in Pennsylvania, more than 35,000 people came to hear Obama speak in Philadelphia. Hillary Clinton won the state a few days later by almost 10 points.

I'm not disrespecting Sanders or his message. But their is some political realities and precedents that can't be ignored. No one is 'scared' as you asked. But a better question is 'why are you so confident?'

[sabrina 1]

14. He's not doing a very good job. The political reality is that this is not 2007 and Democrats have

Last edited Fri Jul 3, 2015, 06:38 AM - Edit history (1)

lost 10% of their base more than half of which are now registered Independents. THAT is the largest voting bloc in the country right now, and THAT is Bernie Sanders base. The Dem base comprises only 32% of registered voters, Sanders is already chipping at that vote. No ONE can win an election with just part of their party's base.

Hillary doesn't have crossover appeal, she will not get the Republican vote, the base of which has also shrunk to just 29%. Nor will she get the Independent vote, most of whom LEFT their parties because their parties stopped representing them.

The left Independent vote will go to Bernie, it is already happening.

And he is already attracting moderate Republicans to his campaign.

He is more than likely to get the Union Vote, VT Teachers Union already issuing an early endorsement AND the head of the powerful CWA Union just retired and joining Bernie's campaign, plus thousands of Union members now signing up for his campaign.

So to even try to compare 2007 to today? Someone is not living in the, to quote Rove again, 'living in the Reality Based Community.

I enjoy these kinds of posts they make me laugh and everyone needs a good laugh every once in while.

[wyldwolf]

15. In the Democratic primaries, what do Independents have to do with anything?

Democrats have lost 10% of their base more than half of which are now registered Independents.

So for the sake of argument - and just taking your word for it since you didn't provide a source for that figure - Democrats have lost 10% of their 'base' and 5% of those are now Independents.

ok.

No ONE can win an election with just part of their party's base.

Millennials Favor Hillary Clinton in Harvard Poll

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-04-29/millennials-favor-hillary-clinton-in-harvard-poll

Eighty four percent of Democrats, including Seventy seven percent of self-identified "liberals" have a favorable opinion of Clinton

http://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2015/04/02/National-Politics/Polling/question_15558.xml?uuid=cakB0NkmEeS_C_ZIuVpkiA

Do I really need to show stats on the party's moderate voters? So who else am I missing?

THAT is the largest voting bloc in the country right now, and THAT is Bernie Sanders base.

So your contention is Independents will turn out for Bernie in the primaries then vote for the Republican if Hillary is the Dem nominee?

[TM99]

16. Or perhaps we will vote Third Party.

As Independents we are free from loyalty oaths and having to hold our noses to vote for the lesser of two evils.

I will vote Sanders in the Primary. If he doesn't win, I won't be voting for Clinton in the general if she does.

[wyldwolf]

18. bookmarking for fun later.

[TM99]

20. And what fun might that be?

I have been very honest about my principles and political stance.

If Clinton is the nominee, I will not advocate on these forums for a Third Party candidate. Likely I will just not post for a few months, and then I will come back when she loses the general.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

46. And what will you do when she wins the general?

...as every single poll shows she is nearly a lock to do?

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[TM99]

50. I will fight her neo-liberal economic

policies and her neo-con foreign policy every fucking chance I get.

[brooklynite]

47. I'm guessing that the "fun" will involve reminding some people of the TOS...

[sabrina 1]

17. Yes Independents and moderate Republicans will register as Dems in closed primary states, to vote

Bernie then they will vote for him in the GE. Hopefully after that they will remain Dems and help to rebuild this party into the party it is supposed to be, the one that represents the people.

Millennials are flocking to Bernie's campaign. THEY are the ones driving the effort on the New Media to get him the name recognition he needs, the ONLY hurdle he has to cross. That is happening faster now with each new success and each new endorsement he is receiving.

He had zero name recognition just two months ago, now he is able to draw crowds up to 13,000 without much effort.

Bernie has between 15% - 18% of the base vote, up to 35% in some of the latest polls in Iowa and while numbers keep going up, Hillary's are going down.

Absent any nasty, personal attack campaigns, leaving this up to the people, I have no doubt that Bernie will win the primaries which is the hardest part, and then go on to the easy part, beating any one of the miserable bunch from the Repub side.

[wyldwolf]

19. Any data to support that? I mean...

... Nationally Clinton has 57% of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents behind her. Sanders trails Biden.

http://whotv.com/2015/07/01/poll-bush-trump-rising-nationally-for-gop-but-both-trail-clinton/

Absent any nasty, personal attack campaigns, leaving this up to the people, I have no doubt that Bernie will win the primaries

So you mean absent politics in general.

[sabrina 1]

25. 57% is way down from the consistent over 80% polls that were posted here regularly over

the past year. As I said, no one can win this election with only 57% of 32% of the base. Same goes for Republicans.

Iow, partisan polls reflect ONLY the loyal base. To win, candidates MUST have crossover appeal.

For the first time in many years, both parties have fewer registered voters than the what is now the largest voting bloc, Independents, which is over 42% sometimes as high as 46%.

Bernie's numbers keep climbing, so he's on an upward trend regarding the Dem base vote, as more and more people get to know him.

He is going after two very large voting blocs, the Independent vote, and NON-voters. There are no polls on these demographics yet, well, I've seen one on the Indy vote and Bernie was somewhere around 47% so far. Name recognition is going to keep his numbers rising.

Nasty personal attack ads, which Bernie will not be engaging in. Paid for by special interests, using Think Tanks and Security Contractors, which imo, should be illegal. Buying that kind of influence over our elections is one of the major issues now for many Americans. Getting the money out of politics so NO ONE can afford to buy influence.

Let the people decide by listening to the candidates, just like real Democracies are supposed to do.

The Money In Politics is going to be one of THE major issues in this campaign, because until it is removed from the system, NOTHING else can be accomplished.

This is the first time that this will be a major issue in the campaign. And the ONLY Candidate who is going to benefit from that is the ONE candidate who has removed it from his own campaign, and even without it has soured from a virtual unknown to where he is today, a viable threat to the Corporate powers who are funding everyone else in this campaign

[wyldwolf]

28. Even it was only.00001% more than Sanders, it STILL beats Sanders and debunks your truthiness

It's interesting you're admitting that Bernie will win if people don't campaign against him.

[Depaysement]

11. Posted without comment

[wyldwolf]

13. replied without comment

[Depaysement]

22. That doesn't look like Dennis

From Kucinich to Dean. Overnight.

[wyldwolf]

23. Oh, the crowd pic you posted was a Kucinich event.

[Depaysement]

24. No, it wasn't, obviously

The OP referenced Kucinich and you showed a photo of Dean, who did far better than Kucinich. Hence the reference in my post.

[wyldwolf]

26. So you can reference someone other than Kucinich but others can't?

The OP referenced Kucinich and you showed a photo of Sanders who is drawing larger crowds than Kucinish - I'm assuming as some sort of 'proof' Sanders is different because of his crowd sizes. I showed a pic of Dean demonstrating crowd sizes don't equate to electoral wins.

[freshwest]

33. I don't think so. I downloaded it to see who it was. It's BS in WI.

DK never had crowds like that. I didn't know Dean did, either. I don't think anyone had big crowds besides Obama, well, maybe Edwards. Gore had huge crowds as well.

The picture posted before yours, I can't see who it is at all. It could be Obama, but the jpeg says Sanders. I enlarged trying to see but can't see a speaker or a sign to show who they have come to see.

But if that is BS, that's so pretty good enthusiasm. Still, nothing like Obama had. Huge crowds, so much they couldn't fit in a stadium without leaving plenty outside. On college campuses or city streets, it seemed like the crowds went on forever. And some of those events were in bad weather, or they had to be held across the street, but they came for just a few minutes to cheer him on.

If this is truly BS, this is very good for the Democratic party and the ideas I believe in. But will it translate into enough votes to beat the GOP?

That's the issue here. I think any Democrat that wins will do the same things. Just sayin'

[wyldwolf]

34. Yes, Dean drew very large crowds

And my point isn't to say large crowds aren't impressive. It's to say they don't automatically equate to electoral success.

[TSIAS]

41. Santorum will be the GOP nominee

What I've heard from HRC supporters like Joan Walsh is that large crowds seem to indicate a lack of broader electoral support. Rick Santorum, with his one-supporter event last month, must be doing great in the polls if nobody attends his events.

[Divernan]

42. Yup, Joan Walsh will project Santorum as the GOP candidate!

[freshwest]

44. He was the GOP nominee from my state, but didn't survive aftter that.

[Depaysement]

36. The photo is the Sanders speech in Wisconsin

His comparison to Dean elevates Sanders into a serious contender. He doesn't get that.

[freshwest]

45. I stated it is BS in another reply. I didn't know David Swanson OP'd that at DU.

Those who liked DK knew he was a long shot.

I'm sick of the Democratic nomination horse race. I want to beat the Republican, not another Democrat. That's the goal for me, talking against another Democrat, isn't what I'm here for at all.

Many won't forgive when another tries to reconcile later after they feel personally disrespected and their issues disregarded. I'll be voting for the Democrat, not holding my nose or not voting to make a point when lives are at stake.

I no longer care who is nominated after what I've seen at DU. I don't think many care about anything but this horse race. It's not a game to some of us. The Democratic Party can run this guy, for all I care:

[hrmjustin]

51. Highly impressive.

[JustAnotherGen]

21. You survived a jury - I'm juror # 5

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Fri Jul 3, 2015, 02:48 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

DETERMINED, STEADY KUCINICH QUADRUPLES SUPPORT
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251422797

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Disruptive, divisive, flame-baity crap, quoting and identifying with Karl Rove's infamous "reality-based community": "How about this: People on juries should vote to hide the divisive flamebaity crap. Get hard-assed. Stop cutting the jerks any slack." -Skinner, May 29, ATA.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jul 3, 2015, 02:55 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree, flamebait.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's a fair point. I may not like the content or the message - but this poster has been very clear in other posts that they don't believe Sanders is viable in a general election.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Your explanation doesn't help me to see what you are going on about this OP.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Le Taz Hot]

27. I'm one of those people who thinks

posts like these should be allowed to stand on their own "merit." Turns out some of the most ardent supporters of other candidates have been great recruitment material for the Sanders campaign. I say keep up the good work, guys!

[JustAnotherGen]

35. I hate the negativity

Im just going to sit over here and watch the Sanders and Clinton supporters eviscerate each other over their respective candidate's inability to clearly articulate what they've done. If those two would be clear on all fronts - you guys wouldn't have to engage in this behavior. There's no reason under the sun for anyone to be making comparisons between Kucinich and Sanders. Unacceptable.

[99Forever]

29. So...

... why would anyone on this website give a single, solitary shit what anyone with conservative in their name has to say about anything?

[frylock]

58. spoiler alert.....

they don't.

[hootinholler]

30. Nice drive by pot shot

But what else ya got?

[Flying Squirrel]

31. I'm recommending this post

For its sheer inanity, and the hilarity of your continual claim to be reality-based (with the obvious inference that you're one of the few and proud). I sincerely hope you make it to THE GREATEST PAGE!

[muriel_volestrangler]

37. Which just says something about a few DUers and the sources they used

Yes, it was laughable to say getting 4% in a poll was 'quadrupling his support'. But that has little relation to 8 years later.

[sabrina 1]

39. Even more hilarious is that this is a Rove Quote!

[emulatorloo]

49. Sabrina, your interpretation of "reality based" is 100% WRONG

While I disagree with the posters premise, your interpretation is 100% incorrect. You seem to believe that Rove was praising people being in the "reality-based community". No he was insulting them.

Rove was making fun of an excellent journalist,. Ron Suskind, by saying the journalist was in "reality-based community." The journalist dealt in facts. Rove was essentially insulting people in the "reality-based community."

Rove went on to boast that Bushco was so powerful they could manufacture whatever nonsense they wanted [aka THE BIG LIE] and present that as "Reality"


More at link:


http://www.truthdeficit.com/karl-rove-were-an-empire-creating-our-own-reality/

KARL ROVE: “WE’RE AN EMPIRE CREATING OUR OWN REALITY”

Three weeks before W. Bush’s election for a second term in 2004, his Senior Advisor and Deputy Chief of Staff, Karl Rove, chided Pulitzer-winning journalist, Ron Suskind. Rove said:

Guys like [Suskind] were “in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who “believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” … “That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”

Readers and writers in alternative media can explain, document, and prove that much of these “created realities” are “Big Lie” crimes, objectively not even close to the foundational principle of “limited government” within the US Constitution, and “created” with whatever bullshit rhetoric their focus groups conclude most likely to sell (thank you, Professor Frankfurt, for your bestseller making BS an academic term).

[riversedge]

52. oh, now that you post this--it is coming back. I remember reading that

article about Rove!! whow. But have to admit, that I did not place the sig line from the OP. thanks.

[snagglepuss]

53. Interesting link. thanks for posting

[J_J_]

40. What has changed is...The media no longer has credibility

Some still believed the 'news' readers back when Kucinich was running.
They said he was unelectable even though he was winning all of their debates.

At this point in time, the media has lost all credibility, Millenials have turned off the tv completely.

Bernie sanders is growing by internet social media so powerfully the corporate media is forced to report on him.

The people are now leading. Finally.

[Divernan]

43. Not only milennials have turned off TV news;

I interact with a lot of well-informed people of older generations, and no one I knows watches TV news. It's all online access now.

[brooklynite]

57. Online access to WHAT?

What online resources are giving them information and are they any more accurate?

[MADem]

54. He was a sure thing!! Until he wasn't, I guess...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x146096

[AgingAmerican]

55. The desperation is palpable

nt

[kath]

56. It sure is. Then there was the thread yesterday criticizing Bernie for using the 4-syllable word

"Oligarchy".
Whewwww - that smell of desperation...

[AgingAmerican]

59. I saw that one

it was an appeal to ignorance. it is amazing how some people will throw themselves out there as intellectual sacrificial lambs.