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Grown2Hate

(2,005 posts)
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:53 PM Oct 2012

Lawrence, LAWRENCE! I love ya, man... but REALLY?

Lawrence O'Donnell on the Last Word encouraging 3rd party voting in states that are "in the bag" one way or another.

I get the premise, but we can't afford to lose ANY VOTES in ANY STATE.

Bad move, in my opinion. 3rd parties need to be built from the GROUND UP, not from the top down once every 4 years.

IMHO.

56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Lawrence, LAWRENCE! I love ya, man... but REALLY? (Original Post) Grown2Hate Oct 2012 OP
We need as many votes in the blue states to win a popular vote as well as electoral vote victory. WI_DEM Oct 2012 #1
You're right -- we seem to have been talking about this in terms of one OR the other -- gateley Oct 2012 #52
Yeah, again, another reason not to watch MSNBC except for Krystal Ball lol GranholmFan Oct 2012 #2
I had to turn it off, it made me so angry. drm604 Oct 2012 #3
I know that was the stupiedest thing he has ever done. What an ass. demgrrrll Oct 2012 #4
Who's signing his paycheck? Blue Owl Oct 2012 #5
I saw that too Politicalboi Oct 2012 #6
Agreed. It's not good to take the efforts of others with a free ride on their work. It's just plane patrice Oct 2012 #7
MSNBC is really doing everything they can to destroy the Democratic Party RomneyLies Oct 2012 #8
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing... BlueDemKev Oct 2012 #9
With friends like this, who needs enemies? LisaL Oct 2012 #10
Fuck third parties. They gave us Bush. nt onehandle Oct 2012 #11
Lawrence just showed the "537 Votes" from the Obama Campaign. It made me angry at the '00 election.. AaronMayorga Oct 2012 #16
After the horror of the Bush years, Dawson Leery Oct 2012 #17
To be fair, he did say you'd be crazy to do so in a battleground state, citing Nader in FL in Grown2Hate Oct 2012 #19
Exactly. LisaL Oct 2012 #23
That doesn't matter. You NEVER see 3rd party out doing the actual grunt work of patrice Oct 2012 #33
Agree, however they don't even care about the votes, they just want some financial support. n/t FSogol Oct 2012 #46
It's frustrating; they think being more or less right is all that it takes & if they work with patrice Oct 2012 #47
Just let the popular vote go to a Republican loser in the Electorial College. gordianot Oct 2012 #12
Bad Idea! Lawrence should retract that statement. hrmjustin Oct 2012 #13
The Green Party is being built from the ground up see this list LiberalElite Oct 2012 #14
Impressive. I'd say that's a good start. It will take YEARS to get viability in statewide/national Grown2Hate Oct 2012 #18
Democrats are better hrmjustin Oct 2012 #20
Democrats ARE better. When it comes to the nuts and bolts of how things happen. Green is out in lala patrice Oct 2012 #34
Post removed Post removed Oct 2012 #22
unless we have instant runoff voting, third parties are pointless and self-defeating Adenoid_Hynkel Oct 2012 #27
He said what? ffr Oct 2012 #15
Yeah, hasn't he heard about that whole Popular Vote thing..and the Cha Oct 2012 #21
Contact MSNBC > Lawrence ODonnell page link: patrice Oct 2012 #24
It worked. I sent in a complaint. hrmjustin Oct 2012 #28
Rachel upset me too katmondoo Oct 2012 #25
Let's HOPE they're trying to motivate us to get our asses out and vote? (at least Rachel... don't Grown2Hate Oct 2012 #30
What good does it do to build up a third party, even in a 'safe' state? Adenoid_Hynkel Oct 2012 #26
Agreed! ProudProgressiveNow Oct 2012 #29
This is what we get from the few Democrats on Cable News? Unreal Thrill Oct 2012 #31
Dumb Dumb Dumb. nevergiveup Oct 2012 #32
+1 nsd Oct 2012 #37
Plus, the third party candidates are a joke, a waste of a vote n/t flamingdem Oct 2012 #35
It's actually BAD for 3rd parties. We agree with their platforms, but they themselves are parasites patrice Oct 2012 #38
There is ONE exception to this. southerncrone Oct 2012 #36
Absolutely right. TN screwed the pooch on that one. :( NT Grown2Hate Oct 2012 #39
We didn't just shoot ourselves in the foot; we shot ourselves in the head. southerncrone Oct 2012 #42
Sometimes a buffoon with a nice name can win the primary. LisaL Oct 2012 #43
Yes, of course. LisaL Oct 2012 #40
I don't even agree with this. drm604 Oct 2012 #44
In some local races there is no democrat running. LisaL Oct 2012 #48
In that case of course you can't vote Democrat and have to choose the best candidate that is running drm604 Oct 2012 #49
He is completely unacceptable. southerncrone Oct 2012 #50
Keep in mind he's not a Democrat, he's a practical European socialist or whatever. tarheelsunc Oct 2012 #41
I was reminded of the time Keith Olberman said, he never voted in elections FSogol Oct 2012 #45
I watch LO sporadically. Can't take the nightly Rush clips. What's that all about? Tarheel_Dem Oct 2012 #51
LO reversed himself on Friday's show ffr Oct 2012 #53
I knew he'd do that! flamingdem Oct 2012 #55
He is not stupid! defacto7 Oct 2012 #54
Ultimately pulled the trigger for President Obama. I'll take it. :) NT Grown2Hate Oct 2012 #56
 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
6. I saw that too
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:56 PM
Oct 2012

And I thought he was talking crazy. I would think Raygun won Ca, in 80. I already voted here in Ca and I voted for Obama. Obama lost here in Bakersfield in the primaries.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
7. Agreed. It's not good to take the efforts of others with a free ride on their work. It's just plane
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:56 PM
Oct 2012

Last edited Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:57 PM - Edit history (1)

unjust and THAT's bad not only for everyone, but also for 3rd party building.

 

RomneyLies

(3,333 posts)
8. MSNBC is really doing everything they can to destroy the Democratic Party
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:57 PM
Oct 2012

They aren't even pretending any more.

BlueDemKev

(3,003 posts)
9. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing...
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:57 PM
Oct 2012

I mean, I live in a deep red state, but the fact remains is that the only poll that truly matters is the one on Election Day. Encouraging liberals to vote for left-wing third-party fringe candidates will only cost us, maybe not this time but in the next election cycle. Ralph Nader was buoyed by his showing in the '96 election, so that he ran again in 2000...with disastrous consequences for the Democratic Party and the entire nation.

Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
17. After the horror of the Bush years,
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:03 PM
Oct 2012

I have NO intention of giving any third party candidates for President my vote.

Grown2Hate

(2,005 posts)
19. To be fair, he did say you'd be crazy to do so in a battleground state, citing Nader in FL in
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:06 PM
Oct 2012

2000. Still... just not good practice in GENERAL. Take NOTHING for granted, goddamnit. NOTHING.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
23. Exactly.
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:13 PM
Oct 2012

We should give him a piece of our mind.
There are lots of states that are close, even if they are blue.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
33. That doesn't matter. You NEVER see 3rd party out doing the actual grunt work of
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:43 PM
Oct 2012

grassroots organizing. They're just along for a free ride when it's time to vote. I actually like Green Party policies, but I don't do anything for them, because they aren't about DOING anything concrete.

My longstanding experience of the Green Party here is that it's all hat and no cattle, looking for a free ride at the last minute on the vote, without doing the basic ground-work, at the bottom of the heap, of grassroots issue activism. Most of the time, they do little more than put on their little workshops and panels and tell everyone how wrong everyone else is and how right they are and then make a big fuss when it comes to the vote to scalp off as many voters as they can.

With the exception of Libertarians this election cycle, 3rd parties are small and therefore do not believe in the importance of doing the fundamental ground work of organizing. Apparently they don't believe that the work of a few people is worth doing, so they are like parasites on the activism of others.

I agree with them in principle, but in practice, until they start showing up to do some of the work . . . fuck 'em!

patrice

(47,992 posts)
47. It's frustrating; they think being more or less right is all that it takes & if they work with
Thu Oct 25, 2012, 10:06 PM
Oct 2012

anyone else that makes them "wrong".

They're leadership around here is STILL quite hierarchical, very uni-directional; I suppose that's the drive toward finances higher up the political food-chain, climes that provide token respect, but no substantial commitment because it's more than a little obvious that Greens are more ideology than functional productive real politik. I have been to dozens of their meeting and have never seen an authentic attempt at horizontal empowerment and all of the risk that entails. They go through the liturgy of new-agey motions without explicitly giving complete autonomy and support for activation at the "lowest" most dis-empowered levels and they don't know what to do when someone pushes. It's a club; their internal relationships are good, deep from being together a long time, but too self absorbed, kind of agoraphobic.

gordianot

(15,226 posts)
12. Just let the popular vote go to a Republican loser in the Electorial College.
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:58 PM
Oct 2012

Think there is disrespect now?

LiberalElite

(14,691 posts)
14. The Green Party is being built from the ground up see this list
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:58 PM
Oct 2012
http://www.gp.org/elections/officeholders/index.php

They don't just trot out a presidential candidate every 4 years and then do nothing. But the MSM doesn't cover them so....

Grown2Hate

(2,005 posts)
18. Impressive. I'd say that's a good start. It will take YEARS to get viability in statewide/national
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:04 PM
Oct 2012

office, however.

You're right; the MSM does NOT cover this.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
34. Democrats ARE better. When it comes to the nuts and bolts of how things happen. Green is out in lala
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:46 PM
Oct 2012

land.

All blow and no daily discipline for the go.

Response to LiberalElite (Reply #14)

 

Adenoid_Hynkel

(14,093 posts)
27. unless we have instant runoff voting, third parties are pointless and self-defeating
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:21 PM
Oct 2012

fact of the matter is, we have a winner-take-all, two-party system.
As a result, the better a third party does, the more likely the candidate who least represents your side winning is.

ffr

(22,649 posts)
15. He said what?
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:00 PM
Oct 2012

No. No. No.

M$M is all about TV ratings and advertising revenue. MSNBC does fine work the rest of the year, but their encouragement to Democrats to peel votes off, after all the hard grassroots work we're doing, is sickening.

Cha

(295,943 posts)
21. Yeah, hasn't he heard about that whole Popular Vote thing..and the
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:10 PM
Oct 2012

Millions in the South who are voting Romney Ryan AND Against Themselves 'cause their Brainwashed?

katmondoo

(6,454 posts)
25. Rachel upset me too
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:17 PM
Oct 2012

Talking about a tie Electoral Vote going to the House Speaker. Why is MSNBC trying to get us depressed

Grown2Hate

(2,005 posts)
30. Let's HOPE they're trying to motivate us to get our asses out and vote? (at least Rachel... don't
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:31 PM
Oct 2012

see how Lawrence does that with this 3rd party push).

 

Adenoid_Hynkel

(14,093 posts)
26. What good does it do to build up a third party, even in a 'safe' state?
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:19 PM
Oct 2012

All it does is give them ballot lines and infrastructure to be a spoiler down the road

Thrill

(19,178 posts)
31. This is what we get from the few Democrats on Cable News? Unreal
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:32 PM
Oct 2012

Can you imagine Oreliy saying some stupid bullshit like this to Republicans?

nevergiveup

(4,744 posts)
32. Dumb Dumb Dumb.
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:34 PM
Oct 2012

If Obama wins the electoral college but loses the popular vote his mandate will be shot. The msm will become obsessed with Romney's popular vote win and it is all they will talk about for the next two years.

nsd

(2,406 posts)
37. +1
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:58 PM
Oct 2012

Exactly right. We want to get Obama a mandate. Congressional Republicans are going to fight him tooth and nail on everything -- sequester, Bush tax cuts, ACA implementation, everything -- just as they have for the last four years. He's going to need all the ammunition he can get. We want both the electoral college and the popular vote.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
38. It's actually BAD for 3rd parties. We agree with their platforms, but they themselves are parasites
Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:01 AM
Oct 2012

on the organizing efforts of others. Showing up at voting time with flakey candidates and without having done any of the most basic work of organizing. That's damaging to everyone, but most especially to 3rd partiers who are NEVER going to grow any kind of party without committing, at minimum, to the daily grind of concrete issue activism.

southerncrone

(5,506 posts)
36. There is ONE exception to this.
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:54 PM
Oct 2012

In TN today, I voted for the Green Party candidate for Senate.

As many may know, the teabaggers slipped one of their own into our primary (Clayton). He WON because he was first on the list. (I don't know what actually happened that we didn't get our primary candidates better exposure.)
The state Dem party has disavowed him. So, instead of NOT voting against Corker, I made the best choice I had.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
40. Yes, of course.
Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:03 AM
Oct 2012

Some democratic candidates slip by in primaries that even democratic party doesn't support.
In that case, it's perfectly fine to vote green.

drm604

(16,230 posts)
44. I don't even agree with this.
Thu Oct 25, 2012, 03:57 PM
Oct 2012

You need a Democratic majority in the Senate to control the agenda. Unless you're certain of that majority, you need to vote for the Democrat regardless of how odious he or she is. Voting for the Green candidate will just help put the Republican in office.

drm604

(16,230 posts)
49. In that case of course you can't vote Democrat and have to choose the best candidate that is running
Thu Oct 25, 2012, 11:03 PM
Oct 2012

southerncrone

(5,506 posts)
50. He is completely unacceptable.
Sat Oct 27, 2012, 01:14 AM
Oct 2012

The Green Candidate whom I voted for is more Dem than lots of Dems in office now. The Dem guy would be more likely to caucus w/the teabagger Republicans. He was a sneak in to test their idea that if a candidate is listed first on the ballot, they have a better chance of being elected (cuz we have so many uninformed voters.). Most of the ballots in TN have the Republican listed first in ALL races. Not alphabetically, or w/incumbment listed first. More Rovian slime trickery!

Here is some info on the Dem candidate (make sure to read the second & third pages):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/2012s-worst-candidate-with-mark-clayton-tennessee-democrats-hit-bottom/2012/10/22/77da926e-1b8a-11e2-a146-ccabc9c85c53_story_1.html


Here is info on the Green Candidate:

http://martinpleasant.com/about/

http://martinpleasant.com/platform/

Now. What would YOU do if you were in our shoes?

FSogol

(45,368 posts)
45. I was reminded of the time Keith Olberman said, he never voted in elections
Thu Oct 25, 2012, 04:06 PM
Oct 2012

because he felt it was a conflict of interest. Total , imo.

Plus O'Donnell said he has only voted for a winning Presidential candidate once. No support for 6 out of these 7-8: Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton twice, Gore, Kerry, Obama?

Tarheel_Dem

(31,212 posts)
51. I watch LO sporadically. Can't take the nightly Rush clips. What's that all about?
Sat Oct 27, 2012, 01:29 AM
Oct 2012

Frankly, if I wanted to listen to Rush Limbaugh spout sexist, racist buffoonery, I have a radio. I don't tune in to indulge LO's rush obsession. And if it's not Rush, it's O'Reilly. I think it's intellectually lazy, and I know Lawrence is nobody's fool.

Drop the Rush crap Lawrence, and stop promoting third party b.s. while you're at it.

ffr

(22,649 posts)
53. LO reversed himself on Friday's show
Sat Oct 27, 2012, 02:03 AM
Oct 2012

Votes during his show for Obama, while former California state governor Gray Davis looked on.

Can't even stick with his own advice: thank goodness.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
54. He is not stupid!
Sat Oct 27, 2012, 02:06 AM
Oct 2012

If he is telling people not to vote or to vote 3rd party, he is doing it for a reason. That makes him the enemy as far as I'm concerned. There is NO middle ground right now and anything less than a vote for Obama is a vote for Romney.

Lawrence O'Donnell is not on our side. He is a Romney man, no matter what his argument is or his twisted rhetoric is playing on. He either recants or he is a right winger. And that is that.

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