2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumTime Magazine Dispels Myth of a Positive Campaign by HRC and that Sanders has not been Vetted
Great read overall, but some interesting bits in there that dispel some good old DU stories from the usual suspects.
First off, the notion that Clinton handled Sanders with kid gloves and that her campaign was a very positive one (which I have read here frequently)
Soon the hits from Clintons boosters were relentless. Sanders aides expected them, but the candidates shock at the Clintons hard-nosed politics was unmistakable. The tactics went against his hopes for a high-minded campaign fought on issues, not on microfiche or her email practices. And as Sanders crowds grew, so did his poll numbers and contributions from small donors. And so did the Clinton attacks
On the absurd notion that Sanders polls well and is generally popular because he has not been vetted and nobody has dug dirt up on him....
In fact, the Clinton machine was just warming up. Clinton researchers had spent months digging into Sanders vulnerabilitiesstandard operating procedure for any modern campaignand countless outside allies offered their binders of research too. There was plenty to go around: he was once ambivalent about South American socialist dictatorships, he honeymooned in the Soviet Union, he voted against the Wall Street bailout that ultimately helped U.S. autoworkers and he had been critical of Barack Obamas first term. Clinton tagged Sanders for being AWOL during the fight for health care in 1993 and 94, despite plenty of TV footage and photography to the contrary. Fair or not, the onslaught left Sanders upset; he had never faced this kind of scrutiny. We know a lot of stuff has been leaked into the papers which are lies and distortions, Sanders says. Their response is, Look, thats the world we live in, thats what you gotta do. I understand that. I dont think thats what you gotta do.
The win at all costs team dug deep and found nothing that stuck. Interesting.
Oh, about inevitability? Sure sounds like some aides were in fact looking for a coronation
Again, all in all a really good look at the Sanders campaign as a whole. But some very good jabs at the negative campaign run by Clinton and the subsequent response from Sanders (who somehow got labeled the negative one)
http://time.com/bernie-sanders-2016-campaign/
merrily
(45,251 posts)If Hillary is asked whether Bernie's gun record is great and she truthfully said no, not at all, I don't see that as going negative. That's not character assassination. It's not a dirty trick, etc.
Same for Bernie. He has a right to attack her judgment on the Iraq War vote or any other vote she took. Even saying "My record is much better than his" is saying implicitly that his record is poor. What else are they supposed to run on if not each other's records?
Maybe I'm missing something?
As far as "vetting," I have no doubt at all that the Clinton campaign dug into Bernie's past as deeply as they could and, by leaks to media and other means, used what they had. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to review the 2008 campaign that the Clinton camp ran.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)He kept trying blame Hillary for the evil in all the world: instead
of the GOP.
islandmkl
(5,275 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Thoroughly.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Older people do TEND to vote for Hillary; under 40 tend to vote for Bernie, all income levels,all races, etc.
She's the past of the Party; he's the future of the Party.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)That's always your nemesis, isn't it, because you can never back up the bull puckies you constantly post.
LINK?
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)Sanders said Hillary takes money from Wall Street. She does. It is not innuendo
Team Hillary cried foul over this ad while they cue'd up the Sandy Hook stuff:
reformist2
(9,841 posts)Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)She ain't getting up on my bed.
I bet Bernie smells like peppermint
http://www.wikihow.com/Control-Fleas-by-Using-Peppermint
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)and I am ambivalent about manufacturers liability.
OTOH, Calling Bernie a racist and saying his supporters throw chairs - those are lies. Her supporters refuse to own her atrocious record of lying, backtracking, and questionable decisions.
hollowdweller
(4,229 posts)In reality, Sanders and Clinton's gun positions are not that different.
However by attacking Sanders on guns, as well as by Chelsea saying that they could get more gun control once they appointed some new justices, that put a shit ton of independents who are economically populist in the Sanders camp.
Once the general begins these people who will never vote for Hillary will move to Trump with his fake populist stances and give him the margin to beat Clinton. As long as Sanders is in the race these voters are for him because he is more believeable on his pro worker stances than Trump or Clinton.
They way Hillary wins is by having surrogates attack Trump as inauthentic on his pro worker stances, like Sanders and Warren, because if she does the attacking she is subject to counter attack on free trade, Clinton Foundation, speeches to Wall Street.
procon
(15,805 posts)The article was also critical of Sanders, noting how ill prepared he was and only wanted to score points. They faulted "his insular, mostly male circle of advisers," for pushing an increasingly belligerent message. Although it was omitted in favor of the juicier tidbits, the article also says, "Sanders faces a choiceand a test," warning that, "If things dont go in Sanders favor, his allies have prepared for him to show his force."
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)I thought it was a favorable article.
Showed what he has been up against and is still up against.
He has a big choice. And you cherry picked... The male circle of advisers got belligerent in RESPONSE to Clinton. Not preemptively.
He has to show his force because as the article also showed, Clinton wants no part of his platform.
So he and we will fight on
procon
(15,805 posts)If Sanders didn't know what he'd be up against then he wasn't ready for a national campaign. If his response to losing is going to be fighting, he's still not ready for prime time.
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)Most of us see it as a response to creating a much needed fundamental change to our Party
procon
(15,805 posts)Response to procon (Reply #13)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
senz
(11,945 posts)They've never listened to what Bernie says. But they spread lies.
Response to senz (Reply #35)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
senz
(11,945 posts)and now they're learning she can't win crooked either.
Response to senz (Reply #37)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
senz
(11,945 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)HRC has run a dirty campaign against Sanders. Glad to see some of the facts are emerging.
Bettie
(16,085 posts)I doubt she can run a clean one.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Sounded okay until the point that Bernie has been vetted.
That is ridiculous. There are presently more articles noting that he has not been vetted than there are articles that actually vet him.
For those who disagree: provide 10 articles in mainstream publications that vet Bernie. It's not there.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)She's a person who made Barack Obama's church attendance a campaign issue - and in the same campaign kept trying to insinuate he was really a Muslim, too.
Bernie seems to have been kind of naive in this regard. Whoever follows after him needs to keep it in mind - the right-wing machine exists in both parties and will spare no indignity, no graceless leap, in its effort to prevent any derailment of the rightward spiral of American politics.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I don't think he saw it coming at all. Naturally and lifelong decent, moral people are always a bit naive when it comes to those they've respected, as he probably did Clinton at one time, imo.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)so she gets the bullshit message out there without actually saying anything that is literally and explicitly false. Talk about artful smears. She is the master at that.
vintx
(1,748 posts)Sick
jonmac511
(46 posts)It was a mistake he figured out pretty quickly and was/is still reluctant to respond with similar tactics. In the first debate he took the focus off of the scandals in an effort to remain focused on the very serious issues facing average Americans. How he has developed a faction of the party that flat out despise him, when he has campaigned with integrity, is beyond me.
Bettie
(16,085 posts)points out the good and bad in his campaign and how things get twisted.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)The swiftboating that would end Bernie would be well swift and deadly for the GE...all sorts of things out there.
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)The Clintons are on our side. They are dirty. If there was a smoking gun, they would have fired it.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Is they need the support of Bernie's supporters.
You can bet Clinton has a file on Bernie that's a foot thick.
So do the Republicans who have been quiet as a church mouse about Bernie while spending millions on anti-Hillary ads.
Now why is that, do you think?
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)You say the article proves that the narrative of Bernie not being vetted was a myth, but then you quote this:
Almost as if he'd never been vetted, you mean?
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)by Clinton's team
Try to keep up
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)What has Clinton said about his past Communist and Marxist relationships. His discussion on video (youtube) about how great Castro's revolution was and how it triggered his entering politics? His support of the Sandinistas? His service as a presidential elector for a socialist organization that calls for the public ownership of all forms of industrial production in this country?
Sheena, please tell us when Clinton discussed this and where? What did she say?
You can't. Because she's never done that.
The Republicans can't wait to get their hands on Bernie if he were the nominee. They would destroy him with what they've got.
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)Literally drawing a parallel between Sanders and Hugo Chavez. Which he eventually walked back on TV.
The support for those regimes was literally brought up at a debate. A clip was shown. It's no secret.
And if the Repubs haven't attacked him, then where have all the little negative Socialist innuendos throughout the campaign come from?
No candidate has 100% of their laundry out there. But let's not act like he is completely untested.
And if they did paint him as the second coming of Stalin, how many Dems would bail on him. Not many. They know it's bullshit. Independents who know him, wouldn't bail. The only Indys we would lose are the ones we never had in the first place.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Her campaign, with all its money and contacts, did its best to vet him. Believing otherwise is delusional, especially after observing her 2008 campaign against Obama.
Anyone who needed a magazine article to break that down for them needs help facing reality.
ETA: Welcome to DU, BobbyDrake, flawed reading, flawed logic and all. Brock on!
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Now think for a moment why she hasn't used it.
The Republicans have videos, microfiche and files on Bern. And the Republicans have been quiet as a church mouse about Bernie while spending millions on anti-Hillary ads.
Trump would love to have Bernie as his GE opponent. Now, why is that?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)If Clinton had a "file a foot thick," it would certainly have been used. At least itt would have been used well before any of the easily-disproven bullshit and lies that came out of her campaign were used. It's been very strange to watch the leading candidate campaigning like she's in fourth place.
Your theory that Clinton wants Sanders supporters votes is also foiled by this reality. If she wanted their votes, then showing them "The Truth" about Bernie Sanders, via that foot-thick file, would work pretty well. But instead, she's opted for insulting and berating us. It's a pretty poor strategy to use towards people who want on your side.
If Team Clinton is "sitting on a file," then Team Clinton is probably the stupidest fucking campaign I've ever seen.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Trump would love to have Bernie as his GE opponent.
In your dreams. BTW, you know this how? Trump would much rather fight Hillary than a change candidate who is saner than Trump.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)The entitled. Doesn't it sound a lot like the posts we get from the usual suspects on this site? Hateful rhetoric. What is there about Clinton that encourages that?
vintx
(1,748 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Here is one such attack analyzed by Thom Hartmann.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)It's an excellent debate point, but it's horribly disingenuous.
senz
(11,945 posts)Bernie, being so forthright, was clearly shocked but speechless. I don't think he'd fully realized yet what kind of person she is.
vintx
(1,748 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)We saw it in her attacks on Obama's religion and race 2008 and we've seen it in her attempts to obliterate who Bernie Sanders is and what he stands for. She hits below the belt with great ease.
In recent weeks, her campaign has been keeping Hillary "above it all" while attacking Bernie and his followers viciously through surrogates. I honestly believe Hillary lacks a sense of decency and conscience. If she has compadres in the political world, it would be the swiftboaters who destroyed John Kerry. Her tactics (and her ideology, imo) fit better with the worst of rightwingers than with anything we associate with the Democratic Party.
vintx
(1,748 posts)Can't remember the name of the guy who is credited with normalizing this kind of stuff. I do know he later regretted his actions.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)Then they attacked Bernie's character, but that backfired too. He became even more popular.
Now they're reduced to attacking Bernie's supporters.
Pathetic.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Losing the rest of them didn't help, either.
senz
(11,945 posts)Bernie never had a "lead." He entered the race a virtual unknown and has steadily risen in popularity while Hillary has steadily fallen.
Shall I add an insincere little smilie? Ugh, no thanks.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Babel_17
(5,400 posts)People are looking harder than ever at the candidates. Good!
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)mainer
(12,022 posts)It fully blames HRC for being the first to go negative.