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Thu Nov 24, 2016, 11:44 AM

BREAKING: Green Party's Jill Stein to Seek Hand 'Recounts', Forensic Tabulator Audits in WI, MI, PA

The Green Party's 2016 Presidential candidate Jill Stein is announcing her intention to seek a "recount of votes in the battleground states of Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania." The campaign's press release, posted in full below, cites "a multi-partisan effort to check the accuracy of the machine-counted vote tallies in these states in order to ensure the integrity of our elections."


'Hand 'Recounts', Forensic Tabulator Audits





http://bradblog.com/?p=11937

53 replies, 5133 views

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Reply BREAKING: Green Party's Jill Stein to Seek Hand 'Recounts', Forensic Tabulator Audits in WI, MI, PA (Original post)
UCmeNdc Nov 2016 OP
Vinnie From Indy Nov 2016 #1
riversedge Nov 2016 #2
jimlup Nov 2016 #3
OnionPatch Nov 2016 #5
Qutzupalotl Nov 2016 #26
triron Nov 2016 #28
Qutzupalotl Nov 2016 #31
Island Blue Nov 2016 #35
BlueMTexpat Nov 2016 #36
Island Blue Nov 2016 #37
BlueMTexpat Nov 2016 #38
cilla4progress Nov 2016 #4
Red Oak Nov 2016 #6
ailsagirl Nov 2016 #9
iluvtennis Nov 2016 #10
ailsagirl Nov 2016 #11
iluvtennis Nov 2016 #24
ailsagirl Nov 2016 #30
anamandujano Nov 2016 #14
tavalon Nov 2016 #47
SMC22307 Nov 2016 #21
Lil Missy Nov 2016 #32
Silver Gaia Nov 2016 #45
mopinko Nov 2016 #7
Arazi Nov 2016 #8
Chalco Nov 2016 #12
NBachers Nov 2016 #13
anamandujano Nov 2016 #16
SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2016 #18
anamandujano Nov 2016 #19
SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2016 #20
anamandujano Nov 2016 #22
Ellipsis Nov 2016 #33
davidn3600 Nov 2016 #23
KatyBR Nov 2016 #15
anamandujano Nov 2016 #17
red dog 1 Nov 2016 #29
Silver Gaia Nov 2016 #46
red dog 1 Nov 2016 #52
Silver Gaia Nov 2016 #53
budkin Nov 2016 #25
red dog 1 Nov 2016 #27
SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2016 #39
SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2016 #40
SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2016 #41
tandem5 Nov 2016 #34
colsohlibgal Nov 2016 #42
realmirage Nov 2016 #43
zonkers Nov 2016 #44
watoos Nov 2016 #49
zonkers Nov 2016 #50
Mc Mike Nov 2016 #51
UCmeNdc Nov 2016 #48

Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 11:55 AM

1. Good!

Let's take a look!

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Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 11:55 AM

2. #auditthevote in addition to this #recount

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Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 11:57 AM

3. Much relief

If they show that the vote was accurate - great.

I can live better the next 4 years knowing that it was the mistake of my countrymen rather than the hacking of external power.

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Response to jimlup (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 01:35 PM

5. Exactly.

And if we find evidence the votes were hacked, we need to know now, even if the outcome can't be changed, so we can try and keep it from happening again next time.

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Response to jimlup (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:34 PM

26. Agreed. The Russian aspect of this makes me ill.

If Stein has extra money, she should request a Florida recount too. Early voting reports showed a shift away from Trump. I don't believe the results.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:38 PM

28. That seems not plausible

given Florida election laws (unless SOS requests one).

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Response to triron (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 04:14 PM

31. Yes, I saw it has already been certified.

Oh well. A forensic analysis would still be instructive for the future.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 06:34 PM

35. Or North Carolina.

I have a difficult time believing that NC went for Trump, while at the same time electing a Democratic Governor, Lt. Governor and Supreme Court justice. I know the margin for Governor was small, but still, none of these things add up.

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Response to Island Blue (Reply #35)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 07:08 PM

36. McCrory has requested a recount

and it looks as if he'll get it. I wonder whether the Presidential race might be affected. One can only hope. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/whats-really-going-on-in-north-carolinas-gubernatorial-race/508520/

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #36)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 07:18 PM

37. I think that's only for the governor's race.

He's trying his hardest to steal this from Roy Cooper.

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Response to Island Blue (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 09:17 PM

38. It looks like he won't be able to steal it.

I was hoping that the recount would affect all races on the ballot. But you are probably right that it won't.

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Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 12:22 PM

4. I wonder what will happen

If hacks can be proven, but vote totals aren't actually confirmable?

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Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 01:38 PM

6. I'm surprised by the number of people on DU that are suddenly Jill fans

EOM

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Response to Red Oak (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 01:54 PM

9. I never was or wasn't a fan of hers

I never delved into why she was so unpopular here-- too much else going on.

I am so thankful she is doing this!!

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Response to ailsagirl (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 01:57 PM

10. Agree, no fan of Jill Stein, but glad her org is leading this recount effort...

...I donated $20 to the cause. Best this single mom can do.

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Response to iluvtennis (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 01:58 PM

11. Good for you!!

It all helps

Welcome to DU, iluvtennis!!

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Response to ailsagirl (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:22 PM

24. Thank you...been lurking for many months now...finally stepping out :-) n/t

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Response to iluvtennis (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:56 PM

30. I'm glad you did

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Response to Red Oak (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 02:42 PM

14. Not necessarily a fan but supportive of the effort she is making.

In addition to being well founded, it the only encouraging news we've had since the scam election.

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Response to anamandujano (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 25, 2016, 08:40 AM

47. It's weird that Duers

Can't hold two positions at once. I'm not a Jill Stein fan, I'm a huge fan of validating possible voting shenanigans.

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Response to Red Oak (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:00 PM

21. LOL, agree. I'm getting whiplash. (n/t)

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Response to Red Oak (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 04:45 PM

32. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

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Response to Red Oak (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 25, 2016, 07:57 AM

45. I don't see any "fans" of Jill Stein here. What I DO see are people who are willing to

do what we must to accomplish our goal. I want a recount. If donating to a fundraiser organized by Jill Stein that aims to do this will get us to that goal, then I will do it, and hope for the best. I'm not giving Jill Stein my support, nor my vote. I'm giving her recount efforts a few dollars. I am reminded of that old saying: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

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Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 01:43 PM

7. best of luck to her.

we really need to get our confidence back in our elections. not surprised that someone outside the 2 party system is the one who has to do it.

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Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 01:49 PM

8. There's no downside as far as I can tell. Good on Jill

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Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 02:07 PM

12. What about Florida?

Crosscheck f'd it up there as well!

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Response to Chalco (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 02:38 PM

13. I came to this thread to say the same thing: What about Florida? I have no faith in their vote count

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Response to NBachers (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 02:46 PM

16. There's a thread here with a petition to sign for Florida.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2623799

Apparently no one can get a recount unless the Secretary of State signs off.

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Response to anamandujano (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 02:52 PM

18. No one can get a FL recount, period.

The returns were certified this past Tuesday.

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Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 02:58 PM

19. Certified by 3 stooges in a 2 minute phone call. One of them is a pay to player who should be

in court any.time.now.

I've not lost hope that something can be done.

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Response to anamandujano (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 02:59 PM

20. I agree with your assessment of the State Canvassing Board

Your hopefulness for getting FL to break its own election laws, not so much.

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Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:03 PM

22. We'll see.

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Response to anamandujano (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 04:52 PM

33. certified is certified. period.

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Response to Chalco (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:04 PM

23. Florida is done. Certified. Closed. Finished.

 

Florida certified its election on Tuesday. No one requested a recount. And no one challenged the results prior to the certification with enough evidence that the results would have been different. By law, the election there is over.

Trump's margin of victory in Florida was over 120,000 votes. That would have been VERY hard to find enough enough evidence of fraud to overturn that.

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Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 02:43 PM

15. Here is what her plan is

https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount

In 2004, the Cobb/LaMarche campaign demanded a recount in Ohio. Because of their efforts, an election administrator went to jail. We also exposed the profound problems with DRE machines, which helped launch an election integrity movement. That provoked California to engage in a "top to bottom" review of their voting system, which culminated in the abolition of DRE machines.

The Green Party Platform calls for "publicly-owned, open source voting equipment and deploy it across the nation to ensure high national standards, performance, transparency and accountability; use verifiable paper ballots; and institute mandatory automatic random precinct recounts to ensure a high level of accuracy in election results."

Election integrity experts have independently identified Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin as states where "statistical anomalies" raised concerns. Our effort to recount votes in those states is not intended to help Hillary Clinton.

These recounts are part of an election integrity movement to attempt to shine a light on just how untrustworthy the U.S. election system is.

All money raised goes toward recounts in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. We hope to do recounts in all three states. If we only raise sufficient money for two, we will demand recounts in two states. If we only raise enough money for one, we will demand a recount in one state.

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Response to KatyBR (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 02:49 PM

17. It's not intended but probably will. That's why most are donating.

"Our effort to recount votes in those states is not intended to help Hillary Clinton. "

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Response to KatyBR (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:48 PM

29. Does Stein know that unless a recount is done in all 3 states, Trump will still be POTUS?

In order for Clinton to overturn the Trump election, she will need a recount in Wisconsin, Michigan & Pennsylvania, and such a recount must overturn Trump's winning margin in all three states.

Doing a recount in only one or two of those states won't do any good at all.

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Response to red dog 1 (Reply #29)

Fri Nov 25, 2016, 08:12 AM

46. Yes, I think she knows this. She admits helping Hillary win is not her intention.

She is willing to file for recounts in all 3 states IF Americans donate enough money, but said she will take it on a state-by-state basis. If she gets enough money for one state, she will do that, if two states, she will do that, and if three states, she will do that. Her goal is election integrity, exposing the problems, NOT necessarily changing the outcome. That would seem to be a side effect from her point of view.

However, the fact is that she has already raised the money needed to file for a recount in Wisconsin. That *SHOULD* be filed sometime today (11/25). She has raised enough money to file for the recount in Pennsylvania. The deadline to file there is Monday (11/28). What's left is Michigan, with a filing deadline of 11/30. The fundraiser is ongoing for that purpose. My guess is that when she files for a recount in Wisconsin today, that will energize people and the rest of the money will be raised within a few hours, as it was on Wednesday for Wisconsin.

So, the chances of us succeeding in getting recounts in all 3 states are about as good as we can get with this, I think.

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Response to Silver Gaia (Reply #46)

Fri Nov 25, 2016, 04:03 PM

52. Thanks for that info

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Response to red dog 1 (Reply #52)

Fri Nov 25, 2016, 04:07 PM

53. You're welcome!

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Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:29 PM

25. I donated

It's worth it just to piss off Trump supporters.

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Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:36 PM

27. K&R...Thanks for posting

I wonder why it costs $1 million for a recount in Wisconsin, while it apparently only costs $120,000 for a recount in Michigan?

"Fred Woodhams, a spokesperson for Michigan's Department of State, told 'Foreign Policy' that state law there allows for the losing candidate to challenge an election outcome.
Doing so would cost the Clinton campaign about $120,000.
It would have to file a recount request by next Wednesday, Nov. 30."
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/23/secretive-push-underway-to-audit-key-2016-swing-state-vote-totals/


Meanwhile, Change.org has a petition to demand that election-officials double-check the electronic results in every state that uses paper ballots.
http://www.change.org/p/demand-an-audit-of-the-2016-presidential-election

(They have nearly 190,000 signatures so far, and they need 10,000 more to reach 200,000)


DU Poll
"Should Hillary Clinton Ask For An Audit In Three Key States?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512622780

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Response to red dog 1 (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 09:42 PM

39. 120,000 sounds low

Per Michigan law, it's $125/precinct if the margin between the winner and the petitioner is more than 50 votes or .5% of the precinct, whichever is great. With 4830 precincts, the cost is much closer to the $600,000 that Jill Stein has on her website.

I think the MI elections guy is looking at the low end, i.e., $25/precinct if the margin between the winner and the petitioner is less than 50 votes or .5% of the precinct. That might apply in Hillary's case in many precincts, but not in Stein's case.

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Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 09:44 PM

40. Sorry, just saw that your article

did say Clinton campaign - my bad.

***edited to add responded to wrong post.

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Response to red dog 1 (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 09:46 PM

41. Sorry just saw that your article

referenced the cost for a Clinton initiated recount. Yeah, hers would be cheaper than Stein's.

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Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 05:53 PM

34. I know others share the feeling I have about this election and everything surrounding it...

that feeling that there's a step missing, a space where something should have been, an off beat and we are all waiting for that dramatic correction. A correction that doesn't necessarily result in Trump being removed from being president, but something more fundamental. We are all waiting for that appropriate response to insanity and it hasn't happened yet.

I want to believe in Jill Steins efforts, but tell me you don't feel that continued gap in your stomach. There was so much resistance to giving things a second look in 2000 and 2004 and now we are headed for a recount at breakneck speed. We are getting what we want and it still doesn't feel right.

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Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Fri Nov 25, 2016, 12:43 AM

42. Good For Her!

The democrats were never going to challenge anything, they are like the 97 pound weakling getting sand kicked on him. They just seem to take getting swindled and move on.

I never quite got the vitriol thrown at Jill Stein, she seemingly got more hatred than the Orange Fraud.

I hope they hurry, time is of the essence.

If we would be fortunate enough to have those 3 states flip the fun begins, the far right would go nuts and they are nuts.

Whatever happens we are in new and dangerous territory. I am glad, if worse comes to worse, that I am a 4-5 hour drive to Ontario. Hope it never comes to that but the future is as fuzzy as ever in the US.

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Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Fri Nov 25, 2016, 12:45 AM

43. Right on. We need to legitimize this election no matter the result so people can move on

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Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Fri Nov 25, 2016, 12:49 AM

44. I'm calling it. PA flips blue. Just a gnawing feeling. That's how rotten things really probably

are.

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Response to zonkers (Reply #44)

Fri Nov 25, 2016, 09:40 AM

49. Good luck getting a flip in Pa.

Every time I vote I ask for a receipt, I never get one. I'm no expert in the matter but I believe that most machines in Pa. have no paper trail, there is nothing to compare or show where a vote cast was different than a vote tabulated, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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Response to watoos (Reply #49)

Fri Nov 25, 2016, 10:45 AM

50. No trail No accident.

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Response to watoos (Reply #49)

Fri Nov 25, 2016, 02:21 PM

51. It varies from county to county. Allegheny always gives us a ticket stub receipt with a voter ID #.

All the votes are stored with no paper, electronically, in a secure flash card for each machine and on the Master PEB cartridge, but they can be displayed on a computer screen, post-election. That's useful if there are voters who have data points they're willing to openly offer. (I voted on machine 1 in my precinct/district, ~ 12:30 pm, voted one at a time for all Dem candidates save one, wrote in a name for my unopposed Dem state rep, and voted against the raising Judge age initiative. So there should be a vote stored, on the district/precinct Master cart for Ward 19, District 28, City of Pittsburgh, from machine 1 at 12:30 that shows those exact preferences recorded. That vote should also be stored on machine 1's flash card. If there isn't a vote for Hillary Clinton for Prez and "Gi Gi Sullivan" for PA State Rep on machine 1 at ~ 12:30, that is evidence of felony election tampering that benefitted the repug prez candidate. The machines are called DREs, Direct Recording Electronic, they're supposed to record, store, then transfer the actual ballot cast by each voter to the Master cart.)

We sign in to vote on a paper voter certificate card, kept alphabetically in a box that looks like an old library card catalogue. There's a paper district binder that has an alphabetical list of registered voters with photostat copies of the voters' signatures, which they submitted when they registered to vote for the first time, or when they moved to a new polling district and re-registered. The poll workers write every voter's name on two separate but identitical paper district check in lists, numbered in the order that they checked in to vote. The voter certificate card has a ticket connected to it that is detached, we take it to the poll worker at the machines, they take half the ticket and put it into an envelope hanging on the side of the machine we will vote on, and give us the stub. (I keep mine, some people toss theirs, or lose them, whatever.)

So there's a bunch of paperwork that could be used for verification. The signed voter certificate cards can have their signatures checked against the district register's signatures. The 2 identical district voter check in lists can be crossed referenced with the signed voter cert cards. The voter cert cards' ticket stubs in each machine's envelopes show exactly what signed-in registered voter voted on that particular machine. They're random in the envelope, not kept in any order, to respect the privacy of each voter's vote, in case the voter is afraid to say who they voted for.

IF things were kosher at my poll, there's going to be 524 signed cards, with signatures that substantially match the signatures in the district register (may be a few less, because some ballots were cast absentee, but those ballots have a signature also.) There are going to be 524 (minus absentee #) v cert card tickets divvied up into the envelopes for the 3 machines. The two identical district check in lists will show 524 (minus absentee vote number) names that match with the signed v cert cards. If any of that paperwork doesn't jine, something irregular occurred at the district/precinct level, and it's evidence of election fraud.

With no interference, I bet I could single handedly verify the vote count in my district in less than one day.

And any recount effort could include outreach to district voters listed as having voted, that verifies that they cast a ballot. I'd be more than happy to go door to door on my own time, while not engaged in official recount efforts, in the district I vote in and used to represent as Dem committeeperson, to verify with the listed (checked in) voters that they cast ballots.

In this election, my district/precinct showed both an unusually high (81%) turn out rate (10% higher than the county average) and a "preference for dRumpf" rate that was 14 - 19% higher than the two neighboring polls I worked for election protection, in the neighborhood next door, 3 miles Southeast from me. My polling place was more than a half hour later in completing the poll closing process than the 2 polls I worked, and there was not a crowd of voters visible inside the polls who had not voted yet, but had been in line at 8 pm and were therefore eligibly waiting inside the locked poll to vote. My district/precinct is a Dem stronghold that had zero dRumpf signs visible this election, though there were several (7) visible 3 precincts away from me, 1.5 miles Northwest. When I was a Dem committee person in this district in 2011, there were 486 Dems registered and 141 R s.

Looking at the district paperwork, in a recount, won't do anything about an electronic vote flip on the precinct level, it won't show if there was a hack in the county election dept's central tabulator, it won't show if there was electronic manipulation at the state level where the counties' sent their tabulated results totals to get the overall state results. But, aside from checking the voter datapoint I offered (the actual unique ballot choices I openly admit to making), in past recount efforts there was evidence of electronic irregularities exposed during the recount process.

In Cuyahoga County (Cleveland), for the '04 election recount, there was evidence exposed that a bunch of extra votes had been added for li'l bush. The random audit showed that there was a long run of voters in a row for bush, then a shorter run of voters for Kerry, then another long run of voters for bush, etc. (Conyers Report, What Went Wrong In Ohio? Page 88, paperback edition.) The odds of something like that happening would be the same as flipping a coin 20 times and having it come up tails every time, then flipping it 10 more times and having it come up heads, then flipping it 25 more times and having it be tails, with the resulting totals being recorded as 45 tails, 10 heads. The statistically-nearly-impossible long runs of identical voter preferences showed a lazy and not very sneaky attempt had been made to pump up the repug candidate's vote totals in a Dem stronghold area.

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Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

Fri Nov 25, 2016, 09:31 AM

48. Now that we have completed funding Wisconsin's recount (where we will file on Friday):

Congratulations on meeting the recount costs for Wisconsin and Pennsylvania! Raising money to pay for the first two recounts so quickly is a miraculous feat and a tribute to the power of grassroots organizing.

Now that we have completed funding Wisconsin's recount (where we will file on Friday) and funding Pennsylvania's recount (due Monday), we will focus on raising the needed funds for Michigan's recount (due Wednesday). The breakdown of these costs is described below!

From their web site:

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