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Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:25 AM

 

Hillary's been late to the party on LGBTQ equality, late to the party on regrets about her Iraq War

vote, late to the party on $15 minimum wage, late to the party on TPP and NAFTA, late to the party on a humanistic view of immigration, etc.

Supporters of someone who's been late to the party so often shouldn't be the ones to issue threats about party unity.

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Reply Hillary's been late to the party on LGBTQ equality, late to the party on regrets about her Iraq War (Original post)
Vote2016 Jun 2016 OP
La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #1
azurnoir Jun 2016 #2
seabeyond Jun 2016 #5
azurnoir Jun 2016 #8
seabeyond Jun 2016 #13
azurnoir Jun 2016 #15
seabeyond Jun 2016 #21
azurnoir Jun 2016 #22
seabeyond Jun 2016 #25
La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #7
azurnoir Jun 2016 #11
La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #16
seabeyond Jun 2016 #14
La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #17
seabeyond Jun 2016 #24
elljay Jun 2016 #29
La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #30
elljay Jun 2016 #33
La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #35
seabeyond Jun 2016 #3
DURHAM D Jun 2016 #6
Vote2016 Jun 2016 #10
La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #12
NorthCarolina Jun 2016 #4
Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #9
seabeyond Jun 2016 #18
thesquanderer Jun 2016 #19
seabeyond Jun 2016 #26
KansDem Jun 2016 #23
seabeyond Jun 2016 #27
KansDem Jun 2016 #32
seabeyond Jun 2016 #34
QC Jun 2016 #28
seabeyond Jun 2016 #31
thesquanderer Jun 2016 #20
loyalsister Jun 2016 #38
djean111 Jun 2016 #36
Babel_17 Jun 2016 #37
seabeyond Jun 2016 #39
Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 #40

Response to Vote2016 (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:27 AM

1. she and bill were some of the earliest supporters on LGBTQ issues

 

the fact that the rest of the country was not with them, is not their fault

people who intentionally distort history to create a dishonest narrative are dishonest.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:29 AM

2. supportive like this?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:32 AM

5. 2004 Sanders opposed marriage equality also.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:33 AM

8. No he said it should be left to states to decide reality is it was SCOTUS who opened it up

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #8)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:37 AM

13. Yes, he opposed marriage equality. In 2009 he changed his opinion.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #13)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:38 AM

15. post it up then

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:46 AM

21. To justify his stance, Sanders complained that a battle for same-sex marriage would be too “divisive

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #21)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:50 AM

22. Sanders opposed DOMA which was Bill and Hillary's baby both advocated for it

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #22)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:17 PM

25. Which his excuse was... States rights. Now, this is interesting. Having just read about this

 

in that article that I provided for you. Very interesting.

Sanders people stated for him, his vote was with state because it would cause problems not having a uniformity, creating havoc.

Not for gay people. Not a mention of them. The tone deaf.

I talked to my brother in law, that is gay, living in both NY and SF and well into the politics. I was so angry about the 2004 marriage equality issue that was fore front. That was a learning experience I carry with me, because it so profoundly told me to shut up and listen.

I was cheering on and fighting for civil marriage. Good intent. I was pissed people were denied rights and this may be a step to loosening people up while allow gays to be legally protected.

I was told, in no uncertain word, that it was not good enough. I had to listen.

But, I was talking to my brother in law, angry and he sat back and said, it was cool, we were on the right track, it would happen. He did not have the same anger, having lived thru all this, not me.

With what Sanders said with DOMA, ... was exactly wrong. Because the states, certain states, started passing marriage equality and fucking up the system, it made people say.... this isn't scary, this is ok, my son got married, good for him.... or nephew, or mother, or or or or.

By that very action, it created an atmosphere that allowed the nation to do one big ole sigh, and let it the fuck go. Cause we all know it is right, morally and constitutionally.

Essentially that is what it takes to break the will of the division. Blacks. Women. Gays. We are seeing the same with the $15/hr. States, areas that can afford, companies..... That will make it a norm. The norm wins.

Very interesting.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:33 AM

7. Because people in 2004 were otherwise oh so supportive of gay marriage

 



this is what i mean by intentionally distorting history.

Bernie didn't come out for marriage till around 2009, although he represented one of the most liberal states on this issue and could have easily 'evolved' earlier.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:36 AM

11. it's no distortion in 2004 1994 or 1984 for that matter I felt the same as I do now

if ya want to get married get married no matter who you are, Hillary didn't untill after the SCOTUS ruling when it was politically safe

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:39 AM

16. Bernie too evolved on it when politically expedient, i.e. when his state evolved

 

not before.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:38 AM

14. Wasn't it 2001 Vermont tried to push it thru and regardless of being pushed for opinion, Sanders

 

refused to give an opinion and stayed silent?

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:06 PM

24. LGBT rights were not a “major priority” for him

 

Earlier in his political career, Sanders was even more indifferent toward gay rights, which W.J. Conroy recounts in his book Challenging the Boundaries of Reform: Socialism in Burlington. When serving as mayor of Burlington, Sanders told an interviewer that LGBT rights were not a “major priority” for him.


Asked if he would support a bill to protect gays from job discrimination, Sanders responded, “probably not.”


Thank you so much. I had not gone back that far. Simply amazing. And the man has the audacity to state that he was always. He cannot get away with buying into his own hype and call it integrity when he flat out plays politics.

I have not read this one. I have read many. Blacks with the 60's seems to be the time he touched on black lives. Women, 70 and 80's, I started gays about 90's.

Interesting. Thank you for the info.

This was my tell. I started with Sanders and immediately saw this tell, and suggested we allow gays, women, blacks to sit at the table, too. In between being told other things were more important, I was being told Sanders voice for me was good enough. A mlk/feminist hero better than any black or woman, I assure you, they told me. Christ live in that way. Yet... I was not hearing us discussed, and the little I heard, I was not impressed.

Very interesting. Now, here is the upside with all this, learning lessons in everything. Sanders has afforded me an opportunity to see a side of our Democratic man (and of course the women that support) that thinks he is supporting me, but not allowing us to speak, misses the mark.

That has been revelations for me, another growing experience. Hi women, and with your education, what do you see.

Thank you. Love it.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:27 PM

29. And people in 1864 were otherwise so supportive of freeing the slaves

I understand your point. Civil rights should be determined by public opinion and not by what is morally right. Hyoprisy in the defense of Clinton is no vice, right?

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Response to elljay (Reply #29)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:31 PM

30. not just in her defense, but in defense of Sanders, Obama, Kerry, and my mother.

 

none of whom supported gay marriage in 04 but all of whom do now.

also, while the slaves were 'freed' in 1864, black suffered from all sorts of legal discrimination/jim crow for a hundred years after. Civil rights and justice take time. it wasn't all done in 1864, nor even in 1964.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #30)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:48 PM

33. And that makes it ok in your view

well not in mine. I don't need straight people gaysplaining why I have fewer civil rights than African Americans in half of this country. I don't care what other people thought. I remember well when Hillary sold me out and then her "evolution" long after public opinion had changed and there were fewer consequences for doing what was right than for being opposed to equality. She belongs to a right wing Evangelical secret organization and I have no doubt her position is a pure political calculation and not a true belief. No justification for her at all.

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Response to elljay (Reply #33)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:53 PM

35. i don't need people comparing my rights to those of African Americans

 

since my people and I were never slaves, never subjected to jim crow etc. I don't need people speaking about gay as though there are no gay African Americans. I find people who do that, are general awash in white privilege.

Hillary and Bill Clinton spoke of the LGBT community in a way in the 90's that VERY few people in their stature did. They took a very different tone to AIDS than anyone who held their office before, and changed the climate around how people spoke about LGBT people. Just because you don't want to or can't remember that, is not my fault.

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:29 AM

3. +1. Nt

 

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:33 AM

6. This

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:36 AM

10. “I believe marriage is not just a bond, but a sacred bond between a man and a woman.”

 

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Response to Vote2016 (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:37 AM

12. yeah, so she thought and so did most of this country, including sanders and obama

 

till they evolved

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Response to Vote2016 (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:30 AM

4. She bases her personal ideals and positions solely on public polling. Hence the "weathervane" tag.

 

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Response to Vote2016 (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:34 AM

9. Bernie has said nothing that I have heard about LGBT...probably a distraction like abortion rights.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:40 AM

18. Women, blacks, gays has made amazing advances. More to go, lets applaud. Now, lets address the real

 

issue. White, middle/upper middle class, men that need our help.

Yup.

Wedge issues.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:44 AM

19. He did not call abortion a distraction, and he has said plenty about LGBT.

He never said abortion rights were a distraction, he was saying that Trump's stupid statements are distractions. You can see the original words (that were twisted by Clinton) at http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-full-transcript-rachel-maddow-interview-442491

And if you haven't heard him talk in support of LGBT, you haven't been listening.

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #19)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:19 PM

26. You guys keep saying he has said plenty. To women and blacks also. We keep telling you

 

we get too little time. White, middle/upper middle, men and university youth are 99 percent of the time, the he divveys out the rest to us. Maybe, sometimes.

This is our point.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:51 AM

23. He has said plenty about LGBT

Right to love each other, regardless of sexual orientation. (Jul 2015)
Never accept racism, sexism, nor homophobia. (Jun 1997)
Voted NO on Constitutionally defining marriage as one-man-one-woman. (Jul 2006)
Voted NO on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage. (Sep 2004)
Voted NO on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)
Voted NO on ending preferential treatment by race in college admissions. (May 1998)
Constitutional Amendment for equal rights by gender. (Mar 2001)
Rated 93% by the ACLU, indicating a pro-civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
Rated 100% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
ENDA: prohibit employment discrimination for gays. (Jun 2009)
Prohibit sexual-identity discrimination at schools. (Mar 2011)
Enforce against anti-gay discrimination in public schools. (Jun 2013)

Bernie Saners, "On the Issues"

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Response to KansDem (Reply #23)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:20 PM

27. Post 26. He has not said plenty. He has talked the issues, some.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #27)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:47 PM

32. His actions speak louder than words

While other public figures talk the talk, Bernie walks the walk.

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Response to KansDem (Reply #32)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:48 PM

34. Not good enough.

 

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Response to KansDem (Reply #23)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:25 PM

28. You might as well try to reason with Scientologists. n/t

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Response to QC (Reply #28)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 12:35 PM

31. And another really clever personal insult.

 

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Response to Vote2016 (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:45 AM

20. Keystone pipeline, private prisons...

About the only times she's not late are the places where she's still wrong.

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #20)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 01:42 PM

38. She took money from the private prison industry until she was criticized for it

“She believes that we should not contract out this core responsibility of the federal government,” Hinojosa said. “This is only one of many ways that she believes we need to re-balance our criminal justice and immigration systems.”

Yet the decision came after months of pressure from civil rights and immigrant justice groups, who launched online petitions and interrupted Clinton’s public events, demanding she cut ties with the private prison industry.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/10/23/3715544/clinton-private-prisons/


It's disturbing that it has been one human rights issue after another where she has had to evolve. It says a lot about her moral compass and values. One of the things that bothers me most is the lack of remorse. She owes a lot of apologies to families affected by mass incarceration and welfare reform.

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Response to Vote2016 (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 01:20 PM

36. She is not late to the party so much as having been told that she needs to make an appearance solely

 

to pander for votes. She would back off her new stances in a heartbeat, if the situation called for it. There is no there, there.

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Response to Vote2016 (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 01:37 PM

37. Your point is sound

The counter argument, imo, should be why her positives outweigh it. If Secretary Clinton becomes our nominee then only NAFTA and the TPP will be issues of concern to undecided moderates.

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Response to Babel_17 (Reply #37)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 01:43 PM

39. Clinton voted against Cafta, the only vote we really know. Her position on TPP

 

is more about how Sanders has defined her on the issue, not reality. So, I am interested where she goes here. It will give us a better idea.

NAFTA? She was not the boss, and it was not her doing the directing and guiding. Both TPP and NAFTA, her position was supporting another.

It will be interesting to see her position. It is very measured, and very informed.

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Response to Vote2016 (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 03:50 PM

40. Hillary has been worse than useless on all these struggles

 

She swoops in after the battle is won to pose for pictures.

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