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SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
Thu May 26, 2016, 11:57 AM May 2016

Time Magazine Dispels Myth of a Positive Campaign by HRC and that Sanders has not been Vetted

Great read overall, but some interesting bits in there that dispel some good old DU stories from the usual suspects.

First off, the notion that Clinton handled Sanders with kid gloves and that her campaign was a very positive one (which I have read here frequently)


If Sanders had promised never to go negative, no Clinton had ever done so. The hammer fell during the first debate in October. When a moderator asked Clinton if Sanders had a tough enough record on guns, she pounced. “No, not at all,” Clinton said of her rival, who represents a mostly rural state. Months later, Sanders still smarts over the constant attacks about guns.“The idea that I am being called a tool of the NRA, a supporter of the NRA, is really quite outrageous,” he says.

Soon the hits from Clinton’s boosters were relentless. Sanders’ aides expected them, but the candidate’s shock at the Clintons’ hard-nosed politics was unmistakable. The tactics went against his hopes for a high-­minded campaign fought on issues, not on microfiche or her email practices. And as Sanders’ crowds grew, so did his poll numbers and contributions from small donors. And so did the Clinton attacks
.


On the absurd notion that Sanders polls well and is generally popular because he has not been vetted and nobody has dug dirt up on him....

He had briefly forgotten the Clintons’ appetite for a political brawl.

In fact, the Clinton machine was just warming up. Clinton researchers had spent months digging into Sanders’ vulnerabilitiesstandard operating procedure for any modern campaign—and countless outside allies offered their binders of research too. There was plenty to go around: he was once ambivalent about South American socialist dictatorships, he honeymooned in the Soviet Union, he voted against the Wall Street bailout that ultimately helped U.S. autoworkers and he had been critical of Barack Obama’s first term. Clinton tagged Sanders for being AWOL during the fight for health care in 1993 and ’94, despite plenty of TV footage and photography to the contrary. Fair or not, the onslaught left Sanders upset; he had never faced this kind of scrutiny. “We know a lot of stuff has been leaked into the papers which are lies and distortions,” Sanders says. “Their response is, ‘Look, that’s the world we live in, that’s what you gotta do.’ I understand that. I don’t think that’s what you gotta do.”


The win at all costs team dug deep and found nothing that stuck. Interesting.



Oh, about inevitability? Sure sounds like some aides were in fact looking for a coronation

Clinton aides, who from the start expected their boss to be the nominee, found themselves starting to despise Sanders and his unwillingness to stand aside to let the first woman lead a major party’s ticket.



Again, all in all a really good look at the Sanders campaign as a whole. But some very good jabs at the negative campaign run by Clinton and the subsequent response from Sanders (who somehow got labeled the negative one)

http://time.com/bernie-sanders-2016-campaign/
67 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Time Magazine Dispels Myth of a Positive Campaign by HRC and that Sanders has not been Vetted (Original Post) SheenaR May 2016 OP
Before people talk about a negative campaign, they should figure out what they mean by that. merrily May 2016 #1
Sanders ran a negative campaign he smeared Hillary with innuendos: lewebley3 May 2016 #2
complicity has its perils... islandmkl May 2016 #3
Sanders lied about free college and breaking up the banks lewebley3 May 2016 #4
Actually, The ones who claimed Sanders lied were the liars and have been debunked. merrily May 2016 #40
No it hasn't: the reason white college kids are voting for him lewebley3 May 2016 #52
Your post is false on both counts, which should surprise no DUer. merrily May 2016 #54
The poor and elderly are voting for Hillary they trust her not Sanders lewebley3 May 2016 #62
Well, at least that post is half accurate, which is 50% better than your prior posts. merrily May 2016 #63
No it completely true: White males who want free college are voting for Sanders lewebley3 May 2016 #64
Bull puckies. LINK? merrily May 2016 #65
sandy Hook --was THAT "innuendo" ? GreatGazoo May 2016 #5
That was a real low point in the HRC campaign. She needs to apologize for that one. reformist2 May 2016 #41
if you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas Viva_La_Revolution May 2016 #6
Exactly. Bernie owns his gun vote. I'm not great with it, but it was decades ago Doctor_J May 2016 #20
The gun thing is why Sanders is beating Trump but not Clinton. hollowdweller May 2016 #7
That's a lot of cherry picking. procon May 2016 #8
Not cherry picking at all SheenaR May 2016 #10
She's winning, and she can easily absorb his one plank platform. procon May 2016 #13
You see it as a response to losing SheenaR May 2016 #16
That's a good cause, but the scorched earth tactics are working against you. nt procon May 2016 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author TM99 May 2016 #29
People who say things like that don't know what they're talking about. senz May 2016 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author TM99 May 2016 #36
They know their candidate can't win fair and square senz May 2016 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author TM99 May 2016 #42
A sense of humor is necessary at times like this. senz May 2016 #43
wow, I didn't think Time would ever be fair to Sanders. Vattel May 2016 #9
It is what she does Bettie May 2016 #12
Wow. I never thought Time would be in Bernie's back pocket. kstewart33 May 2016 #22
That was his big mistake: he simply wasn't prepared for the depth of sleaze that Clinton is willing Scootaloo May 2016 #30
I agree with that. polly7 May 2016 #46
I agree entirely. She carefully crafts her sleazy messages Vattel May 2016 #49
What kills me is that some (most?) of her supporters actually admire that shit vintx May 2016 #53
definitely was a mistake on his part jonmac511 May 2016 #51
Interesting article Bettie May 2016 #11
One criticsm a year ago? Demsrule86 May 2016 #14
You got just one out of that? SheenaR May 2016 #15
The only reason they haven't fired it... kstewart33 May 2016 #23
Your article actually proves what you're claiming it disproves. BobbyDrake May 2016 #17
And then he was SheenaR May 2016 #18
Where has Clinton vetted Bernie? kstewart33 May 2016 #25
David Brock was sending out emails SheenaR May 2016 #27
No, ALMOST as if Hillary's vetting were the first time. merrily May 2016 #21
Clinton's got a file on Bernie that's a foot thick. kstewart33 May 2016 #26
Occam's Razor, chief Scootaloo May 2016 #31
Um, she's used what she has. And you know the thickness of her file how? merrily May 2016 #38
Bingo. nt kstewart33 May 2016 #24
LOL! merrily May 2016 #39
finally, thank you oldandhappy May 2016 #28
K&R silvershadow May 2016 #32
"Clinton aides... found themselves starting to despise Sanders." snowy owl May 2016 #33
Good question. nt vintx May 2016 #55
In the debates, Clinton made dishonest attacks on Bernie's votes. senz May 2016 #34
Wow. Had no idea of the backstory there. It's stuff like this that makes me think less of HRC. reformist2 May 2016 #44
She did several of those. Sneaky and disingenuous. senz May 2016 #45
She is the living embodiment of politics as usual vintx May 2016 #56
I think her campaign's tactics are worse than "usual." senz May 2016 #57
True, it's only 'as usual' for this kind of politician. vintx May 2016 #61
K&R for truth!!!! Betty Karlson May 2016 #47
Camp Weathervane attacked Bernie's policies and it backfired. He became more popular. Scuba May 2016 #48
Executive summary: He lost the first debate and that was the end of his lead. ucrdem May 2016 #50
You're not an "executive." Just another partisan. senz May 2016 #58
K & R imagine2015 May 2016 #59
Well sourced snips, thanks! Babel_17 May 2016 #60
He's well vetted. Cheese Sandwich May 2016 #66
I just read this. Was pleasantly surprised how balanced the article was. mainer May 2016 #67

merrily

(45,251 posts)
1. Before people talk about a negative campaign, they should figure out what they mean by that.
Thu May 26, 2016, 12:07 PM
May 2016

If Hillary is asked whether Bernie's gun record is great and she truthfully said no, not at all, I don't see that as going negative. That's not character assassination. It's not a dirty trick, etc.

Same for Bernie. He has a right to attack her judgment on the Iraq War vote or any other vote she took. Even saying "My record is much better than his" is saying implicitly that his record is poor. What else are they supposed to run on if not each other's records?

Maybe I'm missing something?

As far as "vetting," I have no doubt at all that the Clinton campaign dug into Bernie's past as deeply as they could and, by leaks to media and other means, used what they had. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to review the 2008 campaign that the Clinton camp ran.

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
2. Sanders ran a negative campaign he smeared Hillary with innuendos:
Thu May 26, 2016, 12:15 PM
May 2016

He kept trying blame Hillary for the evil in all the world: instead
of the GOP.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
63. Well, at least that post is half accurate, which is 50% better than your prior posts.
Fri May 27, 2016, 02:14 PM
May 2016

Older people do TEND to vote for Hillary; under 40 tend to vote for Bernie, all income levels,all races, etc.

She's the past of the Party; he's the future of the Party.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
65. Bull puckies. LINK?
Fri May 27, 2016, 02:21 PM
May 2016

That's always your nemesis, isn't it, because you can never back up the bull puckies you constantly post.

LINK?

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
5. sandy Hook --was THAT "innuendo" ?
Thu May 26, 2016, 12:24 PM
May 2016

Sanders said Hillary takes money from Wall Street. She does. It is not innuendo

Team Hillary cried foul over this ad while they cue'd up the Sandy Hook stuff:

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
20. Exactly. Bernie owns his gun vote. I'm not great with it, but it was decades ago
Thu May 26, 2016, 02:19 PM
May 2016

and I am ambivalent about manufacturers liability.

OTOH, Calling Bernie a racist and saying his supporters throw chairs - those are lies. Her supporters refuse to own her atrocious record of lying, backtracking, and questionable decisions.

 

hollowdweller

(4,229 posts)
7. The gun thing is why Sanders is beating Trump but not Clinton.
Thu May 26, 2016, 12:28 PM
May 2016

In reality, Sanders and Clinton's gun positions are not that different.

However by attacking Sanders on guns, as well as by Chelsea saying that they could get more gun control once they appointed some new justices, that put a shit ton of independents who are economically populist in the Sanders camp.

Once the general begins these people who will never vote for Hillary will move to Trump with his fake populist stances and give him the margin to beat Clinton. As long as Sanders is in the race these voters are for him because he is more believeable on his pro worker stances than Trump or Clinton.

They way Hillary wins is by having surrogates attack Trump as inauthentic on his pro worker stances, like Sanders and Warren, because if she does the attacking she is subject to counter attack on free trade, Clinton Foundation, speeches to Wall Street.

procon

(15,805 posts)
8. That's a lot of cherry picking.
Thu May 26, 2016, 12:30 PM
May 2016

The article was also critical of Sanders, noting how ill prepared he was and only wanted to score points. They faulted "his insular, mostly male circle of advisers," for pushing an increasingly belligerent message. Although it was omitted in favor of the juicier tidbits, the article also says, "Sanders faces a choice—and a test," warning that, "If things don’t go in Sanders’ favor, his allies have prepared for him to show his force."

SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
10. Not cherry picking at all
Thu May 26, 2016, 12:38 PM
May 2016

I thought it was a favorable article.

Showed what he has been up against and is still up against.

He has a big choice. And you cherry picked... The male circle of advisers got belligerent in RESPONSE to Clinton. Not preemptively.

He has to show his force because as the article also showed, Clinton wants no part of his platform.

So he and we will fight on

procon

(15,805 posts)
13. She's winning, and she can easily absorb his one plank platform.
Thu May 26, 2016, 01:02 PM
May 2016

If Sanders didn't know what he'd be up against then he wasn't ready for a national campaign. If his response to losing is going to be fighting, he's still not ready for prime time.

SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
16. You see it as a response to losing
Thu May 26, 2016, 01:09 PM
May 2016

Most of us see it as a response to creating a much needed fundamental change to our Party

Response to procon (Reply #13)

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
35. People who say things like that don't know what they're talking about.
Fri May 27, 2016, 02:17 AM
May 2016

They've never listened to what Bernie says. But they spread lies.

Response to senz (Reply #35)

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
37. They know their candidate can't win fair and square
Fri May 27, 2016, 02:58 AM
May 2016

and now they're learning she can't win crooked either.

Response to senz (Reply #37)

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
9. wow, I didn't think Time would ever be fair to Sanders.
Thu May 26, 2016, 12:31 PM
May 2016

HRC has run a dirty campaign against Sanders. Glad to see some of the facts are emerging.

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
22. Wow. I never thought Time would be in Bernie's back pocket.
Thu May 26, 2016, 11:57 PM
May 2016

Sounded okay until the point that Bernie has been vetted.

That is ridiculous. There are presently more articles noting that he has not been vetted than there are articles that actually vet him.

For those who disagree: provide 10 articles in mainstream publications that vet Bernie. It's not there.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
30. That was his big mistake: he simply wasn't prepared for the depth of sleaze that Clinton is willing
Fri May 27, 2016, 12:53 AM
May 2016

She's a person who made Barack Obama's church attendance a campaign issue - and in the same campaign kept trying to insinuate he was really a Muslim, too.

Bernie seems to have been kind of naive in this regard. Whoever follows after him needs to keep it in mind - the right-wing machine exists in both parties and will spare no indignity, no graceless leap, in its effort to prevent any derailment of the rightward spiral of American politics.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
46. I agree with that.
Fri May 27, 2016, 06:04 AM
May 2016

I don't think he saw it coming at all. Naturally and lifelong decent, moral people are always a bit naive when it comes to those they've respected, as he probably did Clinton at one time, imo.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
49. I agree entirely. She carefully crafts her sleazy messages
Fri May 27, 2016, 10:05 AM
May 2016

so she gets the bullshit message out there without actually saying anything that is literally and explicitly false. Talk about artful smears. She is the master at that.

jonmac511

(46 posts)
51. definitely was a mistake on his part
Fri May 27, 2016, 11:22 AM
May 2016

It was a mistake he figured out pretty quickly and was/is still reluctant to respond with similar tactics. In the first debate he took the focus off of the scandals in an effort to remain focused on the very serious issues facing average Americans. How he has developed a faction of the party that flat out despise him, when he has campaigned with integrity, is beyond me.

Demsrule86

(68,539 posts)
14. One criticsm a year ago?
Thu May 26, 2016, 01:03 PM
May 2016

The swiftboating that would end Bernie would be well swift and deadly for the GE...all sorts of things out there.

SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
15. You got just one out of that?
Thu May 26, 2016, 01:08 PM
May 2016

The Clintons are on our side. They are dirty. If there was a smoking gun, they would have fired it.

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
23. The only reason they haven't fired it...
Thu May 26, 2016, 11:59 PM
May 2016

Is they need the support of Bernie's supporters.

You can bet Clinton has a file on Bernie that's a foot thick.

So do the Republicans who have been quiet as a church mouse about Bernie while spending millions on anti-Hillary ads.

Now why is that, do you think?

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
17. Your article actually proves what you're claiming it disproves.
Thu May 26, 2016, 01:16 PM
May 2016

You say the article proves that the narrative of Bernie not being vetted was a myth, but then you quote this:

Fair or not, the onslaught left Sanders upset; he had never faced this kind of scrutiny.


Almost as if he'd never been vetted, you mean?

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
25. Where has Clinton vetted Bernie?
Fri May 27, 2016, 12:03 AM
May 2016

What has Clinton said about his past Communist and Marxist relationships. His discussion on video (youtube) about how great Castro's revolution was and how it triggered his entering politics? His support of the Sandinistas? His service as a presidential elector for a socialist organization that calls for the public ownership of all forms of industrial production in this country?

Sheena, please tell us when Clinton discussed this and where? What did she say?

You can't. Because she's never done that.

The Republicans can't wait to get their hands on Bernie if he were the nominee. They would destroy him with what they've got.

SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
27. David Brock was sending out emails
Fri May 27, 2016, 12:21 AM
May 2016

Literally drawing a parallel between Sanders and Hugo Chavez. Which he eventually walked back on TV.

The support for those regimes was literally brought up at a debate. A clip was shown. It's no secret.

And if the Repubs haven't attacked him, then where have all the little negative Socialist innuendos throughout the campaign come from?

No candidate has 100% of their laundry out there. But let's not act like he is completely untested.

And if they did paint him as the second coming of Stalin, how many Dems would bail on him. Not many. They know it's bullshit. Independents who know him, wouldn't bail. The only Indys we would lose are the ones we never had in the first place.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
21. No, ALMOST as if Hillary's vetting were the first time.
Thu May 26, 2016, 11:37 PM
May 2016

Her campaign, with all its money and contacts, did its best to vet him. Believing otherwise is delusional, especially after observing her 2008 campaign against Obama.

Anyone who needed a magazine article to break that down for them needs help facing reality.

ETA: Welcome to DU, BobbyDrake, flawed reading, flawed logic and all. Brock on!

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
26. Clinton's got a file on Bernie that's a foot thick.
Fri May 27, 2016, 12:05 AM
May 2016

Now think for a moment why she hasn't used it.

The Republicans have videos, microfiche and files on Bern. And the Republicans have been quiet as a church mouse about Bernie while spending millions on anti-Hillary ads.

Trump would love to have Bernie as his GE opponent. Now, why is that?

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
31. Occam's Razor, chief
Fri May 27, 2016, 01:05 AM
May 2016

If Clinton had a "file a foot thick," it would certainly have been used. At least itt would have been used well before any of the easily-disproven bullshit and lies that came out of her campaign were used. It's been very strange to watch the leading candidate campaigning like she's in fourth place.

Your theory that Clinton wants Sanders supporters votes is also foiled by this reality. If she wanted their votes, then showing them "The Truth" about Bernie Sanders, via that foot-thick file, would work pretty well. But instead, she's opted for insulting and berating us. It's a pretty poor strategy to use towards people who want on your side.

If Team Clinton is "sitting on a file," then Team Clinton is probably the stupidest fucking campaign I've ever seen.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
38. Um, she's used what she has. And you know the thickness of her file how?
Fri May 27, 2016, 03:01 AM
May 2016
Trump would love to have Bernie as his GE opponent.


In your dreams. BTW, you know this how? Trump would much rather fight Hillary than a change candidate who is saner than Trump.

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)
33. "Clinton aides... found themselves starting to despise Sanders."
Fri May 27, 2016, 01:49 AM
May 2016

The entitled. Doesn't it sound a lot like the posts we get from the usual suspects on this site? Hateful rhetoric. What is there about Clinton that encourages that?

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
34. In the debates, Clinton made dishonest attacks on Bernie's votes.
Fri May 27, 2016, 02:13 AM
May 2016

Here is one such attack analyzed by Thom Hartmann.

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
44. Wow. Had no idea of the backstory there. It's stuff like this that makes me think less of HRC.
Fri May 27, 2016, 03:34 AM
May 2016

It's an excellent debate point, but it's horribly disingenuous.
 

senz

(11,945 posts)
45. She did several of those. Sneaky and disingenuous.
Fri May 27, 2016, 03:39 AM
May 2016

Bernie, being so forthright, was clearly shocked but speechless. I don't think he'd fully realized yet what kind of person she is.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
57. I think her campaign's tactics are worse than "usual."
Fri May 27, 2016, 12:04 PM
May 2016

We saw it in her attacks on Obama's religion and race 2008 and we've seen it in her attempts to obliterate who Bernie Sanders is and what he stands for. She hits below the belt with great ease.

In recent weeks, her campaign has been keeping Hillary "above it all" while attacking Bernie and his followers viciously through surrogates. I honestly believe Hillary lacks a sense of decency and conscience. If she has compadres in the political world, it would be the swiftboaters who destroyed John Kerry. Her tactics (and her ideology, imo) fit better with the worst of rightwingers than with anything we associate with the Democratic Party.

 

vintx

(1,748 posts)
61. True, it's only 'as usual' for this kind of politician.
Fri May 27, 2016, 12:28 PM
May 2016

Can't remember the name of the guy who is credited with normalizing this kind of stuff. I do know he later regretted his actions.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
48. Camp Weathervane attacked Bernie's policies and it backfired. He became more popular.
Fri May 27, 2016, 08:33 AM
May 2016

Then they attacked Bernie's character, but that backfired too. He became even more popular.

Now they're reduced to attacking Bernie's supporters.



Pathetic.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
50. Executive summary: He lost the first debate and that was the end of his lead.
Fri May 27, 2016, 10:08 AM
May 2016

Losing the rest of them didn't help, either.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
58. You're not an "executive." Just another partisan.
Fri May 27, 2016, 12:10 PM
May 2016

Bernie never had a "lead." He entered the race a virtual unknown and has steadily risen in popularity while Hillary has steadily fallen.

Shall I add an insincere little smilie? Ugh, no thanks.

mainer

(12,022 posts)
67. I just read this. Was pleasantly surprised how balanced the article was.
Sun May 29, 2016, 12:27 PM
May 2016

It fully blames HRC for being the first to go negative.

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