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Sun May 13, 2012, 05:15 PM

 

Why have we heard nothing about this incredibly important development in Iceland? News black-out?!?

A friend just passed this info on to me about this incredible piece of political development in Iceland, and
I am passing it along to you.



<< ICELAND. No news from Iceland?… why? Why do we hear so much of what happens in Egypt, but no
news about what’s happening in Iceland:

In Iceland, the people have made the government resign, the primary banks have been nationalized, it
was decided to not pay the debt that these created with Great Britain and Holland due to their bad
financial politics, and a public assembly has been created to rewrite the constitution.

And all of this in a peaceful way. A whole revolution against the powers that have created the current
global crisis. This is why there hasn’t been any publicity during the last two years: What would happen if
the rest of the EU citizens took this as an example? What would happen if the US citizens took this as
an example.

This is a summary of the facts:

2008. The main bank of the country is nationalized.
The Krona, the currency of Iceland devaluates and the stock market stops. The country is in
bankruptcy

2008. The citizens protest in front of parliament and manage to get new elections that make the
resignation of the prime minister and his whole government.
The country is in bad economic situation.
A law proposes paying back the debt to Great Britain and Holland through the payment of 3,500
million euros, which will be paid by the people of Iceland monthly during the next 15 years, with a 5.5%
interest.

2010. The people go out in the streets and demand a referendum. In January 2010 the president
denies the approval and announces a popular meeting.
In March the referendum and the denial of payment is voted in by 93%. Meanwhile the government
has initiated an investigation to bring to justice those responsible for the crisis, and many high level
executives and bankers are arrested. The Interpol dictates an order that make all the implicated parties
leave the country.

In this crisis an assembly is elected to rewrite a new Constitution which can include the lessons learned
from this, and which will substitute the current one (a copy of the Danish Constitution).
25 citizens are chosen, with no political affiliation, out of the 522 candidates. For candidacy all that was
needed was to be an adult and have the support of 30 people. The constitutional assembly starts in
February of 2011 to present the ‘carta magna’ from the recommendations given by the different assemblies
happening throughout the country. It must be approved by the current Parliament and by the one
constituted through the next legislative elections.

So in summary of the Icelandic revolution:
-resignation of the whole government
-nationalization of the bank.
-referendum so that the people can decide over the economic decisions.
-incarcerating the responsible parties
-rewriting of the constitution by its people

Have we been informed of this through the media?
Has any political program in radio or TV commented on this?
No! The Icelandic people have been able to show that there is a way to beat the system and has given
a democracy lesson to the world >>



I wonder if we Americans are capable of doing the same thing the Icelanders have done. For one thing,
I don't believe that they have half of their country totally brain-washed by their right-wing media. Still, we
do have our Occupy Wall Street........ So, this really keeps me wondering.

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Reply Why have we heard nothing about this incredibly important development in Iceland? News black-out?!? (Original post)
Cal33 May 2012 OP
Warren Stupidity May 2012 #1
BlueIris May 2012 #24
xtraxritical May 2012 #69
xchrom May 2012 #2
Tansy_Gold May 2012 #9
xchrom May 2012 #11
Tansy_Gold May 2012 #30
think May 2012 #3
AnnieK401 May 2012 #10
Cal33 May 2012 #53
dickthegrouch May 2012 #4
Hissyspit May 2012 #5
muriel_volestrangler May 2012 #25
sabrina 1 May 2012 #6
Cal33 May 2012 #20
tama May 2012 #7
Lydia Leftcoast May 2012 #14
pnwmom May 2012 #8
Cal33 May 2012 #16
pnwmom May 2012 #18
sabrina 1 May 2012 #23
Hissyspit May 2012 #26
chervilant May 2012 #62
pnwmom May 2012 #64
chervilant May 2012 #68
edhopper May 2012 #12
rurallib May 2012 #13
Riftaxe May 2012 #15
Cal33 May 2012 #17
Riftaxe May 2012 #21
stubtoe May 2012 #19
TreasonousBastard May 2012 #22
jtuck004 May 2012 #27
dougolat May 2012 #67
jtuck004 May 2012 #77
secondvariety May 2012 #38
red dog 1 May 2012 #51
jtuck004 May 2012 #28
leeroysphitz May 2012 #31
jtuck004 May 2012 #76
Cal33 May 2012 #78
jtuck004 May 2012 #80
Cal33 May 2012 #81
Uncle Joe May 2012 #29
truedelphi May 2012 #32
leeroysphitz May 2012 #33
provis99 May 2012 #34
truedelphi May 2012 #73
Doctor_J May 2012 #45
DeSwiss May 2012 #35
limpyhobbler May 2012 #36
L. Coyote May 2012 #37
KT2000 May 2012 #39
mia May 2012 #40
obxhead May 2012 #41
bowens43 May 2012 #42
SunSeeker May 2012 #43
Doctor_J May 2012 #44
Cal33 May 2012 #52
Lucky Luciano May 2012 #46
leveymg May 2012 #58
Egalitarian Thug May 2012 #59
Dack May 2012 #47
progressoid May 2012 #48
chill_wind May 2012 #49
red dog 1 May 2012 #50
OnlinePoker May 2012 #54
Peace Patriot May 2012 #55
dougolat May 2012 #82
Cal33 May 2012 #83
Peace Patriot May 2012 #84
Cal33 May 2012 #85
leveymg May 2012 #56
eppur_se_muova May 2012 #57
Burma Jones May 2012 #60
mother earth May 2012 #61
TBF May 2012 #63
valerief May 2012 #65
Cal33 May 2012 #66
shireen May 2012 #70
Cleita May 2012 #71
Cal33 May 2012 #72
jobycom May 2012 #74
Cal33 May 2012 #79
Quasimodem May 2012 #75
wenziga May 2012 #86
Rex May 2012 #87

Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 05:18 PM

1. Why is obvious. Iceland did what we all should have done.

 

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #1)

Sun May 13, 2012, 07:13 PM

24. +1,000. nt

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Response to BlueIris (Reply #24)

Mon May 14, 2012, 02:01 PM

69. Here is a good link for more Iceland details.

 

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 05:24 PM

2. Du rec. Nt

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Response to xchrom (Reply #2)

Sun May 13, 2012, 05:50 PM

9. . . .

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Response to Tansy_Gold (Reply #9)

Sun May 13, 2012, 06:07 PM

11. hi miss tansy...

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Response to xchrom (Reply #11)

Sun May 13, 2012, 07:51 PM

30. It's nice to see

other people are FINALLY beginning to notice what SOME OF US have been watching and talking about FOR MONTHS.

tee hee hee.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 05:30 PM

3. Thank you for posting. K&R

 

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Response to think (Reply #3)

Sun May 13, 2012, 06:03 PM

10. Yes thank you for posting.

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Response to AnnieK401 (Reply #10)

Mon May 14, 2012, 07:26 AM

53. Many thanks, and a hearty welcome to this group, Annie!

 

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 05:30 PM

4. So that we can continue to be fed an incorrect definition of democracy

Iceland is a truly democratic State.

What the rest of us have only looks like democracy because it we keep being told it *is* democracy.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 05:36 PM

5. What's with the arbitrary dig at Egypt?

Plenty of Americans have no idea what's going on in Egypt. Or Bahrain. Or...

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #5)

Sun May 13, 2012, 07:15 PM

25. An email a bit over a year old, I'd think

so that they took Egypt as "foreign country most in the news". Of course, Egypt has a population about 240 times the size of Iceland, which could be one reason for more news about it.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 05:39 PM

6. Because Iceland refused to bail out and reward the economic criminals. Europe and the US

scared people into thinking that if they did not bail out the criminals, we would face disaster. Iceland proved them wrong so that is why we rarely hear about their success. They are now the only country on the rebound in Europe. All those who fell for the 'Austerity' policies are a disaster.

Austerity means taking care of the Banks at the expense of the People. Some now in Europe are calling it 'treason' as so many countries are now debt slaves to the IMF and the Banks.

However, the people in France, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland did not agree with those polices, but they were ignored by their governments. Sarkozy is now gone and Greece has rejected their government's policies also.

But it may be too late for them to do what Iceland did. Otoh, if they continue to be ruled by the Banks it can't be much worse to take the risk. Iceland was predicted to be a disaster also, but that didn't happen.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #6)

Sun May 13, 2012, 06:50 PM

20. Sure am glad there are people like you who keep themselves well-informed about what's going on

 

internationally. Not many do -- not even among the Democrats.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 05:40 PM

7. Not totally peacefull

 

There was quite a lot of property damage and verbal and physical attack against politicians (throwing various stuff at them, denying freedom of movement by physical thrreats etc.):
On 20 January 2009, the protests intensified into riots. Between 1,000 and 2,000 people clashed with riot police, who used pepper spray and batons, around the building of the parliament (Althing), with at least 20 people being arrested and 20 more needing medical attention for exposure to pepper spray.[3][11] Demonstrators banged pots and honked horns to disrupt the year's first meeting of Prime Minister Geir Haarde and the Althing. Some broke windows of the parliament house, threw skyr [sort of youghurt] and snowballs at the building, and threw smoke bombs into its backyard.[2][3][12] The use of pots and pans saw the local press refer to the event as the "Kitchenware Revolution".[13]

On 21 January 2009, the protests continued in Reykjavík, where the Prime Minister's car was pelted with snowballs, eggs, and cans by demonstrators demanding his resignation.[14][15][16] Government buildings were surrounded by a crowd of at least 3,000 people, pelting them with paint and eggs, and the crowd then moved towards the Althing where one demonstrator climbed the walls and put up a sign that read "Treason due to recklessness is still treason."[14][16] No arrests were reported.

On 22 January 2009, police used tear gas to disperse people on Austurvöllur (the square in front of the Althing), the first such use since the 1949 anti-NATO protest.[17][18] Around 2,000 protesters had surrounded the building since the day before and they hurled fireworks, shoes, toilet paper, rocks, and paving stones at the building and its police guard. Reykjavik police chief Stefán Eiríksson said that they tried to disperse a "hard core" of a "few hundred" with pepper spray before using the tear gas.[4] Eiríksson also commented that the protests were expected to continue, and that this represented a new situation for Iceland.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Icelandic_financial_crisis_protests


There is lot of room between purely non-violent tactics and civil wars with firearms.

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Response to tama (Reply #7)

Sun May 13, 2012, 06:23 PM

14. By the way, for those who don't know what "skyr" is,

it's sort of like a thick yogurt, sold in individual-sized servings in grocery stores and the like.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 05:45 PM

8. No news black-out -- the Iceland response to the economic crisis has been covered. For example:

NYTimes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/19/opinion/19tue2.html

In the go-go years leading up to the financial crisis, Iceland’s banks were hugely irresponsible, luring foreign depositors with high interest rates and putting the money into risky loans. When Iceland’s big banks went under in 2008, they were 10 times as big as the country’s economy.

The government of Iceland failed to rein in bankers’ excesses. But its refusal to take on bank debts, forcing creditors to take losses and share in the pain, looks increasingly smart as Iceland’s economy begins to recover.

The European Union and the International Monetary Fund — their bailouts of Greece and Ireland were designed to make creditors whole — should learn from Iceland’s example. As they negotiate a rescue for Portugal, they should realize that taxpayers cannot bear the entire cost of the banks’ misdeeds.

SNIP

Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/iceland-makes-fledgling-recovery-from-its-economic-meltdown/2012/01/12/gIQAW1q83P_story.html

REYKJAVIK, Iceland — On the snowy streets of this capital city, the economic panic of 2008 has mostly faded. The trendy cafes along Laugavegur brim with customers. Restaurant menus feature $40 grilled minke whale and $60 racks of lamb, and hardly a table goes empty. Boozy youths line up to pack nightclubs that thump all night. It’s even okay now to joke about the crash, or kreppa, as it’s known: “We may not have cash, but we have ash!” reads one T-shirt with a picture of the Eyjafjallajokull volcano that erupted in 2010.

Iceland’s journey from financial ruin to fledgling recovery is a case study in roads not taken and choices not made by other countries faced with economic calamity in recent years.

By the time the United States and Europe began to wrestle with the fallout of the global financial crisis in 2008, this tiny island nation was experiencing full-fledged meltdown. Its bloated banks failed. Its currency collapsed. The prime minister invoked God’s help, and protesters filled the streets.

Iceland did what the United States chose not to do — allow its biggest banks to fail and force foreign creditors to take a hike. It did what troubled European nations saddled with massive debts and tethered by the euro cannot do — allow its currency to remain weak, causing inflation but making its exports more desirable and its prices more attractive to tourists.

SNIP


Los Angeles Times
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/08/opinion/oe-solnit8

SNIP


In December, reports surfaced that then-Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson was nervous. Without a Wall Street bailout package, he reportedly warned members of Congress, civil unrest might become so widespread that martial law would have to be imposed. That same month, International Monetary Fund Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn warned of the risk of worldwide riots in connection with the economic collapse.

What really worried them, I suspect, was not that people would throng the streets, or even that those people might demand radical social and political change. The real concern was that the rioters might achieve some of their demands.

SNIP

That's the point at which Icelanders began to get angry -- at Britain, but even more at their own government. The crashing country developed one growth industry: bodyguards for politicians, in a country where every pop star and prime minister had once roamed freely in public. An Icelandic friend wrote me: "Eggs were being thrown at the Central Bank. Such emotional protests have not been seen since the early part of the 20th century, although then people were too poor to throw eggs."

Soon they were also being thrown at Prime Minister Geir Haarde, whose policies were very much an extension of Oddsson's.

Where Iceland goes from here is hard to foresee. But as Icelandic writer Haukar Mar Helgason put it in the London Review of Books last November: "There is an enormous sense of relief. After a claustrophobic decade, anger and resentment are possible again. It's official: capitalism is monstrous. Try talking about the benefits of free markets and you will be treated like someone promoting the benefits of rape. Honest resentment opens a space for the hope that one day language might regain some of its critical capacity, that it could even begin to describe social realities again."

Chicago Tribune:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-04-30/business/sns-rt-us-iceland-economybre83t0or-20120430_1_poster-child-banking-boom-economy

While much of Europe wallows in recession, the economy of this volcanic island in the mid Atlantic is growing at a clip that has surprised many people, thanks to a currency fall - in which the crown lost almost half its value to the euro - an export and tourism boom as well as growing consumer confidence.

Currency depreciation though is only part of the picture.

Capital controls, progressive taxes and a careful phasing-in of austerity measures were also key to getting the country back on track, bringing a more than 10 percent fiscal deficit back to a near balance.

Iceland also did what other parts of Europe haven't dared to do - let its banks go under. It took some of the cost itself but forced foreign creditors to take the biggest hit.

SNIP

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #8)

Sun May 13, 2012, 06:36 PM

16. Thanks for the info. Yet, on the whole, few Americans seem to be aware of the enormity of what had

 

been accomplished in Iceland. Over a period of about 3 years, the government had been forced by the people to
resign, a new Constitution had been written with the consent of the people, the bankers responsible for the
financial disaster done to the nation were held accountable .... etc.... and all this without any serious violence.
Certainly nobody has been killed.

Just think! It can be done!! Of course, Iceland is a nation of only about 320,000 people. This makes things
a lot easier. Our population is 1,000 times that of Iceland.

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Response to Cal33 (Reply #16)

Sun May 13, 2012, 06:42 PM

18. Yes, it can be done. But the particular path that Iceland took

might not work for us, a much larger country, and one much more central to the world's economy.

Still, there's a lot we could learn from Iceland, if we were willing to.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #18)

Sun May 13, 2012, 07:11 PM

23. The path we have taken has not worked too well for millions of Americans though.

And don't forget the dire predictions for Iceland when they were in the middle of the turmoil and leaning towards not bailing out the banks. I read all kinds of predictions that they would 'be cut off from the world' and 'would not recover'. I wasn't sure at the time, but now we know. Glad they had the courage to do what was RIGHT, rather than cave in to fear.

I think if you do what is right you rarely go wrong. The Banks here should have been nationalized also. It was a travesty that they were handed so much money without any oversight basically, and it's only now we are finding out where some of that money went.

In Europe they just keep bailing out the banks, claiming each time that it will work.

But it has not, not for the people anyhow, and not here either. The standard of living here has gone way down, unemployment makes it more than likely that wages will go down as people become more desperate for work. And that is another benefit for Global Corps.

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Response to Cal33 (Reply #16)

Sun May 13, 2012, 07:26 PM

26. I did have a student mention the rewriting of the Iceland constitution

in my college class a few months ago. We were talking about crowd sourcing. I was impressed.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #8)

Mon May 14, 2012, 09:11 AM

62. In May 2009,

while in Boston to receive the John F. Kennedy Profiles in Courage award, the most erudite Brooksley Born warned about the economic catastrophe we're witnessing:

She once again warned about the danger of Dark Markets, now grown to $680 trillion of notional value, according to the Bank for International Settlements -- "more than 10 times the amount of the gross national product of all the countries in the world."

"If we fail now to take the remedial steps needed to close the regulatory gap," Born said, "we will be haunted by our failure for years to come."


Perhaps you have noticed the dearth of information about over-the-counter derivatives, the "Dark Markets" Born has long cautioned will be the global economy's biggest challenge.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #62)

Mon May 14, 2012, 12:51 PM

64. I had been hearing worries about derivatives for several years

from my sister, who's a lower level officer in a bank. She kept saying this was unregulated and huge. I think everyone in banking knew this for a long time.

So maybe I was paying more attention to this stuff than the average DUer.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #64)

Mon May 14, 2012, 01:28 PM

68. Indeed,

I was being rhetorical. And, you're spot on about 'everyone' in banking. I was a branch manager for a bank in the 80s, and I've been a mortgage lender (despite having asserted I would 'never' work in the financial arena again). During both those tenures, I saw so much dishonesty and greed! I've known since the disastrous Reagan administration that our global economy is irretrievably damaged. I'm sure I'm not alone in that awareness.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 06:09 PM

12. Paul Krugman has been talking

about Iceland for the last few years. It doesn't fit with the austerity scenario, so the PTB don't talk about it.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 06:13 PM

13. think I heard Thom Hartmann talk of this

know I heard it somewhere.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 06:26 PM

15. Perhaps you should pull head out of hole

and pay attention to international news?

Here is a shocker, there are also a bunch of nations south of the equator that are well covered as well, if you bother looking for international news. Stop watching MSNBC/FOX/CNN, go read a few things if you want to claim you are fairly conversant with world events.

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #15)

Sun May 13, 2012, 06:39 PM

17. You are right. I do read foreign news -- but only once in a while. It's not often enough.

 

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Response to Cal33 (Reply #17)

Sun May 13, 2012, 07:02 PM

21. On re-reading i was a bit too snarky i think

since all of the subjects are definately worthy of being pointed out

Sadly it is not new news.

I for one would love new news in that general direction though, I suspect i even know a few counties that would welcome it....

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 06:49 PM

19. Because the global money changers are afraid of the scenario.

So, our national news downplays it. Iceland was news when their economy was imploding. Now they're making great strides towards recovery - but it does not fit with the plutocracy's paradigm.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 07:04 PM

22. Because it's ICELAND fercrissakes with...

a population of 300,000 and a GDP one-fifth of what Facebook will sell for next week. The story was actually well covered by newspapers and magazines, but nobody reads them any more.

We couldn't do that because we didn't have a bunch banks lying and cheating lenders like Iceland had, or at least not to the extent they had. There was some funny business with our banks, but it was miniscule compared to Iceland's, and the losses the world took in Iceland barely hit their balance sheets.

We, unlike Iceland, borrowed money for actual business and for trade in the trillions. To not honor that debt would put millions out of work here.



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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #22)

Sun May 13, 2012, 07:39 PM

27. There are perhaps 300 books, 25-50 movies, hundreds of thousands of pages of

 


documentation and evidence, along with Dr Bill Black, who worked in the push to jail and resolve the crooked and greedy people who brought us the S&L crisis who documents more theft, fraud, cheating and lying by our banks than any country ever has in history, in collusion with our government which so far has refused to put anywhere near the equivalent of investigators and police on the job to hold the current miscreants accountable. They are the single biggest reason we have tens of millions out of work, 12 million homes underwater, 6 million in some stage of foreclosure, and a real possibility that we will see neither a recovery in housing or full employment until at least mid 2020, or longer, and a demographic that is going to take our population from 1 in 10 scenarios to 1 in 5 in just over another 20 years.

Sharecroppers are always better at making excuses for people who they see as better than they are. It's what keeps them sharecroppers. The people of Iceland labor under no such delusion, and they are free of those bonds today. If the People in the US decided we were going to use the government for our own benefit instead of that of the wealthy we could provide a way forward, investing in ourselves and our country going forward.

That whole "It's too big, it was just business, it's too complicated, oh, my look at the fallout" is the same line of shit the banks have been using to excuse their own behavior. Just like any criminal caught at their bad acts.

Frankly it seems more and more clear that those who might lose the most are grasping creatures like Mi$$ Rmoney. Fuck him and his kind.

Worthless bastards all of them.

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #27)

Mon May 14, 2012, 01:22 PM

67. EXACTLY !!

We need a new word for government subservience to corporations, "fascist" applies to a partnership in which the government dominates, but our current gov. is led around by the nose and wallet. Regulation gets de-fanged, under-funded and subverted.
One problem is that the financial wizards concoct schemes several steps ahead of the law, which is always trying to deal with the after-effects.
One of the worst Supreme Court decisions was their interpretation of "honest services" as not applying to intent or results, but allowing "new" ways of cheating because the rules were lagging behind creative dishonesty.

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Response to dougolat (Reply #67)

Mon May 14, 2012, 05:42 PM

77. Clinton passes Commodities Modernization Act on the lobbying of Larry Summers. Later

 

Clinton says publicly and on the record "Larry Summers And Bob Rubin Gave Me Lousy Advice About Derivatives" here. Summers, because of this, has visited more tragedy on this country than any international terrorist, in my opinion. And he served as Obama's chief economic adviser and director of the President's National Economic Council. (Don't misunderstand - it could be worse, and Mi$$ is doing his best (LOL. No really, he is) to find people that will follow him down that other path).

I think people who seek to change this, however, haven't figured out how to get people to come to that realization. By all rights there should be millions of people in the streets, not thousands. That should be instructive, but I don't think it is.

“But one of the worst results of being a slave and being forced to do things is that when there is no one to force you any more you find you have almost lost the power of forcing yourself.”
C.S. Lewis, The Horse and His Boy





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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #22)

Sun May 13, 2012, 08:51 PM

38. What the...?

"...some funny business with our banks.." SOME funny business? Their "funny business" practically collapsed our economy and put millions out of work.

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Response to secondvariety (Reply #38)

Mon May 14, 2012, 02:52 AM

51. k & r

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 07:42 PM

28. The stood outside parliment and threw rocks at their elected officials not the banks.

 


We, on the other hand, stand outside banks while our policticians throw dollars at them.

different outcomes.

Favors for payoffs to polictical campaigns are one thing, but you can't spend the money with a concussion.

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #28)

Sun May 13, 2012, 07:52 PM

31. Maybe if we had thrown a few rocks our politicians would have been motivated to do their jobs and

 

protect the people instead of their corporate paymasters.

Why should my great grandchildren be born shouldering an impossible debt that some greedy reckless banker incured for his or her own gain?

Why aren't my representatives in government protecting me and my family's interests? Why should I keep voting for them? Why wouldn't I throw rocks, or something worse, at people that are willfully allowing my children to be born into indenturement?

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Response to leeroysphitz (Reply #31)

Mon May 14, 2012, 05:27 PM

76. We don't need to cast stones, just votes. n/t

 



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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #76)

Mon May 14, 2012, 05:49 PM

78. You want to bet the right-wingers are going to up the percentage of their fraudulent votes much

 

higher than in the past years?

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Response to Cal33 (Reply #78)

Mon May 14, 2012, 06:33 PM

80. I have no doubt they will use every trick in the book. They are getting better and better, and

 


seem to be very well organized around getting their folks into offices where they can make decisions for the rest of us, or at least stop progress. They have figured out that there is winning, and if they can't win they will obstruct until they do, so either outcome can help them.

The way to counter that is to give people something greater to work on, of course. But their opposition demonstrates a lack of vision and committment to an alternative future. For example, our argument should be for trillions of dollars in spending for jobs and research for the future, not bickering about how much to cut. This country, in that respect, is no different from any business - if they are going to thrive, they must invest in the company. But the assets most at risk in such a plan would be those of the wealthy, who seem to be controlling both sides of the argument while we bicker about how best to reach our lowest point with the Teabaggers.

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #80)

Mon May 14, 2012, 07:43 PM

81. I agree with you. I also believe the right-wingers are incapable of thinking in terms of what's

 

good for the whole nation. By nature they can only think in terms of what's beneficial for
themselves, and nobody else. In the long run, this attitude becomes, of course, self-
destructive. Unfortunately, as they self-destruct, they might also be taking many innocent
people along with them.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 07:43 PM

29. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Cal.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 07:53 PM

32. Why isn't this mentioned, you ask?

Well, for one thing, if this much light was shone on the darkness that is the Political/Monied Class, people would do exactly what people did in Iceland. Instead of hearing about how great things are now that gays can marry - we'd realize that what is necessary as a foundation to have a decent society is to get rid of the members of the Political Class whose best friends are billionaires or who are billionaires themselves, and get some truly representational government happening.

I am all for it. The One Big Money Party has to end.

(Although I was pleased abut the Marriage Equality stuff of this past week, both of us in this household are curious as to what good marriage equality is for those who cannot afford a place to live, don't have a job, haven't got health insurance et al. ) ?

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #32)

Sun May 13, 2012, 07:56 PM

33. Gays can't all marry, things aren't great and I see no reason that advancing social progress

 

and reform agendas can't hapoen together.

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Response to leeroysphitz (Reply #33)

Sun May 13, 2012, 08:18 PM

34. bullshit.

 

It is obvious that the social liberals have the "Fuck you, I've got mine" towards poor people that limousine liberals always have.

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Response to leeroysphitz (Reply #33)

Mon May 14, 2012, 03:28 PM

73. You are getting only agreement from me. n/t

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #32)

Sun May 13, 2012, 10:44 PM

45. What do you mean?

 

people would do exactly what people did in Iceland.


Would you care to explain what you mean by this, and how exactly we might accomplish it?

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 08:21 PM

35. They're afraid others will follow Iceland's example. - K&R n/t

 

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 08:26 PM

36. I agree the media has not discussed Iceland enough. The reason is that the lesson of Iceland is

not popular with the capitalist elites that run the mainstream media.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 08:47 PM

37. If you have heard nothing, reconsider who you listen to.

It is a big planet and you can focus on what you want.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 08:57 PM

39. Power to the people

Shhhh - we don't want that to happen here!

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 09:34 PM

40. Heard this interesting story about Iceland on NPR a couple of weeks ago.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 09:59 PM

41. Because it worked!

 

We're only allowed to hear about places where change brings chaos. We're less likely to shake the boat if disaster is the only thing it can bring.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 10:24 PM

42. Iceland has fewer people the Raleigh nc.

 

to think that what happened there could be repeated in a country of 300 million people is naive.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 10:25 PM

43. Now THAT is how you take your government back. nt

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 10:42 PM

44. Pssh. We can't even get a single corrupt governor out of office

 

or hate radio host off the air. OWS has accomplished nothing, and that will remain the case. If they were actually doing something, the big shots would fight back.

Turning things around here is going to be a lot messier, and not enough people here have the stomach for it. In fact this post will probably be hidden.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #44)

Mon May 14, 2012, 07:19 AM

52. For things to succeed in this country, it will take a lot of time and much more effort. Did you

 

notice that in Iceland 93% voted the referendum in? Here, we have nearly half of our people
already brain-washed by the right-wing propaganda and lies. The job is of a different order.
We are in the midst of it now. And it will take a long, long time to accomplish. But, it can be
done.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 11:54 PM

46. Iceland has 250,000 people. So you are

Talking about a country less than 1/1000th the size of the US and much smaller than any of the PIIGS. Ya can't easily replicate what works in a tiny country for much larger economies.

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Response to Lucky Luciano (Reply #46)

Mon May 14, 2012, 08:14 AM

58. Why not?

The Western Pacific island state of Vanuatu has an even smaller population, and it is a pay-for-play, nearly 100 percent privatized tax haven for the global very rich. Just the thing place Arnie Duncan and Larry Summers see as a model for a new America. If the 1% can have their model, so can we.

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Response to Lucky Luciano (Reply #46)

Mon May 14, 2012, 08:34 AM

59. We're actually in a much better position to be the agent of change on a global scale

 

because we are so much larger and posses the potential to be self sufficient. If we were to take a course similar to that of Iceland, the entire global banking system would either be forced into its proper role as servant to the people or cease to exist. We are still the most essential pillar of the world-wide con game and as such in a unique position to end it.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2012, 11:59 PM

47. There are many more examples of democracy which should put the United States to shame

Bolivia for example. Popular movements were able to elect Morales, a coca farmer and union leader - someone of their own, not a Harvard graduate - as president in opposition to the wealthy European elite. He talks about issues that are very important for the marginalized Indigenous people (like privatization of water, resources and indigenous rights, infrastructure projects and anti-neoliberal policies in general, Bolivia is the poorest country in South America).
Morales is very popular in Bolivia but there have also been opposition from Indigenous leaders and big union strikes against him because he wanted to compromised about the Amazon highway going through Indigenous territory. Finally, he canceled the contract.
http://climate-connections.org/2012/04/16/victory-bolivia-evo-morales-cancels-contract-for-controversial-amazon-highway/
and: http://globalvoicesonline.org/2012/05/10/bolivia-development-at-what-cost-new-conflict-over-tipnis-road/
It has been an amazing development in this region, not only in Bolivia.

Can you imagine this happening in the US or Europe?

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2012, 12:31 AM

48. Do they have oil?

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2012, 01:32 AM

49. The stuff of dreams:

"In March the referendum and the denial of payment is voted in by 93%. Meanwhile the government has initiated an investigation to bring to justice those responsible for the crisis, and many high level executives and bankers are arrested. The Interpol dictates an order that make all the implicated parties leave the country."


And not a one of ours had the decency...

?width=737&height=489

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2012, 02:32 AM

50. "Icelandic Govt. has initiated an investigation to bring to justice those responsible"?

Last edited Mon May 14, 2012, 03:29 PM - Edit history (1)

Too bad we don't have that here.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2012, 07:53 AM

54. The government has taken on massive debt to solve the crisis

In 2005, Iceland's gross debt was 196 Billion Kronur ($3.24 Billion U.S.). This year, according to budget estimates, it will be 1.35 Trillion Kronur ($10.75 Billion). At the same time, the value of the Kronur has been halved. For a country that imports a lot of product, this is extremely hard on the citizenry as wages have only gone up from 345,000k per month to 469,000k in the same period.

On the positive side, Iceland does have a healthy trade surplus which (if ideas like exporting Icelandic geothermal power to the U.K. come to pass) could grow in the future. The government also forecasts a budget surplus next year so could start paying down the debt right away, unlike most of the other countries in the OECD.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2012, 07:58 AM

55. To those who say "Iceland" can't happen here, two words: New. Deal.

The "New Deal" here, in the 1930s, with the election of FDR, was precisely about some of these same issues: public, democratic control of the banksters, for instance (which, among other things, were bankrupting small farms, small businesses and other small property owners). Unemployment of course, and draconian "austerity" for the poor (while the rich get richer), and the insane notion that "the market" will somehow regulate itself for the benefit of all.

The size of the population isn't all that relevant, if you have strong democratic institutions--such as vote counting in the PUBLIC VENUE--not the privatized crapola we have now for a voting system in the USA, with 80% of the voting systems in our country controlled by one, private, far rightwing-connected corporation--ES&S, which bought out Diebold--using 'TRADE SECRET' code to 'count' all our votes, with virtually no audit/recount controls. A real voting system makes it POSSIBLE to elect leaders who act in the interest of the majority. We really don't have that power any more. We had it, though, in the 1930s, when it was POSSIBLE to elect a reform government in response to vast crime and profiteering in the financial sector.

After that, we had government by Corporate Press propaganda and the post WW II "military industrial complex" for three decades or so, culminating in the Reagan-Bush juntas, wherein we totally lost control of, first, the tax system, then the war machine, with an interregnum of "neo-liberalism" under Clinton, wherein we lost Glass-Steagall, among other things (the New Deal law regulating banks and financial institutions). Finally, under Bush II (2002 to 2004), we lost our very voting system. Real reform--a "New Deal"--has been rendered impossible here. That's the progression of loss of democracy that has occurred here. The motive for controlling us--supplied by the war profiteers--combined with the corporate propaganda machine not only to loot us blind but also to HIDE the fascist revolution that has occurred, via the 'TRADE SECRET' code. The Corporate Press, in collusion with our political establishment (including our own party leadership) has black-holed the most important news story of the last decade--loss of PUBLIC vote counting in the U.S.

The MIC is an important difference between us and Iceland--much more important than population size. The U.S. war machine that should have been demobilized after WW II has, instead, grown into a monster, and has been turned against us, with military values--not democratic values--prevailing, now, throughout our government, and controlling society with police state tactics and mentality.

THAT does, indeed, make reform far more difficult here than in Iceland--not the number of people in the country but rather the entrenchment of undemocratic--and, indeed, anti-democratic--powers that collude with, and are in some ways equivalent with, transglobal corporations that have loyalty to no country or people. The MIC helps forge "markets" for these transglobal corporations, and provides them with resources like oil and slave labor pools, with outright violence or threatened violence.

Colombia is an interesting example of how far this phenomenon has gone. A sector of the MIC--the U.S. "war on drugs"--has been used to kill thousands of TRADE UNIONISTS and other advocates of the poor in Colombia, preparatory to U.S. "free for the rich" in Colombia (the new U.S./Colombia "free trade" agreement).

Iceland doesn't have this kind of problem--war profiteers running things, covertly and overtly, in collusion with transglobal corporations.

Which leads me to Latin America. Iceland initially got attention from the Corporate Press but was dropped "off the radar" when it didn't go the way they had hoped--when the people of Iceland successfully countered the corporate storyline. They just sort of "forgot" about Iceland. The lies, distortions, disinformation and black-holing of the truth about Latin America has been even more marked.

Latin America suffered the kind of corporate/bankster ruination that the Bush Junta unleashed on the "first world" a decade before anyone else. But they, too, like Iceland, did not have a MIC to throw off, in order to re-democratize. They did have a "mini-MIC"--the U.S. "war on drugs"--and it had its entrenched local fascists supported by billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars but this U.S. "war" sat uneasily on Latin American society and once the Left began challenging it, and the great leftist democracy movement got under way in South America, U.S. forces began to be kicked out of countries--and today, ALL of Latin America (including the new, though still rightwing, leadership of Colombia) is calling for AN END TO THE "WAR ON DRUGS" (i.e., legalization!).

The SUCCESS of the leftist democracy movement in South America has specifically been the result of the REJECTION of World Bank/IMF banksterism, REJECTION of "austerity" (the rich get richer, the poor get looted), REJECTION of "Wall Street"'s insane and self-serving "advice," REJECTION of U.S. "free trade for the rich" and transglobal corporate rule, REJECTION of the U.S. "war on drugs," and the embrace of social justice, local control of resources, government spending and strong government regulation of the rich and the corporate. This democratic revolution started in Venezuela and Argentina and spread to the entire continent and into Central America and it has been hugely successful at turning ruined economies around into prosperous economies with the wealth spread among the population.

This successful and peaceful revolution has also been marked by critical alliances--the first between Venezuela and Argentina (in dealing with IMF/World Bank ruination of Argentina), and, soon afterward, Venezuela and Brazil--powerhouses that cooperated in helping, say, Bolivia, in throwing off a U.S.-designed fascist coup--alliances that have led to new continent- and region-wide cooperation and new institutions, such as the Bank of the South, ALBA (leftist trade group), UNASUR and CELAC (alternatives to the U.S. dominated OAS).

The Corporate Press (a transglobal entity with "groupthink" has tried various tactics to prevent us--in the U.S. and Europe--from understanding this democracy revolution in Latin America. They reviled the pioneers (Venezuela, Argentina), then, when the movement nevertheless spread, tried "divide and conquer" (for instance, lauding the more corporate-friendly Brazil, while continuing to revile the others). But the basic fact of this movement is that the countries with Leftist governments have PROSPERED--have turned things around, dramatically--with the wealth spread around (huge reductions in poverty), with often sizzling economic growth and with "surprising" recoveries from the Bush Junta-induced worldwide depression--while the countries that are still U.S. dominated, such as Colombia and most of Central America, continue to have huge, unrelieved poverty and injustice, struggling economies and other grave problems, such as the rightwing death squads in Colombia and Honduras, and the U.S. "war on drugs"-induced violence and corruption in Colombia, Honduras and Mexico.

The Corporate Press now ignores Iceland, where democracy is working. They have reviled--demonized, slandered--the pioneers of real democracy in Latin America and have ignored the most dramatic development of all--the alliance of Leftist leaders in Latin America, who are pursuing democratization and social justice together--an historic development of very great importance.

The Corporate Press is anti-democratic because their masters, the transglobal corporations and war profiteers whom they shill for, hate and fear democracy more than anything. They hate and fear it here probably most of all--because our people, if we ever get up off our hind ends, are a potential leader of democracy revolutions worldwide that will throw off Corporate Rule. Our country is the vortex of Corporate Rule. They have taken very special measures to disempower us--the 'TRADE SECRET' code voting machines being the latest and most devastating--and to propagandize and dis-inform us on many fronts, including about Latin America, about Iceland and, currently, about Greece where democracy is starting to work.

Oh my Lord, do they fear that! It's almost amusing--'news' stories that refer to the Greek Left as "shrill" and "radical." In truth, the Greek Left is conservative in the best sense of the word--they want a stable society in which everyone has bread on the table and a chance in life and feels part of society. It is the Corporate Rulers who are radical--very radical. They want police states in which the people are slave laborers and cannon fodder with no rights. And they want to loot these police state countries and their peoples until there is nothing left to loot. Then what? The billionaires go off to their islands? Or, lacking islands in a globally warmed earth, off to Mars, is it? I don't know. The societies that they create are unlivable. And that, in the context of the post WW II world, which has tried so hard to become a progressive world, is very radical, indeed. Didn't we overthrow fascism in 1945?

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #55)

Mon May 14, 2012, 09:53 PM

82. devastating, but thank you. ..nt

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #55)

Tue May 15, 2012, 07:22 AM

83. Oh, I do agree with you and say I hope that Iceland can and will happen over here. I believe

 

this is what Occupy Wall Street is all about. But --- the circumstances have changed a good
deal from the days of FDR. The Old Timer Republicans were greedy and selfish, but they were
still human. Today's Neocons, Corporatists, Libertarians and Tea Partyers are no longer
Republicans. In fact, it was the Neocons who joined them, then worked their way up the power
structure, usurped the power of the Old Republicans and kicked them out of the Party. But
they continued to use the same name, in order to fool the Old Timer Repuplicans and continue
getting their votes. Many of these latter don't yet know that a coup within their Party had
taken place.

Yes, the Corporate Press has been operating for many many decades. Untruths, distortions
and outright lies are their daily fare. It is a disgrace to our nation, but it has been very effective
in brain-washing half of our nation. These and other practices - such as fraudulent voting and
fraudulent elections en masse - show that the present-day leadership has been taken over by
large numbers of sociopaths.

Present-day "Republicans" and those of FDR's day are two quite different entities.

I must also say that the lackadaisical attitude of many Democrats toward the wrongs - some of
them illegal, and almost all of them immoral - point out that the Democrats, themselves, have
been enabling, aiding and abetting these wrongs. If they had fought more seriously against
these wrongs, the Greedy Old Pigs party would never have come this far in their ill-doings.

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Response to Cal33 (Reply #83)

Wed May 16, 2012, 06:49 PM

84. I don't think there's much difference between the Pukes then and the Pukes now...

The Pukes who induced the Great Depression were callous, greedy, thieving, repressive bastards serving the callous, greedy, thieving, repressive super-rich of their day. These "robber barons" thought nothing of brutal attacks on trade unionists--they preferred slave labor; they cared nothing about millions of Americans literally starving and homeless, and multi-millions of others around the world, as long as they themselves could get richer and richer; they spewed the same crapola about "the free market" and "rugged individualism"; they were "fat cats," millionaire industrialists, banksters, war profiteers and exploiters of every kind, who preached "austerity" for the poor, but not for themselves. They indulged in every extravagance, while millions starved, lost their jobs, homes, farms and businesses, and ended up in the streets, in rags.

They obstructed everything that FDR tried to do. They hated him. They called him a "dictator" and a 'traitor' for doing the right thing (helping the poor majority, regulating the market and banksters, taxing the rich, bringing a social conscience to the presidency). They were crude and mean and without conscience. They were clearly engaged in class warfare--not only socially with their cliques of wealthy elites that excluded Jews or Catholics or "Negroes" but also by their power over government to vastly increase their wealth at the expense of the poor. The Taft-Coolidge-Hoover appointments to the Supreme Court were very similar to the Reagan-Bush-Bush appointees now. The court that FDR had to deal with declared every "New Deal" act of congress "unconstitutional." They had no "solutions" other than the rich getting richer and they utterly, adamantly, cruelly opposed the government giving any help to the poor.

The wealthy and their Puke politicians of the '20s through the '40s certainly meet the definition of "sociopaths." That is why FDR ran for and won FOUR terms in office! There was no alternative.

There was a period in the middle part of the last century during which Pukes went into hiding--from the 1950s through the 1970s (Eisenhower to Reagan)--and tried to seem like "human beings." They gained cache from Eisenhower (who was content with the "New Deal" and something of a progressive--but he was never really a Puke). The wealthy tried to gain good opinion through philanthropy because they were in such disrepute. (It wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts, for the most part, believe me--it was public relations for a return of the ruling class.) Their operatives in the secret government murdered a progressive president (JFK) and tried to blame it on "the communists" (with whom JFK was negotiating, through back channels, for world peace, i.e., peaceful competition between the two economic systems).* Their final illusion trick was to impeach Nixon--who was not a member of the rich elite--even as they laid the ground work for their vast, fascist, transglobal corporate empire of today. Standard Oil, United Fruit Co., the MIC war profiteers, the banksters, the multi-millionaires, the corporate 'news' monopolists, et al, were all re-grouping during this period of "nice Republicans" ('50s through '70s) for the final push to end the "New Deal" with such thoroughness that it (and U.S. democracy) could never make a comeback.

That final push started with Reagan--the regime that implemented the re-write of the tax code to greatly favor the rich; the de-regulation of the banksters (resulting in the looting of Savings and Loan institutions who had been enriched by small savers); the destruction of "downtowns" and small business--and thus the strength and coherence of organizable communities--with corporate monopolies over goods and services; the vast expansion of the power of the corporate media to lie with impunity (end of the "Fairness Doctrine" on our public airwaves), including even the corporatization of "rock 'n' roll on the radio (last bastion of rebellion), and much more. These fascist measures were brought to fruition, beginning with Reagan, but were prepared earlier under the guise of Puke "moderation.

The Reagan "fruition" also included illegal, Congress-forbidden war against Nicaragua because the rebels there wanted justice for the poor--i.e., defiance of express Constitutional limits on war--and a vast increase in military spending and the power of the MIC. It also included the media creation of a "nice guy" fascist, Reagan, who was actually a bloody-handed monster (TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND Mayan peasants in Guatemala slaughtered with Reagan's collusion, among other atrocities).

All of the above horrors under Reagan (and I consider the end of the "Fairness Doctrine" one of those horrors) were cooked up--planned, devised--by the Pukes of the 1950s through 1970s. Republican mildness during that period was an illusion, a cover. They were never "mild" or "centrist" and they were never loyal to this country and our people. They were loyal to money (their own). Eisenhower called them out at the end of his term, when he spoke of the "military-industrial complex" as a grave threat to democracy. He was speaking of the corporations who were taking over the country and its military and who were, in his view, anti-democratic.

This (Eisenhower's warning) was late '50s, during the very period when the Pukes were trying to look "mild" and "centrist" to overcome their rotten legacy of the '20s through '40s (their war against the poor and their conscienceless, self-seeking greed). They didn't dare preach what they really believed in: naked greed. Everybody still knew--could still remember---what these "fat cats" had done to the country in the '20s and had tried to continue to do in the '30s and '40s.

The Pukes of the 1920's, '30s and '40s were very like our Pukes today: openly preaching a gospel of greed. While in "hiding" (trying to look socially responsible, in the '50s through '70s period), they laid the ground work for their fascist comeback, by, for instance, ramming through an amendment to the Constitution limiting the president to two terms, so that no "New Deal" could ever happen here again.**

There are differences, yes. The magnitude of concentrated wealth and power is much bigger now and its global scale is more vast. But that is a difference in size not in kind. There were some "fat cat" capitalists in the earlier period who were willing to accommodate U.S. labor--for instance, Henry Ford. He wanted his workers to be able to afford his cars. (He was the original Keynesian!) But he was a rare bird among the capitalists. Most wanted cheap, slave labor with no rights, and used private and government militias to violently repress the labor movement, even as the banksters were foreclosing on millions of small farmers and the "Wall Street" speculators were inducing the Great Crash.

There was also a sector of the earlier Pukes who were isolationist--opposed to foreign wars and "foreign entanglements" (the bane of the "Founding Fathers". They wanted an insular, protectionist country but not for the purpose of spreading the wealth (and not really for Constitutional reasons), rather for the purpose of insulating our people from the socialist trends in Europe, keeping them ignorant of ideas and conditions elsewhere, and exploiting, robbing, looting and violently oppressing them here. I think you underestimate the open greed, "free market" preaching and brutality of the Pukes during the Taft-Collidge-Hoover period, and have fallen for the false face that they put on during the middle period (Eisenhower to Reagan).

I sympathize. I fell for it, too, for a long time. I never voted for any Pukes but I had the notion that the Puke Party used to be more "moderate"--perhaps because I am a Californian and, for a while, the Pukes here were the environmentalists. Little did I know that those so-called "moderate" Pukes were merely prepping the way for corporate and billionaire acquisition of our public parks, beaches and wildlife preserves. How could these "moderate" Pukes have countenanced Reagan and the raiding of the S&Ls (a crime that has a redwood forest component, in addition to destroying the life savings of middle class and poor people)? Because Reagan gave them huge tax breaks! Their "moderation" went right out of the window under Reagan--because it was an illusion all along, a "front"--while cabals of rich fascists plotted against us in a half century long campaign to destroy our democracy, loot our "commons," bankrupt and eliminate government itself (except in so far as it serves their purposes), hijack our military for resource wars and END the "New Deal."

The "moderate" Puke voters who voted for Reagan were only too willing to be fooled, and the Democrats who voted for Reagan were like the California politico I met during that period, who said, "Now is the time to make money." It was all about greed, and this sudden flip-flip of "moderates" into Reaganites wasn't sudden. It had been prepped in numerous ways, during the '50s to '70s period. Probably masses of Reagan voters were genuinely fooled, but the Puke leaders were not (nor were Dem leaders like that one--Reagan worshipers, i.e., greed worshipers).

One other thing that the Puke Party did during the middle period was to very falsely portray themselves as the champion of small business. They couldn't have been more anti-small business. They in fact DESTROYED small business in this country, with the growth of transglobal corporate monopolies. A lot of small business people bought that garbage, and few survived, and those by being "bought out" and having their businesses looted, their products turned into shoddy crap or eliminated entirely and the workers fired. That is one of the most disastrous alliances forged in the middle period ('50s through '70s). The other was the Puke alliance with racists. That occurred in the '60s during this so-called period of "moderate" Pukism.

I still like to think of a "golden era" of "moderate," non-traitorous, benevolently "conservative" Republicans. But--looking back from today--I no longer believe that it was real. There are too many pointers to illusion. Maybe there were a few sincere Republican politicians and certainly some sincere voters, but the real powers behind that party were downright evil, all along--an evil that spread to our own party. The evil of Corporate Rule.

It's not the "Mad Tea Partyers," the racists, the nazis and the "Christian" nutballs, who have been pushed forward by the Corporate Media as somehow the "mainstream" in this country (NOT true!), who are so dangerous to our country and to our democratic ideals. It is who they are "fronting" for--cabals of billionaire corporatists covertly controlling our laws, our presidents and other "representatives," our military and even our very voting machines. And, by the latter, they can "elect" their servants, and, believe me, they have done so.

The "TRADE SECRET" voting machines, all over this country, controlled largely (80%) by one, private, far rightwing-connected corporation, are the final coup d'etat that Eisenhower warned against 60 years ago.

One, far rightwing corporation OWNS and CONTROLS the "TRADE SECRET" code in most of our voting machines and their lobbyists have prevented any effective auditing of the results! That is Eisenhower's warning about the MIC writ very large, indeed.

You think that those so-called "moderate" Pukes of the '50s through '70s would oppose this? I don't. I think most of them would be envious of the audacity of it. Democrats of that era would have opposed it, very effectively. We have lost that kind of Democrat. The mask of "moderation" is off. Naked greed and corpo-fascist rule has made its comeback. No more need to disguise it as "moderation" or benevolent "conservatism." Pukism never was "moderate" (nor "conservative" in any real sense of the word). It was always classist, racist, elitist, anti-democratic and in service to the very rich few, and, these days, to the transglobal rich--"organized money" formed into corporations that act like countries unto themselves. The Pukes of the 1950s through 1970s would be awash with admiration. It is their dream come true.

----------------------

*(Read James Douglass' "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters"--highly recommended.)

**(The rich have their wealth and their clubs and cabals, to entrench their power. The poor need time to penetrate these mechanisms of power and assert democratic government. This is why "term limits" are so bad. They are a Puke idea, from the '50s--to prevent another FDR from gaining power in the interests of the poor MAJORITY. (They are also now used to foster inexpertise and inexperience in legislative bodies, so that corporate lobbyists can control them and write the laws.) FDR, of course, was re-elected to 3rd and 4th terms partly because of the war, but at last by half because he served the majority and opposed "organized money" (as he put it). The people saw this clearly and saw no reason to vote for anybody else. And the Founders agreed with them--they opposed term limits as undemocratic. They felt that "the people" should have the leaders they wanted with no artificial limit on their terms.)

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #84)

Wed May 16, 2012, 08:59 PM

85. Thanks for your well-written and very knowledgeable post. You've got me re-thinking about

 

my estimation that the GOP members of yesteryear and those of today belong to two different
species -- among their leaders, at any rate. Sociopaths, be they of today, 50 years ago, or
2,000 years ago, are the same. I believe that a vast majority of the GOP leadership today is
made up of sociopaths. Their values and behavior point this out so clearly. Unfortunately, the
Democratic leadership has them also - perhaps fewer in number and less vicious in degree - but
they are there, too.

Historically, democracy is a rather recent thing - a little more than 200 years old. The ancient Greeks
started that idea, but it was for Greeks only. They did own slaves. And even the idea of democracy
didn't get very far before it died down completely for the next two millenia. Humans have had 6,000
years of written history, in which democracy showed up in the last 200+ years only. For the rest of
the time, ordinary people were more or less the property of their masters - the royalty and nobility.
We have had far more experience with fascist dictatorship than with democracy.

Once having had a taste of democracy, some humans may be lulled into a semi-comatose state
and have it taken away from them. But the experience of slavery itself will re-awaken them. And when
they do, they will revolt - as has happened so many times in the past.

Sociopaths are incapable of seeing that far, of course.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2012, 08:08 AM

56. Iceland setting a bad example. Who do they think they are, Chile?

Last edited Mon May 14, 2012, 09:10 AM - Edit history (2)

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2012, 08:09 AM

57. Without violence and bloodshed, how are the media supposed to recognize it as news ?

Throw in some suicide bombers and trigger-happy police and you've got a story. As it is, it's a yawner.




-------------> <-----------------

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2012, 08:58 AM

60. My home county in Maryland has over three times the population of Iceland.

Or, once the "system" made arrangements to minimize losses, the "system" didn't give a shit about Iceland.

Iceland would have to more than double its GDP to equal the GDP of our lowest GDP state, Vermont.

Iceland has 54% of the population of Portland, OR.

Me, I think Bjork is interesting and the geology is fascinating, but the Constitutional changes of a small and ethnically homogeneous island isn't all that newsworthy.....Of course, very little you see on the Mass Market news providers is all that newsworthy.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2012, 09:07 AM

61. K & R & a huge yes, yes, yes! One can hope, but it surely seems THE way to clean up. nt

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2012, 12:04 PM

63. But that might give us ideas. nt

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2012, 01:00 PM

65. When people protest in America, they get beaten and arrested.

When people vote in America, their votes get switched.

I guess such things don't happen in Iceland.

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Response to valerief (Reply #65)

Mon May 14, 2012, 01:20 PM

66. I guess those lying, cheating Neo-Cons, Corporatists and Tea Partyers are highly

 

aggressive and morally primitive, compared to the civilized and advanced Icelanders.
No doubt about that.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2012, 02:30 PM

70. trying to do that here would be like herding cats. nt

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2012, 02:46 PM

71. Thom Hartmann talks a lot about what is happening in Iceland,

but he seems to be the only one who has a wide audience to get it to.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #71)

Mon May 14, 2012, 03:10 PM

72. Thanks for the info. Will be looking him up.

 

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2012, 03:36 PM

74. For the same reason the news failed to cover Michael Jackson's death.

This was a big story in 09. The media beat it to death for a while, then moved on to some other big thing.

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Response to jobycom (Reply #74)

Mon May 14, 2012, 05:55 PM

79. I remember Michael Jackson's death, but not Iceland's change of government and re-writing

 

the nation's constitution. The coverage of the changes in Iceland must have been smaller
and shorter, even though the importance is greater by far.

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2012, 05:24 PM

75. There was an interesting wrinkle ...

There was an interesting wrinkle to Iceland's story in the National Post back in March:

Is Iceland loonie to start using Canada’s currency?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/14/is-iceland-loonie-to-start-using-canadas-currency



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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 12:18 AM

86. Spam deleted by ScreamingMeemie (MIR Team)

 

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Response to Cal33 (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 12:24 AM

87. Because a plutocracy does not only ignore that kind of news

 

but discourages people from thinking like that or allowing certain concepts to creep into the minds with paid for programing.

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