I think I am deleting this post because my ambiguous use e of language might have accidentally

[dinkytron]

Last edited Mon Apr 25, 2016, 11:40 PM - Edit history (1)

offended others. Sorry guys..

[Actor]

1. They must not know what is good for them. Maybe you could sit them down, talk slowly

and explain it to them.

Because the only reason must be that they dont know what they are doing, right?

Maybe they just need YOU to explain it to them.

[Wilms]

6. Lots of new posters give it a few weeks prior to being rude.

A question was asked in the OP. Period.

Do you have to attack someone for that?

Some people make it their job to stir shit up on line. Don't be one of them.

[Actor]

18. I am the one being rude YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME

And here I thought this was a place for liberals.

[Wilms]

21. While we're at it...

Why do women think HRC is the bee's knees when she says she'd consider limits on reproductive rights?

Or did I just insult women?

[Sparkly]

40. She did not say that.

She was answering a hypothetical starting with ZERO restrictions, and included the late-term provisions for protecting the LIFE and HEALTH of the woman. We are so far from that it's ridiculous.

[Wilms]

50. So abortion remains a political/legal issue, rather tan only a personal/medical one.

[Sparkly]

69. Umm... WHAT?!?

She was asked a question. She answered the question.

By the way, Planned Parenthood endorsed her -- quite strongly -- so if you know something they don't, be sure to alert them.

[Wilms]

79. Their membership alerted on them.

And I'll alert anyone who missed it that it was their executive board, not the rank and file membership, who made that decision.

Of course, PP top exec is often on air as an HRC surrogat AND her daughter was in charge of HRC'S Iowa (Ibelieve) campaign.

[grasswire]

90. yes, that's true

Some organizations have "endorsed" HRC via the top management, while the rank and file desired the opposite.

Heck, the Congressional Black Caucus PAC endorsed her, but allowed America to think it was the CBC making that pledge. It wasn't.

[Wilms]

96. Fraud takes layers. n/t

[puffy socks]

134. lol

[Sparkly]

117. Proof, please?

I trust Cecile Richards.

[wildeyed]

141. bees knees?

BEES KNEES WHO said that?

[Squinch]

45. Welcome to the fun house. It's "opposites month" around here these days. Where

up is down and right is wrong.

[Sparkly]

71. LOL!

I hope it ends soon.

[grasswire]

52. Yes, you are rude.

Apparently you didn't get the memo instructions about creating unity.

[puffy socks]

127. Bernie's crew only accepts "true Progressives" whatever that is

because they are committed to including everyone.
I wonder if these people truly cannot see how arrogant it is to imply all black people are too stupid to vote "correctly" , i.e. for Sanders.

[Duckhunter935]

130. Yes you are

[dinkytron]

25. Thanks for getting all in my grill in the most predictable way instead of answering a sincere

and fair question. Your user name is quite apropos.

[Actor]

29. Sincere? Dear god.

The last thing you are is sincere phrasing a question like that.

So no, not in the least are you sincere.

[grasswire]

54. Back off.

Don't always assume that a Democrat with questions is an attacker. That's a knee jerk reaction and it is harmful.

[Actor]

75. Bullshit, questions my ass. You dont ask questions that way, you make ACCUSATIONS.

[grasswire]

83. Way to win voters for your side, pal.

Way to help Hillary.

[Actor]

88. News for you pal, I am one of those rare Bernie supporters who isnt also

....you can fill in the blank

[grasswire]

92. sure nt

[Actor]

104. It is like dealing with people who have never voted before.

[grasswire]

105. Look, sonny

You have a lot of nerve coming here and insulting long-time members and people who have voted Democratic all their lives. Just back off with your aggression.

[Actor]

107. Wait, so they have voted Democratic "all their lives" but for some reason not for Hillary if

she ends up with the nom?

i see we arent discussing blaming blacks, maybe we should do that

[grasswire]

108. Who you voting for, sonny? nt

[Actor]

109. Twice now you have intentionally said something with the purpose of insulting me,

fortunately I would love to be a "sonny" in some ways so I wont take offense.

For the record, I am voting for Bernie and have supported him and known about him longer than many here have been alive.

[Lizzie Poppet]

100. Riiiiiight.

You're not fooling anyone, I trust you realize.

[Actor]

101. You are embarrassing yourself and the process when you say silly stuff like this.

Thank god there are Bernie supporters who dont buy into this garbage about black people and how they are to blame.

[Lizzie Poppet]

103. Your concern duly noted.

[JimDandy]

140. You are new here so you may not know about all the Bernie Butters who have posted here

Due to their posting patterns, it was painfully obvious to other Sanders' supporters that BBs in fact weren't really for Bernie and sure enough, inevitably, those BBs would post a "I used to be for Bernie, but..."

It was laughable and has now become a running joke.

That's where Lizzie is coming from.

[wildeyed]

143. This is a discussion board.

People can reply, even if you don't like what they say.

The OP is instigating. So now we play It's what they were hoping for. Be real.....

[insta8er]

84. 2) Racism. We were instructed to hammer home how Bernie supporters were all privileged white student

2) Racism. We were instructed to hammer home how Bernie supporters were all privileged white students that had no idea how the world worked. We had to tout Hillary's great record with "the blacks" (yes, that's the actual way it was phrased), and generally use racial identity politics to attack Sanders and bolster Hillary as the only unifying figure.


The full context of this post can be found here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511831731

[Actor]

87. Why are you posting that to me?

[Duckhunter935]

132. If the shoe fits

[IamMab]

2. Well now they definitely won't, since you were so kind as to stop by and properly educate them.

SSDD

[Jackie Wilson Said]

4. But maybe this person needs to do a national commercial explaining to blacks and

nobody else how to vote, you think?

[IamMab]

9. Maybe this person is one of Bernie's "rural" supporters, and the talking points only just arrived

by Pony Express?

[Maru Kitteh]

32. By Jove I think you've nailed it!

[Sparkly]

3. Maybe because that is not what "her stance" would do and they know that.

As should you.

[Live and Learn]

12. It is what the Clinton's stance has already done and you know it.

Or are you claiming she is suddenly disavowing her husband's stands even though she actively participated in getting them passed?

[Sparkly]

24. The 1994 Crime Bill

included some very good provisions that did help many people. Mass incarceration was never the goal.

Looking at what happened 22 years later, it's easy to see the whole criminal justice system needs an overhaul, especially regarding drugs. Hillary Clinton has spoken about that and put together a very comprehensive plan.

It does not include putting people in prison for possession of pot.

[Live and Learn]

114. Ha, Bernie knew and said it would lead to such.

Are you claiming Hillary isn't as bright?

[Sparkly]

125. I don't know about Bernie's vote, but I would say "Ha" right back...

Bernie didn't care about violence against women!

Bernie didn't care about putting more police on the streets in communities being destroyed by crime!

Bernie just wanted the Black communities to self-destruct into mass chaos, and opposed gun regulations hoping they'd all shoot each other, and figured he could always do some rant about any attempts to solve the problem (maybe, "hey, no more police or arrests, leave these people alone!&quot .

I know the game better than you do. I'll leave it at that.

[Live and Learn]

126. Apparently, you don't know much. Bernie voted for it because of the Violence Against Women portion

and the assault weapon ban. But, he warned against the other portions of the bill passionately and his claims have been proven correct.

Hillary went on her rant about "super-predators" instead.

Your comments on Bernie are just absurd.

[puffy socks]

129. Bernie had no problem throwing the black community

into mass incarceration for women?
What about black women?

[Live and Learn]

131. He was against it and he said so. You guys just want to have it both ways.

Sorry it doesn't work that way. The truth is the truth.

Hillary is the candidate that supported mass arrests.

[puffy socks]

136. He was against and then voted for it.

Bernie can have it both ways?

We don't know if that is true and yes I'm aware he made speeches and then turned right around and voted for it anyway. But it sure sounds good now that the war on Drugs has become so unpopular. The very same thing Hillary did with the bankruptcy bill and for the same reason, to protect women. When Hillary does it , it's a cardinal sin.
Please don't tell me Sanders is the most honest candidate because Politifact has already shown that not to be the case.
Your arch nemesis Hillary holds that title as well as more votes than any of the candidates Democratic and Republican.

[Live and Learn]

137. Are you just pretending not to comprehend? It really isn't that complicated.

I stated it quite clearly a few posts up thread. Try reading it again or do some research of your own.

You are really making yourself look like a low information poster.

[brooklynite]

5. Why isn't everyone smart enough to like MY candidate???

[puffy socks]

133. Bernie's camp knows it all. If we all don't listen to them the planet will devolve into total chaos

within months after Hillary is inaugurated.

Whatever shall we doooooo?

[wendylaroux]

8. dinkytron you rascal,get back to your own group!!!!

[rbrnmw]

10. Why don't the black folks love Bernie?

Maybe you can tell me what it is black folks don't know about Bernie, and Hillary is just awful, it's not like I have already heard it thousands of times this season.

[bettyellen]

11. why do you think marijuana is a black issue?

[Live and Learn]

14. Because blacks arrested for it are much more likely to end up in prison for it. That's why!!!! nt

[TheDormouse]

31. Amen.

[Sparkly]

41. Which is why Hillary Clinton has proposed a complete reform package

to put an end to that.

[scscholar]

49. But what has she done?

Or Bernie? All we have is talk with no action.

[jack_krass]

63. No she Hasn't

Her "reform package" is an overly worded bunch of nothing, the jist of which is to push Marijuana from Schedule-I to Schedule-II, the same as morphine, oxy, and others. This means that even possession can still be a Felony, punishable by a long prison term, but *can be used as medicine*.

This sneaky little trick satisfies both Hillary's Prison industry donors, and her Pharma donors. It would be brilliant if not so corrupt and evil. This scheme was probably drempt up not by Hillary (who I don't think is very smart, just very corrupt) but by Lobbyists of Pharma or PIC (prison industrial complex).

MJ should be COMPLETE UNSCHEDULED BY THE FEDS, like Alcohol (which is much more damaging). However, Neither Hillary or Republicans will ever do this.

[Sparkly]

76. Wrong.

You have not read it.

[jack_krass]

80. I sure as hell did read it. Her plan proposes to push MJ to S-II

[jack_krass]

85. link here:

This is a Mother Jones article, but I've actually went to her website, and read her policy declaration

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/11/hillary-clinton-marijuana-medical-schedule-reclassified

[jack_krass]

91. Also schedule-II: Cocaine, methamphetamine. It will remain illegal but be usable as medicine

[Sparkly]

118. If you read it you saw this..

She will:
Take action on mandatory minimum sentences. Excessive federal mandatory minimum sentences keep nonviolent drug offenders in prison for longer than is necessary or useful and have increased racial inequality in our criminal justice system. Hillary will reform mandatory minimum sentences,
including:
Reducing mandatory minimum sentences for nonviolent drug offenses by cutting them in half.
Applying Fair Sentencing Act of 2010 retroactively to allow current nonviolent prisoners to seek fairer sentences.
Eliminating the sentencing disparity for crack and powder cocaine so that equal amounts of crack and powder cocaine carry equal sentences and applying this change retroactively.
Reforming the “strike” system to focus on violent crime by narrowing the category of prior offenses that count as strikes to exclude nonviolent drug offenses, and reducing the mandatory penalty for second- and third-strike offenses.
Granting additional discretion to judges in applying mandatory minimum sentences by expanding the “safety valve” to a larger set of cases.

Focus federal enforcement resources on violent crime, not simple marijuana possession. Marijuana arrests, including for simple possession, account for a huge number of drug arrests. Further, significant racial disparities exist in marijuana enforcement, with black men significantly more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than their white counterparts, even though usage rates are similar.

Hillary believes we need an approach to marijuana that includes:
Allowing states that have enacted marijuana laws to act as laboratories of democracy, as long as they adhere to certain federal priorities such as not selling to minors, preventing intoxicated driving, and keeping organized crime out of the industry.

Rescheduling marijuana from a Schedule I to a Schedule II substance. Hillary supports medical marijuana and would reschedule marijuana to advance research into its health benefits.

Prioritize treatment and rehabilitation—rather than incarceration—for low-level, nonviolent drug offenders. Over half of prison and jail inmates suffer from a mental health problem, and up to 65 percent of the correctional population meets the medical criteria for a substance use disorder. Hillary will ensure adequate training for law enforcement for crisis intervention and referral to treatment, as appropriate, for low-level, nonviolent drug offenders with mental health or addiction problems. She will also direct the attorney general to issue guidance to federal prosecutors on seeking treatment over incarceration for low-level, nonviolent drug crimes. Read more on Hillary’s plan to tackle America’s epidemic of addiction.

End the privatization of prisons. Hillary believes we should move away from contracting out this core responsibility of the federal government to private corporations, and from creating private industry incentives that may contribute—or have the appearance of contributing—to over-incarceration. The campaign does not accept contributions from federally registered lobbyists or PACs for private prison companies, and will donate any such direct contributions to charity.

[Live and Learn]

110. +10,000 nt

[bettyellen]

116. that is first and foremost a justice system issue. white people smoke just as much, and so it is

weird and just embarrassing to claim it's to help the AA community.

[Live and Learn]

119. Where did I claim anything? Now who should be embarrassed?

Oh yeah, anyone voting for Hillary and pretending she cares about blacks or anyone or anything else other than her own pocketbook and prestige.

[davidn3600]

68. Go look at the stats

Blacks (and Latinos) go to jail and prison far more than whites when it comes to drug crimes. It's just a statistical fact.

What I mean by that is that a white person is likely to be harassed by the police. And the justice system is likely to give a white person more opportunities to get out of the system even if they fall into it. With blacks, the police harass them more. Judges tend to give them longer sentences. And they don't have the money or social structures to get out of the revolving door of the justice system.

But...it's their vote. They want to vote for the Clintons who supported the war on drugs and mass incarceration....that's their business.

[JaneyVee]

13. Do you think all black people smoke marijuana?

[Live and Learn]

15. Do you think all millennials are shallow? nt

[JaneyVee]

17. No, not at all.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. I suspect most of them don't think they should go to prison for it if they do.

[Sparkly]

42. HRC agrees with them. nm

[Warren DeMontague]

46. So she should reconcile the conflict btw federal and state law by descheduling it federally.

Changing the scheduling from I to II does not reconcile that conflict, and it leaves recreational AND medical users in otherwise legal states at the mercy of any future executive - think Chris Christie - who decides to round them up and incarcerate them.

At some point, the rubber meets the road, here. If you dont think people should go to prison for using marijuana, you dont support laws which say they do. If you dont think people should go to prison for flag burning, you dont sponsor laws that say they do. Etc.

[Sparkly]

64. By snapping her fingers?

That's the problem. She is running with a platform that is REALISTIC because she is likely to take it into the GE.

A.) To pretend Congress would pass a law legalizing pot is dishonest; and
B.) To imagine the GOP wouldn't make hay of such an idea in the GE is to not know the GOP.

Please read what she says about this.

[Warren DeMontague]

78. Changing the scheduling is an executive privilege.

Hell, apparently even the HHS secretary could unilaterally decriminalize cannabis.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Removal_of_cannabis_from_Schedule_I_of_the_Controlled_Substances_Act#Rulemaking_proceedings

Also, on "political reality" perhaps you havent been paying attention to the polling on this issue.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/186260/back-legal-marijuana.aspx

The GOP can read polls- and electoral college maps - as well as anyone, specifically to the point where colorado is a crucial swimg state.



And lastly, if this is a GOP versus us issue, why is it that some of the most noxious propenents of stuff like putting sick people in prison for medical marijuana use are people like our own DNC chair?

[Sparkly]

121. See "B" above. nm

[Warren DeMontague]

124. So Debbie Wasserman Schultz is craftily pre-empting a Republican push to put medical marijuana users

in prison by voting for it herself and working with Sheldon Adelson for the same?

Does Hillary support something akin to the now-defuct CARERS act? It was a bipartisan piece of legislation. And the most recalcitrant pro-criminalization reefer madness pols in the senate are Grassley (R) and Feinstein (D).

[jack_krass]

70. No, she doesn't

I will not let this lie stand

[Sparkly]

77. LOL!

Well, you sure told me!!!

[jack_krass]

102. Happy to help, and glad you get a laugh about

Minorities being disproprtionately targeted in our drug war. Are you a drug warrior? one of their cheerleaders?

[Sparkly]

120. I am close to the issue.

I'll just say that.

[TheDormouse]

99. No, but lots of police do

and African Americans' fellow citizens don't seem to have a problem with that.

[Rebkeh]

16. That's a good point

But then, you ask that as if it's all supposed to make sense.

[dinkytron]

35. I give up. The misery of incarceration is something I have witnessed. It wrecks not

just he lives of the incarcerated but it destroys families. All the the stress, both emotional and financial. All the missing fathers. The social shame. All the wasted hours dealing with prison visits and bureaucracy. All the promises unfulfilled.

And I like how so posters got in my grill and made it a racial issue. Frankly, as a non practicing Jew who's relatives were mostly wiped out in Eastern Europe, I greatly identify with African Americans. Blacks and Jews have a lot more in common than they seem to realize.

[Rebkeh]

39. Agreed

I give up on trying to reason with unreasonable people, myself.

I hope you don't mean giving up on progress though.

[Sparkly]

48. I don't think anyone disagrees with you.

It's miserable. It destroys people and families. It's painful emotionally and financially. It is a social shame, as you said.

I didn't read all the replies but if anybody got up in your grill, it could be about sensitivity carried over from other posts suggesting that people of color -- who vote for Sec. Clinton more than for Sen. Sanders -- are not informed.

[grasswire]

59. I am sorry that you got hammered for asking a sincere question.

Too bad we have to tip toe around here.

Bravenak once did answer my sincere question, when I asked what kind of change she wanted to see in how progressives address the issue of race.

But I have been hammered, too.

[Live and Learn]

111. +10,000 nt

[Warren DeMontague]

19. No, to be fair, that's really only Debbie Wasserman Schultz's stance.

I mean, she's the one who keeps voting to send recreational and medical users to prison.

Hillary has studiously avoided displaying the real leadership on this issue that both the situation -and, now, the polling numbers- warrant... that said, she has essentially promised to continue the relatively hands-off Obama federal approach to states legalizing for recreational and medical use.

Some of this, of course, has been out of the feds' control, and I am sure there has been NO shortage of screeching and wailing from the drug war crowd. But the fact is, in many jurisdictions, US attys can't get a jury to convict, say, a medical marijuana user and send them to prison, no matter how much the US atty in question (Melinda Haag springs to mind) may wish they could.

It is a legitimate question, of course, as to whether a HRC administration would have responded the way Obama's did, in 2012, to CO and WA legalizing, or would she have directed a harder-line response. But it's too late for that now.

Hillary has committed to moving marijuana federally from schedule I to II, which does little except make it easier for big pharma to patent derivatives, but she has also verbally committed to not coming in and overturning the will of the states that have legalized for recreational or medical purposes. Her approach still leaves it illegal at the federal level and does not fix the conflict btw federal and state law-- obviously Sanders' proposal to deschedule it entirely (and his acknowledgement, philosophically, that the drug war is a failure) is preferable. But it is at least a small step in the right direction. At least she's not going full Chris Christie/Debbie Wasserman Schultz in advocating wholesale arrests of pot smokers in legal states.

[pnwmom]

20. Hillary spoke out against mass incarceration and for criminal justice reform

in the first major address of her campaign.

But most black voters lives don't revolve around the legalization of marijuana.

[Warren DeMontague]

23. If it's such a minor, jokey, non-issue

can we please stop giving the DEA billions and billions of our tax dollars to "fight" it, then?

[qdouble]

26. Surely marijuana legalization is the #1

Issues to all black people over 30. Clearly there wasn't a ton of black people who also supported tougher crime bills in the 90's but want to reverse course due to unintended consequences

[silvershadow]

27. It boggles my white male mind. nt

[pinebox]

28. One of the defining factors in her Colorado loss

[KingFlorez]

30. Perhaps because they prefer her to the other candidate?

People tend to vote for candidates they know.

[Maedhros]

33. For the most part, I think many voters (of all backgrounds) don't connect the dots

between Hillary and a whole host of objectionable policy. Combine that with those who mistake campaign platitudes for policy, and you've got Hillary's base.

Propaganda works just as well on Democrats as it does on Republicans.

[amborin]

37. ^^ this ^^

[Sparkly]

53. On the other side, I think some voters make connections that aren't valid

to support outlandish implications (i.e. that HRC is a sinister, greedy, bloodthirsty murderer).

It's easy to do. Republicans have used the same tactic over and over again, so I agree with you -- propaganda works.

[Warren DeMontague]

57. Would you acknowledge that having DWS - who defends putting pot smokers in prison - as the public

Face of the DNC, and closely associated with the Clinton campaign, doesnt help?

[Sparkly]

72. I don't know or care what DWS thinks

as long as she "defends" the Democratic party.

[Warren DeMontague]

82. When she's not conference calling with sheldon adelson on this, huh.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/10/28/casino-billionaire-sheldon-adelson-is-behind-85-percent-of-floridas-anti-pot-campaign/

Or "defending" payday lenders.

She's an embarassment.

[Live and Learn]

112. +10,000 nt

[TheDormouse]

34. OP asks an excellent question

People are familiar with Hillary--the Clintons have been in the national spotlight for decades now. Sanders has been a relative unknown.

Hillary has also locked up support of the Democratic establishment, including most prominent African American leaders, has been given the nomination de facto by the media , and has wrapped herself in the Obama cloak. Obama remains extremely popular among African Americans. Plus, she has the religious angle that Bernie isn't as able to draw on.

[dinkytron]

44. Appreciate the thoughtful answer. When I think of the misery perpetuated on non violent prisoners

and their families all because of marijuana, I just shudder. And its just going to go on. And its sad. So many wasted lives.

[Sparkly]

60. It does not have to go on.

Racial Justice: https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/racial-justice/

Criminal Justice Reform: https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/criminal-justice-reform/

THIS is why urban communities and people of color support her!!

[grasswire]

61. yes, that

As a prison reform activist, I've visited many prisons around the country, and received and read 12,000 letters from prisoners. The disproportionate caging of PoC is etched in my mind. And to think it was all planned, to neutralize the Black males and break up families in the interest of profits for the Prison Industrial Complex.

Maddening.

[Sparkly]

65. Are you saying HRC planned or supported it to "neutralize" black men

and break up families for the sake of the Prison industry?

Not accusing you of saying that -- just making sure.

[grasswire]

81. No.

But someone was callous enough to do just that. And one of Nixon's people reported that the war on (some) drugs was absolutely intended to do just that.

Hillary supported her husband's legislation that exacerbated the damage to black families.

Listen. I have been an elected delegate to the American Correctional Association, representing the voice of prisoners. I have been to the trade shows where thousands of vendors display the things/services they sell to corrections entities. I have seen the feeding of the giant maw of profit-seeking politicians with their "get-tough" laws.

The war on PoC males happened. Drugs were the bait. Incarceration was the hammer. Families were ruined. Men of color were dropped from voter roles.

The Clintons contributed to that war.

[Sparkly]

123. grasswire...

You and I have both been on DU for a long time now...

Hillary supported her husband's legislation that exacerbated the damage to black families.
- Even leaving alone the intent, support and positives outcomes of that, she was First Lady. Come on.

I have been an elected delegate to the American Correctional Association, representing the voice of prisoners.
- We are on the same side.

The war on PoC males happened... (snip) The Clintons contributed to that war.

Since slavery, we've been struggling to reach the point of basic civil rights. "The war on PoC males" started with our revered Founding Fathers. The easy blame on "The Clintons" -- who have a record of support for and among Black communities -- is absolutely ABSURD.

If you're talking about the 1994 crime bill, you know as well as I do the the intention was to stem crime in the inner cities and it included some MUCH needed provisions. You also know that looking back, it's clear things went badly wrong in the system. Nobody here is disputing that.

But this is NOT the fault of Sec. Clinton. She could have turned her back on these communities years ago if she were all about being mercenary or murderous or whatever she's accused of here.

She NEVER DID. Black people KNOW that. You can go back 22 years in an effort to pin something on her, but that shows just how far you have to go to prove a point that does not exist.

She's been there. There is a reason she has support among African-Americans (and it is NOT that they are unaware).

[Maedhros]

56. Note that al of these things are ephemeral and bear little on how Clinton intends to govern.[n/t]

[Tarc]

58. You're not-so-subtly insinuating that Hillary is basically a Pied Piper

leading all the African-American Dems down the road to he voting booth. Have you ever considered the possibility that the majority of them just do not agree with Sanders on various issues important to them?

[TheDormouse]

66. Pied Piper? Interesting metaphor. You should expand it beyond African American

Democrats.

[Tarc]

74. Perhaps Sanders and his followers should spend more time actually appealing to issues A-As

feel are important to them, rather than denigrate them for not choosing your guy.

Just a thought.

[TheDormouse]

89. I missed where Sanders supporters were putting down African Americans

[Tarc]

113. Many Bernie supporters have had threads hidden at the DU for alleging

"Stockholm Syndrome" in the A-A electorate.

And to do a 2-for-1 on the PM response...yes.

[NCTraveler]

36. You have a great point to make....

Yet you have addressed it in a way that makes it appear you are trying to make cheap political points all while claiming a whole group doesn't know what is best for them because of that singular point.

I truly do think a portion of your thoughts make a great argument.


Post Headline: Clintons Stance on Marijuana Disporportionally Harms Minorities and The American Dream

Body:

1) Outline Clintons position.

2) Provide statistics showing it disproportionally harms minorities.
a) number of arrests as a percentage
b) number as a percentage leading to jail time

3) Article or your own thoughts on real life impact.
a) often the start of the revolving door
b) jail time for something legal in many communities in the U.S.
c) damage to employment opportunities


As for me, I think this is an area we can demand Clinton change. We currently are.

[dinkytron]

47. I like your headline so much better than mine. I don't think I can change it now, though. Thanks.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

38. do you not know any black people in real life, so that you could go ask them?

i'm deadly serious. there have been so many Du'ers who support Sanders who are confused by black people, makes me wonder why none of you seem to have any black friends.

[JI7]

51. and then ignore what most black people

will say and have been saying.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

55. that too.

[Codeine]

94. Better to ask a mostly-white, Bernie-heavy

political discussion board. That way the answers don't make them uncomfortable.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

95. and only respond to answers that confirm their viewpoint too.

[lib87]

122. And Use Outdated AA terms like "up in my grill" When You do!

[Squinch]

43. Now tell us about how Bernie's welfare policies should be making black people flock to him.

Cause, isn't that what you guys do?

[Codeine]

97. Too bad we can't rec posts.

[SecularMotion]

62. This place needs a good cleaning

[cnter][/center]

[Sparkly]

67. That would explain the crazy!

[imari362]

73. As a Black woman

I will never understand why other Blacks vote for her under any circumstances, especially after 2008 and they continued in 2016 but after her "firewall".

The so called Black leaders who laid the Clinton's on the carpet in '08 about their antics against Obama then went full force Clinton this election showed me their true selves and I lost a lot of respect for them for their lack of integrity, they reminded me of Blacks who are Republicans..."tow the party line at any cost"....disgusting

I'm an Independent who has always voted for the Democrat in Presidential elections, and have rallied all those I know...all my family are registered Democrats....to go vote, vote for the Democrat...even if they don't know anything about them..many don't follow politics...., my reasoning being "it's not what they Democrats will do for you it's about what the Republicans will do to you", BUT not this time if Hillary is the nominee, I will not speak up for or against her I will just stay silent.

[Firebrand Gary]

93. I seriously cannot believe you posted this?

Number 1: To assume that the majority of blacks smoke marijuana is insulting. Number 2: To further the argument and insinuate that the blacks are one issue voters is infuriating.

[Maru Kitteh]

135. Right? It's one of the most openly racist OPs I've ever seen on DU.

[nolawarlock]

98. Are we really going here again?

I've said online and off, Donald Trump has not just moved the needle of racism and bigotry. He has moved the entire spectrum. The things I have seen here and elsewhere have just horrified me. It's also been noted that the African Americans community had its best median income when Clinton was presented. Some African Americans are not for gay rights or abortion. Others might be business owners who want lower taxes. Still others might even support the economic policies of the Republican Party. My point here is, why should any group be completely boxed into one set of ideas or requirements? There isn't a one-size-fits-all model in politics. People are drawn to their candidates of choice for a variety of reasons and these paternal posts about what all black people should support, typically written by excessively concerned white people, if not racist, are incredibly condescending.

Didn't we get enough of this from the now-banned WillyH? And yes, I am calling him that in reference to that most famous race-baiter, 41.

[northernsouthern]

106. Because...

Not all my black brothers and sisters are stoners. :p
Many in Alabama that were arrested for drugs never even did them, and it is the same all over. I got stopped by some racist white cops in AZ because they were targeting the Navajos I was out with. Mass incarceration doesn't need the drugs. Heck, never met a relative in Texas because he sold pot and was locked up my entire childhood. No clue if he is even alive. No one talks about him, so figured there is some bad blood.
So a bigger issue would be her stance on prison, and the death penalty. Heck Bill ran back to Arkansas in 1992 to sign off on the execution of a mentally challenged black man. I feel this is a pointless argument as it does involve a bit of why don't they know better, instead of the more constructive, Bernie did better with most other groups like asian...what is he doing right, and how can he take that lesson and expand it to out reach to others. There are tons of people of color fighting to get Bernie support in their communities, but I am sure the upper tiers of the DNC do their best to make sure Bernie does not do better with the Black vote because they know they can only argue they do well with older rich...that's all.

[nolawarlock]

115. I agree with Bernie on the legalization of Marijuana ...

... even though I've never done it, am not into mind-altering drugs, and barely drink. However, it's not about whether the substance is good or bad. The law's the law, there are means of changing unjust laws, and I don't think marijuana rises to the level of necessitating civil disobedience.

I think both Clinton's have long understood the negative ramifications of the crime bill that Bernie also supported at the time. We were dealing with a crisis and not just in black communities. I remember the 90's and every other white person I knew was doped up on something. Heck, it's even worse now where I'm from. That particular city may just be the heroin capital of the universe. There are often unintended consequences of laws that we pass. I don't think the Clintons wanted to see unfair mass-incarceration of black people anymore than the Religious Right wanted their lawsuit for after-school bible study in the classroom to result in gay-straight alliances or lawmakers in North Carolina want hairy-chested trans-men using the ladies room. Now that we've seen the results, we try to fix those side effects as best we can.

[asuhornets]

128. So r u saying?

African-Americans = marijuana usage = mass incarceration?

[gollygee]

138. Do you realize you are equating being black with smoking marijuana?

There are not higher rates of drug usage among black people than among white people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

139. There are a few good reasons

1.- Roots, they Clintons have built those bridges for decades,

2.- Patronage, Parties are about patronage

3.- Known name and face

4._ People do not connect the dots and the media has not done a 5 part series on any candidate and their policies... so of course none has really spoken of this

There are other reasons that better not be mentioned in public, But they are also very strong. If you wish I will PM you with one o them.

[wildeyed]

142. THANK GOD YOU BROUGHT THIS UP!

Because it has been SUCH a productive line of debate on this site before, we DEF need to discuss it more

[Warren DeMontague]

144. The reason it hasn't been "productive" is because the mainstream national democratic party is

failing to lead on something which a majority of Americans- and certainly a solid majority of Democrats- know is a good idea.

So you're stuck with one team forced to defend the indefensible - that they themselves don't actually believe in - so what usually happens is, those people make jokes, try to change the subject, or ignore it altogether.

[wildeyed]

145. What are you even talking about?

Even the OP learned some shame and took it down (Thank you, OP. You did the right thing.) But you are still trying to defend that mess?

[Warren DeMontague]

146. Im talking about putting people in prison for pot smoking

Which most reasonable people short of chris christie, sheldon adelson and debbie wasserman schultz think is indefensible.

[bigtree]

147. too late