2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHas hillary earned bernie sanders endorsement?
Given that her surrogates and followers have so much hatred for what he represents why should he give what hasnt been earned?
niyad
(112,065 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)When posts like this thread will be so over.
On to the general.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)represents politically. You should not somehow imagine that irritated blowback against the bad behavior of some of his followers is somehow a rejection of his policies. It's a rejection of their behavior.
I, for instance, really don't like bernistas saying his opponent makes them feel ill, or is a war criminal, is bought and paid for by Wall Street, belongs in jail, etc. ad nauseum. This disgraceful behavior has absolutely nothing to do with what Bernie "represents" and everything to do with their behavior. Which they own, and no one else.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Go read the HRC group. Not only will you see that the hatred is real and firmly directed at Bernie and his political ideas, but also that that Hillary supporters aren't exactly entitled to talk about the behavior of others.
Sorry to say, but your high horse is a falabella.
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,131 posts)There's enough crap on this forum to cause major aggravation for both Sanders and Clinton supporters.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)If you have to go to the HC support group for your evidence, she's made her point.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"but also that that Hillary supporters aren't exactly entitled to talk about the behavior of others..."
The corollary being just as valid, regardless of the horse you rode in on. However, I think we may safely presume you'll rationalize the same behavior as righteous-- bias can do that.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Sounds like it's time for
Squinch
(50,672 posts)msongs
(67,129 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)She desperately needs his endorsement.
WhiteTara
(29,670 posts)she is not complete without it.
lapucelle
(18,017 posts)Sanders overplayed his hand. It's clear that he won't endorse, and Democrats have moved on. Sanders's supporters can decide for themselves which side of history they want to be on.
The vaunted Sanders "let's primary them!" threat has pretty much evaporated after the results of the Nevada contests on June 14. Not a single Sanders's endorsed challenger won. The most embarrassing loss was by 60%. So much for the movement. So much for the threat.
At this point, Sanders's petty demands have nothing to do with advancing a progressive agenda. It's all about personal revenge against individual Democrats and getting back at an organization that he has been exploiting for over a year for not handing him a nomination that he didn't win, but feels entitled to.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)helping people.
BTW - he blames the DNC yet he still got a lot of attention and support. How far would he have gotten in the GOP.
redstatebluegirl
(12,264 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Imagine a forum full of paid deceivers, suddenly left alone, without any one to deceive, and after the money stops ...
Ditto ....
Andy823
(11,495 posts)That JPR site where you can't say Bernie lost, unless you say Hillary cheated and stole the election from him, because if you do say that he lost, without saying she cheated him, you can be banned.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)There are many things Hillary will have to do to get Bernie and his voters to be comfortable with her. I don't know if she can do it.
What this shows is how weak she is as a candidate, that it all now hinges on what Bernie does.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)After the pathetically low viewership of his speech this week Bernie's leverage is disappearing as we speak. After the millions that attended his rallies you would've thought a few more could have at least turned on their computers. His support is very soft
charlyvi
(6,537 posts)They always forget that.......if he lost to a "weak" candidate by every measure, that kink of makes him weaker!
demosincebirth
(12,517 posts)I didn't do good in math...you must have done worse.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Last edited Mon Jun 20, 2016, 01:46 AM - Edit history (1)
If she has won, just go on. Instead what I see is Hillary fans saying that if she loses the GE then it's Bernie's fault.
On one thread I am reading excuses for Hillary making Bush look good, and on another excuses for Hillary attacking Bernie's supporters.
Bizarro world. I hope Skinner puts and end to it soon. If he doesn't DU is destroyed and party unity is likewise damaged.
demosincebirth
(12,517 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Evidence of that weakness is her supporters stating that if Bernie supporters don't get behind her she will lose the GE.
Were she a strong candidate and her supporters felt that to be true, they would move on and quit harping on Bernie.
Their continued obsession with Bernie and his challenge, tells me that they are very afraid of how weak she is even in their eyes.
demosincebirth
(12,517 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Not hatred, just do not like her politics. And the fact that we all see her as a weak candidate scares me. All that, coupled with your take that we are a fringe group and your hatred of us makes for a deeply divided Dem party which only further weakens HRC chances.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)The only reason I am looking for that endorsement is not to push Bernie supporters into voting for Hillary. I think most will automatically do so when the GE gets going. I think those that won't are the minority anyways.
This is about decorum. It is bad form for a democratic opponent to not be honest and concede his campaign when it is clearly over. It is about bowing out graciously and not being a sore loser. You thank your opponent for a good game. It is just good sportsmanship. And he is lacking this.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)I want him in there fighting to get the best party and platform we can get. The rules state this is allowed. The poor sports who think Bernie should all of a sudden play by their new rules is what is destroying party unity. Take a bow.
Again, what I see from posts like yours is just plain childish behavior that proves how weak HRC is, in that the continued attacks on Bernie show your fear of HRC being not catered too.
She is not the queen, so quit acting like she is.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)I never went personal but you are quick to call me names. I pointed out the truth and maybe that hurts but that's life. Bernie lost. He is not the first person to lose a damn primary so quit acting like it is an affront to the entire democratic process---esp when more people voted for Hillary. So while I am glad he speaks for you, he doesn't speak for a while lot more people.
I think you care more about part unity than I do. And i don't think the fear here has anything to do with Hillary but perhaps has everything to do with you supporting a candidate that is making himself more irrelevant by the day by his bad sportsmanship.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)And I am telling you that has nothing to do with any of this.
Calling him poor sport is childish and is in actuality a projection of the childishness.
Get this straight: What Bernie is doing is part of the so called game. He is doing what can be expected and is accepted by the adults.
Just because he doesn't bow to the queen is no reason for yall to get your knickers in a twist. But the fact knickers are in a twist shows fear and weakness.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)There is no more game to be played. It has ALREADY BEEN played.
You have quite the authoritative complex calling me childish and you being the so called adult while you are name calling. How rich. I am surprised you are more upset that I called him on his sportsmanship behavior than him being irrelevant.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Bernie can influence a lot that happens between now and the convention. To claim he can't is dumb. Not saying you are dumb, just the idea that the game is over is dumb.
Bernie has lots of power, backed by over 12 million active Democratic Party voters. Denial of that is dumb.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)No one is denying he has 12 million voters. But I think it is reasonable to expect a great deal of those voters to automatically pivot to the GE. In light of who we have waiting for us, I think that is a safe assumption.
Trump, in his own sick way, is helping Hillary along nicely.
Miles Archer
(18,837 posts)Amaril
(1,267 posts)Nasty unnecessary comment.
Tarc
(10,471 posts)in support of a common goal/opponent. I'm willing...barely...to let Sanders play this out til the convention if he endorses her formally AT the convention.
The Machiavellian part of me thinks there's slight chance that all of this has been secretly handshaked to anyways, to get more exposure and coverage by the breathless media going in to the convention. If he had conceded already, there'd be less drama in July for the talking heads to squeak about.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)She won based on her priorities and action plans. If you disagree with them, vote for someone else.
Regarding hatred: I have no hatred for Sanders. I think he is a selfish life-long politician who loves the adoring fans and cannot give them up. Hillary and Sanders have nearly the same ideas to make the country better. Clinton just has obviously thought about how to turn those ideals into action.
The winner is not usually black-mailed by the loser. Of course, the winner is not usually a woman.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)And we the people have been getting screwed forever.
That says a lot.
If Hillary can't win without Bernie endorsing her, she can't win. She should either quit, or do what Bernie tells her she needs to do.
Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)Forever. The only job he has ever held was as a politician.
Clinton conversely has worked her whole life to make the world a better place.
Sanders has done nothing to make the world a better place. He has taken his establishment pay check and benefits and hollered. Hollering is not a plan of action.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)How can one be so blind?
He voted against invading Iraq. That's something that your candidate voted for, so don't hand me that happy-horseshit. You have just proven yourself to be not worthy of respect.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)And..he also voted for regime change. So much for standing up for principles--but he is sure good at talking about them.
And the excuse that he had to vote for funding the war to help the troops is a big fat lie. The power of Congress includes holding the purse strings. No funding for the war = no war. He could have made his stance. He could have been the person he touts himself to be.
It is all a bunch of baloney.
swhisper1
(851 posts)he is not for regime change
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Bernie voted for regime change
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)RazBerryBeret
(3,075 posts)your team has demonized a man who has spent his entire life fighting for the common man.
I am not even saying anything negative about your candidate; not sure why you choose to smear a man who is intelligent, hard working, honest and ethical-- but I can guess.
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)turned her back on people. Even the Foundation is a tool she uses constantly
Hekate
(89,977 posts)Yeah, sure.
WhiteTara
(29,670 posts)that is the definition of establishment. He may have called himself and independent, but he has been dependent on the government (taxpayers, or other people's money) his entire working life.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)I think you're confused here some.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Establishment
The establishment is the DNC and the party itself. Sorry but Bernie is an indy and though he may caucus with the Dems, he also holds his own viewpoints. What is it you guys were jawing about recently? How he criticized Obama? Establishment politicians like Hillary don't do that.
WhiteTara
(29,670 posts)100 people in the Senate. That's pretty damn elite to me. And if by that post you mean to imply that Clinton is establishment, please note, she was either elected or chosen on merit.
Besides he lost, so he needs to get back to his day job, in the elite Senate.
swhisper1
(851 posts)and the one successful election was in a blue state with no competition. Her failures are up there with W's.
Hekate
(89,977 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)There's been a lot of those the past few weeks.
Response to WhiteTara (Reply #48)
Post removed
RazBerryBeret
(3,075 posts)that is a perfect path to Party Unity.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...in a democracy
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)endorsing her should be a matter of easy decision-making. He'll come around, though, in time.
swhisper1
(851 posts)Done settling, sick of decay and lying, and Sanders is not going to "come around". He has never settled. Why would he now?
She and Romney are two of the same flock, anti people
If it is Trump, she gets a landslide
Our only insurance is the congress, start working for your downticket
Pastiche423
(15,406 posts)Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)I do not believe she can. He may very well endorse her and we can argue over earned vs. deserved but regardless I think people are going to vote their conscience.
wildeyed
(11,240 posts)I would have expected her to endorse Sanders if he won too.
Ino
(3,366 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)she will try to seduce, but we are the awake factor and she has 4 yrs to earn our vote. Right now, no, she has not earned anything but disrespect. I dont hate her. Hate is self-defeating, but I lost respect and trust years ago and she wont win me back
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Oh ... and btw .... the body of your OP is a lie.
And the hate being displayed here is coming from you.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)I do believe he took a cowards route to running for president. His lack of conviction to run as an independent, or better yet a socialist, shows he was only in it to disrupt or to glean the benefits of the DNC that he despises so much. Either way it shows a lack of character.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)FarPoint
(12,179 posts)He has to rise to the occasion. Enough of this codependent thinking where " she" must bend the knee to Bernie... it's never going to happen.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)Honestly, I've been voting democrat my whole life and I always feel unfulfilled. It's a lot like how it was being a Red Sox fan before 2004. They did great right up to the end and then let you down in a spectacular way. I think that if more and more of us vote our consciences, the greater the chance will be that we can get a people's movement going. Bernie started that movement, but if he is out I feel it would be best for me to vote Green Party. That's where my heart and mind are as they stand for the same values and issues as me. Even if I lived in a swing state I would vote this way. The system is so grossly overrun by dirty money and pay to play politics funding the same people that pollute the earth, exploit impoverished countries with slave wages and wage wars for oil and profits. I don't want to contribute to that cycle anymore. Go ahead and say I'm voting for Trump.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Will go the Nader route this time. Hope you find a good place to vent all the anger and negativity that Bernie stirred up.
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)You crossed a line Ned. I'd report it, but we all know they would vote to leave it alone.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)jamese777
(546 posts)At this point Sanders and his remaining hard core supporters should just vote for the Green Party candidate, Jill Stein.
I, for one, could care less whether Hillary Clinton gets endorsed or whether they vote for her.
Major Nikon
(36,814 posts)On Sun Jun 19, 2016, 12:35 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Who cares?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2204637
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Encouraging Sanders supporters to vote for Jill Stein is a violation of DU's Terms of Service. Hide this 3rd party support.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jun 19, 2016, 12:37 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
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Explanation: A very stupid statement....but once again, the writer is entitled to an opinion. Only 12 hours to go folks. Yeah!
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't really think poster is serious, he's just tired of messing with Berners willing to help GOPers.
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Miles Archer
(18,837 posts)They have two completely different platforms.
So I support Sanders doing what he's doing, which is to pledge to defeat Trump while refraining from an "endorsement."
A vote is not a vote of confidence, it's just a vote.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)By one who stands for so little against those who have so much
jamese777
(546 posts)Top Aide: Sanders Could Endorse Clinton Before Convention
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/283976-sanders-could-endorse-clinton-before-convention-report
I could see makng the case for no endorsement. But the final totals weren't close:
Hillary Clinton: 16,663,802 (55.5%)
Bernie Sanders: 12,872,148 (42.9%)
Clinton over Sanders by 3,791,654 votes.
Hillary Clinton: 2,218 pledged delegates
Bernie Sanders: 1,833 pledged delegates
Hillary Clinton: 555 Unpledged delegates who say they will vote for her.
Bernie Sanders: 47 Unpledged delegates who say they will vote for him.
Hillary Clinton: 2,773 total delegates
Bernie Sanders: 1,880 total delegates
Clinton: 34 primaries & caucuses won
Sanders: 23 primaries & caucuses won
Clinton has 390 more delegates than needed.
Sanders still needs 503 delegates.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016
Autumn
(44,686 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)It's that simple.
riversedge
(69,537 posts)Interesting contrast.
Marv ?@Marv_Vien 2h2 hours ago
While Bernie fans practiced protests for the DNC, millennials for Hillary registered folks to vote in key states.
w4rma
(31,700 posts)people away and disenfranchising voters.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Nor my vote.
book_worm
(15,951 posts)but I expect Bernie will endorse.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)She won despite that 20% of men that feel irrational hatred and she will win again.
demosincebirth
(12,517 posts)Sooo, keep at it.
eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)In the general election, there are very few additional voters who would 'join the Sanders train', but potentially many more who might swing towards Hillary.
lapucelle
(18,017 posts)When Hillary's VP list was leaked on Wednesday, and the campaign made it clear that Sanders hasn't made the cut, the writing was on the wall. They're done with him. They will not allow him to hold the process hostage to his ridiculous, and increasingly personal demands.
Sanders been in a bubble so long that he imagines that he yields great power and influence, but his moment has come and gone.
As for "earning" support...who on earth makes up the apocryphal army of the self-important who have to be seduced and cajoled into doing the right thing? Grow up.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)and utter arrogance that turns people away. And his sky-high goals don't have workable plans to make them possible.
Bernie lost, and is a sore loser - setting a poor example for his mostly young audience.
Real Democrats will vote for the nominee. She'll get along just fine without Bernie and his lack of integrity.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)tuned in for his speech.
She will win because millions upon millions of women, Blacks, Latinos, other PoC, LBGT, the anybody but trump crowd, and many more will vote for her.
The BOBs can stay home
peacebird
(14,195 posts)NNadir
(33,365 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)NNadir
(33,365 posts)...against Trump. Many of us care more about the world than our parochial opinions; and we recognize that this horrible man and his position as the nominee of a horrible but still poisonous Republican party is directly impacting our country's reputation as a civilized nation.
If you don't get it, well, I can't help you.
All BS stuff is irrelevant, and I'll be using my ignore key for what may be the last time. Tomorrow's the 20th and almost all of us are waiting for it.
Have a nice evening and a nice life.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)I believe he was supposed to take out Jeb, but never in their wildest dreams did they think it would be Hillary v Donald. The perfect match up really. Both have exceptionally high unfavorables, so you would THINK it would be a walk in the park for Hillary to beat him.
We shall see. Regardless of the media trying to sell fear, I see a lot of very enthusiastic Trrump supporter out there who despise Hillary more than fear Trump.
We do live in interesting times.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)I have no problem with Hillary moving to the middle to get the votes needed to win. If Bernie and his supporters are adamant about staying home, the entire party will have to swing to where the votes are. And it will. This election is just as winnable with millions of more Moderates as it is with a couple of million more unreliable fringe voters.
MFM008
(19,764 posts)There's always tomorrow..............
Hekate
(89,977 posts)....as one of Hillary's oldest and closest advisors means the Radical Islamic conspiracy goes right to the top.
Anybody who at this point in time does not see the clear and present danger to our democracy presented by TRUMP is not just a fool but a hopeless idiot I have no use for.
JURY: This comment is not directed at any one particular person. Thank you.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)pnwmom
(108,915 posts)That's what Democrats do, and he did run as a Democrat.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)My question to you is how do you expect him to implement his ideas? Who is going to help him if he should be POTUS tomorrow? Does he have any allies in Washington?
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... if Bernie endorses HRC or not.
He has shown himself to be a small, petty man who doesn't have the decency to even acknowledge that SHE won and he LOST.
Bernie's lack of character will be remembered - and that memory will outlive anything he has ever said or done.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
watch the language
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jun 20, 2016, 07:39 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
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Explanation: This is so atrocious, that it should be put out in front of everyone. This shows what poor sportsmanship is about.
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Explanation: The language is foul but have seen worse. The insult is childish.
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Explanation: As a Bernie Sanders supporter, I may not agree with this assessment, but it's a strongly held opinion about his current actions. It's not a baseless charge.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Night Watchman
(743 posts)He lost! She doesn't have to "earn" jack fucking squat from him!
Response to SwampG8r (Original post)
Post removed
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Blue isnt my color anymore im more.of a.green now.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)or any position in Her Cabinet?