2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumClinton supporters are being disgusting re Monica Lewinsky
To call her the "other woman" and to say "She approached him" is a disgusting coverup of the mechanics of sexual harassment in the workplace.
Their lack of principles, or rather your willingness to jettison them when convenient is exactly what they have in common with their candidate, Hillary Clinton.
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dsc
(52,157 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)It's the very definition of abuse for him to start having sex with the White House interns.
President Obama would never do such a thing. And if he did he would never get away with it.
It's hilarious watching liberals trip all over themselves defending it.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It must be harassment?
Quit oversimplifying. And it has nothing to do with Hillary!
Orsino
(37,428 posts)We can't say whether the affair was 100% consensual or not, but for a boss --the boss--to engage with an intern in that way was 100% inappropriate.
I don't know that harassment played a part.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Oh, and making Monica out to be a stalker... that wasnt creating a hostile workplace? Gimme a break!
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)and deserved more compassion than she received.
treestar
(82,383 posts)What wife doesn't criticize or shame the woman her husband cheats with? Monica was not victimized; she did what she wanted to do.
This is a big fail as far as gaining support for Bernie is concerned.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Her "stand-ins" most certainly did... shame on them.
rock
(13,218 posts)Monica herself never claimed harassment by Bill, never even hinted at it. My conclusion: no harassment. Duh.
arikara
(5,562 posts)Look what happened to Anita Hill when she did. More humiliation and bullying for her, and the perpetrator gets a big ol' promotion.
I speak from experience of those times, I encountered workplace harassment and would never have dreamed of reporting it then, nor would I even necessarily have recognized it for what it was. It was so pervasive in some places that it was an uncomfortable part of the job to be dealt with. But no matter what way you look at it, any sort of "affair" between a older person in the position of power, and a young intern should be considered workplace harassment.
The onus is on the married older person in the position of power to keep their pecker in their pants.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)these are her words about his autobiography, "My Life", published in 2004
He could have made it right with the book, but he hasn't. He is a revisionist of history. He has lied. […] I really didn't expect him to go into detail about our relationship. […] But if he had and he'd done it honestly, I wouldn't have minded. […] I did, though, at least expect him to correct the false statements he made when he was trying to protect the Presidency. Instead, he talked about it as though I had laid it all out there for the taking. I was the buffet and he just couldn't resist the dessert. […] This was a mutual relationship, mutual on all levels, right from the way it started and all the way through. […] I don't accept that he had to completely desecrate my character.
From her own words, she accepts responsibility for participating, but she did not pursue him, or approach him with an affair in mind. He is a womanizer and thinks he's god's gift to women, and probably flirts with every cute thing in a skirt he sees. She flirted back, and that is how this started. But he was just as much a participant in it as she was, and he was the initiator.
If anyone believes Clinton's version of events, I think it is you who is naive and gullible. If you want to hear it in Monica's words, the first time she got to answer questions when she was no longer bound by her immunity agreement, she freely answers questions about the relationship. She said it started with him flirting with her (eyes only) and she flirted back. Then one day she was walking down the hall and looked into the open door of George Stephanopoulos' office and Clinton was standing inside. He motioned her into the office and they started talking and she could tell there was a mutual attraction, and blurted out "I have a crush on you", and he smiled and said "well, you want to come into the back office?"
So basically, he made the first move, not her. You all may want to watch Monica in Black and white. It's on youtube.
Blue Meany
(1,947 posts)
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)This kind of stuff should be beneath anyone who'd call themselves a Democrat. It disgusts me when Bernie supporters lob that kind of crap at Hillary, and I'm very much equally appalled at any Hillary supporter that would lob that kind of crap at Jane.
Some of those I question if they are actually Hillary supporters (just like I question some of the ones who call themselves Bernie supporters that lob sexist crap at Hillary).
I mean really.. look at this one from the list:
https://twitter.com/HillarySuxNutz?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Just with the name "hillarySuxNutz", and then engages in EXTREMELY disgusting dialog down the board.
First, the person tries to portray himself/herself as Hillary and then posts stuff like:
"Chelsea just spilled BBQ sauce on my favorite pantsuit! The horror! Lucky she just gave me grandchild, otherwise would be silent treatment!"
"Instead of whining about shame, harlot Monica Lewinsky should crawl back into whatever dank hole she came from and stop the self-promotion."
"Damn it feels good to be a gangsta!"
"Let's just hit back: The REAL #DemocraticWhores are Elizabeth Warren, Tulsi Gabbard, Nina Turner, and of course, "butterface" Jane Sanders."
I won't go as far to say this is Bernie Supporter manufactured crap, BUT it's pretty darn apparent this person is NOT a genuine Hillary supporter.
gabeana
(3,166 posts)Lewinsky, man they are off the hinges, I guess they are only feminist when it serves their purpose
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... about Bernie's campaign bringing up Lewinsky?
She had a liaison with Bill, and he's not the one who is running.
Did HRC's camp say something about Monica that required a response? Did they say anything at all about Monica, no less something that prompted the Bernie camp to come to her defense?
When a campaign starts dredging up tabloid-type shit like this, it's an acknowledgment that they've lost - and now just want to get in some nasty digs before leaving the stage.
gabeana
(3,166 posts)don't play coy, Hillary and her supporters hasve been playing the feminist card since the beginning
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/10/hillary_clinton_is_smearing_bernie_sanders_as_a_sexist_it_s_an_insult_to.html
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... Bernie abandoning his first wife, and then having a child with another woman who was not his wife? No, and she wouldn't - because she has class.
Whether you think HRC "played the feminist card" or not has nothing to do with dredging up Bill's liaison with Monica. Nothing.
It's ironic how low Bernie "I want to run on the issues" Sanders is now stooping these days - especially knowing, as he must by now, that he isn't going to win the nomination no matter what he does. He could have chosen to go out as a statesman - instead he's wallowing in the gutter.
gabeana
(3,166 posts)Hillary has class lol, staying in 2008 because Obama might get assassinated, lying about Coming under sniper fire, flipping on Guns, Honduras, pro fracking, there is so much more, only reason she is winning is because of low--information voters, yes if you think Hillary is a Liberal/progressive you are a low info voter, the have spent their careers exploiting the low info voters
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)You tell me to "stay focus(ed)" while completely NOT focusing on the topic of the OP - which is about the Bernie camp using Bill's liaison with Monica to demean HRC.
Look, don't even bother responding. I'm not interested in people who (a) can't stay on topic, and (b) think dredging up tabloid-style sex scandal tales about a candidate's spouse is anything more than wallowing in the sewer.
Funny how Bernie "I just want to talk about the issues" Sanders is so willing to talk about his opponent's spouse's sex life when he thinks it might get him a few more votes.
Guess what? It won't.
I don't understand what BS thinks he has to gain by this - but I fully understand the incredible desperation that has led up to it.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)a Feminist that is enough to evoke his behavior while President of the United States and his very bad behavior. If you don't want Bill's behavior brought to the fore then don't use him to help the campaign.
Pretty simple really......you want to use him - we get to use him to!
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)They only support feminists that fit their agenda.
Ya know, icons for Hillary.
Sounds like a bad garage band to me.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)She owns this topic now.
More power to her
Her Ted talk on bullying. ..
Any woman supporting her deserves our hearty, loud applause.
gabeana
(3,166 posts)attack her, blame Monica for making Bill drop his drawers in the Oval office
Response to gabeana (Reply #7)
gabeana This message was self-deleted by its author.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)gabeana
(3,166 posts)but he did use his position to take advantage of a young woman who was excited that the President of the United States, and Hillary blamed Monica
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)gabeana
(3,166 posts)SFnomad
(3,473 posts)gabeana
(3,166 posts)too bad you are not as clever as you think you are
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Response to SFnomad (Reply #49)
MichiganVote This message was self-deleted by its author.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)Let's see, running against Secretary Clinton = sexism. Pointing out the age and power dynamics were really screwed up between a boss and an intern is what? Overly sensitive?
That hussy knew exactly what she was doing, it was poor Bill who was the real victim here, right?
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)just another day dealing with BS cheerleaders.
moriah
(8,311 posts)I mean, I really don't know what went on -- there were books, people have said all sorts of things (I even accidentally got Bob J. Nash's unvarnished opinion when I bummed him a cig outside the Arkansas Super Tuesday victory party, not knowing who I was talking to -- who didn't deny at all that Bill had many girlfriends... in fact, said he knew them all) , but in the end, the person I would most likely want to believe, Monica herself, said that it was a fully consensual, on both sides, affair.
She said that in response to Bill's book because she felt he diminished his own role in the affair, but has never claimed she felt Bill took advantage of her to my knowledge in the starting of the affair... his bad behavior was more as it was wrapping up and after, and as far as I knew her beef is far more with the media and everyone who made her into a dirty joke than it ever was Hillary.
At what point does a young woman become responsible for their own sexual agency? Even in the face of a powerful person? Is every relationship between subordinate and higher up automatically unethical?
I did end up working directly for and with the guy I was having a relationship with once -- we were approached for the jobs while we were together, but because we'd kept our private lives private from the tech recruiters, they didn't know when they offered him the lead position and me the assistant lead. It wasn't a comfortable talk, because I didn't particularly like talking about my personal life, but we had to tell them there was a potential conflict of interest. They didn't care, and we tried to preserve our relationship by limiting work talk to commute time -- after that, no talk of work.
But that's nothing close to the same, truly -- in fact, since we originally had met on another assignment with me as his trainer and didn't enter into a romantic relationship (despite mutual interest) until that assignment ended, some could say *I* had been the higher up taking advantage of a subordinate, because we talked outside of work while I was training him.
The real significance is, as I agree with Monica, how women who choose to use their sexual agency are slutshamed.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)never ends well.
Well, it can end pretty delightful at first, but ultimately, bad idea.
When a man in ultimate power sticks his dick in the mouth of a subordinate that is wrong. To then bully and shame her to cover your own ass that is harassment.
P.S. Today we call a boss getting a blow job from a subordinate sexual harassment FOR JUST THIS REASON...the person in power has the ability to destroy the employee's life...which both Hillary and Bill did. What happened to him? NOTHING.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)"What happened to him? NOTHING?"
Were you in a coma during the Impeachment and Trial?
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)I watched with shame as my President, the one I voted for was proved to have lied on National TV about "I did not have sexual relations with THAT WOMAN" pointing finger and all. I watched and felt sad that the man I believed was a proven lie and cheat.
Frankly - I might not be so judgmental had he gone on TV and said "yeah she blew me - so what", but instead he choose to lie to all of us..and then went on to slut-shame the women that put his dick in her mouth....never thinking he would shame her.
He is worse than a cheater - he is a LIAR and if Hillary is going to use him to campaign for her then she is no Feminist...NOT even close.
I understand that power is makes strange bedfellows - but he made that bed and must now lie in it.
moriah
(8,311 posts)I was in the process of posting this video, with your quote from where it was said on national TV.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)It takes two to tango. She gets half the blame.
moriah
(8,311 posts)... "I don't mind if you screw other women, but just please keep it private and don't embarrass the country"....
Which we don't know, because people who are married are entitled to privacy and not every relationship in this country is monogamous....
Then would you feel blame is still somewhere on her, or on him?
I say neither, but instead the GOP, Linda Tripp (with friends like that, who needs enemies?), Starr's need for porn....
all american girl
(1,788 posts)Lies to her, humiliates her on the world stage and it's her fault. He doesn't have to take full responsibility for his own actions, because....unbelievable. Blame the woman for the man's affairs...
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)she becomes unemployable.
He was in the position of power and influence. She was very young and impressionable, if not star struck by him. It was his responsibility being in that role to put the shoe fly out, and if she did make the advancement, to have her removed immediately. If he wanted a woman on the side, and it was okay with his wife, that other woman shouldn't have been a WH Staffer!
What he went on to do was not only a national embarrassment to us, but his lies and actions destroyed her life while he went on to profit greatly in life. Using his position of power, as a means to gain sexual favor is wrong. The optimal word here wasn't defining what meaning of what "is" is, it's just understanding and knowing when to say NO!
All those sexist pigs in the workplace trying to justify sleeping with interns... the word you are looking for is, "NO"!
all american girl
(1,788 posts)She was lied to and humiliated by him. He did. HE is responsible, not the women. And yes, I agree he took advantage of a woman, Monica. I also he took advantage of his wife and that has nothing to do with her or her running for president.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)So much with her being "unemployable."
And Bill's and Monica's actions were not Hillary's fault. They both wronged her -- she wasn't "okay" with it. It's grossly sexist to hold a wife responsible for her husband's cheating.
http://www.bustle.com/articles/128632-where-is-monica-lewinsky-now-shes-a-powerful-force-against-online-bullying-has-reclaimed-the
https://www.allamericanspeakers.com/booking-request.php?SpName=Monica-Lewinsky
http://www.londonspeakerbureau.com/uk/?gclid=CKyWk-DjpswCFVKVfgodYwcKJw
http://www.celebrityspeakersbureau.com/talent/monica-lewinsky/
http://www.onbeing.org/blog/monica-lewinskys-second-act-and-being-authors-of-our-own-public-narratives/7405
all american girl
(1,788 posts)
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Monica talking about her sex with Bill; and her own lack of adult judgment, at the age of 24, for blabbing away to anyone who couldn't be trusted.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)What she has endured has been horrific. These are the things (extreme bullying) that we now have to teach Jr High students against, and be on the watch for in schools.
Suicides have increased 24% since 1999, not sure if you were aware of that - but the data was just released this week. The sharpest rise was seen in ages 10-14, specifically in girls (25-44 remains the 2nd highest). in 2014 alone, there were over 400 suicides in this age group. Often times these kids are dealing with real world issues like mental health, depression, lacking self confidence, substance abuse - and direct or indirect (cyber) bullying can be a trigger. When they're eager lacking in self worth, and respond to attention - then get shoved away in cruel ways, it's recipe for disaster.
If you truly read that article with eyes wide open, then you would understand the dangerous situation. I'm incredibly proud of Monica for having the strength and courage to speak out about her life growing up, coming of age - owning her responsibility, but also trying to recover from the actions of others that were unnecessarily cruel from all ends.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db241.htm
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)And the person who brought all of this on Monica was Linda Tripp, whom Monica thoughtlessly shared her story with.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)pnwmom
(108,977 posts)And the only real victim in this situation was Hillary.
Monica has said repeatedly that she does not consider herself a "victim" insofar as her consensual sexual relationship is concerned.
She felt she was bullied afterwards. And that was brought on by her confiding in Linda Tripp, who secretly tape recorded their conversations.
2banon
(7,321 posts)her. Really, incredibly impressed. Her story is powerful and my hat off to her for her forthright honesty and courage. Amazing young Woman.
artislife
(9,497 posts)I think she has lousy taste in men, but this has haunted Monica her entire adult life. First thing anyone thinks of.
That's because of slut shaming. First thing people think of Bill varies.
Yet..
He was the one who was married.
But Monica is beautiful and it ended up being too much for him to be a faithful husband. I can understand why he strayed again and again. I don't admire him for it, though.
Unicorn
(424 posts)Go Monica.
Unicorn
(424 posts)840high
(17,196 posts) Response to Bonobo (Original post)
MichiganVote This message was self-deleted by its author.
The guy with the uncontrollable dick wants back into the White House.
Probably more than his wife does.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)Bill Clinton doesn't want back in the White House?
Uh, OK. Go with that.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)Autumn
(45,057 posts)
Petrushka
(3,709 posts)
bvf
(6,604 posts)I bet I can name a presidential candidate who feels likewise.
all american girl
(1,788 posts)She's running for office not him. Why is this so hard to understand.
gabeana
(3,166 posts)and you know it, don't be dense, would she have been senator of NY is she didn't was not the first lady?
She talks about her husband administration as her experience
all american girl
(1,788 posts)It's not like she was in a society that required women to put their careers aside so their husbands could move on up. The only thing, she didn't. I'm old enough to remember her line about not sitting home making cookies and having tea, and how everyone lost their collective minds...which I thought was stupid. But hey, she only got this far because of her husband, because I'm dense. OK
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)But anyone who doesn't realize it's a 2-for-1 (just like it was in '92) is fooling themselves.
Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #19)
MichiganVote This message was self-deleted by its author.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Some folk take a bit longer than others...
Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #31)
Post removed
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Princess Weathervane and Blowjob Bill: your basic Third Way two-fer!
Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #42)
MichiganVote This message was self-deleted by its author.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)On Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:28 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Enjoy your hide?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1821356
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I'm excluded from this post so that this poster can bait others, me? Ok. By all means, resemble the very crappy gov't we have. And this would be why this site has become such an internet joke on the web.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:35 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
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LEAVE it.
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Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)As opposed to an internet joke in the newspaper, one assumes...
angstlessk
(11,862 posts)You're funny. Comedy while cleaning floors or is this your day job? Do you even work? Ever?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1821266
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Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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vintx
(1,748 posts)Are you denigrating people who clean for a living?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Mean and full of contempt for domestic labor.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)
You don't think his antics won't be fodder during Hillary’s term?
He's already been documented as riding Bill Epstein's Lolita Express private jet whose notorious for keeping it stocked with underaged sex slaves.
Are you willing to go another 4 years trying to pretzel twist the meaning of "is'?
Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #20)
MichiganVote This message was self-deleted by its author.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #20)
MichiganVote This message was self-deleted by its author.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I've heard of that as a valid choice. So we would think progressives would support that
treestar
(82,383 posts)The 19th century called too. It wants its morals back
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Or his rape of Juanita Broadrrick or his sexual harassment of numerous women.
That's not 19th century morals, that's disgust at his misogyny and contempt for women.
But hey, obviously no biggie to you that we're gearing up for a repeat performance.
Personally I'm done.
treestar
(82,383 posts)In our system, we don't do that
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)In my system I believe the victims. Rape, sexual assault, and workplace sexual harassment accusations don't come with any upsides so yeah, I take the side of the women.
But go you.
I'm fucking done defending Bill Clinton's transgressions. You Hillary supporters will obviously defend even the indefensible - not too many Americans think Bill Clinton is a chaste faithful husband.
So glad I'm done with that shit.
treestar
(82,383 posts)presumed innocent. How horrible that you would convict any accused on the accusation alone. That's not what America is.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)and thus he is open for discussion as is her decision to use him to get herself elected.
Sadly he made the bed and now must lie in it....(did you catch the pun - lie in it)
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)I'm a feminist who doesn't want the Sexual Harasser in Chief to return to the White House in any capacity.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)lol they have gone lower than that. That treatment is almost civil compared to some of the other tactics they have used. At least this tactic is like saying "She had her own agency and she knew what she wanted" why it's almost empowering in that way. Except they completely ignore what it's actually like to be in your early twenties and be star struck. It can only be worse if you are star struck by someone who is the President I think.
You know what I am gonna get real mad if I think this all the way through. Because yes this is mild and it's completely horrid. Which makes all the other stuff very very horrid and terrible. This should be a low point. But, it's not.
If Bill was a RepubliCON they would demand his head on a silver platter, so really that says where their morals are.
Autumn
(45,057 posts)moriah
(8,311 posts)I am curious, because that's how I HAVE always seen the issue, even years ago.
In her own autobiography she discussed a far worse time when I think that guy took far more advantage -- Andy Bieler. She was far younger, he had a far greater opportunity to groom her for the affair, etc. It was on the bare edge of even being legal. If it hadn't been for him, it's unlikely Monica would have been nearly as vulnerable to further attempts by married men to use her for sex, and probably would have had the self-esteem to not fall for the man she did after Bieler.
I have always believed when it comes to minors that it doesn't matter if the younger party dances around and begs, it's the adult's responsibility to say no. I agree that Bill, as the married man and the President, should also have said no.
But I also can't say that a twenty-something woman who had a five year affair with a married man once before is the same as the teenager acting out prior abuse or trying to feel like a grownup. She herself has not accused Bill, to my knowledge, of pressuring her, threatening her job if she didn't fool around with him, or of otherwise using his position to coerce her into giving up her agency.
I am glad that she has overcome the horrific slut-shaming she was exposed to, and it wasn't right of the Clintons to participate in that in any way. She rightfully said that the affair was mutual in response to Bill's attempt to disown it in his book. But I also feel like people suggesting that her agency was taken simply because he was the President are going the reverse route -- just because she did fall in love with the wrong man and act on those feelings doesn't mean she was a slut, but the opposite of "slut" should not automatically be "victim".
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)My issue was the abuse of power. As for all other aspects, Hillary seemes to have moved on, so have I. I believe Lewinsky to be a victim and have no interest in talking about her in a negative manner.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)last ditch effort.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)posters well, you can't control them.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)It's not just people on Reddit.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1820432
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)if introducers count than I am glad to kn ow Hillary thinks I am going to hell and that I am boy crazy. She never disavowed any of those statements.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)the thing under control. Especially after the "corporate whore" thing.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)I have made bad judgements when I was young. not many of them, but a few.
She was not an other woman though, I always thought that phrase is for a single paramour who is emotionally involved. I do not believe either of them were.
PufPuf23
(8,767 posts)Lewinsky would have had a substantial civil suit as well.
Hillary Clinton was less than a stalwart feminist regards to protecting her husband and condemning Lewinsky.
I share your disgust regards as to who lacks principles and the repeated pattern exhibited by Hillary Clinton.
TheBlackAdder
(28,183 posts).
http://www.state.gov/m/ds/clearances/60321.htm
Sexual Behavior
12. The Concern. Sexual behavior that involves a criminal offense, indicates a personality or emotional disorder, reflects lack of judgment or discretion, or which may subject the individual to undue influence or coercion, exploitation, or duress can raise questions about an individual's reliability, trustworthiness and ability to protect classified information. No adverse inference concerning the standards in the Guideline may be raised solely on the basis of the sexual orientation of the individual.
13. Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include:
(a) sexual behavior of a criminal nature, whether or not the individual has been prosecuted;
(b) a pattern of compulsive, self-destructive, or high-risk sexual behavior that the person is unable to stop or that may be symptomatic of a personality disorder;
(c) sexual behavior that causes an individual to be vulnerable to coercion, exploitation, or duress;
(d) sexual behavior of a public nature and/or that which reflects lack of discretion or judgment.
vintx
(1,748 posts)And they do have a point.
TheBlackAdder
(28,183 posts).
The voices of countless Dems were never heard.
.
vintx
(1,748 posts)said it was just a lot of nonsense, that all presidents do it, etc etc etc.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)What a steaming load of shit that is.
Fairgo
(1,571 posts)He has a history of sex acts based on leveraged power. He escalated all the way to depravity in the oval office.
What kind of mind thinks this serial misogyny is a good idea? What kind of spousal mind defends this behaviour and tries to destroy the victims? What kind of mind does all that and then has the brass to wrap themselves in a feminist flag? That last part is actually the most telling. And scary.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)And worse crimes were committed than sexual harassment, yet anyone who has a
problem with their long history of sleaze and wrong-doing gets their name
put on an "enemies list." What a charming couple. 
jillan
(39,451 posts)
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)this is not a feminist, women...this is the wife and protector of a sexual pervert with a history, who protected him every way she could to keep herself in the house of power, be it governor's wife or FLOTUS. And yes, he has a history going back to his governorship.
Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #28)
MichiganVote This message was self-deleted by its author.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)And you ruin that young woman's life, Yes, you are messing with sexual harrassment, and you are a pervert.
The really surprising part about this is that it is Hillary who is supposed to be for feminists, and yet she will (and has) beaten down any woman who would charge her husband with a crime.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)I'm a pervert? 
love it. Back to the crazeeeeey righties you need to go darling.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Except if Hillary gets the nom.
Then it is 
and 
time for those of us who don't faint at their feet.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)The only person the poster called a pervert were people in power that had sex with people not their spouse. If that is you than I guess if the shoe fits you have to wear it. Otherwise I think the poster was speaking about Bill Clinton.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Has no bearing on the 2016 race.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Tarc
(10,476 posts)and would have no desire to even open it should there be one in GDP. Old news.
treestar
(82,383 posts)To say women seek out sex. Calling that an insult is sexist.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)the other Clinton is using the Clinton who stuck his private bits into Ms. Lewinsky to help her get elected? Does that help you understand why we feel it has merit.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)As with any spouse of a candidate, they are gonig to be out campaigning for their partner, but Bill himself is not running for office. His past history is wholly irrelevant, and you and the Sanders crew dredging it up, channeling Newt Gingrich in the process, smacks of pathetic desperation.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)You think I give a shit if you think it is "too fucking bad"? I have morals and can see what is WRONG and President Clinton WAS wrong.
And Hillary is NO feminist. She is a woman enthralled with power and willing to take whatever crap the powerful man dishes out.
Hillary has him out defending her and standing for her and he is a CHEAT and a LIE.
Newt Gingrich is a dog and liar too...cheating on his wives just like Bill...
And Bill set himself up for it too..had he told the truth to the country that yeah she blew him and HE LIKED IT...no one could have done shit to him...but he would rather lie on NATIONAL TV and then shame the women who gave him the blow job...sad sad man and sadder still any woman that would stay with such a creature.
But like I have said POWER and MONEY make strange bedfellows when a woman has no self-pride. He made the bed and now he must lie in it...and if she continues to support him and let him REPRESENT her than she must lie in it as well.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Lol, no, the wife doesn't get blamed for the sins of the husband. That's some serious misogyny right there. 
zazen
(2,978 posts)And we feminists are rightly outraged that she claims to be a feminist after she has done so (not to mention the millions of poor women hurt by her pro-war, anti-welfare, pro-incarceration policies).
It is galling to the real feminist movement that is working on behalf of hundreds of millions of impoverished, battered, sexually abused women here and around the world.
oasis
(49,376 posts)Lewinsky proudly proclaimed before embarking on her journey to Washington.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)oasis
(49,376 posts)on the back burner.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)oasis
(49,376 posts)
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)
zappaman
(20,606 posts)It's nice to see MRA's take up the issue of slut shaming.
Who knew they had it in them?
oasis
(49,376 posts) SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)SFnomad
(3,473 posts)But calling this sexual harassment is smearing Bill Clinton and it is a Republican talking point.
Response to SFnomad (Reply #84)
Post removed
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)SFnomad:
"Sexual harassment? ML snapper her thong at President Clinton and pursued him!!"
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)That you wrote that is a fact.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)and sexual harassment.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)When the President of the United States takes advantage of a 22-year old woman that he employs, it is not "consensual" and would widely be regarded as sexual harassment in the workplace.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)No analysis needed for that one.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)Period. There is no way to spin it.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)all american girl
(1,788 posts)Hillary? She didn't have the affair, in fact he lied to to her and humiliated her. Why blame her, and not just blame Bill for his own actions? I'm so pissed off right now I can't see straight. This is not what Liberals are about.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)What a pile of sexist crap, holding the wife responsible for her husband's cheating.
all american girl
(1,788 posts)It's unbelievable that we now blame the wives for husband being dicks....pnwmom, what happened to our liberal sanity?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)demonstration of their devotion to traditional Jesus based marriage. She and her adulterous husband attacked LGBT in 'defense' of their own not so honest, not so loyal something like a marriage relationship, 'One man, one woman' she'd say for the next few decades, always leaving out the fact that was lots of women, she'd carry on as if LGBT made Bill do those things.
If they had not played that nasty smokescreen of DOMA they could do the 'don't judge us' bit and I'd support that. But 'don't judge us, judge those gays instead' is bullshit hatefulness.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)I've wanted Bill to go away since 1998 or so -- I wished he would resign and let Al Gore take over.
As a feminist, I do NOT want Bill back in the White House in any capacity. I DO blame Bill for his own actions. Many moons ago, I walked a mile in Paula Jones's boots.
I take sexual harassment seriously, I want young women to have it better than I did in the workplace. To elevate Bill Clinton to First Gentleman is to say that sexual harassment is not important, that liberals don't really mean it when they talk about hostile workplace environments.
This is only one reason I'm a feminist for Bernie, but it's a strong, visceral, bedrock conviction for me.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Surely the legal definition requires more proof than just that.
If I ended up marrying my boss would it still be harassment.
MFM008
(19,805 posts)in a situation like this.
you have to examine your motives.
You are not innocent in such things.
Im sick of her, I dont care that she did it,
Its 20 year old crap and it has no bearing on HRCs
being able to run the government.
Uncle Joe
(58,349 posts)Thanks for the thread, Bonobo.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Same RW crap here as on any RW site.
Monica Lewinsky????? The 90s are calling. What's next? Vince Foster didn't kill himself?
P.S. Bill is not running for president. Wives are not an appendage of their husband and are not responsible for their behavior.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)
eridani
(51,907 posts)
Two powerful foes secretly plot to reform Social Security and Medicare.
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2008/05/29/the-pact-between-bill-clinton-and-newt-gingrich
eridani
(51,907 posts)Response to Bonobo (Original post)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
all american girl
(1,788 posts)I thought this would be about how Bernie supporters think it's OK to slime Hillary for Bill having an affair. Acting like Hillary is responsible for a grown man's actions. That a woman, who nothing to do with any of this, gets blamed and smeared, because we know it"s always the wife's fault.
Spare me. Monica and Bill were grown ups and it was never our business. I said that then and stick by it. The fact that Bernie supporters don't think it's bad form to bring this shit up (or just mention her...because...*wink wink*) I think says more about you all.
Zynx
(21,328 posts)
Vinca
(50,267 posts)And probably a whole lot worse.
Sky Masterson
(5,240 posts)How could she do such a diabolical thing to President Clinton!!!!!
Poor innocent Bill Clinton!!! How could a young intern turn this great flawless man toward the Blue dress side?
I was a Billie Bro I guess.
I now look at my views back then and realize that I OWE Mrs. Lewinsky an apology.
She was enamored by Bill. How could she not? He was powerful,charming,inspirational and she was young.
He also had a Penis and he believed the same things about himself that Monica did.
This election opened my eyes to the Clintons even more than 08 did.
Bringing up Monica as an example of Clinton Bullying is not only the right use of it, but factual.
The Clintons know one thing very well. And that is how to crush someone.
Monica was Slut shamed and I shamed her as well.
For this I am sorry beyond words.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)Yes they certainly do. I don't know how that young woman came back from all the hate
and sleaze that was done to her. First that disgusting Linda Tripp taping what she assumed
were private conversations. Getting grilled in a room full of FBI agents who we all know
were thinking about one thing the whole time, then being slut-shamed by her former
lover and his wife while the eyes of the whole nation were upon her!! Whew. I can
only say I couldn't have handled that at 22 yrs old.
Good for you for seeing the light. The whole nation was being invited to jump on the
shaming bandwagon so you didn't do anything millions of others were being encocuraged
to do. At least you saw the light. The HRC supporters here still want to pile on Monica
just because she's speaking out against bullying. Who else has had it like she has?
dr60omg
(283 posts)She was a college intern about the same age as his daughter. As long as Hillary says 2 for 1. As long as she helped smear Lewinsky's name making her life an impossible hell. She did not want to come forward. And, in reality she was not the only woman.
And what about the whole rape victims sexual harassment sexual attack victims should be taken seriously ... when a preacher, a teacher, a boss, or a political leader uses their power over someone that is the sort of power relationship that is unconscionable.
Since Clinton made such a big deal about believing all women who were sexual abused attacked etc I think it is incumbent on her to live by her words which her deeds have never shown even in Arkansas
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)so what is with all the huffing poutrage from the camp?
The Republicans have been prepping to run against Clinton since 2008. It is going to be a shit show. Monica is the least of their problems.
greiner3
(5,214 posts)The bible blames Lot's poor old daughters for seducing HIM yes,as the male rape apologizers would say "they were just begging for it". And as such, damn so-called feminists who now blame the women for being sluts FUCK EM AS I SAY. Notice I have not said anything about DU members so (fill in the blank) it backwards 
George II
(67,782 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Insisting that a female over the age of majority can not have agency
Monica herself never made this claim!
Autumn
(45,057 posts) jillan
(39,451 posts)an attorney.
She stayed, and let herself be humiliated in public.
And then she slut-shamed the other woman, forgetting that it takes two.
Personally, I have more respect for myself than that. It's not the cheating that is unforgivable.
It's the lying.
I would have more respect for her if she told him to F off & told him that she deserved better.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)What the hell business is it of yours if she made the choice to forgive her husband and work on her marriage?
Gothmog
(145,130 posts)This is a sleazy line of attack by Dawson and other Sanders surrogates
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)It was sex ...she was an intern if you remember back in the day, the interns did not even get paid...Bill was a philanderer and should certainly not done it...he paid a heavy price. But at the end of the day, it happened 30 years ago and was between him and Hillary. Those of you who bring such old shit up are truly helping the GOP and that makes me sick. WE have enough of that crap...look at what they have done to the president.
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)and she responded by lifting her skirt.
I am not saying she was innocent, but, for the love of heaven, neither was he. She was a 22 year old unmarried intern, "cigared" by a 50 something year old married POTUS, almost as though her vagina were an ashtray. She was clearly not the villain of the piece. And it certainly was not his only transgression.
It's singular that people who hurl accusations of "sexism" at the drop of a decibel portray Bubba as a victim, or even claim that the parties were on equal footing.
The Lewinsky scandal was an American political sex scandal in 1998, referring to a sexual relationship between 49-year-old President Bill Clinton and a 22-year-old White House employee, Monica Lewinsky. During a televised speech, Clinton ended with the statement that he did not have sexual relations with Lewinsky. Further investigation led to charges of perjury and led to the impeachment of President Clinton in 1998 by the U.S. House of Representatives and his subsequent acquittal on all impeachment charges of perjury and obstruction of justice in a 21-day Senate trial.[1]
President Clinton was held in civil contempt of court by Judge Susan Webber Wright.[2] His license to practice law was suspended in Arkansas and later by the United States Supreme Court.[3] He was also fined $90,000 for giving false testimony in the separate Paula Jones case.[4]
In 1995, Lewinsky, a graduate of Lewis & Clark College, was hired to work as an intern at the White House during Clinton's first term, and was later an employee of the White House Office of Legislative Affairs. While working at the White House she began a personal relationship with Clinton, the details of which she later confided to her friend and Defense Department co-worker Linda Tripp, who secretly recorded their telephone conversations.[5]
When Tripp discovered in January 1998 that Lewinsky had sworn an affidavit in the Paula Jones case denying a relationship with Clinton, she delivered the tapes to Kenneth Starr, the Independent Counsel who was investigating Clinton on other matters, including the Whitewater scandal, the White House FBI files controversy, and the White House travel office controversy. During the grand jury testimony Clinton's responses were carefully worded, and he argued, "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is,"[6] in regards to the truthfulness of his statement that "there is not a sexual relationship, an improper sexual relationship or any other kind of improper relationship."[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewinsky_scandal
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)The Bernie campaign is really getting into the gutter now, isn't it? Using the Lewinsky scandal against the woman who was the victim of her philandering husband and a young woman who should have known better? Bill and Monica were the culprits here. Yes, Hillary said less than nice things about Monica afterwards. Is there really anyone who wants to blame her for that? If my husband were to sleep with some young girl, I sure as hell would lash out, and I'm not going to go around playing sisterhood with her. Bill was a skunk and his behavior was awful. Monica was a young woman and he should not have targeted her, but she knew what she was doing, by her own admission. Their bad choices humiliated Hillary back then. Why should it be used against Hillary now? What are we on this site, Republicans?! They are the ones who would try to shame Hillary for this. Why do Bernie folks?
