2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWho's qualified and who isn't? This chart helps clarify the issue.
I'm probably the last to see this chart, but I think it does a good job of laying out where the candidates for the Democratic nomination stand. It's kind of amazing how Bernie has been so right so often on the big issues while Hillary has been so consistently wrong. There's no reason I can see why this pattern won't continue if either of them becomes president.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/article/2015/sep/02/11-examples-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-hol/
The fact-checker's guide to viral graphics contrasting Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders
By Will Cabaniss on Wednesday, September 2nd, 2015 at 10:35 a.m.
After a New York Times analysis found Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton voted in synch 93 percent of the time during their two overlapping Senate years, Sanders supporters have been pushing back on the notion that the two leading Democratic presidential candidates are largely the same.
Several readers asked us to look at graphics circulating on Twitter, Facebook and Reddit that attempt to differentiate Sanders and Clinton by highlighting differences in their voting records.
Weve already looked at claims about the two candidates donors, which is mentioned in the lower half of this chart in particular. But we wondered if the claims about their voting records and policy positions were correct.
We found that many of the charts points are correct, though some either fail to capture Clintons flip-flops over the years or over-simplified her stance on issues where her public comments are really thin.
more...
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Very useful information. Thank you, Karmadillo!
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)UBS is a Swiss bank that is enjoying better days, thanks to the US taxpayer and a number of key US political leaders.
Sen. Clinton Helped UBSand Then the Bank Funneled Millions to the Clintons.
Hillary Helps a Bankand Then It Funnels Millions to the Clintons
The Wall Street Journals eyebrow-raising story of how the presidential candidate and her husband accepted cash from UBS without any regard for the appearance of impropriety that it created.
by CONOR FRIEDERSDORF, The Atlantic, JUL 31, 2015
The Swiss bank UBS is one of the biggest, most powerful financial institutions in the world. As secretary of state, Hillary Clinton intervened to help it out with the IRS. And after that, the Swiss bank paid Bill Clinton $1.5 million for speaking gigs. The Wall Street Journal reported all that and more Thursday in an article that highlights huge conflicts of interest that the Clintons have created in the recent past.
The piece begins by detailing how Clinton helped the global bank.
A few weeks after Hillary Clinton was sworn in as secretary of state in early 2009, she was summoned to Geneva by her Swiss counterpart to discuss an urgent matter. The Internal Revenue Service was suing UBS AG to get the identities of Americans with secret accounts, the newspaper reports. If the case proceeded, Switzerlands largest bank would face an impossible choice: Violate Swiss secrecy laws by handing over the names, or refuse and face criminal charges in U.S. federal court. Within months, Mrs. Clinton announced a tentative legal settlementan unusual intervention by the top U.S. diplomat. UBS ultimately turned over information on 4,450 accounts, a fraction of the 52,000 sought by the IRS.
Then reporters James V. Grimaldi and Rebecca Ballhaus lay out how UBS helped the Clintons. Total donations by UBS to the Clinton Foundation grew from less than $60,000 through 2008 to a cumulative total of about $600,000 by the end of 2014, according to the foundation and the bank, they report. The bank also joined the Clinton Foundation to launch entrepreneurship and inner-city loan programs, through which it lent $32 million. And it paid former president Bill Clinton $1.5 million to participate in a series of question-and-answer sessions with UBS Wealth Management Chief Executive Bob McCann, making UBS his biggest single corporate source of speech income disclosed since he left the White House.
The article adds that there is no evidence of any link between Mrs. Clintons involvement in the case and the banks donations to the Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation, or its hiring of Mr. Clinton. Maybe its all a mere coincidence, and when UBS agreed to pay Bill Clinton $1.5 million the relevant decision-maker wasnt even aware of the vast sum his wife may have saved the bank or the power that she will potentially wield after the 2016 presidential election.
SNIP...
As McClatchy noted last month in a more broadly focused article that also mentions UBS, Ten of the worlds biggest financial institutionsincluding UBS, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup and Goldman Sachshave hired Bill Clinton numerous times since 2004 to speak for fees totaling more than $6.4 million. Hillary Clinton also has accepted speaking fees from at least one bank. And along with an 11th bank, the French giant BNP Paribas, the financial goliaths also donated as much as $24.9 million to the Clinton Foundationthe familys global charity set up to tackle causes from the AIDS epidemic in Africa to climate change.
CONTINUED...
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/hillary-helps-a-bankand-then-it-pays-bill-15-million-in-speaking-fees/400067/
About UBS Wealth Management
It's Buy Partisan
After his exit from the US Senate, Phil Gramm found a job at Swiss bank UBS as vice chairman. He later brought on former President Bill Clinton. What a coincidence, they are the two key figures in repealing Glass-Steagal. Since the New Deal it was the financial regulation that protected the US taxpayer from the Wall Street casino. Oh well, what's a $16 trillion bailout among friends?
It's a Buy-Partisan Who's Who:
President William J. Clinton
President George W. Bush Heh heh heh.
Robert J. McCann
James Carville
John V. Miller
Paula D. Polito
Anthony Roth
Mike Ryan
John Savercool
SOURCE: http://financialservicesinc.ubs.com/revitalizingamerica/SenatorPhilGramm.html
Some of why DUers and ALL voters should care about Phil Gramm.
A chart can't put in all the details, nor list all the issues where there are difference. For the above example, it might have room for:
Hillary: Friendly with Phil Gramm and his work at UBS.
Bernie: Not Friendly with Phil Gramm and his work at UBS.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)"Unqualified" in the legal sense, as Drumpf sees Cruz, or just a filthy political smear based on a disagreement in policy?
Care to elaborate?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)For those interested in what I think makes a person qualified for the public office: Integrity.
Larry Summers: Goldman Sacked
By Greg Palast
Reader Supported News, September 16, 2013
Joseph Stiglitz couldn't believe his ears. Here they were in the White House, with President Bill Clinton asking the chiefs of the US Treasury for guidance on the life and death of America's economy, when the Deputy Secretary of the Treasury Larry Summers turns to his boss, Secretary Robert Rubin, and says, "What would Goldman think of that?"
Huh?
Then, at another meeting, Summers said it again: What would Goldman think?
A shocked Stiglitz, then Chairman of the President's Council of Economic Advisors, told me he'd turned to Summers, and asked if Summers thought it appropriate to decide US economic policy based on "what Goldman thought." As opposed to say, the facts, or say, the needs of the American public, you know, all that stuff that we heard in Cabinet meetings on The West Wing.
Summers looked at Stiglitz like Stiglitz was some kind of naive fool who'd read too many civics books.
CONTINUED...
http://www.gregpalast.com/larry-summers-goldman-sacked/
Is Stiglitz elaborate enough?
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Save the bullshit about teaching me.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)No bullshit: just the facts. Otherwise, you'd argue them. Seeing how you don't or can't is your problem.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)...that Sanders wasn't referring to the legal sense of the term. While "unfit" or "ill-suited" might have been a better choice of terms, his meaning was still clear.
And he's absolutely right...
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)... does nothing to address being "qualified."
Sanders stepped in a steaming pile of shit with his comment. With every passing week, Sanders gets smaller and smaller in my rear view mirror.
Bernie is getting desperate.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Karmadillo
(9,253 posts)it may be others haven't. Given there are a fair number of duplicates on the board these days, why does this particular one bother you so much? Uncomfortable with the contrast it provides?
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)criminals, and generally pandering to the owning class does address one's qualification for president.
And BTW this list could be MUCH longer.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)And the other posters nailed it. Why bother to try to tell you that which you don't want to acknowledge?
Glad you're not still pretending to be undecided or neutral, though.
You're not, are you?
Marr
(20,317 posts)kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)Therefore calling into the question the rest of the numbers.
rgbecker
(4,826 posts)Do you have some other numbers you would like to share with the rest of us?
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)How about the OP not post shit as factual when it is in fact not. If something is dated then typically there is a date on it to show information has changed.
CentralCoaster
(1,163 posts)I don't know of any Super PAC money used on the Sanders campaign.
Remember to know the difference between a PAC and a Super PAC.
TIA
https://ballotpedia.org/PACs_and_Super_PACs
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)How about check yoself?
merrily
(45,251 posts)on this board. He has nothing to do with it. He does not direct them nor does his campaign accept money from them.
If the nurse's union and/or a super PAC affiliated with the nurses' union want to see him President, that is up to them. It's their First Amendment right to support him if they wish. He can no more stop them can he can stop me from spending my money to support him.
Again, get your facts straight--all the facts, not just the ones you think support your debunked claim.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)just bc you don't like it doesn't make it true. The only one pushing debunked talking points is you.
merrily
(45,251 posts)can even legally coordinate with it. Or so her PAC claims.
Again, this was gone thru months ago on this board.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/05/12/how-a-super-pac-plans-to-coordinate-directly-with-hillary-clintons-campaign/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/128067911
Given your transparency page, I will not expect an apology, though I am certainly owed one.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)My transparency page only shows that their are a ridiculous amount of racist assholes on DU.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Then again, your transparency page, with its eleven hides, many of them as crass and/or false as your post 49 to me, speaks volumes all on its own.
SamKnause
(13,091 posts)Her supporters do not care about her poor judgement.
Her supporters do not care about her constantly changing her positions.
Her supporters support the establishment and she is the establishment candidate.
Her supporters do not care about the obscene amount of money in the political system.
This enables their candidate to stay in the race.
Her supporters do not care about the numerous lies she has told, and that have been documented repeatedly.
Her supporters think any criticism of their candidate is sexism.
Her supporters do not care about the destructive and failed policies her husband enacted
and that she campaigned hard for to get passed.
Her supporters do not care that she sold fracking to the world.
Facts have no place in any discussions about their candidate.
They continue to make excuse after excuse.
merrily
(45,251 posts)bigtree
(85,986 posts)Karmadillo
(9,253 posts)you chose not to.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/sep/22/fact-checking-viral-graphic-critical-bernie-sander/
<edit>
We gave the full fact-check treatment to one of the 12 claims listed, but we decided to briefly address the other 11, classifying them into four broad categories -- largely accurate, some truth but missing context, mostly incorrect, and inaccurate.
We sought input from both the Sanders and Clinton camps, but neither provided us with any information, so we found our own. Heres what we discovered.
more...
bigtree
(85,986 posts)...is a universal understanding of what 'qualified' means.
I'd offer that neither chart makes that case, nor does Sanders' list. They're just another opportunity for politicking, rather than a serious determination of qualifications.
I suspect that's why this tiff won't resolve that question for most voters, outside of the observers' own bias. We're well into the silly season.
Karmadillo
(9,253 posts)of what 'qualified' means." Hillary would seem to agree since she was suggesting Bernie's positions on certain issues suggest he's not qualified. The chart I posted seems pretty helpful in figuring out who is qualified and who is not. The one you posted, per Politifact, not so much.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)that Sanders supports workers, which we all knew anyway.
bigtree
(85,986 posts)...not progressive.
brooklynite
(94,495 posts)ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)onecaliberal
(32,816 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)ecstatic
(32,681 posts)SMH
senz
(11,945 posts)on their candidate?
Faux pas
(14,659 posts)I don't care how many times this may or may not have been posted, it's a great reminder that she is not for we the people.
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)essay at link:
http://michaelmoore.com/MyEndorsementOfBernie/