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Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:20 AM

Here is my argument for party unity. All the things Bernie calls for have to be fought for and won

in Congress.

If Bernie were President he says he would hold rallies to get people to pressure Congress to act on his proposals.

Bernie will not be President but will remain in the Senate. There is no reason his revolution has to end after the convention.

He can still hold rallies as a Senator. He can work with others to put bills on the floor for single payer and free tuition and $15 minimum wage.

If they passed the House and Senate they would become law because Hillary would not veto them.

Given the circumstances as they stand, the best way toward getting Bernie's agenda passed is to keep the White House, regain the House and Senate, turn the SCOTUS more progressive and like Bernie says, 10's of millions outside Congress demanding the changes they want.

So if you can vote for Hillary yet hold on to the revolutionary dreams, it is possible to make things happen.

What will kill all hope is to elect Trump.

58 replies, 1505 views

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Reply Here is my argument for party unity. All the things Bernie calls for have to be fought for and won (Original post)
upaloopa Jun 2016 OP
tonyt53 Jun 2016 #1
Merryland Jun 2016 #2
NCTraveler Jun 2016 #7
redstatebluegirl Jun 2016 #3
Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #4
YouDig Jun 2016 #6
Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #10
YouDig Jun 2016 #13
Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #14
YouDig Jun 2016 #17
Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #23
YouDig Jun 2016 #24
Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #25
YouDig Jun 2016 #29
Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #41
YouDig Jun 2016 #43
mythology Jun 2016 #47
JoePhilly Jun 2016 #32
auntpurl Jun 2016 #33
Lucinda Jun 2016 #40
Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #49
Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #42
JoePhilly Jun 2016 #50
yodermon Jun 2016 #5
NCTraveler Jun 2016 #8
lagomorph777 Jun 2016 #9
mythology Jun 2016 #48
David__77 Jun 2016 #11
randome Jun 2016 #12
libdem4life Jun 2016 #26
HumanityExperiment Jun 2016 #15
tandot Jun 2016 #16
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #18
Doctor_J Jun 2016 #19
jeff47 Jun 2016 #20
puffy socks Jun 2016 #53
jeff47 Jun 2016 #54
puffy socks Jun 2016 #55
jeff47 Jun 2016 #58
nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #21
seabeyond Jun 2016 #22
libdem4life Jun 2016 #28
seabeyond Jun 2016 #31
libdem4life Jun 2016 #34
seabeyond Jun 2016 #35
libdem4life Jun 2016 #36
seabeyond Jun 2016 #38
libdem4life Jun 2016 #39
Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #45
seabeyond Jun 2016 #51
vi5 Jun 2016 #27
basselope Jun 2016 #30
anotherproletariat Jun 2016 #37
Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #44
upaloopa Jun 2016 #52
PowerToThePeople Jun 2016 #46
bigwillq Jun 2016 #56
azurnoir Jun 2016 #57

Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:21 AM

1. Bingo.

 

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:22 AM

2. I honestly think that in a few days

all of this will be moot when indictments come down.

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Response to Merryland (Reply #2)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:25 AM

7. I honestly don't think the Sanders will be indicted for their actions at Burlington.....

 

or the campaigns theft of Data. No need to go the indictment route. Sanders lost the nomination.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:23 AM

3. Great post!

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:23 AM

4. After months of "no we can't" I find it hard to believe a word you say.

 

Corporatism is a great evil in our society. Trump is one of its manifestations. But there are others.

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Response to Betty Karlson (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:25 AM

6. Do you think Hillary would veto progressive legislation that Bernie got through congress?

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Response to YouDig (Reply #6)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:27 AM

10. No. But pressure senate friends to kill it or amend it to death: that would be consistent with

 

a) her record
b) Third Way's standard modus operandi.

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Response to Betty Karlson (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:29 AM

13. You mean the record of voting with Bernie 93% of the time? That record?

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Response to YouDig (Reply #13)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:32 AM

14. No, the record that includes DOMA, DADT, TPP, TTIP, fracking, IWR, Libya, and Syria.

 

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Response to Betty Karlson (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:37 AM

17. So you want to ignore the 93% of the votes they agree on to push a false narrative.

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Response to YouDig (Reply #17)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 04:18 PM

23. Clinton shares over 90% of her votes with ANY Democratic senator.

 

Homophobes like the late Byrd included. So yeah, all those procedural votes and bills all Democrats agreed on: they don't matter as much as the 7 % that she doesn't agree on with Sanders. Those 7 % relate to equal rights, to prison industry, to gay rights, to 'trade' agreements, and to payday loan sharks.

It's not a false narrative. You just wish it were.

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Response to Betty Karlson (Reply #23)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 04:50 PM

24. That's not true, but then "not true" from a Berner is hardly surprising, is it?

Dems do share far more common votes with each other than with the GOP, which is why it's important to vote Dem.

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Response to YouDig (Reply #24)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 05:09 PM

25. So no response on substance then? How typical of a Hill-bully.

 

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Response to Betty Karlson (Reply #25)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 05:21 PM

29. I did respond. You flat-out lied. Any evidence to back that 90% thing? Didn't think so.

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Response to YouDig (Reply #29)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 06:03 AM

41. congressional records.

 

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Response to Betty Karlson (Reply #41)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:43 AM

43. Congressional records don't support your lie.

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Response to Betty Karlson (Reply #25)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:06 AM

47. Complaining about a lack of substance while

 

Name calling is amusing.

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Response to Betty Karlson (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 06:20 PM

32. Gish Gallop alert!!

Hillary has no vote in DOMA or DADT. And under Obama, she supported ending both. And they are GONE.

She also had no vote on TTP or Fracking. In fact, no vote on those has happened.

She voted to allow Bush to make the Decision on IWR, as a last resort. As did Kerry and Biden ... who get a pass.

Then, you toss in Libya and Syria ... both of which she and Obama decided to NOT invade. Which is EXACTLY what the GOP demanded the Obama administration do ... INVADE and OCCUPY.

And then ... You left out her roll on the nuke deal with Iran.

The left loses credibility when it plays the games you are playing.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #32)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 06:38 PM

33. I would be very surprised if you get a response.

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #33)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 10:33 PM

40. +1

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #33)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:13 AM

49. I'm not surprised to see straight moderates fail to understand what it felt like to have

 

Democrats vote for and promote DOMA. 'It's over' they say as if the harm done was not done. There are amends that should be made, at least words spoken but instead we get 'it's over'.



There are ways to speak of great tragedy and injustice that are healing, and other ways that are destructive.
I urge all people to consider the nature of the subject matter and always seek healing over destruction.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #32)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 06:16 AM

42. Clinton supported (and was married to ) the president who signed DOMA and DADT.

 

She negotiaterd TPP and TTIP

She did vote on IWR

She enacted the new clusterf*cks Syria and Libya.

The disconnect from reality among the Hill-bullies is staggering> any mistake Clinton has made is "a right wing conspiracy" or should be dismissed on a technicality like "she didn't have an actual vote, only soft power behind the scenes". Guys, if she touts her years as First Lady as part of that supposed experience of hers, then what happened in those years, and the advice she gave to Clinton, and the acts he took as a result of that advice, are legitimate targets of criticism.

As for her supporting their overturning: Clinton can always be counted on to do the right thing - after all other options have been tried. She is always late to the party.

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Response to Betty Karlson (Reply #42)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:52 AM

50. Once again ...

... a Bern-out (notice I adopted your hyphenated approach for knick-naming supporters of the alternative candidate) recreates history to ensure that Hillary is the single person most responsible for all human suffering in the world, including suffering that hasn't actually occurred.

I've watched this same behavior for the last 7+ years as folks claiming to be liberal attacked Obama and blamed him for all manner of human suffering, while predicting even greater suffering to come, which also never came to pass.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:24 AM

5. I appreciate this post. n/t

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:26 AM

8. K&R nt.

 

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:26 AM

9. Need big coattails to flip Congress

which requires an enthusiastic GE electorate.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:28 AM

11. I think that's a very helpful post for this site.

Next week, I will vote for Sanders to be the Democratic nominee. I also think that it's highly likely that Clinton will be Democratic candidate in November. A great thing that progressive-minded people can do is to vote for progressive-minded candidates at all levels of government.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:28 AM

12. He should have been doing that during his past 25 years in the Senate.

 

Instead, he kept his head down and served on committees and wrote legislation but rarely ventured out of his office to be seen and heard and to rally people to his cause.

He swooped in at the last minute expecting everyone to immediately flock to his side. That's not how politics works.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 05:14 PM

26. Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda

 

Right on target. Words of a .....non - winner.

ETA: hindsight is 20/20

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:32 AM

15. ...corrected...

 

So can you vote for Hillary yet hold on to the revolutionary dreams, is it possible to make those liberal/progressive policies happen?

What will kill all hope is to elect any candidate that doesn't hold to DEM liberal/progressive policies

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:35 AM

16. Thanks! I hope he can do that!

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:48 AM

18. I honestly LIKE that. Keeps the fire on Hillary to stay left.

And such rallies and demonstrations could be very helpful to her in many ways. Working together in this way could be wildly successful if it's done well.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 11:54 AM

19. none of the things that we believe should happen will happen with a president who is fighting

 

against liberalism. mrs Clinton doesn't have a liberal bone in her body, and no amount of pleading will cause her to abandon Wall Street and the mic. we need a president who believes in a better America, and hillary is not that president

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 01:13 PM

20. Here's the error in your analysis

If they passed the House and Senate they would become law because Hillary would not veto them.

Not gonna happen.

All you have to do is look at the Democrats who keep killing liberal efforts in order to keep the cash and revolving door going.

After all, we had a majority in the House, and a majority in the Senate in 2009. Yet those attempting to even talk about single-payer or public option were locked out of the ACA discussions.

Resulting in the passage of Bob Dole's health care "reform" plan.

Yet here you are, pretending that Democrats would never fight against such things....

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #20)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:03 AM

53. Here's the error on your post

 

Dems never had a super majority for longer than 6 wks before the ultra liberals hamstrung Dems for the next few yrs as punishment by not voting or voting third party
Gee that sure helped and now these same fools want to do the same damned things and expect a different result

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Response to puffy socks (Reply #53)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:41 AM

54. And that requires not talking about single-payer AND public option because.........?

I'm not talking about the plan itself. I'm talking about the discussions to generate that plan.

You don't even need a majority to have those discussions, much less let the single-payer or public option advocates speak during those discussions.

before the ultra liberals hamstrung Dems for the next few yrs as punishment by not voting or voting third party

Damn them for expecting their party to actually give a fuck about what they want!!!!!!!!

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #54)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:56 AM

55. Yes they did need a super majority

 

and the GOP with corporate media help directed the conversation the entire time
Ppl bought into death panels for Christ's sake! Try a hint of reality in your little screed


Yes..Damn them for abandoning their leader and being so ridiculously naive and self centered so we couldnt take control. But the Wmps cant even endure six months!

The public option was the toe in the door for gradually getting to single payer.

Any "revolution" from these wimpy cowards is dead before it starts
Why? Too naive to understand the system, too arrogant to learn it, too selfish to unify and gain an unstoppable majority.

I'm beginning to think Berniebros don't want any changes they just want to whine

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Response to puffy socks (Reply #55)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:57 AM

58. Reading. You need to try doing it sometime.

They needed a supermajority to pass a bill.

They did not need a majority at all to let single-payer or public option be part of the discussion of a bill.

Take some time to actually review those sentences. Then you might actually understand the discussion. Of course, that would get in the way of the hero-worship.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 01:19 PM

21. It will happen when enough pressure is put from the streets

 

Because we had a democratic house and senate in 2008 and the blue dogs, like good neoliberals that they are, fought it.

The country has been heading towards something ugly for over 30 years. So try that with people who still believe in the voting faerie. Power concedes nothing.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 01:21 PM

22. If Sanders was serious, he would start grassroot, local and filling in those spots, working up.

 

I was told today, he doesn't want to do the work, just have everyone else do the work and do what he says.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #22)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 05:20 PM

28. Keep up listening to other people

 

Saves the stress of thinking for one's self.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #28)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 06:11 PM

31. Seriously? I started with thoughts that if Sanders serious about a revolution he would start with

 

grass root and local.

Yet, being too busy to pay attention, you thought insulting was the answer.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #31)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 08:31 PM

34. Actually, you are right.

 

He did indeed make his case and go directly to the grass roots and local for donations of $47...that was the entire point. (I've never met him, but I have a small sum taken out of my account every month.) So, that's exactly what he did. It is still happening.

I think gigantic rallies, free to the public, bring up the grass roots point, as well.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #34)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 08:49 PM

35. No he did not. He did speeches and gained followers who couldn't be bothered to vote.

 

Starting a grass root, think bagger, .... go to the local elections, get elected and take it thru state, then national. That is a revolution. This is a percentage of the U.S. simply throwing a tantrum.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #35)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:05 PM

36. I think you mean he didn't do it the way you think he should have.

 

It continues beyond the convention...already in the works. Time will tell.

The world has changed, but you know that. Social media, internet, television, etc.

What I hear you saying is that you want an establishment candidate. Nothing wrong with that.

But I truly don't understand your last sentence.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #36)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:53 PM

38. We will see, and there is that possibility, but it actually means doing the work too,

 

instead of just getting all razzed at speeches and not voting.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #38)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:55 PM

39. I agree. We still have to do the work.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #38)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:57 AM

45. Oregon sure as shit voted. For Bernie. Big margin. Closed Primary. We give our electoral votes to

 

Democrats. Aren't you in Texas?
"Texas Still Second to Last in Voter Turnout for Primaries"
March 16- "After a new round of states voted Tuesday, Texas still had the second lowest voting-age participation rate of all that have held both Democratic and Republican primaries so far, behind only Louisiana.

Texas pulled in more than 4.2 million voters in its March 1 primaries, the most in state history, according to the secretary of state, but that number accounts for only 21.5 percent of residents 18 and older."
https://www.texastribune.org/2016/03/16/texas-still-second-last-voter-turnout/

Democratic Turnout in Texas was 7.2%.

And you are lecturing others about 'not voting'? Seriously?

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #45)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:56 AM

51. Seriously? Lol. Beyond the fact it was interesting information, I am hardly responsible for the

 

state of Texas getting out to vote, though by your point alone and how you allocate responsibility, I should get a pat on the back for the highest number ever. That is a start.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 05:19 PM

27. Right....like during the Obama years

 

The Actual People "LETS RALLY!!! FIGHT FIGHT!!!!"

The Very Wise Establishment Democrats "No! SHHHH! Don't do anything. We got this. Trust us. Don't make waves."

The Actual People "O.K. sure. Got it. We trust you."

At most half measures pass, at worst really shitty legislation passes.

The Actual People: "Hey! What happened?"

The Very Wise Establishment Democrats: "Well why didn't you guys fight harder?!?!? Nothing more we could have done about it . Don't blame us."

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 05:21 PM

30. Funny, I can make the OPPOSITE argument very easily.

 

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 09:12 PM

37. Absolutely, even if his supporters are not ready to donate to Hillary, more of their $27 donations

 

would go a long way in electing more progressives to congress.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 08:52 AM

44. The problem here is this. I just now read another thread in which you had this post hidden:

 

"I hate Bernie so I am not going to say anything good about him. His campaign and his supporters turned me off him and them.

You bash my candidate for over a year and now we have to be nice to you. Well don't count me in on that. And I don't care one wit if you don't vote for Hillary in the general.

Take your attitude and shove it!"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2115312

You use the word 'hate' and state that your intentions are malicious, and so this OP is disingenuous without a large apology as preface.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #44)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:00 AM

52. I don't have to like the guy or his followers for us to work together

Our animosity for each other will take a long time to heal if ever but we have a common enemy.

No I have no love to give to Bernie or those that bashed Hillary with their lies and conspiricy theory's and are praying for an indictment.

Don't expect us to fall for your blackmail I won't vote unless you are nice to me.

We all need to take responcibility for how we play out the general election.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:00 AM

46. No party unity with Hillary!

 

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:57 AM

56. Hillary and Bernie will be united by November

 

As will the party.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:01 AM

57. except we've already been told they're off the table

how does one fight for a meal that's not there

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