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arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 03:17 PM Jun 2016

Clinton, Obama, Sanders all scorch Trumps bigoted ass.

Way to go Team Dems. Our party and our candidate is what stands between this country and fucking Mussolini, or at best Berlusconi. The Left and the Center Left are about to kick the Far Right's ass. The Center Right no longer exists.

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arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
2. arguably. then Obama would be dead center. To me she is more dead center and he is center left.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 03:33 PM
Jun 2016

but I wouldn't argue that strongly with your assessment.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
3. I agree, Obama is center-left to (arguably) center
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 03:39 PM
Jun 2016

The reasons for being center have to do with drones, Afghanistan, etc.

I think the areas where his foreign policy have been centrist (and a failure) have been areas where Clinton pushed him to the right, while his overall ideology has been more center-left.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
4. sadly the move to drones (and away from large land invasions) was a move to the left.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 03:44 PM
Jun 2016

that is how far out there Bush/Cheney took us.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
5. Agreed, but I try to think of the continuum as fixed with individual players operating on the line
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 03:51 PM
Jun 2016

That is, Bush being hard-right doesn't shift the so-called Overton window to the right. Left-Right still exists as a theoretical concept, even if no politician wants to represent a true leftist foreign policy. Specifically, Bush being far-right doesn't mean a centrist Obama is actually Left.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
6. ok, droning people instead of killing many more in a large Asian land invasion is not "Left"
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 03:57 PM
Jun 2016

but it is leftward from where we were. Yes Obama is center left or just center even if far to the left of Cheney. now the American continuum has always (post WW2) been fixed rightward of the European one, despite the fact places like France have had their Trumps for decades. Bernie, despite self identifying as a Democratic Socialist would really be a Social Democrat in Europe, based on his presidential platform.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
9. Yes, Sanders has always (well, maybe not as a rebellious Mayor) been center-left to left. Cheers.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 04:44 PM
Jun 2016

Certainly not far-left as some claim.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
12. And Hillary is then far-right and the GOP is extreme-right?
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 05:45 PM
Jun 2016

Why do you say that, though? What is centrist and center-left, then, in your view? Rand Paul ?

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
8. CNN about an hour ago.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 04:02 PM
Jun 2016

Good stuff. He generally reiterated also his displeasure with money in politics and need for reforms but gone was any criticism of HRC. Mostly though he blasted Trump's religious extremism.

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