2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSO SHADY : Hillary Clinton Camp STAGED 'Vets Against Trump' Protest...
It seemed like an outpouring of veteran anger against Donald Trump: over a dozen former service members protesting outside Trump Tower.
But the reality was more complicated. The protest was actually a coordinated effort, led in part by the Hillary Clinton campaign, to embarrass her Republican rival for his failed efforts to raise money for veterans. It only looked like a grassroots demonstration.
A spokesman for the demonstrators insisted they had no affiliation with any campaign. Later he said the protesters had reached out to the Clinton campaign for press contacts, but thats all. Then the activist finally admitted that, yes, the Clinton campaign had helped organize the protest.
The Clinton campaign initially played down its role in the event, but Murray later said in a statement to The Daily Beast: [W]e were more than happy to lend some logistical support to the activists who organized todays protest and well be happy to do the same for any other veterans who want to speak out against Trumps shameful disrespect.
An organizer who participated in Saturdays Clinton campaign-led conference call also said McCoy had discouraged the participation of the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA) or other major veterans groups to prevent them from claiming the limelight. Nevertheless, one veterans organizer said, the result was an astroturfed political stunt rather than an expression of grassroots outrage.
Trump has time after time fucked us over, said the frustrated organizer. But what are we doing here? Why was the protest organized this way? Why were veterans groups shut out? Its disappointing.
more @ link:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/23/hillary-clinton-s-camp-staged-veterans-against-trump-protest.html
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)Nobody puts bumper stickers on their cars for her, nobody votes in online polls for her, but miraculously she wins elections!
Maybe this works against a naïve idealist like Bernie Sanders who didn't see the flim-flam until this month. But up against Donald Trump, who used to run *casinos* for cripes sakes? If there's anyone who understands rigging, it's a casino operator.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,681 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,339 posts)You seem to have some company, although I can't say it could be described as "good."
What do we see in this article if we try reading it without our Clinton-Derangement-Syndrome glasses on?
We see a few things, including a poorly proofed, ("the Clinton campaign should not be seen viewed as behind the organizer" logically inconsistent piece of work driven by obvious hatred of Clinton and somewhat questionable ability. When we cut through the factless and spittle-flecked content that serves only to illustrate the authors' opinion, this is what we have.
1. A man named Alexander McCoy was the spokesperson for the veterans group that organized over social media and protested Trump.
2. Mr. McCoy requested press contact assistance from the Clinton campaign.
3. The Clinton campaign organized a conference call where the campaign provided logistical and media advice to McCoy and those who organized the event.
4. McCoy expressed that vets showing up in organizational T-shirts was discouraged, but there was no attempt to block participation by any individual members of vets organizations.
5. The Clinton campaign has stated that they will be happy to assist any vets who wish to speak out against Trump and his behavior.
6. One person who is never named as a source in this article was obviously disgruntled for one reason or another.
People are territorial beings by nature, and those who organize groups, events and protests are often fiercely so. Some make a living at forming advocacy groups, and visibility is their bread and butter. The IAVA is mentioned, and it is implied heavily that someone from the IAVA wanted to send their members to the event dressed in their IAVA shirts, which would of course increase visibility for that group.
Mr. McCoy seems to be a contributor only at a site called "Task and Purpose." The rally event is not the headliner on that group's front page. It appears that Mr. McCoy was genuine in not wanting this to be about any single group of veterans, to have any particular group come in and, in essence, take the event over and make it about themselves. This, from what we read in the article, rubbed the unnamed source's fur all kinds of backwards.
So - we have one vet organizer who got his feelings hurt when his group was not allowed to become the focus of the event, and he lashed out by complaining to a writer at TDB whose hatred for Hillary shines so bright that she is willing to attack veterans who protest Trump to feed it. That's immature, sad and ugly, and not in any way admirable behavior. Assisting veterans to speak out against Trump - that is admirable.
angrychair
(8,697 posts)This was a clumsy and self-serving action on the part of the Clinton campaign.
Your little rant falls apart with this statement:
tRump's fake event for veterans was exposed weeks ago by Lawrence O'Donnell and IAVA were at the tip of the spear in speaking out on his show and exposing the fraud.
Protesting tRump for using vets as props and scamming people into thinking that tRump gives a shit about veterans is a worthy cause. Using veterans in some sort of AstroTurf 'protest' in perfect coordination with your own public speaking event where you are questioning tRump's integrity shows just as poor judgment.
While I will concede the point that it is very effective (candidate questions other candidate's integrity in speech and - just by coincidence - there is a protest from veterans about tRump lying to them), the optics are poor (self-serving. It really should have been about the vets but they were a means to an end in selling HRC's point that rTrump has no integrity, that, ironically, doesn't need a hard sell)
HubertHeaver
(2,522 posts)They really don't know any better.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)BootinUp
(47,141 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)stonecutter357
(12,695 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Vogon_Glory
(9,117 posts)So will the cyber-trolls pretending to be Bernistas.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)I'm laughing.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)That's pretty fucking pathetic.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Hillary would've dropped out around the time that Jeb! did. What's pretty fucking pathetic is Hillary Supporter pretending that she wouldn't be here today but for the machinations of the Party.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Hillary got more votes than Bernie and you just can't deal with it.
The party didn't give her those votes. People actually preferred Hillary over Bernie.
I think Bernie is actually the fake candidate. He pretends like the people support him, but in actuality more people support Hillary.
Too bad for you.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)You can't accept the fact that your candidate has fewer votes...so you make up sad excuses.
frylock
(34,825 posts)I'm rubber, you're glue.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)One Black Sheep
(458 posts)Trump loves to rant and bluster all day long about stuff like this, and we all know the media loves to give him the air time 24/7 for it as well. Hillary's campaign better be on the ball and if nothing else, more subtle than this attempt, unless they want things to backfire.
amborin
(16,631 posts)Hillarys Double-Standard on Protests
March 11, 2016
Exclusive: Hillary Clinton is lecturing Donald Trump on the need to respect protesters but in 2011 she did nothing to stop police from brutalizing a silent protester at one of her speeches, writes Robert Parry.
By Robert Parry
Hillary Clinton has excoriated Donald Trump for failing to stop a supporter from roughing up a protester during a speech, saying This kind of behavior is repugnant. We set the tone for our campaigns we should encourage respect, not violence. Yet, in 2011, she did nothing to stop security personnel from brutalizing a 71-year-old veteran who stood silently with his back to her during a speech.
The protester, Ray McGovern, a retired Army officer and CIA analyst, was wearing a black Veterans for Peace T-shirt, when he was set upon within sight of Secretary of State Clinton, who ironically was delivering a speech about the importance of foreign leaders respecting dissent. The assault on McGovern left him bruised and bloodied but it didnt cause Clinton to pause as she coolly continued on, not missing a beat.
Army veteran and ex-CIA analyst Ray McGovern, standing in protest of a speech by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Feb. 15, 2011.
The Feb. 15, 2011 incident at George Washington University in Washington prompted an email from Clintons personal adviser Sidney Blumenthal who noted that something bad happened and suggested that Clinton have someone reach out and apologize to McGovern. Clinton, however, chose not to do so....
Subsequently, McGovern was placed on the State Departments Be On the Look-out or BOLO alert list, instructing police to USE CAUTION, stop and question him and also contact the State Departments Diplomatic Security Command Center.
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/03/11/hillarys-double-standard-on-protests/
179
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)oasis
(49,378 posts)Bernie supporters so uneasy. a
senz
(11,945 posts)You wouldn't understand.
blue neen
(12,319 posts)Huh. Learn something new everyday.
merrily
(45,251 posts)blue neen
(12,319 posts)Also, why can't senz answer the question?
merrily
(45,251 posts)blue neen
(12,319 posts)This thread is about defending Donald Trump, so it's very confusing to see how "integrity" comes into account anywhere.
If we stop having threads defending Donald Trump's actions and non-actions, maybe there will be a little more clarity.
Bernie should be calling out Donald Trump for not defending Veterans. Sorry to see that he is not.
Done kicking this thread defending Trump.
Bye.
merrily
(45,251 posts)That's clear from the subject line. You don't have to agree, but pretending the thread is about something else so you can attack senz for supporting Sanders is not the way to go.
senz
(11,945 posts)blue neen
(12,319 posts)This whole thread seems to make no sense. You are all actually defending Donald Trump here and talking about "integrity". That word does not belong in any discussion of Trump.
Stop posting threads defending Donald Trump and there won't be any confusion.
Done.
senz
(11,945 posts)He wouldn't play these underhanded little games.
Bernie's real. He's not phony and not underhanded. That's why people trust him
Now get something straight: I didn't post this perfectly legitimate thread critical of a sneaky candidate.
Maru Kitteh
(28,339 posts)You will find this to be something entirely different.
From my earlier post:
What do we see in this article if we try reading it without our Clinton-Derangement-Syndrome glasses on?
We see a few things, including a poorly proofed, ("the Clinton campaign should not be seen viewed as behind the organizer" logically inconsistent piece of work driven by obvious hatred of Clinton and somewhat questionable ability. When we cut through the factless and spittle-flecked content that serves only to illustrate the authors' opinion, this is what we have.
1. A man named Alexander McCoy was the spokesperson for the veterans group that organized over social media and protested Trump.
2. Mr. McCoy requested press contact assistance from the Clinton campaign.
3. The Clinton campaign organized a conference call where the campaign provided logistical and media advice to McCoy and those who organized the event.
4. McCoy expressed that vets showing up in organizational T-shirts was discouraged, but there was no attempt to block participation by any individual members of vets organizations.
5. The Clinton campaign has stated that they will be happy to assist any vets who wish to speak out against Trump and his behavior.
6. One person who is never named as a source in this article was obviously disgruntled for one reason or another.
People are territorial beings by nature, and those who organize groups, events and protests are often fiercely so. Some make a living at forming advocacy groups, and visibility is their bread and butter. The IAVA is mentioned, and it is implied heavily that someone from the IAVA wanted to send their members to the event dressed in their IAVA shirts, which would of course increase visibility for that group.
Mr. McCoy seems to be a contributor only at a site called "Task and Purpose." The rally event is not the headliner on that group's front page. It appears that Mr. McCoy was genuine in not wanting this to be about any single group of veterans, to have any particular group come in and, in essence, take the event over and make it about themselves. This, from what we read in the article, rubbed the unnamed source's fur all kinds of backwards.
So - we have one vet organizer who got his feelings hurt when his group was not allowed to become the focus of the event, and he lashed out by complaining to a writer at TDB whose hatred for Hillary shines so bright that she is willing to attack veterans who protest Trump to feed it. That's immature, sad and ugly, and not in any way admirable behavior. Assisting veterans to speak out against Trump - that is admirable.
Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #121)
Matt_R This message was self-deleted by its author.
TwilightZone
(25,467 posts)Reading is fundamental.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Judgment...
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)LOL! Stealing this with no misgivings!
JudyM
(29,233 posts)pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)JudyM
(29,233 posts)pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)More like this - Our Lady of Perpetual Poor Judgement
Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)Response to oasis (Reply #8)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
oasis
(49,378 posts)He's the one with 'splaining to do.
Response to oasis (Reply #19)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
oasis
(49,378 posts)praise of the man. That's how "bromances" get started.
Response to oasis (Reply #26)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
oasis
(49,378 posts)They are the real "third rail of politics".
Response to oasis (Reply #35)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Not a vet myself. Respect to those of you who are!
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)BootinUp
(47,141 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)oasis
(49,378 posts)jack_krass
(1,009 posts)When Bernie could have run on his integrity
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)Integrity is so yesterday. Who needs integrity and ethics when we can use dirty tricks and cheap, poorly done stunts like this. Bernie could beat Trump in a walk. No need to stoop to these low, pathetic tactics. Hillary and Trump are driving down voter turnout even before the GE. We will have a contest between David Brock & Roger Stone to see who can bury which candidate in a cesspool of smears.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)AND Bernie, while they both savage her. It truly is unbelievable.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)Some have already excused this behavior! Wtf is going on? I guess shame left the building.
senz
(11,945 posts)have no standards. Therefore, no shame.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)I have reservations about saying it but some seem to be teetering on fanaticism.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)So glad you are on his team.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)"I made a mistake "
AzDar
(14,023 posts)simply mind blowing...but it's all good to some.
Trump Will Have A Field Day With This...
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)Sad to see our party stooping to such tactics. Not surprising at all, just sad.
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)And hiring Brock tells us all we need to know.
senz
(11,945 posts)Wouldn't it be better to have a president we can trust?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)RandySF
(58,786 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)BootinUp
(47,141 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)and Senators fearing for their lives (presumably not of sniper fire in this case, though) after flipping voters off.
If you can somehow drag the Pope into it, that would really round things out.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Fake, fake, fake.
Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #21)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
travisjbailey
(7 posts)Nevertheless, one veterans organizer said, the result was an astroturfed political stunt rather than an expression of grassroots outrage.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)tirebiter
(2,536 posts)One night in January, Donald Trump skipped a GOP debate and instead held his own televised fundraiser for veterans. At the end of the night, Trump proclaimed it a huge success: We just cracked $6 million, right? Six million.
Now, Trumps campaign says that number is incorrect.
The comments appear to be the first acknowledgment almost four months later that Trumps fundraiser had brought in less than the candidate said. Lewandowski said he did not know the exact total raised or how much of it remained unspent.
In recent weeks, Trump and his campaign repeatedly declined to give new details about how much they have given away.
Why should I give you records? Trump said in an interview with The Post this month. I dont have to give you records.
Paul Rieckhoff, founder of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, said Trumps refusal to divulge how much of the money he had distributed raised questions about whether the candidate intended the fundraiser primarily as a public-relations effort for himself.
Thats just shady. Right? No matter how you cut it, thats just shady, Rieckhoff said. If he was going to make it right, a couple of weeks before Memorial Day would be a good time to do it. It behooves him, not just politically but ethically, to come forward and account for this money.
Trump provided no official way for charities to apply for the money. Groups around the country still tried, sending letters and hitting up local veterans-for-Trump leaders.
We havent heard anything, said Judy Schaffer of Heroes to Heroes, a New Jersey-based group that sends veterans on nondenominational trips to Israel to prevent suicide and promote spiritual healing. Her group had received a donation from Trumps personal foundation years before.
We have a waiting list of over 200 veterans. Many of them have already attempted suicide, Schaffer said this week. And it keeps me up at night, not being able to send more people.
Trump staged an event to skip a debate, claimed he raised $6M, can't account for how much or who received any of it. This is the story making the front pages.
oasis
(49,378 posts)Trump's donation shenanigans. What's that telling you?
Response to oasis (Reply #32)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
dinkytron
(568 posts)There is nothing zen or intuitive about them. It will be their downfall. It never works.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)The mass adoption of the internet has changed the PR game mightily.
What the powers that be haven't yet come to grips with is that plenty of smart people don't necessarily have anything better to do than sit around looking into the details of anything you can think of.
Combine that with a naturally authoritarian personality and you get the Clinton campaign.
dinkytron
(568 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Why must she tread on poor Donald Trump. Good fucking gawd!
cali
(114,904 posts)the hands of trump and the rethugs. It supports the negative image she has with many voters.
If you're going to astroturf, do it well. Don't get caught doing it.
72DejaVu
(1,545 posts)What new low will she sink to next?
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)Maybe try a cup of juice or tea?
Lol, ow my butt.
merrily
(45,251 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I have links on du showing just how bigoted that sites membership is. They are outright blatant and don't hide it.
http://jackpineradicals.org/showthread.php?7586-America-s-First-Gay-President-Hillary-Clinton
merrily
(45,251 posts)you disagree with a entirely different post by a different author on the same site is both absurd and ridiculously authoritarian. Supporting Hillary is not the reason for every board's existence. Reasonable adults can cope with that.
I link to my posts at DU and I don't agree with every post on this site. Hell, I haven't even read every post on either site, let alone agree with all of them; and Jackpine Radicals censors less than DU. You obviously favor more censorship.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Sorry for saying you shouldn't link there. That was over the top.
merrily
(45,251 posts)but that does not stop me from posting here or linking to my own DU posts or other DU posts.
Claiming I should not link to something I wrote because you want another board to censor what you would like censored is way too authoritarian and pro-censorship for me. If you don't want to follow the link to a post I wrote, don't follow it. If you don't think people should link to JPR, stop linking to it. But, I guess controlling only one's own behavior, rather than the behavior of other posters on other boards, can be frustrating for some people.
My own view is that I'd rather know what is out there because I can't censor all of America when it comes to the general. However, that is not the view of the owner of this board and most of the time, I try to respect rules of a board on which I post. I did deliberately say fuck you to one poster a couple of years ago, knowing I was violating the rules. Apart from that, I can't think of an intentional violation.
stonecutter357
(12,695 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)The Clinton campaign helps organize a protest against TRUMP and Democrats are supposed to be upset? I must have fallen through a dimensional rift and ended up in Bizarro DU, right?
Of course, no real Democrats are upset about this. Just the Not Hillary Party.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I voted to leave it (I am a Hillary supporter). It was a 4-3 leave in the end.
I don't get why this is bad. Hillary's campaign helped veterans to organise an event they were already going to put on, to help defeat Trump. How is this shady or a smear?
Once again, I guess I and other Hillary supporters are not "pure" enough for some Bernie supporters, who apparently want to take the highest possible road even if it hamstrings their candidate. I don't see anything wrong with this story, but even if you think it's a bit on the manipulative side, I say GOOD. Is the goal not to defeat Trump? This is still a democratic board, right?
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)The first thing that happened was that the Clinton campaign decided to organize an anti-Trump event. Nothing bad about that, IMO.
The next thing that happened was that the campaign deliberately excluded legitimate veterans' organizations "to prevent them from claiming the limelight." That was bad judgment. The campaign wanted complete control of the message, which raises a legitimate inference that the campaign was interested in the veterans' situation only to the extent that it could be exploited to make Trump look bad.
Having made these plans, the campaign then "initially played down its role in the event...." The spokesman for the demonstrators was, according to the linked article, even more dishonest in that regard, and I don't think it's TFH-land to suspect that the campaign strongly advised the veterans to misrepresent the facts. That lack of candor about the event organizing was worse than the bad judgment in the event organizing.
The next thing that happened was that Clinton supporters on DU displayed just about every ignoble reaction possible. In several responses upthread, and in an entire thread on the subject in their own group, they stated or insinuated: that the reporting of this news was bad; that the posting here meant that Bernie supporters "went off the deep end on Hillary" because Bernie "has taught them to hate Hillary"; that the post means that Bernie supporters believe "that Trump has integrity" and "love Trump" and are, in fact, "on his team."
To cap all that, one of them (I can't prove it was one of them but I'll bet the rent money on it) alerted, and three jurors voted to hide the OP and lock the thread.
To clarify for people who seem to be comprehension-impaired: One can believe that Trump is a blowhard AND believe that the veterans got the shaft AND believe that the demonstration was justified AND believe that the misrepresentation about the organizing was wrong AND believe that Trump's misrepresentation about the help to veterans was wrong AND believe that even on, yes, "Democratic" Underground it's reasonable to post criticisms of a Democrat AND believe that, despite all foregoing, Trump does not have integrity and does not deserve to have any DUers on his team. I, for one, believe all those things.
We used to mock the Republicans for not being able to follow nuance. Bush and his ilk said or implied that anyone opposing Bush on anything was in league with al-Qaeda. It's really depressing that we see the same mindset on DU. Apparently, to some people, there are only two conceivable points of view: Hillary can do no wrong, and everything else. Anyone criticizing Hillary about anything is engaged in "Hillary-hating" and must be a "Trump-humper".
Thank you, auntpurl, for displaying integrity by voting to leave the OP alone. I hope that doesn't get you ostracized by all the Clinton zealots who've voiced their indignation about the reposting of a news report.
mrdmk
(2,943 posts)vintx
(1,748 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Lady_Chat
(561 posts)Nothing wrong with asking for accountability from this braggart. Remember what repubs did to John Kerry? Swifttboated. He had to defend his military service. He had nothing to defend, he served honorably. I remember what they did in NY for the 2004 GOP convention, wearing purple heart band aids. Disgusting. And Trump should get away with promising money to Vets and not delivering? Give me a break.
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)Should she get away with claiming that while she was evading campaign spending laws to stuff her campaign with money?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Why is Trump so special that nobody should protest him or help organize a Veterans protest against a man who straight up lied about raising money for them? I refuse to be a Trump fan.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)No, we do not love Trump. No, we are not Trump fans. This insinuation is not only false, it is monumentally stupid. That it is repeated like a drumbeat by other Clinton supporters does not make it any less stupid.
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)If Hillary Clinton becomes President, I will be upset, for reasons that should be no secret to any progressive who reads this forum.
If Donald Trump becomes President, I will be even more upset. If you actually cared about my opinion, you would have found me criticizing Trump right in this very thread. (Here's a helpful hint: "Will you still need me/Will you still feed me...."
I also have more than one post elsewhere talking about how I would face the looming unpleasant choice between those two. (Here's a helpful hint: "clothespin".)
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)Because they think it will prove a lot of their BS about Hillary correct.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)This thread is unbelievable. Shame on the Admins for allowing this here.
TwilightZone
(25,467 posts)They're positively jumping up and down with glee at the prospect.
Just look at the threads showing the (meaningless) head-to-head polls.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)this thread. I've seen less Clinton Derangement Syndrome on some right wing sites.
MuseRider
(34,105 posts)this is about all of us. They aren't just rat fucking Trump, they are lying to all of us. It is just this kind of bullshit that this country does not need.
Potemkin is a perfect description. How anyone could vote for someone who would stoop this low is more than I can even comprehend and a huge problem for our country.
LuvLoogie
(6,995 posts)The Revolution to Make America Great Again!
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)SharonClark
(10,014 posts)Dem2
(8,168 posts)Huh.
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)and it's only made worse by that fake laugh and unbridled arrogance.
Millions of ill-gotten money probably destroys any sense of self-awareness. And nobody on the Clinton gravy train is going to fall on their sword and inform her that she's coming off as a total fraud.
Haveadream
(1,630 posts)This was not a "Clinton" campaign event. It was a protest put together by Marine veteran Alexander McCoy. Could it have been a larger, more well organized event? Yes. But, that is what happens when your every day Joe and a few other people want to have their voices heard and have the courage to actually get out there in public and do it.
Alexander reached out to the Clinton campaign for PRESS CONTACTS. The Clinton campaign offered that and some nominal logistical assistance (a conference call for attendees) for his cause. And the Clinton campaign has made it clear they are happy to help any other groups as well. Nothing is stopping other groups from doing so. That is stated repeatedly in the article.
Amidst all the nasty put downs and smug judgements of naysayers, do any of you critics actually give a **** about him and his group fellow vets who actually got out there and pushed back against the Trump machine? Do you care about his message? Or, are you too caught up in finding ways to attack Clinton that his very legit cause is being drowned out in your BS. If you actually care, do something about it. I mean, what were all you folks who are insulting his efforts doing Monday while he stood out there on the sidewalk in NY getting jeered at by Trump supporters? Right. Thought so.
And, unlike the OP, I don't blame Alexander a bit for not wanting to have his message ABOUT TRUMP, hijacked by another agenda. It is his and the other Vet's protest. The fact that some Sander's supporters would have liked it to be a different protest made is ON them. Organize your own rather than demeaning this small group of Vets who actually showed up to challenge Trump. They are appalled by Trump, his lies and his use of Vets while doing NOTHING for them. And you know what they got for their effort? Trump supporters and people like you putting them down. Window washers dumping water on them. News agencies and posters on DU making it about Hillary instead of the Vets, their message and Trump. This is not about Hillary no matter how much some would like to spin the message to make it more "newsworthy." For me, what Alexander and his fellow Vets have to say is incredibly important and enough.
If Alexander or any of the Vets who showed up to the protest are reading this, know you are awesome. Thank you for your service, thank you for standing up and thank you for calling out Trump despite all the BS. I hear you. Other people hear you. You are heroes.
Mad props to you all. Thank you!
TwilightZone
(25,467 posts)I see that you conveniently left out McCoy's response to the allegations from the middle of your quoted passage.
"McCoy disputed that characterization, telling The Daily Beast he expressed concern on the call about Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America members showing up in IAVA T-shirts, which could send a confused message about the focus of the protest. There was no attempt to block IAVA or other veterans groups, he said."
AzDar
(14,023 posts)At Mondays protest, Marine veteran and Clinton supporter Alexander McCoy served as a spokesman for the demonstratorsand went to great lengths to hide the Clinton campaigns involvement with organizing the demonstration.
Were not affiliated with any campaign, were not affiliated with any organization, McCoy told reporters, saying the protesters used grassroots organizing techniques, we came together over social media.
McCoy later told The Daily Beast he reached out to the Clinton campaign to obtain press contacts but denied that Clinton staffers had been involved in organizing the event.
Then, reached by phone after the event, McCoy acknowledged that the Clinton campaign organized the conference call bringing together possible attendees to the protest.
Sorry... NO.
I, like most, tend to believe the Organizer who WASN'T CAUGHT LYING regarding the event and directly disputes the deceitful Clinton Operative:
"An organizer who participated in Saturdays Clinton campaign-led conference call also said McCoy had discouraged the participation of the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA) or other major veterans groups to prevent them from claiming the limelight."
Is it any wonder people don't trust Clinton?
Haveadream
(1,630 posts)Alexander McCoy served six years in the Marine Corps, separating in 2013 at the rank of Sergeant. As a Marine, he deployed to Saudi Arabia, Honduras, and Germany in support of the U.S. Department of State. His writing on foreign policy, defense and veterans issues has also appeared in Reuters, Foreign Policy, the Jerusalem Post, the Daily Mail, and the Journal of Political Risk. He is the Marine Corps co-chair for Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Tom Ricks' Council of the Former Enlisted, and currently studies political science at Columbia University in New York City. He serves on the board of the Ivy League Veterans Council, which advocates on behalf of veterans in higher education, and High Ground Veterans Advocacy, which trains veterans to become grassroots activists.
His statements are consistent. The fact that he did not want his message to be hijacked by a different cause means he didn't want his message hijacked by a different cause. He wanted it to be about Trump. This is not difficult to understand. Alexander is actually a hero and a remarkable and accomplished human being. Petty, small minded smears based on partisan and fact free conjecture will never change that. I am incredibly proud someone of his caliber supports Hillary.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)"At Mondays protest, Marine veteran and Clinton supporter Alexander McCoy served as a spokesman for the demonstratorsand went to great lengths to hide the Clinton campaigns involvement with organizing the demonstration.
Were not affiliated with any campaign, were not affiliated with any organization, McCoy told reporters, saying the protesters used grassroots organizing techniques, we came together over social media.
McCoy later told The Daily Beast he reached out to the Clinton campaign to obtain press contacts but denied that Clinton staffers had been involved in organizing the event.
Then, reached by phone after the event, McCoy acknowledged that the Clinton campaign organized the conference call bringing together possible attendees to the protest."
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)I don't see how this is a problem. Trump is the Republican nominee.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)scumbag Trump who actually did defraud VETS.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/veterans-charities-await-funds-raised-by-donald-trump-1460069309
http://therightscoop.com/cnn-we-can-only-account-for-800k-of-the-6-million-trump-promised-would-go-to-veteran
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/18/politics/donald-trump-veterans-group/
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Historic NY
(37,449 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)timmymoff
(1,947 posts)This is what we are becoming, yet people say we are different. This is clearly an example of how we are not. If you think this is an excellent tactic you are mistaken. If you think the only problem was them getting caught, you are the problem.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)But screaming "SO SHADY" in all caps is not the sign of a person who is trying to help Democrats; this is a person that attacks Democrats all day long everyday.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)If you have some belief of dem infallibility you need to abandon that quick.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)Perhaps you should actually try using your eyes to read the words that are in front of your face before responding?
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)your issue was with the poster and not what he/ she posted. Former actions of the poster as well.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)I'll stick with legitimate criticism, without the slanderous right wing attack language, thank you very much.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)stupid move, getting caught proves it even more. Especially when you already have trust issues. Here is what you really want. " shhhhh Hillary just screwed up again, but let's be silent about it and hope another lapse of judgment doesn't get noticed." Kind of a sad place to be I imagine.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)But I don't know when I see that kind of language from a poster who has never ever posted anything positive, one might tend to think that they had an agenda.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)could be finally held accountable. Campaign, person , staffer. Seems like quite a misstep considering trust issues again. Caught astroturfing and swiftboating is sort of a bad optic.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Operation PRICETAG/SWITCHER or something like that.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)timmymoff
(1,947 posts)I absolutely despise Trump, but how often can you get caught doing this kind of shit? It's so stupid and plays right into his hand.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)riding the coattails of the vets, using them and their good name, and "losing" millions of dollars he "fundraised" on their behalf?
Seems like there are a certain faction of "Dems" on this site that are hell bent on pressing every single bad meme on Hillary and are forgetting there are Republicans that truly deserve the scorn.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)In my post that you responded too I believe I expressed my displeasure for Mr. Trump. Seems to me like the Hillary campaign is showing us how they will snatch defeat from the hands of victory.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I didn't use your exact terms but in #64 I pointed out that Trump had misrepresented his supposed "support" for the veterans and that they had actually gotten the shaft.
I added a point you omitted, that Trump is a blowhard.
Admittedly, though, I don't go out of my way to heap scorn on Trump or other Republicans on every conceivable occasion. You're right that they deserve it. It would be full-time job, though, and one of dubious value. I think most DUers will end up voting against Trump without such piling on.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)trudyco
(1,258 posts)were trying to count hanging chads.
At least these were real protesters... but shutting certain vet groups out was bad.
Oh yeah, and wasn't there the fake plumber? Wonder when she will try that one. Or the photoshopped pictures of events to make it look like more people were there than there actually were.
So many Rove Wannabes, so little time.
skylucy
(3,739 posts)are supported by the Hillary campaign /Democratic Party. This outrages many members of Democratic Underground. They are furious with the Democrat who will be running against Trump because her campaign gave some help to the anti Trump veterans. OK. As if it wasn't already pretty obvious what is going on here.... Now let's see if the donkey gets alerted.
Hillary's campaign helps a group to call out Trump and "Democrats" on here criticize her for it?
just when you think you've seen this place hit rock bottom, someone goes and proves you wrong
AzDar
(14,023 posts)tirebiter
(2,536 posts)OK, Mother Jones is akready under the bus for some folks
>Our story so far: on January 28, Donald Trump pledged $1 million at a charity fundraiser for veterans. Four months later, after considerable digging, the Washington Post was unable to find any evidence that he had made good on his pledge, so they asked his campaign manager about it. On Friday, Corey Lewandowski said "The money is fully spent. Mr. Trumps money is fully spent." So who did he give it to? "He's not going to share that information."
>So the Post kept digging all day Monday. Finally, on Tuesday, we learned that Lewandowski had lied. Trump had not, in fact, given any money to anyone:
>Trump said in an interview Tuesday that he pledged the $1 million to the Marine Corps - Law Enforcement Foundation. The mogul notified the group's chairman, retired FBI official James Kallstrom, in a phone call sometime Monday night, according to Kallstrom's wife, Sue Kallstrom.
>The Washington Post had been querying charities on social media, trying to find evidence that his $1 million had been received by any veterans' groups. Trump fulfilled his pledge hours later, it appears.
>Why had it taken almost four months? "You have a lot of vetting to do," Trump said....When asked if the Monday donation was in response to questions from the news media, Trump said: "You know, youre a nasty guy. Youre really a nasty guy. I gave out millions of dollars that I had no obligation to do."
>Even for Trump, this is inexplicable. Whenever you think he can't possibly be a bigger douche, he proves you wrong. What a revolting human being he is.
And that is the point.