HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » Upshot from last night: I...

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:00 AM

 

Upshot from last night: Independent FAIL

Who knew that leaving a Party you've grown disenchanted with, or never joining it in the first place because it mimics the Republican Party in many ways, would only increase the relative strength of the establishment? In other words, those out of the party whose intent was to send the Party a message kind of sealed their fate and ensured they're stuck with the lesser of two evils. This primary has been very enlightening, mostly for the wrong reasons, and no one should expect anything to change. At this time, I look forward to seeing how Bernie's movement impacts the Democratic Party platform (or will it at all), and who Hillary picks as her running mate; will (s)he be a Progressives all Democrats can be proud of, or a "Progressive" only the establishment can be proud of. There are many good reasons for Bernie to fight on, most important IMO, the lasting impact he's had on the Party. Do I think he'll have made a lasting impact? No. But I'll reevaluate when I see who she picks as advisors and cabinet members. More of the same Wall Street like Clinton 42 and Obama? Most likely; why should we expect otherwise? But for some reason, she got a ton of Labor endorsements. Will she have a pro-Labor cabinet? Obama sure kicked Labor to the curb. So, more of the same...?

30 replies, 1002 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 30 replies Author Time Post
Reply Upshot from last night: Independent FAIL (Original post)
WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2016 OP
azurnoir Apr 2016 #1
Adrahil Apr 2016 #2
azurnoir Apr 2016 #3
Duckhunter935 Apr 2016 #8
Adrahil Apr 2016 #20
WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2016 #19
Adrahil Apr 2016 #22
WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2016 #23
Adrahil Apr 2016 #25
WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2016 #5
azurnoir Apr 2016 #12
DrDan Apr 2016 #9
azurnoir Apr 2016 #10
DrDan Apr 2016 #13
azurnoir Apr 2016 #16
WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2016 #17
LoverOfLiberty Apr 2016 #28
GoldenThunder Apr 2016 #4
WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2016 #11
GoldenThunder Apr 2016 #18
WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2016 #21
COLGATE4 Apr 2016 #29
HereSince1628 Apr 2016 #6
WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2016 #14
Duckhunter935 Apr 2016 #7
WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2016 #15
IamMab Apr 2016 #27
ThePhilosopher04 Apr 2016 #24
IamMab Apr 2016 #26
HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #30

Response to WhaTHellsgoingonhere (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:03 AM

1. Indi's were not allowed to vote but they will be in the GE, Hillary had a trout farm victory

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to azurnoir (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:11 AM

2. Gawd forbid that Democrats select the Democratic nominee. NT

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Adrahil (Reply #2)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:13 AM

3. seems Hillary's fans might fear open voter participation - interesting that

makes one wonder what's planned for the GE

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to azurnoir (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:21 AM

8. Yep, very true

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to azurnoir (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:00 AM

20. Well, here's the thing.....

 

I think a party ought to be able to pick its nominee. How could we call our nominee the PARTY'S candidate, if the the candidate in question failed to convince a majority of the party members to vote for him. Sanders has gotten clobbered among self-identified Democrats.

Actual Democrats like me who donate time and money to advance the party locally, at the the state level and nationally should be the ones determining who carries the party banner in November. If independents want a say, I suggest they join the party and work to change it by participating in it. Volunteers. Run for office even. But demanding that the party conform to their wishes when they have no skin in the game? That's not fair.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Adrahil (Reply #2)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:53 AM

19. Funny how it works. People tell you over and over what the problem is: you're

 

the same as Rs. You continue to ignore them. They stop voting, drop out of the process all together, or register as Independent because the Democratic Party is serving its masters not "We the People." In short, as a Party, EPIC FAIL of colossal proportions. And yet, all this Fail makes your continue the Fail candidate stronger against outsiders. It's almost like the Democratic Party is daring an outsider to make a Third Party run.

God forbid the Democratic Party serves "We the People."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhaTHellsgoingonhere (Reply #19)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:02 AM

22. Yeah, I keep hearing people say that shit.....

 

... but I never see them at the local precinct meetings. I don't see them at City Council meetings. What I see is arm chair activists who don't want to actually commit to the party, but they sure as hell want to tell us who our Presidential candidate needs to be.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Adrahil (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:12 AM

23. What a FOS statement. Occupy and now Democracy Spring are engaging people the Democratic Party is

 

quite HAPPY to ignore. Bernie Sanders tapped into this and brought people into the process that have been ignored for years. I'm not sure where you live, but it sounds like a Podunk craphole.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhaTHellsgoingonhere (Reply #23)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:30 AM

25. Oh yes, very podunk. But we did have an occupy group here.

 

And none of them are active in the local party, which despite being a podunk craphole, has worked hard to improve our rust belt small city, and has met with some success.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to azurnoir (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:19 AM

5. You've more clearly identified the problem than I, apparently.

 

If your rage is against the establishment, you need to vote in the primary for the non-establishment candidate. Come GE, it's irrelevant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhaTHellsgoingonhere (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:28 AM

12. I did in my state where Bernie won quite handily but then again we have a tradition

of fair and honest elections here even when that fairness requires a recount, along with a host of liberals such as Paul Wellstone

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to azurnoir (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:22 AM

9. of course they were allowed to vote - all they had to do was make the effort to make sure they

were registered.

too much trouble, I guess

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DrDan (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:25 AM

10. 6 months ago registration closed last October

but then again NY was home to Tammany Hall wasn't it

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to azurnoir (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:31 AM

13. seems the Hillary supporters understood it - over 1M votes

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DrDan (Reply #13)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:36 AM

16. under the circumstances of NY laws Hillary's win is like catching a lunker at a trout farm

that's what the operation is designed for- doesn't help much though when you have to fish in a real stream

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DrDan (Reply #13)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:40 AM

17. Wow, 1 million votes from NY! Lol

 

I registered Democrat when I was 18, and again and again each time I moved. I haven't had to register in 20 years. I'm sure 990K of Hillary's supporters put as much thought into registering to vote as I.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to azurnoir (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:37 AM

28. No

Registration deadline was March 25, 2016. The October deadline was to change parties.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhaTHellsgoingonhere (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:18 AM

4. Bernie is the reason I became a state delegate this year.

I'm now neck deep in the Democratic party because of Senator Sanders. I've even had the opportunity to talk with a few super-delegates along the way. And those SDs are clearly aware that my support of Sanders with the party infrastructure is not limited to just myself. Not by a long shot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GoldenThunder (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:27 AM

11. You're smarter than many, many people. Registering Independent has grown in popularity

 

It seems like a knee-jerk reaction. I seriously doubt people did their due diligence when opting out or not joining in the first place.

Thanks for all that you do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhaTHellsgoingonhere (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:43 AM

18. The only way to get the Demacratic Party back to the people is...

...to physically reach into the slimy guts of the corporate monster that devoured it whole and pull it out. Time to break out the hazmat suits and heavy-duty rubber gloves. Our only choice is to get inside the beast.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GoldenThunder (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:01 AM

21. People don't know that. They think they can change it from the outside because they don't understand

 

the mechanics already in place. It's a machine.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GoldenThunder (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:46 AM

29. Are you by any chance enrolled in

"Creative Writing 101"?? 'physically reach into the slimy guts of the corporate monster...'. Next time, try beginning it with "It was a dark and stormy night...".
"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhaTHellsgoingonhere (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:20 AM

6. Who knew that a closed primary with a deadline for changing affiliation 6 months ahead

of an election, or stripping democratic affiliations from voter registrations would suppress independent participation?

Those rules aren't an accidents of nature.

This election cycle has been very informative about the democratic party and its methods.

I suspect that information will yield an even bigger Independent Fail in Nov.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:32 AM

14. Yeah, we did learn a lot about the sausage making. If you live in an open primary state, you just

 

aren't aware of how arcane and backwards other states are. That's not to say we didn't have shenanigans in Illinois, because ours was as polluted as many other states and, it was so close here, Hillary didn't even get 51% of the vote.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhaTHellsgoingonhere (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:21 AM

7. You need independents

 

To win the general, it would be nice not to insult and dismiss them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:35 AM

15. In hindsight, I think they'd rather vote for Bernie in the primary than Hillary in the GE

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:35 AM

27. You're not the only independents though.

 

So ease up on the hostage tactics, maybe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhaTHellsgoingonhere (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:21 AM

24. Time to make a clean break

 

The grass roots organization is there to form a new party or coalition and deny the establishment support. It must be done in order to affect any real change. Don't give me the Nader bullshit or Trump in the White House. If you vote for Hillary and don't want Trump, it's your own God Damn fault if he or some other low life Republican wins.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhaTHellsgoingonhere (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 08:34 AM

26. Exactly. There's ZERO logic behind "I won't vote for them to teach them a lesson."

 

The lesson you taught was that you're an unreliable voter that the party is better off not wasting time on because you can't be counted on to help out when it really matters. Voting is what sends a message.

Even the Sanders campaign isn't immune, as the "massive rallies" can't translate into votes more often than not. I think hipsters are just using Sanders for free social events, at this point. A place to show off their organic artisanal beards and distressed retro-post-modern skinny jeans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WhaTHellsgoingonhere (Original post)

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:18 AM

30. A closed primary only strengthens the establishment.

 

Independants who switched to Dem party to vote in primary had their affiliations screwed up by the Board of Elections. This made Camp Weathervane quite pleased, but it is utterly stupid to then count on those voters in Nov.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread