Clinton and Sanders supporters can't stand each other

[bemildred]

(CNN)I was fortunate to have the opportunity to watch Thursday's Democratic debate in Brooklyn live and in person. Although I have seen the other debates on television, there was something more visceral about being there.

What was most dramatic was not any particular point in the debate or any statement the candidates made, but the display of sheer and intense animosity that has developed between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders supporters. With so much attention focused on the civil war taking place among Republicans, commentators may have missed the anger brewing among Democrats.

The tension was on display to everyone in the room. The candidates themselves barely looked at each other during the commercial breaks or when the contest ended.

Besides the tense words they exchanged, their body language made it clear there is now considerable fury at the very top of the campaign about how each has characterized the other and about the kind of politics each represents.

http://us.cnn.com/2016/04/15/opinions/clinton-and-sanders-supporters-animosity-opinion-zelizer/index.html

[brooklynite]

1. A friend of mine (DNC member/Super Delegate) had the same observation...

...I can't say I noticed animosity during the commercial breaks, but it was clear that the crowd was a lot more partisan during the actual debate.

Still, a handful of activists in a room is an insignificant fraction of the electorate at large.

Clinton will win NYS. Clinton will win the nomination. Very few Democrats will refuse to vote for her.

[Bluenorthwest]

25. This is what you support:

Her supporters did not mind that at all, in fact most of them seemed to cheer for it, they were thrilled to hear LGBT dismissed and Reagan praised. It was like a homecoming for the Reagan Democrats.

[PufPuf23]

32. This is what you support #2:

This person is unfit to be POTUS or CIC.

Hillary Clinton is bought and paid to preserve wealth and power and military empire.

[lewebley3]

77. Sorry, Hillary has never been brought : you are repeating Sanders4 propaganda

[revbones]

78. Her bankruptcy bill vote was certainly bought. nt

[lewebley3]

86. Just more smear from Sanders suppoter: aboslutely no truth:

[revbones]

87. She was against it. Got donor money, then voted for it. No falsehoods there. nt

[lewebley3]

88. Hillary has had stronger attack against the banks: Sandders just lied about

breaking the banks :he babbled like Palin when he was asked
how he would break up the banks.

[revbones]

91. Doesn't change that she sold her vote and is bought does it?

And she babbled and waffled when simply asked to tell the American people she wouldn't lie, but like your post, it's not wholly relevant to the original topic is it?

[lewebley3]

98. Hillary cannot be bought: Nobody pushes her around!

[revbones]

105. ROFL sure.

[lewebley3]

126. What nonsence: Didn't sell any votesa

[revbones]

149. No, actual fact. She was against it, took donor money then voted for it.

Might want to research more before posting those ridiculous nonsensical one-liners....

[lewebley3]

129. Hillary's vote was not brought:Sanders is losing to your are smearing with lies

[Electric Monk]

165. That's twice you made the same "typo". Reading comprehension is your friend. Bought, not brought. nt

[PufPuf23]

85. Hillary Clinton is the most bought national Democratic politician ever.

That is my own propaganda.

I backed into Sanders as the only available choice the Democratic Party managed to provide as an alternative.

Isn't the video clip repulsive and evidence of personal failure (and indicator of warped character)?

Can you type a literate response?

[lewebley3]

89. Your attack iempty of any trurh

[PufPuf23]

90. Your post empty of any spelling. eom

[lewebley3]

99. but not truth

[creon]

116. prove it.

provide this website with sworn depositions with names, dates, phone records, emails.

This post is typical of a fan who will make all kinds of accusations with no proof of anything at all.

Provide the proof.

[PufPuf23]

120. Watch the video. If you are a decent human being, you can

see Hillary Clinton is unfit to be CIC or POTUS.

Look at the many lists of payment for speeches to banks or tens of millions of dollars collected by The Clinton Foundation from banks, fossil fuel companies, MIC companies, and foreign governments.

No other POTUS or former First Lady have ever come close to the increase in wealth enjoyed by the Clintons.

Are you so naïve or are you so cynical to believe the payments do not impact subsequent decisions and policy development.

Princeton has recently released a report about how the USA has drifted from democracy (and yes I know we are a representative republic and not a pure democracy).

The liberal Democratic icon Jimmy Carter says we are an oiligarchy.

I realize my waste of time typing this for you.

[mythology]

123. You are wasting your time, but not for the reason you think

You presume moral certainty that voting for Sanders is the only ethical choice choice and that anybody voting otherwise isn't a decent person.

It a textbook no true Scotsman argument and shows that you aren't interested in a discussion. As such you're effectively wasting your time.

[PufPuf23]

125. My moral certainty is that Hillary Clinton is an unfit candidate.

Forget about the money or anything else, watch the video.

That person is unfit to be CIC or POTUS.

I would not consider myself a strong Sanders supporter, I was going to back into any Democratic candidate that was competitive with Hillary Clinton.

I may well vote for Clinton next Fall but be sickened and angry.

I have been a registered Democrat and Democratic voter since 1972 and was politicized to the Democratic Party in 1968. One exception was 1980 when I registered GOP to vote for John Anderson against Reagan in the California primary but supported Jerry Brown over Carter and voted Carter in the general.

I was fortunate to be at a boarding school near San Francisco in 1968 and my roommate (RIP Eric) was the son of that outstanding Democrat of Nevada, Maya Miller. I got to eat a family meal with Eugene McCarthy when he campaigned in San Francisco; I was 15.

I don't intend to leave the Democratic Party and I am incapable of supporting Hillary Clinton because of her actions post 2001. I voted for Bill Clinton twice and stayed the course during the mis-steps and faux scandals.

Long term members of the Democratic Party who agree with me are far from rare.

[creon]

132. fail

You proved nothing.
And you know it

"decent human being?"

lol

[CoffeeCat]

67. I think you're in for some surprises

I am shocked at how in denial many party-establishment types are about this "unify" thing.

This really is not about Hillary Clinton. Many, including myself, feel that the Democratic party no longer represents Democratic values that we cherish.

Not only will many not vote for her, many will leave the Democratic party. It's all ready happening.

Me? I'm a lifelong, loyal Democrat who has volunteered for the party during many elections cycles. I've logged countless hours as an absentee-ballot courier, precinct captain and canvasser. I've made many donations to the party and to candidates and I've opened my home to out-of-town Democrats who needed housing.

The Democratic party is an integral part of my identity and always has been. However, something is not right. What we are accepting into our party--warmongering, corporate corruption--is not right.

I have no idea what I'm going to do. Contemplating registering as an Independent is painful for me, but it may happen. If she's the nominee, I won't vote for her. Frankly, I don't think she'll be the nominee.

I think her supporters clearly haven't a clue about the massive paradigm shifts that are happening underneath the party.

I wish that we could work together, but it seems impossible. I can't agree that powerful special interests have their place corrupting our democracy and our election process. I can't agree that it's ok that Hillary picked Robert Kagan, the founder of the neocon movement, to be one of her foreign-policy advisers. I find that stomach churning.

I think foundational common ground between the left and the center-right in our party has been lost. I see it on a macro level and I've experienced in my own state. 1,000 Hillary and Bernie delegates at our convention--screaming at each other, flipping each other off, yelling, "Cheaters!" with both sides openly and very loudly accusing the other of ripping the party apart.

This is not 2008. If you're in denial about what is really happening, then there will be no real effort to fix the damage (not that it can be fixed anyway).

[brooklynite]

75. According to FiveThirtyEight, the rancor is no worse than it was in 2008.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/elections-podcast-is-the-2016-democratic-primary-as-nasty-as-the-2008-democratic-primary/

[PufPuf23]

80. The nastiness in 2008 also originated from the Hillary Clinton campaign.

You may want to believe that the rancor is no worse but it is.

Just like you want to believe that the young and inexperienced and white bread are most of Sanders' supporters.

Many of us are long term and dependable Democratic Party members. Look at DU.

Some may be willing to play for the long haul and let the Democratic Party burn first rather than support what is viewed as evil.

I will hold a grudge if forced to vote for Clinton this Fall.

I am almost as angry as at Bush/Cheney over the failures of the Democratic leadership and DNC.

Popular votes are easy to win if one is not Machiavellian and supports people and the environment over money, power, and war.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[TSIAS]

161. 538 is partially right

The official campaigns are less vituperative than in 2008. Reportedly the operatives still resent each other, even if the candidates moved on for their own self interests.

This year it's clear the supporters do hate one another. Clinton supporters see Sanders supporters as interlopers in the Democratic Party. Even though I've been a member since I could vote, and always support our candidates, they think of us as a destructive force trying to bring the party back to the pre-DLC years. Clinton supporters view us as freeloaders who support Sanders because we wish to suckle off the teat of government largesse.

On the other hand, we see Clinton supporters as clinging to the last vestiges of the status quo. We see them as cheerleaders who simply want to root for the blue team. It's like they're supporting their favorite sports team. Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing. I find them to lack consistent principles, and refuse to engage on the issues. Tokengate, Popegate, Huertagate, RosarioDawsongate, Vermontisbringingnewyorkgunsgate just confirm that they are willing to fling mud regardless of the facts.

I can say that I might come around and vote for Clinton. But I'll never read this board again. I would literally vomit upon celeberatg with a great many of these people.

[CoffeeCat]

81. It was never like this in 2008

It's beyond one candidate vs. the other candidate.

Way beyond.

[Fawke Em]

135. And 538 has been woefully wrong a lot this year.

[TM99]

158. That anyone still uses 538

as a source of correct prediction is beyond me.

[PufPuf23]

76. Another fine post by CoffeeCat

I have been a registered Democrat and dependable Democratic voter since 1972 and an anti-war liberal since 1968.

I don't intend to leave the Party but I will bear a grudge and be angry until the Democratic Party again represents Democratic values.

It is conceivable that I could vote for Hillary Clinton Fall 2016 and the thought makes me vomit.

The Democratic leadership failed in this POTUS election cycle be pre-selecting Hillary Clinton who has so many negatives.

The split in the Democratic party is fundamental and not subject to repair.

Look at the beginning of DU.

What would be the opinion of a candidate that paled with Kissinger and Kagan and used David Brock as a campaign advisor back in 2003?

Some Democrats have lost their focus and moral bearings

[lewebley3]

92. The only shock is how crazy the Sanders people have become

[OhZone]

104. Pretty much -nt

[lewebley3]

102. Dem's are sticking with Dem's: what you are a left wing tea party

[KPN]

128. Kudos for speaking up. Love your candor!

You sounded exactly like my thoughts. .... I'm having an impossible time coming up with rationales for why I should vote for Hillary other than SCOTUS. And when I think about that one, I feel like real progressives have been taken hostage by the DNC and our vote for Hillary is simply ransom. .... The Democratic Party no longer represents me and my interests. If Hillary is nominated, she won't be getting my vote.

[840high]

152. If she is the nominee

I'll vote down ticket. I will not feel right selling this country by voting for her.

[Samantha]

147. Just before the vote in Massachusetts this year

The Secretary of State came out and said 20,000 Democrats had left the party THIS YEAR (in Massachusetts). Three thousand had signed up with the Republicans and the rest became Independents.

I found the comment stunning.

I too had been thinking about leaving, but then I rethought the whole thing through. I believe the FDR Dems should force the Third Way people out and remain the Democratic party. We have a history of laws Democrats initiated and we want to preserve them and keep the ideas we hold as solemn rights in place. The Third Way is trying to take over this party and we would be foolish to allow that to happen.

Just my two cents.

Sam

[lewebley3]

84. Not true: Hillary's supporters have beeen gracious:winners:: Its

Sanders people attacking Hillary's gender: Hillary was a bigger
person for letting it go.

[840high]

154. WTF? attacking gender?

[lewebley3]

162. Sanders people. used the word whore to attack Hillary

[840high]

164. Only in your mind.

Strange you would think it was Hillary. Telling.

[Fawke Em]

134. "Very few Democrats will refuse to vote for her."

The thing you don't seem to get is that after this election, there will be very few Democrats.

The Party has run off its left flank and this time they'll probably leave for good.

The Party bled 12 percent of its voter base from 42 percent to 30 percent in just the last few years.

I think the Third Way has killed the Party.

BTW, in order to win a general election, you need the blessings of all the Independents so many of your fellow Hillary fans seem to despise. Good luck with that.

[Logical]

148. She is a fucking mess of a candidate, but slightly better than any GOP idiot. nt

[RandySF]

153. Exactly

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

2. I could sense that....

....via CNN.com

[tularetom]

3. Actually its Clinton herself that I can't stand

I really don't give a shit about her supporters.

[Autumn]

5. ^^^THIS^^^ Her supporters are nothing to me.

Last edited Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:07 AM - Edit history (1)

The only Hillary supporters that I encounter are here on DU. Words on a screen

[kwassa]

16. And who are you to them?

This cuts both ways.

[Autumn]

17. I don't care how it cuts.

[kwassa]

22. I know.

[IdaBriggs]

110. I know two in real life.

Both will happily back Bernie if he is the nominee. One is a Hillary enthusiast (donates money) while the other just assumes he will have no choice.

I actually know multiple Republicans who are willing to vote Bernie. None are willing to vote Hillary.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

40. Exactly

[BernieforPres2016]

55. I can't stand her or her supporters

But whether or not I like her supporters has zero impact on the fact that I will never cast a vote for her.

[Tommy2Tone]

60. Like we give a shit what you think of us or Hillary?

[Ghost Dog]

109. Give-not-a-shitters.

Precisely.

[lewebley3]

94. That's because you're not a progressive: progressive will. be out working for her

Last edited Sat Apr 16, 2016, 04:51 PM - Edit history (1)

[Fawke Em]

139. Actually, it's the progressives who don't like her.

[lewebley3]

144. They xo like. her: rhat is why she is winning

[DisgustipatedinCA]

63. We can keep doing this, but if she gets the nomination, she's going down hard. That's on you.

[Tommy2Tone]

70. So the rules are we should kiss Bernie's fans asses.

and suffer insult after insult to what end. So you and the rest of Bern's fans can sit out the election?

If we lose we lose. Losing is something you will know of first.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

71. No. I don't want or expect that. If Hillary and her fans had run an honest campaign, it would be

different.

That didn't happen, and it's far too late now. So no need to kiss anyone's ass. But don't expect support, and do expect some active opposition from places other than DU. Again, that die has already been cast.

[apcalc]

79. Oh pul-leeze

[DisgustipatedinCA]

82. Yeah, that really changed everything. Next.

[lewebley3]

103. I cannot stand empty suit Sanders

[tularetom]

117. Is there any truth to the rumor that you are actually Yoda?

[Katashi_itto]

163. Your "writing style" is akin to some meth using yoda.

[Arugula Latte]

119. The way she was yelling over Bernie during the debate was so off-putting.

I watched the debate with three other people and at various times we all said: "Shut the Fuck Up and Let Him Talk, Hillary!" God she is annoying. I am beyond furious that this shitty Republican Lite candidate is being shoved down our throats.

[Zira]

150. +1

I also didn't like her low ball tactic - when she brought up the interview Bernie did and then said he didn't know how he would accomplish anything she took the dishonest news tactic instead of addressed what he said truthfully. It speaks loads for her.

And when she said she's always been for the $15 minimum wage - again, chronic and constant liar Hillary on display. You can just stand there with google on your phone as she speaks and see lie, lie, lie, angry attack using a lie, lie, lie, lie. Her supporters must be so proud of that. I'd be embarrassed if I were them.

[Arugula Latte]

160. Yes, the mental gymnastics they must perform to convince themselves that

Hillary is not actually a lying, corrupt, sleazy, flip-flopping, two-faced disaster of a candidate must be exhausting.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

4. Huh.

I thought we'd been told endlessly that what happens on DU doesn't represent how people in the 'real world' think or behave. Looks like we might be more representative than some folks think.

Looks like there might need to be some rethinking of that 'delegitimize now, get party unity later' strategy.

[bemildred]

12. Divisive strategies divide, if they work.

And when you "go negative", using surrogates or not, that's divisive.

The assumption seems to be that the Republicans can't win, I've seen that before. It's wishful thinking. They have won a lot, already.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

45. I think that's true to a point

Most here on DU are more politically involved then the average citizen, but so are everyone with the campaigns (obviously). So maybe the dividing line isn't DU vs. the rest, but rather politically involved vs. the rest.

[Jefferson23]

6. They are as different as day and night, that's why. I don't care what is said about

how they vote mostly the same, blah blah blah...they are very different.

[Art_from_Ark]

7. ^This^

[Lizzie Poppet]

8. I've had that driven home to me right here on DU...

...and I agree that it's more broadly true, as well. There are two vastly different sets of priorities in play here.

[Kip Humphrey]

30. Yes, Corporate Socialism vs Democratic Socialism.

[2banon]

111. This!^^^^^^10000! ding.ding.ding.ding.

EXACTLY!

[Ghost Dog]

112. Democratic socialism works well

in a well-regulated open market economy because it fosters the long-term interests of the majority of the people (including social, cultural & environmental interests), enabling them to supply to and make purchases in that market.

Corporate socialism disables people and exponentially consumes everything.

[Kip Humphrey]

115. well said, thank you!

[Bread and Circus]

9. I would agree, if DU is any example. I loathe what is written here and consider it morally inferior.

Whether I am justified or not is up to debate as I could be entirely biased, which I am willing to admit.

But the behavior I see here from Hillary supporters I consider degenerate and morally reprehensible. I feel like they have no allegiance to truth or shared improvement of our democracy but rather only winning, at any cost.

[Tommy2Tone]

65. Oh go find a pot and beat it then! n/t

[Hiraeth]

155. fuck that. if I find some pot. I'm gonna smoke it

[vintx]

137. +1

[notadmblnd]

10. Ever see the movie "Mean Girls?"

That is what HRC and her supporters are. And when someone confronts them on their "meanness" they play the innocent victim.

And we all know that their victim-hood is merely an act.

[Impedimentus]

13. Absolutely Correct - PERFECT Analogy

FEEL THE BERN - 2016

[Jackilope]

31. Perfect analogy. Clintons have their enemies list / burn book for retaliation

on whoever goes against them.

[lewebley3]

106. Hillary is innocent: she proven after every attack to be innocent

[TM99]

159. We used to simply call them bullies.

Stand up to them and they fold like a cheap suit.

[CrowCityDem]

11. Tensions are always highest...

when some people practically think their person walks on water. For them, this isn't a political race, it's almost literally the end of the world if they don't win. How are they supposed to be level-headed when dealing with people they think are hastening the end times?

[beedle]

20. Projection

Bernie supporters would support any candidate that had a record of being serious about taking money out of politics.

Bernie supporters just believe, very justifiably that politics these days are all about who can sell their soul for the largest amount of money in order to get elected, and what that to change.

If Elizabeth Warren were going against Sanders I can see myself and many Bernie supporters switching over to her ... the cult of personality belongs to the Clinton camp, the camp that refuses to even recognize what Hillary's 'superior experience' really shows about her; A long and established history of very poor judgment.

[Skwmom]

14. Why would we feel that way about Clinton supporters?

The Clintons, their political hacks, and the corporate media constantly manipulate voters and play hide the ball so it is not like Clinton supporters are supporting what the Clintons have done.

[NurseJackie]

15. Weird ... The Bernie fans that I know personally are ...

... perfectly reasonable people. I like them, they like me. It's nothing at all like what I see here.

[apcalc]

36. Remember

There are TROLLS here whose main goal is to create dissension between the " camps" so we don't go to the polls to support the " other" candidate.

[bemildred]

41. +1. nt

[blue neen]

143. +10,000!

Both the Bernie and Hillary supporters I know are great, hard-working people with open minds and open hearts. Trolls don't want us to believe that.

Now, some of the Trump supporters around here, well, that's another story. I don't even know any Cruz supporters, although with the PA Primary coming up, some will surely surface.

[Haveadream]

43. Same

The people I know who support Bernie and I are like this:



Some are family members and some are friends. When we have political discussions, which is a lot, there is ZERO animosity. (For that matter, there is less acrimony from the Republican people I know. Most have a positive impression of HRC, less so of Bernie.) All the Dems and Indies I know are focused on beating the Republicans and will vote Dem in November - no matter what. That is what makes the difference. It is the those who constantly denigrate, smear and refuse to vote for or support Dems that has people backing away from Bernie. They remind people of the RW fringe and are doing him no favors.

Recently there are people in my immediate circle who have changed their votes to HRC. None the other way. None. I think going negative has hurt Bernie a lot and I partially blame his handlers for that. I think some on DU are too caught up in the moment and are not seeing the larger picture. Just my observation. I hope calmer heads prevail once the primary is over. We are all connected.

Peace

[Tommy2Tone]

62. I know some as well

Just none here.

[CoffeeCat]

72. Yes, but DU has become

a playground where most Hillary supporters mock, insult, belittle and tear down every detail about Bernie, his campaign and his supporters.

The recent Vatican situation epitomizes this. So many Bernie supporters posting positive posts about being excited about his Vatican trip. Clinton supporters descended on every single one of those posts--mocking Bernie supporters and Bernie.

"He was never invited. What a horrible embarrassment he is."

"Bernie is lying and he's never going to meet the Pope."

"Bernie wormed his way into this conference so they're squeezing him in before a coffee break!"

"The Pope is obviously leaving for Greece to ditch Bernie!"

"Bernie won't be speaking!"

Every single positive thread that was posted, was polluted with accusations, mocking and gossip that all turned out to be LIES, made up just to denigrate Bernie, the trip and his supporters.

Now, both sides on DU are a tangled mess of hate. It's one big dog fight now.

[ibegurpard]

73. They like you?

I doubt that. It's called being polite.

[JoePhilly]

100. Same.

[m-lekktor]

107. Do you say the nasty shit to them you say on DU?

I would cross the fucking street if I saw you coming based on your posts on here.

[Fawke Em]

136. Luckily, I don't know any Hillary supporters.

Which is odd, since she allegedly won my state (but not my city).

All the people I know are either Bernie supporters or Republicans (and a few of THEM are Bernie supporters).

[Agschmid]

18. Actually in the real world (not DU)...

We seem to get along fine, at least the folks I know.

[kwassa]

19. I thought your OP title was describing GDP ...

for the last several weeks.

[Punkingal]

21. I don't like her.

She sets the tone, after all.

[workinclasszero]

23. I never liked libertarians and green party/naderites that sold us down the river

for eight years of Bush republican hell so nothing has changed with me at least.

Most of them believe just like Bernie's nasty 1%er mouthpiece Susan Sarandon that Trump will bring the "revolution" when Bernie fails to make the cut.

IOW they are no allies to democrats in the first place.

[dogman]

28. How could they sell you down the river?

You reject them because they don't bow down to the corporate Democratic stooges. Reject voters and lose, it's really that simple.

[geek tragedy]

24. Condescension vs sanctimony nt

[bemildred]

26. +1.

An excellent description.

Whenever I see babble about how things are in the "real world", I tune out, This is the real world, Bucko. You don't control it.

And likewise with the moral posturing, we are all complicit, and we have been all of our lives, no real choice if you want to eat. I know I am. You don't see me pretending to be Mother Theresa. But I will vote to end this economic stupidity.

The question is whether you like things the way they are, or you think change is needed. The public has expressed itself forcefully on the subject several times now and has been vigorously and expensively thwarted. Things won't get better until TPTB get a clue, or two.

[geek tragedy]

46. Most disagreement on our side is how to achieve the change

Debate on the other side is about how best to roll back progress.

[bemildred]

50. No, I see a good deal of the politics of personal assault on the right too.

They have been primary adherents of that strategy for a long time. You could say we learned it from them, but the fact is both parties have always been fond of it.

And I think that is the issue here, it gets personal, and then it isn't about the policy anymore.

[Haveadream]

61. Well said!

I agree with you! I personally admire and care about the people in my circle, no matter what their political persuasion and vice versa. Anything "personal" we feel about each other is consistently positive. And I have family and friends in every party.

[bemildred]

64. Thank you. That's the way to go. nt

[dogman]

29. Arrogance vs empathy nt

[geek tragedy]

47. I rest my case nt

[bemildred]

51. One of the reasons I posted this, Geek, is because of that.

Anybody that gets snotty just supports the OP's case.

[geek tragedy]

66. Finger-wagging draws snottiness. The cycle continues. nt

[bemildred]

69. Indeed it does. nt

Last edited Sat Apr 16, 2016, 02:05 PM - Edit history (1)

[bkkyosemite]

27. believe in one person one vote not the elite deciding elections.

That might have something to do with the differences between the two groups...

[apcalc]

33. I do not believe the original statement is true

There are Sanders supporters I am quite fond of.

[dawg]

34. I'll be proud to vote for either candidate this November.

I can't stand myself.

Edited to change "December" to "November". Why the hell did I think "December" in the first place? Where is my mind?

[SusanCalvin]

35. Oh, I dunno. There are "supporters" in both camps I can't stand. nt

[bemildred]

44. +1. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. The left/right divide in the party has always been there. It's boiling over this time.

And, like 1968, it's about time.

[BernieforPres2016]

57. It has to boil over, the status quo is not sustainable

We can either change things through the political process or wait for the riots.

[dana_b]

127. almost 50 years and a cleansing of the party

might be at hand. But the question is which side is the "dirty" side? If there is a contested convention, will they decide to develop a SUPER-super delegate system? Maybe one where the SSDs just vote and overturn anything that they don't like.

Or maybe the leaders of this corrupt party get their asses primaried and they are ousted. That would be lovely.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

130. Agreed.

[northernsouthern]

38. This is both Johnny Come Lately and instigation in one.

The fact that all the main media networks have failed to realize our party has been fracturing is partially because of the media black out, and partly because our on party has lost its mind. The fact they were ok with starting the game with a 400 card stacked hand, and then got to take several big turns in a row, and said it was over we should give up and support them for the next round. The fact they where so cavalier about electioneering, voter suppression, and blocking out 40% of the electorate, people in hardships, the youth, and the new voters...but then say you need to fall in and love us or else you are horrible people as they were doing it. That just showed how out of touch they were, not thinking it would offend the long time voters that believed in the values of the party, that the healing can happen later, let's go negative?

That is like running faster to try to put yourself out when you are on fire. The voters do not hate each other, the more vocal ones are defiantly at each other on these boards. This almost seems like they are trying to fan the flames of the party, they have smelled blood and are beginning to swarm.

[PufPuf23]

39. I hope that that this POTUS cycle begins an internal war to take back the Democratic Party

and DNC from the neo-liberals and neo-conservatives.

Hillary Clinton supporters are 1960 and 1970 GOP and appear to think Reagan was just dandy.

Hillary Clinton is pals with Kissinger and Kagan. What a bizarro world.

I don't want the mean and selfish vibe to continue and not in my name.

[NurseJackie]

48. What's really going to happen is ...

Bernie will endorse Hillary.
Reasonable Bernie supporters will rally around our nominee.
Bernie will return to the Senate.
Angry Bernie supporters will fade away.
Hillary will win the election.

Boom. Done. Nothing "bizarro" about that.

[lumberjack_jeff]

42. Hillary is a sellout; only in this for herself.

There's a sense of self-recrimination among Bernie supporters that we really should have recognized this aspect sooner.

[pinebox]

49. Because Hillary supporters are like Republicans

And that is EXACTLY what it is.
They pontificate on DU daily with positions that haphazardly help *some* people and throw out red baiting comments that have more in common with the likes of Ron Paul than they do a Democrat. I have come to the conclusion that this is a race about one thing; the have and the have nots.

Remember that old adage of how Republicans vote against their own self interests? Well we can apply this here too because say for example, if you're a minimum wage worker or someone who works in the service industry, why would you support Hillary who wants to pay you $3 an hour less than Bernie? The cry from Camp Weathervane is that "Bernie won't get it done" yet none of her supporters can explain how Hillary will get anything done either especially considering she is the most polarizing figure in politics. Republicans hate the woman and you can say whatever you want but that doesn't change facts. Hillary won't get a damn thing done because day 1 the GOP will begin impeachment proceedings. They've said as much already. Wake up.

The other thing is that POTUS candidates come in high. Think of it as a flea market. You dicker for things. Bernie & Hillary are both coming in with their high numbers. Hillary's $12/hr will be $8.95 in the end. Nobody can survive on that.

Hillary's policies are conservative in nature. It is what it is but a pat on the back doesn't pay rent for millions.
believe me, there's a whole lot of patting on the back going on & it's disgusting how Hillary supporters make fun of someone who is fighting for the less fortunate.

You want me and others to vote for a woman who we don't trust and can't even fight for those who are protesting low wages all over the country? Really? REALLY?

[CrowCityDem]

108. That is beyond stupid.

We're disagreeing on the best way to move forward, and you go and smear one side as being Republicans. You know, the people who are actively trying to reverse every bit of progress made in the last century.

Yeah, that's totally accurate. [/snark]

Can you honestly say that, for instance, someone who wants to raise the minimum wage to $12 in some places and $15 in others is THE SAME as a party that has no problem completely eliminating the concept altogether?

When you say things that ridiculous, anything salient you might have to say gets swept under the tidal wave of wrongness.

[JoePhilly]

131. + 100

[betsuni]

146. Agree. So beyond stupid there should be a new word for it.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

52. Not to worry. Hillary will "recapture" all of us if she takes the nomination.

I don't effing think so.

[chillfactor]

53. I will so happy when the primary season is over....

I am sick and tired of Hillary and Bernie supporters behaving like two-year-olds throwing temper-tantrums...

[DisgustipatedinCA]

68. It's different this time.

If Hillary gets the nomination, as expected, sure, you'll see things simmer down at DU--due to TOS. You'll see a few people thrown off the board, but it will mostly quiet down.

However, that will represent an artificial tamping-down of actual opinion. The rest of the world isn't under such restrictions, and I think you'll see a lot of people deciding they're not going to support any of the corrupted candidates.

[Puglover]

96. Quiet down?

It'll be a ghost town. A creepy tedious echo chamber. And those that dare criticize Hillary will be tos'ed.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

97. Right. And DU will be a little false-reality bubble. Some people will be shocked come November.

[Tommy2Tone]

54. I agree a 100%

I can't stand Bernie or his fans.

[pinebox]

59. Good

because we can't stand you or Hillary either.

[oldandhappy]

58. I have friends supporting clinton. We just do not talk about it.

[RunInCircles]

74. Corruption vs Integrity / War vs Peace / Wall Street vs People

Pope Francis talks about the globalization of indifference and calls it evil.
There is at least one email where Hillary inquired about who she was meeting that had contributed to the Clinton Foundation so she could thank them. So Hillary kept abreast of who contributed and who did not. Then she worked to approve arms sales for countries that had contributed to the foundation. That is corruption, it may not be illegal anymore given Justice Alito's supreme court decision, but it is still corruption. Hillary's record as a war hawk is very well documented. Hillary sure changed her tune on the bankruptcy bill once wall street started giving her money. Hillary intervened to settle an IRS investigation into UBS after they paid her husband so tax evaders names would not need to be released. These place Hillary firmly on the side of wall street.
Hilary supporters actually know all of this or they should but they are indifferent to this behavior.
Many actually applaud her for being so effective at getting rich.
It is not that I don't like Hillary supporters it is just that I don't understand their indifference to the suffering of others.
It is a complicated world and there are many dangerous moving pieces in it, so I kind of get some of the fear that leads one to support a war hawk. The Honduras coup was clearly allowing death just to shield her buddies from paying slightly more for labor. Then sending the kids back to their deaths to teach those awful parents a lesson. That I don't understand at all. When you Hillary supporters are indifferent to this behavior it makes me sad inside that my hopes for a slightly better more just world are disillusions.
But I don't hate you. I am just saddened that we are not more concerned about treating others as we wish to be treated.

[JoePhilly]

101. Ah, the smell of self-righteousness in the monring.

[2banon]

113. Excellent discussion point, RIC.

[UMTerp01]

83. I see this as being true

Thats why I typically say I like Bernie but many of his supporters can stay the F*** out of my face. My interactions with Hillary supporters haven't been as bad, but they are usually older and so I'm not dealing with the whole millenial hyperactive kind of stans. But make no doubt, there are some Hillary supporters who can stay the F*** out of my face too.

But I still say its not as bad as it was in '08. There was a lot of animosity from Hillary supporters to Obama supporters and a lot of racial shit because Obama is Black.

[BernieforPres2016]

93. I don't doubt that the writer accurately describes the hatred at the debate

We see it every day here and on Twitter and other social media. But the writer tries to stand in the middle without picking a side and says it is going to be bad for the Democratic Party. The author wants everybody on both the Bernie and Hillary sides to take the loyalty oath. Sorry, it ain't going to happen.

[bemildred]

95. I think that's his point, it ain't happening. nt

[creon]

121. Then live with the consequences.

This is a free country; you have the right to vote for whomever you wish.
You can stay home if you want.
It is none of my business who you vote for.

I am going to vote for the Democratic Party nominee. Whether it be Sanders or Clinton.
I am not the fan of any politician, never have been, never will be.

Clinton is not the empress of the evil empire, who will move the WH to Wall Street.
Sanders is not the messiah who will purge the world of demons.

Both are career establishment politicians.
Politicians are mere mortals. None of them are any better or worse than any common citizen.

Ask your self this:
why do I project such virtue upon an ordinary politician like Sanders?
why do I project such evil upon an ordinary politician like Clinton?
What have either one of them done to deserve such adulation or hatred?

[creon]

114. Please exclude me from this animosity.

People need to chill.
Sanders and Clinton are both career professional politicians.
Clinton is not some evil whatever who has done - supposedly - some awful and corrupt "stuff". Whatever that "stuff" may be.
She is a politician.
That is just rhetoric.

Sanders is not some savior or messiah who will defenestrate the thieves in the temple.
That is just rhetoric.
He is a politician.

Clinton and Sanders do not disagree on all that much. There is no logical reason for fans of one to dump buckets of filth on the candidate that they decided to hate.
But, since when did logic have anything to do with it?

[2banon]

118. huh?

you said:

Clinton is not some evil whatever who has done - supposedly - some awful and corrupt "stuff". Whatever that "stuff" may be.

Have you deliberately avoided Goldman Sachs transcripts, TPP, Fracking, Honduras, deregulations which enabled 2008 Financial Crises, just to name a few matters of awful corrupted "stuff" ? Does your eyes glaze over, or assume it's all just a vast right wing conspiracy?

[creon]

122. You made my point.

Thank you for proving my point

[2banon]

124. Pray Tell!

You asserted there's very little difference between Hillary and Bernie, which is a rather absurd assertion (in itself), and attempted to assert that there isn't any "stuff" relevant to issues of highly consequential questions of corruption, as if it were all fiction.

maybe you need to clarify a bit more, or not.

[creon]

133. I cannot help you

sorry

[Lucinda]

138. Eh...Two of my favorite people on this planet are Bernie supporters.

Crap at DU, and partisans in the audience at a debate are, fortunately, not reflective of the party as a whole.

[Trenzalore]

140. I have no real problem with the Sanders Supporters I personally know

Wish they would limit themselves to 5 Sanders post a day on Facebook thought.

[LaurenG]

141. Bullshit.

They don't want each others candidate to win. I love my friends even though they want a different candidate to win.

[messiah]

142. Because It's progressives vs conservatives

right vs left.

[Dems to Win]

145. I don't hate the 2 real-life Hillary supporters I know

They both sincerely believe that Hillary has a better chance of winning in the fall. I strongly disagree with that, but I respect their choice.

I've said a lot of negative stuff about Hillary (and Bill), but I truly don't have a grudge against her supporters. They think they are supporting the candidate with the best chance to win in the fall, as do I.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

151. visceral about being there

i see this also

This month I have been in three large crowds of Colorado Democrats

visceral

all call for unity by speakers are given a tepid response

Today the super delegate issue was more than just visceral

[Vattel]

156. Given how dirty Hillary has been in this campaign, I don't see how she could be pissed at Bernie

[EndElectoral]

157. Afraid the divide is too deep. It's essentially New Deal vs Third Way. Doesn't bode well for GE.