What does Bernie's race say to you about the Democratic Party?

[kentuck]

Does the Party need to change?

Or will it be forced to change?

Hillary is probably the strongest candidate the present Democratic establishment can find at this time. But Bernie Sanders is presenting a real challenge to the status quo.

What do you see in the future for the Democratic Party?

[Lizzie Poppet]

1. I've heard he prefers the New York Marathon.

But has also been known to enjoy the Indy 500, the Tour de France, and a good pennant race, too...

[Baobab]

7. I think that the Democratic party is facing a choice between corporatism and populism

the Democratic Party cannot serve two masters, as has been said.

If it tries to, its committing seppaku.

Ritual self-evisceration.

[Zira]

64. I think it already made it's choice. And that ritual will be coming sooner than later if they

nominate Kissinger.

[Silver_Witch]

76. Agreed!

here is hoping the party sees the light!

[snooper2]

106. NO NO NO! it is the tortoise and the hare!

[geek tragedy]

2. it's in a weird position--dominant nationally but weak locally due to turnout patterns.

also, we have a weak bench.

We've had strong protest candidates before--Gary Hart, Ted Kennedy, Eugene McCarthy--so the Sanders thing is nothing new.

The major difference for Sanders is that the other protest candidates were Democrats.

[Armstead]

13. Comparisons are apples and oranges

Gary Hart was very uncharismatic, and also got hoisted by hioe own petard by getting caught partying.

Kennedy was running against an incumbent Democratic President. He also had some personal baggage. (Chappaquidick)

The world was a different place when McCarthy ran.

Sanders represents a clear widespread vein of discontent with the Democratic Establishment. He may not have been a Democrat officially, but to many people -- including many Democrats -- that is a plus, and he represents liberal Democratic values more than Clinton.

[geek tragedy]

17. that vein of discontent was there in 2004 and 2008 too

2004 had a crowded field (Kerry, Dean, Gephardt, Edwards, Clark) with no establishment favorite and an fairly inept candidate representing the discontent ( Dean)

2008 featured a dominant representative of the establishment who ran up against a field all dedicated to taking her down, including a once-in-a-generation talent in Obama who figured out how to pick the lock on the establishment candidate.

in 2016 there was a huge vacuum--no credible challenger to the establishment candidate came from inside the party. So, a socialist jumped in who was not only trying to take down the establishment candidate, but who also hates the party itself.

[Armstead]

20. I agree with that...the discontent has been cumulatively building

[daleanime]

51. Sorry, did you say something?

[KPN]

53. I dunno about that. Weak locally in some areas of the country, but

weak in other areas largely due to GOP gerrymandering and/or voter suppression.

Can we stop with the Sanders is not a Democrat crap. It's a tinfoil argument; it's just a way to rationalize supporting a lesser over a greater.

[geek tragedy]

54. After his stunt today he has to prove he's

on our side rather than acting as a third party saboteur.

He no longer gets the benefit of the doubt.

[KPN]

60. And what stunt would that be?

Hillary represents far more of what is wrong with our political and governance system than she does what is right. Her goods don't outweigh her bads, not by a long shot. Meanwhile, the middle class is approaching the precipice. We can't wait any longer. It's time for change. That's what this is about -- a revolution. So I am 100% fine with sabotaging Hillary Clinton; if that's what it takes, that's what it takes.

[geek tragedy]

61. He accused the party of breaking federal campaign law. nt

[KPN]

62. Well, did they?

Why would his campaign make that case if it weren't true? You don't trust Bernie to speak the truth? Do you not support truth?

[geek tragedy]

63. No, they didn't. He made the accusation so they could use it to

send a fundraising email. Every independent election law expert said they're peddling bullshit.

And I have zero trust in Bernie Sanders's integrity. Same guy who said he wanted to run an issues-oriented positive campaign. Lol, that was quite a lie.

[Capt. Obvious]

87. That poster likes to push buttons of Sanders supporters

[djean111]

3. If Hillary gets the nomination, I see the party imploding.

I sure won't be there. Debbie DINO is bad enough - but Hillary, with her love of war and fracking and the TPP and Third Way attitude towards social services and safety nets? Either I am not a Democrat, or Hillary is not a Democrat. I will proceed accordingly with my support and votes.

[Live and Learn]

31. Yep, my 40 year history as a Democrat and avid supporter of the Democratic party will end.

I can't support the direction the party has been taking.

[840high]

40. You speak for me.

Started voting with JFK.

[lagomorph777]

109. I'm trying to persuade myself that the lesser of two evils is a good choice

but it's not easy. I may have to go Green so I can sleep at night.

[KPN]

55. Yup.

If the Democratic Party isn't smart enough to read the tea leaves and bring independents and long-term Ds who now support Bernie into the tent, then the tent isn't adequate. It needs to be replaced or torn down ... and will be no doubt.

[Zira]

57. I won't be there. I've been voting Dem since 1987. I will vote for anyone who has the highest number

who can stop hillary because I want to stop the Iran war that will be inevitable if she gets in. I will vote for the least evil no matter what party as long as it will stop that war monger. I also know I will leave the Dem party in a mass exodus with the rest of the people against DNC corruption and who realize that it really should be no Hillary no matter what because of her bloody record.

[quantass]

59. I agree

[Silver_Witch]

77. Speaking truth my friend

Either we have changed or the party has changed. To think it took Bernie to show us how much it has changed and not for the good of the party either!

[k8conant]

4. The Times they are a-changing...

[Jack Bone]

11. and Hillary's standing in the doorway...

blocking up the halls

[thelordofhell]

5. It says that even a Non-Democrat has a chance to win a Democratic Primary

If he/she espouses enough Democratic principles, then they are welcome to the Democratic Primary process.

[Silver_Witch]

79. Indeed!

Sad it is a non-dem willing to speak about democratic principles. I don't care what party someone is -"signed up for" truth is truth. Maybe the DNC should try finding such a candidate within the party eh?

[Vinca]

6. I think it means Democrats shouldn't try to be Republican-lite to get votes.

In the end, if a person leans right they'll vote for the real Republican.

[tokenlib]

8. The Third Way and Flint River water have similar properties...n/t

[2banon]

41. This!^^^^^^10000!

[Sky Masterson]

9. It tells me that the Democrats do need to change.

They need to drop the courting of people who will never vote for them and give the voters what they want.
I worry about the future of this party.
I think as of now the party may attract more people of color, but I am not positive if they will be as stalwart party members as they were in the past.
For instance. We can't deport people at record numbers and expect their families and friends to stick with us.
The youth attracted by Bernie will probably mostly abandon the label of Democrat and drift Independent.
Some will probably fade away believing that the whole thing is rigged and meaningless.
In a way I can't say that they are wrong.

[Punkingal]

10. I see the Democratic party having a lot fewer members after this go round.

One of which will be me. I naively thought we were better than Republicans, but I no longer believe that. The party absolutely needs to change, but it won't. Corporate power is too entrenched.

[ScreamingMeemie]

15. Agreed. And too many struggling families are losing too much to keep

up with the football game charade. Real suffering is happening at the hands of both parties.

[haikugal]

81. Is there a point were a political party has such low membership that they don't qualify? I think

The Democratic Party may find out..

[Hiraeth]

12. It is split wide open just like the R party.

[99Forever]

14. If the Democratic Party nominates Clinton...

... it will find itself in the kind of shape the GOP is.

I and many millions like me, have had all we will tolerate from the lying fucking bastards.

The Revolution is on, join it or get run over by it.


Enough is enough.

[Armstead]

16. It has a choice -- Be more like Bernie, or continue to slide into irrelevance

People don't want two parties beholden to Big Business and Wall St.

[jwirr]

18. The party as it is right now is heading over the cliff. IF

anything can be done to save it it will come from the left and not the center right. If I wanted to vote R I would and there is already an R party.

Our party has been disintegrating since the 90s and it will continue if Bernie loses this election.

[JudyM]

24. Indeed. And the blindness about this in our party is startling.

[jwirr]

74. Yes, especially when so many of us are hurting because of it.

[Maedhros]

19. It tells me the Democratic establishment needs to use every dirty trick,

political favor, and media-control lever it has to try and shut down an actual Progressive trying to work for the people - and he might win anyway.

[kentuck]

21. I wonder if the supporters of Hillary see any need to change?

And they will continue to march straight ahead?

[Maedhros]

35. Bruce Cockburn gives us the answer:

Fashionable fascism dominates the scene
When the ends don't meet it's easier to justify the means
Tenants get the dregs and the landlords get the cream
As the grinding devolution of the Democratic dream
Gives us men in gas masks dancing while the shells burst
The trouble with normal is it always gets worse...

[2banon]

44. "The trouble with normal is it always gets worse"..

great lyrics, perfect metaphor

The trouble with normal is it always gets worse..

[firebrand80]

22. Good Question

I think it shows that the party has moved left in the last eight years. I don't think it's as far left as Bernie is, but I think the next nominee will be a lot closer to Bernie than Hillary.

[Cassiopeia]

49. You say that

and I can only guess you mean after Hillary. Hillary is a move further to the right and has been a champion of that movement.

I don't see how we send her to the GE this year and just say 'next time we'll move left.'

[ibegurpard]

23. near hopelessly corrupt

[bigwillq]

25. That the DEM party is content with the same old BS.

Yes, the party needs to change.
If Hillary wins the nomination, it will think it doesn't need to change.

As far as the future, if the status quo holds, I may have to find another party. Never been a big party guy--think the two major parties are both awful--but I vote DEM the majority of the time because the REP party is even worse.

I vote for candidate rather than party, but I still end up voting for the DEM most of the time because the options are limited.

[RandySF]

26. It says to me that Bernie is not a Democrat.

[Live and Learn]

34. If you are the new face of the Democratic party then many of us are not Democrats. nt

[polichick]

89. The party left the people decades ago, and the Clintons led that effort...

It has just taken people a while to fit all the pieces together and see the outcome.

[killbotfactory]

27. It tells me more dems should stick up for the working class.

The Clintons and third way democrats figured the way to political power was to essentially sell us out, and throw us crumbs. They may have been right in the 90's but they are completely wrong now. Until they figure out a way to neuter the internet under US law, we have the means to coordinate and fight for our interests effectively.

[ecstatic]

28. I think Corey Booker can run and win in 2020 or 2024.

Assuming he gets married (or something). Nobody else comes to mind at the moment.

[Marrah_G]

29. I think if it does not change, a new party will start forming

[awake]

30. Bernie's race say to me that he is a white guy

Who works for the betterment of all races and sexes.

[uponit7771]

33. "when you talk about ghettos traditionally, what you talk about is African-American communities. "

[Live and Learn]

36. And??? Do you realize your post has absolutely no meaning? nt

[uponit7771]

69. To people who have low comprehension? maybe...

[awake]

38. Maybe Bernie's compassion comes from have had family members who were in concentration camps

He marched on Washinton with MLK for civil rights and chinned himself to others and got arrested protesting segregation, Bernie's whole live has been devoted to others.

[uponit7771]

70. Unnn, maybe fore the 80s yes.. after that it was guns and he hardly went into diverse neigborhoods

... so right now one way it shows is he and his team keep minimizing Clinton's wins in red GE states that have a lot of blacks in them.

If Sanders had continued his being Chained to people who were protesting then I don't think Hillary would've run at all

[840high]

43. "Sper predators", "bring to Heel".

[uponit7771]

71. Only stupid racist people think super predators describes black kids exclusively

[Silver_Witch]

82. Like Hillary..

...who is the one that said it and all of us listening live at that time knew EXACTLY what she meant by it. Being there puts context and you know that!

[uponit7771]

91. Link and quote Hillary intimating super predator meant blacks? Again, only stupid racist dumb

... ass's think super predators only meant black people.

[haikugal]

83. Dog whistles...super preditors, bring them to heel and pretzel logic..you're not uponanything.

[uponit7771]

92. Only stupid racist people think super predators describes black kids exclusively

[haikugal]

93. Nope....

[uponit7771]

96. K, only stupid, racist, conservative minded and ignorant people think super predators describes

... black kids exclusively.

That better?

tia

[haikugal]

98. In that context yes..however if you intended to indict those of us who pointed out Hillary's use

Of such terms, in that case no.

[uponit7771]

99. The people I've read indict her never over the use of the phrase meaning black kids only...

... and has been an indictment over the policy that went too far.

Progressives don't think super predators are exclusive to blacks

[haikugal]

100. Hillary is no progressive. She pretends to be one but then she uses Kissinger as mentor...you

Can call yourself anything but your actions tell the real story.

[uponit7771]

101. Voting against the Brady Bill once = gun nut, 5 times = gumper so he's no progressive either...

... looking at the facts

[840high]

95. Ostrich

[uponit7771]

97. "when you talk about ghettos traditionally, what you talk about is African-American communities. "

People who don't realize why this guy is losing the black vote like he his are the Ostriches

[BillZBubb]

80. Geez, you keep running with that tired bullshit. Welcome to ignore!

[grossproffit]

86. And "jobs for low-income kids so that they’re not hanging out on street corners"

[uponit7771]

32. That the party is too nice to allow such an overt bull shit artist run under its banner, bout it

[Live and Learn]

37. And now you have gone to complete gibberish. nt

[uponit7771]

39. Gibberish = 35 years in Washington isn't "establishment"

[Live and Learn]

42. Determined to prove my point I see.

[uponit7771]

67. Nah, jus pointing out the Podium Bird Logic

[pangaia]

52. No. It's not.

[uponit7771]

66. More podium bird logic, whatever it takes for you to sleep at night

[pangaia]

72. Bernie has spent those years fighting AGAINST what you call the establishment.

[WhiteTara]

107. like when he voted to dump toxins in a Hispanic community

in Texas? Like when he voted for AUMF? There are more, but you get the gist. He is a politician and all that implies. Despite some having photoshopped him as Virgin Mary, he is no saint, he's a politician who is determined to win and he dropped his persona of the nice guy some time ago in that effort. Glad you have a candidate you believe in, but don't sh*t all over the rest of the party. Put up your positives, that will attract more supporters.

[pangaia]

108. I am sure you know what White Tara is in Tibetan Buddhism.

[redstateblues]

47. Word salad

[uponit7771]

68. Sanders = Full Of Shit.......That simple enough?

[hollowdweller]

45. That Obama Was Right

There really is hope when somebody like Bernie who is real can make it so far.

He may or may not make it all the way but the voters are rising up

[Cassiopeia]

46. I've always known both parties had drifted to the right, but

this election season I find myself shocked as to how far so many have accepted and embraced that change.

50 years ago even Republicans embraced fair wages and unions, now so many lifelong Democrats will argue about even trying to fight for those two issues alone.

Bernie's platform is not radical, let alone the batshit crazy, loony, extreme left like some imply. The party has just moved away from its core values and beliefs so very far.

The Clinton's have a lot to do with that rightward sprint. If Hillary is the best the party has to offer, then the party just really doesn't have anything to offer to me, at least on a federal level.

[Kalidurga]

48. It tells me that 3rd way values aren't well liked in the party.

[PufPuf23]

50. The Democratic Party is split between traditional liberals and neo-liberals and

these two political philosophies are opposite.

The Democratic Party is also the natural home of the anti-war and anti-military empire sentiment but the Party is controlled by progressive interventionists and neo-conservatives.

there is no mending these rifts; the neo-liberals and neo-conservatives have gained and maintain control by money, nepotism, fear, violence, bullying, and Machiavellian politics.

The anti-war liberals have the numbers but lost the power 40 years ago.

To me POTUS Obama was a start, a good POTUS compared to other recent POTUSs POTUS Obama sold transformation but failed to use the grass roots and act on his campaign rhetoric. POTUS Obama is a neo-liberal.

Sanders would be another chance to shift directions and reduce the impact of neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism, to make a more just society; kinder to the environment, kinder to the less fortunate, and less a bully and cop internationally.

Sanders would be a start, probably one term, but a transformative POTUS opening a new path for later POTUS and politicians.

Time for the transformation is on the order of a generation or more.

The within Party anger is not going to go away. Traditional liberals talk about leaving the Party because it no longer represents their sensibilities. I think they should stay and fight, I am. I want the neo-liberals and neo-conservatives gone. For all their "successes" they have proved themselves to benefit wealth and empire at a cost to most of us in just about every aspect of life.

The most pragmatic method may be to take a long run strategy and let the Party burn at present if Clinton is the POTUS nominee. Renewal can be opportunity for good. Do not vote for incumbents. Do not donate money to DNC or establishment Democrats. Do not participate in events except with your own known leaders. Build the Party up from your communities. Starve out the neo-liberals and neo-conservatives. Be heartless. Isolate them. Shame them. Leave the door open to some that wake up. Be wary of incrementalism. Let the neo-liberals and neo-conservatives revive the GOP or form their own Party. The neo-liberals have been successful with identity and cultural politics; but a liberal, multi-cultural Democratic Party is the natural home for these demographics as well as the Party of the young and intellectual and respect for nature.

Bernie Sanders is an opportunity to transform and change the direction of the Democratic Party and nation. He has the values of the traditional "New Deal" liberal Democrat. But Sanders may not happen. We have a DNC and Democratic Party establishment that failed to identify and support a POTUS candidate who is unacceptable for reasons of character for half or more of the Party. Incumbents support special interests. Money and influence have impacted our political process to such a degree that many question whether we have lost our democracy and democratic republic. The Democratic establishment and incumbents forge legislation and policy that is closer to moderate Republicans of 40 years ago than liberal and progressive.

The divide within the Democratic Party is a chasm.

[Zira]

56. Hillary is NOT a strong candidate. THAT IS A LIE. Her numbers have been down hill

for months and continue to drop. Bernie wins in all polls against the republicans.

Look at her support - she just lost 60 points in NY. She is not a strong candidate. She on a race downhill and can only win by vote suppression.

[KPN]

58. YES and YES.

If the Party isn't wise and smart enough to embrace independents and the long term Ds who support Bernie, it will languish.

[tralala]

65. I think it says that mainstream liberals

are against social-democratic reforms, even the very modest ones that Sanders is proposing

[forjusticethunders]

73. It says there's a lot of energy for leftism and progressivism

But that means nothing because leftism and progressivism is full of strategic ineptitude, entitled laziness, self-righteous arrogance and an unwillingness to listen to criticism and learn from failure.

The left of the party needs to put down AlterNet, Counterpunch and Reddit and actually get to work if they want to move the country, but when you consider that Sanders independents (not Democrats) are by and large, economically secure white males, I don't really see that happening.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

75. It says that the democratic part of "Democratic Party" is false advertising.

[NorthCarolina]

78. If Clinton is the nominee I see MAJOR rules changes to prevent another "Sanders"

from ever mounting a challenge to the establishment again.

[polichick]

84. Both parties are on their way out - already more voters are independents...

than either Dem or Rep.

The parties don't serve the people - we are seeing a movement building (Occupy, BLM, Sanders, etc.) that will change everything eventually.

[Marr]

85. Bernie's candidacy and the GOP lineup tell me the same things.

First, that the Democratic Party (and the implied "center&quot has moved so far to the right that the only space left for Republicans is in Ted Cruz territory. That's not good.

Second, it tells me the general public is disgusted with the political establishment as a whole, right and left alike. The support for both Sanders and Trump suggests that large portions of the bases on both sides of the political divide feel that their interests have been disregarded by their political leadership.

[Victor_c3]

88. I think it says that the democratic party is not what I thought it was

I thought the democratic party was opposed to warmongers and corporatists but I've learned otherwise. As a disabled combat veteran I'm not exactly a big fan of war and I abhor Hillary Clinton's corporatists leanings. However, roughly half of the supposed democrats believe just that as is evident by their support for Hillary.

I'm exceedingly disappointed in the democratic party. I thought they were better than that.

[silvershadow]

90. It says to me the Third Way needs to form its' own party and get out of mine. nt

[KPN]

102. Hear Hear!

Time to take our party back from self-serving feel gooder scaliwags.

[mmonk]

94. To be honest, I view the party today as a non-racist Republican Party.

Thus my difficulties with it.

[HassleCat]

103. Hillary is an excellent candidate.

She is probably the best person the party could imagine to continue the third way strategy, but that is wearing thin. She has the misfortune to arise at a time when more and ore Democrats are rebelling and demanding more progressive action from our party. Sanders would not be considered a good candidate, at least on paper, but he comes along at a time that allows him to tap into the frustration that's been building for a while. Imagine what would happen if he were a "real" Democrat, younger, more charismatic, etc. This is why so many people wanted Elizabeth Warren.

My prediction is that Hillary will be our next president, will fail to deliver on any progressive issues, and will face a very dangerous primary challenge in 2020. If the challenge comes from someone like Warren, she will be knocked out of office by a fellow Democrat.

[oldandhappy]

104. Candidates should be treated equally thru primaries.

DNC manipulations and media disrespect have driven me away. I do not know how to tell the difference between 'the party' and the DNC. Something needs to change. I am changing my registration after the primary but will still vote for Dems. So the change in terms of me will the down tick of one number. Not a stunning change! But satisfying. I am not against clinton as president. I am a Bernie supporter and I am really really offended by the DNC and the media. I do not know if that answers the questions. Just me.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

105. Who knows. It should abandon years of its Reaganomic ways, but those people have money, power, and

friends and lobbists and don't want to lose their jobs. I think the DLC/DNC will do everything possible to quash a coup. Expect them to copy Republican dirty tricks. Hillary is going get it from all ends (obligatory sexism).

[Joob]

110. Can't force to change it. This is probably the most undemocratic thing I've seen

first time voter and just wow. I'm getting out of here the moment bernie loses, if he does. This party is filled with hate. They don't see their candidate is owned by corporations and how deep the corruption goes. I don't know what to say except I can't wait to see how this turns out. Either way, revolutions coming, this party doesnt have to be apart of it.

[ridgenvalley]

111. It's a dead Party.

Bought out and wholly owned by corporate interests. It refuses to alter course, or even admit there is a problem, and voters, especially younger ones, will look elsewhere for meaningful changes. imo.