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Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:17 PM

 

How were we supposed to reach 'Rural Whites' and still maintain our base?

I mean, what were we supposed to do when we as a party represent all colors and styles and types of Americans, while Rural Whites seem to think that it is us minorities who are taking THEIR JOBS, and they blame us for their situation? I see people telling us to face 'reality' and realize that those people are 'hurting' and that we need to sympathize. How should I sympathize with a group who would swear on a bible that it is all my fault that jobs are not rushing to locate in rural, backwater towns? Am I not allowed to be offended that those people directly blame me and my supposed allies are saying I should not think that's kinda fucked up, but I should somehow agree with and sympathize with them over myself because??? Because they are white? Why are they not implored to sympathize with me? They certainly have it better than we do at this point in history, regardless of what they BELIEVE.

Blacks, Asians and Hispanics are getting a lot more of the net new jobs than their proportion of the population, but I’m not saying they are a lot happier,” Achuthan said.

He cautioned against jumping to the conclusion that minorities somehow unfairly landed jobs at the expense of whites.

It’s not like they all showed up at a job fair and someone said, ‘No, we’re taking the person of colour,'” Achuthan said. “The easiest explanation is that Asians, black and Hispanics tend to be located in the population centers, and that’s where a lot of the job growth has been.”

Whites living in rural areas may be reluctant to move to the cities for jobs, he said.

“When you’re down and out, c’mon, are you going to pack your stuff into a U-Haul, drive to an urban centre, rent a place and set up shop?”

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/americans-are-convinced-by-economic-report-claiming-minority-workers-are-taking-jobs-away-from-whites
So... How to deal with the fact that rural white voters literally believe these things about people who are dedicated and lifelong democrats, our base. How to reach them while not pretending that their views are not completely offensive to our voters, and keep our voters while somehow convincing people who already think that we gain at their expense to try to work for everyones benefit. We minorities are already here, willing to help all. We always have been. Hopefully we don't change that by pandering to people with deplorable views.

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Reply How were we supposed to reach 'Rural Whites' and still maintain our base? (Original post)
bravenak Dec 2016 OP
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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:23 PM

1. Our problem isn't rural white's. It's apathy. When 46% of eligible voters can't be bothered to vote

 

after watching that maniac on the campaign trail for 18 months, then a authoritarian/aristocracy will fill the void by default. We are morphing into a much different country now.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:25 PM

3. I see that as a big ass problem too

 

I just don't see the point of worrying ourselves about people who rarely give a lefty thought the time of day. Better to create more voters than to waste our time.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:46 PM

31. Part of that occurred because of the voter suppression that took place

In 2013 Supreme Court decision which struck down a key provision in the voters rights act.

14 states added new voting restrictions just in time for the 2016 election:

http://www.brennancenter.org/voting-restrictions-first-time-2016

North Carolina would have been included in that list, but last minute court rulings were able to get voters who had been removed from the voter registration list reinstated:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/north-carolina-naacp-voter-suppression_us_5817634fe4b064e1b4b385df

Problem in North Carolina was many of those voters did not realize they could vote in time.

Those voting restrictions which started in 2013, where not in place in 2008, and 2012, and they were definitely aimed at African Americans.

Losing the Presidency was bad enough, but losing the Senate was a disaster


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Response to still_one (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:07 AM

105. It started long before 2013. Voter turnout has become increasingly abysmal over the past

 

two decades.

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Response to still_one (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:18 PM

179. Think that's one of the main reasons the Rethugs disempowered the new Dem NC Governor

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Response to MrPurple (Reply #179)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:55 PM

190. It is hard to believe this is really happening here.

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Response to still_one (Reply #31)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 10:52 PM

231. For all that,

(R) turnout was lower than (D) turnout:


Turnout went up for Obama's first election and in response to Bush II--something to vote for, something to vote against--but down in 2012. Less to vote for. It was down in 2014 because it wasn't a presidential election.


This year, a lot of voters didn't see much to vote for. (D) voting was depressed. (R) voting was, too.

As for voting rights and disenfranchisement, the only actual decent study that's been done said more people were disenfranchised by the perception they wouldn't be able to vote than by not having the ID necessary to vote. In other words, they had the ID but had it drummed into their heads by pessimists and wrong-headed activists more out to score rhetorical points than actually enable democracy that they certainly did not have the right ID (so why bother even checking?).

It's a secular trend, with the occasional countermovement in the trend line. (Secular: of or relating to a long term of indefinite duration. Not from "seculum" meaning "this present) world," opposing Christ's "not of this world, but "seculum" meaning "age" or "century".)

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Response to Igel (Reply #231)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 11:02 PM

233. Among the 14 states which add restrictive voting requirements, Wisconsin, Ohio,

and North Carolina were in there. North Carolina removed thousands from the voting rosters, and even though the NAACP won to have those names reinstated, it was late in the game, and a lot of those voters didn't participate

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:18 PM

55. Apapthy for 1000, Alex... *ding ding ding* N/t

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 05:04 PM

168. Can't be bothered. And also quite simply they just can't.

Voter suppression was not a small issue. This is way under-valued as a reason for low turnout.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:24 PM

2. but they are just fine with white guys getting their shit made in China

Or some other country.

These fuckers would attack the chinese working in those sweatshops for those jobs while saYing nothing of white owners who hire in China

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Response to JI7 (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:27 PM

4. Exactly. The voted for the guy who outsources his products. Nothing we could say would do jack

 

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Response to JI7 (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:05 PM

47. Donnie and Ivanka come to mind.

White elitist owners preaching make America Great Again. While shipping jobs away. Deplorable.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:19 PM

56. i agree. nt

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Response to JI7 (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:12 PM

80. and they are doing that already . Never a word about the businesses who hire undocumented workers .

Just hate those brown workers not the people who chose to hire those workers knowing they are undocumented most of the time and stiffing these angry people in their own community.
Nope those people are just fine because they have businesses, money and white skin and probably sit next to each other in church.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 11:38 AM

216. Or buying that stuff at the resulting lower prices

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:27 PM

5. As POTUS said:


'What I've said is that I can maybe give some counsel advice to the Democratic Party. And I think the -- the -- the thing we have to spend the most time on -- because it's the thing we have most control over -- is, how do we make sure that we're showing up in places where I think Democratic policies are needed, where they are helping, where they are making a difference, but where people feel as if they're not being heard?

And where Democrats are characterized as coastal, liberal, latte- sipping, you know, politically correct, out-of-touch folks, we have to be in those communities. And I've seen that, when we are in those communities, it makes a difference. That's how I became president. I became a U.S. Senator not just because I had a strong base in Chicago, but because I was driving downstate Illinois and going to fish fries and sitting in V.F.W. Halls and talking to farmers.

And I didn't win every one of their votes, but they got a sense of what I was talking about, what I cared about, that I was for working people, that I was for the middle class, that the reason I was interested in strengthening unions and raising the minimum wage and rebuilding our infrastructure and making sure that parents had decent childcare and family leave, was because my own family's history wasn't that different from theirs even if I looked a little bit different. Same thing in Iowa.

And so the question is, how do we rebuild that party as a whole, so that there's not a county in any state -- I don't care how red -- where we don't have a presence and we're not making the argument, because I think we have a better argument. But that requires a lot of work. You know, it's been something that I've been able to do successfully in my own campaigns.'

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/12/16/transcript-obamas-end-of-year-news-conference-on-syria-russian-hacking-and-more/?utm_term=.a3f6a252e8bf

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Response to elleng (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:31 PM

11. Thats nice. I do not always agree with him.

 

He likes to gloss over shit when it comes to race so he wont seem 'angry'. He has to. Shit would hit the fan if he did not parse his words at times or go into purple prose at others. Him keeping it real would drive his haters to extremes

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:27 PM

6. You can't be serious

 

Did you know that many rural voters voted for Hillary? Are those people stupid and racist too?

Did you also know that Obama, a black man, won the rust belt? We need to be asking ourselves how to win enough rural votes again to take the white house, not go around saying that rural voters are stupid racists. Dear God that's a perfect recipe to make our Party EXTINCT

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Response to realmirage (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:28 PM

8. I am not talking about the ones who voted for Hillary

 

Why would you think I was?

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Response to bravenak (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:32 PM

13. Then why talk about rural voters like they're a bunch of idiot racists that we can never win over?

 

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Response to realmirage (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:33 PM

15. Many of them are? Why act like thats not true and pretend they are all aware and righteous?

 

How much shit from the nasties do I (me, a black person)need to suffer to make your political dreams come true?

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Response to bravenak (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:38 PM

20. So you're one of those people that lumps whole groups of people together?

 

If people keep talking about rural voters in this way we are DEAD as a party

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Response to realmirage (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:49 PM

38. No but facts matter, 67% of Trump voters thought the UE rate went up during Obama term...

... at what point do we hold them responsible for being this ignorant?

Thx in advance

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Response to realmirage (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:50 PM

40. I live in rural ass Alaska and know about red states and just how racist rurals can be

 

You know why? Because they only do the racist shit to people who look like me so you can pretend it dont happen since it dont happen to YOU. It still happens to me and its not so bad as rural California. If rural california made me lose my mind and helped me learn the hard fucking way about neonazis and blue state KKK, then I shudder to think what rural Indiana blacks suffer through. But I guess none of that shit matters.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:26 PM

83. If we write off rural areas, we have to get votes elsewhere

 

Now which states can we flip since Ohio, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania are full of rural areas. The problem is Hillary won 15 states! Where can we as a party make up for those lost votes? Keep in mind 200 counties went for president obama twice who flipped this time. Maybe we should at least go back to those counties next election and talk to them.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #83)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:30 PM

84. We can make them up in the suburbs and increase our own turnout

 

We lost by less than a million. We can make that up. Especially after four years ofTrump. He is not starting out well

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Response to bravenak (Reply #84)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:32 PM

85. Very true. In fact he will never get the amount he got this time

 

You made very good points.

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Response to realmirage (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:08 PM

49. They also believe Donnie won the popular vote.

They really need to get off Faux Snooze.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:22 AM

144. Because you didn't specify that at all in your OP. You might want to.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #144)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:48 AM

152. No. Write whatever youwant however you want to. I just do me

 

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Response to realmirage (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:49 PM

39. rural voters, again

Can you think of anything to say to them other than outright lies? Nobody is condemning ALL rural voters just the ones that have voted for a guy that is ridiculously unqualified and continue to vote Republican for EVERYTHING ELSE. Why do they need hand holding to understand that we are all in this together? Do they not understand that if you give people that, work against your interests, to just about every official office in the country you're going to get policy that works against your interests? The president is one person with power checked directly by the other two branches of government and not so directly by state governments and the people that hold those positions.

Part of the reason they are where they are is that they while they might have voted for Obama A Black Man, and Hillary:A Woman. Instead they've uniformly voted for Republican:Strip their rights for everything else. Furthermore they have been doing so for a long damn time and will continue to do it without nary a clue as to why things keep getting worse for them. Perhaps, if they would have put more Dems, Indies or even Repubs that wouldn't willingly steal everything from them into power over the last 50ish years they could've kept/returned some prosperity to their areas as well as the rest of the country too.

Don't worry the party is going to go extinct anyway when we can't breath the air, fish the fisheries and drink the water. All of this is going to happen because people can't be bothered to get involved or the fickle Rural Voter(this does not include ANY of the rural people that see the bullshit for what is and vote for people that actually give a damn) keeps putting people in power that doesn't care about anything as long as they get theirs. For those people I simply do not give a flipping fuck if they join us in trying to save this flying rock pile or not. They will NEVER join us in trying to save things until the shit has absolutely covered the entire fan... and it's no longer spinning.. and we are all dead.

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Response to Afromania (Reply #39)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 04:55 PM

167. We can't.

 

The one's we CAN reach are already voting with us. The rest want the restoration of an America that is long gone. One where those uppity brown people know their place, and those fags have the shame to hide their sinful behavior (this is sarcasm, of there is any doubt).

In short, they are diametrically opposed to the progress of many of the oppressed groups that Democrats champion.

Nope, fuck 'em. The good guys are already with us.

What we need to do is get our natural supporters to give a shit and come out.

Many of them are lulled into a stupor of celebrity gossip and other pop culture bullshit.

Many more are simply struggling to live... working long hours and they are simply disengaged from the process.

And WAY too many people are lulled into the bullshit narrative that all politicians are bad and it doesn't matter who gets elected. Guess who that narrative serves?

We need to find some way to actually get these people to care about what is going on in politics.

And no, I'm not talking about getting people "inspired" or "excited." I will settle for informed and determined.

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Response to realmirage (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:53 PM

75. The white rural vote in Arkansas

went to the OrangeAnus. They made no bones about their hatred of Clinton and Obama.

BTW I thought the rust belt was mostly city, not rural.

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Response to realmirage (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 02:39 AM

134. All those Obama / Trump voters are racists?

Keep that argument up, and Trump will be a two term President. Trump can thank people like you for his success.

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Response to realmirage (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:35 AM

147. "Dear God that's a perfect recipe to make our Party EXTINCT"

Exactly.

We may have won the popular vote but we lost the Presidency and we were pummeled at every level. Maybe it's time we focused on being inclusive instead of spewing hate for those who think we don't represent them.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:28 PM

7. Until rural whites abandon their bigotry and embrace 21st century America, we should ignore them.

We don't need backwards, hateful people with outdated views on life in our party. Yes, there are some rural whites who are not bigoted and are fully accepting of modern America; however the vast majority of rural whites are still living in the past and are filled with bigotry. We don't need them in our party.

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:29 PM

9. I think so too

 

Let them eat cake

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Response to bravenak (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:38 PM

22. I don't think that phrase is what you meant

"Let them eat cake" is the traditional translation of the French phrase "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", supposedly spoken by "a great princess" upon learning that the peasants had no bread. Since brioche was a luxury bread enriched with butter and eggs, the quote would reflect the princess's disregard for the peasants, or at least a complete lack of understanding that the absence of basic food staples was due to poverty rather than a lack of supply.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:19 PM

57. I was using it condescendingly but completly understanding the history

 

It's my private joke. Prolly not as funny to everybody else

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Response to bravenak (Reply #57)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:21 PM

63. .

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:32 PM

14. And they'll ignore us RIGHT BACK and we'll go extinct as a Party. Great strategy

 

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Response to realmirage (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:34 PM

16. They have BEEN ignoring us

 

When is the last time Dems won the rural vote nationally? I have time.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:36 PM

17. Oh? Then how did Obama win twice?

 

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Response to realmirage (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:38 PM

21. With minorities, women, and us city folks making up the lion's share of his coalition

 

The white rural vote for Obama was less than it was AGAINST HIM. Both times.

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Response to realmirage (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:46 PM

34. He won by energizing the voters in urban, sub-urban/exurban areas


More than half of President-elect Obama’s victory margin came from votes cast in just seven counties — all of them from the centers of the nation’s largest urban regions. Los Angeles County gave Obama a 1.2 million-vote margin. Other big contributors to the Democrat were Philadelphia County (Philadelphia), Wayne County (Detroit), New York County (Manhattan), Kings County (Brooklyn) and King County (Seattle).

Obama’s vote in the nation’s largest urban counties was overwhelming. In Prince George’s County, Maryland, on the edge of Washington, D.C., the Democrat received 9 out of ten votes. Obama received more than 80 percent of the vote in Philadelphia, Manhattan, San Francisco and the Bronx.

The story of the election, however, was the overwhelming support the Democrats received in the cities. The chart below compares the vote in rural, urban and exurban America in 2004 and 2008. (Democratic victory margins in blue, Republican victory margins in red.) McCain’s margins in rural and exurban counties were less than what President Bush earned in ’04. But Obama’s victory margin from urban communities increased by nearly 10 million votes over what John Kerry received in 2004.

http://www.dailyyonder.com/barack-obamas-vote-cities-overwhelmed-rural/2008/11/19/1767/



This analysis is from 2008 ... nothing makes it untrue now. Stating Obama voters suddenly embraced the racism , bigotry and hatred of tRump is ridiculous ... tRump energized the racist/ bigot vote, and they came out to vote (whereas they stayed home in 2008 and 2012).

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Response to realmirage (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:05 PM

77. ...

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Response to realmirage (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:41 PM

25. So you're for embracing bigotry and ignorance then?

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:49 PM

37. Are you one of those people that lumps whole groups together? Like Trump does?

 

Do you think all rural voters are idiot members of the KKK? Am I dreaming or did Obama win enough rural votes to win twice? We need to start figure out how to do that again, because this whole "rural voters are the enemy" thing is suicide

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Response to realmirage (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:02 PM

46. Not all rural whites are bigots but a great number, perhaps even a majority of them are.

They certainly have shown a fancy for the ignorance propagated by Republicans in economics, science and law. He campaigned on bigotry and taking away their health care. They still voted for him in record numbers. If that's not proof of their own bigotry or stupidity, then I don't know what is.

Obama lost the rural vote overwhelmingly, just not as badly as Clinton did. By no means can you infer from that a majority of rural voters support Democrats or our values. These people vote for Republicans up and down the ticket and have done so for decades. We are better off going after suburban voters than rural voters. They are easier to reach and they have experience with Democratic politicians and values - even if it's just the mayor of the nearby big city.

Rural voters, by and large, are a complete waste of time for us to pursue. They do not share our values and their continued support of Republicans for no logical reason at all speaks significantly about their lack of character and interest in moving this country forward instead of backward.

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Response to realmirage (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 05:06 PM

170. Oh, please! If what you say is true we all would have been in a museum by now. n/t

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 05:43 PM

171. Yeah, ignoring them was a great strategy this election.



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Response to intheflow (Reply #171)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 05:54 PM

172. So you want us to abandon our core values and principles to appease them?

I would rather lose with honor instead of selling our souls to the devil.

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #172)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:36 PM

174. Amen!



The idea that we lost because we didn't embrace the RWNJ element in rural and rust belt areas is just absurd.

I live in rural Red FL. I've experienced the cognitive dissonance that is a Trump voter.

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #172)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 04:54 PM

227. You don't have to appease them.

I'm certainly not saying to invite them over to your house or get chummy with racists/homophobes/xenophobes/anti-Semite/Islamophobes/misogynists.

But you can find areas where you agree with them and build coalitions. Labor is a good start. This is a poor people's uprising as much as a fascist one. Rural America is pretty impoverished. Their poverty has only come up in lived memory. A lot of them blame Bill Clinton's NAFTA on factory closings. The Democratic Party needs to wake up and realize the Clinton's are soooo '90s. Even though Hillary wasn't president, her husband's policies helped set the stage for 2016. We used to be the party of labor. MLK was killed marching for labor with black sanitation workers, for God's sake. Sure that's aligning with the left's greatest aspirations for justice and equity for all people.

I get that you don't want to appease them. I'm a woman and it makes me sick that 53% of women voted for that sexual predator. I would like nothing better than to ignore them. But I know that when I ignore problems in my personal life, those problems usually just grow until them become ugly and unavoidable. That's why ignoring them won't work. We need to educate them* when we want to slap them because ignorance begets ignorance.


*I am using "we have to educate," here, as a white person, about white people, to white/privileged people. Of course it's not PoC's job to educate anyone unless they choose to do so.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:29 PM

10. Same way Obama did??? It's a thought!!! n/t

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Response to Yo_Mama (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:31 PM

12. You think Obama won white folks who think blacks are taking their jobs?

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:37 PM

19. Exactly.

The first valid point to come out of the mouth of a LA Lakers fan.


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Response to nycbos (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:25 PM

65. LOL

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:04 AM

101. We could start by asking these people

http://www.npr.org/2016/11/15/502032052/lots-of-people-voted-for-obama-and-trump-heres-where-in-3-charts

There is a graphic that shows the counties that flipped from Obama to Trump. It seems pretty obvious that while Dems will never get all the white rural vote, they could certainly get enough to win

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Response to Lonusca (Reply #101)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:09 AM

107. How to get them and keep me is the question.

 

Nobody actually answers it

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Response to bravenak (Reply #107)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:12 AM

110. That's why I suggested asking them

Because both of you voted for Obama in 2012. Something obviously changed for them.

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Response to Lonusca (Reply #110)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:14 AM

112. Most of them did not vote for obama

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #112)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 04:51 AM

139. They did in 2012. nt

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Response to Lonusca (Reply #139)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 04:54 AM

140. No. They absolutely did not.

 

Obama didn't even break the bank on the white vote in the rustbelt when he WON the rustbelt. He won by having a diverse coalition and historic participation among AA voters, winning in the cities and suburbs, and younger voters. He has never won the white rural vote. In lots of places romney edged him out with whites even in suburbs. I see no need to rewrite history.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #140)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:07 PM

164. Interesting take

What do you think the demographics of the counties that flipped to Trump are on the graph on NPR is provided? The ones in rural Wisconsin and Michigan?

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Response to Lonusca (Reply #164)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 03:04 PM

166. Most likely lack of Democratic turnout rather than actual flipped votes, also I would be...

 

interested in knowing if any of those counties suffered a population loss between 2008, 2012, and 2016. If so, its possible that a lot of Dem voters moved to nearby cities for better opportunities.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #166)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:32 PM

195. If you read the article

you will see that is wishful thinking. The sheer numbers of counties are overwhelming

If Dem turnout dropped so much to swing counties as much as 25 points we have a bigger problem

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Response to Lonusca (Reply #195)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 06:15 AM

210. That's precisely the problem, but it isn't as high as 25% in most cases, the differences in votes...

 

in most of those counties were small, in the single digits.

The issue is that that article is talking about counties, not people, those who would vote for Trump wouldn't have voted for Obama anyways. I would even say having lackluster Republican candidates in 2008 and 2012 lead to many Republican voters staying home.

Its a lot of counties, true, but not necessarily a lot of people.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #210)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 12:25 PM

220. If thats the case, in WI

then what you are saying is we had a lackluster candidate and everybody stayed home. While I think she wasn't the greatest candidate she sure wasn't one that made Dems stay home. Because the overall vote totals are roughly 3M for 2012 and 2016.

And if nobody who voted for Obama voted for Trump, by your philosophy, it means FAR less Dems turned out in 2016 than 2012. Clinton got slightly over 200K less than Obama. 200K is about 12.5% of Obama's 1.6M. So Dem turnout was down 12.5% when facing a threat like Trump? Give Clinton ALL of the third party vote and she is still 100K less than Obama

Again - if you are right and I am wrong - I think that is worse.

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Response to Lonusca (Reply #220)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 03:11 PM

226. She lost by a margin of approximately less than 100k in 3 states, it was pretty close to razor thin.

 

If there were so many voters who switched from Obama to Trump, and the cognitive dissonance they displayed would have been staggering, there weren't a lot of them, and most likely not as many as the margin of loss we are talking about. And again, in many of those rural counties, how many young people, mostly Dems, left to go elsewhere such as California or other blue states and/or cities for better jobs in the past 4-8 years? That can also make a difference. If the demographics in those counties shift to become older due to this, that would also help explain a Trump win, he got a lot of the angry white boomer vote, their kids, not so much.

Look at this data:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Wisconsin,_2012#Results

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/wisconsin

She got about 200k less votes than Obama in 2012, and Trump didn't gain any new voters either. It was people staying home or population loss.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:36 PM

18. Bravenak quit fighting to keep the same strategy we just lost with

 

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Response to realmirage (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:41 PM

26. We won millions more votes. Those voters matter just as much as the ones you seem to focus

 

exclusively on. Seems to me youare taking the black vote for granted by never seeming to care about how to reachus and get us to try to make up that less than a million vote difference we need. We are reliably democrat. Why not focus on getting more dems out and less on bashing the party for not loving Trump voters enough.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:32 AM

145. I'll take the howard dean approach, you can go with shrinking the tent and become a party

Of exclusuon. You'd have us end up a regional party who can't win nationally in no time. That's where the GOP was headed until we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory yet again...

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Response to dionysus (Reply #145)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:35 AM

146. You do what you gotta do

 

I have no time for pandering to idiots who buy the bullshit Trump sell. If I see too much of itI stay my ass home eating sandwiches and watching the black vote to see if we are all on the same page. We usually mostly are.

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Response to realmirage (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:46 PM

32. Empirically we were cheated out of this election, I'm not going to fight facts

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:40 PM

23. As a 'rural white' myself...

I'd say that the only way the democrats are going to reach white rural America is to get the control of the radio waves in these small towns.

Even if these people don't listen to hate radio themselves, they are influenced by it.

Many conservatives that I talk to will say "I don't watch Fox News very much" and they aren't lying, they get their right wing talking points in social settings where people that they know and respect listen to Fox News.

That should be the goal, try to get equal time, not by passing a law of anything, but by intelligently investing in the media.

My local TV political talk show has republicans disagreeing with republicans. The powers that be have apparently just given up.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:42 PM

27. That's what I see here and I live in the ruralist of the rural states

 

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Response to Blanks (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:43 PM

29. +1, "get the control of the radio waves in these small towns. " seems like something that

... we should've done 20 years ago ... very low hanging fruit here.

Where are the liberal billionaires who are willing to fund these shows and get them out there?!

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #29)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 03:10 AM

135. Air America

Reaction to bush years set the stage for Obama. Fell apart when they weren't needed. I can't think of a better reason for revival, to give voice to dissent and rally progressive troops, than this incoming disaster. All I want for Xmas is Air Obama!

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Response to Blanks (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:54 PM

44. Ok, but that was tried ten years ago and failed.

Portland Oregon lost its progressive radio stations a few years after they started. There is only one remaining and its a low power very local station.

For some reason progressive radio really never catches on. If it dosent have a chance in progressive Portland, what chance is there in rural america?

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Response to Kilgore (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:20 PM

59. If you look at Keith Olberman...

To me, he looks like a response to Rush Limbaugh.

I don't care for him. When I say control the airwaves, I don't mean spend a whole bunch of time complaining about what the republican party is doing.

They need to talk about interesting things, not necessarily politics. White rural America is angry because their anger has been stoked. Take that anger away and they'll be able to recognize the cognitive dissonance that is so prevalent in the conservative message.

Emotional people are difficult to reason with. I've never listened to liberal radio, but I'm not interested in the opinions of blowhards, regardless of which party they are blowing hard for.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #59)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:11 PM

79. If Keith can actually hold on to a show and not get fired,

And grow an audience that can attract serious advertising revenue, then there is a chance.

Time will tell.

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Response to Kilgore (Reply #79)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:26 AM

161. Olberman is too over the top...

No, what we need is a reasonable voice. A voice that points out when the republicans do bad things, and when the democrats do good things.

We aren't going to get white rural Americans to just turn on their radio and hear that they've been wrong for years, and change.

We'd probably accomplish all that we need if we could replace hate radio with music. If the radio wasn't making them angry every day, they could be reasoned with.

One of the things that kept rural Americans conservative years ago, was Paul Harvey. He wasn't overly conservative, but he was conservative. We need something like that. A calm voice forwarding a progressive agenda. A voice appreciating the arts and sciences, speaking admiringly about technology and intelligent people.

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Response to Kilgore (Reply #44)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:05 AM

103. Pay attention to when the Prog channels flip. it's usually becuase they were bought out.

Progressive radio works.

The powers that be do not want it to work.

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #103)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:50 PM

208. Good point. I think you're right. I have heard this before and totally forgot about it.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:45 PM

73. In my small rural town, 90% of the people who grew up in the town are Republicans incl the Hispanics

Nothing will change them. It doesn't even matter who is running - they were born republicans and they do not really like liberals. They are suspicious of liberals - and democrats are liberals. I was in an aerobics class and a fellow classmate came up to me out of the blue and said "Obama is a baby killer."

So, over the past 20 yrs, in moves all the retired artists and liberals to the outskirts of this town of under 2,000 people. Also south of the town, the richer people make a gated community on what had been a large ranch. Everyone was getting alone pretty good until Trump won. People are civil but there is a huge under currant. I have heard that some of their conservative pastors are telling them to pray for us wayward liberals.


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Response to Blanks (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:08 PM

78. I don't think that can be done


What we need is well organized institutions on the ground to talk to these people face to face to counter the right wing talking points. Of course I don't know who would be willing to put something together like that or fund it either.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:41 PM

24. We don't "win" them we talk to them to whittle down the margin... that's about it

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #24)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:42 PM

28. Yeppers

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:44 PM

30. Your idea about the radio waves is good but where do we get the liberal funds...

... the conservatives treat their money towards these areas as investment for lower taxes.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:46 PM

33. Maybe rich liberals should chip in to save our democracy

 

We could do a kickstarter type thingy if somebody has time. We would need good hosts tho. I Find many a bit whiny or boring.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:48 PM

35. Yes, for them it would be a drop in the bucket to by rural air time ... seems like something

... that can be done gofunded.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:57 PM

45. The big problem

Is that Liberal radio will never get the corporate backing that Conservative radio will.

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Response to Afromania (Reply #45)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:16 PM

52. Well, of course not. We believe they should pay their fair share

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #52)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:27 PM

68. indeed

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:49 PM

36. Easy. It isn't either/or. EVERYONE needs JOBS. So SHOW UP, talk JOBS, and leave their guns alone!

 

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:08 PM

48. What jobs?

Promise all the factories are coming back and we'll forsake the future of energy so that they can mine coal? What jobs has the Republican senators, house members, governors, state legislators produced for them? They vote for them as the default despite getting nothing in return except heart ache.

Why do the Dems need to beg and plead for them to leave their abusers? Cmon, tell me WHAT jobs can they realistically tell these people about? And then when it doesn't happen and they crucify the Democrat who told them about these nonexistent jobs? Do you think they are going to turn over on Trump and the Republicans when they are in the same shitty boat with holes after this whole mess is over?

They will not, they'll vote in another Republican overlord or feign allegiance to making things better just like they did with Obama. I want to know how rural voters on our side feel about their neighbors constantly voting to us all down the drain feel?

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:17 PM

54. What jobs are you going tobring to them? Specifically?

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:51 PM

41. You are stereotyping as bad as the people you are accusing. I hope you enjoy LOSING.

 

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:09 PM

50. We all lost

I hope you enjoy the fact that we're ALL going to hell in a handbasket now.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:20 PM

60. Did you somehow win while I lost?

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:51 PM

42. I think many of them live in a fantasy world of...

... "rugged individualism", and they mostly perceive the government as taking from the deserving and giving it to the undeserving.

If they get SS or Medicare benefits, it's because "they paid into it."

It's probably hopeless to shake them out of it, but Democrats might win over some of them if "corporate welfare" is mentioned more often. Conservative propagandists work hard at avoiding that issue.

For example, I heard a conservative on the radio a few years ago complaining about aid to Egypt. He quoted the correct amount, but he was deceptive about the reason. He said something like, "This is what the Democrats do! They send YOUR tax dollars overseas to help people who'd like to kill us!"

The real reason for the "aid" to Egypt was to funnel money back to our corporate weapons makers! It was aid for Egypt to buy our USA-made weapons, and Republicans supported the idea!

In truth:
1. It wasn't aid to help the needy.
2. It was aid that promoted the means to kill.
3. USA companies who made the weapons got the money, with Egypt acting as an intermediary.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #42)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:15 PM

51. I think so too

 

They live in an alternate reality and anything we say just makes them more sure that they are right. No matter what, they oppose what we do. Even if it helps them

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 09:54 PM

43. I am going to agree with others stating that it has to do with turn out ....

We need to energize and inspire like-minded voters ... there is nothing we can (or should want to) do/change in order to capture the racist, bigot, misogynist, xenophobic vote ... I do not want to be part of a party that panders to this group of people.

I am not saying every rural voter is a racist, bigot, misogynist ... what I am saying is that we are not going to reach the voters that want to 'round up 'illegal immigrants' , " that want to ban an entire religion from our country ... that are fine with depriving the "other" of their constitutional rights

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #43)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:27 PM

67. Yes. We need to increase turnout among people who are reachable, not waste out energy

 

This idea that we need to completly change our message and goals because of this cycle is not smart at all.

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #43)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 11:47 AM

163. I do not want to be part of a party that panders to this group of people.

You said it.

Trying to change peoples minds is a wast of time and condescending to them as well. Focus on the future, and the people who are progressive.

Remember the 2012 autopsy the repubs did and what it said? Instead of trying to pander to minorities and women, the repubs doubled down on their racism and sexism. That is what works for them, and it shows they have a core set of rather repugnant principles that they stick to.

Democrats also need to stick to their principles, no matter the stakes. If a democrat ever said they would start a registry of a religious group - even if that candidate offered free health care for all, free college, free child care, etc, I would vote against them. And I'm not religious.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:17 PM

53. If for any reason we denigrate our base,

we cease to be the democratic party for all practical purposes. I think we all understand that we need to reach enough people to win elections, but we won't by pandering to deplorables.

Beside which, who is deciding what "rural whites" are? There isn't a monolithic group that fits that role. I have many rural white relatives who always vote and vote republican. Most are well educated and have decent if not really good jobs. They didn't lose a slot at college because of affirmative action or lose out at a job because a minority received a boost, and they don't claim that ever happened. A significant portion of them live in all white rural areas where they have no interaction with anyone other than whites. They are evangelicals and their religion dictates how they vote. Their support for trump in particular was based on some namby pamby freedom of religion crap that supposedly the democrats were going to yank out from under them. Unless the democratic party wants to support god in schools, outlawing all abortions, and putting gays back in the closet or in front of a firing squad, we will never see these folks in our tent.

I also live in a mostly white rural area. I ran across many of the poorly educated, marginally employed if working at all, and not one of them was going to vote. They may talk about economic issues or how AAs or immigrants make their plight worse, but they have little or no interest in how elections can or might change their lives. Case in point, my daughter's ex complains constantly about how hard he has to work to pay extra taxes to support the immigrants who don't/won't work. The man is poor and head of household so he not only doesn't pay income taxes, he gets a huge earned income credit (which is NOT welfare, mind you). He thinks trump is the bees knees but he has never bothered to register to vote. Even if by a miracle we lured some of these folks to our big tent it wouldn't help win elections because they.don't.vote.

Just a sample. There are many "rural whites" and we can't lump them into any particular category to go win over. I don't propose ignoring voters who might be attracted to our message, but we are crazy if we alienate a big and growing part of our party to do so.

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Response to brer cat (Reply #53)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:33 PM

70. Agreed. n/t

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Response to brer cat (Reply #53)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:36 PM

71. Great answer

 

What I notice up here, is that people seem to think that nothing from the cities has any effect on their lives, until they need the services we offer, like, emergency rooms, shopping centers, cheap necessities, etc.. They see themselves as rugged and hardworking, and we are, for the most part. But many here 'just want to be left alone', but still want SS, medicare, federal monies to build and maintain our highways (we could not POSSIBLY build roads without fed monies or maintain this HUUUGE state on what we take in), all of this, with no income tax.

And when shit gets tough, they immediately look to blame the poorest, never looking at the new fifth wheel they purchased for fishing and camping, or the snowmachines that sit all summer and the four wheelers that sit all winter. We want it all. We just dont want to pay, and especially don't want to pay for 'those people'. People up here see BLM as worse than the KKK.

Best to grow our base.

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Response to brer cat (Reply #53)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:52 PM

93. You speak the truth.

One of my poor, uneducated clients fits this description. He has a sixth-grade education, is on disability, his daughter gets WIC and Medicaid, and they get SNAP. He lives with his wife and daughter in a very dilapidated mobile home, and has one or two other children out there somewhere that he doesn't support.

He is a hard worker - he works off the books chopping firewood, raises chickens, keeps the home warm with firewood, and takes great care of his daughter who has special needs along with the mother.

He has a Trump/Pence sign in his yard still. During the summer, he said he could never vote for Trump because he made fun of a disabled person. Well, he's honest - he didn't vote for anyone because he didn't bother to vote. Yet he told me Hillary was (fill in the blank). He must hear this stuff from his friends or family, because the only thing ever on TV is video games.

There is no way you can sway this person to either vote or vote for a Democrat. Never happening. Aim to get the vote of young, urban voters in each state.

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Response to phylny (Reply #93)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 09:55 AM

211. but with the Rust belt losing population, it is becoming older and whiter

nt

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:19 PM

58. Does this make them commies?!?!

I never thought I'd see the day when repugs would support a communist loving administration. Does this make them commies now????? Ronald Reagan and JOE McCARTHY are spinning in their graves!!!!

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Response to lisvard2 (Reply #58)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:20 PM

62. Putinistas

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #62)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:26 PM

66. Bwaaaahahahahaha

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:20 PM

61. It's hopeless. Rural Whites will only come back AFTER Trump pushes us into another depression.

Alas, the power of media brainwashing. The fascists knew what they were doing when they installed Faux News and Lumpball.

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Response to tenorly (Reply #61)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:21 PM

64. Yep

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:29 PM

69. Can we stop using "rural whites"...

...as a PC euphemism for "racist rednecks?" (I claim redneck as heritage by the way)

Let's go for honesty -- like, "poorly educated, bigoted white people" -- and up front about it. Also, they're not all rural, and not all rural people are them.

Such a term also handily answers the original question, because it makes it clear that we can't. Poorly educated bigoted white people are gonna stay poorly educated bigots, and I have no interest in including them in my party. They wanna GET EDUCATED and get UN-BIGOTED, open the damn door. Elsewise, the hell with it. You can't do a whole lot with stubborn + stupid.

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Response to DeadLetterOffice (Reply #69)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:48 PM

74. I wish I could stop using it, but the words I could replace it with would not go over well

 

not coming from a black person. And you are right.

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Response to DeadLetterOffice (Reply #69)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:15 AM

162. +1000

Well put, DLO.

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Response to DeadLetterOffice (Reply #69)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 05:04 PM

169. Well said.

Since it's a political, rather than ethnic or cultural, distinction, White right-wingers should be called White right-wingers. Period.

Anyone who's lived in Orange County, CA, call tell you that urban, upper middle-income right-wingers are just as extreme if not more so than their rural/small town counterparts.

The minute we start making this a geographical/urban-rural issue, we play right into fascist hands. "Vote for us!" they're already squealing. "Democrats look down on country folk!"

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:45 PM

72. How much of rural America

is really down and out? I mean truly rural America. I suspect much of rural America is older people who are retired and not looking to get in the workforce anyway except for the occasional individuals that might drive 50 miles to work every day.

Seems our opening is more in the suburbs. However we can still reach some of these people simply by telling the bold truth to them not sugar coating anything. Republicans are not their friends and minorities are not their enemies. They need a healthy dose of shame for allowing racial sentiments to override their economic interest. May be true that many of them cannot be reached,but we can make a dent.

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Response to standingtall (Reply #72)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 10:54 PM

76. Reaching the suburbs would be way easier

 

I know people want to say we should try to do things for rural voters like bring them jobs in order to win them, but I really do not see the point.

Not to be fucked up but....

What companies are going to locate their businesses in Rural areas to bring jobs there?
Would that not turn the area into a city?
Why would they locate there when the bulk of the customers and the ease of transport remain in the cities?
What jobs are we going to promise these people? Will we be lying?
And if it is not about jobs, but ideology, why bother? Nothing we can do. Just wait for King Trump to give them what they begged for.

Just so many things to think about.

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Response to standingtall (Reply #72)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:46 PM

90. Great point.

The 2nd most populous county in Georgia (Gwinnett) went for Hillary this time. That was not expected, and was the reason the networks were slow to call Georgia. That trend works in our favor. Gwinnett is part Atlanta suburbs, part rural.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:21 PM

81. I have been going to rural mid-Missouri to visit the in-laws farm for the last 45 years...

For those 45 years and more I have been what I consider to be a progressive Democrat voter. I have observed the growth of Fox News, hate radio, and religious radio in the country - meaning rural America - to my way of thinking there is NO way to appeal to those people in significant numbers - no way no how.

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Response to NoMoreRepugs (Reply #81)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:36 PM

87. I see it too

 

I watched members of my own family buy into the bullshit. I tried everything. They did not hear me until AFTER Trump won. Now they are scared. Pointless. They have to feel the pain to hear us

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:24 PM

82. Seems like you have already made up you mind on the matter

 

and are justifying staying with the same policies that have led to one election loss after another. I think not putting the focus on race and taking a hard look at the policies that have resulted in massive job losses like bad trade deals is a good start in finding common ground most people can identify with.

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Response to Joe Turner (Reply #82)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:33 PM

86. One election loss after another? Did obama lose twice and I forgot?

 

Or are you talking house and senate? S'hard to keep the Whitehouse for more than two terms, Bush 1 did it and ended up a 1 termer. The house and senate usually shift away from the party in the whitehouse in midterms. It's just how things go. Best to make him a 1 termer than to lose my vote and millions like mine. I wont stay and pander to folks who blame me for their problems. I dont eat shit.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #86)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:53 PM

94. The democratic party has lost Congress, the majority of governorships, the presidency

 

at some point you have to look inward and start thinking about why the party's stances on issues is not selling to most Americans. Then again, you can keep on finding scapegoats for your failures and lose some more elections.

In this last election many here were warned about choosing a highly flawed candidate like Hillary but our voices were drowned out by the I'm with Her...She's Next Crowd. Worked about as well as Mr. I'm Next Bob Dole.

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Response to Joe Turner (Reply #94)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:55 PM

97. Districting in 2010 was fucked up because we lost in midterms

 

How do you plan on fixing things while still convincing us to vote for the party? Complaining feels good but I heard nothing you said that would get my vote.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #97)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:05 AM

102. Actually we are both Complaining

 

In short the democratic party needs to get back to being the party that represents the worker. Supporting bad trade deals, and neglecting economic issues that effect the middle class is one of the many reasons Hillary lost.

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Response to Joe Turner (Reply #102)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:08 AM

106. I Always complain about republicans

 

You seemed to be complaining about democrats so I was like, okay, what plan you got that will keep me and get rural white folks who THINK it's my fault that their economy is declining, that I took a job that was supposed to go to them? How to get me to stay and them to come? I hear dogwhistles perfectly fine so that wont work. I do not have sympathy for ignorance. I wont work with a racist and give them something racist they want to save both our lives so,how?

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Response to bravenak (Reply #106)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:26 AM

119. Not many white folk think like that

 

You are, like many democrats, conjuring up all sorts of B/S reasons for losing elections. There is so much common ground especially on economic issues that most people agree on and yet many in the party seem to be constantly fixated on race and wedge issue that have little relevance with middle america.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #97)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:17 AM

160. +1, the blame dems first crew love to ignore the gerrymandering and act like it doesn't matter mosty

... because there were candidates in the dem primaries who made no issue of it and acted as it was the "establishments" fault instead of pointing to congress.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #86)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:42 AM

148. Did you forget about the vast amount of elected office that isn't the

presidency?

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Response to dionysus (Reply #148)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:48 AM

150. No. But election after election seems hyperbolic since obama won four tears ago

 

My state got rid of a republican in the last few years as gov after about a decade of repubs only. Our state democrats are doing much better. My district doesnt even have a repub running ever and I am in a redstate. The most rural redstate, in fact. Got weed legalized too. I dont feel like a loser. Maybe you should do more work in yr state like we do up here. We try our ases off. Sometimes it works.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:39 PM

88. The easiest explanation is that Asians, black and Hispanics tend to be located in the population cen

ASIANS REPRESENT!!!


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Response to yuiyoshida (Reply #88)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:50 PM

91. That's right, gurl!

 

And that song is sick!

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Response to bravenak (Reply #91)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:52 PM

92. I love that song!!

its too bad its so short!

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Response to yuiyoshida (Reply #92)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:54 PM

95. They should really make a full version

 

Btw, I started watching Supergirl because of you. Yes, I love it.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #95)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:55 PM

96. Did you watch the cross over shows?

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Response to yuiyoshida (Reply #96)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:56 PM

98. Not yet, I'm almost done with hers

 

I had started with Luke Cage, the on to that Jessica Jones chick, she is badass, I'm working my way through netflix while I wait for GOT.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #98)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:59 PM

100. I LOVE LUKE CAGE!! I hope they make a second Season!!!



Mike Colter is so badass!!

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Response to yuiyoshida (Reply #100)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:11 AM

108. They BETTER make season two!!

 

I love it too much, I like hers too because I think him and her are cute together. He is also excessively hawt and sexy and damn

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Response to bravenak (Reply #108)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:17 AM

115. uhuh!

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Response to yuiyoshida (Reply #115)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:21 AM

116. Perfect team!!! I want babies!!

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #116)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:23 AM

117. They will be bullet proof

and strong as hell!

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Response to yuiyoshida (Reply #117)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:24 AM

118. And maybe FLY!!! Oh shit!!!

 

I heard they had a daughter in the comic books. I wish I could get my hands on them, but up here we don't get much cool stuff.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #118)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:32 AM

121. I bet you could find issues featuring Danielle Cage



http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Category: Danielle_Cage_(Earth-15061)/Appearances

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Response to yuiyoshida (Reply #121)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:37 AM

123. Maybe at the boscos

 

I wanna be her

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Response to bravenak (Reply #123)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:41 AM

125. cool!!..

I would love to be Katana!

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Response to yuiyoshida (Reply #125)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:43 AM

126. I just watched suicide squad

 

Liked it

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Response to bravenak (Reply #126)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:46 AM

127. awesome, have you seen Deadpool yet?

That was a riot!


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Response to yuiyoshida (Reply #127)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:56 AM

128. Yep. Saw it a few weeks ago

 

I never let any superhero movie pass me by. I even watched Batman vs Superman and everbody knows I cannot stand Ben Affleck in a superhero role. But Deadpool was surprisingly funny. Way funnier than I expected.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #128)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 01:05 AM

130. I loved Deadpool

I also love watching Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D!


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Response to bravenak (Reply #98)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:41 PM

175. Love Luke Cage. Love Jessica Jones.

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Response to mcar (Reply #175)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:43 PM

181. I was so glad I was told to watch those

 

I resisted. Then I binge watched.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #181)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:44 PM

182. Me too

My 19 YO sons got me on to them.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:41 PM

89. THANK YOU!!!!!!!! nt

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 11:57 PM

99. More than two choices.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am hearing a possible false choice here.

1. Pander to deplorables.
Or
2. Don't change anything.

I think if the message is appealing and things have not improved in 2-4 years, some rural whites (non-deplorable) will be on board with us. Many deplorables will be hopeless. But still we offer an inclusive big tent message welcoming all, and not insulting (publicly) even those who deserve to be insulted.

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Response to MarvinGardens (Reply #99)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:13 AM

111. How to get the rural whites I described in my op while maintaining our base was my question

 

These are the ones whosay they care about jobs. How do youge them when they think the reason they have no jobs is because Asians have privilege, hispanics are all taking them and blacks get affirmative action. They believe in falsehoods, what is your solution that wont make me vomit and ignore the next election?

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Response to bravenak (Reply #111)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:48 AM

151. Not every rural white thinks a minority has stolen or unfairly taken

their jobs. You are actually being bigoted here. Plenty of them are smart enough to realize bad trade deals hurt the economy.

Or are you going to double down and ride the "rural whites are racist AND stupid" train all the way to the end of the line?

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Response to dionysus (Reply #151)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:49 AM

153. Many of them do. Check the polls and face reality

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:06 AM

104. We don't because they can't be reached.

 

This Michael Moore bullshit about the white males needs to die. The economy had nothing to do with their votes.

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Response to duffyduff (Reply #104)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:15 AM

114. True

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:11 AM

109. Easy. Stop assuming those things are mutually exclusive.

 

So... How to deal with the fact that rural white voters literally believe these things about people who are dedicated and lifelong democrats, our base

Some do, most don't. Don't treat all of them like monsters, and most become potential democratic voters.

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Response to hellofromreddit (Reply #109)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:15 AM

113. It actually says that a MAJORITY of them believe that

 

Which is most

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Response to bravenak (Reply #113)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:57 AM

158. No. The article doesn't say that.

 

I guess that's what you're referring to when you say "it".

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:37 AM

122. More of this?

 

How fantastic.

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Response to melman (Reply #122)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 12:39 AM

124. You know you can post your OWN ops, right?

 

It's easy and then you can decide what topic to choose. But I understand that it is much easier to complain about what everybody else does than to do one's own thing. Enjoy

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 01:01 AM

129. the best cure is to do what Obama did

50 state strategy needs to be the new mantra, regardless of whatever Howard Dean decides to do. In every state, at the local level, we need to find something that they need, and focus on how we will get them that, and the GOP will not. We cannot appeal to morality, but we can appeal to their need. The hope lies in the fact that we know that a lot of people are going to realize Trump conned them, especially when Paul Ryan slips his leash and goes after SS. when that happens, we get in and make it clear that even if they do not like us, they will need us, because the person that swooped in like some reality show bachelor plans to leave them kicked to the curb for Russian rubles. However, that cannot be done with TV ads, it can be done by making more and more groups locally, who plan to win every election from dogcatcher on up.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 01:07 AM

131. I am a rural, white voter.

I voted for Hillary. We even had a Democratic Office in my town (a town of 900!). I don't think my views are completely offensive to "our" voters. Please know that all rural white voters are not racists, xenophobes or any of the other things the Apricot Hellbeast is.

I'm also a 'boomer'-another group that gets talked about negatively.

I'm a little tired of being lumped in with the GOPers as a person who is not 'with the party' or refuses to join the '21st century'.

I'm a WI teacher, and have marched plenty for all kinds of rights.

I'm just as unhappy as many are here. This finger pointing gets us nowhere.

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Response to Lifelong Protester (Reply #131)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 01:33 AM

132. I was talking about the non hillary voters

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 02:18 AM

133. I'm old enough to remember a time when the Democratic Party did appeal...

to people who lived in both urban and rural areas.

Of course in those days the Democratic Party was more conservative.

Why rural voters don’t vote Democratic anymore
By Christopher Ingraham November 23

U.S. Rep. Collin C. Peterson of Minnesota is one of the last members of a dying breed: the rural conservative Democrat. He has represented Minnesota's 7th Congressional District for a quarter-century, since 1991. The district encompasses most of the western half of the state. It's farm country, a broad swath of fields and open prairie running from the South Dakota border all the way up to Canada.

***snip***

In a conversation with The Washington Post, Peterson said that Donald Trump owes his victory to rural voters who feel they've been abandoned by a Democratic Party that has become increasingly urban and liberal. That abandonment has happened in part because of Republican efforts to gerrymander Democratic voters into tightly packed urban districts, he said. Few Democratic lawmakers now represent rural districts such as Peterson's, where voters care more about agricultural policy and trade than they do about gun control, LGBT issues or questions about minority representation.

Unless Democrats are able to regain control of governorships and statehouses before the 2020 Census to “un-gerrymander” the districts, that dynamic's not likely to change, no matter what policy proposals Democrats put on the table.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/23/how-republican-gerrymanders-forced-democrats-to-abandon-rural-america/?utm_term=.f38b498f7039


In my opinion the best chance our party has to recover is that Trump turns out to be a total disaster. God forbid that he is even moderately successful.

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Response to spin (Reply #133)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 03:10 AM

136. I think he will b a disaster

 

Something that I will not look forward to but am hoping it will wake people up

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Response to bravenak (Reply #136)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 03:28 AM

137. I agree. However I have been proven wrong about Trump before. ...

That worries me. Imagine the results if he does even a quarter of what he has promised.

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Response to spin (Reply #137)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 04:51 AM

138. Me too. This is the worst political experience of my life.

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 05:31 AM

141. that final quote...

When you're down and out, c'mon, are you going to pack your stuff into a U-Haul, drive to an urban centre, rent a place and set up shop?


Uh, that sounds like what millions of black people did during the Great Migration.

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Response to JustinL (Reply #141)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 05:33 AM

142. We damn sure did!! Opportunity was not knocking at our doors, we had to find it.

 

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:19 AM

143. I would assume it would involve educating people on the issues. You have also

Seem to have broad brushed rural whites into a monolithic bloc of scumbags we shouldn't want.

Methinks if this is attempted, you should not try to help, lol

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Response to dionysus (Reply #143)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:43 AM

149. Educate them then.

 

You'd think by this time in history they'd have tried to educate THEMSELVES. See, I was born eating government cheese living with roaches, fifteen of us in a two bedroom. If they cannot do just as well or better then a black woman born way way way on the poorside of the tracks, what the fuck can I try to teach them that they will learn?
You musta missed the part where they think my black ass is the reason they caint find no jobs. And I am. Because I will get up earlier, work harder, go to school and raise my kids while working a shitty job, just for a chance at the american dream. I will move. I will pack my shit and go, for opportunity, fuck my comfort zone.

The situation is this. They are used to opportunity knocking at the door. Us black folks are used to chasing it down and grabbing on for dear life. They wont move to the big city for work. MILLIONS of blacks migrated to the cities for WORK. We don't expect shit to come to us. They needto stop exoecting too. It aint coming. Stop coddling them or coddle my black ass too. But never expect me to empathize with folks that blame me for their troubles, just because I'm black. It's fucked to to expect that of me but never expect jack shit from them. I see that the dems are about to take the black vote for granted. Bad idea. But do what ya gotta do.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:10 AM

154. Most likely because..

 

They see their jobs disappearing overseas and see their neigjborhoods filling up with foreigners?

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Response to AllenJordan (Reply #154)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:45 AM

156. Their neighborhoods filling with foreigners? Guess folks shoulda thought about that when they

 

landed their foreign asses on plymouth rock. What goes comes

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Response to AllenJordan (Reply #154)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 01:57 PM

165. Rural neighborhoods are "filling up with foreigners"? What do you mean. Welcome to du

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #165)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:04 PM

177. Just going by what i hear..

 

Over the past 30+ years ive noticed it myself.. The landscape has changed from when i was a kid. Ive always lived in urban areas, just my lifestyle.

Neighborhoods are more diverse in the makeup of ethnicity. It seems to slant more towards spanish speaking folks more than anything.

All the media on sanctuary cities and millions of illegals just raises the eyebrows of many. There is no way of really knowing if the person you just met around town is here illegal or legally.

Odd but im a democrat who doesnt believe the notion of open borders. My grandfather was an immigrant, hell most everyone who lives here is.

I know many who are concerned in rural areas about the influx of illegals and its impact on the community and this country.

Realizing the people who come here illegally are probably stand up citizens.. Except for the fact they went around the law.

There are good reasons for limiting the influx of immigrants and going through the immigration process.

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Response to AllenJordan (Reply #177)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:47 PM

184. You live in urban area but have heard and noticed rural areas being filled with foreigners?

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Response to AllenJordan (Reply #177)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:48 PM

185. Think about how the native americans, the first nations people felt when white folks show up

 

speaking that foreign ass English and deciding they owned the place. Funny as hell to see white folks acting surprised and shocked when more folks show up to live here. May e they should take that into consideration. At least OUR immigrants are not running around murdering native born citizens and stealing land and doing a bunch of ethnic cleansing. So soft they have gotten since they held the whip and went about their monroe doctrine

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Response to AllenJordan (Reply #177)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:19 PM

194. I find it interesting that no one ever asks about the people that hire illegals...

until that is addressed... I couldn't care less about this issue. BTW, the meat packing industry is rife with hired illegals. Perdue, Armour, Tyson, Cargill... bet they're the source of your xenophobia.

There isn't a decade in my life where a group of immigrants took the heat for all of the nation's problems. The boat people from Vietnam and Southeast Asia in the 1970's. Funny, no mention of terrorism on behalf of those people affected by the Vietnam War back then. Just the usual... "they're taking our jobs!!!!"

Then the Cubans in the late 1970's. I can only assume those same folks danced the night away in Miami when Castro finally died.

Latinos displaced as result of Reagan's policies in Nicaragua and Central America during the 1980's.

What were you whining about again?

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:33 AM

155. Short answer?... We don't need to reach D or D-leaning rural whites.

But we ought to at least try to hang on to the ones that we have always had. Maybe a little less condescension would help.

In any event, we did not lose the rural D/D-leaning vote this past election because they feared minorities taking their jobs.

Any person, rural or otherwise, who worries about "minorities taking their jobs" probably has not voted D since 1964. Therefore, such people are irrelevant to the direction of the D party. No need to reach them. Nor should we even bother to try.

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Response to PotatoChip (Reply #155)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:47 AM

157. I pretty much agree

 

We can improve our turnout better than we can change the minds of the purposely ignorant

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:05 AM

159. Obama is probably our best example of how.


He started his campaign in 2004 with "there's isn't a Black America or White America."

And yet he managed to convince people of color that he supported those issues.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 06:28 PM

173. People can move to where the jobs are

This idea that jobs have to be brought back to sparsely populated communities isn't very logical, is it?

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Response to mcar (Reply #173)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:12 PM

178. There's a lot of assumptions in this idea.

(1) You're qualified for job x.
(2) There's someone hiring for job x, somewhere.
(3) You have the resources to go to where job x exists, for the purposes of job-hunting, interviewing, etc.
(4) You can afford to move to where job x exists, should you actually get the job.
(5) If other members of your household work, they can also find jobs in the new area comparable to the ones they left behind so you could get job x.
(6) You can afford to live until your paychecks from your new job start coming in.

I'm sure there are more -- the point is, obviously, that "moving to where the jobs are" isn't always a viable option for under-resourced persons.

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Response to DeadLetterOffice (Reply #178)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:54 PM

189. Yep.

I turned down an (entry level) job offer at Los Alamos years ago because of the poor health of my elderly parents here.

I probably screwed myself with that decision since much time has passed since I earned my degrees in math and physics, with low skill factory jobs filling that interim, but I'd probably make the same choice today since there's more important things than money.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:01 PM

176. The Democratic Party isnt going to back down from defending minority rights

The Democratic Party cannot give up on defending minority rights and still be the Democratic Party https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/12/15/the-democratic-party-isnt-going-to-back-down-from-defending-minority-rights/?utm_term=.e45d12a0a3a3

It’s this: No matter what, the Democratic Party isn’t going to back down from aggressively defending minority rights. It just can’t. That’s because in the near future, the Democratic Party is going to be in the opposition, which means it will inevitably be striking a posture of resistance to much of what President Trump and congressional Republicans do. That agenda is likely to feature a major assault on various constituencies that will simply require Democrats to mount an aggressive, sustained defense of them.

Trump campaigned on a platform that contained explicit vows of naked persecution of minorities. The Democratic Party has to organize itself to no small degree around resisting the implementation of those promises, should Trump make good on them — something that’s particularly urgent in an environment of resurgent reactionary sentiment and white backlash, which appear to be underway in the Era of Trump....

What this all means is that Democrats may find themselves in a position where they have to aggressively defend minority rights against an intensified threat to them. And that may require Dems to proceed from there to solving the problem of how to defend those rights while simultaneously broadening the party’s economic appeal to working class and middle class whites. None of this even gets into the additional point that many of the challenges facing minorities are also economic ones, which makes the whole debate over whether to embrace an economic message or a micro-targeted cultural one a bit of a false choice to begin with.

Now, obviously, individual candidates in the coming 2018 gubernatorial, Senate, and House contests will do their own thing, finding their own answers to these political challenges that they deem appropriate to the electorates they’re appealing to. But for the Democratic Party as a whole, if Trump does what he said he would do, adopting an uncompromising defense of minority rights will be a given.

We as a party cannot give up on this issue

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:22 PM

180. We won't

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #180)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:53 PM

188. I know

 

Some seem to think we have no recourse if they ignore us.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #188)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:37 PM

196. It's crazy town

Certain---Democrats---think our base is white Republicans. Weird.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #196)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:45 PM

198. Fucking ridiculous

 

Never seen the like. I feel like aunt pitty pat

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:45 PM

183. If we reach out to rural whites where is our "base" going to go?

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #183)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:52 PM

186. I personally will not sit here and watch pandering. I just wont bother. I am just as important as

 

they are and I am fucking reliable, unlike them. I can be fickle if I choose and I damn sure will if we focus all our energy only on these white rurals who seem to think their life sucks because I exist. Fuck them. They better do as I have to do and move their asses to where the jobs are if they want them. They aint special no more. None of us are. I will let them know too.

Our base will stay the fuck home if we only care about rural whites feelings over everybody who already has our back. Take us for granted and lose much bigger than this.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #186)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:53 PM

187. Boycott the Democratic Party then?

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #187)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:57 PM

191. I will Stay the fuck in my place that they put me in. Ignore me I ignore you. It is what it is.

 

I don't owe nobody shit. Not the party, certainly not rural whites, not america (my ancestors pre paid), not nobody but me and mine. If my issues are not worthy, fuck it, I can do something else. I am tired of the black vote being taken for granted by folks who think we have no where else to go. I say they should not try us.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #191)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:02 PM

192. OK- I don't see how reaching out to a group negates your issues.

I'm thinking of all the voters that didn't turn out. It would help the Party to go after them. People that call themselves Democrats but didn't vote in this election.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #192)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:45 PM

197. Look to the suburbs. That where you will find the votes

 

Waste of time chasing rural whites

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Response to bravenak (Reply #197)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:21 PM

203. It will be interesting to see what strategy the Party adopts in the next few years.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #191)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:39 PM

205. You know what Bravenek?

Way back early in the primaries somebody in the AA group said something to the effect that AA concerns are used as a political convenience--touted when it's "in" political fashion, ignored when it's out., or no longer convenient--Everybody was shedding tears for dead black teenagers until Black Lives Matter started protesting and became successful--then a whole lot of those fake tears turned to criticism.

Time proved that poster right again and again and again and I'm sick at heart.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #205)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:13 PM

206. I'm sick too. I knew this but it is ugly

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #206)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:17 PM

207. Yeah it is

I think that was how I missed seeing Trump coming----I kept thinking "people are better than that"--no, they aren't. I will never make that mistake again.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #191)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 04:10 AM

209. Curious as to why you always seem to use poor grammar when you're upset.

And of course, the cursing that you're fond of.

Do you think it gets your message across better?

It really doesn't.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #209)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 11:35 AM

213. Because I am ghetto

 

Period. Point blank. My good grammar is an affectation

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:18 PM

193. It's not as hard as some would like to believe.

There is plenty of room for everyone to grow within this country.

As President Obama said during his 2008 run, a rising tide lifts all boats. Where our current economy failed is in the simple fact that it provided jobs that were/are paying less than the jobs people lost.

How do we correct that? Education.

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Response to Exilednight (Reply #193)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:48 PM

199. They eschew education. They hate elitist college graduates

 

How to educate people who do not want you telling them a mf thing? I wish I knew

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:55 PM

200. The alternative: revitalize their urban centers and move there. Then we'll have the votes for

national office, at least. They can gerrymander their smaller districts but we'd have the population to edge them out for senate and the presidency. And over time they'd be exposed to how not-so-bad we are and the best of our ideas would be heard through their echo chamber, little by little.

We could crowdsource a program to support this. I know I'd throw some money toward getting the senate back in 2018 by concentrating on helping people move to those states that hang in the balance.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #200)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:02 PM

201. I really like this idea

 

We move in with jobs and improve them community. But you know they would just be crying bitter tears about how us yoga pants wearing liberal elitists have ruined small town America. I think they should move to where the jobs are. That's what we did during the great migration and industrialization. They keep waiting for opportunity to come to them. I don't see that happening any time soon. But your idea is sound. I dont give a shit if they complain. I want to win becaude they have no idea how to run a government.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #201)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:13 PM

202. They're less likely to move than we are, though. And even if they move they still have the Electora

balance in their favor, right?

Just as good people are trying to redevelop Detroit now, same thing, just make it a project.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #202)

Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:29 PM

204. Yep. You're right

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #201)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:18 PM

221. man it's tempting and maybe I should make that sacrifice

 

I love DC though and I'd rather live in a place where my trans soon to be wife can walk around relatively safely

if I moved to a red/purple state I would absolutely carry though.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Reply #221)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 02:47 PM

224. Oh shit, no don't move!

 

Stay in the city and be happy with your wife. I worry for us in the country. Nobody to help us if shit goes down..

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 10:10 AM

212. By not dividing people into groups such as "rural whites"

 

Your "rural whites" is nothing more than your own mental category. We are one people, and that is the winning message.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #212)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 11:36 AM

214. We are not one people. Never have been.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #214)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 11:41 AM

217. Says trump and the white nationalists.

 

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #217)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 11:52 AM

218. Says history and the constitution as originally written

 

Segregation, slavery, continuing incarceration. No. We are not one people while we allow segments to be abused for centuries. I will let you know when we are treated the same. We are not there yet.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #218)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:20 PM

222. I actually would love to drop identity politics

 

I'd love to go full colorblind. But the thing is that you can't ask minorities to unilaterally disarm when white people have spent like 400 years playing identity politics.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Reply #222)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 02:49 PM

225. Seriously

 

Just wont work. I'd love it tho

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 11:37 AM

215. yeah I don't think so

They have the idea they are entitled because they are white. How can we agree with that without betraying what we stand for?

The question might be how do we convince them that they should be equal, not privileged and superior? A tall order indeed.

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Response to treestar (Reply #215)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 11:53 AM

219. We cannot. I think they have to get a full dose of Trump before they even consider changing

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #219)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:21 PM

223. My worst fear is that Trump "succeeds"

 

He creates some kind of bubble or doubles the debt creating jobs for white rurals and then the damage is only felt after his first or worse, second term.

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Response to bravenak (Original post)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 07:13 PM

228. How about stop trying to ban the most popular guns/magazines? That is a huge turnoff where I live.

Such ban proposals have been one of the biggest albatrosses around the party's neck in the last couple of decades in rural and semi-rural areas, including my neck of the woods in eastern NC.

For what it's worth, a pro-gun Dem (Roy Cooper) just won the governorship here, winning a majority of the *same voters* that rejected Clinton. There were a lot of issues in play, but the ill-advised ultimatums to gun owners early in the primary were repeated over and over and over here throughout the general campaign and hurt HRC here, just as they did elsewhere.

And FYI, if you advocate banning modern-looking rifle handgrips, and magazines over 10 rounds, you are (perhaps unintentionally) advocating for "banning people's guns", since such bans are aimed squarely at the most popular guns in U.S. homes. Most gun owners don't hunt, so the issue is primarily not about deer rifles.

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Response to benEzra (Reply #228)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 07:34 PM

229. I live in ALASKA

 

I never even think about banning guns

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Response to bravenak (Reply #229)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 10:18 PM

230. It's not people like you who are pushing to enact crap like the NY SAFE Act.

It's mostly urban elites who don't know a semiauto from a machinegun, or a .223 from a .45-70, and who either aren't aware of the issue's nuances or don't care.

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Response to benEzra (Reply #230)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 11:00 PM

232. To me, handguns are the most dangerous

 

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