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Mon Jul 4, 2016, 08:20 AM

The Privilege of Never Having to Say You'll Concede

This needs to be said. This is not a parlor game or intellectual debate. "If Bernie Sanders is such a progressive revolutionary, why does he insist on undermining an eminently qualified presidential candidate who can beat a fascistic demagogue?" A demagogue who in no uncertain terms has made clear unmitigated ill will towards millions of people?

This is a question none has answered satisfactorily without ignoring the real risk of Donald Trump, his policies and his minions. The lives of minorities, women, immigrants, children and the disabled are constantly being threatened by an egomaniacal leader and his millions of hate filled, armed and dangerous followers. Those who continue to prevaricate are not courageous or progressive when those who have the most to lose are in danger.







Moving the Democratic platform to the left is a laudable goal, but it isn’t one that he alone has led. There have been many movements, including the movement to end the Hyde Amendment, the “Fight for 15,” and the #BlackLivesMatter movement, that have pushed the Democratic party to the left. But Bernie Sanders is presenting it as if he himself is the leader of this progressive revolution, as if he and his candidacy have been doing all of the work. This is privileged ignorance at best, and sinister appropriation at worst. Sanders has constructed himself as the progressive revolutionary savior that we have all been waiting for, a privileged and entitled point of view if there ever was one. He is unwilling to stop mansplaining to the country that he’s right because either he believes so deeply that he is right and we are wrong or does he sense that this is the one time that he will ever be this relevant to American politics and his male ego is unwilling to let this go?





The potential of a fascist America is more real than ever. That’s not hyperbole—it’s a fact. A candidate for president from one of the two major American political parties has called for: the closing of the border between Mexico and the United States and the mass deportation of immigrants; a closing of the border to Muslim immigrants; assassinating the family members of suspected terrorists (a blatant war crime, by the way); the criminalization of women who have abortions; and the list goes on. The “Bernie or Bust” argument seems innocuous if you aren’t one of the millions of marginalized people whose health, rights, and lives depend on the November election results. To stay in a race that you mathematically cannot win against the first woman presidential candidate of either major party is privileged enough. To do it when the country is facing a very possible descent into fascism? That’s just dangerous.

While Bernie Sanders claims that it is important to defeat Donald Trump, many of his supporters are not convinced. These people, many of whom are young white men who proudly label themselves the “real progressives,” are watching as the United States stares down the barrel of a fully loaded gun of racism, misogyny, and xenophobia and are shrugging. To even hint at voting for Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton, or claim that they are the same, is privilege personified.

These are the “Bernie Bros": white men who support Bernie Sanders but seemingly ignore the issues that affect marginalized people, who bellow and bully women and people of color for supporting Hillary Clinton, who claim ideological purity without having their rights and lives on the line.



http://www.damemagazine.com/2016/06/29/privilege-never-having-say-youll-concede

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Arrow 124 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Privilege of Never Having to Say You'll Concede (Original post)
Haveadream Jul 2016 OP
JaneyVee Jul 2016 #1
cosmicone Jul 2016 #2
Arkansas Granny Jul 2016 #5
cosmicone Jul 2016 #8
uponit7771 Jul 2016 #21
AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #66
bettyellen Jul 2016 #81
AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #90
Haveadream Jul 2016 #111
enid602 Jul 2016 #80
Surya Gayatri Jul 2016 #3
Mass Jul 2016 #4
Squinch Jul 2016 #7
Trenzalore Jul 2016 #17
rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #102
Andy823 Jul 2016 #30
Squinch Jul 2016 #35
Andy823 Jul 2016 #47
lapucelle Jul 2016 #9
comradebillyboy Jul 2016 #48
Haveadream Jul 2016 #10
Mass Jul 2016 #11
uponit7771 Jul 2016 #18
Haveadream Jul 2016 #19
Squinch Jul 2016 #6
lillypaddle Jul 2016 #12
sheshe2 Jul 2016 #13
Scurrilous Jul 2016 #14
DemonGoddess Jul 2016 #15
MaggieD Jul 2016 #16
justhanginon Jul 2016 #20
MohRokTah Jul 2016 #22
brer cat Jul 2016 #23
redwitch Jul 2016 #24
Haveadream Jul 2016 #25
redwitch Jul 2016 #26
lapucelle Jul 2016 #29
AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #59
seabeyond Jul 2016 #64
Ken Burch Jul 2016 #86
BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #105
seabeyond Jul 2016 #108
CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #27
athena Jul 2016 #28
Chathamization Jul 2016 #31
Haveadream Jul 2016 #34
Chathamization Jul 2016 #36
Haveadream Jul 2016 #43
Chathamization Jul 2016 #50
Haveadream Jul 2016 #57
Chathamization Jul 2016 #61
MelissaB Jul 2016 #32
Haveadream Jul 2016 #39
MelissaB Jul 2016 #44
seabeyond Jul 2016 #46
rateyes Jul 2016 #104
Exilednight Jul 2016 #107
missingthebigdog Jul 2016 #78
BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #106
Whimsey Jul 2016 #85
melman Jul 2016 #100
EffieBlack Jul 2016 #65
giftedgirl77 Jul 2016 #76
Hekate Jul 2016 #98
Starry Messenger Jul 2016 #117
treestar Jul 2016 #109
seabeyond Jul 2016 #33
comradebillyboy Jul 2016 #51
seabeyond Jul 2016 #60
NCTraveler Jul 2016 #68
jalan48 Jul 2016 #37
comradebillyboy Jul 2016 #53
PowerToThePeople Jul 2016 #38
Haveadream Jul 2016 #40
PowerToThePeople Jul 2016 #42
NastyRiffraff Jul 2016 #41
Haveadream Jul 2016 #49
comradebillyboy Jul 2016 #45
aikoaiko Jul 2016 #52
seabeyond Jul 2016 #62
aikoaiko Jul 2016 #73
Haveadream Jul 2016 #67
aikoaiko Jul 2016 #69
Haveadream Jul 2016 #70
John Poet Jul 2016 #54
seabeyond Jul 2016 #63
apcalc Jul 2016 #55
calimary Jul 2016 #56
AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #58
Vattel Jul 2016 #71
CobaltBlue Jul 2016 #88
eastwestdem Jul 2016 #72
Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #74
CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #75
Ken Burch Jul 2016 #87
CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #91
Ken Burch Jul 2016 #92
CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #94
CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #77
pandorah34 Jul 2016 #79
CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #93
pandorah34 Jul 2016 #115
CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #120
nolawarlock Jul 2016 #82
Cha Jul 2016 #83
Haveadream Jul 2016 #116
Cha Jul 2016 #119
Ken Burch Jul 2016 #84
AgadorSparticus Jul 2016 #89
ram2008 Jul 2016 #95
Haveadream Jul 2016 #112
ram2008 Jul 2016 #113
Haveadream Jul 2016 #118
ram2008 Jul 2016 #123
Ken Burch Jul 2016 #96
Post removed Jul 2016 #97
Hekate Jul 2016 #99
LuvLoogie Jul 2016 #101
whirlygigspin Jul 2016 #103
CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #110
Vinca Jul 2016 #114
FourScore Jul 2016 #122
melman Jul 2016 #124
Beacool Jul 2016 #121

Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 08:24 AM

1. K AND R!

 

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 08:29 AM

2. So very true

 

and the privilege of calling for unfairness or rigging of the system like a crybaby instead of biting the bullet and accepting that a majority of the electorate simply doesn't like you.

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Response to cosmicone (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 08:38 AM

5. I don't think it's a matter of dislike for Bernie. More voters preferred Hillary.

It's time to get together and move forward to defeat Trump and elect more Democrats to Congress.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #5)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 08:53 AM

8. 6 of one and half-a-dozen of the other

 

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #5)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:41 AM

21. True, that's why there are only 8% of Sanders holdouts right now vs 40% Clinton hold out in 08...

... cause for the dem side it wasn't that we didn't like the other candidate personally.

Don't know what influence Sanders thinks he has, few will answer what leverage he has outside of nuking everything and running with the greens.

No money for down ballot
Few followers left
No delegates that'll move to him

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #21)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 12:16 PM

66. Yeah, that must explain it!

 

Yeah, yeah! That's it! Tick tock!

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #66)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 10:22 PM

81. What exactly are you waiting for?

 

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #81)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 12:22 AM

90. I'm just watching the show

 

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #90)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 08:56 AM

111. This show?










?itok=MN2qTbW_





































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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #21)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 10:07 PM

80. hill

Thats why Hill enthusiadtically gave her TOTALsupport to BHO. She knew the stakes, and put party over vanity.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 08:34 AM

3. Massive K & R. Thanks for posting.

 

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 08:35 AM

4. Erasing. I have no time to lose with this non-sense.

Last edited Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:05 AM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Mass (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 08:51 AM

7. I disagree. I have seen many BS supporters threaten that they will be voting for Trump or not

voting at all. They were open about it here before the primary ended, and they continue to be open in other sites that don't require support of Democrats.

I agree that most BS supporters are sane and reasonable people. In fact, 82% of them are.

But the remainder is a sizeable number, and those 18% are willfully flirting with fascism while INSISTING that they are being virtuous, insisting that they are the ONLY ones being virtuous and that everyone else is either ignorant or evil.

They say this about people like me, who has long supported Hillary, and people like you who may have preferred BS but will vote for Hillary. They do not distinguish between us.

I think this article calls those people what they actually are. Enablers of fascism.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:33 AM

17. A kid I grew up with

Vocal Bernie or Buster. Kept typing enjoy President Trump over and over again when I celebrated Hillary's victory on my Facebook. I laughed and said, I have less to fear from Trump than he did because I don't have children. Fascinating that he doesn't think he would suffer from a President Trump and it will just be Hillary supporters.

Guy says he's supporting Johnson now. How you swing from socialist to libertarian boggles my mind. Needless to say, the person's political IQ isn't that high.

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Response to Trenzalore (Reply #17)


Response to Squinch (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 10:47 AM

30. Some of them

Still believe Bernie will win the nomination, and that what he is dong is pulling a fast on on the Clinton camp buying time to pull of whatever miracle he has up his sleeve to win. Those kind of supporters will never vote for Hillary, and once Bernie does endorse her, they will throw him under the bus. They are living in an fantasy world and refused to face reality.

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Response to Andy823 (Reply #30)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:06 AM

35. I really wonder if that is what is keeping him from endorsing her. They WILL throw him under the

bus the moment he does that. They already started when the story came out that he said he would vote for her, before he walked it back. They were livid.

They need to keep his secret service detail up for quite a while after if he ever does endorse. I don't like what he is doing right now, but I have some fear for the guy from his own most rabid followers.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #35)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:47 AM

47. Could be

I know that many think that if he does not win the nomination, because Hillary cheats some how of course, with their fantasy scenario, they say he will be going over to the Green party to run in August. That's plan B. If he does not do that, and he has said he would not, then you may have a point about some of his more rabid followers going off the deep end. Bernie should know by now just how insane some of those followers really are, and he may have come up with a plan to try and neutralize their hostilities when the end of his campaign comes.

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Response to Mass (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:03 AM

9. The problem is not with Sanders supporters.

The problem is with Sanders. He had a window of opportunity to work towards unity, and he chose not to.

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #9)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:48 AM

48. Bingo!

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Response to Mass (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:08 AM

10. It is never a waste of time to call out anyone who actively or passively supports Trump

Those who are not voicing their outrage and working to stop the real danger of Trump to millions of innocent people are either unaffected by it due to privilege, complicit or cowards. It isn't clear why anyone with progressive sensibilities would defend that or even feel an alliance with those who do. Where are the current rallies against Trump? Where are the marches? The only recent protests and demonstrations that are being mobilized by those on the left are against Hillary. Where are the protests and where is the outrage against Trump? The silence from the so-called far left progressives is deafening. This post is calling them out and they well need to be. Human and civil rights are at stake. The only group that is visibly and vocally challenging Trump right now is #BLM. We should never, ever be silent when the lives of the innocent are being threatened by a fascist and his hateful followers.

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Response to Haveadream (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:10 AM

11. And Alicia Garza, one of the founder of BLM, has clearly stated she will not vote Clinton (or Trump)

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Response to Mass (Reply #11)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:35 AM

18. Garza doesn't have the influence Sanders does and we both know that

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Response to Mass (Reply #11)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:38 AM

19. That is her right

and while I (and most others) strongly disagree with her strategy, at least her motives are specifically about protecting a minority community. Many of the so-called progressives who are complacent are not speaking to these issues at all and are in fact, minimizing their importance and the threat Trump poses to them.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 08:45 AM

6. Kick! Who can deny this?

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:10 AM

12. K&R nt

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:12 AM

13. K&R

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:28 AM

14. K & R

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:29 AM

15. K&R!

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:33 AM

16. Indeed

 

And yes, it reeks of privelege.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:40 AM

20. K & R in total agreement!

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:47 AM

22. K&R FOR TRUTH! eom

 

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 09:48 AM

23. K&R

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 10:02 AM

24. He is really driving some people crazy.

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Response to redwitch (Reply #24)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 10:33 AM

25. Many are disgusted and appalled by fauxgressives who sit idly by

while a fascist and his followers are actively threatening the lives of millions of minorities, women, immigrants and children.

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Response to Haveadream (Reply #25)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 10:35 AM

26. Bernie Sanders is not a faux anything. nt

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #29)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 12:09 PM

59. He is a small d Democrat

 

He is the savior of the Democratic party.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #59)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 12:15 PM

64. Sanders is a socialist. He calls himself a socialist. Sanders defines himself as a socialist.

 

He has been in the Independent party, because he does not agree with the Democratic party, as he has stated many times. He will run as an Independent, not a Democrat, in his next senate run.

These facts. Mere facts. Only facts. Sanders words.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #64)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 10:40 PM

86. You can be a socialist and a Democrat.

 

And it's not as though capitalism has ever been that great for women or POC.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #59)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 05:53 AM

105. This ...

He is the savior of the Democratic party.




Just saying something like that ignores every positive advancement the Dem party has ever made, both with and without Bernie's help.

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #105)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 06:38 AM

108. Condescending as hell. Especially as the man sat on the side lines for two and half decades while

 

Dems did the heavy lifting.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 10:39 AM

27. I think it's clear he sees himself as more important than the Democratic cause.

 

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 10:44 AM

28. K & R

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 10:50 AM

31. Many here have talked about how his supporters have gone to Clinton faster than Clinton supporters

went to Obama in '08. I believe more Sanders supporters are with Clinton now than Clinton supporters were with Obama on election day (at least, someone here was trumpeting that).

What he's doing is working, but unfortunately a lot of people are more interested in posturing than actual results.

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Response to Chathamization (Reply #31)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:04 AM

34. The current results are that Trump has a chance of winning

And there are many people who are not focused on stopping that. Anyone who ignores the threat Trump poses to minorities, women, children and immigrants cannot call themselves an active ally of those now at more risk than ever before.

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Response to Haveadream (Reply #34)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:09 AM

36. Anyone who dismisses an effective strategy because they feel personally offended by it probably

shouldn't be considered an ally, either. Again, the numbers are showing that Sanders strategy is working; his supporters are going to Clinton much faster than her supporters went to Obama in '08. It's hard to see how people who are actually interested in Democratic electoral victory could be complaining about this.

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Response to Chathamization (Reply #36)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:37 AM

43. Because victory is not assured so a more effective strategy is required.

Working as a united, coordinated force is always more effective than creating groups with disparate objectives. Most progressives believe there is too much at stake and are calling on those who are lingering to join the cause. Those who ignore Trump and treat him as an afterthought do so at the risk of innocent minority lives. That is not a gamble many progressives are willing to make.

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Response to Haveadream (Reply #43)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:50 AM

50. It's already a more effective strategy than the one tried in '08. And that was the strategy used as

the standard that Sanders would be measured by back in April/May. At that time, people were asking if he could bring his supporters over to Clinton as well as Clinton brought hers over to Obama. The answer is no - he's actually been able to bring them over even better than Clinton did.

But now the goal posts have moved again, and succeeding even more than anyone thought just a few months ago is being treated like a failure. Why? Because 538 is "only" giving Clinton a 78% chance of victory? What's the threshold of success for Sanders to bring his followers over to Clinton - failure if he does as well as Clinton did in '08, failure if he does much better - does he have to do twice as well as Clinton to be considered successful? Five times? I have the feeling that no matter what he does, people here will keep claiming that it just isn't enough. Because they're not actually interested in the results, they're interested in how the strategy makes them feel personally.

Again, Clinton didn't do nearly as well in '08 and her effort to bring her supporters over to Obama was considered a success.

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Response to Chathamization (Reply #50)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 12:00 PM

57. Comparisons to '08 do not address the danger posed by Trump

That makes arguments otherwise irrelevant when so many are at risk in a way they have never been before.

As was said in the OP:


"This is a question none can answer satisfactorily without ignoring the real risk of Donald Trump, his policies and his minions."

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Response to Haveadream (Reply #57)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 12:10 PM

61. And yet in April/May the question was whether Sanders would be able to do as well as Clinton '08

Then as soon as he's able to do better, the goal posts move and suddenly the comparison between the two is irrelevant? I tend to think the available facts are pretty relevant.

Not only that, but we have multiple posts and comments - some even in this thread - acting as if the number of Sanders supporters who have moved to Clinton is something to celebrate. If you've disagreed with any of these, feel free to share. Looking at this thread, it doesn't seem like any of those bothered you.

If you're simply one of the people who go:

"This is great news for Clinton!"
"So I guess Sanders strategy is working?"
"Oh, in that case it's terrible news for Clinton!"

then I'm not sure what your point is beyond concern trolling.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 10:55 AM

32. Keep pushing his supporters away.

That is exactly what posts like this do.

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #32)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:17 AM

39. Those who care about protecting those most at risk

from Trump and his dangerous followers will focus on doing everything they can to stop him from being elected. There should be no room for passivity and unwillingness to unite in protest against his fascism and threats against the innocent.

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Response to Haveadream (Reply #39)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:43 AM

44. There is NO excuse for the continued attacks on Bernie on this website.

None. Yes, that is what is happening.

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #44)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:47 AM

46. Melissa, there is no excuse Sanders refusal to endorse, hand Clinton her win, attack/insult Dems.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #46)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 05:03 AM

104. Yes there is, not an excuse, but a good reason.

As the OP and you acknowledge, Bernie has some considerable power. He is using that power to broker some needed change. I would venture to guess that were Hillary to come out tomorrow and not only say that she is against TPP, but call on Dem Senators to block its passage, and kept calling for it in her stump speech, and saw those Senators do that...and if she were to call for the reinstatement of Glass-Steagall, and eschew the money for her corporate donors...and pledge to break up the big-banks and strengthen anti-trust laws like a real progressive, he would concede and endorse. His cause is more important than he is. He has power, and he is using it and I am glad he is using it, even if he has to take it to Philly and beyond. He is not going to give away that power, regardless of how many in the establishment say he should.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #46)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 06:35 AM

107. I'm aDemocrat, and served in Bill's administration and now work

For the Clinton Global Initiative, and I supported Bernie in the primary, and I do not feel insulted by Bernie refusing to drop out.

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #44)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 04:10 PM

78. One of this website's purposes is to elect Democrats.

To the extent that Bernie's behavior is endangering that purpose, there is absolutely an excuse to attack him.

That said, I don't see too many attacks. I see a good deal of constructive criticism.

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Response to missingthebigdog (Reply #78)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 05:55 AM

106. +1! eom

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #44)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 10:36 PM

85. Well I see a lot of attacks by Bernie supporters

 

against Hillary which her supporters take with even temper. Say anything not positive about Bernie, and its considered an attack by his supporters. He is not a Democrat and he should be fair game on this website. And if you cannot support the Democratic party's nominee, why are you posting here?

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Response to Whimsey (Reply #85)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 03:11 AM

100. Even temper!

lolololol

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #32)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 12:15 PM

65. I am so over the "stop pushing Bernie's supporters away" whining as if you are all delicate flowers

who must be coddled and kissed and catered to.

If someone saying that Sanders should stop dawdling and endorse the presumptive nominee of the party he claims to be a part of wounds you so deeply that you won't vote for her, if only to ensure that she can beat the most dangerous candidate we've seen in decades, you don't need to be anywhere near a political discussion, much less a political movement.

There are plenty of potential voters among the Democratic base whom the Dems can focus on getting out to vote and who don't expect to have their their tears and asses kissed up and down Main Street from here to eternity. I'm focusing my attention on them and hope, if Bernie and his supporters continue on this path, the Party will do the same.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #65)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 03:47 PM

76. For realz...

 

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #65)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 02:49 AM

98. You said it

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #65)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 06:58 PM

117. +++

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #32)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 06:40 AM

109. Why would they allow that to happen to themselves

When Trump as POTUS is not in their best interests at all? They are adults right and can control their emotions in favor of rational decisions.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:03 AM

33. I no longer want Sanders endorsement. A couple weeks ago 81% already with Clinton. His endorsement

 

is tainted.

I hope he doesn't endorse.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #33)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:53 AM

51. You will probably get your wish. Bernie

sows discord everywhere he goes. He will never support Hillary.

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #51)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 12:10 PM

60. I truly hope. At best it would be luke warm, probably more insults. Why? No thank you. Nt

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #33)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 12:43 PM

68. I think you see a little better why I was so patient over the last two months.

 

It's not that I saw anything clearly, it's simply that I saw his clout was at it's height and diminishing rapidly. I didn't think he was the big game changer I was being sold. In fact, I found him to be somewhat insignificant in the process.

EW over the last couple of weeks has done more than Sanders ever could. He just doesn't possess her sustainable clout. It's the difference between a politician with good-will and an angry activist. The two are no where near alike and that has really been proven here. Sanders not even being at the convention would only be covered as a blip on the radar. I would suggest he would get more coverage if he joined the protesters at the campground.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:15 AM

37. So Hillary isn't strong enough to beat Trump w/o Bernie conceding right now?

This isn't a good sign.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #37)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:57 AM

53. No Hillary is doing just fine against Trump

without any help from Sanders. But it would be nice to see Sanders support the Democratic nominee for a change of pace. Only Sanders can choose whether he wants to be an asset or an obstacle in the fight against Trump. So far he has not been an asset.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:17 AM

38. The privilege of being a US citizen with constitutional rights.

 

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #38)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:21 AM

40. Many people in the US do not enjoy constitutional or equal rights or protection under the law

And Trump and his supporters are actively committed to making that inequity worse.

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Response to Haveadream (Reply #40)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:24 AM

42. I agree with you.

 

But, those things in no way should negate Sanders' legal rights to voice his concerns and run his campaign in a manner which adheres to the law.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:23 AM

41. Another big K&R!

If it's so important to beat Donald Trump, according to Bernie, why isn't he doing it? Supporting the presumptive Democratic nominee would be a major indication that he's serious.

We underestimate Donald Trump and the stupidity of some American voters at our peril. This is as serious as it can be; our very lives are at stake, and that's NOT hyperbole.

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Response to NastyRiffraff (Reply #41)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:50 AM

49. ^ THIS!^

Thank you!

It is past time. Progressives need to get on the right side of this issue. A 103 year old woman, who lived through WWI, the Depression, Hitler and WWII, the Cold War, VietNam, Nixon, Raygun and the Bushes, said Trump is the WORST, most dangerous candidate of her lifetime. Many agree with her. She said she just wants to live long enough to stop him and that electing Hillary is the only way to do that. She says she has never seen so many people in this country act the way so many of his supporters are. Simple, obvious wisdom from one who has seen it all and recognizes danger when she sees it.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:45 AM

45. Thank you for saying what needed to be said.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:56 AM

52. He's not undermining HRC. Bernie's is fortifying the party.


And as a result more people who aren't in love with HRC will vote for the Democratic nominee because of the party platform.

You don' t to have to like, but the more Bernie works on the Democratic party, the more votes HRC will get.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #52)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 12:11 PM

62. He is no longer capable of undermining, hence not needing his endorsement. That has been the shift,

 

and why it is truly over.

The vast majority of Sanders supporters, support Clinton.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #62)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 03:22 PM

73. Yes, Sanders supporters do support the party's nominee -- but that may be due, in part,


to Bernie demonstrating that the party platform (what it stands for) is worth fighting over.

A lot of HRC supporters want Bernie to be a good little sheepdog and push liberal and lefties into the party, but what he is doing is creating a more attractive party or at least showing that liberal like him should try to press their issues within the party.

And I'm sure there are those Bernie supporters who truly are HRC supporters, too, and would support her just as much whether Bernie conceded/endorses 1 month ago or 2 months ago.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #52)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 12:21 PM

67. Bernie's goal of fighting for economic progress is not the issue.

His refusal to unite with the Democrats and our candidate against Trump while doing so is. He is continuing what is an unnecessarily adversarial relationship with the Dems and promoting the idea that our economic policies hurt the average voter. That absolutely is undermining HRC and the party and by extension, bolstering Trump. Bernie can vigorously campaign for our candidate while promoting economic progress the way Elizabeth Warren is doing. That approach would be a win/win for him and our chances of beating Trump. It is troubling that, even with what might be good intentions, there is a willingness to risk the lives of those who stand to suffer the most to promote ideas that look no better for being framed as contrary to Democratic goals. Prioritizing that approach over the potential irrevocable cost of innocent lives is tempting fate unnecessarily.

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Response to Haveadream (Reply #67)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 01:57 PM

69. I disagree. In organizational life a little organizational conflict is a good thing.


Bernie's language has been measured and policy-focused.

I trust that we will resolve our differences by the end of the convention.

There is no reason to be afraid of vigorous debate within the party as move toward the convention.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #69)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 02:31 PM

70. Ignoring the possibility of electing a fascist as leader of the free world

to indulge in "a little organizational conflict" is not fear of the debate but of the potential outcome of spending valuable political capital on an intraparty squabble where the candidates largely agree. An excellent way for the conversation to be 'measured and policy focused' would be to take the "will not endorse/still in the race" narrative off the bargaining table. It is precisely because those issues are central to his position that a challenge to HRC's candidacy remains in play and the party continues to be divided for reasons that have nothing to do with furthering policy and everything to do with his viability as a candidate/challenger.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:58 AM

54. Please continue the beatings until morale improves!

 

Posts like this PROVE that some Hillary supporters care more about shoving Bernie supporters noses into the shit, than they care about uniting the party and winning the election!

The "concern" is a convenient cover for trolling Bernie supporters.

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Response to John Poet (Reply #54)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 12:14 PM

63. No. We refuse to continually be insulted. All of us. All Dems that did not support Sanders.

 

That is not acceptable. Why would you ask us to accept that? We won't.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:59 AM

55. What effin ever.

Sander's can do what he wants. I just don't care. My goal is stopping Trump.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 11:59 AM

56. Yet ANOTHER big K&R!

Seems to me it's turning into textbook poor sportsmanship at this point.

Bernie doesn't seem to realize how unfair he's being to his own legacy. He's squandering whatever legacy he worked to build, over several decades. Kinda like Ralph Nader did.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Mon Jul 4, 2016, 12:02 PM

58. Moving the party to the left does not 'undermine' her

 

It bolsters her.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 02:35 PM

71. Lauren Rankin

 

is an idiot

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Response to Vattel (Reply #71)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:10 PM

88. Vattel—Lauren Rankin is a fool!

 

What she wrote—including her attacks against whites (who voted in the Democratic primaries)—tells me she is a fool.

If you actually want your preferred political party to win a general election, you do not reach out to malign a group whose overall numbers tends to nationally carry for the opposition party.

Notice that Lauren Rankin said nothing of primaries voters between the ages of 17–29 (in the general, they would be 18–29) who voted approximately 70 percent for Bernie Sanders. (They were over 80 percent in early primaries states Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, and Top 10 populous states Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania—and likely others not exit-polled which Bernie Sanders carried with, perhaps, at least 55 percent.)

I am not generally aware of Lauren Rankin. I looked her up via a search engine. What I saw is someone who is white. And whites—and they were not 100 percent white males—went for Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton.

Lauren Rankin is greatly encouraging to the Bernie Sanders primaries voters who will not vote in the general election for Hillary Clinton. Rankin helps to strengthen their resolve.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 02:40 PM

72. So agree, but as someone who was always suspicious of Sanders motives, I like that he has stayed

 

in the race, the best possible way to uncover the truth about him for all to see. If Sanders would have conceded back when a reasonable politician would have done so, he would have ridden off into the sunset as a progressive hero. Now only time will tell...

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 03:34 PM

74. Bernie Sanders has said that he can't snap his fingers and

...get people to vote for Clinton. He needs to get public policies his supporters want to present to them.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 03:44 PM

75. I guess some have a higer priorities than ensuring a Democrat occupies the White House...

...for the next 4 years and every thing that goes with that.

What is that priority? The REVOLUTION must continue!!!!

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #75)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 10:42 PM

87. It's enough for now that he says he'll vote for her.

 

Last edited Wed Jul 6, 2016, 12:40 AM - Edit history (1)

It wouldn't make any difference if he suspended his campaign before the convention. Nothing would be changed.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #87)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 12:38 AM

91. It's too late for him to endorse Hillary now or after the convention

Last edited Wed Jul 6, 2016, 08:23 AM - Edit history (1)

It was a missed opportunity to display party unity. Polls show that a very large majority of Sanders supporters, including almost all of the young people, have already made the switch to Clinton. Some of the rest will sooner or later make the switch, especially if they live in swing states, and others won't vote are will vote third party. However, I really don't believe that anything that Sanders does going forward short of running as an independent or a third party candidate is going to affect the decisions of those remaining on the sidelines.

Clearly his reason for not endorsing is that he is much more focused on continuing the revolution he believes he has started rather than insuring that Democrats win the White House.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #91)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 12:42 AM

92. Don't even imply Bernie would go third-party.

 

We all know he is telling the the truth when he promises not to do that.

And it's not as though he has to choose between continuing the revolution and electing Democrats.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #92)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 12:47 AM

94. I meant to imply nothing of the sort

I was simply saying it would take something of that magnitude to make any difference of how his followers have not already switched to Clinton might vote. Sanders has said time and again that he will not enter the race as an independent or a 3rd party candidate and I take him at his word.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 03:52 PM

77. K&R - Very well said!

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 04:34 PM

79. I'm convinced

You folks are determined to push Bernie's supporters away from voting for Hillary.

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Response to pandorah34 (Reply #79)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 12:43 AM

93. The total numbers of DU users is much to small to affect the election

We think what we post here is somehow important, but in the final analysis it is much to do about nothing.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #93)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 11:25 AM

115. And the lurkers?

How many folks do you imagine read these boards daily? How many of these folks do you think pass along all the derogatory junk that is said on these boards about Bernie and his supporters. Too many folks here push possible Hillary supporters away with their rhetoric and that is a fact.

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Response to pandorah34 (Reply #115)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 11:33 PM

120. How many Sanders supporters do you figure are on DU

Let's be charitable and say there were 3,000 Bernie supporters accessing DU.

Subtract from that number that those are now supporting Hillary.

Also subtract from who still dislike Hillary but will ultimatly hold their nose and vote for her in the end regardless of what is said.l

Also subtract from that number the ones who were never going to vote for Hillary regardless of what is said.

What you have left is a small number of DU users who might have voted for Hillary but are turned off by Hillary supporters and will ultimately not vote or will vote third part out of spite. Now understand that they are scattered over 50 states and some foreign countries.

Conclusion, the probability that those remaining people will showroom affect the results of the election are infinitesimally small, no small it can be considered for all practical purposes not existent.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 10:24 PM

82. Spot on

I've seen so many Bernie supporters on this site say they would never vote for Trump and I took them at their word. Now, I see a number of those same people over at that Jack Free Radicals site (which is, incredulously, allowed to be posted here constantly even though it borders on the violent) talking about they're going to vote for Trump as the "lesser of two evils." One person, who is also here, said she would crawl through glass to vote for Trump if Hillary is the nominee. Yet, they come over here and lie about it or, even if they themselves would never vote for Trump, act like nobody else on the left is saying they will.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 10:26 PM

83. Mahalo for this, Haveadream!

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Response to Cha (Reply #83)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 06:49 PM

116. Mahalo, Cha!






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Response to Haveadream (Reply #116)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 07:07 PM

119. :)

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 10:34 PM

84. It doesn't undermine HRC for Bernie to keep his promise to carry on until the convention

 

It's enough for now that he has pledged to vote for her.

We all know she is going to be nominated.



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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:49 PM

89. +1,000!!! You sure hit the nail on the head!

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 12:54 AM

95. Sanders can do as he pleases, it won't effect the outcome of the election

The entire article is unnecessary whiny hyperbole.

Sanders is still in the race to shape the Democratic party platform.

He will give his support to Hillary after the platform is shaped right before the convention (after the VP pick) or right after. Benefits being, we get a more progressive party and Hillarys feet are held to the fire.

Everyone holds hands after convention with a new progressive party platform.

Hillary goes on to win the general election against Trump.

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Response to ram2008 (Reply #95)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 09:29 AM

112. Dismissing minority and at-risk people's concerns as "unnecessary whiny hyperbole"

and continuing to ignore their issues and Trump's threats to make them worse is part the reason Sanders lost the votes of those demographics in a landslide.

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Response to Haveadream (Reply #112)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 11:13 AM

113. I'm a minority

... And this is whiny non sense.

This author doesn't speak for all minorities.

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Response to ram2008 (Reply #113)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 07:06 PM

118. The vast majority disagree

as demonstrated by the votes. Many people have made the same points repeatedly. If for no other reason than political expediency and garnering the support of additional demographics and voters, it would be wise for the issues of minorities, women, immigrants and especially, the threat Trump poses, to be more of a priority.

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Response to Haveadream (Reply #118)

Thu Jul 7, 2016, 01:26 AM

123. Those issues are a priority

Which is why Bernie fighting to get $15 dollar minimum wage and free public college into the Democratic platform (issues that disproportionately effect minorities) is a positive thing. Had he dropped out and gave up his leverage, those may not have been included in the platform.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 01:48 AM

96. It's enough that he'll concede at Philly.

 

And he'd be doing the exact same things if the apparent nominee was a man.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)


Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 02:57 AM

99. KnR

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 03:22 AM

101. K&R!

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 04:25 AM

103. wa wa wa

like a broken record around here

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Response to whirlygigspin (Reply #103)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 08:26 AM

110. Now it is time for you to say something as intellegent....

....as this well thought out post. Are you capable of that?

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 11:21 AM

114. DU needs a separate forum dedicated to Bernie Sanders hate.

This forum should only be about Clinton and Trump.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #114)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 11:46 PM

122. agree. n/t

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Response to Vinca (Reply #114)

Thu Jul 7, 2016, 01:48 AM

124. It's completely over the top

So much worse than before the civility was supposedly restored.

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Response to Haveadream (Original post)

Wed Jul 6, 2016, 11:38 PM

121. I can just imagine the outrage if Hillary had behaved like this in 2008.

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