I posted this at Discussionist for the conservatives who blame Obama for Iraq and forget history...

[EEO]

For those who blame Obama for what is happening in Iraq, some facts...

Obama wanted to keep about 10K troops in Iraq (which I admit is lower than what the Pentagon and Iraq wanted at the time), but the Iraqis would not drop their demand to have the right to charge and prosecute U.S. soldiers for crimes under their law (which George W. Bush allowed to be put in the agreement negotiated right before he left office).

The United States was not going to stay unless our troops had immunity. It tried to renegotiate that component, but the Maliki government said 'no.'

Below is a PDF of the Status of Forces Agreement negotiated by George W. Bush right before he left office, which gave Iraq authority to charge and prosecute our people.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/world/20081119_SOFA_FINAL_AGREED_TEXT.pdf

Take a look at Article 12 and Article 22.

[Buzz Clik]

1. That's a good post. But here's some advice to you:

Don't go back to Discussionist. It's filled with idiots.

[EEO]

2. Yes it is.

Good advice.

[CTyankee]

4. I left that place in disgust in short order. Good riddance to bad rubbish...

[applegrove]

3. Breamer also debathified the Iraqi army. That got rid of the sunni military

structure and institutional knowledge. Guess who are 2nd and 3rd in command of ISIS? Former Bathists. George W. Bush is responsible for all the debathification and the isolation of Sunnis by the Malaki government. Nothing to do with Obama. Just like the financial crisis, Obama is trying to clean up W's mess.

[Hoyt]

5. The majority on Discussionist are racist, and too stupid to understand your post to them.

My advice, post whatever you think of the right wingers there in as graphic detail as you like, let them hide your posts and ultimately boot you, and don't go back.

[Midnight Writer]

6. Thank You. I have an immediate use for this.

[Leith]

7. Please Don't Give Up on Discussionist

There are a lot of good people there fighting the trolls, proving our cases with facts, and exposing reichwing propaganda. I may not always be good, but that's what I do there. The trolls won't budge: they openly admit that they post just to irritate liberals (sometimes it works, but they always look stupid).

I'm not going to leave DI because I'm used to mud wrestling proverbially on other message boards and I learned to like it. Yes, there are a lot of times when I have to leave it because of the swarms of idiocy. Still, there is the charm of handing a conservative's ass to them on a platter even (especially) when they don't recognize it. The trolls won't stop and won't learn, so I don't do it for them. I do it for the casual readers, the ones who haven't jumped to one side of the fence or the other, and to support those who agree with my positions on things.

Quite frankly, we could use more like you.

[Cosmocat]

14. I don't know

I spent a lot time in the 2000s battling right wing idiots on message boards.

The problem for me is this - there is NO way to reason with them.

We sometimes fall into the mindset that if you just put information out it will debunk their bullshit and leave them to face reality.

That just is not how it works. They have a final conclusion and work from that.

You can't change it, they just keep starting at the back end and working their way back, so you can refute the stupidity 1,000 times and they will come back with rationale 1,001 ...

In the end, I found I got frustrated and ended up being less of a person.

I was a young adult in the 90s and was mystified at how mean republicans were. We had a good president, someone who was a likable "bubba" and they still hated him with a passion. While it was superficial they TRIED to put some veneer of reason to their bullshit - states rights, constitutionality, activist judges.

Two decades later, they are somehow even meaner, and have devolved to the point where they don't even try to have a unified message or paradigm to work from. They just get up in the morning, look at the worst thing they can see on the news and blame it on Obama, even if whatever rationale they have for it runs counter to what they were screaming about a minute earlier.

They are completely, abhorrently wrong on 99% of the issues, but the more wrong they are the more they are convinced they are right.

It is beyond the point of being able to "talk" it out with them.

[kairos12]

8. I tried explaining SOFA to Teahaddists. It failed to compute, at any level.

[Bill USA]

10. I think that foreign relations, in particular, is something that is, in fact, beyond TP-Cons ability

to comprehend. I think this is because, in truth, the TP-Con mentality is that of a child - anywhere from age 8 to perhaps 12 yrs old. Their only idea of a foreign policy can be summed up with any John Wayne film where he knocks off lots of stupid Indians, or knocks off loads of stupid Germans and wins World War II single-handedly. This represents the entirety of their comprehension of what is necessary to have a foreign policy.

[kairos12]

11. I always found it hilarious that GOPers love the "hero" John Wayne who did all his

fighting on the back lots of Hollywood, rather than Jimmy Stewart who flew bombing missions over Germany.

[Bill USA]

12. RIGHT. Jimmy Stewart was the real hero!

[Bill USA]

9. I commend you for Fighting the Good Fight against GOP Disinformation & Conservative madness on Dis'

It's not something everybody cares to do. So, I think it's good for those who are 'up to it' to carry on trying to expose GOP (de)basers, especially Tea Party types, to reality.

Something I remind myself of is that the ones posting are the most adamant (and obdurate) and who consider themselves very clever mouthpieces for Conservative nonsense. These are the very ones it is good to expose as purveyors of spurious arguments. but there are many who do not post but who come just to see what's being said. You never know when you might be exposing some of them to facts or ideas they have never heard of. I believe (maybe I should say: "because I want to believe&quot there are some who are capable of giving due consideration to facts they were not aware of.

DU is replete with those who will preach it's not worth the effort. But I don't believe in defeatism. -- and I CERTAINLY don't believe in preaching defeatism - that is, if I feel that way sometimes, I keep it to myself. (Why would I try to bring others down?). You never know what can be done if you just keep trying. (cf. JFK's campaign song refrain: "Just keep buttin' that dam&quot

check out: A Conservative's Courage: Punk Talk

[joshcryer]

13. When Obama said he wanted to "responsibly" leave Iraq...

...he meant it. Those training troops may have actually changed the equation with regards to ISIS. We'll never know. But they were not combat troops.

And yet again Obama got shit on for wanting to keep troops there to help the Iraqi's build up.

My guess is intel knew about ISIS at that time but no one could talk about its potential to spread.