2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumMath - Hillary will have a heck of a time winning the required PD#
And so, July is what everyone should be looking towards. What is the best scenario to beat Trump? Polls now are too early, but there is a whole other month and worlds of possibilities.
No one should get too comfortable.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Demsrule86
(68,543 posts)There is no specific number she needs to win...just a majority and supers counts...oh noes....she needs 73 now ...probably around 30 by the time Jersey and California vote...she will be the presumptive nominee before California comes in ...after Jersey. Bernie gets out sometime between then and DC...read about Obama in 2008 ...then you might understand.
eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)God forbid they should be out spreading more of those Sanders promises-with-no-workable-plans.
Demsrule86
(68,543 posts)Things are nuts here.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)But the rules state one must have a super majority of PD's to win the nomination.
The end of the voting comes at the convention and not a day before. Looks like Bernie may not win until the convention votes end the primary.
We can wait. Not a problem.
Renew Deal
(81,855 posts)And why is Bernie telling Hillary how to pick a VP if he expects to be the nominee?
onenote
(42,690 posts)Last edited Mon May 30, 2016, 09:24 AM - Edit history (1)
The only rule is that to get the nomination a candidate must have the support of 2383 delegates out of the combined total of 4765 pledged and superdelegates.
Thus, as a theoretical matter, a candidate could get the nomination with as few as 41 percent of the pledged delegates if every super delegate supported that candidate.
In reality, of course, it doesn't work that way. In reality, if a candidate wins a simple majority of the pledged debates (2026) it is a virtual certainty that candidate will also have the support of at least 357 super delegates (less than half the total number of super delegates). And that candidate will have neither a super majority of pledged nor a super majority of the supers, but they will be the nominee.
Don't know where you came up with notion that there is a "rule" requiring a supermajority of anything.
BlueStateLib
(937 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)The SDs don't count until then. And not a day before.
They can change their minds at the last minute and that minute is just before the convention takes the vote.
So we have 50 some odd days to help them change their minds.
mythology
(9,527 posts)There is no valid scenario in which the super delegates will switch as a group to the candidate who is badly behind in the pledged delegate count. Your argument is pointless semantics.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Renew Deal
(81,855 posts)Better luck next week.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)The superdelegates will follow. The only way they wouldn't follow is if she got fewer - their purpose is to stack the deck for more establishment candidates, and she's the establishment candidate. They could help her, but they won't hurt her.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Is that a thing? Hide for meta hijack?
onenote
(42,690 posts)The answer of course is that there is no required number of PDs. The only "required" number is 2383 delegates out of the combined total of 4765 pledged and superdelegates.
In theory, a candidate could get as few as 1669 (41 percent) of the pledged delegates and still win the nomination if every one of the superdelegates voted for that candidate. Indeed, this is essentially what Sanders is hoping for -- that even if he doesn't get a majority of the pledged delegates, enough superdelegates support him to get to 2383. That's a pretty sizable hurdle given the number of supers that have already committed to Clinton and the historical truth that supers don't generally change horses after they've committed.
As has been pointed out here more times than anyone could possibly count, the historical practice is that if a candidate gets to a majority of the pledged delegates and they have commitments from enough superdelegates to put them over the 1/2 of the combined total threshold, they're the winner. The vote at the convention is simply a formality to ratify what everyone knows will happen.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)There will be a presumptive, unofficial nominee on June 7, with that winner rubber stamped to make it official at the convention.
onenote
(42,690 posts)We wait for the convention to go through the formality of ratifying what everyone knows is going to be the result.
The convention is a coronation, not a contest. At least not in a situation where there are only two candidates and thus one is certain to enter the convention with a majority of the pledged delegates.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)But you are just spinning. I think most here recognize your spin.
Doesn't matter; your spin.
Bernie won't win until the convention actually, ya know, actually votes. Then, and only then, will the primary be done.
onenote
(42,690 posts)Not spinning is explaining that whichever candidate has the majority of the pledged delegates will end up being the nominee because there is no way they don't pick up the number of super delegates needed.
June 7th before California comes in...majority of pledged delegates from Jersey...she will have that...then the supers move...Bernie gets out by June 7th or the latest June 14 after DC vote.
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)That's the best bet for the next 20 years of the supreme court.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)procon
(15,805 posts)Who ever is feeding you lot this misinformation is lying. If it's coming from Sanders maybe it's for your money, or your votes, or a headcount, but whatever the reason, you're being exploited for someone else's gain with this crazy arithmetic scam.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Demsrule86
(68,543 posts)pledged delegates...she doesn't need to have a certain number of pledged delegates...just a majority and then the supers comitt...as they did for Obama ...and it is over.
procon
(15,805 posts)You people thought that meant he was endorsing Sanders crazy count-only-the-pledged-delegates because that way you get to pretend Sanders wins because he doesn't want to count the SDs. Its the nuttiest thing I've ever heard of.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)When a candidate has a majority of pledged delegates, super delegates, and total delegates, in technical terms that means she fucking won and is the presumptive nominee.
No one will claim otherwise. Sanders will be a bigger joke than Trump if he denies that Clinton has won at that point.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)as in 'unpledged' and votes not valid till the convention. Read my OP again, and put something nice in a pipe. Everyone has got to chill a bit!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Doesn't change the fact that we will have our winner on June 7, and the only question after that is how the ceremony in July will go.
On June 7 Hilllary will be the winner and Bernie will have lost.
Demsrule86
(68,543 posts)And Bernie won't mark my words. They commit.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)procon
(15,805 posts)If they are committed now, they will still be committed at the convention.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Stop being so mean! No one here wants Trump to win. Just get real and everyone will do the right thing. And cats don't generally smother newborns, and you can really eat a peck of earth before you die
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)Bye Bernie
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)floppyboo
(2,461 posts)running to Bush, the facts are, establishment disaffected Republicans with wallets to sway are a better bet at this point than independents. Pretty sad, but true.
I don't like this at all! But its your vote. Your vision.
brooklynite
(94,495 posts)We know that neither candidate will get enough pledged delegates to win the nomination, so Superdelegates come into play. Clinton will have more than enough, and Sanders won't have a convincing argument to get them to change. And his hostility to everyone in the Party leadership won't help matters.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)No one is challenging these rules. So, 'heel thyself'!
Demsrule86
(68,543 posts)We have catered to Bernie long enough...we are not starting the general with way less than six months...Bernie can take his 'sad ' and go home.