2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHere's my opinion regarding Bernie's campaign.
As a Bernie supporter in New Mexico, I want him to stay in the race until the end because I think every voter should have their say, even if it's symbolic. I would be opposed to Bernie contesting the convention because we need to be unified by then. After tonight I think he should basically not mention Clinton and just stick to his positive economic message and throw in some jabs against Republicans while he's at it.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)hertopos
(833 posts)I love Dem moving to the left and I also appreciate Sanders for raising a lot of important questions.
I also believe Clinton will be the best person to get things done against Republicans.
Hertopos
djean111
(14,255 posts)After all, she is for war and fracking and the TPP and means-testing Social Security, amiright? What could be more Republican than that?
Oh, and Hillary has not only NOT moved to the left, but she will keep on moving to the right. You can take that to the bank.
djean111
(14,255 posts)supporter.
We are not going to be "unified". And Bernie is in it until the convention.
Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)I like Clinton, but I agree with Bernie on far more issues.
TheFarseer
(9,319 posts)If he wanted to go nuclear, he should have done it long ago. It's too late now.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)phony "unity" and allowing Clinton and the Dem Establishments to gloss over those pesky little issues
Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)to concede a few issues and add them to her platform. That would be a good step towards party unity.
djean111
(14,255 posts)There won't be any party unity - if by party unity you believe that Bernie's supporters will learn to love a Third Way warmonger and support her.
Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)But I am a big believer in voting for the lesser evil, if you will, in order to keep Cruz or Trump from ever stepping foot in the White House.
djean111
(14,255 posts)It is not a matter of "loving" someone. It is a matter of not validating a candidate who is for war and fracking and the TPP and cluster bombs and bloody interventions - you know, things that are quite Republican in nature.
And the young, newly aware voters? They are not going to see any reason to vote for either evil - they know they are fucked, no matter what. Your beliefs are not relevant.
Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)Of course that's their choice. I think Bernie's revolution will continue, regardless of who wins the presidency. I think he has helped change the discussion forever in the Dem party. And millennials will be key to making sure true progressivism isn't swept back under the rug.
djean111
(14,255 posts)I will just leave peacefully.
Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)Hopefully they realize that if they continue to drift right, then a third more liberal party could very well emerge.
djean111
(14,255 posts)And I don't waste my time with "hopefully" bullshit. The Third Way has taken over the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party has turned hard right, I won't hang around. I have seen too much bullshit from Debbie DINO, down here in Florida, to fall for the "wait and see" crapola.
That's enough, methinks! 'bye!
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Having through too many cycles, I don't think we should not allow them to keep dismissing people who are not center right as the "fringe far left" and continue to push us in the wrong direction.
Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)I think Sanders candidacy is historic and will change the party forever to more economically progressive platform.I believe his revolution will continue, no matter who's president, as long as Bernie supporters don't lose heart after the primaries. I just think it's critical to keep the right-wing crazies out of the White House.
djean111
(14,255 posts)But hey, cheer up - HRC says she doesn't need our votes anyway, so it is all good! We don't have to overcome our gag reflexes, and she does not have to pretend she moved a millimeter to the left!
Armstead
(47,803 posts)But we cannot be allowed to fall into a collective coma yet again
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)There is way too much animosity out there, there are a large portion of Bernie supporters that will never vote for hill and the idea of unifying behind her is way too distasteful for many of them they will vote down ticket and either leave the top blank or write Bernie in.. the democratic party as we knew it is not going to survive this primary..
Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)I believe a Republican presidency would be disastrous, especially given how radically right-wing crazy this latest bunch is. I do hope Clinton adds some of Bernie's economic ideas to her platform. That would go a long way in getting many Bernie supporters on board I think. Of course everyone is free to vote how they choose in the end, but for my part I'll be voting Democratic in the GE.
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)Talk a good deal but she is not trustworthy, if she said the sun was out at noon I would have to look... if she is the nominee, and they dump trump like I believe they are planning to any really decent moderate R will wipe the floor with her..She is way closer to repug ideals than dem
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Bernie needs to keep hammering home his message.
Clearly Hillary and her supporters don't give a shit about it.
They're truly prepared to send our planet over the cliff to nominate Madame President.
Well then they own every last single horrific disaster coming up.
Can you live with yourself and vote for "incrementalism" on dealing with climate change and her enthusiastic support for massively polluting industries like fracking?
I am devastated for my children that we've decided to fuck them over.
Its on your head then if you too decide to vote that way.
Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)And I will vote for him in NM when our primary arrives. But I continue to believe that a Republican presidency would be worse on every single issue than a Clinton presidency. One example is the ACA. I know it's nowhere near as good as it should be and I'm in favor of single payer. But if a Republican gets in and guts the ACA, I could literally die. I have cystic fibrosis and if it wasn't for expanded medicaid and the pre-existing condition clause, I would be in a world of trouble. Selfish? Maybe. But that's how I feel. I do respect your opinion though.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I'm deeply sorry for your health woes. I have severe asthma and a recent heart attack so I understand health concerns.
Don't forget it was corporatist Dems who scuttled a public option. That's camp Hillary.
I can look beyond the length of my nose and say that Bernies plans for health care are FAR superior.
While also endorsing a politician willing to lay it on the international line for climate change.
Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)I'll admit that I haven't given climate change as much thought as I should and I need to change that because it is such a huge issue for this world.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)You seriously advocating setting aside your conscience because SCOTUS?
SCOTUS means shit in 5 years. Who will have the. luxury to fucking debate Hillarys UN Ambassador? 1% ers. Not you and I.
We'll be trying to figure out where to emigrate when the Western aquifer is poisoned by Oklahoma's fracking.
I have 2 daughters.
Tonight's result dooms them.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Why does your profile say "Favorite Group - Hillary Clinton Group"?
djean111
(14,255 posts)It is kinda funny, it is so formulaic.
Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)It was to congratulate Clinton supporters on a couple of early primary wins. I've never hidden the fact that I like Clinton. I just agree with Bernie on far more issues. The reason why I'm voting Dem in the GE no matter what is because I have cystic fibrosis and can't afford to have the Republicans gut the ACA. Without the pre-existing conditions clause and expanded medicaid, I'd likely be dead.
djean111
(14,255 posts)Bwhahahahaha!
Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)But I don't think she'll repeal it like a Republican would. I've said many times that the ACA isn't that great and is largely a boon for the insurance companies. But, I believe, it's better than what we had prior.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)If you look at my membership history (been a member for over 10 years) and my posts from the last few months, it is pretty obvious that I am a genuine Bernie supporter. But I agree 100% with this OP.
Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)I only have 100 some posts now, but I used to go by a different username until I changed locations and couldn't remember my username or password lol. But I've been a good progressive for years and resent people insinuating that I'm some type of troll (not you of course )
Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)to congratulate them on a few wins early on in the primary season. Otherwise I stay out of groups.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)You pretty much summed up my feelings perfectly. I am glad I am not the only Bernie supporter who feels this way. I have been afraid to express these opinions for fear of being labeled a sellout or accused of giving up too early. As much as I wanted him to be the nominee, I think we all need to acknowledge how unlikely that is at this point.
Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)Polls show some 75% of Sanders supporters will vote for Clinton in the GE. And Bernie has said the same. I would love for him to be the nominee but I just don't see how it could happen. If it somehow does, then I'll be ecstatic to be voting for him!
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)The Sanders candidacy was the catalyst, but it takes more than a few months for a revolution.
He should stay in the campaign to build that coalition of individuals willing to wrest control of the DNC from Wall Street. We (the public interest) won't win public office until we rebuild the party from scratch.
The alternative is to create a third party - an even steeper climb.
We now know where this movement can take root; the west coast.
The Sanders supporters need to control local party offices everywhere in the west. Elected superdelegates should get the message loudly - we've had it with the cronyism and corruption.
Turin_C3PO
(13,944 posts)I tend to think the Dem party will have no choice to move leftward, but I've been wrong about that before. A thrid party could very well emerge if the DNC isn't receptive to this movement and change some platforms of the party.