2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI have been out doing canvassing and it's not a sure thing people
If you have not volunteered, you need to do so.
I knocked 8 a lot of doors the last two weekends and the responses I have been getting is not a sure thing. The right wing and media smear campaign has really caused negative opinions out there.
Everyone I talked to except 1 person said there was no way they could vote for Trump, they just weren't happy about Hillary.
In the end, I was able to at least carry a conversation with many of them and provide them with some literature. Hopefully I made a difference.
Here is my point: We all need to get out there, knock on doors or make phone calls. Even if you don't live in a swing state you can make calls in these important swing states.
We have to make sure Hillary wins this thing, we cannot allow Trump to become President.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)At this point, based on the polls since the conventions and the clear trend since then, and the steady and consistent lead enjoyed by Clinton over Trump in states which comprise 270 electoral votes between them, I'm extremely confident that Trump is not going to win.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Because the GOP will go into attack mode immediately after the election. I can see the Koch brothers renting buses and the Tea Party demonstrations starting up.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)This is a mistake to sit back on our laurels....Trump will put out all stops to win, including voting machine hacking, voter fraud etc
lastlib
(23,166 posts)PLEASE, people, get out and work your butts off for the only obstacle to putting tRumpolini in the White House!
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)vote fraud, trumpsters saying hey if Dems don't like voter ID, then of course we can vote in as many different precincts as we want and claim we have no ID, make up SSN's and names, no worries. I hope any that try go to prison.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)I would change that to sit back on our asses.
liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)This is just one of the many examples of how overconfidence and hubris found their "Waterloo" at the voting booth.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Recommended.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)But I agree, lots of door to door, GOTV stuff needs to be done!
RandySF
(58,511 posts)TeamPooka
(24,209 posts)Onlooker
(5,636 posts)It's not a sure thing, I agree, and I hope Hillary comes out fighting back against all the lies, distortions, and exaggerations about her that are polluting the media. I truly believe that Hillary could be a great president, but she has to overcome the sexism that paints women as untrustworthy and manipulative, especially given the fact that the Republicans have mastered the art of racism and sexism in a way that fools a lot of people.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)And it looks like from her calendar that she is planning to do just that.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What were the reasons they gave for not being happy about Hillary?
liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)Most just tell you they don't like either, its as if the repeat the M $M rhetoric. And you can't get them to ask you questions about any issues.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)You can tell from my name where I went to college.
Seemed like it was all about the economy. Jobs, jobs, jobs as they say.
liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)My group was assigned to go door to door in Elyria, which was in pretty rough shape economically. Probably even worse now.
I remember being taken aback by how many Perot fans we encountered!
liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)Yes it is a pretty rough area. Never canvass alone.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Critical state, as usual.
tom_kelly
(957 posts)About an experience I had 2 weeks ago and was basically laughed off and made a joke of. It's not a sure thing.
Monk06
(7,675 posts)An old vid for an even older object lesson
riversedge
(70,092 posts)ErikJ
(6,335 posts)She has shown the last 30 yrs of tax records and Trump is hiding all of his. Why?
Factcheckers say 70% of all Trump's statements are false. vs. Clinton's 27% false.
Trump Univ was a scam and he's being sued for it.
He has his Trump brand shirts and products made in China.
And much more
Maddchick
(38 posts)positive ads after Labor Day. Each ad needs to address one or two specific lies by the media or Trump and his surrogates. The truth ads need to be played all over the airwaves in swing states including satellite radio and local stations. There is a lot of information out there about what the Obama administration has accomplished but the most important information about unmet goals needs to be directly linked to GOP obstructionism as well as Mr. Trump's unworkable plans.
Most people do not know that the GOP left a bi-partisan immigration bill languishing in the House because Mr. Boehner refused to bring it to a vote. And even more people do not know or understand that the President's Executive Order on immigration is pretty much what Mr. Trump is saying now as he pivots.
People need to be reminded that the economy has always done better under Democrats and because unions have always been supported by Democrats. There is a lot of information out there that can be used in short direct points about how the growth of the middle class was a direct result of the power of unions. Sure there was some corruption but there are few unions now and still massive corruption in corporations. Minorities need to understand that the direct assault on unions was partly driven by racist motives as well. All ships were rising under union power including the households and living standards of minorities and women. That was one reason the unions were hated by the GOP and RW. A little bit of truth if told the right way can counter a lot of lies and half-truths. History is on our side.
Let's do this thing people!! We can make a difference.
Native
(5,936 posts)bottomofthehill
(8,318 posts)I too was a little worried bu the responses I was getting last week. People do not like Hillary. Thankfully, they have little faith in Trump either, she is often thought of as the lesser of the two evils so the push is to make sure the pursuadables know that she is more than competent and capable to do the job.
hay rick
(7,588 posts)I have knocked on hundreds of doors and currently organize and run a phone bank. I have talked to a lot of voters. There is a lot of disgust for Trump but not a lot of enthusiasm for Hillary.
The overarching narrative of the media coverage has been to reinforce the idea that both candidates are obnoxious and dishonest. A lot of voters have swallowed it whole. My concern is that many Democratic voters will grab the excuse to not vote.
LAS14
(13,769 posts)I'm photo-copying a couple of the best explanations for the truth behind the smears to hand to people who are on the fence. It's just too complicated to deal with easily in a conversation.
BTW, what state are you in?
Sugarcoated
(7,716 posts)My husband and I will be going door to door here in the Philly burbs.
LAS14
(13,769 posts)Sugarcoated
(7,716 posts)qwlauren35
(6,145 posts)Share.
LAS14
(13,769 posts)qwlauren35
(6,145 posts)Debunking the myth that she killed Vince Foster. Who knows why a man kills himself... but I hate this one.
Debunking the myth that she stole $200,000 worth of goods from the white house. Haven't seen that one debunked yet.
It's good to be able to debunk the Monsanto myth.
LAS14
(13,769 posts)I haven't checked, myself. So I'm not sure you'll find them. I'd think the Vince Foster one. I never heard the $200,000 one.
qwlauren35
(6,145 posts)The truth of the story about the $200K in goods is partially true. The numbers are definitely wrong, but the truth is there was a gray area between whether they took personal gifts and whether they took items intended for the White House, and some things were returned.
http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-stole-white-house-furniture/
I feel better knowing the truth.
Response to liberal N proud (Original post)
Post removed
vadermike
(1,415 posts)I have some friends like this too Unfortunately this will be closer than we like the debates will have impact May God help us
7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)This election will b e historic in lack of voter turnout.
Now there is cause for concern about the integrity of the voting apparatus? A little late,wouldn't you say?.
Demsrule86
(68,471 posts)It is never too late. And I believe this election will be much like other elections...in that, a fair number of people just don't believe their vote matters and will stay home. I blame the elected for that...nothing gets done. The Senate filibuster has to go. I blame the GOP mostly for the last eight years. But Dems should have ended the filibuster years ago when they could have. And the gerrymander must be addressed. No matter who you vote for, and more voted for Democrats for the House ...the last two cycles, the GOP still wins.
UCmeNdc
(9,600 posts)Clinton needs to get out there and fight for those votes. Her hiding is letting Donald Trump maintain the narrative. Clinton's surrogates need to attack and not back down one inch. What is wrong with these people running the Clinton campaign?
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)They are still hiding their incompetence from last campaign.
Look at what it took to lodge DWS loose. It looks like Debbie is going to crash the election again, because her script (don't confront, Hide, guilt trip instead of win) is still in place.
And before people say I am against Hillary, I am trying to keep her from getting into the car with the same power drunk idiots who keep crashing on the way to the White House.
DownriverDem
(6,226 posts)When a Dem wins the presidency he/she gets to put in who they want to head the DNC. So DWS would have been gone anyway. Not sure about the rest of your comment, but DWS' district liked her enough to win the primary. All Dem seats are important. Keep your eyes on the prize or we get squat: White House - Supreme Court - Senate -House
LenaBaby61
(6,973 posts)Hillary at some point had to cool down in a sense and fund raise for herself and for other Democrats running for races down the ballot, and she raised an astounding $143 million dollars which WILL go to good use.
Also, I read last Thursday that Hillary post Labor Day, will have the likes of the Pres., Vice President, Liz Warren, Bernie and of course Tim Kaine (For himself and for her) and even a Republican like Meg Whitman amongst others will be campaigning for/with her on the road. Now, there are 2 things that DO have me concerned.
1. Dem/Hillary Surrogates: There are some very WEAK Democratic surrogates with the exception of a few (James Carvel, Dr. Dean, Lani Davis, Donna Brazile and a few others) I've seen. Some of them are quite useless and ALLOW right-winged surrogates from tRump's camp to flat out LIE and talk over them and they really don't get around to defending her, and when they do try, they're so long-winded that they lose the message or the person interviewing them butts in and stops them from talking, or the interviewer asks dumb and stupid questions--and when that happens I've seen a few Dem/Hillary surrogates smile or they go silent, and the tRump surrogate jumps back in and continues to talk after they've already had their shot to speak. I'd never allow a right-winger or biased interviewer to get the best of me like that, especially when most if not all of these tRump surrogates tell out and out LIES which can be refuted with FACTS. No, I'd interrupt them and not be so polite and sweet and gentle. You have to get your message in and stop with all the smiling and saying "excuse me, excuse me" while then tRump surrogate KEEPS talking. Even if I was stopped, I'd go down trying to get MY point across.
2. The upcoming Debates: The so-called "Liberal Media" is setting the bar SO low (Even lower than for Dubya) that if tRump can string together a few sentences and not call Hillary the c-word and maybe Crooked Hillary 2 instead of 10 times and keep from being TOO rude to her, he may be declared the winner of any and all debates, and we know that's wholly unfair because unlike his dumb ass, Hillary will be ready with facts, knowledge of any and most subjects and will of course have a keen knowledge and grasp of everything or most things economic, domestic and global which tRump hasn't a clue about, and we know the media can get this narrative that tRump did "well" run with it and I think you get my point. I can see Mrs. Greenspan saying "Well Donald Trump mostly stayed on message and only insulted Mrs. Clinton a few times--keeping his temper in check, and many have said that he especially did well to control himself and he wasn't rattled when Mrs. Clinton went after him--some say unfairly and in a screeching manner--about the way he calls her Crooked Hillary." I can see that ridiculous assessment dripping off the jealous lips of Mrs. Greenspan as she smiles gleefully as she trashes Hillary in her very first debate for being too screechy
Finally, I don't want to project TOO much, TOO early before any debate and surely don't want to get too negative, but MOST in the media have gone plumb loco and are so darned "Liberal" it's not funny ..... and especially so after that debacle we saw concerning him going to Mexico where he embarrassed himself (But SOME in the media were allowed to say he didn't embarrass himself, plus he reset his whole campaign and we're essentially all tied up), and especially after that Hitler-Lite speech he gave on the same evening where some again in the media were allowed to keep saying he seemed presidential (Even though he gave me Hitler-Lite teas up there behind that podium when he was spewing, screaming, yelling and waving and wagging his small hands in the air like a dictator).
Demsrule86
(68,471 posts)In fact, the media wants a horserace just like with Romney. They are propping him up.
Demsrule86
(68,471 posts)She is out there campaigning ...the media is obsessed with Donald and pretty much ignores Hillary. There is nothing wrong with the people running Clinton's campaign...and I was doing GOTV and found many Hillary voters in my area of Ohio...she will win. And you support the Democratic nominee.
cstanleytech
(26,244 posts)Trump is doing a far better job hurting himself every time he opens his mouth and it doesn't cost her campaign a dime.
I suspect we will see her turning up the heat from simmer to high so as to fully cook him in about 3 weeks.
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)better and been playing up optics real good i.e., Mexico visit, black church visit... remains to be seen how the people ultimately view it but the optics are playing well.
cstanleytech
(26,244 posts)earlier with immigrants an minority voters.
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)The optics are for the Suburban white middle class, who typically shy away from Progressive ideology, but really don't like Trump because they fear he is a hustler, if he can scoop up an extra percent or two from POC then he just smiles to himself.
cstanleytech
(26,244 posts)though.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Everyone else.
MADem
(135,425 posts)You might try checking her schedule before accusing her of "hiding." She's out there, making appearances, as is Kaine, Bill, Joe Biden and others. If the media wants to focus on that lunatic opponent, LET THEM--you can't undo the flip-flopping bullshit that guy has done in this week alone.
You seriously call THIS "hiding?" https://hillaryspeeches.com/scheduled-events/ How awfully busy she is, hiding at all these rallies and events!!!
Sounds like yet another "narrative"--this "hiding" bullshit.
People watching the news see T-Rump as some sort of sick national entertainment. They're either cheering him on every time he says something vilely racist or sexist while ironing their sheets and pointed hat, or they are shaking their head at him like he's a rogue elephant painted green who is pooping on a Mercedes in Park Square, or something, but no one is focusing on the issues--as they NEVER do until after Labor Day.
The battle lines are drawn. There are no "real" undecideds--there are people who will PRETEND to be undecideds to get attention, from canvassers, from news media, from interested friends and acquaintances--but this election is stark and clear. Racist, sexist asshole-nitwit vs. the most dynamic, intelligent, hardworking change-maker in the whole damn world.
I predict a landslide. You heard it here, if not first, with the most verve.
"Hiding" means "no ads".
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)do not predict without presenting some factual evidence. It dimishes our efforts to defeat rump, imo. I reject your predictions. Trust no one is the first option on a blog, second option, get off the blogs and take action.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Here's my 'factual evidence:' I have a brain, and I know how to use it.
If you reject my predictions, just who are you rooting for, hmmm?
FWIW, this is not a "blog," it is a discussion board, where people share things called "opinions." I gave mine. You don't have to like it, but then again, I don't have to like your fearful "concern" either, so we're even.
As for my dedication to the process, I've delivered thousands of souls to the polls over the years--I do my part, so I'm not worried at all about my level of contribution to the cause.
LittleGirl
(8,280 posts)I spoke to many of my friends in the Midwest about the election during a recent visit and I've discovered that many of my friends are liberal thinkers. They will NOT vote for Trump and they will really miss Obama. They aren't a big fan of Hillary but they know that if they don't vote, Trump will get elected.
Demsrule86
(68,471 posts)And let me tell you there was little enthusiasm for Pres. Obama at that time. But we persevered and I think changed some minds. And the fact is with the new map, the GOP has to run the table, and they won't. All the coverage Donald is receiving is not good coverage...he is not expanding his base at all ....quite the opposite in my opinion.
LittleGirl
(8,280 posts)LAS14
(13,769 posts)... to give to people who tend to believe the smears. There are so many, and they are so complicated, that it's hard to just have a chat. Lead off with, "Yeah, I was puzzled by that too..." or something similar. Then, but I found these articles to be very helpful."
LittleGirl
(8,280 posts)I would. Thanks.
MADem
(135,425 posts)to "defend" her. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/
She's the only logical choice to anyone with even half a brain. Of course, if your friends are racists and sexists, there's no hope--they will not be moved because they lack the necessary gray matter to make the appropriate decision.
Gothmog
(144,939 posts)cstanleytech
(26,244 posts)mental retardation so I can forgive him for it since I know that it's largely due to the people at the church he attends as well as the influence of some other people that he hangs around.
randr
(12,409 posts)She does need to hold a press conference and answer the questions people have re: email releases. She really must put this behind her and not allow it to continue as it has.
I know 95% of this is bullshit but when they are slinging bullshit you have to make an attempt to get rid of it.
Democrat surrogates could also help if they adopt the Republican model of repeating the daily talking point.
Trump is less trusted and that is the final point that must be conveyed.
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)go head on into the controversy, because this drip drip shit is just annoying and giving fodder to the wingnuts.
Until the press examines its own behavior, a press conference is a moot point, IMO. You know it'll be an attack dog session and nothing more, and no answer she gives will ever satisfy them. They're to blame for this situation, and all their whining about press conferences is nothing more than them being pissed off because she won't play their bullshit game.
I think less hand wringing and more working for the campaign is a better way to go. I'm spending the day making calls, and I've had a canvasser stop by the other day. I live in a mostly republican neighborhood, but almost all have acknowledged that Trump is not an option and Johnson is a wasted vote. None of them love Clinton, but they're smart people, and don't think she's the devil incarnate, either. GOTV efforts will work with that portion of the electorate more than anything else, I'm fully convinced.
randr
(12,409 posts)In regards to how the Donald is playing 24/7, he is a media genius.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Donald Trump is taking a massive shit center stage and lighting his hair on fire.
Clinton "needs" to keep doing her rallies and interviews, and let the Con-ald blow himself up all on his own. Nobody gives an actual shit about her damned emails--to paraphrase Bernie Sanders....but Trumpeteers sure do!
Who watches TV during summer? Answer--no one. That's why they put on reruns and crap summer replacement cheap programming. Most people are trying to get in a little vacay and fun--and Labor Day weekend is the cap on the season.
She'll be travelling w/the press and no doubt some will get "better" access, but if they try to kneecap her, they won't get Most Favored Nation consideration, nor should they.
ffr
(22,665 posts)there's another side to Hillary that the horserace M$M don't want the public to see. You show that there are people, like them, passionate about her. And through your words, you make a difference in getting a few more people to think and possibly head to the polls in November.
Great work!
BBbats
(89 posts)I live in a small town not far from Philadelphia PA.
Now it's not like I've taken a poll or anything but I would bet that a lot of folks here are gonna push that button for Trump.
Nobody comes out and says that they are for him and I don't see Trump signs or bumper stickers anywhere( no Hillary signs/stickers as well) but just by talking to people here I'd bet they will go Trump.
A lot of folks here really hate Hillary. They believe all the mud and bullshit that's been thrown at her. Now I believe they know damn well within themselves that Trump is full of shit but they are highly amused at his rhetoric. They also buy big time into the "Mexicans come over here and get free everything" crap. Sometimes I think people can't tell the difference between politics and a TV reality show.
These people aren't rednecks or hicks. They are good intentioned blue collar/middle class working folks. I don't discuss politics with people (except friends) but I can't tell you how many times I've heard " I don't like Trump but I'm not voting for that bitch". And that has come out of the mouths of women as well as men.
Sorry,I'm scared!
True Dough
(17,255 posts)so it's rather irrelevant, but the hate for Trump here is overwhelming. That said, I've heard fellow Canadians refer to Hillary as a "bitch." There is a feeling among some that the Clintons are entitled and "above the law." It will be difficult for them to shake that, whether justified or as a result of years of media smears, or a combination of both.
I'm just hoping that a majority of Americans will realize voting for Drumpf is far worse than voting for Hillary.
DownriverDem
(6,226 posts)The massive RWNJ repub media hate machine against both Bill & Hillary going back to the 1990s has taken it's toll. Will the debates help? I don't see how voters won't see a major difference between Hillary and Trump. One is only there for himself. And Hillary is there for all of us. She's been working for us going back decades. Besides with Trump you also get all the RWNJ repubs that are loyal to him. Then we would also get the RWNJs in the House and Senate too. I'm so in Hillary's camp, that it is very hard for me to think folks would vote for Trump. In fact it horrifies me.
vi5
(13,305 posts)...and only because of how horrible Trump is.
I don't like her as our candidate and other than the "so and so would be worse!" factor I don't think she'll be a particularly good president.
That being said, even I think she's better off running the way she's been running. My big fear with her as the candidate was that she would try to say too much and please too many people and wind up getting her words twisted to all hell by the media and the right wing noise machine.
So I definitely think she's doing the right thing. She'll get her chance to say what she wants in the debates, and she's been running some really good ads at least in my area.
Again, I'm not happy with her as our candidate but I'm voting for her, and I have no complaints about the type of campaign she has been running. i think she is doing exactly what she needs to.
You say "I don't like her as our candidate and other than the "so and so would be worse!" factor I don't think she'll be a particularly good president."
What is your reason to say that? I need to know so I can counter that when I am knocking on doors.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)Also she's tepid on climate change in their view - they want a candidate whose going to make it their #1 priority over everything else.
One person from my Bernie group won't vote for her because she said she'd put Bill in charge of the economy. They're also convinced Bill will fuck things up with his horndog shit and they refuse to get into trying to defend him.
Everyone mentions the private server as a big example of her poor judgement (plus her laughter over Libya and Gaddafi, no fly zone proposal over Syria yadda yadda).
Bottom line is they really just don't like her. The ones I know who won't vote for her have reasons. I can't reach these folks - they're hard core voting 3rd party right now. Peripherally other Dem acquaintances just viscerally don't like her like they don't like Joe Leiberman or Ben Nelson.
Good luck and keep going!
liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)And buying the lies.
Just don't like her, is lame, do they think they will like a Trump America?
Arazi
(6,829 posts)I'm on your side. We need real answers to these. I dont have any but I'd love some suggestions
clutterbox1830
(395 posts)Honestly, this is probably your best argument to reach those specific people and support Hillary (albeit tepidly.) As a fellow Bernie supporter, I too am disappointed that he is not the Democratic nominees. However, we already know what happens when an incompetent Republican becomes president and we must not allow this to happen again at any cost. How many lives will be lost or how many rights will be stripped if Trump becomes president? They dont believe that. Well, here are some history to jog their memories.
I remember 16 years ago, there were plenty of people that did not like Bush or Gore either. Many of those voters decided to vote for Nader instead because a) his policies aligned more to their own or b) as a protest vote in order not to vote for the establishment. At that time, a lot of people did not like Gores personality and found him to be untrustworthy. (Sounds a little familiar.) At the same time they thought Bush was an idiot and a drunk. These people didn't care who would become the next US president.
Jump forward 8 years of Bush presidency and we saw how disastrous it really was. Here are just a few "highlights" of the Bush's tenure:
- 9/11. Now I cant say for certain that this attack would have happened under Gores presidency, but I do know that his administration would not have blatantly ignore security intelligence briefing months leading to the attack.
- 2 disastrous wars that lead to thousand of american soldier deaths and probably over million civilizations too. Also the war cost of trillions of dollars.
- Economy with the biggest recession since 1945 that lead to millions of Americans to lose their jobs, homes, and life savings.
- Continual deregulation of the banking and energy sectors. Remember all those rolling blackouts during those years.
- Introduction and implementation of Republican policies. For example, State/federal private prisons and the school voucher programs
- Denying federal money to science and research because of religious beliefs.
- Continual destruction of worker unions.
If Gore would have gotten .01% more votes in FL, the Supreme court would have been vastly different and we wouldnt had usher in the most conservative Supreme court ever recorded. Here are a few SC rulings would not have happened if Gore's was able to select replacement justices.
- Citizens united win over FEC. This ruling legitimize the creation of political Super-pacs. One of the biggest issues for us Bernie supporters is to get money out of politics, The ruling is basically does the opposite. The ruling literally classifies that "Cooperation are people" and should have the as rights than the masses if not more .
- Shelby County, Alabama win over Holder - This ruling stripped away the Voting Rights act and made it harder for minorities to vote.
I really could go on and on, but it would be depressing. I did not even go over all nightmare policies that Trump would introduce too or how many group that he would radicalize. One thing I do guarantee is that any prestige/respect that the US has by the rest of the world will be lost once Trump gets into office.
Hillary might not be the candidate that they wanted, but we seen what happen when the alternative gets into power. Their policies and rulings cannot be easily undone once they leave office. Millions of lives will be affect by this election and our fellow Americans cannot ignore this election because their preferred candidate is not available.
vi5
(13,305 posts)Those aren't reasons to vote FOR someone. They are reasons to vote AGAINST someone else. Those are 2 different things for people who are unconvinced and think the system just sucks in general. They may be fine for people like us who are high information voters and who understand the consequences, but for people who are not political junkies and who need reasons to vote FOR someone rather than AGAINST someone else you are going to need much more than that.
You're proving the point that we're making about her being a lukewarm candidate for president that people in general are not enthusiastic about.
vi5
(13,305 posts)I think her foreign policy is right of center. I'm far from an isolationist, but her foreign policy vision seems to be to the right of Obama who already is fairly status quo.
I don't like the people she surrounds herself with. It was the same issue I had with Obama but he made it even worse by most of his cabinet picks and advisers (Summers, Emmanuel, etc.). I have no reason Clinton will be any different.
I think he economic policies will be even less "rock the boat" than Obamas. Meaning she will continue to buy into the notion that raising taxes is bad, that the deficit is bad, coddling corporations is good, etc.
I think Obama's support of organized labor was horrible. I see no reason to believe she will change anything.
In short I think she's going to be a "maintain the status quo" president which is not what we need right now. I get that Obama faced intense obstruction and I know she's going to face the same obstruction if not worse. We need someone who has the fortitude and gumption to break through that obstruction finally and stand up to it in a way that Obama was unwilling.
My fear is that playing it safe now solidifies the worst elements of Obama's presidency while not expanding on the good parts of it, which need to be expanded on.
And yes, I know there are a whole bunch of plans and proposals she's made, but I'm sorry history tells me that again she plays it safe at every single turn and will not have the courage to push through and be aggressive in the face of adversity.
Do I think she'll be a "bad" president? No. But as I said I don't think she'll be a particularly good one either. And unless she's bold and aggressive I don't think she'll win a second term.
liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)Think long and hard about that!
vi5
(13,305 posts)If you're looking to counter valid arguments, criticisms and reservations people might have, then "Trump is worse!!!" is not exactly motivating for people who aren't political junkies.
I've been saying this for a long time now but I have been a registered, primary voting, every single election from president down to dog catcher straight Dem ticket voting Democrat since 1986. I'm a political junkie who pays close attention. So if I'M halfhearted and lukewarm about Hillary as President, and my only motivating factor in voting for her is that the other guy will be worse, what do you think most non-partisan, low information, non-committed voters are going to think?
You wanted to know my reasons so you could counter them when going door to door or trying to convince people and the best you could come up with was "And what will Trump provide"? Then you prove my point entirely.
The other thing is, that even if you were to point to Hillary's positions on any number of important topics, she has a long, sordid history of making her positions politically expedient rather than what is right. So people who already don't think she has the strength of any convictions beyond what is best for her aren't going to be easily convinced that the positions she is taking trying to drum up votes will actually mean anything once she is in office and has what she wants.
True Dough
(17,255 posts)Based on this statement of yours:
"We need someone who has the fortitude and gumption to break through that obstruction finally and stand up to it in a way that Obama was unwilling."
Hopefully not, but if Hillary found herself facing a Republican controlled Congress and Senate, how exactly would you expect her to "stand up to" the obstruction "in a way that Obama was unwilling"?
More executive orders? That option is not available in all situations, obviously.
Kaleva
(36,259 posts)and just vote down ticket. At least that's what I get from limited discussions with the locals. They think Trump is too far off the deep end to vote for but can't, at least at this point, bring themselves to vote for Hillary.
I have yet to see a Hillary sign but there are also very few Trump signs. Unlike past elections when there were many Romney and McCain signs out.
liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)Some simple minded idiot couldn't stand it being in my yard. They destroyed it and left the ripped up sign and tangled wire on the lawn.
MADem
(135,425 posts)preferably from more than one angle.
I think it's just not worth it--unless you put the sign inside your doorway or window!!!
liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)About 6:30 PM
They don't care if you see them do it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/ct-campaign-sign-theft-mchenry-met-20160309-story.html
And our side, unfortunately, is not without sin:
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/08/06/donald-trump-sign-vandalism-andover-susan-bryant/
wordpix
(18,652 posts)I ran for local office some years ago and we had a painting party to make some very big signs on plywood. The repugs tore down our signs on private property and left the plywood in ruins.
nolabels
(13,133 posts)Yes i am quite sure in some places they would rather take bag of shit over a bag of sugar just because the other kinfolk did. How can we expect to change mindsets like that.
I our daily group meeting before work, about twenty nine of the thirty people there went laughing at a quick trite joke about Trump. I think a lot of people are tuned in and i really can't believe they are all getting with their marching orders from the past typical sources
CBHagman
(16,982 posts)I only talked to a couple of people (Most weren't home or at least not answering their doors), and I came away convinced I had to do more.
liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)Zing Zing Zingbah
(6,496 posts)I did some canvassing a few weeks ago and there was strong support for Hillary, but I was only going to homes of registered Dems or Indies. We have a large Somali immigrant community in my city and pretty much every home I went to was of a Somali family. They are very eager to vote for Hillary because they find Trump offensive. I only talked to one white woman and she was also a strong Hillary supporter.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)The two major candidates really aren't that popular; Both are very flawed. This is truly a lesser of two evils election for many voters.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I find like half the people just let you talk so they can bust your chops. You're going to find a lot of impatient people and those who know it all- but actually I know little. It's never been a job for the feint hearted.
liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)Either they are not interested and tell such at which point you just move on or they share their opinion in an adult matter.
If they tell me they are Republican, I say no problem and tell them I will not bother them further.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)are very well spoken and polite had a horrible time phone banking for Obama whereas I had mostly lovely people (not counting those that hung up or rushed off the phone rudely). It makes a huge difference where you are canvassing too. A good portion of the general public do not all respond in "an adult manner" and I am sure you know that.
liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)wordpix
(18,652 posts)Someone in the household is a Dem but it sure isn't her.
liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)He did not know she voted Democratic. That was interesting, but he didn't get hostile.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)I just volunteered for 3 days at our Dem. booth at a big fair that draws people from 3 states, all blue (CT, MA and NY). Almost everyone who came by our booth wanted pins, signs, bumper stickers, anything Hillary. We had nothing but a couple signs from the convention that someone saved, and we needed those for the booth. So we had nothing to give out---zero. It was embarrassing that we had nothing, and it says to me that Hillary needs to care more about Dems in blue states. My district could go Trump, and I can't even put up a sign for Hillary b/c there are none.
The Dems who came by our booth were very concerned there are Trump signs everywhere in this Tri-state area and no Hillary signs. I learned that b/c mine is a blue state, we must buy our Hillary signs for $4 each online. No one in the campaign is bringing Hillary stuff to Dem Town Committees, even to sell things. I was told we could also maybe pick up signs in Hartford, but I am an hour away (one way).
One prominent Dem said she's expecting her 50-sign order in two weeks. Really? It shouldn't be this hard to get signs.
So if there are any Hillary people out there who can get signs n swag to us in the "safe" blue states pronto, please help. It looks bad that Hillary has no signs, nothing in my blue state at this point.
liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)Or less. It is about covering the swing states like Ohio. Don't win in Ohio, go home, it's that simple.
The campaign knows this and responds accordingly, resources are given to the swing states because that is where it is won. Living in a swing state is a two edged sword, while being exciting and getting all the help, we also get all the ugly, such as vandalism from the right and we are almost obligated to be politically active and put in a lot of time every 4 years.
You could always order signs and bumper stickers on line.
ladym55
(2,577 posts)I'll be out of state for about a month, but I know that October will be my time to help with GOTV. I'm also in NE Ohio and have been helping out since 2004.
herding cats
(19,558 posts)Second, I want to thank you once more for your work.
I've been scorned here before for saying this, but all politics "are local" and if you can keep active from the smallest seat on up, we will eventually see change. I do thank you for your effort! Please, never stop!
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)True Dough
(17,255 posts)I find it refreshing to encounter perspective that indicates not all is rosy.
I don't think Liberal N' Proud is a troll at all. Nor do I believe most, if not all, of the others posting here about similar experiences while canvassing are making up stories about the criticism they heard.
There is a danger of existing in an echo chamber. If we relied solely, or even primarily, on what we read regarding Clinton on the UG, we run the risk of assuming that only a minority of idiots could possibly vote for Trump over Hillary.
While panic isn't the remedy, making sure that Democrats don't coast into the election and that independents can be swayed to the liberal side of the ledger is still a necessity.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)I see Trump yard signs in front of nice houses, homes where everyone is obviously doing well. Why would these people be afraid? Why would they think America is going down the tubes? They do, and they think someone like Trump is the way to save ourselves from whatever it is they fear.