When we say Hillary is a terrible candidate and you say "Well she beat Bernie..."

[Bonobo]

I hope you are able to understand that we are talking about the GE.

I mean you get that, right? Right?

[JoePhilly]

1. If she loses, then you can say she was a terrible candidate ...

... so keep your fingers crossed and hope that happens, I guess.

[Bonobo]

3. Headline: "Joe haz sad"? nt

[libdem4life]

4. They backed the wrong candidate. That's what is wrong.

So smug.

[griffi94]

11. Haha Says you

But if you thought Bernie was going to be our nominee
then your judgement is a but suspect.

[Bonobo]

20. As is your spelling. nt

[griffi94]

25. OHHH the typo police.

Bernie lost.

Hillary will be our nominee.
Sorry but votes matter.
Typos...not so much. Lol.

[Bonobo]

28. Wooo Wooo Wooo. Pull over, sir. nt

[lagomorph777]

90. Going by "future tense = past tense" meme,

then you can also say "Hillary lost":

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-sanders

[griffi94]

91. As far as I know

no votes have been cast in the GE.

Bernie is hundreds of delegates and millions of votes behind.
There aren't enough states left for him to close the gap.

Hillary needs about 100 more delegates to clinch.

Those are facts.

Your link is to an opinion poll for an election that is 6 months out.

The campaign for the GE hasn't even started yet.

Bernie isn't going to be the nominee.

Sorry.
Maybe you should start working on getting used to it.

[LanternWaste]

83. You should inform the Sanders campaign of an irrelevant typo.

You should inform the Sanders campaign of an irrelevant typo as it may assist his efforts more so than his current enterprises.

Or, the typo is merely irrelevant and pointing towards it as somehow material is merely another exercise is grade school petulance.




(space provided free of charge below to rationalize petulance as righteous, pure and noble...)

[libdem4life]

27. Reading comprehension is a bit spotty.

Post makes no sense.

[Demsrule86]

87. Our right as Americans to vote for whom we choose

Your post is condescending.

[FreakinDJ]

6. She is loosing in the latest polling against Trump

and yes that does count

[griffi94]

15. It only counts to disgruntled Bernie supporters

It's still not going to make Bernie the nominee because
he's getting beat by hundreds of delegates and millions of votes.

[brush]

17. She's fighting on two fronts

Trump and the Trojan Horse.

[mia]

48. Trump and her own persona.

Hillary is an admirable human being who must be at war with her conscience.

[timmymoff]

54. I think she is more fighting her various policy positions

she is having a hard time keeping track of them now. It's easier to just tell the truth.

[ViseGrip]

2. When more than dems can vote, she loses to Bernie. He would be her third party.

[mythology]

8. Clinton has won 11 open primaries, Sanders has won 4 (one of which was Vermont)

Please stop repeating such an obviously incorrect talking point.

Sanders mostly wins caucuses which have much lower turnout.

[2banon]

71. Not talking about Primaries, talking about the General

different animal

[mythology]

85. Except it serves to illustrate that there isn't evidence

That Sanders would win if independents were allowed to vote.

Also general election polls this far out are useless. So any contention that Sanders would win the general election is just blind supposition.

And finally the way to get to the general election is to win the primary. Sanders won't do that.

[redstateblues]

5. The Rs would loop video of Bernie promising to raise taxes

On the middle class and Bernie's approval rate would be in the teens. The last democrat to run on raising taxes on the middle class won one State

[FreakinDJ]

7. With increases in Obamacare 0f 50% - I think everyone understands the math

[redstateblues]

33. Bernie Mondale

[Ed Suspicious]

70. Hillary Thatcher

[Scootaloo]

12. What is Clinton running on? Be specific.

[brush]

23. Not to mention all the Trotskyite and Marxist stuff in his background.

[w4rma]

61. Here is what the GOP IS doing to Clinton: GOP ad calls Clinton 'a living history of scandal'

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/280373-gop-ad-clinton-is-dems-burden-to-bear

That's not a false hypothetical.

And then there is the fact that she isn't trusted by even a majority of Americans.

Why Voters Don't Trust Hillary Clinton
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/07/28/why_voters_dont_trust_hillary_clinton_127567.html

[griffi94]

9. That doesn't really matter does it

She beat Bernie in the primary so it
doesn't really matter how Bernie polls
against Trump in the GE.

Bernie isn't goint to be our nominee.

Polls could show that Bernie beats Trump by 100%

But Bernie isn't going to run against Trump
because Hillary is going to be out nominee.

[Bonobo]

14. I suppose if you don't care about the GE results then yes, it doesn't matter. nt

[griffi94]

22. Hillary will be the nominee

If she loses to Trump that will suck.
But if more people vote for Trump then oh well.

That's how it works.
The most votes win.

Bernie didn't get the most votes.
How he polls in hypothetical matches with Trump
are irrelevent.

Like who would win in a fight between Batman and some other comic book character.

It's not going to happen so it doesn't matter.

[Bonobo]

32. It is 100% relevant to the OP.

Unlike your responses.

[hrmjustin]

10. We know it will be a fight in November.

[SwampG8r]

81. And due to the actions of her campaign and her supporters

A lot of us are just going to stand on the sidelines and watch and what you will need is Us in with you fighting the fight
As for myself I'll be on the sidelines and voting down ticket she's already said through her supporters that she doesn't need my vote
And their actions bear that out

[Zorro]

13. If she's a terrible candidate and beating Bernie

then Bernie is an even more terrible candidate for the GE.

[Bonobo]

18. Thanks for the display of lack of logical thinking I am referring to. nt

[Zorro]

21. Oh I can spot a loser from a mile away

Not hard when they're 3 million votes behind in the primaries.

[Bonobo]

29. I wonder if you understand where your logic is all fucked up. Do you? Be honest. nt

[anigbrowl]

64. You don't exactly strike me as the sharpest knife in the drawer yourself, you know.

Sorry but watching you lecture other people about logic is pretty amusing.

[demwing]

30. Wow, your complete lack of awareness would be comical

If it weren't so saddening, bless your soul!

[Zorro]

35. Hmmmm

I must be completely lacking in the awareness that Clinton is leading Bernie by millions of votes in the primaries, and will bring in millions more of Republican voters in the GE who can't stand the idea of Trump as their nominee.

[Bonobo]

37. Polls show your hypothesis to be untrue.

Facts are stubborn.

[Zorro]

38. Polls six months out don't mean much

That's a well-established fact.

[Bonobo]

42. Weak rejoinder indeed.

Although the numbers may shift somewhat, the comparison of the head to heads of Sanders VS. Trump and Hillary VS. Trump of course have great meaning.

[Zorro]

43. Let's see the matchup between Fidel Sanders vs. Trumpzilla

Yes, I'm certain the numbers would shift somewhat.

[Bonobo]

44. You now sound like you have given up arguing like an adult. nt

[Zorro]

50. You are ignoring the opportunity Trump will take to flog Bernie like a rented mule

over his past engagements with various "left wing" Latin American miscreants who have been unfriendly to the USA.

Fair or not, I think Bernie's poll numbers would nosedive in short order once that assault starts. And no amount of Bernie bluster will be able to counteract it.

[Bonobo]

51. Your opinion vs. consistent polling? Hmmm, let me weight that for a minute.....................

Yup, your opinion doesn't carry much weight in that matchup either.

[Lizzie Poppet]

69. Wouldn't that require having first begun to do so?

Not sure I'm willing to take that as a given...

[2banon]

72. ahh. Red Baiting really drives the point home!

[Zorro]

80. You think Trump wouldn't go there?

He'd then rake Bernie over the coals about his illegitimate son, and as soon as Bernie begins waving his finger around Trump would interrupt and mock him with some quip like "Hey, you trying to poke my eye out or something?" and from there on out that's what would stick in peoples' minds.

Bernie's popularity would drop like a rock after such a one-on-one with Trump.

[2banon]

82. ,,

[demwing]

41. Bernie beats everyone nationally

Clinton does well only with a subset of the Dem party.

And your lack of awareness may be limitless, for we can tell...

[BootinUp]

16. Sure, and when we and the 3 million more Hillary supporters disagree, you get that right?

[Bonobo]

19. See post #18. nt

[brooklynite]

24. Yes we understand what you mean...

...somehow you don't seem to understand the same thing about Bernie:

A self-described Socialist proposing huge tax increases

an ideological fringe candidate seeking votes from a middle of the road electorate

a candidate unable to frame a contemporary foreign policy message at a time of growing unease about US vulnerability to terrorism, and who appears largely uninterested in the subject

a candidate unable to relate to African Americans, a significant share of the Democratic base

[Bonobo]

31. Can you explain the many, many polls that show Bernie to be the better candidate VS. Trump?

Or are you going to repeat the rather stale "It doesn't mean anything at this point."?

[redstateblues]

36. Bernie(I promise to raise taxes)Mondale

[uponit7771]

53. yeap, instead of going after the mic Sanders wants to raise taxes

[amborin]

39. why repeat falsehoods? oh, wait; as you know, only those making >250K will face significant tax incr

[Bonobo]

46. Because...

[onecaliberal]

26. It doesn't even count all the dems.

[anotherproletariat]

34. Many people decided to back Hillary because we think that once Bernie is attacked

by the GOP, that he would be a far worse candidate. At least with Hillary, we knew the attacks they had in mind, and she has weathered them in the past. The Democrats have never defended a candidate from charges of being socialist, atheist, tax happy, pro-pot with no foreign policy experience. Given the current conservative mood of most of the country, that seemed like a much bigger climb.

I still feel this way. This is the biggest reason I don't think the polls done now are of any value. No one has ever run a negative ad against any of these qualities of Sanders, and until they do, the polls are not accurate.

[amborin]

40. reckless regime change that created chaos and disaster in the ME is "foreign policy experience"

[d_legendary1]

49. Wha?

"The Democrats have never defended a candidate from charges of being socialist, atheist, tax happy, pro-pot with no foreign policy experience."

Wasn't Obama a Marxist, Muslim, tax and spend, pro-crack cocaine smoking liberal with no foreign policy experience?

[Jack Bone]

55. ^^^^^ THAT RIGHT THERE ^^^^^

[BillZBubb]

56. Crazy right? Some of these lame Hillary apologist statements

are just so incomprehensibly ignorant.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. They must have been children or have memory issues

and I am not kidding.

[John Poet]

68. HRC backers ' incomprehensibly ignorant' ? Thou hast seen nothing, yet...

Illustration of what I've long suspected: Hillary's backers will excuse or even support any nutjob position that they even think SHE espouses--

&sns=fb


I think they are known as 'low information voters'....

[imari362]

58. KA-BOOM

[Warren DeMontague]

57. Yeah, "pro pot" is really a dealbreaker

Seeing as it's still 1973, and all.

[Bonobo]

60. "Given the current conservative mood of most of the country, that seemed like a much bigger climb"

You are terribly wrong on this point as well.

The mood is Populist.

[Warren DeMontague]

73. To be fair, a lot of these folks never saw the sea change in attitudes towards marriage equality

coming until it was right up under their noses, too.

The David Brock, beltway 'conventional wisdom' crowd was telling them that the all-powerful values voter would have none of it, until it simply was too big to ignore.

That's why so many politicians (cough) have painfully embarrassing anti-marriage equality statements from just 5-10 years ago, to explain away or live down.

Millennials are pushing the "mood" of this country in a far more progressive direction than it has ever been before, and ironically it is the boomers, by and large, who are losing their shit over it.

[Bonobo]

74. It is ironic. Isn't it?

It's always hard to accept the fact that you have aged and your "Progressive spirit" mellowed into rather rigid conservatism like your parents but accentuated with the trappings and mementos of "liberal-ishiness".

[libdem4life]

84. All before Emgailgate, the SOS debacle, and Clinton Foundationgate.

No one has ever "vetted" her publicly on these, so it automatically goes back to the rest as even more negatives. She Is Not Trusted. EOS. To say she's the best of the two evils is about all that is possible.

Bernie's years in the Senate and years of getting elected and holding office...on his own...would overshadow any of the attacks. Plus, he doesn't fight. He does a judo move, and steps aside from the smears, and then just continues his message.

Oh, he does point...at least not in the chest of someone asking him questions.

[Demsrule86]

88. She still beat your

increasingly shrill and spiteful candidate.

[libdem4life]

89. Sorry, it's not over. So save the victory party.

Is it likely? Yes. Is it foolproof...lots of water still going under. And how, with the Primaries still ongoing, do you use the past tense? "beat...as opposed to beating." Must be a lack of grammar training.

Written with love and kindness...the last part, free grammar check.

[ContinentalOp]

45. You understand that the GE is not a caucus, right?

She won the most open primaries, the most closed primaries, the most red states, the most blue states, the most swing states, and most of the bigger states with lots of electoral votes. By what measure does a GE help Bernie? Do you think millions of Republicans are suddenly going to wake up, realize they nominated Trump, and decide to vote for a socialist?

[Bonobo]

47. "By what measure does a GE help Bernie?"

Huh?

[ContinentalOp]

75. How is the GE more favorable to Bernie than the Democratic primaries?

Clinton has won more open primaries, more closed primaries, red states, blue states, and swing states. What advantage would a GE suddenly give Bernie that would radically change his performance from where it's been in the primaries? The only area he excels in is caucuses which are nothing like a GE at all.

[Bonobo]

77. Look at the polls. nt

[ContinentalOp]

78. No thanks

[elleng]

52. Many don't,

and appear NOT to recognize the importance of CHANGE this time. Dems don't run a 'change' candidate, what happens? DUH?!

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. You live abroad, and I visiit mom abroad

so you probably know that this theme of her weakness in a GE has been there for MONTHS... before polling.

So riddle me this one How can people are not in the US, see her weakness miles, even stellar units away, but Americans can't? I got a theory, and i think part of it is the US med... err propaganda machine, which today did turn on a fucking dime. Yup, they are going there NOW... MONTHS AFTER foreign media (and to be fair Foreign Policy) did.

Oh and I do hope you are doing fine these days.

[Bonobo]

63. That's probably an excellent point.

I have not seen MSNBC or CNN in years and years.]

I am doing well, Nadin, thank you for saying that. I hope you are too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. I am too

speaking of CNN. I was with mom for one of the primaries. And it was one of the most surreal experiences ever. We were watching CNN-I, pretty good actually. So the reporter from the Sanders rally explains the numbers, how the primaries work... gives a delegate count not including super delegates. I mean a good solid, neutral report, Informative too. I actually learned stuff.

Ten minutes later they go to wolf to do the returns from Atlanta. Same reporter, same report. but this time he included the supers and added a lot of shall we say, lovely guiding opinion. I sat there for ten minutes STUNNED

And since we did cover the Sanders rally in San Diego, I was able to tell the reporter that I loved his work on CNN-I, but his work on CNN was kind of shoddy. and why. The producer was pissed. The rest of the news media there listened and asked questions. Especially the young ones. A few did not even know CNN had international operations.

[Bonobo]

66. Yes, that certainly encapsulates the problem.

Americans are treated like idiots... and they become idiots as a result.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. I know

People are treated like children, and they actually are not aware of it.

[ucrdem]

76. It doesn't work that way. If he can't win the nom he won't win the GE, and if he runs 3rd party

he'll split the CDS vote with Trump and lose again.

[Snarkoleptic]

79. But, but, but she does well in the rarified air of a closed primary!

Doesn't that voting population mimic the overall electorate?

[Demsrule86]

86. A person who lost the primary

will lose the GE...if they were 'selected' like Bush. Bernie has not been vetted.