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Sat May 7, 2016, 03:10 PM

 

Why It Matters That Hillary Supported Welfare Reform

Hot on the campaign trail in South Carolina last week, Bernie Sanders attacked Hillary Clinton for her role in pushing to overhaul the welfare system in 1996. “I spoke out against so-called welfare reform because I thought it was scapegoating people who were helpless, people who were very, very vulnerable. Secretary Clinton at that time had a very different position on welfare reform—strongly supported it and worked hard to round up votes for its passage.” A day later, former President Bill Clinton swiped back. “There’s no question that (welfare reform) did far more good than harm,” he said, but added that “subsequent events showed it needs some improvement.”

The Clintons have championed welfare reform for over 20 years—even as study after study has shown that it has severely harmed poor families, and driven a historic number of black and Latino children into deep poverty. In the early 1990s, they designed a strategy to lure white voters back to the Democratic Party: capitalize on white disgust toward “dependent” black and Latina mothers on welfare within a liberal veneer that promised them a “hand-up, rather than a handout.” As first lady, she not only cheered her husband’s goal to “end welfare as we know it,” but she also helped whip up support for the 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act (PRWORA), the legislation that remade the welfare system: “I agreed that he should sign it and worked hard to round up votes for its passage,” she recounted in her 2003 memoir Living History. Later, as senator, she continued to applaud it, referring in one 2002 interview to people who had left welfare as “no longer deadbeats—they’re actually out there being productive.” Even as recently as her 2008 run for president, she defended the welfare-to-work legislation as “enormously successful,” while lamenting that “people who are more vulnerable” would suffer more during the recession.

“They don’t acknowledge the number of people who were hurt. It’s just not in their lens,” Peter Edelman, a friend of Hillary’s since law school and former assistant secretary of social services at the Department of Health and Human Services, said of the Clintons in 2008.

But in her current campaign for president, Clinton, who is running as a “pragmatic progressive,” has publicly avoided the issue. At a time when many Americans are outraged over economic and racial injustice, she is quiet on the subject of welfare reform, because it tells a story of how she betrayed poor people of color and undermines her image as a feminist candidate who has been a lifelong champion for women and children.


(More at link)

http://www.thenation.com/article/why-it-matters-that-hillary-clinton-championed-welfare-reform/


Is she still silent on this?

I suppose it's supposed to be good enough that she's no longer defending it?

56 replies, 2618 views

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Arrow 56 replies Author Time Post
Reply Why It Matters That Hillary Supported Welfare Reform (Original post)
vintx May 2016 OP
dchill May 2016 #1
Broward May 2016 #9
dchill May 2016 #43
Downwinder May 2016 #2
puffy socks May 2016 #3
99Forever May 2016 #4
Ferd Berfel May 2016 #6
puffy socks May 2016 #7
Ferd Berfel May 2016 #8
puffy socks May 2016 #11
ljm2002 May 2016 #16
nolawarlock May 2016 #20
ljm2002 May 2016 #22
nolawarlock May 2016 #23
ljm2002 May 2016 #24
nolawarlock May 2016 #25
ljm2002 May 2016 #26
vintx May 2016 #32
Armstead May 2016 #21
TM99 May 2016 #30
vintx May 2016 #33
TM99 May 2016 #34
JDPriestly May 2016 #10
puffy socks May 2016 #12
JDPriestly May 2016 #14
ljm2002 May 2016 #15
senz May 2016 #39
Ferd Berfel May 2016 #5
vintx May 2016 #13
BootinUp May 2016 #37
Tarc May 2016 #17
vintx May 2016 #19
Tarc May 2016 #27
vintx May 2016 #31
Tarc May 2016 #46
vintx May 2016 #49
silvershadow May 2016 #18
tularetom May 2016 #28
vintx May 2016 #36
senz May 2016 #44
vintx May 2016 #47
senz May 2016 #50
CharlotteVale May 2016 #29
BootinUp May 2016 #35
vintx May 2016 #38
BootinUp May 2016 #40
vintx May 2016 #42
BootinUp May 2016 #45
AzDar May 2016 #41
senz May 2016 #48
doc03 May 2016 #51
BlueMTexpat May 2016 #52
vintx May 2016 #55
emsimon33 May 2016 #53
My Good Babushka May 2016 #54
vintx May 2016 #56

Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 03:14 PM

1. Didn't you know? In Hillary World...

If you ignore an issue, it just goes away. Also, if you shoot the messenger, the message was a lie.

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Response to dchill (Reply #1)

Sat May 7, 2016, 03:56 PM

9. Also, if you point out her wrongheaded actions,

you're sexist, somehow racist or some other bullshit.

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Response to Broward (Reply #9)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:31 PM

43. Exactly.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 03:30 PM

2. Like letting the Dr. who botched your hip replacement

have another go at it.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 03:38 PM

3. I agree with the welfare reform of the 90s

 

I agree with Hillary on this . Welfare back then was a giveaway to a ton of lazy people who used it for cable TV and they would sell food stamps for money for a 12 pack instead of feeding their kids. I've seen people cheat the system rather easily who say they are "looking" for work and applying for positions they knew they could never get so they could send their copied applications in as "proof" for unemployment and food stamps. Now they have to find work within two years to keep the help, I think that's a good thing.

There are certainly issues with the system because it doesn't help someone making current
min wage who is truly trying to get ahead any possibility of that climb up the ladder and it allows companies such as Walmart to use the system via underpaying their workers and then pointing them to the welfare office.

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Response to puffy socks (Reply #3)

Sat May 7, 2016, 03:40 PM

4. Rush, is that you?

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #4)

Sat May 7, 2016, 03:44 PM

6. clinton supporters that I agrue with here

are no different than the republican friends and acquaintances that I argue with in my personal life.

They both take most of the same positions and use the same arguments. I have to wonder, if she pulls this off, how long it will be before they stop pretending.

I'm seeing disenfranchised republicans not 'centrist' democrats.

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Response to Ferd Berfel (Reply #6)

Sat May 7, 2016, 03:49 PM

7. So its okay with you that people gamed the system

 

but you're all upset about people at the tops of corporations doing the very same thing?

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Response to puffy socks (Reply #7)

Sat May 7, 2016, 03:51 PM

8. eh, huh?

what the hell are you talking about and how does that relate to my reply

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Response to Ferd Berfel (Reply #8)

Sat May 7, 2016, 04:07 PM

11. Oh more of this! lmao!

 

me: I agree with Hillary's view on welfare reform in the 90s.

99 forever: "Rush is that you? "

Ferd :"Clinton are no different than the republican friends and acquaintances that I argue with in my personal life.
They both take most of the same positions and use the same arguments. I have to wonder, if she pulls this off, how long it will be before they stop pretending. I'm seeing disenfranchised republicans not 'centrist' democrats."

Since you apparently disagree with the policies that forced recipients to get work to continue getting government help because they are " the same positions and use the same arguments." as Republicans. Then it is logical to assume you think it's ok for people to have been able to game the system so easily.


Do try and keep up, I mean it's all literally posted in front of your face. but if you still need help , I'm always here!

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Response to puffy socks (Reply #11)

Sat May 7, 2016, 05:32 PM

16. "forced recipients to get work"...

...see, that is exactly the problem right there.

First: in case you haven't noticed, there isn't enough work to go around in the first place. And those on welfare are often (not always) the least trained, least qualified -- i.e., they won't be getting most jobs, and the ones they do will be the ones that don't pay a living wage.

Now combine that with single mothers who are forced to go to work -- work that doesn't even pay enough to cover their child care expenses, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Do some people game the system? Yes, of course. There is not a system devised by mankind that someone has not figured out how to game. As I said in my previous response to you, though, we would gain much more by going after the big gamers -- corporations, banks, the MIC and the very wealthy -- and we would not be inflicting suffering on any of them, except for the suffering they get when they see their bottom line reduced by a few percentage points, which will not affect the quality of their lives one damned bit.

JHFC I am sick of people defending this shit. And on DEMOCRATIC Underground, no less. My my, how the times have changed. Used to be, most of us here had actual liberal / progressive values.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #16)

Sat May 7, 2016, 07:17 PM

20. This is where I look to FDR ...

... [and Bernie is no FDR].

"there isn't enough work to go around in the first place"

Hence the WPA. I'm all for bringing that back. There's plenty of work to be done.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #20)

Sat May 7, 2016, 07:22 PM

22. Another short-timer...

...who has a provocative anti-Bernie gif at the bottom of his or her posts.

So while I am glad you are for a WPA-type program, it rings a bit hollow. Who the hell do you think is more likely to implement such a program, Hillary or Bernie?

Also your transparency page...

So no "Welcome to DU" from me. Looks like yet another recently-signed-up Hillary shill, just as we might expect, given Brock's recent announcement.

No I am not accusing you, just noting how... coincidental it is.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #22)

Sat May 7, 2016, 07:41 PM

23. Whatever. They're so stacked and bogus that I don't care.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #23)

Sat May 7, 2016, 07:46 PM

24. Well that was a meaningless response...

..."They're so stacked and bogus"?

That you don't care, though, is readily apparent. Hence my reluctance to welcome you to DU.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #24)

Sat May 7, 2016, 07:48 PM

25. Because they're bogus.

And when I demonstrated numerically how bogus they were, even that got hidden. It's bogus and I don't care what you think or how you feel about it.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #25)

Sat May 7, 2016, 07:49 PM

26. Well if you truly don't care...

...what I think or how I feel about "it", whatever "it" is... then why the hell are you responding?

Meh. Done here. TTFN.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #26)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:00 PM

32. It's cute how they're spinning themselves blue.

 

They're worried. I almost feel bad for them. Imagine the cognitive dissonance they must endure

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Response to puffy socks (Reply #7)

Sat May 7, 2016, 07:20 PM

21. Did you ever learn the difference between....

 

enforcement to prevent abuse, and totally upending and screwing up a worthwhile program for political expediency and cluelessness about what real life for real people on low incomes is like?

He'd agree with you...

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Response to puffy socks (Reply #7)


Response to TM99 (Reply #30)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:01 PM

33. No, just another Hillary supporter. Easy to get them confused though! nt

 

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Response to vintx (Reply #33)


Response to puffy socks (Reply #3)

Sat May 7, 2016, 04:01 PM

10. Somehow, the damage the bankers did to the world economy when they cheated their

customers bothers me more than the damage that an unemployed mother of a couple of kids does when she receives welfare money and stays home with her children.

It's a matter of values. I'd rather break up the overly large big banks and save the world economy than worry about people who might be abusing the welfare system.

I worked on a homeless project for years.

The other day, while campaigning for Bernie, I met a young man who could not fill out his voter registration card. Couldn't even print his name without falling apart. I asked him if something was wrong and he told me how sad he was. We were right next to a church, so I took him inside. This young man was jobless, homeless, had no family and was very uncertain about who he was or where he was except that he had been in foster care since the age of six, had been in juvenile hall and had been treated for a disability (I would guess a mental illness) at what we call the Regional Center.

Fortunately because of my background, I understood what being in a foster home, in Juvenile Hall and at the Regional Center meant. I'm not now qualified to give him much help, but I got him in touch with people who could help him.

I realize that those who are well set up in life, people like Hillary Clinton (who worked on children's issues when she was young and should know better) and Donald Trump do not understand just how both common and complex the issues of homelessness and need in our society are.

I do expect understanding from people who bother to come to a website like Democratic Underground.

Life is not such an easy path for many of us. And those of us who have been given the gifts of understanding, of the ability to learn and to take care of ourselves should live in great awe of those gifts and of the undeniable fact that they are merely gifts that we have been given, that we did not work for, that were our birthright through no merit of our own.

When you reach out to others with compassion, you can only feel humility and wonder at your own good fortune.

Welfare was a good program. In Los Angeles we face a flood of homelessness and joblessness. And it is much worse in third world countries. Have some compassion and understanding, please.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #10)

Sat May 7, 2016, 04:09 PM

12. "Somehow, the damage the bankers did to the world economy when they cheated their

 

customers bothers me more than the damage that an unemployed mother of a couple of kids does when she receives welfare money and stays home with her children."


That doesn't excuse allowing it from anyone. Its immoral and hypocritical.
I've worked for IHN for years, so don't go preaching to me about having compassion and helping poor people get off the streets.

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Response to puffy socks (Reply #12)

Sat May 7, 2016, 04:13 PM

14. What is IHN?

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Response to puffy socks (Reply #3)

Sat May 7, 2016, 05:08 PM

15. More Republican talking points...

...and the usual anecdotal "I actually know people who cheat the system".

Well guess what? You want to know who really cheats the system? Big corporations, big banks, the military, and the very wealthy.

But thanks for playing. Not ready to welcome you yet, something just seems... a bit off. As though you just came here recently to shill for Hillary... no, that couldn't be.

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Response to puffy socks (Reply #3)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:22 PM

39. Oh...Welfare Queens! Ronnie told me all about them.

 

Uh huh.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 03:41 PM

5. CLinton represents a huge dive to the right

and the coup de grace to a progressive and liberal Democratic Party

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Response to Ferd Berfel (Reply #5)

Sat May 7, 2016, 04:12 PM

13. I guess if she were to apologize for cheerleading for this, she'd be doing another about-face

 

There's no way for her to make up for this as far as liberal voters are concerned.

Those that consider themselves liberal and somehow ignore this issue, I do not understand.

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Response to Ferd Berfel (Reply #5)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:18 PM

37. Thats a fantasy/nightmare that ignores the fact that the country

left the Dems 10 years earlier in large numbers.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 05:46 PM

17. I support this as well

So, no probs here.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #17)

Sat May 7, 2016, 07:15 PM

19. So not surprised.

 

This place was not so infested supporters of right wing bullshit, once upon a time.

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Response to vintx (Reply #19)

Sat May 7, 2016, 07:55 PM

27. welfare reform is not a right-wing issue

The goal should be to give people temporary assistance while they get back on their feet, that is what the Clintons have supported.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #27)

Sat May 7, 2016, 09:52 PM

31. lol

 

Bless your heart.

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Response to vintx (Reply #31)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:42 PM

46. Bless your "free stuff"


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Response to Tarc (Reply #46)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:52 PM

49. Yeah, all those countries with better standards of living, what do they know!

 

Them with their better healthcare systems, their better infant mortality rates, their better education...

(Here, in case you'd like to learn something (lol yeah right!) http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/03/no-it-isnt-free-stuff-supporting-bernie-sanders-is.html )

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 05:49 PM

18. That was back when the Clintons were strenuously opposing NAFTA. They were busy.

 

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 08:03 PM

28. If Sanders would have made this primary a referendum on Bill Clintons presidency he'd be the nominee

already. He needed to keep her on the defensive. She doesn't do defensive well. She gets really...well, defensive.

So much bad stuff went down in those years. And some of us let it go because we were so preoccupied with the republican war on Clinton's private behavior that we ignored the really mean and nasty policies he was pushing.

She's not so likely to get a free pass from Trump.

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Response to tularetom (Reply #28)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:15 PM

36. If Sanders had taken the gloves off, we'd have heard nothing but bleating and wailing

 

and gnashing of teeth.

Half the criticism leveled at her gets met with cries of "SEXISM!" - can you imagine the uproar if he'd really gone after her?

He was trying to appeal to 'loyal democrats' who were in love with the Clinton[sup]TM[/sup] Brand. He played it carefully, but you're right - Trump will not.

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Response to vintx (Reply #36)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:33 PM

44. Actually, Bernie doesn't "take the gloves off" because

 

he's not interested in punching out other human beings.

He's interested in punching out poverty, hunger, bigotry, injustice, cruelty, and suffering.

That's just the way he is.

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Response to senz (Reply #44)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:43 PM

47. "Take the gloves off" is a metaphor and does not actually refer to "punching out" anyone. nt

 

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Response to vintx (Reply #47)

Sat May 7, 2016, 11:05 PM

50. lol, obviously!

 

What a funny thought!

I was talking about making personal attacks on people, insults, putdowns, character assassination, etc. Bernie doesn't do it. It's not in him. He's not cruel.

The closest I've ever seen was his dressing down of Alan Greenspan -- but that wasn't personal; he was attacking Greenspan's policies, and he was doing so because Greenspan was very powerful and his policies were hurting the American people.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 08:07 PM

29. Not good enough for me! It's sickening to see Democrats defend welfare reform.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:12 PM

35. The article also takes Bernie to task I noticed

Tough issue to deal with politically even today folks.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #35)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:19 PM

38. Yep. Turns out there's a consequence to tossing all that red meat out to racists

 

for the past three decades. But hey, chasing progressives out of the party to increase the $$$$ coming in was so worth it, amirite?

And now in addition to using dogwhistle phrases to appeal to racists, they're bringing out real classics like redbaiting!

Super smart, those New Dems are!

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Response to vintx (Reply #38)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:24 PM

40. The Clintons are reviled by the extreme left and the right, whats new? nt

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #40)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:30 PM

42. That has nothing to do with my post, but hey I get the need to change the subject.

 

I really do.

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Response to vintx (Reply #42)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:37 PM

45. Its an explanation for your little rant. nt

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:25 PM

41. K & R

 

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat May 7, 2016, 10:47 PM

48. Later she blamed the 2008 crash on people who bought houses they couldn't afford.

 

How could anyone with a conscience ever want her in the presidency?

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:32 AM

51. My brother lost his job for drinking back in those days. While he was out

of work he ended up getting a couple DWIs and doing some jail time. He just lost a desire to do anything but lay around and drink with
his buddies. At the time he had a wife and two small children. The best thing ever happened to him was the welfare reform, it forced him to straighten up and he got a job and took pride in his work. He did pretty good for several years until his wife divorced him and he went back to full time drinking again and ended up getting fired from his job. He passed away a couple years ago from the results of his drinking.
I believe if it wasn't for the welfare reform he would have drank himself to death years before.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 03:00 AM

52. Hillary may have supported it.

Bernie actually voted for it.

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #52)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:35 PM

55. Typical.

 

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 03:35 AM

53. K&R

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 07:19 AM

54. My lazy welfare mom

The welfare reform bill was incalculably awful and destructive. I was raised by a single mother who was also caring for a disabled adult child. (My father pretty much lost his mind and became an addict when the steel industry went down, so he was out.) They cut her off AFDC. She tried to get job training, but was told she was too old. She tried to get any job, but was told that they do not subsidize day care for adult disabled people- especially ones who have seizures every day and need constant attention, and cannot be left alone for a minute. She was utterly neglected and left destitute by these great compassionate, liberal policies. I went to work after school and helped out where I could, that was supposed to be the money I was saving for college. I hoped to never see another Clinton the rest of my days. It's my very personal grievance, but I'm keeping it. These people are no friends to the underprivileged or disabled. They didn't give any thought to the worth and dignity of someone who devoted their entire life to taking care of a disabled person, it wasn't worth shit to them.

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Response to My Good Babushka (Reply #54)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:37 PM

56. I had hoped we were shut of the Clinton as well. nt

 

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