Report: Almost 50% of Democrats feel disconnected with party; despondent, helpless about election

[brentspeak]

The corporate Democrats have run the party into the ground, and the "queen" of them all is being primed and prepped to perform the coup de grace.

Time to take the party back from the Wall Street infiltrators and bring it back to its New Deal roots, once and for all.

http://www.sltrib.com/home/3948261-155/voters-feel-disconnected-helpless-in-2016

Voters feel disconnected, helpless in 2016, poll says
By Steve Peoples and Emily Swanson The Associated Press
First Published 1 hour ago • Updated 59 minutes ago

Washington • Republicans and Democrats feel a massive disconnect with their political parties and helpless about the presidential election.

snip

The Democratic Party fares only slightly better, with 14 percent saying the party is very or extremely responsive, 38 percent calling it moderately responsive, and 46 percent saying it's only slightly or not at all responsive.

snip

On the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton remains locked in a divisive primary battle with Sanders, a self-identified democratic socialist who has inspired a large and loyal following. The Vermont senator has echoed Trump's charges of an unfair political system that's stacked against him and ordinary Americans, a criticism that resonates with many voters.

"It seems that everything was made straight for Hillary Clinton," said Ron Cserbak, a 63-year-old retired teacher who lives in Cincinnati and usually votes for Democrats.

snip

Worse, 55 percent of Americans, including 60 percent of Republicans and 53 percent of Democrats, say they feel helpless about the 2016 election. And two-thirds of Americans under 30 report feeling helpless.

"I am despondent," Cserbak said. "I wouldn't say I feel totally helpless. I do have a vote."

[CentralMass]

1. K&R

[Hortensis]

18. Pure nonsense. What's really in it for you,

btw, to believe this stuff? Could you possibly be setting yourself up for a huge disappointment if you discover those Bernie and Hillary supporters who are supporting her are feeling glad and it's the hillhaters who disconnected themselves who are feeling despondent and helpless?

Consider this: A full 80% of Iowa Sanders voters on caucus day were happy to have Hillary as their second choice. When the very highly regarded pollster offered them the word "respect" in regard to Hillary they endorsed that too. It's the DU meme that is deluded. Iowa was real and replicated to various degrees in other states. You can look it up. The pollster's name is Ann Selzer, and political analysts across the nation focus on her and the polls she produces for the Des Moines Register during elections, even flying in and attending her statements in person during the caucus.

Maybe think about it? The primary's just the warm-up. We're heading into the general, where the future direction of our nation will be decided. 2016 is going to be one of the really big ones in our history.

[Fawke Em]

41. If it's so important, why are the Democrats picking a candidate under criminal investigation

with a likeability rating that is lower than whale crap?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

76. there are a lot of people who are nervous now about Hillary

[NJCher]

103. few here

will remember the Nixon years, when he sleazed his way in and then all we did was undergo hearings, there was stalling, and it was just in general a mess where nothing got done.

Our nation has had the two parties are at loggerheads, and both are bought off by the rich. Nothing has been done or is being done for the average, middle-class citizen, and as a result our middle class has suffered. There are many theorists who say that you can't have a democracy without a middle class.

We need to elect the candidate who will restore the middle class and offer opportunities and aid to help the lower classes move up.

Cher

[Matt_in_STL]

51. Iowa was many months ago. Let's not pretend things haven't changed.

[alittlelark]

75. Amazing number$ you have here !!

Number of posts, last 90 days: 2963
Favorite forum: General Discussion: Primaries, 1752 posts in the last 90 days (59% of total posts)
Favorite group: Hillary Clinton, 49 posts in the last 90 days (2% of total posts)

You are a busy, busy girl.

[emsimon33]

84. That was then, this is now!

[Scootaloo]

108. What right to you have to berate and badger someone for how they feel?

[passiveporcupine]

152. "it's the hillhaters who disconnected themselves"

Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton register net negative ratings in double digits, indicating the front-runners for each party's presidential nominations are viewed negatively at historic levels

On the Democratic side, Clinton fares only slightly better with a net negative of -21, registering a 31% favorable rating and a 52% unfavorable rating,

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/22/politics/2016-election-poll-donald-trump-hillary-clinton/

If that is the case, that's a lot of disconnect. That is NOT good for the party.

[Electric Monk]

2. Greenwald summed it up nicely in a tweet the other day

[libdem4life]

6. but..but...but...Bernie hasn't been vetted yet.

I think what they mean is that Bernie hasn't been sufficiently smeared by professional national operatives. Then again, appears we'll never know for sure. And that 50%? It will grow, unfortunately, on both sides of the aisle.

[Blue Meany]

26. He has been vetted but there was much mud to throw and it didn't stick n/t

[libdem4life]

85. If you meant "not much mud", then I totally agree.

[QC]

15. Yep. That sums it up perfectly.

But if she loses, it will be the fault of the hippies, don't you know, who are a tiny, irrelevant fringe capable of determining the outcome of elections.

[socialist_n_TN]

98. The neo-liberal Dems love to have it both ways.......

don't they?

[2banon]

162. this ^^^ ...

But if she loses, it will be the fault of the hippies, don't you know, who are a tiny, irrelevant fringe capable of determining the outcome of elections.

I know Right? that's some serious pretzel making they're engaged in:

small, irrelevant fringe determines elections

[vintx]

133. Yes he did nt

[phleshdef]

3. Hillary Clinton is uninspiring and visionless.

[merrily]

53. Oh, I think she has a vision, all right.

[amborin]

62. NeoCon Regime Change, Promoting the 1%, enriching herself via CF, etc....

[JEB]

70. That is how I see it as well.

These Clintonistas better be ready to offer up their children to the war machine. The ME desert will soak up a lot of blood.

[RKP5637]

129. Yep, she has her vision and she keeps passing out the feel good Kool-Aid to her guppies. n/t

[QC]

57. "Where there is no vision, the people perish."

Bill Clinton used that line to devastating effect against George Bush I, a nice enough man with a great résumé but indeed no vision.

And here we are twenty-four years later to find ourselves facing another candidate with no vision. (Two of them, actually.)

[Puglover]

113. A facebook poster said something that struck me

on Stephanie Millers facebook page.

"The country has made it very clear that they want change. Donald Trump is offering change. (As horrible as it is.) Hillary Clinton is offering up the same old shit." Do the math."

[QC]

124. Yeah, but what the people want, and even what's good for the country,

are just not as important as filling in that last blank on the resumé.

[lumberjack_jeff]

114. I'm sick of being told that this lack of vision is a feature and not a bug.

"How is Sanders going to accomplish all this stuff with a Republican congress?"

[larkrake]

135. he has more believers in Congress that Clinton, which is why he is the

amendment king

[passiveporcupine]

155. He's not the one who can get it done

We are. He's just going to be our leader and negotiator.

[TheFarseer]

117. Totally wrong

Her vision is " I deserve to be president" and she inspires banks and foreign governments to give her money.

[bigwillq]

4. I am part of that almost 50 percent

I think the DEM party is headed in the wrong direction. I have no enthusiasm about Nov if it is Hillary-Trump. I will vote DEM downticket, but that's as much as I will get involved.

[RKP5637]

130. Millions feel Bernie and Trump talk "to" we the people. But also millions feel

Hillary talks "at" them. 2016 is going to be a very difficult election and FFS, I hope Trump gets nowhere near the WH. I feel the democratic PTB have their heads up their butts. They don't seem to comprehend the change in the voting population this time. Millions of voters are totally fed up with the R and D establishments, and Hillary represents the democratic establishment.

[Purveyor]

5. clinton's banking on a trump debacle. I'm not so certain... eom

[EL34x4]

52. So were 16 GOP challengers (n/t)

[Purveyor]

66. Indeed all the sop rulebooks are moot at this point. No one has a f'n clue what the public 'mood'

will be by Nov.

[Bettie]

95. The problem with Trump is that

the more horrifying he is, the more popular he seems to get.

It is the strangest thing I've ever seen.

[NJCher]

105. Trump's outrageousness

So true; this has thrown everyone for a loop!

Cher

[beachbumbob]

7. 24/7 coverage of blah blah has its intended effect

Keep Americans apathetic...

[pat_k]

9. More findings from AP-NORC poll

http://www.apnorc.org/projects/Pages/HTML%20Reports/the-frustrated-public-americans-views-of-the-election-issue-brief.aspx

[JudyM]

72. WTH? "Most Republicans (57 percent) say Trump's candidacy has been good for the Republican Party"

[Dem2]

10. Perhaps sowing the seeds of discontent here, on reddit twitter tumblr and FB is paying off for y'all

Thanks for the hate and discontent. It's working!

[tokenlib]

13. Seeds of discontent? Try 20 plus years of Third Way betrayals...

Social policy pablum to keep the masses in line and economic policy crumbs or betrayals to be more blunt...

[Dem2]

16. You said it

Sowing the seeds of discontent - AKA internet pablum.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Ah ignorant partisans

neo liberal economic philosophy is a thing. So are neo cons.

Enjoy that ignorance.

[cui bono]

58. Nice victim blaming.

How dare the peasants speak out! They should just accept the crumbs, if any, that are given to them.

In your world, it's not the fire that is damaging, it's the people pointing out that there is a fire.

.

[Armstead]

63. There has been discontent for decades -- And yet the democrats get less responsive to change

Nothing to do with Sanders, the Internet or anything else except that the system has been hijacked and people don't like it.

[socialist_n_TN]

99. This is what decades of "lesser of two evils" triangulation......

has brought us to. A socially moderate (not even liberal) neo-conservative versus a Mussolini rhetoric spouting buffoon who has at least a 50% chance of winning.

[Jarqui]

19. That is a condescending remark

I guess I'm one of the 58%.

It's not based on hating someone. What I hate is being put into a position where I have to support the lying and dishonesty of one candidate and a DNC when I was raised in an era where we didn't stand for people like that: ie Richard Nixon. And being placed into that position does leave me beyond discontent. I'm bewildered.

I have fought for the Democratic platform for more than 50 years. I've never been so disillusioned. It's really not because Bernie's losing even though I preferred his positions. It's because of the poor qualities in the person who is winning.

Now there's no question that the racist, dishonest carnival barker is worse. I get that. I really do. And I agree. I could never support him or the party he represents because they have never represented me. They do not stand for anything I want. If there's any hatred in me, it's probably there - I rarely feel that way.

But our very likely candidate sucks the wind out of my sails. I think she's a horrible candidate. I personally can't stand her dishonesty. And much of it happened in the last year because I started out this year intending to support her and having forgiven her for 2008 because she seemed to behave herself during Obama's years.

It has nothing to do with DU, reddit, twitter, DKos, etc. It has everything to do with the actions of the candidate who is winning.

[Dem2]

20. You don't know condescention

Try being a Hillary supporter, or one who just likes both candidates like myself.

Hypocrisy is not seeing what everybody around you is doing and pretending that you're not participating.

[phleshdef]

27. Oh right, it couldn't possibly be the fault of a lackluster front runner, that, fair or not, has...

...a wealth of political baggage.

[GRhodes]

35. So you

don't deal with that reality, and instead blame others for it coming about? Head back in the sand with ya.

[Dem2]

43. Welcome to DU!

[GRhodes]

46. Thanks

been a real treat so far.

[JCanete]

83. I've made similar posts to yours from the other side of things, but there are marked differences in

Last edited Tue May 31, 2016, 09:43 AM - Edit history (1)

circumstances. For one, Hillary has had the media in her corner this primary season. Any time the contest has looked out of Reach for Bernie, all of a sudden the media has been all about ginning up a horse race, but when there's a big state vote, thats when the water carriers come out in full force.

Aside from the email scandal, there isn't a lot of overlap between the attacks that right-wingers make on Hillary and the criticisms that liberal democrats levy at her. Well that scandal and some of her most bald-faced, lies. The vitriol may be at a similar level, but on the right, people hate her because of platitude platitude, unintelligible gibberish, platitude. They hate her because they've been told she's the devil, which is all just part of an organized effort to position her version of the Democratic Party as at the far left fringe. This is really awesome, whether its by design or an unintended bonus, because most of those attacks have been so baseless and absurd that democrats have rallied to her side, and it has provided her and the DNC cover to continue to move our party right, as a means of courting a "right leaning" electorate.

Thats the kind of thing we on the left side of the political spectrum don't like about her. I'm sure she's a lovely person. I'm sure that she believes that she's doing what's right, even if that's "get into the white house at all costs" because once there, she probably thinks she's going to do some good. But her version of good and mine are very different, and hers coincides too damn cozily with her own staggering personal enrichment to gain my trust--not while telling us what we can't do to those same institutions she profits from.

Just so long as people are moving away from Hillary for the right reasons, and not Derp, Bengazi, "some Dead person!", blah blah, well then yes, I'm glad that people are waking up and being discontented. Those are good fucking reasons to be discontented. Those are good fucking reasons to question either her motivations or her direction. I think the hatred can be toned down(not the criticisms), but then, that shit is going on on both sides of this primary, and please don't pretend it isn't, or that one side has more of it. That's just confirmation bias in action.

[larkrake]

137. Thank you for voicing what many of us feel

[passiveporcupine]

156. Could not have said it better!

she probably thinks she's going to do some good. But her version of good and mine are very different, and hers coincides too damn cozily with her own staggering personal enrichment to gain my trust-

[TheFarseer]

120. You think it's just internet chatter that has people upset?

It's not 40 years of jobs going overseas, the rich getting richer and the rest of us facing stagnant wages, endless war, rising healthcare costs and college costs, an out of control debt and our party that is supposed to be on our side not doing anything about it. You don't think it's that?

[Dem2]

146. Blaming the Democrats it just takes a special kind of Ridiculousness

And yes, we are up against competition that works for $2 an hour it's a real threat. Do you have a solution?

[TheFarseer]

147. You can start by making them take the tarriffs off our goods

China has tariffs on our goods and we don't have tariffs on their goods or at least a very small one. We don't even have the courage to do this.

[GreatGazoo]

122. the 120,000 who were purged in Brooklyn surely feel disconnected

I wonder who disconnected them?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/4/22/1518871/-The-Curious-Connection-Between-the-Brooklyn-Voter-Purge-and-the-Congresswoman-from-Westchester

[Dem2]

145. Some Republican was scolded

Hillary lost a few votes from a place where she dominated, so it wasn't a big deal for the primary; but it was a big deal to those voters who had to vote using alternate methods.

[AgingAmerican]

11. Exactly DWS/Hillary's goal over the last year

Ignore the Democratic electorate and run on name recognition alone.

[tokenlib]

12. After 20+ years of DLC/New Dem/Third Way infestation this is your reward...

No Bernie is not the problem. Bernie disappears tomorrow and Hillary and the DNC still have a big problem. They need to look in the mirror, back about to 1992 or before...

We're not buying the middle of the road shit, that swerves us towards the right like our alignment is broke any more... or at least not in the numbers the powers that be expect. Surprise?

[Baobab]

14. The real number is much higher

If I was polled, I wouldn't say that, despite the fact that I feel that way.

Its time for real change.

[felix_numinous]

17. Hoping there are enough ethical people

of influence who can resist getting on that money train and do the right thing. We have been let down so many times it has created an open wound.

Does money trump justice? Does money trump human rights, or a sustainable peaceful and safe future?

It feels like the Clintons aboard that money train don't care, they are too drunk on power to control this train, and in fact reports of them being in control are turning out to be a complete fabrication. They have given away too much information, money and influence to the highest levels of our government, all for personal gain.

Hoping that Bernie Sanders inspired enough people inside the beltway along with the millions outside of it. Doing what is right now has the potential to save millions of lives, and change the course of history.

[larkrake]

138. unfortunately alot of candidates are running to get on that money train

I have little faith in the human race

[Scuba]

21. "If ...

"If the Democratic Party would fight as hard for the Working Class as the Republican Party fights for the Ruling Class, the Republicans would be a powerless minority party within a few election cycles.

The Democratic Party knows this, the Republican Party knows this, the Ruling Class knows this- and they've been astonishingly successful at making sure the Working Class never learns this."

[Fawke Em]

47. I think Bernie's candidacy represents the fact that the Working Class are waking up to it. eom

[aikoaiko]

22. I feel it. First time in my life I considered declaring independent and not voting

It's a little sad for me.

[tabasco]

23. I'm part of the disillusioned.

I handed out pamphlets for Hubert H. Humphrey before I was old enough to vote. Been a Democrat my whole life, but this DNC/Clinton Democratic party has lost its soul.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Ah a low turnout election

how well does that work for Democrats? Bueller, bueller?

But I insist, if the DNC intends to commit suicide, go for it. I ain't gonna stop you

[QC]

28. Yes. n/t

[Doctor_J]

29. So the left "fringe" is actually half of the party. And, the du Clinton supporters swear

they don't need our votes or those of the Sanders independents. Entitled much?

[Bettie]

115. Yeah, but we're the half that doesn't matter

we're the far left radical fringe....half.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. Quick!! Print more Loyalty Oaths!!

[Tortmaster]

31. It's called losing.

People get over it.

[GRhodes]

36. In this context

would the people getting over it be the general public?

[Tortmaster]

38. You can help us beat Trump, or ...

... you can strip off your clothes at the Libertarian National Convention. Both are fine choices.

[GRhodes]

42. Tone deaf

What an absurd response, and sure fire way to turn people off. Why exactly am I helping you do? Elect a corrupt, center-right war hawk? I don't even live in a swing state, so why the hell would I bother?

People like yourself likely nominate the most unpopular nominee in the party's history, the second most unpopular nominee in polling history, someone disliked by a large percentage of the public, and you dismiss me out of hand with that nonsense. No wonder the party is collapsing. Tone deaf in the extreme, not at all serious about addressing why people feel so disconnected to the party and unhappy with what the political system has produced (the two most disliked nominees in polling history heading the two major parties).

Green Party may see their ranks swell if this keeps up.

[Tortmaster]

60. Im sure Green, Republican and ...

... Libertarian trolls will try to recruit new members, but only idiots need apply. Since you're not an idiot, I have nothing to worry about here, now do I?

[Maedhros]

79. Nothing to see here, people.

Profile Information
Member since: Thu Nov 14, 2013, 05:12 AM
Number of posts: 171



/ignore list.

[Fumesucker]

81. Turning people off is what it's supposed to do

There's a lot of very calculated propaganda being spewed and it's designed to depress the vote. Their problem is that for what they are willing to pay they can't get anyone who isn't as obvious at it as a hippo practicing parkour.

Oh, and welcome to DU!

[Tortmaster]

89. Thanks for the welcome,

and I agree with the substance of your post to a certain extent. (I just don't know the extent!) I do know that HRC supporters are Democrats who want Democrats to win in November, and that's a great thing.

I will treat everyone else as wrong. Cheers!

[CorkySt.Clair]

127. The myth is your vote could have ever been won by Hillary

You don't like her and don't intend to vote for her. Fair enough. But you and the other Berners should drop the pretense that if she only did this or only did that, you might consider thinking about voting for her in November. You're not going to vote for her under any circumstances, so let's drop the dog and pony show that nobody is buying anyway.

[GRhodes]

150. Yeah, great idea

We should demand nothing of her. Surely, even if I don't like her, I wouldn't want people to apply maximum pressure on her to make her less hawkish, less corrupt, and less right wing (or as the establishment calls it, "centrist&quot on economic issues. I think it makes total logical sense to demand nothing of her and to say nothing as inequality continues to grow, along with deindustrialization, private debt, infrastructure continues to crumble and we get even closer to ecological collapse. We should be good little sheep, and just say nothing. Besides, why would she want to move to the left on the issues, given that the left's policies are now very popular and popular opinion is to the left of Clinton, those that run the DNC, and certainly the Republicans? Surely her taking popular stances on issues wouldn't help her campaign, working people and the environment.

I await the "pivot towards the center" (center of what exactly?) with joy.

[cui bono]

74. I'm doing my part to defeat Trump by supporting Bernie.

What are you doing to help defeat Trump?

.

[corkhead]

111. Congratulations #309

[One Black Sheep]

32. Hillary is the most uninspiring candidate possible, and represents the last gasp of establishment

corruption and the status quo...


No wonder so many Democrats are despondent...Democrats traditionally are all about change and progress, instead, they are being railroaded into a candidate who is all about the opposite.

[Tortmaster]

39. Boy, will you be sad, when, at ...

...the Democratic National Convention, the excitement crescendoes as first President Clinton, then President Obama and finally Secretary Clinton, whip the crowd in the auditorium--as we'll as every Democrat watching at home--into a frenzy like we have never seen.

[GRhodes]

45. Yay...

speeches. How do I pay for my graduate education with their wonderful words? Do you think my school accepts the words of president Clinton in lieu of money? Fingers crossed! Forget that DWS has entirely thrown the convention open to corporate interests, that those politicians will be attending galas paid for by giant multi-nationals, they'll say great stuff in a speech. Yippie.

[Fawke Em]

49. And imagine how anti-climatic it will be.

Presidents Clinton and Obama are orators. They know how to give barn-burner speeches.

But Hillary Clinton is as dry as dust. Her voice is more akin to nails on a chalkboard than soaring.

Speeches! Yay! Ears! Ouch!

[Tortmaster]

61. Your misogyny slipped ...

... out.

[Art_from_Ark]

69. LOL

When your argument fails, bring out the old worn out misogyny accusation.

That particular poster you replied to is a woman, by the way.

[Tortmaster]

73. Well, tell her to stop ...

... being so misogynistic. Or, you can wallow in it yourself. Your choice.
This, by the way, is another reason why Senator Sanders lost so badly. The misogyny of a vocal minority of his supporters, as well as the fact that he hasn't a fuck to give about social issues.

[Art_from_Ark]

78. Oh, please

The misogyny argument is so tiresome and ridiculous. It is always brought up when her supporters cannot support her positions as a candidate.

And I cannot tell that poster what to do -- she has her own mind, she is free to say what she wants.

[GRhodes]

80. What utter nonsense

if that is your logic, what did Clinton's outright racist behavior and her supporters even worse behavior in 2008 say about her and them? Sanders' actual supporters are the most progressive people in the country, but you people have turned those progressive people into sexist, violent (the Vegas blatant lies), Utopian dreamers that only want people to speak English (remember the "English only" lie?). Glenn Greenwald did actual journalism and discovered the "Berniebros" thing to be baseless propaganda, which is all it is. There may be some jerks that say they support him, whether they do or not, who knows, but that's the case with all the candidates. You think, with as well as Clinton did in the South, that there weren't some racists supporting her, at least here and there?

To also claim that he didn't care about social issues is a lie, no other way of putting it. There is no difference between them on abortion, and he has at least as good of a record on marriage equality. He focused on economic issues and issues of institutional power, but that also impacts women. Hillary Clinton supported her husbands "welfare reforms", which completely devastated poor women and poor mothers. She actually called poor mothers on welfare "deadbeats", odd language for a feminist. There are actual feminist economists that don't, like Clinton, largely ignore poor women, and they've shown that the work of mothers at home (which is unpaid) would add at least 16% to GDP if it were given a market value. Yet, the bourgeois feminist Clinton called those women deadbeats and supported those right wing attacks against poor women and the services they depended on. Sanders is not only as progressive as she is on those issues, the economic issues he focuses on would massively benefit poor women and mothers.

[MFM008]

87. oh please

[GRhodes]

106. Well said

that emoji says it all. LOL!

[Tortmaster]

94. There's a video of a Sanders ...

... interview from 2013 in which he explicitly guts social issues in favor of only economic issues. Those are his own words. That is his dogma. You can find the interview with MSNBC's Ed Schultz at thedailybanter here:


http://thedailybanter.com/2016/05/the-truth-about-bernie-sanders-and-social-justice-in-his-own-words/

It clarifies everything I (and many others) suspected for months. It is all lip service from Senator Sanders when it comes to social issues.

You can give every African-American and LGBT person in the country a million dollars today, and you would still have racism and bigotry tomorrow. Maybe more.

[GRhodes]

107. So let me get this straight

the person we see videos of getting arrested fighting against segregation in public housing and schools in Chicago, the person that marched on Washington with King while Hillary was a Goldwater girl, he's the person that doesn't get it. Hillary, on the other hand, was using right wing framing within the last few decades, calling black men superpreditors and backed social programs that have decimated the poor, poor women and mothers in particular, she and her husband pushed for harsh sentencing laws while pushing for prison privatization, she's the one to talk about issues impacting African Americans?

Do you realize that economics and class was at the very heart of the Civil Rights movement? This isn't arguable, at all. Look at everything SNCC did, what King said, class, economics was at the heart of everything they did. What was the March on Washington called? Why was King in Memphis when he was shot? What was he planning at the time of his assassination? What did he say about class and economics in his Riverside Church speech, when he strongly spoke out against the war in Vietnam, about class, economics, and poverty?

It's true that economic issues alone cannot bring about social justice. It's another thing entirely to argue, which you essentially do, that you can have social justice without addressing poverty and economic inequality. It isn't possible, and the Civil Rights movement realized this decades ago.

I am so sick of these out of touch, bourgeois arguments. It often comes from people that don't have to worry about things like health care and don't have to worry about feeding their children, so they place no value on those things or the people that struggle with those things, and often die far too young because they lack those things. When Bill Clinton cut social programs that poor women depended on, he was essentially saying that his government placed a lower value on the work that mothers, in particular poor mothers, did at home with their children. Please take a look at the data on extreme poverty since those reforms.

[Amaril]

123. THAT wasn't misogyny

You know what does smack of misogyny? Demanding that people treat Clinton differently -- i.e., not voice their objections to her policy and/or persona -- than any other candidate because she is a woman.

[Fawke Em]

102. Since I'm a woman and a feminist, not a bit.

Her voice hurts my ears. It's a fact.

Gilbert Godfrey's voice also hurts my ears.

It has nothing to do with gender. They both have shrill voices that hit a nerve in my ear canal.

[CorkySt.Clair]

125. So you were counting on Bernie writing off your loans?

[GRhodes]

149. Nope

I was counting on him fighting so that others aren't in the same position I am in. Maybe, if we fight for structural changes like the ones he is trying to address (and more), my sons and their generation won't be in the same position I am in. My father's generation was handed a country in far better shape than the one he has handed over to my generation, across the board. Everything got worse under his generation's watch economically, environmentally, and with infrastructure. I'd like to do better for my sons, but won't if corrupt candidates like Clinton continue to get elected, and if we don't radically change policies that have failed most people.

Nice picture of Brock there too, what an immoral rat he is.

[One Black Sheep]

48. Whoa - way, way too many assumptions,

but enjoy your sycophantic fantasy...psst, try reading the OP, for one clue.

[ChiciB1]

55. YOU Need To Pick Up Thomas Franks's New Book Called

"Listen Liberal!" You might find that what you've been supporting from Clinton & now Obama ISN'T ACTUALLY what you bought into.

Just finished reading it and NOW more than ever Democrats need to find out exactly how BOTH OF THEM have opted for Silicon Valley, Wall Street types who need to run the country!

BOTH of them have the same ideology that actually has pushed the middle class much lower than you think!

Not trying to upset you, but the "FACTS" in that book SHOULD wake you up and help you clearly see what they opted for as opposed to helping "we the people!" The Obama Administration is explained in a way I doubt very few here will recognize!

A FANTASTIC BOOK for those with "inquiring minds!" I feel so cheated right now. But, the book really makes WAY TOO MUCH sense to ignore!

[Agony]

64. I just finished reading it as well and I concur with everything you said… the truth does hurt

in this case. Thanks for weighing in… i was wondering how others were taking - listen liberal.

presumptuous of me but you might like:

Nomi Prins "it takes a pillage" and
Stiglitz "The great divide"
since listen liberal caught your attention.

Cheers
Agony

[ChiciB1]

136. Thanks For Suggestions... I Live In Florida & Heard About A New

book written by George Mallinckrodt entitled "Getting Away With Murder" a true story written by a Psychotherapist who worked in the psychiatric ward at Miami-Dade County. It's a true story of how the guards subject inmates to abuse & do all manner of devious illegal things to very sick inmates.

It's almost too much to take in and KNOW that TPTB in ALL walks of life view "we the people" as simply their pawns to dance their dances BECAUSE THEY control this country when they find a way to infiltrate our daily lives.

Thomas Frank's book is more than an eye-opener EVEN when we think we KNOW a certain reality. Each of these books SHOULD be read, but to so many Hillary supporters here, Franks' book detailed very clearly how insidious the DLC/Third Way Democrats have ruined The Democratic Party.

I've known and seen what The Clintons have been able to do, but OBAMA seems to have taken these policies and put them on steroids. Not sure I can put into words my reaction other than to say that THIS book he's written SHOULD be read right away before Hillary actually takes the throne.

I can only fight hard against what too many Americans have accepted as THE NEW NORMAL! Those of us who were to be part of some sort of "trickle down" economy have been PISSED ON ROYALLY and not only by Repubs, but by our own Dems.! THIS DEMOCRATIC PARTY, save some groups is but a facade of what a anyone knows.

I was simply amazed by how clearly he wrote about what Obama "could have done" but decided NOT TO! Thanks for the additional suggestions.

[Tortmaster]

67. Hahahaha!

I'm sorry, but that's one of the reasons Senator Sanders lost so badly--running away from a truly remarkable President with a long list of historic accomplishments. A President who beat back--in record time--the worst depression since the Great One, and who necessarily had to prop up the banks. You could very well be in a breadline right now but for President Obama's actions, including those involved with saving the automotive and automotive parts industries.
Besides, the United States got the money back with interest and got Dodd-Frank, to boot.
If we had listened to you, Senator Sanders or Thomas Frank we'd be well and truly fucked right now. I'm going to suggest that you read The New York Daily News editorial board interview of Senator Sanders, judging his knowledge of banks, the economy, and banking regulations, and when you're done with that, I suggest that you re-watch the George W. Bush press conference announcing the financial collapse. The gravity of that situation might sink in as you watch how bloody fucking scared he is.

[Tortmaster]

68. Anybody suggesting that ...

... we diddle around while a Great Depression is on the immediate event horizon is suggesting madness in my opinion. And the people who would've been screwed the most are the poorest among us.

[ChiciB1]

139. Well, Keep Your Blinders On, It's Apparent You Don't Have A Clue... n/t

[eridani]

86. Only those in privilege bubbles seem not to realize that there has been no recovery--

--for 80% of the population.

[Tortmaster]

88. Nothing says privilege ...

... quite like 51,000 posts on a political blog.

The automotive industry is strong as it's been in decades, and not dead like Senator Sanders seemed to want. The housing market that had collapsed to nothing is almost back. More consecutive months of job gains than ever in modern history. Gas prices at an all-time low in today's dollars, and Dodd-Frank to regulate the banks.

From his starting point, which included the Great Recession, two wars, and absolute obstruction from Republicans, President Obama has worked magic.

Watch Senator Sanders interview with the editorial board of The New York Daily News. It was a fucking disaster. He has sued or threatened to sue the DNC more times in the last six months than he has drafted campaign finance reform bills in the last fifteen years. The Senator is a mile loud and an inch deep. Democrats need intelligent leadership and not an empty suit.

Part of that includes the ability to make a realistic evaluation of the situation--including when we are on the precipice of a global recession--and then providing plausible plans on moving forward. Hate is not a plan.

[eridani]

91. OK, just fuck the 80% who have benefitted from none of this.

Fuck people on minimum wage who would have to work 112 hrs a week to afford an apartment. Sanders has the best favorability rating of any of the candidates. Clinton's is almost as bad as Trump's. Clinton wants campaign finance reform? With all the banksters who are buying her?

BTW, over 13 years, 51K posts equals about 5 a day.

[Tortmaster]

93. No. Don't fuck them.

Offer them detailed plans as well as the means to accomplish it. Senator Sanders and you are forgetting that.

You're forgetting that President Obama started out with two wars and a Great Recession and had a filibuster-proof Senate for less than two years.

And you are forgetting that we share a country with Republicans.

For example, when asked how he would implement his education goals during a live interview, Senator Sanders said that he would have a "million" or so "young people" march on Washington, D.C.

Republicans would laugh at that even if it miraculously materialized.

[eridani]

148. Sanders has already raised large sums of money for progressive candidates

If you have zero vision of where you want to be, what does it matter about incremental steps to get there? No vision = no inspiration = low voter turnout.

[larkrake]

141. Your view is seriously skewed, but you are entitled to it

Obama has worked miracles, he is the best Pres I have ever experienced, but his support lately of trade deals-giving more power to corps is a fly swatter, it undoes his accomplishments. The way Sanders has run his campaign shows us he is really quite capable of finding ways in the fog of obstructionism. When a reporter asks really stupid questions, I dont blame the interviewee, I fault the interviewer. He sued the DNC rightfully protecting his campaign and movement, it is the way things are done in politics. DWS still needs to answer to her continual bushwacking of Bernies legal rights.

His criticism of Israel is well founded- they have become the 2nd biggest bully in the world and steal land from an impoverished, tortured people

[KoKo]

109. Yes...it's well worth the read..!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

77. wow. that's better than helping us survive?

[Scootaloo]

112. I dunno, I've seen a lot of frenzies

And pardon me, but I'm more worried about the state of the nation under whoever holds the next four to eight years, thna I am about a party I'm not attending.

[larkrake]

140. We are all stuck in the mud

just fight state battles, the national candidates are bought, and the Partys self destructive

[bjo59]

33. Once the TPP, TTIP, and TISA are passed, Americans will realize that this election was the last

chance they had to make some headway in changing the system that makes us feel so frustrated and helpless. We're quickly approaching the day when voting will be a mere piece of cheap theater and everyone will know it.

[Left Brain]

37. Bingo

And we all lose

[Nyan]

56. That's very true.

I would also add that the only president who will protect net neutrality is president Sanders.

It's not just going to be voting. We simply won't have a voice anymore.
Once the net neutrality is destroyed, it's just going to be the pundits on TV that will have a voice.
MSNBC-Comcast is determined to destroy net neutrality. They've already lobbied Obama hard, and they're almost there.

[LWolf]

96. I've thought it was

a piece of cheap theater for a long time now; this primary has confirmed that, and feels like the final nail in the coffin.

[Doctor_J]

119. Many Americans WON'T realize it, unfortunately

The hrc group, for example

[larkrake]

142. Are you sure it isnt cheap theater already? I doubt our votes are counted

Ever since machines tally our votes, there has been monkey business. I pretty much accept that a handful of CEOs decide the outcome of presidents. They gave Obama the win because the country was bankrupt and they wanted the blame on a dem and a black man. Republicans always destroy the country then let the Democrats fix it.

We have recovered a little, but there is a limit to recovery and we are facing another downturn . Banks are again selling blocks of bad loans, they are bigger than they were in '08. the rich are banking off shore in droves and soon the rats will be leaving the ship

[tonyt53]

34. When polls are taken, such as this one, they do not calculate in how each state will vote

Take the poll a bit further and go to reliably Dem and reliably GOP state, then move to the battleground states. You get a much different picture then.

[Fawke Em]

40. I fit this description.

Hillary is a bridge too far.

I've voted for the Democratic nominee every four years for 28 years and I've shook my head at the party's rightward shift. At least I thought Gore and Kerry were decent people, but Hillary Clinton is a corrupt war hawk who is probably a criminal. I'm out if she's the nominee.

[marlakay]

44. I went out canvassing yesterday

I am in Northern CA so most voting for Bernie but when talked about general people didn't like either Hillary or Trump, I got the feeling a lot of people will stay home.

Me, I may get in trouble with this site for saying so but I finally have had it with this party, they have left me, too corporate and too much for the money folks.

I was raised by Kennedy dems where even though they were rich they were all about helping the little guy.

I am leaving the party after the primary. If thats a problem here I will leave here too.

Been voting dem since Carter....

[Fawke Em]

50. I keep wondering if we'll be allowed back when she has to step down to take

care of her "legal issues."

[larkrake]

143. Shouldnt be a problem here, you are a true Democrat at heart

Me too, I will go Indy, even if Bernie wins, because the Party has left me.

[merrily]

54. They don't seem to get that 2016 is not 2008 and Hillary is not Obama

Not every supporter of Sanders is a Bernie or Buster, though. Hard to quantify, even with polls. I think some people won't really know until they pull the lever or fill out the ballot in November.

[Armstead]

65. There;'s been a disconnect for a long time

Occasionally something dispels it temporarily, like the election of Obama...But inevitably the Big Money, Big Power crowd turn backl the screws and we go back into the same straight jacket.

This election is a perfect example. Clinton is the epitomie of what is wrong -- and Trump is the epitomie of what's worse -- and we're abopiut to go through the same cycle again.

[Paulie]

71. They can go pound sand. Don't need any of them.

Or so I've been reading here for the last 10 months.

[emsimon33]

82. This is the election where we discovered that we are no better than the Republicans.

We were blind to how our Party manipulated the primary process and then in this primary they went full Republican: Suppression, cheating, buying politicians, pandering to Wall Street and billionaires--the full Republican.

Congratulations: It is not just the Republican Party that is imploding, so is the Democratic.

[senz]

90. The malaise of the American voter comes from too much money in the electoral process

which, in turn, reflects the corporate takeover of our politicians and media.

Money has hijacked America's democracy; the people have been pushed to the side. They don't have the deciding voice nor even much influence. They can feel their own powerlessness, how much they do not count. So of course they are alienated.

We really must do something about it. Bernie Sanders wants to get money out of campaigning, out of politics, and put the people back in charge. Bernie is the only candidate who wants to address the problem and he has a well thought-out proposal for how to do it.

[progressoid]

92. Buncha no good, entitled, whiners if you ask me.

Suck it up and love the party no matter what!!1!













just in case...

[Herman4747]

97. Well, how would YOU feel if your choice is between these two?

[Bucky]

100. Honestly, I thought "Bernie or Bust" was a misogynist way of saying you'd support the nominee

[Fawke Em]

104. LOL. Took me a minute, but I got it.

[beachbum bob]

101. i am not corporate democrat and neither are the majority of those who reject sanders

we just know sanders is not a leader capable of leading and contending with what needs to be done.....the 24/7 news is a way to disenfranchise american voters into apathy


works pretty darn well

[Lodestar]

110. I think we need a NEW new deal. I think we all need to write a platform for our

country that reflects our changed values and goals, our immediate and urgent concerns and priorities
as well as farsighted objectives.

[TheFarseer]

116. Count me in that group

No matter who we elect the rich get richer we're still at war and more jobs fly overseas

[libodem]

118. More like

Coup d'etat.

[sellitman]

121. After my primary I left the party

I'll hold my nose and vote Clinton but the party can go screw.

[TheKentuckian]

128. Honestly, to them this is the very best of both worlds. You take away any influence internally while

being a lock in the general.

They don't want our input but they do want compliance and this path gives them both desired outcomes from their point of view.

[w4rma]

153. Yup. That's EXACTLY what they want. Apathy in the primaries. Obedience in the general. (nt)

[sellitman]

161. Primary?

Did you you think your vote really counted? The pre-ordained pick was in the bag no matter the amounts of warts on her history. The Primary was and is a farce

[w4rma]

163. In the states with fair primaries, we won. In the states with corrupt primaries, we "lost". (nt)

[RKP5637]

126. I left! I'm fed up with the new democratic party. Now, I'm Unaffiliated/Independent. They left me,

so I left them.

[w4rma]

154. I don't care what you call yourself, as long as you vote in the Democratic primaries. (nt)

[RKP5637]

158. Yep, I definitely do. I'm still a democrat!!! n/t

[VulgarPoet]

131. Count me among that number.

They've forced the second coming of Nixon on us, and I was considering re-registering as a Democrat... But no. I'm staying Independent, might go Green, all I know is that unless the Democratic Party starts showing itself to be genuinely progressive, instead of offering token scraps to public uproars and being the recalcitrant catamite for corporate oligarchs, they can go perform anatomically impossible lewd acts with a brick.

[vintx]

132. K&R!

[Vinca]

134. That's pretty much how I feel because I fear our choice is going to elect "The Donald."

If she's indicted it's a done deal. Measure the Oval for the gold lame Trump curtains.

[Attorney in Texas]

144. I'm pretty much done with the party on a national level, but I'm still in love with the local party!

DWS has persuaded me that there is no room for people like me at the DNC.

That vision of the party tells me that I'm probably better off in the Green Party instead of the Democratic Party I have supported my whole life, but then I look at our strong Democrats running locally and running for Senate in Wisconsin, New Hampshire and elsewhere, and I think "I still like our candidates, I just cannot tolerate our party - what does that say about the DNC?"

[cheapdate]

151. Not me. It's a big, contentious, and sometimes messy process

trying to get roughly 60 million people to agree.

[leveymg]

157. These Dem. voters aren't going to show up in Nov. The indys will

determine the outcome, and most of them fear and loath Hillary. There's a really great reason to gather around her and make sure she's the candidate. Not.

[Betty Karlson]

159. Don't worry, from June 16th, Skinner will personally censor any such disconnection.

All praise the Lady of Inevitability! Disregard reality; we all know that rality has a well-know liberal bias.

[Uncle Joe]

160. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, brentspeak.