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Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:53 AM

 

Stop acting like progressives would bear the blame for a Clinton loss.

Last edited Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Most of the posters here are not shy about explaining how she doesn't need our votes, how most of Bernie's supporters will vote for her, and how it's really undecided and swing voters who will decide the outcome.

Someone posted a poll showing she's expected to wipe the floor with trump. Well good. Then stop being assholes to we who will not hold our noses on this one.

You have no right to our votes and neither does she. And most of you are convinced you don't need us anyway.

Go beg and bully the undecideds and swing voters and leave us alone re: our vote in November.

103 replies, 3578 views

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Arrow 103 replies Author Time Post
Reply Stop acting like progressives would bear the blame for a Clinton loss. (Original post)
vintx Apr 2016 OP
sufrommich Apr 2016 #1
vintx Apr 2016 #4
puffy socks Apr 2016 #49
vintx Apr 2016 #51
1StrongBlackMan Apr 2016 #81
Chan790 Apr 2016 #97
Katashi_itto Apr 2016 #13
Chan790 Apr 2016 #98
Katashi_itto May 2016 #102
redstateblues Apr 2016 #2
vintx Apr 2016 #5
redstateblues Apr 2016 #30
SFnomad Apr 2016 #3
sufrommich Apr 2016 #8
vintx Apr 2016 #9
sufrommich Apr 2016 #11
vintx Apr 2016 #14
leftofcool Apr 2016 #25
redstateblues Apr 2016 #31
vintx Apr 2016 #60
Tanuki Apr 2016 #66
Chan790 Apr 2016 #99
Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #89
djean111 Apr 2016 #6
vintx Apr 2016 #10
pressbox69 Apr 2016 #7
djean111 Apr 2016 #15
pressbox69 Apr 2016 #32
BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #37
vintx Apr 2016 #61
Tanuki Apr 2016 #69
vintx Apr 2016 #82
djean111 Apr 2016 #38
Bobbie Jo Apr 2016 #62
pressbox69 Apr 2016 #68
Bobbie Jo Apr 2016 #71
Rebkeh Apr 2016 #12
redstateblues Apr 2016 #33
Rebkeh Apr 2016 #46
Chan790 Apr 2016 #100
Skinner Apr 2016 #16
vintx Apr 2016 #20
Skinner Apr 2016 #27
riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #42
Skinner Apr 2016 #44
riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #45
vintx Apr 2016 #48
Skinner Apr 2016 #64
JonLeibowitz Apr 2016 #78
vintx Apr 2016 #84
Skinner Apr 2016 #91
vintx Apr 2016 #93
Punkingal Apr 2016 #34
Califonz Apr 2016 #17
leftofcool Apr 2016 #23
redstateblues Apr 2016 #36
Autumn Apr 2016 #18
vintx Apr 2016 #22
Autumn Apr 2016 #35
riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #50
Autumn Apr 2016 #55
flobee1 Apr 2016 #26
Stuckinthebush Apr 2016 #19
leftofcool Apr 2016 #21
vintx Apr 2016 #24
leftofcool Apr 2016 #28
Renew Deal Apr 2016 #29
redstateblues Apr 2016 #39
Kelvin Mace Apr 2016 #41
redstateblues Apr 2016 #53
riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #67
redstateblues Apr 2016 #77
riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #80
Kelvin Mace Apr 2016 #73
vintx Apr 2016 #83
Kelvin Mace Apr 2016 #40
stevenleser Apr 2016 #43
flobee1 Apr 2016 #47
stevenleser Apr 2016 #52
flobee1 Apr 2016 #54
Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #56
stevenleser Apr 2016 #57
Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #58
riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #72
GoneFishin Apr 2016 #79
rhett o rick Apr 2016 #59
Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2016 #63
vintx Apr 2016 #85
MisterP Apr 2016 #65
vintx Apr 2016 #86
MisterP Apr 2016 #90
vintx Apr 2016 #92
MisterP Apr 2016 #94
procon Apr 2016 #70
Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #74
vintx Apr 2016 #87
flobee1 Apr 2016 #75
oldandhappy Apr 2016 #76
SidDithers Apr 2016 #88
Demsrule86 Apr 2016 #95
Democratic Divo Apr 2016 #96
KPN Apr 2016 #101
pampango May 2016 #103

Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:56 AM

1. You're on a discussion forum where people discuss shit

and sometimes don't believe the same shit you do. If you want to be left alone,coming to a political discussion forum seems like an odd choice.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:58 AM

4. Left alone ABOUT MY VOTE IN NOVEMBER

 

I said it in all caps so that maybe you'd notice it that time

Did it help?

Yes I'm Bernie or Bust and I don't want the clueless here puking at me over it. I'm in Texas. My vote is EXTRA not needed.

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Response to vintx (Reply #4)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:51 AM

49. 'I'm in Texas. My vote is EXTRA not needed."

 

The very attitude that keeps Texas red.

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Response to puffy socks (Reply #49)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:53 AM

51. Oh bullshit. It's all the voters.

 

I vote, but I'm outnumbered.

If you're blaming non voters for not turning the tide take it up with them.

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Response to puffy socks (Reply #49)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:25 PM

81. Amazing, isn't it ...

 

Rejects that with work and votes, Texas can go blue AND convinced that Bernie has a path to the Democratic nomination.

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Response to puffy socks (Reply #49)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:58 PM

97. So do unsupportable nominees.

 

You can't expect to gain ground (literally) and add states to the Democratic party's Electoral College bulwark if you give us shitty nominees that aren't going to excite anybody to want to vote for them.

Hillary's about as appealing as a Wonder Bread, Miracle Whip, and Velveeta sandwich left sitting on the counter in a Texas July for 4 hours.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:05 AM

13. Shes inevitable remember?

 

That goes for all DNC DWS backed candidates.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:01 PM

98. You know what else is inevitable?

 

Brain death. That doesn't mean we should be all that enthusiastic about it.

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Response to Chan790 (Reply #98)

Sun May 1, 2016, 05:35 AM

102. Exactly. They cheer clinton on like she actually has done

 

Something positive other than enrich herself at pour expense

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:56 AM

2. Is Nader running again?

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:59 AM

5. What does that even have to do with my post?

 

So many things posted here by her supporters explain so much about their support.

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Response to vintx (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:18 AM

30. Reminiscent of the "not a dimes worth of difference" attitude

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:56 AM

3. Another childish "I'm going to take my ball and go home" thread

 

How can we miss you if you won't go away?

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #3)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:59 AM

8. I tell myself I'm going to start ignoring the

tantrums,but keep getting sucked in.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:02 AM

9. Where's the tantrum?

 

What are you reading?

There's one subject which your side seems to have a great amount of cognitive dissonance on.

You don't need us, so why continue to bully us over it? Sport?

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Response to vintx (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:04 AM

11. You aren't being "bullied", that's such a dishonest

term to throw around. No one can force you to vote for Hillary,that's just utter silly hyperbole.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #11)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:07 AM

14. No, y'all can't force any of us.

 

But if you think posters aren't using bullying tactics then we are simply reading different posts.

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Response to vintx (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:14 AM

25. How many times do we have to say it?

I don't care how you vote! Can it get any more plain that that?

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #25)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:21 AM

31. It's the same old tactic of setting up the straw man

so that BSS can continue to be victims.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #25)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:04 AM

60. Another person assuming the OP is about them.

 

There are other people posting here and a lot of them have a lot to say about who Bernie's supporters will be voting for.

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Response to vintx (Reply #60)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:19 AM

66. It's a discussion board, as another poster pointed out, so of course everyone has "a lot to say."

DU is about electing Democrats, so why act like a victim if people are strongly advocating the election of the Democratic nominee (whoever it may be) in November? Nobody can "force" you to vote for anyone, so please stop acting like you are being bullied and coerced when people point out how stupid and antisocial it would be to fail to support the Democratic nominee when so much is at stake for our country and future generations who would have to live with the fallout of Cruz- or Trump-appointed Supreme Court appointees. I would say the same thing if Hillary were lagging as badly as Bernie currently is in the polls and her supporters were pouting and threatening to write in her name, vote for a spoiler, or sit out the election, thereby raising the risk of a Republican victory. I don't assume the OP is about me, btw, but I am responding any way. This is, after all, a forum, and all are free to reply to all posts unless it is a protected group.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #25)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:03 PM

99. I'm glad to hear it.

 

Now if you'd get your fellow [strike]quislings[/strike] Clinton supporters to follow suit, that would be awesome.

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #3)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:24 PM

89. Another arrogant "you must obey Corporatocracy" post


and drop your principles it's her turn








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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:59 AM

6. Well, it is not like a Hillary supporter can go into the booth with us, right?

 

The only real way they can get your vote is to fill out your ballot, whether in the booth, or mailed in.

I am not abandoning my principles just because of nasties on the internet.

And - being blamed for anything, by folks who are okay with bloody war and the TPP and means-testing Social Security and fracking, and other nasty shit - both meaningless - who cares? - and sort of an honor.

I'm sure the Third Way is all intent on how the votes are counted anyway.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #6)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:04 AM

10. Good point.

 

That melodramatic OP about how well be living in tents foraging for berries if trump is elected, and how it's all our fault.... It just made me want to make a plea for reason.

I should have realized it was a futile effort.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:59 AM

7. when you stop going

and get gone.

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Response to pressbox69 (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:07 AM

15. Newbie telling another DUer to "get gone"?

 

How quaint.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #15)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:23 AM

32. You're right

Last edited Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:11 AM - Edit history (1)

Why should a newbie point out phoney baloney dramatics. Carry on with the performance.

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Response to pressbox69 (Reply #32)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:28 AM

37. "Your right" comes to DU

Looks like Hillary is digging into the bottom of the barrel. I saw another one earlier today who wrote about Bernie "loosing".

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Response to BernieforPres2016 (Reply #37)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:06 AM

61. There has always been a sudden influx of this kind of crap here

 

around election time. It's fairly routine.

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Response to vintx (Reply #61)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:22 AM

69. Speaking of a "sudden influx of this kind of crap...around election time", you've only been here

since March 2, 2016 according to your profile. Perhaps there is more to your story?

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Response to Tanuki (Reply #69)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:04 PM

82. Yeah, there is.

 

I was registered under another name from 2004-2014.

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Response to pressbox69 (Reply #32)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:28 AM

38. DU is not about personal attacks. We have enough to argue about.

 

Begone, via that lovely Full Ignore feature. Not worth reading.

See the difference? You, too, can use full ignore instead of personal attacks.

You don't get to police DU.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #15)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:06 AM

62. Slight correction

Newbie telling another newbie to "get gone."

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #62)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:21 AM

68. Good catch

Sorry if I offended. I didn't know that some types are so fragile.

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Response to pressbox69 (Reply #68)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:26 AM

71. No offense here.



Welcome to DU.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:04 AM

12. No, I think some of the dirtier players

are trying to create some kind of equivalence between Bernie and Trump.

It will fail miserably, it's quite a stretch.

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Response to Rebkeh (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:25 AM

33. The BSS bullshit tactic is attempting to create equivalence between Hillary and Cruz

Every day-over and over.

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #33)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:47 AM

46. Wow

Lol

I see what you did there.

Nope.

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #33)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:09 PM

100. That would be silly.

 

Hillary is more of a Baroness Margaret Thatcher.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:07 AM

16. Let's be clear: The vast majority of progressives are going to vote for Hillary.

So no, progressives won't be responsible if she loses.

What we are talking about here are not "progressives" genernally but rather a very tiny subset of people who for whatever reason choose not to vote for Hillary Clinton.

But here's what I don't get.

If you don't want her to win the general election, and you choose not to vote for her because you don't want her to win the general election, then wouldn't you in fact be getting the outcome you wanted? Why not own it?

Put another way -- if someone told me in 2012 that I was to blame for Mitt Romney's loss to Barack Obama, my response would be "You're damn right it was my fault -- I didn't vote for him!"

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Response to Skinner (Reply #16)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:11 AM

20. I have never voted anything but straight ticket dem,

 

but I've often been conflicted because I do live in TX and I would like for the Greens to break the 5% barrier so that the country gets exposed to more progressive ideals.

I guess you missed the post where I said I live in TX, but that being the case, my vote isn't going to jeopardize our chances.

It isn't that I want Trump to win, it's that I want lefty ideas to have a bigger platform.

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Response to vintx (Reply #20)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:15 AM

27. So what you're saying is that you want Hillary Clinton to win but you're not voting for her.

If someone in Florida or Missouri or Virginia or some other swing state does that, can we blame them?

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Response to Skinner (Reply #27)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:34 AM

42. I read the post as s/he wants Greens to get 5% of the votes to get on future ballots

 

Hillary has very little chance of taking TX in their opinion.

Having Green Party candidates on the ballot allows more diverse progressive prospects.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #42)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:38 AM

44. That doesn't answer my question.

FWIW, I read the post the same way you did.

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Response to Skinner (Reply #44)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:46 AM

45. Ah ok.

 

I guess I thought this was your question


If you don't want her to win the general election, and you choose not to vote for her because you don't want her to win the general election, then wouldn't you in fact be getting the outcome you wanted? Why not own it? 


And I interpreted their answer as a vote for Hillary in TX doesn't really matter, she won't win there while a vote for Jill Stein expands the progressive ballot prospects in TX if they can get to 5%.

But in all honesty, I'm not that poster and probably should have just let them answer instead of jumping in.

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Response to Skinner (Reply #27)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:51 AM

48. Possibly, but we won't know that till November.

 

Maybe scotus will step in again and decide for us.

But my point is, with all the polling being bandied about and the awareness that its independents and swing voters who have more influence, then why the focus on we tiny few who simply chose this election to not hold our nose for whatever reason?

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Response to vintx (Reply #48)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:12 AM

64. Because if you want Hillary Clinton to win and you don't vote for her...

...you fail.

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Response to Skinner (Reply #64)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:18 PM

78. Again you assume a vote in Hawaii has the same effect as a vote in Ohio. That is not the case.

If you care about the Greens getting to 5% then the calculation in Hawaii or California is different than a swing state.

(Not that I'm advocating not voting for the nominee, just explaining what a reasonable non-DU-brainwashed voter might think)

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Response to Skinner (Reply #64)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:08 PM

84. What do you think the chances are of Hillary taking Texas?

 

Seriously...

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Response to vintx (Reply #84)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:48 PM

91. Very low but not impossible this year. But I'm still curious:

If someone in Florida or Missouri or Virginia or some other swing state wants Hillary to win but declines to vote for her, do they share some of the responsibility if she doesn't win the state?

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Response to Skinner (Reply #91)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:57 PM

93. Clearly they would. Swing states are battleground states - that's where the fight is.

 

Those are the places where I've always argued we can't afford to be too progressive because of the electorate - if the majority of democratic and independent voters won't back a more progressive Dem then that's just how it is - we get a moderate or even a centrist.

But the party has to stop openly sabotaging progressives. No one can seriously say the party has not intentionally hamstrung progressive primary challengers in areas where they would have been competitive. I've been telling people for years that we should all just suck it up and try to change the party from the inside, but I can't do it any longer and that's a very distressing thought. I doubt I'll even bother going to the state convention this year, though I was looking forward to it at one time.

The DNC has not been even-handed in this primary and anyone who thinks that's a recipe for increasing the numbers of the rank and file is simply fooling themselves.

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Response to Skinner (Reply #16)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:25 AM

34. Thank you.

I appreciate the acknowledgement that no progressive will vote for Trump. And many who now don't want to vote for her will probably do so when they actually get in the voting booth and see the names "Clinton" and "Trump" and the choice is absolutely REAL for the first time. That is what I came to realize for myself. I certainly don't want to "own" a Trump presidency. I prefer Bernie, but I will vote for the Democrat, as I always have.

Now, can you post a thread telling posters to stop calling life-long democrats here Republicans, and telling us to leave? I see daily posts about how Bernie supporters should just leave and I am tired of it.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:08 AM

17. I'm glad Hillary doesn't need my vote

 

because she ain't getting it!

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Response to Califonz (Reply #17)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:12 AM

23. So?

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Response to Califonz (Reply #17)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:28 AM

36. Another lo poster for Bernie. I doubt you were voting Democratic anyway

so it doesn't matter.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:10 AM

18. Here's what you do, stop talking about how you will or won't vote. Yout vote is your business,

your private business. Don't respond and let them talk to each other and the wind.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:12 AM

22. Like I said it was that one OP about tents and berries.

 

I shouldnt have bothered posting this obviously

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Response to vintx (Reply #22)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:26 AM

35. I don't know what post you are talking about

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Response to Autumn (Reply #35)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:52 AM

50. Its this lovely piece of work

 

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #50)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:58 AM

55. Oh for fucks sake.That's almost as bad as it's my duty to vote for Hillary

They are scraping the shit off bottom of the barrel.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:14 AM

26. So why the posts about mud huts

And foraging for food and children dyig.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:10 AM

19. Honestly, it is sound and fury

Representing sadness. No true progressive or Dem will withhold a vote in the GE or, worse, vote for Trump. It's just not going to happen at any significant level to make a difference.

It's normal for this animosity to happen at the end of a primary. It happens all the time. In the end the real libs/Dems/progressives support the Dem nominee.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:12 AM

21. You are assuming that I care about who you vote for.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #21)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:12 AM

24. No, you are assuming the OP is about you

 

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Response to vintx (Reply #24)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:16 AM

28. No I am not. It was all about you and pity you.

If you don't want to vote for Hillary then don't. The majority of progressives will indeed vote for her, so will indies, and swing voters who lean left. So will AAs, Latinos, Asians, NAs and women.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:17 AM

29. You already feel guilty about it

That's what this pre-emotive rationalization is about. Every single one of you "bust" types will be to blame just as every single Nader voter is to blame for the situation we are in today.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #29)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:30 AM

39. It's the 2016 version of "not a dimes worth of difference"

same shit-different year. Hey all you Naderites-Thanks for Bush/Cheney

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #39)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:33 AM

41. Because facts are ugly things

 

Gore won the election. The Scalia 5 appointed Bush.

Also, more than twice as many Dems voted for Bush, as voted for Nader in Florida.

But you keep telling yourself that.

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Response to Kelvin Mace (Reply #41)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:55 AM

53. Nader Denialism Lives!! Spoken like a true Nader voter.

There were other factors in play but the truth is that if voters in FL hadn't voted for Ralph "not a dimes worth of difference" Nader we wouldn't have had Bush Cheney. It amazes me that you Naderites still feel the need to justify a mistake.

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #53)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:19 AM

67. It's a myth that Nader cost Gore the election. That's been thoroughly debunked.

 

http://disinfo.com/2010/11/debunked-the-myth-that-ralph-nader-cost-al-gore-the-2000-election/

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/6/1260721/-The-Nader-Myth

I happily voted for Gore but I fully understand he ran a bad campaign and has no one else to blame but himself. He even lost his home state TN.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #67)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:14 PM

77. Debunked? All that is Naderites continuing to deny that they played a part

in electing Bush/Cheney. "Not a dimes worth of difference"? There were a lot of moving parts in that election but to deny that Nader voters in FL played a part in electing Bush/Cheney is disingenuous. It's just true.

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #77)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:25 PM

80. You didn't bother to read the links I see

 

Or you're bad at math.

Anyway, carry on. Everyone else can see it and that's good enough for me.

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #53)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:35 AM

73. Except that I voted for Gore

 

so you are wrong again.

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Response to Kelvin Mace (Reply #41)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:07 PM

83. They have to keep telling themselves that

 

Or else they might have to stop demonizing the left.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:30 AM

40. Projection

 

They know their candidate sucks. They know supporting her is wrong. But, they won't admit it to themselves, so they need a scapegoat.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:36 AM

43. Sure. As soon as you stop claiming you will pull a 2016 version of PUMAs. You cant have it both

 

ways.

If you threaten that you will withhold your vote from Clinton, and then turnout suggests she lost because of folks like you not voting for her, we're going to blame folks like you. I don't care what your reasons are.

If you don't want to be blamed, don't withhold your vote, and don't threaten to withhold your vote. You don't get to have it both ways.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #43)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:51 AM

47. . I don't care what your reasons are.

There it is

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Response to flobee1 (Reply #47)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:54 AM

52. Yup, and I stand by it. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #52)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:57 AM

54. I dont doubt tbat

Nt

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #43)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:59 AM

56. Actually, I can.

 

I don't live in a swing state...

A loss in November will be mostly on the short-sighted fools who nominated a venal, pandering, dishonest, incompetent candidate...not people like me who see her for what she is.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #56)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:01 AM

57. Nope, you can't and it has nothing to do with what state you live in. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #57)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:03 AM

58. Nonsense.

 

I'm not voting for Princess Weathervane, period. It will have zero effect on the result because my state isn't remotely in play.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #43)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:27 AM

72. Dem party membership is dropping. Its now at 29% of the electorate

 

If Hillary can't motivate enough people to vote for her, that's on her, nobody else.

The Democratic party has selected a poor candidate. That's on them and it won't be progressives fault if Hillary can't earn their trust or their vote.

Also if the party doesn't get smarter and begin allowing a deeper bench to get out there they're going to lose even more members. The DNC under DWS has suffered staggeringly high losses in Governerships, Congress etc.

None of this is progressives fault.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #72)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:22 PM

79. I know it. They put all of their resources into a seriously damaged candidate then blame everyone

but themselves.

If she can't get the votes, and the Democrats lose, then maybe they should reconsider the road they followed to get into that precarious spot.

They never will though. Because for them it is not really about Dem vs. Republican. It is about the 1% vs. average Americans. And in that regard Trump and Hillary on the same side.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:04 AM

59. They know they will have a hard time and need to demand the Left toe the line.

 

They don't know the Left. The Conservative Wing of our party is making the same mistake they made in 2000 and now need a scapegoat. Ralph where are you?

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:09 AM

63. The Love it or Leave it, Loyalty Oath, wing of the party demands obedience and silence.

 

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #63)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:10 PM

85. I'm from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party

 

and they should be less short-sighted.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:13 AM

65. they lost 11 Governors, 13 Senators, 69 Reps, 913 state seats *by* blaming the voters

this in fact gives them no reason to stop their losing streak, because to them it's never them, it's us

they say that "the purists" are the ones that say the left will swing back when America's had enough of the right, when in fact that's their only strategy

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Response to MisterP (Reply #65)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:11 PM

86. Precisely. nt

 

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Response to vintx (Reply #86)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:40 PM

90. and they always "telegraph" what they're gonna do whenever they blame the left--

2000 "third parties lost the election!" and then they back Lieberman, rely on voter caging, and do that "Red to Blue" crap
2004 "vote in the primaries!" and then they undercut that
2006 "the liberals are about to purge the party!" and then they purge the libs
2008 "the liberals are gonna take over the party mechanisms!" and then the make the veal pen
2010 "the liberals are gonna cost us Congress" and then they flop bigtime
etc

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Response to MisterP (Reply #90)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:49 PM

92. I wish I had kept a list of all the times when the party sabotaged a progressive primary candidate

 

and our establishment-backed candidate then ended up losing the seat to a republican anyway.

I remember discussing those contests while I was still on the 'no we can change the party, really!' side, and being left with nothing to say.

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Response to vintx (Reply #92)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:09 PM

94. my list is

Cegelis, Lamont, McKinney, Halter, Romanoff, Sestak, Grayson, Kucinich, John Russell, Buono, Lutrin, Rev. Manuel Sykes, Weiland, Wendy Davis

the punters they ran are Lincoln, Coakley, Mahoney, Alex Sink, Mary Burke, and (arguably) Grimes

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:25 AM

70. Stop with the whining.

If you're going to pout, go home and do it in private. All these repetitive, overwrought, emotional melodramas are nothing but attention seeking vanity posts.

Bernie lost. He lost because he didn't get enough votes. He lost because a majority of voters in more states rejected his message. He lost because his campaign wasn't nimble enough to mitigate the loss of voter interest. He lost because voters saw him as a single issue politician whose views didn't necessarily coincide with their top concerns. He lost because his public persona became a negative issue that turned off voters. He lost. Get over it.

You have one job: Vote. Get it right and the Democrats hold the White House, and possibly the Senate, and there's a better chance of legislating those progressive policies you want. Do it the wrong way and you'll usher in Trump and we'll lose everything. Your choice...

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:43 AM

74. She will NEver get the Independants

regardless of how badly they portray Drumph up to November. She will energize the RW base to come out to vote against her.

Then there is the potential indictment and the Wall Street Speeches..........

and the part where she needs to EARN votes, they aren't OWED to her except by the people she's paid for.

Bernie's fault? Bernie's Supporters' Fault?

Bark At The Moon!


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Response to Ferd Berfel (Reply #74)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:13 PM

87. It's surreal ... 'There's hardly any of you!

 

But if she loses ITS ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!! 111!1!ELEVENS!'

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:57 AM

75. and there's a better chance of legislating those progressive policies you want.

No there isnt
Payoffs are payoffs, and eventually those bills come due.

All that statement is is a carrot on a stick.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:06 PM

76. True Independents in Ohio and Florida will decide the election.

Best to spend efforts on sane repubs in those two states to vote for clinton.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:14 PM

88. Similarly, they'll carry no weight after a Clinton victory, if they don't participate...nt

Sid

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:34 PM

95. Progressives would not be to blame

As progressives would vote for Secretary Clinton. Nope. those who claim to be progressive and did not vote would be to blame...they are not progressive...but addicted to a candidate.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:36 PM

96. What Clinton loss?

 

You seem to be so convinced she's going to lose without that 1% of Bernie voters that will stay home.

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:59 PM

101. Yeah!

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Response to vintx (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 07:20 AM

103. If anyone loses to Trump, it will not be the fault of progressives but the 'credit' of racists and

xenophobes in the republican party and elsewhere. There are plenty of them in the republican party as their primary is proving. Fewer outside of their base. Since Cruz is no better, indeed is much worse than Trump, the racist and xenophobic base of the GOP is clear for all to see.

Liberals in purple states (like my Ohio) have a harder to decision to make than those in solidly blue or red states but that is often the case. It is both exciting and a pain. I'm sure many republicans here were not happy about Romney in 2012 but voted for him anyway because Ohio is usually a toss-up state. Liberals have the same decision here from the other direction.

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