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Thu May 12, 2016, 01:25 AM

 

None of these things matter, because I'm with Hillary. I'm with her.

From Facebook:

I'm with Hillary. I'm with her.
ZACH BULLS * FRIDAY, MAY 6, 2016 * Facebook

I don't care if she voted for the War in Iraq. I don't care if she encouraged other members of Congress to vote for the war by stating it was a good business opportunity. Afterward she said it was a mistake and she's sorry for that. It doesn't matter that we spent $5.5 trillion dollars and killed hundreds of thousands of people in the process. It doesn't matter that the war did nothing to curb terrorism, but instead only created more terrorists and increased the incidence of worldwide terrorism. It doesn't matter because I'm with her.

I don't care if she accepts money from super pacs. It doesn't matter that she made exorbitant amounts of money from paid speeches to major corporations. It doesn't matter if these funds cause her to favor the welfare of corporations over people. It doesn't matter if it causes her to choose war over peaceful alternatives in order to bolster the profits of our military industrial complex. It doesn't matter if it causes her to relax regulations on big oil which further contaminates our water and our air. It doesn't matter if she compromises our commitment to renewable energy and diminishes our effort to address climate change. It doesn't matter because I'm with her.

I don't care if she advocates worldwide fracking. It doesn't matter that scientists consider this harmful to our environment and a major contributor to climate change. It doesn't matter because I'm with her.

I don't care if she allows the medical and pharmaceutical industries to overcharge for their products and services. It doesn't matter that it places a financial strain on people who suffer life-threatening ailments. It doesn't matter that it often causes their families to go bankrupt. It doesn't matter because I'm with her.

I don't care if she and her husband passed the Omnibus Bill and Three Strikes You're Out. It doesn't matter that these policies helped to privatize prisons which led to the incarceration of numerous young adults for petty crimes. It doesn't matter that these folks are charged with felonies and find it difficult to obtain good jobs after serving unwarranted prison terms. It doesn't matter that their families are made to suffer as well. It doesn't matter because I'm with her.

I don't care if she and her husband pushed for and adopted Welfare Reform that allowed states to redistribute funds that would have otherwise gone toward food stamps and low-income housing. It doesn't matter that it caused hundreds of thousands of children to go without food and proper shelter. It doesn't matter because I'm with her.

I don't care if she and her husband repealed Glass-Steagall. It doesn't matter that it caused the economic crash of 2008. It doesn't matter that the crash was caused by corrupt business practices. It doesn't matter that the executives responsible for it were not charged with crimes. It doesn't matter that the bailout cost taxpayers billions of dollars. It doesn't matter that property values plummeted and good people ended up foreclosing on their homes. It doesn't matter because I'm with her.

I don't care if Hillary and her husband promoted NAFTA, CAFTA, and TPP. It doesn't matter that these trade agreements served only to give corporations more power over common people. It doesn't matter that they have kept wages low and sent millions of jobs outside the U.S. It doesn't matter that they have caused working families to see their purchase power significantly decrease over the past 25 years. It doesn't matter that they have caused young adults to find it increasingly more difficult to purchase homes and manage their lives without extreme debt. It doesn't matter because I'm with her.

I don't care if there is a candidate out there who opposed all these things. It doesn't matter that this candidate has fought to keep money out of politics. It doesn't matter that this candidate has fought to limit the power of corporations over people. It doesn't matter that this candidate consistently stands up and fights for the oppressed. It doesn't matter that he is consistently on the right side of causes, even when those causes are unpopular. It doesn't matter. No, it doesn't matter because I'm with her.

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Arrow 185 replies Author Time Post
Reply None of these things matter, because I'm with Hillary. I'm with her. (Original post)
99th_Monkey May 2016 OP
NewImproved Deal May 2016 #1
CentralCoaster May 2016 #49
emsimon33 May 2016 #153
highprincipleswork May 2016 #2
BreakfastClub May 2016 #3
highprincipleswork May 2016 #4
bvf May 2016 #6
Bobbie Jo May 2016 #21
bvf May 2016 #22
Bobbie Jo May 2016 #25
bvf May 2016 #157
Bobbie Jo May 2016 #161
bvf May 2016 #166
Bobbie Jo May 2016 #171
sheshe2 May 2016 #173
bvf May 2016 #174
dchill May 2016 #104
bvf May 2016 #182
dchill May 2016 #183
99th_Monkey May 2016 #9
chervilant May 2016 #11
Dragonfli May 2016 #13
Chan790 May 2016 #18
pdsimdars May 2016 #40
peace13 May 2016 #52
MuseRider May 2016 #71
Kip Humphrey May 2016 #93
Dragonfli May 2016 #134
LineLineLineLineLineReply .
Kip Humphrey May 2016 #136
laundry_queen May 2016 #181
apcalc May 2016 #172
dchill May 2016 #184
JudyM May 2016 #128
passiveporcupine May 2016 #141
cui bono May 2016 #16
Chan790 May 2016 #17
pdsimdars May 2016 #39
whatchamacallit May 2016 #54
notadmblnd May 2016 #60
Akicita May 2016 #92
notadmblnd May 2016 #96
Akicita May 2016 #98
notadmblnd May 2016 #106
Akicita May 2016 #107
notadmblnd May 2016 #109
Akicita May 2016 #111
notadmblnd May 2016 #112
cloudbase May 2016 #137
Akicita May 2016 #140
bvar22 May 2016 #149
Arugula Latte May 2016 #81
dchill May 2016 #105
arcane1 May 2016 #110
jack_krass May 2016 #125
Ken Burch May 2016 #139
Rockyj May 2016 #150
apcalc May 2016 #152
emsimon33 May 2016 #154
rhett o rick May 2016 #168
Uncle Joe May 2016 #5
99th_Monkey May 2016 #7
haikugal May 2016 #27
senz May 2016 #122
99th_Monkey May 2016 #126
BootinUp May 2016 #8
Dragonfli May 2016 #14
Chan790 May 2016 #19
Art_from_Ark May 2016 #24
Xyzse May 2016 #50
Dragonfli May 2016 #143
GoldenThunder May 2016 #20
bvf May 2016 #23
vintx May 2016 #61
deathrind May 2016 #69
Kittycat May 2016 #77
uponit7771 May 2016 #78
JonLeibowitz May 2016 #130
uponit7771 May 2016 #135
artislife May 2016 #94
KoKo May 2016 #138
TCJ70 May 2016 #41
pdsimdars May 2016 #43
99th_Monkey May 2016 #118
pdsimdars May 2016 #129
99th_Monkey May 2016 #133
farleftlib May 2016 #88
passiveporcupine May 2016 #147
BootinUp May 2016 #148
passiveporcupine May 2016 #156
BootinUp May 2016 #158
passiveporcupine May 2016 #162
BootinUp May 2016 #165
passiveporcupine May 2016 #167
BootinUp May 2016 #170
AzDar May 2016 #10
Bonobo May 2016 #12
Art_from_Ark May 2016 #26
Bobbie Jo May 2016 #28
Bonobo May 2016 #31
ibegurpard May 2016 #53
CoffeeCat May 2016 #56
renate May 2016 #95
Bobbie Jo May 2016 #100
Laughing Mirror May 2016 #32
Locrian May 2016 #33
Laughing Mirror May 2016 #36
peace13 May 2016 #62
JTFrog May 2016 #74
Dragonfli May 2016 #15
druidity33 May 2016 #29
JackInGreen May 2016 #30
B Calm May 2016 #34
VulgarPoet May 2016 #35
madokie May 2016 #37
peace13 May 2016 #57
pdsimdars May 2016 #38
TCJ70 May 2016 #42
peace13 May 2016 #59
EndElectoral May 2016 #44
Enthusiast May 2016 #45
MisterP May 2016 #46
Octafish May 2016 #47
libtodeath May 2016 #48
MisterP May 2016 #117
onecaliberal May 2016 #51
Waiting For Everyman May 2016 #55
deathrind May 2016 #58
vintx May 2016 #63
Arugula Latte May 2016 #86
mooseprime May 2016 #64
lumberjack_jeff May 2016 #65
cyberpj May 2016 #79
lumberjack_jeff May 2016 #115
Sparkly May 2016 #66
peace13 May 2016 #68
Sparkly May 2016 #75
peace13 May 2016 #76
Sparkly May 2016 #90
jack_krass May 2016 #146
ForgoTheConsequence May 2016 #155
uponit7771 May 2016 #80
JoePhilly May 2016 #97
sadoldgirl May 2016 #67
notadmblnd May 2016 #70
Faux pas May 2016 #72
radical noodle May 2016 #73
xocet May 2016 #82
radical noodle May 2016 #120
xocet May 2016 #142
Herman4747 May 2016 #164
radical noodle May 2016 #175
Herman4747 May 2016 #178
Ed Suspicious May 2016 #87
radical noodle May 2016 #119
CoffeeCat May 2016 #83
SheilaT May 2016 #84
BillZBubb May 2016 #131
timmymoff May 2016 #85
farleftlib May 2016 #89
davidlynch May 2016 #91
basselope May 2016 #99
bkkyosemite May 2016 #101
Orsino May 2016 #102
Ino May 2016 #103
JEB May 2016 #108
azurnoir May 2016 #113
polly7 May 2016 #114
Ferd Berfel May 2016 #116
senz May 2016 #121
Yurovsky May 2016 #124
pdsimdars May 2016 #123
Buzz Clik May 2016 #127
BootinUp May 2016 #144
Buzz Clik May 2016 #145
passiveporcupine May 2016 #132
guillaumeb May 2016 #151
berni_mccoy May 2016 #159
Nightjock May 2016 #160
ozone_man May 2016 #179
Vote2016 May 2016 #163
ucrdem May 2016 #169
99th_Monkey May 2016 #176
Progressive dog May 2016 #177
TwilightZone May 2016 #180
autorank May 2016 #185

Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:31 AM

1. Drink up...

 



[link:|

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Response to NewImproved Deal (Reply #1)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:30 AM

49. Her campaign deserves a lifetime achievement award from the ADDY folks.

 



Effective advertising, no substance.

It's magical.

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Response to CentralCoaster (Reply #49)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:07 PM

153. Effective for those with a more conservative brain.

Not computing with the liberals.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:33 AM

2. I get it. You just don't care.

 

Well, at least that's true of anyone who really feels this way.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:34 AM

3. I feel sorry for you because you are so misinformed about

Hillary Clinton and apparently have no clue what is going on and what she has done for the country and the world. It's really sad that you let yourself get so brainwashed.

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:36 AM

4. Back at ya!

 

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:48 AM

6. Here's a nice picture for you to look at

 

while you prepare your refutation of the points in the OP.



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Response to bvf (Reply #6)

Thu May 12, 2016, 03:58 AM

21. Did you have a point with that?

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #21)

Thu May 12, 2016, 04:04 AM

22. With what?

 

I assume you're following the thread, correct?

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Response to bvf (Reply #22)

Thu May 12, 2016, 04:31 AM

25. With what?

With that post, of course.

Are you following the thread?

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #25)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:26 PM

157. Yes. Are you?

 

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Response to bvf (Reply #157)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:53 PM

161. Did you have a point with that post?

Simple question.

Blink once for yes, twice for no.

If yes, what was it??

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #161)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:04 PM

166. You're repeating yourself.

 

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Response to bvf (Reply #166)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:19 PM

171. And apparently you're having some difficultly

with the question.

Do you frequently post things that you can't explain?

You also seem to be having some difficulty being direct. If you can't explain your point, just say so.

I let this go hours ago. Since you picked it back up you must have something else to add here beyond this nonsense.

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #171)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:28 PM

173. ;)

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #171)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:37 PM

174. What?

 

Last edited Thu May 12, 2016, 09:11 PM - Edit history (1)

You seem to feel entitled to an explanation more comprehensible to you.

Well, guess what?



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Response to bvf (Reply #6)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:36 AM

104. Jesus! What could she be thinking right then?

Enquiring minds want to know...

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Response to dchill (Reply #104)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:56 PM

182. I don't know,

 

but that expression doesn't exactly say, "President," does it?

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Response to bvf (Reply #182)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:01 PM

183. Maybe President of Soylent Green.

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:03 AM

9. I notice you forgot to point out exactly what/where these alleged "inaccuracies" are.

 

You are only confirming and illustrating what the article is talking about.

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:07 AM

11. "...have no clue what is going on..."

Yeah, well, welcome to my IL.

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:28 AM

13. Your are the one misinformed, but I don't hate you for it. If such is true, you are the victim

of Brockaganda.

However.

If you really do know what she has done TO this country, then I still do not hate you, but you are no victim but rather a collaborator.

I believe that the neoliberal and neocon philosophies you find wonderful if you are not being truthful about your belief in such a false reality, as the objective reality is those evil philosophies are destroying the way of life and livelihoods of several millions of people in this country, and have and will continue to take the lives of millions more in others.

Psychopaths, do not care about others and calculate everything from false smiles and friendships to entire agendas of countries given the power to do so and without the slightest regard towards those they harm. Both Neoliberals and Neocons are much the same and are ill, I have no place for hate regarding even the mentally ill that harm others for their own gain, but I do feel they are the architects of misery and death and should be stopped from harming others.

Not surprisingly, most that suffer from mental illness are harmless and live unfortunate sad lives, the largest percentage of mentally ill fall into such a category, they are in need of care, care they seldom receive in this country.

The subset that are truly dangerous are a small percentage yet have managed to destroy so many lives, they are a seperate category and deserve to be locked away forever for the safety of others.

I have not yet decided if you are a true neocon or neoliberal believer, and hold out the hope that you are merely the victim of being led falsely by those that are.

Hillary Clinton has shown both signs of NPD and psychopathology and has no business being given power to destroy so very many lives.

I would like nothing better than a team of certified professionals to diagnose her and make those health record known, but psychopaths are master manipulators and would never allow such an investigation into their mental health.

What a pity so many had to die as a result of her tenure as SoS. It could have been avoided had she been evaluated properly, but the dead remain dead, and the children killed by the cluster bombs she favors (possibly because they are known to kill children disproportionately) will never breath again, or if their lives were not lost, they shall live forever with the loss of limbs that are a direct result of Senator Clinton's refusal to sign a law banning them. and also as a result of her selling of such munitions to the "Altruistic" royalty of Saudi Arabia, as a result of what appears to be, but is as yet unproven, act of enriching her fortunes by demanding payment to her "foundation" before pushing through such sales to such bloodthirsty kindred.

For whichever reason you posted what you did, you are most incorrect in your proclamation.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #13)

Thu May 12, 2016, 03:42 AM

18. +1! n/t

 

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #13)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:02 AM

40. I'm flying with you dragonfli . . . preach it!

 

I don't hate them but am really pissed at them. They should know better. Obstinate is the word that comes to mind.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #13)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:40 AM

52. Well put!

 

Thank you for putting words to this. War and more war. Death to innocents. I have had my fill.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #13)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:19 AM

71. Damn you are good!

100% agree.

We all need a little psychiatric care from time to time, so few get it and the people that need it the most could get it but won't so we all suffer for it.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #13)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:17 AM

93. dragonfli, I will tell you of an experience I had with 6 psychologists during the 1996 campaign...

My father-in-law, now deceased, was a mentor and long time friend to 5 colleagues, all psychologists. Each month, they would get together for a poker game. It happened that my father-in-law invited me to attend these games, an invitation I could not decline! During one of these games the topic of the Clintons came up. Keep in mind this was in Maryland and all present were Democrats. As the discussion evolved, they began to talk about Hillary. The discussion quickly turned to Hillary's personality profile. Interestingly, the 6 psychologists were unanimous in their diagnosis: Hillary Clinton suffers from NPD (as you surmise) and psychopathology centered on borderline personality disorder. They went further into the causes, suggesting an overbearing father's early childhood rejection of Hillary because she was not male coupled with a verbally abused and submissive mother as probable root causes of Hillary's psychopathy.

I thought you might find my experience interesting. (for clarity, I am not a psychologist; I just played poker with 6 of them)

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Response to Kip Humphrey (Reply #93)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:30 PM

134. I am not a psychologist ether, but have learned from layman's articles written by Pros describing

traits, and the way such illnesses present (toned down a bit intellectually for our non-colleague minds of course, they were after all meant for laymen consumption). The entire reason I guessed as I did was based on such superficial knowledge and reading such articles written for public consumption by actual experts in those fields.

The reason I want professionals like those you played poker with, to do a proper, educated exam (by board certified specialists) is precisely because that would be the only way to prove it and perhaps stop a bit of death and mayhem due to medical disqualification.

I am not surprised by your account (the signs we are told in such articles to look for are all there), but I certainly feel vindicated in my harsh evaluation by your recollections of the discussion.

Thank you for relaying it to me!

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #134)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:33 PM

136. .

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #134)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:39 PM

181. NPD is one of those things

that if you read up on it a bit more than the average layperson, you can see how those who are affected might as well have a flashing NPD sign on their forehead. It's pretty obvious. It's hard NOT to see it.

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Response to Kip Humphrey (Reply #93)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:26 PM

172. Lemme guess...these colleagues

All men, right? Psychoanalyzing the ambitious woman...l

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Response to Kip Humphrey (Reply #93)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:12 PM

184. Thank you. While not an actual clinical analysis...

The fact that 6 of them, Democrats all, concurred, lending serious weight to the opinion.

In my admittedly amateur opinion, the "subject" is an inveterate narcissist. I've known a few, and the "subject" really runs rings around them all. Say what you will, she's an overachiever.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #13)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:07 PM

128. A very generous and thoughtful refutation!

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #13)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:49 PM

141. This right here is, unfortunately, the truth

If you really do know what she has done TO this country, then I still do not hate you, but you are no victim but rather a collaborator.


Too many of the long-term DU Hillary supporters are neo-cons. In other words they really aren't liberal, except on a few social issues. They actually do agree with many of Hillary's old positions and actions and know that she will swing right once declared the nominee, and know that is who she really is, and they support her because that is who they really are too.

The truth keeps leaching out of the shadows here, a little glimpse at a time. And it scares me every time I see it, because they are the establishment and have most of the power today.

And this is why they won't discuss issues with us here. They don't want to admit to us that they don't feel the same way we do about so many important issues.

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 03:17 AM

16. If that is true then you shouldn't have any trouble coming up with a rebuttal

rather than dishing out a snarky post meant to insult.

.

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 03:41 AM

17. Uh...same to you.

 

Because everything in the OP is true. But...it doesn't matter, because you're with her and that makes you immune to any criticism of her or proof that she's an amoral sociopath who holds RW values and is totally bought-and-paid-for by Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein.

Because, you don't care that she's the worst enemy to your values in the entire Democratic party...because you're with her.

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:57 AM

39. She did, after all, tell the bankers to "cut it out". Didn't actually DO anything about it, but did

 

scold them while lobbying for all those wars that killed all those civilians, women and children. But what are all those thousands of lives when you are the person who scolded the banksters?

It 's a matter of VALUES and PERSPECTIVE. Bernie has been right on every major issue. Hillary ALWAYS gets it wrong, but when caught on the wrong side, apologizes. Yea, that's the JUDGEMENT I want to lead the country. . . NEVER!

I think this campaign season has given smart people enough hints that she is a weak candidate. If you refuse to pay attention, blame no one but yourself.

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:41 AM

54. "You are misinformed (even if you're not) because I'm with her"



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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:52 AM

60. Please, explain it to us

Outside of what was listed in the OP, just what has she contributed to the country and the world? Oh and could you use little words that we can all understand?

Thanks in advance for your detailed response.

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Response to notadmblnd (Reply #60)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:15 AM

92. The answers you usually get to that question are she has said this or she has said that, she has

fought for this or fought for that, or she improved our image overseas. Very few concrete accomplishments that can be pointed to. I guess there is always the reset button.

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Response to Akicita (Reply #92)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:23 AM

96. Crickets more than likely- but I knew that when I asked the question.

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Response to notadmblnd (Reply #60)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:27 AM

98. Clinton sponsored three bills that became law: S.3145, S.3613, and S.1241. The first of these

renamed a highway in New York state, the second renamed a post office in New York City, and the third established the Kate Mullany National Historic Site in Troy, New York and authorized funding to set the site up.

Concrete accomplishments.

So there Ms. Smartypants.

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Response to Akicita (Reply #98)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:42 AM

106. Wow, must have been real tough to get a post office named

I'll bet she had to do some real arm twisting of other pols to get that bill passed. She and her followers must be so proud. Oh and an Historic site named and a highway too! She must have pulled out the big guns for that. Impressive fer sure.

I sure do hope her enemies list didn't grow too long over those fights as I imagine that it is terribly exhausting exacting revenge on those who go against her.

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Response to notadmblnd (Reply #106)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:46 AM

107. Yes, and she did it all for every day Americans.

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Response to Akicita (Reply #107)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:51 AM

109. I can personally vouch for the huge improvement it has made in my life

Yep. The more choices I have when it comes to purchasing the occasional stamp, the better off my quality of life is.

One just never knows when one will be traversing New York State and find themselves in need of a stamp.

Why just the way that woman has put her life o the line for the US Postal Service, just brings brings tears to my eyes. She's suffered so.

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Response to notadmblnd (Reply #109)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:54 AM

111. I am so touched by these accomplishments that I am going right now to join the MOANERS FOR HILLARY

superpac that Andrea Mitchell is setting up.

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Response to Akicita (Reply #111)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:56 AM

112. When you do- please give me the link

I'll send a peanut or two also.

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Response to Akicita (Reply #107)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:36 PM

137. Fighting for us! n/t

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Response to cloudbase (Reply #137)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:40 PM

140. What happened to fighting for every day Americans? She changed it.

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Response to Akicita (Reply #98)

Thu May 12, 2016, 04:09 PM

149. Now, now....Lets be fair.

AS the Senator from New York, Hillary wad leading the fight to protect us from the evil flag burners, and sponsored a bill to make it a Federal Crime with a $100K fine and a year in Federal Prison.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_Protection_Act_of_2005

She also heroically led the fight against cartoon violence in animated video games.
Ironically, at the same time, she was helping to murder and maim hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi Men, Women, and Children IN REAL LIFE in ways much more horrible that what is depicted in the cartoon violence of video games.

She deserves to be acknowledged for these accomplishments!

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:01 AM

81. What, exactly, is "misinformed" about this post?

 

Are you saying Hillary DIDN'T do any of these things or support Bill in the awful things he did?

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:39 AM

105. Let me guess: you're "with her!"

It's really sad that you let yourself get so brainwashed.

I know, plagiarism, right?

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:51 AM

110. Welcome back! Feel free to "Correct the Record" of this allegedly misinformed post.

 

We'll be waiting

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:00 PM

125. Tool

 

I think they're a great band, don't you?

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:38 PM

139. Every word of that OP was the truth.

 

There is no "nuance" that makes any of that defensible.

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 05:41 PM

150. You are the one that's brainwashed...

And its sad to see so many misinformed dems.

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:04 PM

152. I agree

She has been fighting for us for years. And to think she is labeled as ' establishment' when, as a woman candidate, the establishment deck has been so stacked against her from the beginning. To minimize how hard she has worked, and the struggles she has faced just to get where she is is pathetic and misinformed.

Those who have been discriminated against understand... People of color, women, latinos , muslims, LGBT, some men...

Plus...imo , without question she is the most ready and able of anyone in this country , certainly of the candidates running, to be president.

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:08 PM

154. Hmmmm...are you looking in the mirror while writing this?

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Response to BreakfastClub (Reply #3)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:11 PM

168. But, but she did vote for the Iraq War and she did push the lies about WMD, and she

 

actually did support tough drug laws and strong sentencing and did support cutting welfare, and did support fracking and the job killer free trade deals, and .........

How is stating those facts indicating being brainwashed? I think the shoe is on the other foot. As the OP says, ignoring those terrible positions she has and is taking reveals the brainwashing.

She supports cluster bombs. That's a fact. She does support not allowing the use of medical marijuana for those in pain. A fact.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:41 AM

5. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, 99th_Monkey.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #5)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:53 AM

7. You're very welcome Uncle Joe

 

It is fascinating how some of these responses reflect the very thing being
pointed out in the Facebook post.

I'll probably vote for her if it comes down to that, but damn, it's a YUUGE stretch.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #7)

Thu May 12, 2016, 04:56 AM

27. Wonderful OP, thank you! I can't understand how you could write it then say you'll vote for her

if she's the candidate. I don't get that.

Here is a documentary that I think speaks to our current situation in this country. It may seem unrelated but if you watch it all the way through I think you'll recognize Bernie's and our movement and why it's so important that we vote with a moral compass.



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Response to haikugal (Reply #27)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:54 PM

122. Agreed, haikugal.

 

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Response to haikugal (Reply #27)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:02 PM

126. I make a huge distinction between "vote for" and "support"

 

the former often requires a clothespin, and the latter includes financial support and volunteer time
& energy.

That said, it will indeed be a stretch for me to keep that clothespin on my nose long enough to
cast a ballot.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:56 AM

8. Ironic

Yes, its ironic that the OP attempts to paint with a broad brush Hillary's supporters as feckless and uncaring about issues, when the OP doesn't care to present anything close to a real picture of Hillary's record.

1) Hillary was not President and does not own everything Bill Clinton did as President

2) In order to understand any vote or position, one needs to actually understand the history of the issue, the politics around it. There is no doubt that Bill Clinton did compromise on issues with the Republican Congress. That meant that he was able to move issues that were important to the Democratic Party. Of course we are talking about 20 years ago now. There is a reason he is still a very popular Democrat. Its because most Democrats that were paying attention at the time approved of his performance.

3) The Iraq War. Both Bernie Sanders and even Trump have said in interviews that they do not hold her accountable for the war. She never advocated for Bush to invade. It was a vote to force UN inspections. Don't swallow the distortions without reading about her vote on your own. It was a time when Democrats were being lied to by the Bush Administration.

4) Hillary Clinton HAS a positive record fighting for us. Check it out for yourself instead of swallowing the anti-Hillary spin.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #8)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:48 AM

14. She hasn't had much of a "record of her positive fight for us, but I know much about someone who has

Sanders who has always caucused with the Democrats, he is more a Democrat than most in the party re issues he has a much longer, much stronger record of fighting for us positively

An independent in name only in many ways

He caucused with the Democrats for, 16 years in the United States House of Representatives, 10 years in the United States Senate;

where he served on many committees Representing the Democratic party such as the:

Committee on the Budget (Ranking Member)
Committee on Environment and Public Works
Subcommittee on Clean Air and Nuclear Safety
Subcommittee on Green Jobs and the New Economy
Subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Subcommittee on Energy
Subcommittee on National Parks
Subcommittee on Water and Power
Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
Subcommittee on Children and Families
Subcommittee on Primary Health and Aging (Ranking Member)
Committee on Veterans' Affairs (chairman)

He has every right to expect respect from those he served with such loyalty and in so many capacities.
The Democratic party must consider him a true blue ally to have given him seats on so many committees.

He was also a co-founder of the Democratic Progressive caucus.

It appears to me the only one's that are offended by his former Independent status are all the Moderate Republicans that are far less honest and register as "Democrats" while voting for Republican policy, those "Democrats" are most often both conservative and liars

He has done a great many good things for the Democratic party that they could not take credit for without him!

The following is a list of every substantive bill and amendment Sanders sponsored from the floor of Congress that became law (substantive meaning legislation renaming post offices is not included). Many of the roll-call amendments he passed with majority approval — like limiting the federal government’s ability to spy on people’s library records — were removed from bills when the House and Senate negotiated over the final legislative text and did not become law.

Because the list is derived from Congress’ official database of floor actions, it does not include achievements like his insertion of funding for veterans health care into an Iraq war spending bill because that occurred off of the House floor while the bill was in conference. Nor does the list include what is perhaps his most significant achievement — providing health care to an additional 10 million mostly low-income Americans by getting Senate majority leader Harry Reid to add $11 billion in funding for community health centers that provide care regardless of a person’s ability to pay to the 2010 Affordable Care Act in exchange for Sanders rallying liberal Democrats who were considering voting against the bill once conservative Democrats removed the public option.

Those who mistakenly believe that a President Sanders would be powerless in the face of a hostile Republican Congress should bear in mind that he managed to pass these bills and amendments in spite of Republican control of both the House (1995-2006) and the presidency (2001-2008). Furthermore, it was Republicans in the House and Senate who compromised with him (not the other way around) on major veterans legislation in 2014. His original bill expanding services for veterans and fixing the scandal-ridden Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) cost $17.3 billion. The price tag of the final compromise bill? $16.3 billion.

H.R.4206 (Cancer Registries Amendment Act) enacted as S. 3312 (Cancer Registries Amendment Act).

H.Amdt. 98 to H.R. 665 (Victims of Justice Act of 1995)

H.Amdt. 210 to H.R. 830 (Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995)

H.Amdt. 1203 to H.R. 3666 Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act, 1997

H.J.Res.129 enacted as S.J.Res.38 (A joint resolution granting the consent of Congress to the Vermont-New Hampshire Interstate Public Water Supply Compact)

H.Amdt.174 to H.R.1757 (Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998)

H.Amdt.267 to H.R.2160 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1998)

H.Amdt.289 to H.R.2266 (Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 1998) -- National Guard Starbase program

H.Amdt.368 to H.R.2378 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 1998) -- Prohibit funds for the U.S. Customs Office from being used to allow the importation into the U.S. any material mined, produced, or manufactured by forced or indentured child labor.

H.Amdt.388 to H.R.2267 (Departments of Commerce, Justice, and State, the Judiciary, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1998)

H.Amdt.569 to H.R.6 (Higher Education Amendments of 1998)

H.Amdt.614 to H.R.3694 (Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1999) -- Reduce the intelligence budget for fiscal year 1999 by 5% with an exemption for the CIA Retirement and Disability Fund.

H.Amdt.626 to H.R.10 (Financial Services Act of 1998) -- Require the Comptroller General to report to Congress regarding the efficacy and benefits of uniformly limiting any commissions, fees, markups, or other costs incurred by customers in the acquisition of financial products.

H.Amdt.706 to H.R.4101 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1999) -- Increase funding for nutrition programs for senior citizens by $10 million

H.Amdt.708 to H.R.4103 (Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 1999) -- Prohibit funding to be used to enter into or renew a contract with any company owned, or partially owned, by the People’s Republic of China or the People’s Liberation Army of the People’s Republic of China.

H.Amdt.724 to H.R.4104 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 1999) enacted as H.R. 2490 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2000) -- National Archives and Records Administration improvements

H.Amdt.127 to H.R.1906 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000)

H.Amdt.136 to H.R.1906 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000) -- national pilot program to promote agritourism

H.Amdt.258 to H.R.2466 (Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000) enacted as H.R.3194 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2000) -- deficit reduction; and reduces fossil energy research and development funding

H.Amdt.442 to H.R.2684 (Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000) -- health care services for veterans in rural areas

H.Amdt.791 to H.R.4577 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2001) -- (relating to the availability to the public of an invention and its benefits on reasonable terms)

H.Amdt.818 to H.R.4578 (Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2001) -- weatherization assistance and energy conservation programs and reduce fossil fuel energy research and development programs

H.Amdt.238 to H.R.2590 (Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2002) -- Prohibit the importation of goods made by forced or indentured child labor.

H.Amdt.376 to H.R.3061 (Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2002) -- relating to the availability to the public of an invention and its benefits on reasonable terms

H.Amdt.404 to H.R.3338 (Department of Defense and Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for Recovery from and Response to Terrorist Attacks on the United States Act, 2002) -- Provide $100 million for federally qualified community health centers.

H.Amdt.255 to H.R.2691 (Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2004) -- Increase funding for weatherization assistance grants

H.Amdt.336 to H.R.2861 (Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act, 2004) enacted as H.R.2673 (Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2004) -- Prohibit the use of funds in the bill to implement any policy prohibiting the Directors of the Veterans Integrated Service Networks from conducting outreach or marketing to enroll new veterans within their respective networks.

S.Amdt.737 to H.R.1591 (U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans’ Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007) -- fund weatherization assistance program

S.Amdt.1515 to H.R.6 (Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007) -- Establish an energy efficiency and renewable energy worker training program

S.Amdt.1525 to H.R.6 (Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007) -- use of solar hot water heaters in certain Federal buildings

S.Amdt.4384 to H.R.3221 (Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008) -- Increase specially adapted housing benefits for disabled veterans.

S.Amdt.1658 to S.1390 (National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010) -- re child care available to deployed members of the reserve components of the Armed Forces

S.Amdt.2271 to H.R.2997 (Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2010) -- funds for the school community garden pilot program

S.Amdt.2601 to H.R.3326 (Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2010) -- veteran outreach and reintegration services

S.Amdt.3738 to S.3217 (Restoring American Financial Stability Act of 2010) -- let the American people know the names of the recipients of over $2 trillion in taxpayer assistance from the Federal Reserve System

S.Amdt.306 to H.R.1 (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009) -- Require recipients of TARP funding to meet strict H-1B worker hiring standard to ensure non-displacement of U.S. workers

S.Amdt.1658 to S.1390 (National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010) -- report to Congress on financial assistance for child care available to deployed members of the reserve components of the Armed Forces.

S.Amdt.4280 to H.R.4899 (Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2010) -- make publicly available the contractor integrity performance database established under the Clean Contracting Act of 2008

S.2450 (Veterans’ Access to Care through Choice, Accountability, and Transparency Act of 2014) enacted as H.R.3230 (Veterans Access, Choice, and Accountability Act of 2014) -- VA reform bill

S.893 (Veterans’ Compensation Cost-of-Living Adjustment Act of 2013) -- increase rates of veterans’ disability compensation, additional compensation for dependents, etc.

S.Amdt.2146 to S.1471 (Alicia Dawn Koehl Respect for National Cemeteries Act) – re interring the remains and honoring the memory of a person in a national cemetery

[font size="3" ; color="8B0000"]Also, compare her record to his perhaps you will gain an understanding of her right wing infiltration into the party[/font]

Your Right Wing meme appears to be that even with all his years of public service, a progressive like Bernie Sanders was too far to the left to accomplish anything, being a former Independent and all.

That one has to be able to find the buypartisan way, in other words, adopt the least offensive GOP legislation as your own if you wish to accomplish anything, if one is not a member of the Republican party itself.

The problem with this bullshit GOP meme is that it is completely false, he's actually one of the most effective members of Congress, passing bills, of all sizes and shapes, that have reshaped American policy on key issues like poverty, the environment and health care.

[center][font size=3"]The Amendment King[/font][/center]

....Congress is not known to be a progressive institution lately, to say the least. Over the past few decades, the House of Representatives was only controlled by the Democrats from 2007 to 2010, and a flood of corporate money has quieted the once-powerful progressive movement that passed legislation moving the country forward between the New Deal era and the Great Society. Yet, as difficult as it may be to believe, a socialist from Vermont is one of its most accomplished members. ....

snip

....Sanders did something particularly original, which was that he passed amendments that were exclusively progressive, advancing goals such as reducing poverty and helping the environment, and he was able to get bipartisan coalitions of Republicans who wanted to shrink government or hold it accountable and progressives who wanted to use it to empower Americans.

Here are a few examples of the amendments Sanders passed by building unusual but effective coalitions:....


[font color="red"]Much more, but due to the three paragraph rule you will have to follow this link[/font]
I dare those that pretend the GOP meme is true and are spreading it for them, to read the article!

There are so many examples in fact that you really need to read the entire article as it completely dispels this current Right Wing myth that Bernie Sanders after all his time in Congress achieved almost nothing, when in fact he was literally one of the most effective members of Congress! Read the facts in the article itself, clearly the GOP is spreading lies about him, after all, who besides Rove and the GOP would use such lying sleazy bullshit tactics against someone that helped Democrats get as much progressive policy put into effect during his tenure?...


[font size="3"][center]Robert Reich, Clinton Secretary of Labor, on Bernie's effectiveness in Congress[/font][/center]



Lets Compare Hillary Clinton's commitment and "Democratic" values accomplished by way of comparison.

Not to say Hillary Clinton did not achieve some things during her six year hobby involved in legislating (the last two were spent campaigning and fundraising)

She managed to vote for the Patriot Act, for an illegal war, and even whip some votes with her passionate selling of the Bush/Cheney lies. (she deserves some credit for that,) and those of you that enjoy war should be and are rightfully quite proud of that.

As a Senator Clinton did get some things accomplished, Clinton sponsored three bills that became law: S.3145, S.3613, and S.1241. The first of these renamed a highway in New York state, the second renamed a post office in New York City, and the third established the Kate Mullany National Historic Site in Troy, New York and authorized funding to set the site up.

To be truly fair, she also tried to put an end to the epidemic of flag burning and ban some media, but these, her most favorite things were too hard for her to get done, she just couldn't get them passed, she may have lacked the chops to do it, but BUT SHE TRIED REAL HARD!

The United States Family Entertainment Protection Act (FEPA) was a bill introduced by Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY), and co-sponsored by Senators Joe Lieberman (D-CT), Tim Johnson (D-SD) and Evan Bayh (D-IN) on November 29, 2005. The bill called for a federal mandate enforcement of the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) ratings.

Unsuccessfully unfortunately for the more puritan among us, sigh, if only she were more effective at passing such laws, we would finally be safe from cluster bombs, eerr.. I mean f-bombs (she voted against ending the use of child killing cluster bombs, my "misspeak" or my bad, if you prefer) she likes cluster bombs, so much so that after some donations to very, very, special charity, she made sure as SoS to sell cluster bombs to those altruistic rulers of Saudi Arabia! She deserves credit for that!

The kids just love playing with those rather than video games.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2008/03/13/cluster-bombs-are-not-good-children-hillary

She is basically a moderate Republican that Registered as a Democrat
He was Basically an FDR Democrat that Registered as an Independent (likely because he did not want to be identified with the ever increasing Right Wing infiltration and taint of such an anti worker "modern" party).

Yet he still voted and enacted more Democratic amendments and laws than most DLC Democrats would even dream of or even want to (their priority instead since the early nineties being largely deregulation of banks, corporations and everything else under the sun, privatization of as much of the commons as possible, media consolidation and Corporatization, safety net shredding welfare destruction, and tough on mostly minority crimes involving possession of weed and other substances to grow the prison industrial complex beyond anything seen in even China or North Korea.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #14)

Thu May 12, 2016, 03:46 AM

19. Hot Damn! Dragonfli, you're just owning in this thread!

 



You would have made one hell of a parliamentary debater. I'd know, I was on a national champion team in college.

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Response to Chan790 (Reply #19)

Thu May 12, 2016, 04:30 AM

24. Damn right he is!

Go Dragonfli!

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Response to Chan790 (Reply #19)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:30 AM

50. Can only echo this applause.

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Response to Chan790 (Reply #19)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:52 PM

143. If only you knew how little formal education I received you would chuckle (I am self-educated)

I never finished 10th grade as I needed to go to work to earn a living a bit younger than is usual (long story not relevant).
I did attend a couple excellent schools, both hard to get into previous to that and maintained a high honor roll status, but after about 3/4s of tenth grade was finished, I stopped going to school and started working. I took the GED of course (an extremely easy test at the time, do not now about it's modern equivalent).

Other than that I spent only one semester in Community College before needing to go back to work again for money, but I will say that the 4.0 I received during that semester gave me the confidence to attempt the near Quixotic task of self education, I have spent the rest of my life studying various topics (not full time but as consistently as time has allowed), yet have no papers or degrees to show for it, but I do feel very happy when I get feedback such as yours.

It makes me feel as if my self education bore some fruit, so thank you very sincerely for saying what you did!

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #14)

Thu May 12, 2016, 03:49 AM

20. I'll try my best to shorten your post down to six words.

DREAM BIG, DREAM AMERICAN, VOTE BERNIE.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #14)

Thu May 12, 2016, 04:11 AM

23. Required reading, every word.

 



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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #14)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:53 AM

61. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

 

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #14)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:15 AM

69. Your posts are.

Excellent.

Thank you Dragonfli!

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #14)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:56 AM

77. I wish you could bookmark & like post.

This will have to do.

:

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #14)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:59 AM

78. Sigh... So after 2 lifetimes in congress that's all he has done? You guys afirm the reasons why...

... People who understand progressive politics don't want to vote for Sanders

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #78)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:26 PM

130. 2 lifetimes? Try 25 years.

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #130)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:31 PM

135. Yeah, you're right... nearly 3 lifetimes

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #14)


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #14)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:38 PM

138. ...!

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #8)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:03 AM

41. Anything she advocated for publicly...

...she owns a part of. That's why her advocacy for the crime bill, NAFTA, etc matter.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #8)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:19 AM

43. Just like the OP said, blind to everything.

 

Last edited Thu May 12, 2016, 02:10 PM - Edit history (1)

All those people were protesting her in California, because of what she did in Honduras. Then there's Libya. All those lives. All those thousands of innocent people. All those wars she backed. And you people don't seem to care. "Well, she did say it was a mistake." Tell it to all the people who are dead and to their families.

Murdered women and children are not "ironic". It takes one huge heaping dose of condescension to call it "ironic".

This thread wasn't written by either Bernie or Donald. The OP never mentioned them or what they thought. It expresses the author's opinions. I didn't see anyone even ask what Bernie or Donald thought about it. So why are you bringing it up? How is it relevant? Or do you have to hear what the man in charge thinks before you know what you are supposed to think?

She has no positive record. She always makes the wrong choice, the wrong decision and then has to apologize for getting it wrong. She has exhibited horrible JUDGEMENT throughout her long, blood stained career. I am sick of people making excuses for WAR MONGERS.

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Response to pdsimdars (Reply #43)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:21 PM

118. Just to be clear

 

i didn't author the OP, I only posted it, cut & pasted it from a FB post by some guy
named Zach Bulls. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #118)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:09 PM

129. I missed that, but thanks for posting it. I should have said "the author" instead of putting your

 

name. Hey, I could go edit it.

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Response to pdsimdars (Reply #129)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:28 PM

133. No problemo. nt

 

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #8)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:10 AM

88. Wrong, she voted to give Bush a blank check. She knew that meant a lot more than inspections.

 

And if Trump and Sanders do not hold her accountable for giving that blank check then that's
on them. I do not give her a pass. Not now, not ever. In Iraq it's 9/11 every day and has been
for 13 years and will be for years and years to come.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #8)

Thu May 12, 2016, 03:09 PM

147. "There is a reason he is still a very popular Democrat."

There is a reason Reagan is still a very popular president.

Being popular (gift of gab) does not mean you were a good president. Bill did a lot of things wrong that hurt this country, blacks, and our middle class and poor, although that wasn't as apparent until after his reign was over. He is not the great President so many of you think he was.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #147)

Thu May 12, 2016, 03:17 PM

148. I like the way Hillary put it recently

paraphrased: Its easy for politicians, who never had the authority and responsibility to make important decisions, to criticize those that did have that authority and responsibility.

In other words, Before you judge me. walk a mile in my shoes.

Democrats who participated in politics through those years by a large majority are grateful for his service to the country and his popularity is one measure of that, not a measure of the gift of gab.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #148)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:23 PM

156. Most of the dems who still like Clinton

are establishment and they are happy with the results of the establishment. He brought he country more toward the right (a deliberate and planned effort that he participated in...did not necessarily inspire it)...and those dems who are with him now are all part of the new democrats. The DLC, the third way.

Just because other third say politicians like him, doesn't mean what he and they did was good for the country.

He reduced our debt...that is about the only thing I can see he did that was worthwhile, but he went around it the wrong way and now we are paying for it.

Sorry, but sometimes the blind refuse to see...they aren't born that way.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #156)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:33 PM

158. Most of the Dems are most of the Dems

I don't know how else to put it, except that your view is in the minority and I would suggest it is made up of a lot of young people that don't have too many political scars.

In 1992 the Dem party was reeling after having lost 5 of 6 Presidential elections. People were already suffering from what happened before. You gotta get in the fight. Thats what the party did.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #158)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:57 PM

162. It would have been cool if they'd gotten in the fight

Instead they gave in and moved to the right. They weren't putting the right message out to stir dems...so instead they became republicans.

they did not stop the problem of wealth and income inequality, and that is what is killing this country, along with offshoring jobs and trade treaties that prevented us from even changing our own health care system (and other things).

Clinton's time in office temporarily slowed down some of the the losses, but then helped to trigger the recession, so I don't see how you can look back and say that was the right thing to do.

Sorry, you may be in the majority of adults (not really too sure about) but that does not make anything right. The majority can and did screw up.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #162)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:02 PM

165. Thats the same narrative I have seen since I got online here in 2003

It ignores the fact the country left the party in the 70's and 80's. It ignores the fact that you can't be in the fight if you lose elections. It ignores the fact that we lost elections, lol. So I am not sure how you can believe it. I prefer to think it is an empty battle cry for bravery.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #165)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:10 PM

167. I'm sorry yoiu gave up.

I never did.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #167)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:14 PM

170. Giving up in my view is ignoring political reality. nt

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:06 AM

10. K & R

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:21 AM

12. "I'm with her" is a creepy slogan. nt

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #12)

Thu May 12, 2016, 04:33 AM

26. So is "Working for us"

Who is this "us"?

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #12)

Thu May 12, 2016, 04:57 AM

28. As opposed to "feel the bern?"

No, that's not creepy at all.

Actually, yuck...

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #28)

Thu May 12, 2016, 05:32 AM

31. Actually I never liked that either. nt

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #28)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:41 AM

53. "feel the bern"

Is an invitation to join. "I'm with her" is an advertisement that you're a follower.

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #28)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:47 AM

56. "I'm with her" was concocted by an ad agency

by a bunch of people who were paid exhorbitant fees to manufacture a campaign slogan.

"Feel the Bern" was organically created by supporters of Bernie Sanders.

Once again, when these two campaigns are put side by side--we see one that is corporate-driven and manufactured, and one that is people-powered and authentic.

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Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #56)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:22 AM

95. I think "I'm with her" is an absolutely terrible slogan

It makes the campaign all about her, plus it implies (not incorrectly, but still, why imply bad things in a campaign slogan?) that there are people who are against her.

"She's with us" would have been a trillion times better. I can't imagine why they 1) use such a wretched slogan and 2) don't change it.

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Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #56)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:32 AM

100. Meh, it's the creep factor.

I was responding to the above poster who mentioned "creepy."

Feel the bern is about as creepy as it gets, IMO...

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #12)

Thu May 12, 2016, 05:48 AM

32. I'm withered

is what it means.

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Response to Laughing Mirror (Reply #32)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:01 AM

33. or "I'm with herd" - nt

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Response to Locrian (Reply #33)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:28 AM

36. That's what it boils down to

Herd mentality.

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Response to Laughing Mirror (Reply #32)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:53 AM

62. Yes, from the inside out! nt

 

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #12)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:45 AM

74. Of course you would think that.

 

In fact, if you didn't, I would have to question my previous impressions.



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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:52 AM

15. K&R

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 04:58 AM

29. K&R for the OP and Dragonfli's replies... nt.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 05:04 AM

30. +1 million

Watching them twist in knots is the second best part, reading it and laughing louder with each paragraph as I start to spill tears of rage, that was the best part.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:05 AM

34. K&R Spot On!

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:46 AM

35. I was pissed... And then my Modest Proposal meter started spiking. nt

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:33 AM

37. Between

you and me I'm sick of her already.

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Response to madokie (Reply #37)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:49 AM

57. 2008 put me over the top.

 

I've been sick of her since then! She could have stayed SOS for four more years and continued to suck up hundreds of millions there but she let her entitled self get greedy and came out to claim her prize. Sucks to be her that at least half of the Dems still care about integrity.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:52 AM

38. Is that the pledge they all sign? Sounds like it.

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:04 AM

42. This is the best post I've read here in quite some time...

...it sums up much of what I see from the Hillary side of things. She's got a "D" by her name? She's had it longer than Bernie? Doesn't matter what she's done, because they're with her.

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #42)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:50 AM

59. The bow of the Titanic is pretty full!

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:24 AM

44. It doesn't matter does it? Well written op.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:11 AM

45. Kicked and recommended!

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:23 AM

46. don't forget "I don't care about her massive legal liabilities, plummeting trust and approval

Last edited Thu May 12, 2016, 12:22 PM - Edit history (1)

ratings, sharply-poor numbers against Trump, and doing worse overall than Sanders: it's her turn"

it's basically personality-based--they venerate the person (letting them discard them once the term's over, 'cause it always was about what they projected on the pol and not what the pol does or says) and they identify themselves with the pol, anything negative on the candidate is taken as personal and as an attack, so they come back with everything they have and that they are

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:24 AM

47. I've been asking for reasons why to vote for Hillary...

...until now I couldn't figure out why her supporters never seem to mention any.

The truth doesn't matter to them.

They just don't care.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #47)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:29 AM

48. That is it in a nutshell.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #47)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:16 PM

117. it's crystal-clear: Hillary is Hillary, and therefore Hillary is not not-Hillary

also, Hillary is Hillary

Hillary!

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:37 AM

51. Boom! Best OP in a very long time.

This just lays it all out. Thank you, thank you!

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:42 AM

55. K&R And "Trudge Up The Hill". Because Republicans.

I don't get how horror of Republicans is supposed to be such a great motivator, when the Clintons have made our party so much like them.

An excellent find, 99th_Monkey.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:49 AM

58. Facts...

...but hey...she is giving out women cards so everything is cool.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:00 AM

63. Reading this OP and Dragonfli's responses is like being back on the old DU.

 

Before the words 'progressive' and 'liberal' were turned into newspeak by half the party.

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Response to vintx (Reply #63)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:07 AM

86. Exactly. I miss the days when we ALL thought Henry Kissinger was a war criminal,

 

and affordable college was a laudable goal, and everybody deserved affordable healthcare, and collusion with Kochs and Bushes was a bad thing. Sigh.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:00 AM

64. this is so clearly the last word

too bad it won't be the last word

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:05 AM

65. Exactly.

 

Policies don't matter, because she can't win if they do.
"I" am the only thing that matters.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #65)


Response to cyberpj (Reply #79)

Thu May 12, 2016, 12:43 PM

115. It was probably stolen by the person from whom I stole it, so yeah. n/t

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:07 AM

66. I stopped at the second sentence, because it's false.

"I don't care if she encouraged other members of Congress to vote for the war by stating it was a good business opportunity."

She didn't. Mr. Bulls is referring to a business consortium or conference in which she spoke to encourage investments in Iraq. It's a good thing when a war-torn country has capital so that it can build its communities, schools, and yes, commerce.

Further, she voted for a resolution -- not for what Bush did with it. It was clearly a mistake to trust him to do what he said he'd do (petition the UN and its security council to bolster inspections and oversight using the threat of military action if peaceful means were rejected).

So sick of reading these tirades based on hateful smears.

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Response to Sparkly (Reply #66)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:14 AM

68. Sorry..

 

...she sold the war on many occasions. Search YouTube to verify it. I lived it, watched it and am tired of educating her defenders!

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Response to peace13 (Reply #68)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:48 AM

75. No she did not "sell the war."

In fact, she said her vote would make a UN resolution more likely and thus would make war less likely. Of course Bush didn't do what he said he would, so she was wrong to trust him.

She also said clearly that dissent should not be "discouraged or disparaged," but was important. She didn't try at all to change anyone else's mind.

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Response to Sparkly (Reply #75)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:50 AM

76. Like I said, educate yourself.

 

Take a leap and go out there. Listen with your own ears!

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Response to peace13 (Reply #76)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:13 AM

90. Take your own advice, please.

Her full floor speech is about 20 minutes long. Listen to the WHOLE THING. She is very clear that she was NOT voting for an invasion, but for a UN resolution - diplomatic means for inspections to resume - with force as a last resort.



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Response to Sparkly (Reply #75)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:59 PM

146. LMFAO: So HRC's vote for the Iraq war was actually a plea for Peace! BWUHAHAHAH Maybe she'll

 

win the Nobel. LOL Do you believe Hitler's claim that he invaded Poland as a defensive action too?

I'm stunned that anybody falls for such horseshit, much less admitting so.

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Response to jack_krass (Reply #146)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:10 PM

155. Her idol Kissinger won a Nobel.

It wouldn't surprise me.

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Response to Sparkly (Reply #66)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:01 AM

80. +1, the right on DU:P isn't interested in honest conversation about her record

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Response to Sparkly (Reply #66)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:24 AM

97. + 1

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:09 AM

67. K&R

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:15 AM

70. Excellent thread and discussion by you and Dragonfli

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:39 AM

72. Kickin' for the truth!

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 10:39 AM

73. Oddly enough Zach Bulls appears to be a Bernie supporter

Pretty fake trying to make this sound like a supporter of Hillary, using typical Bernie talking points... some not particularly truthful.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #73)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:01 AM

82. So, one must ask: why do you support Sec. Clinton? n/t

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Response to xocet (Reply #82)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:25 PM

120. I've supported her for years

and I'd tell you why, but you really don't want to know so I won't waste my time.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #120)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:51 PM

142. That is an interesting - if not circular - point of view. That war vote though....

The political cost of opposing W was just too high.

The whole Iraq War thing would have been a stumbling block in the way of her successful career.

Luckily for her, Sec. Clinton had no problem leaping over that minor obstacle and fully believing W - after all, we all knew that deep down W would do the moral thing as a compassionate conservative.

I would say that Sec. Clinton's success is well-deserved and cheap at any price: it was only at the cost of 158,090 – 176,596 civilian lives (and counting). (www.iraqbodycount.org)

We can sure be proud of her success*.






[Of course, this post is sarcastically written.]

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #120)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:01 PM

164. Do you truly think ELEANOR ROOSEVELT would be supporting Hillary?? nt

 

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Response to Herman4747 (Reply #164)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:53 PM

175. Yes

I certainly do.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #175)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:29 PM

178. Well then,let me encourage you to read this:

 

Eleanor Roosevelt's Words

And then after thinking deeply endeavor to determine if each of the phrases you encounter suggest more support for Hillary, or instead more support for Bernie.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #73)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:09 AM

87. Do you recognize satire, sarcasm, or parody?

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #87)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:23 PM

119. I do, but no one seemed to be taking it that way

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:02 AM

83. It's frightening because this represents her supporters

Many don't know; but many don't care.

It's tough to decide which category is more dangerous.

She cannot be our nominee. The latest Reuters poll shows that she's lost 12 points in a Trump/Clinton match up. That loss was sustained in one week!!

As Trump/Clinton becomes more evident, she sinks like a stone. If Hillary thought Bernie supporters were tough on her, wait until she experiences the full brunt of the Republican Party and half of Independents that lean right (sorry the other half of Independents are Bernie supporters).

The righties been steadily feeding in a diet of rabid Hillary hate and hysteria through the talk radio, for 20 years. They loathe her more than any other political figure. Her foolish belief that she's going to saunter on over to the Republican side and gather votes there, is outrageous.

Her Brockian campaign and supporters treated Bernie and his supporters like shit. She has no choice but to scrounge for votes on the dark side. You have fun with that Hillary.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:05 AM

84. Once again the Hillary robots

 

say it's all wrong without specifically refuting anything.

Except to point out her claim that she thought her vote would allow the UN to intervene in Iraq, or something like that. How is it that a lot of us out here in the so-called real world understood quite clearly what that vote was all about, but she, and apparently a lot of others in Congress at the time, didn't?

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #84)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:27 PM

131. Yep, poor Hillary got duped by mean old w.

In the immortal words of Condoliar Rice," I don't think anybody could have predicted it."

Everyone knew what that vote meant, everyone, even poor naïve Hillary.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:07 AM

85. Yes the contortionist's

 

supporting her are all bent out of shape. But then again, they do not wish to examine her record, they wish to jam her tired right wing policies down our throats. Not interested.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:12 AM

89. Thanks for posting this, 99th_Monkey

 

It really says it all.

And bravo to you too, Dragonfli. You really did your homework and then some.

K & R

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:15 AM

91. Battered woman syndrome n/t

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:28 AM

99. If ANYONE ELSE ran with her record.. they would have had the success of Jim Webb.

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:32 AM

101. OCD..........

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:35 AM

102. A sad reckoning, indeed.

We will have to demand better behavior from someone about to head the party.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:36 AM

103. Or...

"Things were pretty good during the Clinton years. I'd like to see a woman president in my lifetime. I don't know this Bernie fella. If he was any good, if he had experience, I would have heard of him before. So I'm with her!"

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:50 AM

108. K&R&bookmark

 

Thanks for the thread.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 11:58 AM

113. and let's not forget -It's Her turn

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 12:01 PM

114. Excellent OP and all the additional information! nt.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 12:45 PM

116. That bout sums it up

for Camp Weathervane

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:50 PM

121. Best OP, best thread, EVER.

 

Thanks for posting it, 99th_Monkey. I hope Zach Bulls' excellent summation spreads throughout social media.

It's all the perspective we need.

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Response to senz (Reply #121)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:58 PM

124. It succinctly states why I could never vote for her...

I still have to look in the mirror every day. And I will not vote for,someone who has actively supported the forces opposing poor & working-class Americans, or pushed a foreign policy that has yielded endless war and bloodshed.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 01:56 PM

123. This is a great OP

 

K & R

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:03 PM

127. I care about all those things that are true.

 

Last edited Thu May 12, 2016, 02:56 PM - Edit history (1)

The Iraq War vote (which is far more nuanced than represented).

I agree with her stance on free trade and fracking.

I don't care how often her stances are misrepresented by Bernie and company.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #127)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:53 PM

144. 'mis-represented' ?

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #144)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:56 PM

145. ..

 



noted and corrected

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:28 PM

132. What doesn't matter,

is all the things you listed in the OP really don't matter to some Hillary supporters, because they are supportive of those things. Yesterday blew me away when one avid Hillary supporter here admitted that they are in support of Citizens United. They like the money in the game.

And those things listed above don't affect them personally, which is why they don't matter. If those things help the wealthy stay wealthy in this country, then that's OK because that is good for many Hillary supporters, who also happen to be well off and "they've got theirs"...so posting all this as if it will shame someone, is not going to do a thing to the way they think.

It really DOESN'T MATTER to them that these things affect so many Americans negatively. Or even the planet.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 05:43 PM

151. Recommended. You certainly do not monkey around on this post. eom

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:37 PM

159. K&effing-R

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:47 PM

160. This thread is amazing

I keep coming back over and over again to see if any Hillary supporter will talk about the issues. It is almost like trying to talk with republicans and all you get are slogans.

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Response to Nightjock (Reply #160)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:31 PM

179. I know what you mean.

To be fair, they are Republicans, so cut them some slack.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 06:58 PM

163. OUCH!

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 07:12 PM

169. None of that matters, no, because it's a load of horseshit. The cartoon is kind of amusing tho. nt

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #169)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:25 PM

176. True to form, no specifics re alleged "inaccuracies", just snark & denial. nt

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 08:27 PM

177. Starts with a full out lie and after that

I thought it must be intended as humor, but it's too dishonest to be humor. Couldn't get beyond the blatant lie in the second sentence.
BTW The vote for the Iraq war was 2002, the Iraq business opportunity was 2011-the State Dept. actually held a conference to try to get people to rebuild Iraq-the business opportunity bit is from one of those e-mails. It's tough to influence 2002 votes from 2011.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)


Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Fri May 13, 2016, 12:30 AM

185. So are 350,000 dead Libyans and Syrians...

...in large part, as a result of her role as Secretary of State.

You and the others supporting her carry that weight too.

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