What the fuck are you people thinking?

[hootinholler]

By you people I mean all of the allegedly smart people at the DNC, the State parties, the Superdelegates, and members of the Brock Brigade.

How can you so fucking enthusiastically nominate a candidate that doesn't have a little luggage, but a whole fucking train that would give a skycap an erection thinking about the charges.

Yeah sure she is tough and can withstand 12 hours in front of a committee, but you and I know that the republican trophy hunters won't leave your candidate alone, not for a second. So when exactly will your candidate have the fucking time to accomplish anything? I mean seriously the time and staffing requirements would be fucking immense.

I can understand the fuck them attitude, I have a case of it myself. But still, when you have an alternative who will bring hundreds of thousands of energized people with fresh ideas and ideals into the party, compared to the inevitable train wreck of investigation after investigation over made up shit from fucking drudge or whoever else is subverting discourse this time. Why is this choice not a no brainer? Seriously.

When you add to that a fucking anvilhead cumulus hovering over the Hoover Building ready to spin off a political tornado the likes of which could land poor Dorothy in the Federal munchkinland in Kansas.

Really? You don't think that will happen?

Don't forget that she laid bare to governments and pissant crackers alike a significant portion of the communications of the U.S. Secretary of State. Stop and soak that shit in for a minute. She will see charges because you don't fuck over the intel community. Putting that shit out there fucks over the intel community. Big Time.

So please, explain why nominating Hillary is a good idea.

[boston bean]

1. Just deal. Hillary is the nominee.

[hootinholler]

4. Oh I disagree with you on that.

Care to answer?

[boston bean]

7. I did answer.

[hootinholler]

20. Technically that was a reply

It was devoid of any answer to questions posed.

Surely you can think of at least one good reason that Hillary is a better choice than Bernie. I was under the impression that you are an enthusiastic Hillary supporter.

[boston bean]

23. She beat him in the primaries. Good enough reason for me. How bout you?

[Shadowflash]

33. Really?

When was that?

I must have missed the part where she had won enough pledged delegates to win the nomination.

[leveymg]

41. You don't see the bigger picture. HRC won't be the candidate because

the party leadership realized in March 2015 that she had effectively made herself unviable as candidate. But she has a huge organization which needed to be preserved so they let her play out this Kabuki Theatre. But we've now come to the last Act. Time for her to exit the stage so her successor can start the campaign in earnest.

Sorry if this is upsetting news, but that's how this is playing out.

[boston bean]

46. I see reality. Hillary is the nominee. Bernie has lost.

[leveymg]

53. No, she's not. Not until the Convention nominates her. It won't

Because by then she will have released her delegates. How that gets sorted out is largely up to Barney Frank and the Rules Committee, which can do pretty much what they will. They aren't stupid enough to let her run as an unindicted co-conspirator.

[boston bean]

59. Yeah she is. Bernie cannot win. Get with it.

[gravityspy]

62. Oh, change is in the air. You can feel it!

[leveymg]

68. I said Barney Frank not Bernie Sanders will make the rules.

at the Convention. That's not necessarily a good thing. The outcome for Hillary Clinton was foreordained when it was revealed in March 2015 that she was running classified materials across a noncertified server and a number had been hacked by a Romanian who had sold them to Russia.

[SCantiGOP]

188. Hillary won but Bernie won't quit

Any other outlook is pure delusion.

[leveymg]

189. Do you really think that the DOS and Intel Community IGs/FBI Director are working for Bernie?

Do you really think the Democratic Party should still allow HRC to capture the nomination if it's confirmed that Hillary violated her security clearance, as it surely will be in the IC and FBI reports? Do you think the party leadership hasn't done succession planning, and can't you tell that's already in process?

[SCantiGOP]

191. Like I said, pure delusion

N/T, and no further participation in this ridiculous thread.

[leveymg]

193. You weren't paying attention, anyway. nt

A lot of folks are still in pure denial.

[antigop]

230. so is that why Bernie is demanding that Barney Frank be removed? nt

[riversedge]

177. On June 7, Hillary will be the presumptive nominee for the Dem. Party--and yes, it is at

the Dem Convention when her name is put into nomination that it will be official.


Like Trump--yesterday he became the presumptive nominee for the Repup Party when he met the goal in his delegates.

[leveymg]

190. She's presumed innocent, too. But, that doesn't mean she won't be replaced as nominee.

Give it another week or two, and it will become much clearer to you what's going on.

[Android3.14]

73. I saw what you did there

Is there a word for people who won't confront the issues, a person who turns away from any substantive challenge?

I bet there is.

[merrily]

133. False, but that is not the reason you are a Hillary supporter anyway.

[boston bean]

135. Right, but what does that have to do with the delusional thinking Bernie will be the nominee.

[merrily]

179. If it's delusional, why get exercised about it?

[fun n serious]

25. Bernie is not the better candidate, if he was he would be winning.

Hillary is ready for the WH on day 1. She is brilliant, a genius and works hard... These are things I personally do not see in Bernie. Get behind Hillary! She will be our nominee and won't disappoint you.

[AgingAmerican]

56. By that 'logic' GW Bush was a good president because he won

[fun n serious]

63. So you want to "appoint" Bernie and accuse Establishment of " rigged" ???????

[AgingAmerican]

75. By your logic

Hitler was a good leader because he won an election

[leftynyc]

101. American Presidents

aren't elected with 30% of the vote like hitler was. Our system prevents that as, even with more than two people running, it's unlikely they would get 270 electoral votes.

[islandmkl]

112. some American Presidents have been elected with..what...like 42% of the vote?

oops....43%

[leftynyc]

130. That's not 30%

is it? Clinton also got 370 electoral votes - 100 more than he needed to win.

[islandmkl]

138. yeah...those electoral votes...which actually determine the outcome...

reflect how/what in terms of 58% of the voting electorate having voted for the opposition?...sorry, folks, you just live in the wrong states....

and people wonder why so many are disillusioned with our 'democracy'

[SmittynMo]

128. 30%? Guess again

Pledged delegates - Bernie has 46%. That's all that matter at this time.

[leftynyc]

131. That he has less than Clinton?

Yes, I agree that's what's important. What that has to do with my post is anyone's guess.

[pangaia]

65. LOL !!!!!!!!!!

So was reagan, and Bush the elder, and on and on....

[Shadowflash]

116. Haha!

And, apparently Trump is the best and most qualified Republican to be president because he won his primary.

[Hortensis]

115. Of 20 candidates who began, only one is

head and shoulders over the rest in the popular vote but, notably, the choice of a broad, diverse spectrum of Americans.

Hillary Clinton. We should be proud of her enemies, because they are the kind of people one should be ashamed to ally with.

Not just the greedy wealthy and their legions working so hard to continue the transfer of our wealth and power to them. Also those people who repay the right's 25-year estimated 2-billion-dollar investment in destroying Hillary Clinton by eagerly gulping the unending Kool-Aid.

But, they've always failed because the real enemy they're trying to take down is the American people. And that's quite a big job, though they came very close. We will make sure they fail again, this time cripplingly, because we have to. And then we're going to take them down.


I like this picture because it shows her for the tough, battle-scared warrior she is.

[PJMcK]

153. Well said (n/t)

[Raastan]

195. Bravo

[SheilaT]

6. Wait?? Did I miss something?

What's today's date?

Oh. It's still only May 26. Still a few more primaries to go, including the one in my own state.

She's not yet the nominee. And she shouldn't be the nominee.

[fun n serious]

26. There is no way she won't be.

Sorry. More people chose her than your guy.

[SheilaT]

35. With what's blowing up right now over her emails

you might want to reconsider.

Or face the possibility of a nominee who is totally discredited because of actions taken when Secretary of State. Think about that for a bit. She's supposed to be so experienced, so pragmatic, so much better than her opponent, and she did what? And it's not as though she wasn't told not to do it. And it's not as though she hasn't lied, delayed, and obfuscated for how long now?

Not someone I want to see in the White House.

And she STILL hasn't sealed the deal, which is pretty incredible, considering that back in January we were told that Bernie would at best win one primary, New Hampshire, and maybe not even that one.

[840high]

90. With all that's being

exposed - she's looking pretty shabby.

[dchill]

9. Just deal. Hillary is the indictee.

Fixed!

[Bob-o the Clown]

222. Thread win!

[sheshe2]

18. Yup~

[840high]

88. That's your answer for

voting for someone who lies?

[John Poet]

117. We're STILL a long way from Philadelphia....

How suicidal are the super-delegates, anyway?

[SylviaD]

127. hear hear! It's time for Bernie's supporters to stop hurling bricks. nt

[Jester Messiah]

150. Why, is there something heavier available?

We're not going to stop fighting until after the convention. Maybe not even then.

[SylviaD]

231. If that's true you will be accomplishing nothing but helping Donald Trump. nt

[Jester Messiah]

147. Good news for Trump if that's so. n/t

[lagomorph777]

163. That imperious crap is alienating California voters, and boy are you going to need them now.

She is toast. It's over. Get your head out of the sand.

[rhett o rick]

187. The arrogance and hubris will be the downfall of the Elite Corporatists running our Party.

We the People will fight until the Big Money Fat Cats that you seem to side with are out of our government.

[Skink]

2. Closed primaries have that effect

Says we don't need to try and build the party.

[uponit7771]

8. We can build the part democratically no? tia

[Shadowflash]

37. You are correct

Too bad for HRC that the GE won't be closed as well.

[mythology]

67. Sigh, this stupid inaccurate talking point needs to die

But here I'll explain it again for the umteenth time.

Clinton has won the following open primaries:

South Carolina, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, Mississippi, Illinois, Missouri, Ohio.

Sanders has won the following open primaries:

Vermont, Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana.

Which one of those lists is longer? Sanders wins caucuses where far fewer people are able to vote. He loses primaries regardless of if they are closed or open. The claim that he would win if only the primaries were open is just blatantly false.

Here I'll even throw in the closed primaries that Sanders as won:

New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Democrats Abroad, Rhode Island, West Virginia, Oregon.

Clinton has won more open primaries than Sanders has won both open and closed primaries put together. Please quit repeating the obviously false claim that Sanders would be winning if only more of the primaries were open. Sanders mostly wins low turnout caucuses where far fewer people vote.

[Skink]

76. She did win the confederacy

No argument there.

[barrow-wight]

92. That is some serious race baiting.

Look it up. The confederacy hasn't existed since the 1860's. What you're doing here is toxic.

[forjusticethunders]

162. I guess Oklahoma, Nebraska,Alaska, West Virginia, Utah, Kansas, Wyoming, and Idaho don't count then.

Oh right, those states are full of white Bernie voters so they do count. Bernie's wouldn't carry those states in the GE either. Also I guess the swing states like VA, Florida and Ohio don't count? Not to mention NC and GA are in play where Hillary won big too.

[cherokeeprogressive]

171. !

Hillary supporters are race-baiters like no one's business. They're masters at race-baiting.

[barrow-wight]

216. I'm sorry but

You lose the moral high ground when you attempt to obscure the valid votes of African Americans in the south by referring to their homes as "the confederacy." That kind of code (if it's even subtle enough to be called "code) is utterly despicable.

[cherokeeprogressive]

217. Yeah I'm sorry too but I will stand by what I posted.

Master race-baiters.

[barrow-wight]

226. That is your choice.

I choose to call it like I see it.

[uponit7771]

3. Sigh, is whining part of the bargaining stage or the anger stage? thx in advance

[Andy823]

5. Well maybe

Because she is winning the primary, and the people have given her more votes?

We do live in a democracy you know, that the people are voting for her over Bernie. You really need to get used to that. I have alway said I will vote for the nominee, no matter who that is because we can't afford Trump in the WH. The people have spoken, and she is who they want.

[Art_from_Ark]

15. And people gave Nixon more votes in 1972

even though Watergate had been in the news for a few months.

Some people see a train wreck coming from a mile away and try to stop it. Others rev up the throttle and go full speed ahead.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Nixon won by a landslide in 1972

[chervilant]

180. The massive crowds

at Bernie's rallies, the repeated results of the polls, his highly successful fund raising, and his ubiquity on social media belie Hi11ary's claim that she has received "more votes." Given all her other lies -- and the relentless voter/election fraud -- I find this claim of "more votes" both specious and irrelevant.

Furthermore, I find it deeply distressing that the Democratic Party is supporting a candidate whose popularity is in the toilet, and who's being investigated by the FBI. MOST distressing.

[Raastan]

197. That is all a facade

The same groups of people were bused to the rallies, he has yet to disclose where all his funds come from despite FEC requests, and social media represents a very small percentage of the population. Bernie has created an illusion of success.
HRC has been the most admired woman for about the past 20 years, according to Gallup.
Please stop using Republican talking points to make your false claims.

[chervilant]

234. Wow...

Is this the standard text?

You are my latest addition to my IL, because your "talking points" are disingenuous and insupportable. Buh-bye.

[KingFlorez]

10. More people voted for her

[Arazi]

11. Bernie brings in millions of new energized voters

But carry on

Righteous rant

[hack89]

48. Where were they in the primaries?

why is he getting his ass kicked in the popular vote?

[Vincardog]

89. In the closed primaries HRC "WON" or the open ones Bernie kicked ass in? The fools who brag

On Her vote advantage ignore a few states, at their own peril.

[lancer78]

98. Hillary won more open

primaries then Bernie. Sorry.

[hack89]

143. Hillary won more open primaries then Bernie . Nt

[TwilightZone]

184. Clinton has won more open primaries.

Stop being intentionally obtuse. You're not fooling anyone.

[bvf]

104. If you want to see an ass-kicking in the popular vote

just keep hoping Clinton makes it to the GE.

There aren't nearly enough Bush/Hillary supporters to prevent the catastrophe Trump will visit upon her (and us).

If that worries you now, you should have thought it out months ago, when it was already clear to anyone with eyes.

[hack89]

144. So your solution is to ignore the voters and just hand the nomination to Bernie?

That's what you really want, correct?

[bvf]

196. I didn't offer a solution.

It may be too late for one, but since you bring up the will of the voters, when were you given the opportunity to vote on the DNC's superdelegate structure?

[hack89]

211. The SD are irrelevant

They will vote for the candidate with the most pledged delegates.

[bvf]

218. And yet, there they are.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, either.

[hack89]

219. So you support ignoring the voters

and giving the nomination to the runner up? Ok.

[bvf]

220. See #196.

You've yet to address it. I can certainly understand why.

[hack89]

223. I said they are irrelevant in a two person race.

they are not the reason Hillary is winning.

[bvf]

227. Now you're just babbling.

And you also seem confused about where we are in the process. Orient yourself, and maybe we can continue.

[hack89]

228. I don't think so.

Not worth the effort. DU will soon be back to normal and we can concentrate on the GE. I have decided I am not investing any more time to discussing the primaries. They are over

[bvf]

229. No, they're not,

and my guess is that you'll break your little commitment here within the next 24 hours.

Should be fun to see.

[Bob-o the Clown]

224. Some serious questions for you

What if Clinton ends up being the runner-up in pledged delegates? What if the polls were dead wrong? What if Clinton ends up being recommended for indictment? It could happen within days.

I'm just asking for your honest opinion in case any of the three scenarios happens?

[hack89]

225. The SDs will vote for the candidate with the most pledged delegates like they did in 2008.

Not sure what you mean regarding the polls. If she is indicted than she needs to drop out.

[smiley]

12. Because they are perfectly happy with stagnant govt that only benefits the 1%.

[Juicy_Bellows]

13. They don't care.

Not sure they ever did.

[Trenzalore]

14. Is this bargaining nt?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

16. I'm thinking Hillary Clinton +3,031,245 votes

I'm thinking she has more pledged delegates and more super delegates.
I'm thinking she's won this.
I'm thinking it's ironic that so-called progressives are fixated on awarding the nomination, in a backroom deal, to an old, white male.
I'm thinking Bernie Sanders and his supporters more focused on class warfare than sound governance
I'm thinking America will not, in the end, elect a 75 year old self-proclaimed socialist.

I'm thinking you really don't care what I say, as we have very different things we want out of a Democratic nominee

[hootinholler]

44. Thanks

There's still room for the pledged count to level. I think it will be very close by the convention. She started with 400 supers before Bernie got in, so we'll see what happens.

Obviously I'm thinking she hasn't won yet.

Backroom deal? Who said anything about any backroom deal? This shit will happen in the open so everyone knows WTF is going on.

Class warfare? Yeah we plan to fight back. We also know about sound governance. That you don't know that about Bernie makes me wonder if you've been avoiding learning about him.

I wish integrity wasn't in question about the candidates. I would feel better if things work out your way.

[passiveporcupine]

55. Sorry, but the backroom deal is the one Hillary started with

I'm thinking it's ironic that so-called progressives are fixated on awarding the nomination, in a backroom deal, to an old, white male.

Yep...that backroom deal was for an old white female.

[JEB]

17. Nominating such a weak candidate is an excellent idea

if you want a President Trump.

[onecaliberal]

19. ^^That^^

[fun n serious]

29. If she is weak why couldn't Bernie beat her?

[bravenak]

34. +1

[islandmkl]

113. conversely...if she is so strong...why can't she close the deal?

[BobbyDrake]

122. The deal was "closed" back in March, actually.

The media has kept Bernie alive to take advantage of his followers for advertising pageclicks.

In fact, a lot of websites seem to be cynically catering to Sanders supporters because it's profitable in the short-term, without even realizing the long-term damage to the site's brand and reputation...

[islandmkl]

139. that's an interesting take...actually...she doesn't, and won't, have enough pledged delegates

to win the nomination outright at the convention...

superdelegates will decide...but you know that...

[BobbyDrake]

151. 2383 is half+1 of the number that includes superdelegates.

To pretend she has to reach it with pledged alone is just sad. You should market your goalpost-moving skills to the NFL.

[islandmkl]

160. SAD is not knowing how the convention actually operates...

she will get the nom, no doubt...but ONLY because of the supers and they don't vote UNTIL the convention...

unlikely as it may be, things can change before Philly...

[BobbyDrake]

173. Dream on. nt

[Jester Messiah]

152. Because she cheats. n/t

[imagine2015]

21. It's Hillary's turn and she works hard for the money.

[Miles Archer]

125. Our poitical system is not built on people getting a "turn," and...

...if you want to reduce the Presidency to a Donna Summer song, go right ahead.

[mac56]

136. Pretty sure that was meant as sarcasm.

[Hoyt]

22. Impressive people, who've accomplished a lot, have political baggage.

[JEB]

28. Well she's not responsible for as many dead people

as her mentor. But she may have some time to work on it, if the nomination goes through and she manages to out mud sling Trump.

[reddread]

31. they used to call it collateral damage

political baggage has more zing, dont you think?
catchy

[JEB]

42. Better get your kids enlisted. The ME desert soaks up a lot of blood.

[reddread]

45. finish the job we started for Saudi Arabia

[JEB]

49. Yes siree, on to Iran. Freedom's on the march.

[fun n serious]

30. That is very true.

[Arazi]

121. Obama's "political baggage"? He had a lot as the nominee? Pray tell what exactly? eom

[oberliner]

24. More people voted for her

That's how elections work.

[TeddyR]

32. I agree

But Hills' approval rating is literally the worst ever for a Dem candidate, and would be the worst for any candidate if Trump hadn't decided to run. So serious question - how did the Dems end up with a candidate who is disliked by more than 60% of the American public?

[oberliner]

38. Good question

I find it very distressing that we are going to nominate a candidate with such low approval ratings. It is unfortunate that there were not more candidates to choose from, but I think there is a reason why so few people want to put themselves through this.

[creeksneakers2]

80. No better alternative

There were only two candidates and I don't believe Bernie could win. If Bernie was the candidate they would be all over him on policy. They would run ads showing people in emergency rooms having heart attacks being told they they will have to wait nine months for an appointment. They would be all over the socialist label and show video of bread lines in Venezuela. They'd show people unable to pay the bills because of Bernie's higher taxes.

Personal baggage hurts but people can overlook it. Look at how much they've overlooked on Trump. What matters more is policy. I don't think the middle would choose Bernie's policies once they get the GOP treatment.

Imagine you are buying a car. One car is in bad mechanical condition. The other is in better mechanical condition but when you drive it it goes in the opposite direction of where you want to go. Which car would you choose?

I was hoping Joe Biden would run but he didn't.

[Bluenorthwest]

161. A car that drives in the opposite direction from the driver's controls is not in good mechanical

condition at all. That's about the worst problem a vehicle could have, it is more dangerous than a vehicle that will not start at all and just as much in need of a tow. Both cars you offer are in crappy condition.

[Agnosticsherbet]

27. Because a majority of the Democratic Party want her nominated.

[tandot]

36. Not as many people voted for your guy?

Just go ahead and call the majority of Democrats who voted for Clinton stupid ... it doesn't seem to work very well

[emsimon33]

39. Because the puppet masters don't care who the nominees are.

They only care that their puppets are in both races: Democratic and Republican.
Second: Hillary appears to attract those into the cult of personality. With Hillary, the .001%, corporations, Wall Street, etc. get another 4 to 8 years to suck America bloodless and stash their cash overseas.

[LiberalAndProud]

40. At least we can't say we didn't see it coming.

You know I agree with your assessment, hootinholler. Pop the popcorn now. The entertainment factor will be riveting as the planned itinerary occurs out of sight and out of mind. Business as usual, I should think.

[hootinholler]

102. I just wish Steven King didn't write the screenplay. n/t

[NCTraveler]

43. She will bring more clout with her than you and others give her credit for.

She has vast resources and the most coordinated and largest political network that exists in this country. She has great respect from her colleagues.

The people you are talking about coming into the party are welcome. They don't get to decide the election over a majority of the voters nor should they. They are welcome to join the party and have a voice. Join a local democratic club. Work for local democrats. Join groups that lobby and share important similarities.

On top of that I believe she has the best policy positions after O'Malley left the race.

[imagine2015]

54. And with all that clout and money she can't put away an old socialist from Vermont! LOL

Looks like this will be her second failed run for President.

[NCTraveler]

57. She has put Sanders away.

I understand you aren't aware of that.

[imagine2015]

72. Is that why she's now spending big bucks for TV ads in California? LOL

[NCTraveler]

120. She is spending big bucks to get her message out.

I don't get your thought process. Can you tell me what metric Sanders is winning?

[JudyM]

60. With far less name recognition, no connections running state primaries, no huge donors and piss-poor

mainstream media acknowledgement.

[B Calm]

123. After wading through a mile of shit from Hillary supporters, finally one gives an answer to the OP.

Don't agree, but thanks!

[w4rma]

47. Obama would have a completely scandal-free administration if not for Clinton.

Clinton should have never been let inside his administration. And it's telling that he gave her the boot and replaced her with someone who is completely the opposite of her.

[hootinholler]

51. How he deals with it will be how he is recorded in history

That hadn't occurred to me.

[Arkansas Granny]

119. Obama didn't give her the boot. Its rare for a SOS to serve longer than 4 years..

[w4rma]

210. She was booted and her replacement undid everything that she did. (nt)

[Txbluedog]

52. It's the choice of the majority of the primary voters

And the individual choices of the persons who are supers. What and who gave you the right to question their judgement. Don't like what they decided, tough put your big boy pants on and deal with it

[procon]

58. Why? Nothing would penetrate the candy shell.

Your mind is shut, and you've locked yourself into a box, so thoroughly shielded by armored defences, there no point. Look how you present yourself, throwing out f-bombs, name calling, obnoxious labels, and that's even befor you start making demands.

This is how your revolution ends: the starry eyed idealism has failed, the optimism has turned into bitter recriminations, and here you are demanding that everyone owes you an explanation why the grand idea fell apart. But here's the thing, no one can ever give you what you think you want.

[GreatGazoo]

61. the alarms are sounding

as the real dynamics of a Hillary vs Trump race are emerging:

...This is a problem not just because it decreases public trust; it also treats voters like they must be incredibly stupid. It’s brazenly insulting to people’s intelligence to simply deny that a report says what it says. And because people are more intelligent than that, they don’t like it when you try to pull tricks like this.

That fatal flaw means that Clinton is in terrible trouble. As this publication has explained in detail before, Clinton suffers from the fact that her weaknesses are those that Donald Trump is well-positioned to exploit. Trump is uniquely strong against Clinton, and Clinton is uniquely weak against Trump. One core problem is that nobody ever seems to go from disliking Clinton to liking her, while plenty of people seem to go from disliking Trump to liking Trump.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2016/05/the-democrats-are-making-a-suicidal-mistake

[fun n serious]

66. We have elections we do not "appoint"

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. I suspect all of you guys are in for a surprise

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Elite media, and in partocular Current Affairs

has been sounding these alarms for months, mostly with very aware foreign media.

[GreatGazoo]

77. yes, and now it is unfolding

we can see the water rising even as the band plays on

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. I think the deck now has a 45 degree list

[GreatGazoo]

81. maybe the band has seatbelts

seriously that Nathan Robinson piece is depressing

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. Avoid Der Spiegel. A few months ago they were alnost apocalyptic

Hell Mexican Media has been on red alert for months

[GreatGazoo]

83. what stuck with me was his idea that

Trump lies to try and make you like him but Hillary's lies are often insulting -- that's not going to win in a contest of who does America hate least

[frylock]

199. Hillary's lies are such an affront because they're so easily disproven.

She believes we are all idiots.

[GreatGazoo]

209. My sense is that the Clintons love the game aspect of politics

so isn't so much that she thinks we can't sort out what is going on, more that she and Bill actually love proving their power to themselves.

There is a story that Hillary tells about an early date with Bill. They crossed a picket line and got a favor from someone in power to go into a museum that was closed due to a Union dispute and they had the whole place to themselves and loved THAT. There is an aspect of 'we're powerful and naughty, look how much we can get away with' that they share and find romantic and intoxicating.

[PATRICK]

108. An important chunk of people mentioned in that last sentence

are the media contest promoters who will be very happy to make Trump a serious contender and whip up any illusory good will the dissatisfied electorate will misplace in Trump. It has happened with almost all GOP ham sandwiches. The media lathers on the mayo.

[GreatGazoo]

111. I think part of the appeal of the Clintons for corporations

is that they can be squeezed for deals -- pumping Trump will help them get more money out of pro Clinton superPACs and possibly deals from a future Clinton administration. Les Moonves as much as said so.

[Carolina]

126. That's a damning article, GreatGazoo

which I have now copied and sent far and wide. Thanks.

IWR sealed the deal for me. I knew I would never vote for HRC because of that vote and her speech about it. Her history since then (Honduras, Libya, Syria, corporate puppet, arms dealer, Clinton Slush Fund/Foundation) has only confirmed my disgust with her. This private server use, against policy and advice, is likely because of nefarious dealings to pad the Foundation's bottom line, to bankroll her POTUS bid and avoid scrutiny. It's positively Nixonian in its slimy corruption

[GreatGazoo]

134. It has haunted me since I read it

The Clintons may face no legal consequences for obstruction, etc. but their habit and insistence on boldly lying could easily lead us to political Armageddon if she is the nominee.

[Nye Bevan]

64. I assume "you people" also includes the primary voters in what Bernie calls the "deep South".

You certainly wouldn't be the first to produce a "you people" type screed against these folk.

[asuhornets]

69. You claim Sanders will bring many to the Democratic Party

He has not done that yet...What make you think Sanders can bring in new voters in the GE.

[LuvLoogie]

74. Needs more F bombs

[PJMcK]

156. Good point

The OP's argument might have more strength without the vulgarity. There are thousands of words in the English language to express one's point of view.

[Bluenorthwest]

165. Which is actually a misuse of language, saying 'fuck' or equating a word with a bomb?

I'd say the answer to that if fucking obvious. I live among adults and artists, not school kids and clergy. The word 'fuck' is just a word, not a bomb. I do not understand such affectations of sensitivity about words out of people are so willing to invoke images of violence. You paint a picture of explosive destruction in response to hearing the word 'fuck'. To me, that's a 'cake or death' sort of question. 'Fuck or bomb?' I go with fuck, each and every time. You go with bomb. You find that word less offensive and to me that's peculiar thinking.

[hootinholler]

172. I'm waiting for the sound of

Pearls hitting the floor after being unstrung by a hard clutching.

Fuck that.

[LuvLoogie]

182. So the OP is high art?

Like, it's not really just a self-righteous cross wrapped in a jar of piss? Or puking on a canvas?

I think I get it.

[ucrdem]

79. The enthusiasm thing really isn't happening. I got to see it with my own peepers on Tuesday:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512046962#top

[Hiraeth]

155. LOL

You really did Just self promote that crap thread. Cute.

[quickesst]

84. This is just a repeat...

... of the same old shit we have heard a thousand times, and every time it's repeated the author believes it to be some sort of revelation that will finally convince all of Hillary's supporters as to the error of their ways, then pat themselves on the back and marvel at their self-perceived ability of insight. A slight alteration of the wording is not original. It's like listening to another Bernie Sanders speech. Same old same old.

[hootinholler]

140. I'm not out to convince anyone of anything

This is how I see shit playing out.

I'm just trying to align it with the reality that I see. The best I can come up with is what the actual fuck.

So if you have an actual explanation why she is the better candidate or even why it will be ok, I'd love to hear it.

[quickesst]

178. I have my reasons...

.... for preferring Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders. If I come up with a list it will be one that has been repeated over and over again by many well informed Clinton supporters which brings me to the point of my reply to your OP. If you are unfamiliar with the reasons why myself and others support her, then you haven't been paying very much attention or you're being willfully ignorant. As I have already stated, your post is just a rehash of many others which of course I am familiar with because I have been paying attention. From a Sanders supporters point of view this statement could very well apply to you in regards to the candidates. GDP around here is sort of like Groundhog Day with the needle of persuasion moving very little or not at all either way. I suppose my words are more an observation than anything else.

[Todays_Illusion]

85. The primary reason I support Bernie Sanders is Hillary's conservatism, this post is reason #2.

I don't want to live through another scandal factory administration that I believe will deliver a conservative agenda.

[BootinUp]

86. Bernie could never win. period. Get with the program.

He couldn't even win a primary in the party on the left. Wouldn't have a chance in heil in a GE.

[bobthedrummer]

167. There are 72 counties here in Wisconsin-Bernie won 71 of them in April. We won't drink your koolaid.

[BootinUp]

169. Whats with a Repuke Governor? Splain it to me.

Wisconsin doesn't strengthen your argument, it weakens it.

[bobthedrummer]

170. You already are the fount of wisdom so have a good weekend-my lover of the truth.

[MyNameGoesHere]

87. Desperation rants

Were getting closer to that final stage of grief. Get well soon.

[shenmue]

95. Yeah

Dude needs to slow down a minute.

[Jesus Malverde]

91. DUZY!

How can you so fucking enthusiastically nominate a candidate that doesn't have a little luggage, but a whole fucking train that would give a skycap an erection thinking about the charges.

[Live and Learn]

94. K&R Well said. We finally get an ethical and real progressive candidate and they attempt to trash

him in favor of the obviously flawed establishment candidate. It is really disheartening to see, especially on DU.

[BainsBane]

96. Voters nominated her

3 million more of them and growing. Those voters are who you have a problem with. But ultimately it doesn't really matter what you think about it because your vote isn't worth any more than any other American's, and ultimately that is what Bernie and his supporters resent more than anything. "Progressives" can rail against the Democratic majority of people of color, women, elderly, disabled, and Democrats across the nation all they want. Voters still determine the outcome of elections.

Hundreds of thousands of energized people don't win an election or even a nomination. That takes hundreds of millions for the GE and tens of millions for the nomination. Sanders has proved that his revolution is nothing but a campaign slogan. He trails Clinton by a wide margin, and it has been clear since March 15 that he lost. Clinton has turned out millions of voters. She has organized volunteers across the country to work on GOTV efforts. The reasons Bernie lost are many but among them is that although he outspent Clinton 2-1, he refused to devote resources to organizing, which is why his CA field director quit. What kind of revolutionary spends well over $100 million on ads in corporate media outlets yet underfunds organizing? I suspect the answer to that may be found by following the money trail through Old Towne Media.

So sorry Bernie couldn't buy the hearts and minds of American voters. It must suck for Bernie supporters so convinced of their inherent superiority to know that lowly Democrats actually mattered in voting for the party's nominee and that those voters chose not to buy the bill of goods marketed to them to the tune of $200 million dollars.

[forjusticethunders]

168. This is another data point in my "This is a fraud" realization

"What kind of revolutionary spends well over $100 million on ads in corporate media outlets yet underfunds organizing? I suspect the answer to that may be found by following the money trail through Old Towne Media.
"

Wannabe. Empty suit. Socialist in name only (really the fact that he attaches his campaign to socialism is both infuriating and humiliating)

[BainsBane]

175. I especially agree about the socialism part

We've had been insisting that public roads are socialist. He's made the term so anodyne as to render it meaningless.

[akbacchus_BC]

97. You forgot, she is entitled. Mrs. Clinton is the Wall Street advocate!

Her campaign is supported by the Wall Street people! I just cannot understand why poor people vote for the Clintons. They have never advocated for the poor, it was always for the rich. Took away so many benefits from poor people when Bill Clinton got elected.

The establishment is getting really old, no wonder people are rebelling and supporting that wacko Trump!

[Sky Masterson]

99. So we can get our first Orangeican American President

Because its her turn to be the Gore/Kerry

[Major Hogwash]

100. Yeah, so whattaya gonna do 'bout it? Pout?!?

JUST SIT THERE AND EAT THE REST OF THE SHIT SANDWICH THAT HILLARY CLINTON HAS MADE FOR YOU, OR YOU WILL BE SENT TO BED WITHOUT DINNER, LITTLE MISTER!!



Oh, yeah, and you thought when Obama said "Eat your peas" he was talking to the Republicans.
He wasn't.
He was talking to the Democrats in this country that criticized him!!

So there!
Nyaahh!!

[firebrand80]

103. You people? nt

[Hoyt]

105. Ultimate arbiters -- voters -- have decided who should be the candidate for the Democratic Party.

[riversedge]

109. Yes. yes

[Uncle Joe]

107. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, hootinholler.

[mmonk]

110. That's been my thoughts as well. I just didn't have the courage to be that blunt about it.

[hootinholler]

118. Subtlety is lost in this cesspool

The responses have been somewhat enlightening.

[beachbum bob]

114. easy explained....america will not elect an angry old socialist not capable of protecting america

see...easy to explain.....and even better why has the media not vetted sanders??? Da nada.....well before this time in 2008, the media had been hardcore against obama....and yet silence on sanders? Me thinks they were hoping to blow him up if he got the nomination to insure a conservative win

[B Calm]

124. You sound like a Republican.

[Trajan]

181. The last 'socialist' American President

Won World War II ....

This argument is old as the hills, and just as false as it was in the 40s ....

I ignore all conservative Democrats ... Gone

[RazBerryBeret]

129. Consider all the Obstructionism

we've seen in the last 7 years. Obama has been lucky to get anything passed. Now imagine that tenfold. THAT's what another Clinton presidency will look like.

[sandyshoes17]

132. Media rush to call it for her

The media cannot wait to give her the nomination. From that time on, it will be on. They will go after her 24/7. They are jumping out of their seats already. I'm a Bernie supporter but I can see this plain as day. It will be relentless. Trump will pick a republican establishment vp, and the media will eat it up.

[Bobbie Jo]

137. Yuck

[hootinholler]

142. I know!

She makes me puke a little sometimes too.

[B Calm]

145. Me too!

[hootinholler]

158. Are those fish in your avatar?

I got my fish on the 620

[Bobbie Jo]

149. Oh you know, alright.

[Cobalt Violet]

141. we don't need her as the face of the party.

The party will suffer for a long time if people don't wake up and do the right thing.
If she cared at all about the party, and the people she would drop out. But it's all about her and her entitlement. It's her turn and everyone else be damned. It's unforgivable that the party continues to support her. We have much better Democrats than Hillary Clinton.

[stillwaiting]

166. At this point it could be about her very freedom. Could be I say.

She clearly committed a felony. Prima facie.

I can imagine HRC would be willing to do certain things for TPTB to keep herself protected right now. Unfortunately, I believe she could be willing to do quite a bit of damage to the poor, working class, and middle class in order to keep herself protected (perhaps even more than I already envision her capable of doing), and I can completely envision backroom deals being made where she promises to do certain things that the financial elite want to have done (to further enrich and empower themselves while simultaneously hurting and disempowering average citizens).

It is a shame I feel this way about our most likely nominee, but I do not trust HRC. And, I trust her less with all of the investigations swirling around her.

[oasis]

146. This bogus Bengazi/email thing is not about screw the American

people out of having one the best and brightest individuals of our time lead the nation.

[Scuba]

148. The people who back Clinton (and Bush) want an end to American democracy.

Not the rank-and-file supporters, of course, but the power brokers who fund her campaign and her personal pocketbook.

They hate democracy and the limits that it puts on their power and wealth.



So if they country goes down the shithole, that's exactly what they want.

[political marxist]

154. I'm more interested in

What the State Dept. considers classifiable. Hillary's emails concerning her support for the coup in Honduras, for example, which were on her private server but excluded from the public release. She has a lot to answer for in the violence that followed the ouster of Zelaya, particularly the murder of Berta Caceres and other activists. And her promotion of the attack on Libya, her ongoing support for broader intervention in Syria, continuing support for confrontation with Iran and cozying up to Netanyahu all reveal the direction she would take internationally. Not the sort of policy stances that would ease the mind.
.

[Tarc]

157. 3,033,824 votes, 270 pledged delegates

[frylock]

201. Currently fewer than 12 Federal Agents.

#HillMath

[ancianita]

159. US State Department is the top cabinet position, not arm of the intel community. So you're incorrect

to say that she "laid bare" stuff that fucks over the intel community. Big Time?? Please.

Control is the obsession of the 19 intel agencies. You're talking about a deep state that wants the public always and forever in the dark about secures or endangers their security and freedoms.

The FBI, doing its routine check of outgoing SoSs, has a whole different mentality that's anti-civilian and would like to have tighter control over all areas of state.

But the FBI can't. It can't even get the president to be reactive to its rule-bound jumping up and down issues right now. And that's as it should be.

I'm a Berner but even I can see how this is just doubt peddling. I know all the good reasons to nominate Hillary, but I'll leave it to dedicated campaign people to tell you.

[frylock]

202. So now this is a routine check of an outgoing SoS?

[ancianita]

208. That's how the New Yorker article I read put it.

[bobthedrummer]

164. K&R#147 n/t

[George II]

174. Just a couple of more weeks.

[Sancho]

176. New information learned from this OP...

Trump is having a effect on American grammar and vocabulary!!!

How else to explain 10 "fucks" and clauses like:
"I can understand the fuck them attitude, I have a case of it myself." and vocabulary like:
anyilhead, munchkinland, and pissant?

At any rate, to answer the specific questions:

When you add to that a fucking anvilhead cumulus hovering over the Hoover Building ready to spin off a political tornado the likes of which could land poor Dorothy in the Federal munchkinland in Kansas.
Really? You don't think that will happen?

No...I really don't think there will be a real or metaphorical storm of any kind. I think that Auntie Em, Dorothy, and Hillary will all survive!!

[hootinholler]

183. Yeah, that is a bit of a sentence fragment

It bothered me too, I should have a consequent clause like it's unfathomable or some shit like that. Thanks for pointing that out, my prose should eventually improve.

As to tRump affecting my vocabulary, what the fuck does that even mean? I'm Navy trained, you ever hear the idiom swears like a sailor? Fuck yeah, I thought you had. So fuck that notion twice on Sunday. Have you heard of the need for speed? well once in a while I'm in the mood for rude. Makes this shit look tame.

Oh and don't ever say you weren't warned. There's a hard motherfucking rain on the horizon complete with shit hail the size of Bill's Balls. I hope you got a 4WD vehicle.

Oooooo, a video!

[Sancho]

198. I'm on the water today...an Annapolis grad (sub commander) and Vietnam carrier pilot on the crew.

On my ship, we don't "talk like a sailor". It's not respectful or efficient. If we sink, we're allowed one "oh shit" and that's it.

The email server will go on the list with Whitewater, Vince Foster, birth certificates, and UFOs...until Hillary is President and releases the UFO files.

[hootinholler]

212. Did you actually discuss this with them?

Get their opinions on leaving a major communications stream belonging to the top diplomat unsecured? Both of your pals would understand the implications of an SAP breach.

BTW, my fish are silver.

[frylock]

204. I don't find your fuck bombs in the least bit offensive.

Of course, I'm currently in the middle of binge watching the Trailer Park Boys, so I may have been desensitized.

[noiretextatique]

185. Worst candidate...ever

Maybe they want to lose this election.

[EndElectoral]

186. I disagree...now worst "Democratic" candidate ever I get

[asuhornets]

192. Because...winning

[Raastan]

194. Bernie has plenty of his own baggage

It just hasn't been dug into yet. Don't be so naive.

[frylock]

205. Because Hillary's oppo research team really sucks, or...

because there's nothing there?

[anotherproletariat]

200. Brock Brigade member here...

Our choices were Hillary or Sanders. Sanders has much more in his background that would make him a weak general election candidate. While liberal Democrats don't really care about his socialist background or this atheism, many, many middle Americans do care. Then put those things in the hands of the GOP ad machine...and add his plans to massively raise taxes, the fact that he never held a job before being mayor of some town in Vermont, his rape fantasy writings, pro-pot legalization stance and he quickly looks like a fringe liberal wacko.

The 'negatives' about Hillary have been largely disproven, and no one who seriously believes she even had an inkling about running for president in 2016 thinks that she purposefully did anything with her emails as SOS to harm that chance. Even if the FBI can prove that warning letters were sent to the SOS office, they cannot prove that Hillary saw those warnings.

Cha ching...another $200 in the bank...

[Enthusiast]

203. Kicked and recommended!

[The_Casual_Observer]

206. Soon the Sanders Side Show wil be coming

To an end.

What are YOU going to do?

[greatauntoftriplets]

207. I'm thinking that I should close the windows since it's raining.

[LibDemAlways]

213. So disheartening to think that the best the

Democratic Party can come up with is one of the most despised politicians in the country. A candidate who voted for the Iraq clusterfuck, supports fracking, gives speeches behind closed doors to crooks and then stonewalls revealing what she said. A candidate who didn't have the good sense to comply with government regulations regarding email correspondence as SOS and who remains the target of an FBI investigation. She's giving the Repukes a treasure trove of material to go after her with.

And we're expected to fall in line like a bunch of sheep and support this? If Trump wins in November, TPTB have no one to blame but themselves for putting up such a weak, truly awful candidate.

[stevenleser]

214. If you think that, then you should have gotten someone to run who is a better choice

Sanders isn't it.

[insta8er]

215. Because: I'ts her turn, and glass ceiling, and nothing the other side says is true, and right wing

smear, and tin foil hats and 3 million, and and and and....no real substantive argument.

[MrsKirkley]

221. Because they love health insurance companies & the TPP

It makes perfect sense for people to pay expensive health insurance premiums for insurance with such a high deductible they can't afford to use it. So much better than a single-payer system with no premiums, no deductibles, and the ability to cut the cost of health care. It makes perfect sense to support another free trade deal since not enough American workers lost jobs overseas

[StevieM]

232. You left out the one group of people who are actually giving the nomination to Hillary:

The American people.

She is winning the nomination because the voters of the Democratic Primary chose her over Bernie Sanders.

[Beacool]

233. Excuse me, but what the f*ck are YOU thinking?

Do you think this is the old Soviet Union and the Politburo gets to choose who rules us?

Democratic VOTERS have spoken and their clear choice is Hillary. It's her large pledged delegate lead that will make her the nominee, this is not a coronation. Hillary will be the nominee because she earned it.

Why should the party nominate the losing candidate????

I blame Sanders and his two campaign strategists for this distorted view of the nominating process. The losing candidate does NOT get the nomination, no matter if he and his supporters rail at the skies. The mere suggestion is so undemocratic that it would really cause a revolt.

There are millions of people who voted for Hillary and their vote is just as valuable as that of Millenials. Do some of you think that if the super delegates lost their collective minds and nominated Sanders, that Hillary's supporters would be lemmings and quietly go to the polls in November???? You people want to see a "messy" convention? Just try that strategy.

Of all the undemocratic bull crap one reads on this site.........

[hootinholler]

235. How fucking ironic!

Politburo?


Ask Komrad Shultz about fucking politburos choosing candidates.



Oh, she hasn't won yet, even with the poliburo backing her. She may or may not win a majority of the pledged delegates. Will your argument stand when she doesn't?

[Beacool]

236. Math seems not to be your forte.

For all intent and purposes, Hillary won the nomination in April. Sanders cannot surpass her pledged delegate advantage.

Now laugh away that nugget.......

[hootinholler]

237. Um, I'm math challenged?

Sanders cannot surpass her pledged delegate advantage.

And still the door remains open to a majority of the PD for the convention, you are simply wrong here.