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Cary

(11,746 posts)
Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:43 PM Feb 2013

What percentage of lefties buy into the....

Democrats and Republicans are the same meme?

I'd say it's no more than 2%. No science behind that and I have never seen that polled. I just figure the percentage has to be insignificant, regardless.

71 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What percentage of lefties buy into the.... (Original Post) Cary Feb 2013 OP
While of course they are not the same it's disingenuous not to note how far right dem's have gone Exultant Democracy Feb 2013 #1
I attribute that to pragmatism. Cary Feb 2013 #2
Yes that pragmatic let the bankers do what they will approach the Dems and Reps both agreed on. Exultant Democracy Feb 2013 #5
You don't take out the banksters when you're on the brink. Cary Feb 2013 #8
The Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act cut off a lot more then our nose. Deregulating the Bankers was a scam Exultant Democracy Feb 2013 #9
II doubt it. Cary Feb 2013 #16
Obama is a pragmatist, not necessarily a partisan or ideologue. The good news is that the Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2013 #18
The blue dogs were essentially wiped out in 2010, and nobody's pushing another 50 state strategy... Recursion Feb 2013 #40
Blue Dogs are not wiped out. There are fewer of them, though. Th 50 state strategy was Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2013 #58
He is indeed an idealogue Doctor_J Feb 2013 #62
I disagree with you and think your posts are often drenched in hyperbole, but I respect your opinion Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2013 #71
What do you mean by "the same"? Doc_Technical Feb 2013 #3
Sadly they kind of are.. Bennyboy Feb 2013 #4
Where in any modern society has there ever been any real force... Cary Feb 2013 #6
VOILA'!!!!!!!!!!!! Bennyboy Feb 2013 #7
Well, today it's more "Les Misérables" without The French Revolution. Amonester Feb 2013 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author datasuspect Feb 2013 #14
Chaos, murder, mayhem... Cary Feb 2013 #23
This message was self-deleted by its author datasuspect Feb 2013 #24
Hardly. Cary Feb 2013 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author datasuspect Feb 2013 #26
Do the University of Illinois and Washington University at St. Louis count? Cary Feb 2013 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author datasuspect Feb 2013 #32
Whose "muster" would that be? Cary Feb 2013 #42
And you didn't answer my question about Napoleon Bonaparte. Cary Feb 2013 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author datasuspect Feb 2013 #28
The question I asked you was about Napoleon Bonaparte. Cary Feb 2013 #31
Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #33
You can't answer a simple, direct question. Cary Feb 2013 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author datasuspect Feb 2013 #35
+a zillion on your whole thread here. graham4anything Feb 2013 #38
You want to just let the country slide into fascism? Doctor_J Feb 2013 #49
Are you saying Democrats are fascists? Cary Feb 2013 #52
I don't know Doctor_J Feb 2013 #61
I think it's a rotten shame that Cary Feb 2013 #66
We seem to be two sides of the same coin Doctor_J Feb 2013 #67
No one is dragging anyone. Cary Feb 2013 #68
Center left nation? Doctor_J Feb 2013 #69
I have held minor office. Cary Feb 2013 #70
Holding your nose might have affected the supply of oxygen to your brain NoPasaran Feb 2013 #13
They are not the same, but money DOES make it more difficult to choose. Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2013 #19
^^ Bennyboy for the win. Myrina Feb 2013 #37
1 Party, 2 Faces. blkmusclmachine Feb 2013 #11
I don't know quaker bill Feb 2013 #12
That's kind of the point. Cary Feb 2013 #20
Yup again and again on both these graham4anything Feb 2013 #39
Most democratic voters on the outside of this board are 93%plus with President Obama graham4anything Feb 2013 #44
And we need to keep our focus and to remember that. n/t Cary Feb 2013 #46
And there was a poll once showing that he has an 80%+ approval Jamaal510 Feb 2013 #59
Isn't it the centrist, Third Way types that see both Parties as alike enough that they take Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #15
Actually it seems to be the radicals who are pushing this meme. Cary Feb 2013 #22
What does 'seems' mean? Do you have specifics to offer? Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #29
"Seems" means that there are no hard answers. Cary Feb 2013 #48
I said nothing of mainstream Democrats, nor of mainstream Republicans. Where do you get that? Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #50
You can get upset over my interpretation of your words. Cary Feb 2013 #51
Those were not my words, they were words you wrote to argue with because you did not Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #55
It's clear to me that you're getting bent out of shape Cary Feb 2013 #60
+A ZILLION again graham4anything Feb 2013 #41
By "radicals" you mean those who think health care is a right, Doctor_J Feb 2013 #63
Neither party is perfect Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2013 #17
"Conservatives" are the enemy. Cary Feb 2013 #21
I shudder to think where we would be with Romney or McCain as POTUS Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2013 #47
There are a LOT of conservatives who call themselves Dems Doctor_J Feb 2013 #64
"Conservatives" aren't conservative. Cary Feb 2013 #65
Imperial policies are the same. The parties are different. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #36
Straight, white, employed males like me can afford to think that way Recursion Feb 2013 #43
Only the top 1% can afford to think like that. Cary Feb 2013 #45
Oh I don't know. MuseRider Feb 2013 #53
Dunno PETRUS Feb 2013 #54
That would be interesting. MuseRider Feb 2013 #56
I would so rec this reply alone if i could! nt. Amimnoch Feb 2013 #57

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
1. While of course they are not the same it's disingenuous not to note how far right dem's have gone
Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:48 PM
Feb 2013

Obama has sad himself he would have seemed like moderate republican during the Regan years.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
8. You don't take out the banksters when you're on the brink.
Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:54 PM
Feb 2013

Unless you want to cut off your nose to spite your face.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
9. The Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act cut off a lot more then our nose. Deregulating the Bankers was a scam
Sun Feb 24, 2013, 09:03 PM
Feb 2013

perpetrated against the American people with help on both sides of the aisle.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
16. II doubt it.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 09:17 AM
Feb 2013

I would not have been in favor of the repeal of Glass Steagall but it didn't regulate investment banks so we would still have had credit default swaps.

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
18. Obama is a pragmatist, not necessarily a partisan or ideologue. The good news is that the
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 10:22 AM
Feb 2013

DLC is no longer a strong force in the Democratic Party. The problem, however, is with the Blue Dog Democrats who represent red states. As long as we have to have these Democrats, it'll *appear* that there's little difference. But there is a BIG difference!

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
40. The blue dogs were essentially wiped out in 2010, and nobody's pushing another 50 state strategy...
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:11 PM
Feb 2013

... to get them back.

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
58. Blue Dogs are not wiped out. There are fewer of them, though. Th 50 state strategy was
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:26 PM
Feb 2013

successful in getting more Democrats from Red states; however, it was counterproductive when it came to progressive legislation, obviously. I just hope we learned our lessons. Let the Red states become more Blue; then we can get better Democrats...I hope.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
62. He is indeed an idealogue
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 09:17 PM
Feb 2013

He calls himself a moderate Republican, and believes in destroying public education, escalating drone murder, top-heavy tax cuts, cuts in SS benefits, and insurance mandates. The only group for whom that's pragmatic is the corporations and their board members.

Doc_Technical

(3,504 posts)
3. What do you mean by "the same"?
Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:54 PM
Feb 2013

Pepsi Cola and Dr. Pepper are not "the same"
but what they have in common far outweighs
their differences.

 

Bennyboy

(10,440 posts)
4. Sadly they kind of are..
Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:55 PM
Feb 2013

With few exception. They are all rich. Mostly attorneys who are owned lock stock and barrel by the Corporations that keep them in money to get elected and to stay in office. Then after leaving office with their gold plated retirements, gold plated healthcare all set up for life then they cash in becoming lobbyists for the very same corporations that gave them money and influenced votes.

Look at the financial holdings of my two Senators. Pelosi and Feinstein. Both of whom have VERY VERY VERY rich husbands who are involved in banking, development etc.

Of course there are striking differences to in regards to religion (even though how many democrats are Catholic?) and envirnment policy and race, but when it comes down to it the Corporations own both parties.

I could never ever vote for a republican but it is getting harder and harder to vote for a democrat without holding my nose. I feel that NONE of my elected officials are in it for ME and not themselves and their well connected cronies.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
6. Where in any modern society has there ever been any real force...
Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:00 PM
Feb 2013

without money people?

The proper goal is balance. Without balance you get The French Revolution.

Amonester

(11,541 posts)
10. Well, today it's more "Les Misérables" without The French Revolution.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 03:20 AM
Feb 2013

Since any even slightly viewed as being potentially 'violent' revolt will quickly find itself blown out of this world in a few seconds (if not milliseconds...).

Response to Cary (Reply #6)

Cary

(11,746 posts)
23. Chaos, murder, mayhem...
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:12 AM
Feb 2013

No thank you.

Hint: The French Revolution was an abject failure. The end result: Napoleon Bonaparte.

You want that? Seriously?

Response to Cary (Reply #23)

Cary

(11,746 posts)
25. Hardly.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:18 AM
Feb 2013

I am a man who has studied history. I don't go for wild, reckless ideology.

Life, and thus history, cannot be reduced to some ideological formula which is a lesson that both extremes, left and right, don't want to learn. At the end of the day you have to focus on the value of each human being or you will get lost in your own bullshit.

You seem to not want to learn. Are you someone who doesn't want to learn?

Response to Cary (Reply #25)

Cary

(11,746 posts)
30. Do the University of Illinois and Washington University at St. Louis count?
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:21 AM
Feb 2013

Rule one: don't ask questions that you don't already know the answer to.

Amateur.

Response to Cary (Reply #30)

Cary

(11,746 posts)
42. Whose "muster" would that be?
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:12 PM
Feb 2013

I have a top notch education and you can't take it away from me.

The fact of your melt down here speaks to your own issues.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
27. And you didn't answer my question about Napoleon Bonaparte.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:20 AM
Feb 2013

You really want that? You really think you can write off a world war started by a dictator as merely "a few eggs broken?"

Response to Cary (Reply #27)

Response to Cary (Reply #31)

Cary

(11,746 posts)
34. You can't answer a simple, direct question.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:23 AM
Feb 2013

Unless and until you can do that you have no credibility and your opinion of my "signal to noise ratio" is meaningless.

Response to Cary (Reply #34)

 

graham4anything

(11,464 posts)
38. +a zillion on your whole thread here.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:00 PM
Feb 2013

it must sound kool to say burn it down so many times
of course without caring about the morning after

and what I can't get is
Bush family was reviled with 41
Bush family was reviled with W43
yet burn it down and what does it get
Back to the future the day after burning it down with Bush family Starring Jeb

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
61. I don't know
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 09:14 PM
Feb 2013

They've been in charge now for 6 years, more or less. Here's some of what's happened

1. The wars have continued, "defense" spending continues to ruin the budget
2. The drone program has been continued
3. SS has been put on the table for bargaining
4. More of the tax burden has been put on the middle class and working poor
5. The criminal bankers have been taken off the hook, and granted immunity for all of their crimes
6. The health care of the nation has been given lock, stock, and barrel to the blood-sucking health "insurance" corporations
7. The move to completely give education over to corporations has accelerated
8. Right-wing media consolidation has gotten worse
9. Gun proliferation has gotten worse
10. Torture continues
11. NDAA

All of these anti-American, anti-democratic initiatives have been supported by Dems. What do you think?

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
67. We seem to be two sides of the same coin
Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:29 AM
Feb 2013

You think it's a shame that "lefties can't hold the course", whatever that means. I think that it's a shame that Dems continue to drag us to the right.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
68. No one is dragging anyone.
Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:33 AM
Feb 2013

We are a center left nation at the moment, which is exactly where we should be.

"Conservatives" have worked very hard on dragging us to the right and they have failed. Now is not the time to whine. Now is the time to make the best of the fact that our real enemies are down. That doesn't mean we make the same extremist error that "conservatives" made and amazingly keep making. It means choosing our battles carefully wisely.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
69. Center left nation?
Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:11 AM
Feb 2013

The people, yes. The government is far, far to the right of all but a couple among the developed world. Obama's ideology, in the other nations of the world, would be so far to the right as to garner almost no support in a general election.

Once again, as usual, the 3rd Way Dems speak in bromides, with no solutions, and bash liberals for the state of the nation. DU has a growing subculture that sounds suspiciously like hate radio in that regard

Cary

(11,746 posts)
70. I have held minor office.
Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:21 PM
Feb 2013

I learned most of all that politics wasn't for me. I am the kind of person who cuts right to the chase and gets things done. In my minor office the job I took on, knowing it would be the end of my tenure, was to re-do a lobby in a large condominium.

Mind you I have no design skills whatsoever and had very little to do with the design. I just got it done.

Before me the building spent $100,000 on the famous architect who designed the building. They solicited comments from everyone and what they ended up with, trying to please everyone, pleased absolutely no one and the $100,000 was utterly wasted. I was determined to not repeat that experience.

The very first thing I did when I took on the project was to solicit owners to be on the lobby committee. Everything was made public during the whole process. Pretty much the design was done by outstanding architects and someone in the building who had excellent taste.

Guess what happened? I was run out of office on a rail. People didn't like this or that, but where were they when the work was done? I spent hours and hours on that committee. And the other thing was that we came within our budget, which meant that yes, certain aspects were done on the cheap. We weighed each decision carefully and did things that could be easily re-done on the cheap, like cladding concrete columns with aluminum. But of course people complained bitterly about a $2,000 expense in a $500,000 project.

So I have little respect for people like that, whom I consider to be rabble. Decisions have to be made. Hard choices have to be made. Someone like Barack Obama, who didn't have to be President because he could have been anything he wanted to be, deserves the benefit of the doubt. And yes, I gave that benefit to George Bush too until he proved unworthy.

NoPasaran

(17,291 posts)
13. Holding your nose might have affected the supply of oxygen to your brain
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:05 AM
Feb 2013

Nancy Pelosi isn't one of your senators. She's a member of the House of Representatives.

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
19. They are not the same, but money DOES make it more difficult to choose.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 10:23 AM
Feb 2013

The good news is that both the president and his vice president come from modest means. When Biden was in the Senate, he was one of the least wealthy senators.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
20. That's kind of the point.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:01 AM
Feb 2013

Me too. In fact the only people I run into who might be pushing that particular meme are Ron Paul cultists and I find them to be incredibly annoying. They remind me of LaRouchies.

On the other hand I like them because they stir up the "conservative" pot.

 

graham4anything

(11,464 posts)
44. Most democratic voters on the outside of this board are 93%plus with President Obama
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:16 PM
Feb 2013

and the vast, vast majority of those voters will be thrilled with Hillary in 2016

add the others to the republicans and there are not enough of those to get anywhere near 2016

Jamaal510

(10,893 posts)
59. And there was a poll once showing that he has an 80%+ approval
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:56 PM
Feb 2013

with liberals in general, and a poll showing that a majority of Americans approve of his drone policy. It wouldn't seem like this to a person who only goes by the opinions on here.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
15. Isn't it the centrist, Third Way types that see both Parties as alike enough that they take
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 09:06 AM
Feb 2013

a bit from each side seeking the middle spot between them? The entire premise of centrism is that the Parties are the same, both are partly wrong and partly right, only a hybrid middle ground is authentic they say, claiming that partisans on both sides are extremists.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
22. Actually it seems to be the radicals who are pushing this meme.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:07 AM
Feb 2013

But your baby splitting, pox on both houses hypothesis does have merit.

I guess I'm baby splitting a little there myself? It's hard to generalize but I think what you're saying is the strategy that certain people are trying to deploy. I do know that certain "conservative" elements want to push the pox on both houses meme in order to dissuade lefties from going to the polls.

We know they want to suppress the vote because they know that if we vote they can't win. So....

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
29. What does 'seems' mean? Do you have specifics to offer?
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:21 AM
Feb 2013

I'm saying that centrism and Third Way say 'both Parties are to blame' and claim that the righteous place is balanced between the two, meaning they think the Parties are the same to a great extent, differences are only on the margins. So a 'centrist' sees Republicans as every bit as correct as Democrats and Democrats just as incorrect as Republicans.
Also, Third Way uses the term 'radical centrists' proudly on it's own website. They say they are the radicals.
"“Both the Grover Norquist-led campaign on the right against any new revenue and pledges on the left against any changes to Social Security and Medicare will keep us from a balanced deal and doom our ability to handle the fiscal cliff and secure our nation’s future. Today, the demands made by the coalition on the left to leave Social Security and Medicare on autopilot will ensure that America faces chronic deficits for decades to come and guarantees the insolvency of the same critical safety net programs we spent a century trying to create.”

Of course, no one is saying 'no changes' or 'auto pilot' those are characterizations of calls for lifting the cap instead of making cuts. But note the scant criticism of the Norquist right and the long winded verbiage characterizing other views in terms that bear no resemblance to reality.
http://www.thirdway.org/press_releases/195

Cary

(11,746 posts)
48. "Seems" means that there are no hard answers.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:30 PM
Feb 2013

I don't feel comfortable making such broad generalizations about large groups of people without qualifying those generalizations. Even seemingly identical groups of people tend to break down over time.

That said, generalizations are necessary.

I don't deny that there are these groups out there but it sure seems to me that these groups you identify are marginal. I tend to be mainstream and moderate even though "conservatives" and some liberals have accused me of being a radical leftist.

I find your lumping of mainstream Democrats and mainstream Republicans to be illogical and over the top. I am a mainstream Democrat and I am nothing like a "conservative." I don't agree with them on anything.

It seems to me that your perspective is skewed.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
50. I said nothing of mainstream Democrats, nor of mainstream Republicans. Where do you get that?
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:39 PM
Feb 2013

I was talking about centrists and you translate that into 'mainstream'? And accuse me of lumping the mainstream together? I don't think of Third Way and Centrists folks as mainstream Democrats, Third Way exists aside from the mainstream, that's why they are the Third Way in a two party system. Centrists, half of each Party. Not the mainstream of either Party.
Mainstream is your term, not my own. If you wish to take issue with a person's words, you need to use their actual words, not your own revision of those words. Basic honesty calls for that. When you use your words and then calling them over the top and illogical, that is over the top and illogical.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
51. You can get upset over my interpretation of your words.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:57 PM
Feb 2013

That's fine with me.

But please understand that your condescension and lectures, not so much.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
55. Those were not my words, they were words you wrote to argue with because you did not
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:06 PM
Feb 2013

want to address what I actually said. I spoke of Third Way and centrists, they are not the mainstream. You may want to call them that, but I sure as fuck don't. And more to the point, I didn't.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
60. It's clear to me that you're getting bent out of shape
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 02:02 PM
Feb 2013

for no reason other than you want to get bent out of shape.

Go for it. Get really angry. Burst a blood vessel over it.

It doesn't bother me at all.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
63. By "radicals" you mean those who think health care is a right,
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 09:22 PM
Feb 2013

public schools are vital, clean air and clean water are rights, the pentagon budget is 10 times too large, rich people should pay at least as much in taxes as working people, and killing American citizens without trials is wrong.

Yep - radical.

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,355 posts)
17. Neither party is perfect
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 09:59 AM
Feb 2013

Last edited Mon Feb 25, 2013, 10:37 AM - Edit history (1)

but it's not all that hard to see the genuine differences between the two parties, not to mention just how totally insane the GOP is. And when is the last time the GOP supported policies that didn't just help the wealthy 1-2% in the country? Have they supported anything even remotely progressive and/or anything to help curb some of the excesses of the Bush (mis-)Administration? The policies that Democrats support sometimes are flawed or don't go far enough but it's never hard to figure out where their intentions/loyalties lie. Republicans OTOH...............

Cary

(11,746 posts)
21. "Conservatives" are the enemy.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:04 AM
Feb 2013

The Republican Party is the tail of the "conservative" dog. As such it is very different from the Democrats.

We forget that fact at our own peril. Hey, things could be much, much worse. It seems to me that some of us want to forget that fact and when we snooze at the polls we lose.

What if we had a President McCain, or a President Romney?

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,355 posts)
47. I shudder to think where we would be with Romney or McCain as POTUS
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:25 PM
Feb 2013

Sarah Palin as VPOTUS would be bad enough................

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
64. There are a LOT of conservatives who call themselves Dems
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 09:28 PM
Feb 2013

and yes, they are the enemy. Please tell us what might be different.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
65. "Conservatives" aren't conservative.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:46 PM
Feb 2013

They are fascists.

You seem to be rather eager to take your eye off the ball.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
36. Imperial policies are the same. The parties are different.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 11:32 AM
Feb 2013

As long as we pursue empire, we the people play second fiddle to foreign goals.

That is the nature of empires.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
43. Straight, white, employed males like me can afford to think that way
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:13 PM
Feb 2013

Less privileged people can't.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
45. Only the top 1% can afford to think like that.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:17 PM
Feb 2013

And even they are likely to be adversely affected by the concentration of wealth brought on largely out of "conservative" policies.

The parties are not the same and buying into that meme is a sucker's play. Modern economies require a flatter distribution of wealth and income. That's not communism. It's reality and why that fact isn't more broadly accepted I do not know, but I do know that generally Democrats understand it and Republicans don't.

That right there is a huge difference.

MuseRider

(34,060 posts)
53. Oh I don't know.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:04 PM
Feb 2013

I hear it all the time. Democrats and Republicans say that. Not the tea baggers of course but regular, old conservative types say that. So 2% is a very low estimate IMO but that is simply my own experience.

You can count my household as not seeing much difference, not anymore, not for a while.

PETRUS

(3,678 posts)
54. Dunno
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:05 PM
Feb 2013

To me, a more interesting question would be what percentage of nonvoters (around 40% of us!) hold this view.

MuseRider

(34,060 posts)
56. That would be interesting.
Mon Feb 25, 2013, 01:19 PM
Feb 2013

I would love to know how many people do not vote because they feel exactly this.

I really don't know anyone, voters or non voters who feel like our government has any concerns about helping the people. It is so little that it seems to them to be a smokescreen. It is very sad. I was once a happy Democrat. Now a sort of happy unaffiliated voter.

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