what's our plan for helping people in small towns and rural areas get jobs in the service economy

[geek tragedy]

and benefit the way people in urban centers are doing?

Not talking about "higher wages at Walmart" talking about quality jobs that can provide a good income and meaningful opportunity.

Most of the economic benefits of the service economy accrue in areas where there is innovation and where there's demand for services machines can't do--professional services for example. Those areas are almost exclusively urban and suburban.

The cliché is that globalism creates winners and losers. Well, maybe the winners should start figuring out a way to make it possible for more people to become winners. And to make sure people can live wherever they want and still be a winner, rather than having to move away from their hometowns and to large cities with very high costs of living.

Certainly not an easy problem to solve, but with all of the brainpower being used to solve problems in technology, we should really get to work on solving the problems in our society and economy.

Because if we don't, Trumpism--making false promises and offering up scapegoats instead of solutions--will continue to carry the day in large parts of the country.

[LisaM]

1. Move to those small towns and need those services.

We can't keep piling up in cities and expect that the Electoral Map will move.

I don't know why companies like Google and Amazon don't start trying to re-build Middle America. There are lots of small cities that could use a boost.

Presumably some type of service industry will follow (though there, I don't have that much hope, because even here in Seattle the downtown shopping scene has become almost non-existent compared to 20 years ago).

[geek tragedy]

2. Federal government could certainly encourage them to do so.

We need to figure out--or at least start trying to figure out--how to make that happen.

This would also help the problem of gentrification and cost of living in big cities--if people want the good jobs, they all have to go to the city, which jacks up the cost of living.

The structure of the new economy favors urban areas. At some level, folks outside urban areas recognize that in a way that people inside urban areas don't.

[2naSalit]

4. That has been the truth for some time

yet currently what is going on in the rural areas is a gentrification of its own. If you live near a national park, monument or some other tourist attraction, everything has blasted sky high in the last 20 months or a little longer. I just relocated because I could smell the coffee burning and took a leap from a place that was once affordable and a strong community, that has been sold off to the highest bidder and the sellers relocating to the tropics. My nasty little hovel, that I rented increased in rent 250% when I turned in my keys due to vacation rental wave consuming the town and surrounding areas for a hundred miles in all directions. The service industry is here i the rural areas already, the problem is, those with the means to do business out here are greedy and reckless with natural resources and don't care about anyone who was already here.

[geek tragedy]

6. "low impact" tourism is very frequently a myth. nt

[2naSalit]

7. Indeed

just look at the stats on visitation at any national park over the past five or ten years. And our national forests aren't faring that much better.

[LisaM]

17. True - vacation rentals are a problem in lots of places.

In the San Juan Islands, it's a huge problem. Nothing new goes on the market, my friend's mother moved into assisted living and instead of using the house themselves, her kids are doing very expensive rentals, and this is true all over. Meanwhile the papers are seriously suggesting getting approval for "tiny houses" for people who work on the farms, etc. to live in (described as seasonal, but a lot of them are year round).

Really? Expensive tourist digs, surrounding by what are essentially worker shacks? How anyone thinks this is a solution is beyond me.

[physioex]

3. Not going to happen....

I don't have the exact figures but a company of 100K people control wealth in the billions. They are a concentration of wealth not a distribution of wealth. Folks in those areas are of no interest to companies like Facebook and Google.

[geek tragedy]

5. That's where Presidental leadership could make a difference nt

[physioex]

8. Might not....

Like I said, they don't have any skills to offer. If we had a 'smart President' he/she could recognize the importance of renewables and begin a massive projects to build out wind farms and solar arrays. But I won't be holding my breath.....

[geek tragedy]

12. there's not going to be an overnight fix, but that's not an excuse for delaying the fix imo nt

[RKP5637]

9. Exactly!!! Their focus is on market share and wealth enhancement, not people. Also, I've

worked in companies where they wanted to move into rural areas (cheap land) and no one wanted to go. Where they were successful, only 10% of the employees requested to move moved. The rest found other jobs in the company or moved on to other companies. Many people don't like rural areas and especially not economically depressed areas.

[physioex]

13. Good point....

Those employees tend to be into Multi-cultural activities, things you cannot do in rural areas.

[DemonGoddess]

10. Funny you should bring that up

since that's one of the many policies HRC had on her site. How to bring jobs to these areas, while moving them towards our current and future tech work. Specifically with manufacturing for renewable energy plants. The parts have to be made somewhere, so why not that?

[geek tragedy]

11. That type of idea needs to be put front and center in the future

The details of campaign plans don't get noticed unless the candidate repeatedly comes back to them.

Resolving the urban/rural economic/political/cultural divide is our main project if we're to get back to winning the Great Lakes states and other areas left behind by the current economy.

[uponit7771]

14. help them move to where jobs are?!

[geek tragedy]

15. having too many high earners living in urban areas hurts the less affluent people in those areas

as well. Drives up the cost of living (especially housing).

[Amishman]

53. not possible, both socially and economically

a lot of rural residents are priced out of successful suburban/urban areas

and a lot of rural residents would be absolutely miserable in cities. I know this, I am one of them. I live in Lancaster county PA (amish country), because after living in DC for 5 years I never want to set foot in a major city again. I just can't stand it. I'm willing to have a 75 minute commute if it means I get to live away from people.

We need targeted business incentives, tax breaks for creating good jobs in areas with high unemployment and/or low median income. Maybe include an incentive related to population density of the county.

I hear talk about infrastructure spending as a fix all for rural employment woes. That won't be enough. My unemployed 50 year old mother can't drive a bulldozer. We need a widespread revival in these areas.

One other thing, gun control is spectacularly unpopular out here. We should draw a line at supporting background checks, safe storage, and training requirements for those who want to carry guns. No more talk of bans of any kind.

[Demsrule86]

16. Name a good paying 'service' job.

It is a bullshit idea that we can have 'service' jobs and prosperity. We still drive cars, have phones, watch TV. All of those things can be made here and should be made here.

[geek tragedy]

18. Doctor, lawyer, engineer, IT, accountant. There's 5. nt

[Demsrule86]

19. Oh please...do you think we can be a nation of lawyers...and all the jobs you mention

require college...oh and hubs accounting department just sent the jobs overseas. AS for IT...most of the IT people I know lost jobs to India...you are kidding yourself. there are not enough good jobs for the masses without manufacturing of some sort.

[geek tragedy]

20. lots of jobs being lost to technology that won't be coming back.

It happened to auto manufacturers, it happened to travel agents, it happened to department store employees

starting up manufacturing on any scale would require massive amounts of capital investment, up front, from the private sector.

Wish upon a star ...

[Demsrule86]

22. They still use people to build cars and phones and lots of things

so that isn't true...and the technology jobs are going away too...so I guess no one will have jobs and that is OK with some...well you won't win elections until you deal with trade...Trump won't do anything but someone will come along. It is only a matter of time. I hope it is a Democrat.

[geek tragedy]

35. takes a lot fewer people to build stuff than it used to.

closing the ports to imports seems like an easy fix, but that's an illusion

[marybourg]

28. I don't shop in department stores

so I'm curious; what technology replaced department store employees? I thought their jobs were lost due to greed on the part of management. Do we now have robot salespeople? Or no salespeople? Just asking.

[bettyellen]

32. Much less people- retailers are downsizing too. They used to have separate stock people

But now they get the sales floor people to do it. Hire temp contractors to do display. They've all pretty much closed stores down too. Retail is hurting except games phones and TVs.

[geek tragedy]

37. that, and people order a lot of goods online

Heck, remember when people used to work at Blockbuster?

[bettyellen]

44. Yes, and it's killing the business.

[geek tragedy]

34. amazon.com nt

[marybourg]

40. Yes, I see. However it takes

many employees to keep Amazon going. Some, alas, don't have to be in the U.S to do their jobs. Although the same could be true of back-office dept. store employees.

[geek tragedy]

42. it takes employees, but not nearly as many as it does to maintain

a brick and mortar store operation. No cashiers, no building maintenance, not displays to arrange, no security guards, no salespeople, much more streamlined distribution system, etc.

The more efficient a business becomes, the fewer employees it needs.

[bettyellen]

45. Also the robotics involved in picking and packing. The US does not do QA audits for most products

These days either (30 yeas ago, every retailer had a quality department) now they just have one or two "safety" inspectors who glance at paperwork and try to find errors that could mean lawsuits.

[forjusticethunders]

21. Well, since me and Starry won't be nationalizing the means of production anytime soon

1: Infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure. Create networks of bus and light rail between the midsize county seats and the rural areas. Massive broadband expansion. Google Fiber national? Better rural and exurban planning to make sure small towns are more walkable and less car-dependent.

2: Debt-free college and career training as Hillary proposed, with an expansion of mobile/e-learning/etc options for rural areas

3: Clean energy, especially in former coal/fracking areas. Wind/Solar/Geo is a massive growth industry and by shifting dirty energy workers into clean energy, it not only provides new opportunity, but creates an economic investment in environmentalism.

Eventually we're going to need some sort of universal basic income as increasing automation and efficiency makes work superfluous.

Too tired to think of more.

[Demsrule86]

23. It sounds lovely but do you think any of that will really happen?

[geek tragedy]

39. I'm on board with that. Democrats should lead with something like that

going forward

[BainsBane]

24. Clinton's campaign website had details

When she announced an economic development zone for coal areas, Sanders supporters here denounced it. They claimed it was "pandering."

Here: https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2015/11/12/clinton-plan-to-revitalize-coal-communities/

You can also find more on job creation on her site.

[bettyellen]

33. They were afraid she'd get some of those WCW votes Sanders prized so....

[greytdemocrat]

25. Robot repair.

[LonePirate]

26. Until we build a nationwide 1 GB internet infrastructure, not much will change.

There are plenty of small businesses across the country which would benefit from a global marketplace and all of its amenities if people in rural and small town America could connect to it.

[jeffreyi]

36. Yes, agree.

Lack of high speed (or any) internet is a bottleneck in my rural area. If it were available a lot of pretty good things would be possible in our local "rural third world" economy. The local provider (name starts with an F) won't run the fiber optic where it needs to go,

[JI7]

27. it doesn't help those areas are hostile to minorities moving in

but i have been saying green energy companies need to open business in west virginia and other coal areas and start hiring people.

[geek tragedy]

38. yeah, instead they keep on hiring people in Seattle and the SF Bay area

A lot cheaper to operate out of WV.

[BeyondGeography]

29. Not sure, but they do need better and more affordable Internet service

I keep a place in the boonies and you wouldn't believe how sucktastic my Internet bills are. 30 gb/mo. for $120, and $10 for every extra gig. It's Verizon and I'm sure they and their fellow telecoms pay both parties very good money for those margins.

[pnwmom]

30. What's our plan for the 43% of jobs they think we'll lose in the relatively near future

due to computers and robotics?

[ucrdem]

31. The TPP is specifically written to help US farmers sell regional foods overseas.

But nooooooooooooo.

[LeftInTX]

41. Wisconsin 2016 compared to 2012

Clinton vs Trump


Obama vs Romney


We need to win back areas that we won in 2012. Wisconsin only has 2 major cities, yet it voted for Obama in 2012. We even lost Racine and Kenosha Counties this time. (I don't consider them rural, they're part of the Milwaukee-Chicago connection) Obama even carried extremely rural Price County. (Largest town: 2,500) Note the large amounts of blue in western counties: Obama carried Eau Claire, La Crosse etc. Hillary lost the western part of the state.

[geek tragedy]

43. This happened in state after state after state.

Dark blue became light blue, light blue became light pink, light pink became dark red.

We can't just run up the score in big cities and hope to prevail. Especially with the way the house of representatives works.

[LeftInTX]

46. But if we can win areas like Eau Claire and LaCrosse in 2012

There is still hope.

Although Hillary had a good plan, her messaging wasn't the best. I don't know what TV ads were like in WI, but her ads in TX were Trump attack ads. I never saw a Hillary ad with a concise economic message (At least in TX) Throw in Benghazi, emails, Comey etc.

I think during October, the Hillary campaign was watching Trump implode and capitalized on that...only to be surprised by a very negative Comey letter on Oct 28th. There was some overconfidence in her campaign. For instance, she spent a lot of time in NC, even though polls and early voting were showing she probably wouldn't win there. I think there was a feeling she could expand the 2012 map.

[geek tragedy]

48. Trump never imploded.

His polling numbers took a hit, but there was always a durable number of people who were going to turn out for him that didn't care about conventional norms for a president.

That's disturbing and dangerous, of course, but it's where we are.

Democrats have 2 years then 4 years to paint him as a failure. He has to be judged on his performance in office, and it will suck. Democrats have to learn to not let the outrages obscure the scandals and failures.

[libtodeath]

47. It all starts at local levels,government needs to show it makes peoples lives better.

[geek tragedy]

49. Democrats tend to neglect that local government thing while we hold the presidency.

Fun fact: After the 2008 elections, 29/50 governors were Democrats.

[Tanuki]

50. Lots of good ideas here:

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/


This only works if people vote rationally.

[geek tragedy]

51. and they have complete access to information

How many people knew about those plans?

Clinton didn't tout them in ads as much as she ran "Trump is a terrible human being" ads

[Squinch]

52. I'll be willing to consider this when they take some responsibility for their wellbeing and vote for

someone who is not a con artist who wants to take the little they have left.

Sorry. I'm just not there in the grief process. Right now I plan to just watch as they reap all they have sown.

You can make all the plans you like. They'll throw them back in your face, as they have just done. Because they know better.

So be it.