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Sun Apr 24, 2016, 10:59 AM

 If You’re Going to Accuse a Democratic Campaign of Election Theft, You Should Offer Some Evidence

I think the recent efforts to argue that the reason why one candidate is winning over the other is due to election fraud are incredibly misguided. First, there is no evidence that election irregularities have systematically helped or hurt one campaign over the other. Indeed, to the extent that there has been voter suppression of minorities, you could argue that this has hurt those campaigns, which have drawn more support from minorities than whites.

Second, argue that the whole electoral process is fraudulent and that the results are simply wrong suppresses the vote. After all, how can you get out the vote when you are also insisting that the vote does not really matter, because the tabulations are fabricated? Thus, it does not make sense to try to mobilize voters with wild accusations of voter fraud, because the logical result is that voting does not really matter.

Third, this reeks of Republican efforts to argue that President Obama was not really legitimate. We have gone through 8 years of Republicans insisting that President Obama has somehow usurped the Presidency, that we need to have the people have a voice in the selection of a Supreme Court justice, ignoring the 2012 election results, and we ourselves want to introduce the idea that the Democratic nominee and potential President is not legitimate?

Finally, and I think most importantly, if there was real evidence of fraud, Bernie's campaign would be all of it. He has gobs of cash on hand. Indeed, if he had real evidence of fraud, it might help him to mobilize support. However, making a false accusation would also tank his campaign and totally undercut his message.

http://www.thenation.com/article/if-youre-going-to-accuse-a-democratic-campaign-of-election-theft-you-should-offer-some-evidence/

But how well do these claims support the charge that the primaries are being rigged? Without getting too deep into the weeds, what’s clear is that Fitrakis and Wasserman don’t require much in the way of evidence to allege that an election is being stolen.

An example: In their original piece, they claimed that in Iowa, “Clinton’s ‘victory’ apparently turned on six coin tosses, all of which she allegedly won.” That would have been odd. But, as I wrote to Wasserman via e-mail on April 3, this was an early report that had later been proven erroneous by CNN, NPR and The Atlantic, among others. There’s no complete record of the ties that were decided by a coin flip in Iowa, but two things are clear: Sanders won his share, and since each flip determined only a tiny fraction of a single delegate, they had zero impact on the outcome. But as of this writing, their post remains uncorrected.

Another: Fitrakis and Wasserman claim that “there’s clear evidence that Bernie actually won the Massachusetts primary, which the corporate media and official vote count gave to Hillary.” They write that polls in Massachusetts showed “Bernie substantially ahead of Clinton prior to the voting,” but FiveThirtyEight’s weighted polling average on the eve of the primary had Clinton up by double digits and gave her a 94 percent chance of winning. Given that Clinton won in a squeaker, it was actually Sanders who did better than the polls predicted.

They go on to cite an analysis by Richard Charnin, who writes a blog devoted to “JFK conspiracy and systemic election fraud analysis,” claiming that, as Fitrakis and Wasserman put it, “Bernie won all the precincts with hand-counted paper ballots but lost all the ones with electronic voting machines.” The implication is clear, but the problem is that, even if Charnin’s numbers are accurate, the vast majority of precincts in Massachusetts use optical scanners. So we run into a small sample problem, and a result that’s easily explained by Sanders’s faring better than Clinton in small, rural towns that hand-count their votes.

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply  If You’re Going to Accuse a Democratic Campaign of Election Theft, You Should Offer Some Evidence (Original post)
TomCADem Apr 2016 OP
RobertEarl Apr 2016 #1
haikugal Apr 2016 #2
TomCADem Apr 2016 #10
haikugal Apr 2016 #17
TomCADem Apr 2016 #6
dchill Apr 2016 #16
haikugal Apr 2016 #18
Trenzalore Apr 2016 #3
haikugal Apr 2016 #19
Trenzalore Apr 2016 #21
haikugal Apr 2016 #22
LineReply k
riversedge Apr 2016 #4
Hoyt Apr 2016 #5
NWCorona Apr 2016 #7
stillwaiting Apr 2016 #8
TomCADem Apr 2016 #11
stillwaiting Apr 2016 #13
Agnosticsherbet Apr 2016 #9
uponit7771 Apr 2016 #12
Bread and Circus Apr 2016 #14
Dem2 Apr 2016 #15
haikugal Apr 2016 #20

Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:08 AM

1. Nice head in sand approach

 

Lacking historical bearing and full of denial. Hardly befitting of DU.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:09 AM

2. +1,000

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Response to haikugal (Reply #2)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:17 AM

10. How Is Your Post Not A Slam Against Bernie?

If I had evidence that the vote was being stolen, but Bernie was happily letting the election get stolen even though he has gobs of campaign money on hand, I would be just as upset at Bernie for not doing something about it.

Conversely, if there was no evidence that an election was being stolen, then I can understand why Bernie would at best make generalized references to the need to fix election irregularities.

Think about it. You are arguing that there is election fraud, and that Bernie is just sitting on his hands, which is BS. Look at the Trump campaign complaining about Cruz's tactics. Trump does have a point that Cruz is manipulating delegate selection rules to select his delegates even in States that Trump won, and Trump is complaining about it.

If Bernie had similar evidence, then he would be all of it.

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Response to TomCADem (Reply #10)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:09 PM

17. Because the litigation proceeds from the voters of that state and their authorities.

Bernie has phone numbers available during the voting to provide information...help when needed.

Bernie needs to concentrate on what he's doing, which is HUGE as it is. The rest of us need to step up it's our election being defrauded. If you think we have democracy and honest elections in this country you've had your head in the neither regions for 16+ years.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:12 AM

6. Then Isn't It On Bernie For Not Litigating The Issue?

Bernie has the resources and the motivation. If there was evidence, then Bernie would be all over it. If you are argue that this is a head in the sands approach, how is that not a slam against Bernie?

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Response to TomCADem (Reply #6)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:39 AM

16. If he did that, I'm thinking you'd be one of the first to say...

Sore Loserman.

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Response to dchill (Reply #16)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:11 PM

18. Precisely. Anything to dampen the momentum and muddy the waters.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:11 AM

3. There is an inability by the Sanders supporters to accept a loss when they lose.

It really is sad and shows a lack of political maturity.

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Response to Trenzalore (Reply #3)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:13 PM

19. When and if we have a loss we'll deal with it..save your concern. You, however have what's

commonly understood to be an AstroTurf candidate.

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Response to haikugal (Reply #19)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:15 PM

21. Every time Sanders wins a state it is a noble triumph

Every time he loses she was cheating.

After Tuesday Hillary may crack +300. I can't wait for the narrative than.

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Response to Trenzalore (Reply #21)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:19 PM

22. When there is obvious tampering it should be called out by all citizens. The fact that Hillary

Supporters are ok with it says volumes. You have to live with yourself..me I'll fight for our democracy and acknowledge when it is being subverted. Get over it.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:11 AM

4. k

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:12 AM

5. Excuses are many - poor don't vote, registrars identified Sanders supporters removed them from rolls

Sanders votes were converted to Clinton, media didn't give him any attention, Clinton lies, some folks can't dream, voting rules are unfair even if they've been in place for decades, people won't accept GOPers are suddenly going to go along with Sanders' proposals, Party officials are against Sanders, and similar junk.

I think his supporters thought they could whine their way to the nomination.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:14 AM

7. Enough said

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:14 AM

8. I can't help but laugh at the denial.

Our voting systems are completely not trustworthy in many, many places in this country thanks to Dubya (and no thanks to the Dems who did not correct the problem when they had power).

To be clear, I would be arguing for major election and voting system reforms even if Bernie were winning and ultimately won the nomination because our computerized voting machines are easily hacked. Proven many times. Proven.

Why aren't you helping us reform our voting system?

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Response to stillwaiting (Reply #8)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:21 AM

11. Absolutely. Voter Suppression, Closure of Polling Sites Are REAL

However, the wild arguments that somehow there is someone who is actually manipulating the voting tabulations are off base unless there is actual evidence that this is occurring. Put another way, there is real evidence of: Restrictive Voter ID Laws and closure of polling sites, which are designed to SUPPRESS THE VOTE.

Arguing that the votes themselves do not matter merely advances the goal of suppressing the vote.

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Response to TomCADem (Reply #11)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:27 AM

13. Have you not seen the massive discrepancies between exit polling and official results?

Exit polling is still used to monitor other countries elections to detect election fraud. It is statistically hugely improbable that all of these exit polls would be off to the extent they have been this primary season and that all but one official result would significantly favor HRC.

Exit polls were reliable in this country until Dubya's HAVA installed EASILY hackable voting machines all over this country. Until they are removed our results simply don't have any legitimacy in many places throughout this country. No matter who wins.

Come on.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:15 AM

9. It is easier to blame someone else than take responsibility for one's failures.

Conservative Southerners should not decide our candidate, Cheating, The poor did not vote, and The DNC is unfair are excuses for Sanders failure to win the support of a majority of Democrats in the Democratic Primary.

Sanders loss of the primary, and he has lost it, is Sanders fault.

He did not craft a message to appeal to the broad spectrum of Democrats.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:23 AM

12. The Podium Bird is enough evidence for them

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:28 AM

14. Just Democratic Campaigns? Do they have some kind of magical legal immunity or force field to ward..

...off criticism?

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 11:34 AM

15. It's a shame I can only recommend this once

The first response is typical of the kind of flippant response you will get to using reason and factual information to make an argument.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:15 PM

20. Wonderbread...

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