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Fri May 6, 2016, 10:39 PM

Donald Trump: Sure, I Might Use Nuclear Weapons In Europe.

TRUMP: Let me explain. Let me explain. Somebody hits us within ISIS, you wouldn’t fight back with a nuke?

MATTHEWS: Can you tell the Middle East we’re not using a nuclear weapon on anybody?

TRUMP: I would never say that. I would never take any of my cards off the table.

MATTHEWS: How about Europe? We won’t use it in Europe?

TRUMP: I — I’m not going to take it off the table.


According to Donald Trump, the United States should not try so hard to stop nuclear proliferation. On Sunday night, during a Republican town hall hosted by CNN’s Anderson Cooper, Trump declared that proliferation is “going to happen anyway.” And just a week earlier, Trump told the New York Times, “If Japan had that nuclear threat, I’m not sure that would be a bad thing for us.” Nor would it be so bad, he’s said, if South Korea and Saudi Arabia had nuclear weapons, too.

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Reply Donald Trump: Sure, I Might Use Nuclear Weapons In Europe. (Original post)
Fresh_Start May 2016 OP
morningfog May 2016 #1
Kelvin Mace May 2016 #2
gordianot May 2016 #7
Kelvin Mace May 2016 #23
1StrongBlackMan May 2016 #3
BootinUp May 2016 #27
BillZBubb May 2016 #4
Fresh_Start May 2016 #5
BillZBubb May 2016 #8
Demsrule86 May 2016 #12
BillZBubb May 2016 #19
Demsrule86 May 2016 #24
cheapdate May 2016 #32
KingFlorez May 2016 #6
BillZBubb May 2016 #9
KingFlorez May 2016 #10
BillZBubb May 2016 #11
KingFlorez May 2016 #14
Fresh_Start May 2016 #16
BillZBubb May 2016 #20
Fresh_Start May 2016 #22
Demsrule86 May 2016 #13
BillZBubb May 2016 #17
Demsrule86 May 2016 #25
Demsrule86 May 2016 #15
BillZBubb May 2016 #18
Demsrule86 May 2016 #26
JonLeibowitz May 2016 #30
JaneyVee May 2016 #21
Basement Beat May 2016 #28
JonLeibowitz May 2016 #31
Basement Beat May 2016 #33
Blue Owl May 2016 #29
SFnomad May 2016 #34

Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 10:42 PM

1. If I were in the leadership of the GOP, I would drastically change the convention rules,

 

And subvert his nomination.

I would say enough is enough and wave good bye to those who supported him. They are playing a game they can't win and it is a dangerous one.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #1)

Fri May 6, 2016, 10:45 PM

2. This is a GOP wet dream

 

They dream of using nukes.

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Response to Kelvin Mace (Reply #2)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:03 PM

7. I once read a study on the cost of limited nuclear war.

Say a nuclear device on a couple large cities or major utility hubs sounds survivable. The cost of medical treatment alone would wreck a nations economy for decades. Nope nuclear war even the limited variety is not good for business even if you are self promoter like Trump.

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Response to gordianot (Reply #7)

Sat May 7, 2016, 12:40 AM

23. Logically and rationally this is true,

 

but Trump and his supporters, Hell most of the GOP, stopped playing in the sane world years ago.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #1)

Fri May 6, 2016, 10:48 PM

3. Or, book him on a small plane.

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #3)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:00 AM

27. Get him interested in Xtreme sports.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 10:56 PM

4. Trump didn't say that. He said what every president has said.

His position on non-proliferation, though, is scary.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #4)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:00 PM

5. He did say it...

to him its a negotiation strategy...

I don't even what them considered as a negotiation strategy.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #5)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:05 PM

8. Baloney. You put your spin on what he said. NO president has stated we would not use nukes.

It isn't a negotiation strategy, it is a long standing deterrent strategy.

We don't have to lie to make trump look bad.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #8)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:10 PM

12. I heard that interview; he said he would use nukes. Not even Reagan did that.

I never thought I would ever hear someone defend a racist POS like Donald Trump on this Forum.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #12)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:29 PM

19. Everyone except you, it appears, knows US defense policy with respect to Europe.

Nice of you to bring up president Reagan who famously said on the radio "We begin bombing in 5 minutes" with respect to nuking Russia. You conservaDems love you some Reagan.

I never thought I'd ever hear someone defend a racist POS like Reagan on this forum. We'll that's not so, Hillary and other conservaDems always talk fondly of him and Nancy.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #19)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:56 AM

24. Right

I never thought I would live to see the day when Democrats would risk electing a bigot because their guy lost. You know perfectly well...even Reagan means ...as evil as Reagan was...even he never threatened nukes. Name calling is all you have...you have no argument ...reminds me of kids with their eyes closed and fingers in their ears...screaming Bernie will win or I will hold my breath until I turn blue and then break all the toys.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #8)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:44 AM

32. Holy crap!

Did you see what Trump said? If "someone" from ISIS "hits us" "wouldn't you fight back with a nuke?"

So if "someone" associated with ISIS "hits us" Trump suggests he would respond by exploding a thermonuclear warhead, presumably in Syria, but who knows?

That is fucked up beyond all comprehension. It's so far outside the normal conception of war and the use of force that words fail me. There are concepts in just war theory, such as proportionality and non-combatant immunity that have developed in civilized nations. It's a good thing. Trump is a mad man. Words like that, coupled with the ability to actually carry them out, are extremely dangerous.

Minimize, downplay, and dismiss it all you like. But that is extremely fucked up. I just can't find a better way to put it right now.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #4)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:03 PM

6. Trump needs no defense

Judging from his reckless personality, it's clear what he meant. He has no business in the situation room, because he's too dangerous.

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Response to KingFlorez (Reply #6)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:07 PM

9. So, putting words into the guy's mouth is OK? Lying about what he didn't say is OK?

What he said about using nukes has been the US policy since the Cold War started.

I agree he's dangerous, but we don't have to lie to make that apparent.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #9)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:08 PM

10. Difference of opinion

I'll leave it at that.

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Response to KingFlorez (Reply #10)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:09 PM

11. No fact vs. fiction. Let's stick to the facts.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #11)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:15 PM

14. Whatever you want to believe

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #11)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:17 PM

16. trump and matthews dialogue is verbatim

then trump explains its part of his negotiation strategy.

Like many of Trump’s proposals, there’s a certain initial logic to his push to free the nuclear genie in east Asia. He cites the $19 trillion U.S. debt as the key reason for surrendering the U.S. nuclear shield over east Asia. “We can’t afford it anymore,” he told CNN Tuesday. “It’s very simple.”

But the entire U.S. nuclear arsenal accounts for only about 10% of the Pentagon’s annual $600 billion budget—and nearly all of that nuclear spending would have to continue to deter China and Russia. The added cost to tuck Japan and South Korea under the U.S. nuclear umbrella is minimal. The far bigger costs are the conventional, non-nuclear forces the U.S. has in both countries. There are about 53,000 military personnel (39,000 onshore and 14,000 afloat in nearby waters), 43,000 dependents, and 5,000 Pentagon civilian employees in Japan (the $1.6 billion that Tokyo pays Washington annually for their presence foots only a portion of their cost). Seoul pays about half as much to support the nearly 30,000 U.S. troops based on South Korean soil.



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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #16)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:31 PM

20. He didn't casually say "Sure, I might use nukes in Europe" in fact near the end of the

interview he says "I wouldn't use them..."

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #20)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:34 PM

22. I said the body of the OP was verbatim

the headline is not verbatim

and yes I said he explained its a negotiation strategy...
and after being push by matthews he said ..I wouldn't use them

let face it Trump says both things within 2 minutes of each other

THe other fun things he said...was something like why are we producing them (implying why are we producing them with no intent to use them)

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #9)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:10 PM

13. It's no lie

He said it and he meant it.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #13)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:18 PM

17. It's a lie. No president has ever said we will never use nukes in Europe or anywhere else.

This poster has spun that to suggest trump would casually start lobbing nukes at the first provocation.

There are cases when any US president would use nukes in Europe--that is a basic part of US defense doctrine. If trump has said "I'd never use nukes in Europe" he'd have been blasted as weak and undermining US deterrence in Europe.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #17)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:57 AM

25. No president has threatened to use nukes either

It was not done.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #9)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:16 PM

15. In fact it is worse than that


TRANSCRIPT

MATTHEWS: OK. Your most controversial suggestion was don’t take nuclear weapons — I mean, you may have been hooked into this by (inaudible).

TRUMP: Don’t take what?

MATTHEWS: Nuclear weapons off the table. I have been trying to think of how we could conceivably use a nuclear weapon in the Middle East or in Europe in fighting ISIS. Where can you — and why put it on the table or leave it on the table if you can’t imagine where to use it?

TRUMP: Well, I didn’t say, “Don’t take it.” I said I would be very, very slow and hesitant to pull that trigger.

MATTHEWS: Well, why would you — why wouldn’t you just say, “I don’t want to talk about it. I don’t want to talk about nuclear weapons. Presidents don’t talk about use of nuclear weapons”?

TRUMP: The question was asked — we were talking about NATO — which, by the way, I say is obsolete and we pay a dispropor…

MATTHEWS: But you got hooked into something you shouldn’t’ve talked about.

TRUMP: I don’t think I — well, someday, maybe.

MATTHEWS: When? Maybe?

TRUMP: Of course. If somebody…

MATTHEWS: Where would we drop — where would we drop a nuclear weapon in the Middle East?

TRUMP: Let me explain. Let me explain. Somebody hits us within ISIS, you wouldn’t fight back with a nuke?

MATTHEWS: No. To drop a nuclear weapon on a community of people that are…

TRUMP: No, no, but you can’t say — first of all, you don’t want to say, “Take everything off the table…”

MATTHEWS: No, just nuclear.

TRUMP: … because you’d be a bad negotiator if you do that.

MATTHEWS: Just nuclear.

TRUMP: Look, nuclear should be off the table. But would there be a time when it could be used, possibly, possibly?

MATTHEWS: OK. The trouble is, when you said that, the whole world heard it. David Cameron in Britain heard it. The Japanese, where we bombed them in ’45, heard it. They’re hearing a guy running for president of the United States talking of maybe using nuclear weapons. Nobody wants to hear that about an American president.

TRUMP: Then why are we making them? Why do we make them? We had (inaudible).

MATTHEWS: Because of the old mutual assured destruction, which Reagan hated and tried to get rid of.

TRUMP: (inaudible) I was against Iraq. I’d be the last one to use the nuclear weapon.

MATTHEWS: So can you take it off the table now?

TRUMP: Because that’s sort of like the end of the ball game.

MATTHEWS: Can you tell the Middle East we’re not using a nuclear weapon on anybody?

TRUMP: I would never say that. I would never take any of my cards off the table.

MATTHEWS: How about Europe? We won’t use it in Europe?

TRUMP: I — I’m not going to take it off the table.

MATTHEWS: You might use it in Europe?

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: No, I don’t think so. But I’m not taking…

MATTHEWS: Well, just say it. “I will never use a nuclear weapon in Europe.”

TRUMP: I am not — I am not taking cards off the table.

MATTHEWS: OK.

TRUMP: I’m not going to use nuclear, but I’m not taking any cards off the table.

MATTHEWS: OK. The trouble is, the sane people hear you and the insane people are not affected by your threats. That’s the trouble. The real fanatics say, “Good. Keep it up.

TRUMP: I think — I think they’re more affected than you might think.

MATTHEWS: OK. Your call.


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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #15)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:23 PM

18. No it isn't. trump got foolishly drawn into a conversation and explained his position awkwardly.

"I’m not going to use nuclear, but I’m not taking any cards off the table." Is all he should have said.

His position is long standing US policy.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #18)

Sun May 8, 2016, 12:58 AM

26. His policiy is not longstanding policiy

And exactly why are you supporting Trump?

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #26)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:26 AM

30. Not lying about Trump's position is not 'supporting Trump'

His position is long-standing policy: never take any options off the table.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Fri May 6, 2016, 11:34 PM

21. Dont worry, progressives, feel free to sit this one out.

 

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:09 AM

28. Why such the difference in opinion with Matthews...

...in using the nuke in the Middle East vs. Europe. If one is used, no matter the continent, a large number of innocent people will be killed.

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Response to Basement Beat (Reply #28)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:32 AM

31. One gets the impression that brown people don't matter so much to Matthews

Don'cha know....he's a progressive

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #31)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:06 PM

33. Certainly seems to be the case....

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:22 AM

29. Sure, toss that gambler the nuclear football

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Response to Fresh_Start (Original post)

Sun May 8, 2016, 01:09 PM

34. And the BoB'ers are willing to let tRump get his hands on the nuclear launch codes .... #smh n/t

 

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