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Karmadillo

(9,253 posts)
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 08:38 AM Apr 2016

Who's qualified and who isn't? This chart helps clarify the issue.

I'm probably the last to see this chart, but I think it does a good job of laying out where the candidates for the Democratic nomination stand. It's kind of amazing how Bernie has been so right so often on the big issues while Hillary has been so consistently wrong. There's no reason I can see why this pattern won't continue if either of them becomes president.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/article/2015/sep/02/11-examples-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-hol/

The fact-checker's guide to viral graphics contrasting Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders

By Will Cabaniss on Wednesday, September 2nd, 2015 at 10:35 a.m.



After a New York Times analysis found Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton voted in synch 93 percent of the time during their two overlapping Senate years, Sanders’ supporters have been pushing back on the notion that the two leading Democratic presidential candidates are largely the same.

Several readers asked us to look at graphics circulating on Twitter, Facebook and Reddit that attempt to differentiate Sanders and Clinton by highlighting differences in their voting records.


We’ve already looked at claims about the two candidates’ donors, which is mentioned in the lower half of this chart in particular. But we wondered if the claims about their voting records and policy positions were correct.

We found that many of the chart’s points are correct, though some either fail to capture Clinton’s flip-flops over the years or over-simplified her stance on issues where her public comments are really thin.

more...

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Who's qualified and who isn't? This chart helps clarify the issue. (Original Post) Karmadillo Apr 2016 OP
Handy reference! Octafish Apr 2016 #1
You must be brand new here to have missed its previous 100s of postings. Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #3
Good point: A chart can't do justice for some Big Stories. Take UBS. Octafish Apr 2016 #11
So, is that part of the "unqualified" equation? Just curious what "unqualified" means to Berners. Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #16
Why waste my time trying to teach you what you don't want to know? Octafish Apr 2016 #18
pfft. I asked you a specific question about "unqualified" and you couldn't be bothered. Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #20
No, I bothered to answer you in a way you didn't want to hear. Octafish Apr 2016 #21
Ah, so you did answer: She is not really unqualified, this is just a filthy political smear. Thanks! Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #22
many thought these were qualified SoLeftIAmRight Apr 2016 #54
The OP shows clearly who is qualified and who is not. That's why you tried to dismiss it. merrily Apr 2016 #32
It could hardly have been more obvious to any objective person... Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #26
Clintons skirting the law like a Wall Street Bank FreakinDJ Apr 2016 #31
Nothing substantive to post about the OP? merrily Apr 2016 #30
Your chart, beside being a mere reposting of something we've seen thousands of times at DU, Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #2
Amen jehop61 Apr 2016 #4
His fans have been desperate from the outset. This is the first sign of pure panic from the Sanders. Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #6
Uh huh. He's the one who got desperate after Wisconsin. Suuuuure he was. merrily Apr 2016 #34
Oh yeah, seven straight wins will do it to ya! senz Apr 2016 #55
You and the mouse? As I noted, I haven't seen it and Karmadillo Apr 2016 #9
Wow. Say goodnight, Gracie. Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #10
The discomfort could not be more apparent. merrily Apr 2016 #35
Some of us believe that a lifetime of conservative votes, flip-flopping, taking money from Doctor_J Apr 2016 #23
At least that's an answer. More than some of your colleagues were willing to put forth. Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #24
Contrary to your pretense, the OP says a lot on that score. merrily Apr 2016 #36
It most certainly does. It speaks to judgement and sincerity. /nt Marr Apr 2016 #41
kick kgnu_fan Apr 2016 #5
Very goo data K&R pdsimdars Apr 2016 #7
Well the SuperPAC raised funds for BS is wrong, blatantly. giftedgirl77 Apr 2016 #8
Wrong or Dated? rgbecker Apr 2016 #13
Wrong or dated? giftedgirl77 Apr 2016 #15
Feel free to back up your claim that the data is wrong or dated. CentralCoaster Apr 2016 #27
National Nurses United.... giftedgirl77 Apr 2016 #46
If you're referring to the PAc associated with the nurses' union, get your fact straight. merrily Apr 2016 #37
It's a SuperPac. giftedgirl77 Apr 2016 #47
Unilike HIllary's super PACs, this is not HIS super pac. Your claim has been debunked many times merrily Apr 2016 #48
Holy fuck HRC can't have a SuperPAC. giftedgirl77 Apr 2016 #49
Actually, she can and does. And, because of a technicality in the law involving the internet, she merrily Apr 2016 #50
Please.... giftedgirl77 Apr 2016 #51
No links, no apology AND no slink--speak VOLUMES about your posts and your transparency page. merrily Apr 2016 #52
Her supporters do not care about facts. SamKnause Apr 2016 #12
Some of the replies on this thread amply prove your point. merrily Apr 2016 #38
there are charts and there are charts bigtree Apr 2016 #14
I was willing to post the Politifact analysis with mine. Not surprisingly, Karmadillo Apr 2016 #17
what you're missing here bigtree Apr 2016 #19
Positions on major issues would seem to be part of a "universal understanding Karmadillo Apr 2016 #43
Interesting. It seems that in that graphic, the few parts that aren't lies just confirm Doctor_J Apr 2016 #28
yeah, but in a Steve King sort of way bigtree Apr 2016 #33
I see...FDR wasn't "qualified" to be President? brooklynite Apr 2016 #25
It's a no brainer. ViseGrip Apr 2016 #29
yes amborin Apr 2016 #53
Thanks for the chart onecaliberal Apr 2016 #39
yes, excellent chart amborin Apr 2016 #57
I see what the problem is now. Bernie and his followers don't know the definition of "qualified." ecstatic Apr 2016 #40
You mean they don't know the dirty, underhanded games that are being played senz Apr 2016 #56
Kickin' Faux pas Apr 2016 #42
Karmadillo, check out Michael Moore's endorsement TheDormouse Apr 2016 #44
K&R amborin Apr 2016 #45

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
11. Good point: A chart can't do justice for some Big Stories. Take UBS.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 08:57 AM
Apr 2016

UBS is a Swiss bank that is enjoying better days, thanks to the US taxpayer and a number of key US political leaders.

Sen. Clinton Helped UBS—and Then the Bank Funneled Millions to the Clintons.





Hillary Helps a Bank—and Then It Funnels Millions to the Clintons

The Wall Street Journal’s eyebrow-raising story of how the presidential candidate and her husband accepted cash from UBS without any regard for the appearance of impropriety that it created.


by CONOR FRIEDERSDORF, The Atlantic, JUL 31, 2015

The Swiss bank UBS is one of the biggest, most powerful financial institutions in the world. As secretary of state, Hillary Clinton intervened to help it out with the IRS. And after that, the Swiss bank paid Bill Clinton $1.5 million for speaking gigs. The Wall Street Journal reported all that and more Thursday in an article that highlights huge conflicts of interest that the Clintons have created in the recent past.

The piece begins by detailing how Clinton helped the global bank.

“A few weeks after Hillary Clinton was sworn in as secretary of state in early 2009, she was summoned to Geneva by her Swiss counterpart to discuss an urgent matter. The Internal Revenue Service was suing UBS AG to get the identities of Americans with secret accounts,” the newspaper reports. “If the case proceeded, Switzerland’s largest bank would face an impossible choice: Violate Swiss secrecy laws by handing over the names, or refuse and face criminal charges in U.S. federal court. Within months, Mrs. Clinton announced a tentative legal settlement—an unusual intervention by the top U.S. diplomat. UBS ultimately turned over information on 4,450 accounts, a fraction of the 52,000 sought by the IRS.”

Then reporters James V. Grimaldi and Rebecca Ballhaus lay out how UBS helped the Clintons. “Total donations by UBS to the Clinton Foundation grew from less than $60,000 through 2008 to a cumulative total of about $600,000 by the end of 2014, according to the foundation and the bank,” they report. “The bank also joined the Clinton Foundation to launch entrepreneurship and inner-city loan programs, through which it lent $32 million. And it paid former president Bill Clinton $1.5 million to participate in a series of question-and-answer sessions with UBS Wealth Management Chief Executive Bob McCann, making UBS his biggest single corporate source of speech income disclosed since he left the White House.”

The article adds that “there is no evidence of any link between Mrs. Clinton’s involvement in the case and the bank’s donations to the Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation, or its hiring of Mr. Clinton.” Maybe it’s all a mere coincidence, and when UBS agreed to pay Bill Clinton $1.5 million the relevant decision-maker wasn’t even aware of the vast sum his wife may have saved the bank or the power that she will potentially wield after the 2016 presidential election.

SNIP...

As McClatchy noted last month in a more broadly focused article that also mentions UBS, “Ten of the world’s biggest financial institutions––including UBS, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup and Goldman Sachs––have hired Bill Clinton numerous times since 2004 to speak for fees totaling more than $6.4 million. Hillary Clinton also has accepted speaking fees from at least one bank. And along with an 11th bank, the French giant BNP Paribas, the financial goliaths also donated as much as $24.9 million to the Clinton Foundation––the family’s global charity set up to tackle causes from the AIDS epidemic in Africa to climate change.”

CONTINUED...

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/hillary-helps-a-bankand-then-it-pays-bill-15-million-in-speaking-fees/400067/



About UBS Wealth Management

It's Buy Partisan

After his exit from the US Senate, Phil Gramm found a job at Swiss bank UBS as vice chairman. He later brought on former President Bill Clinton. What a coincidence, they are the two key figures in repealing Glass-Steagal. Since the New Deal it was the financial regulation that protected the US taxpayer from the Wall Street casino. Oh well, what's a $16 trillion bailout among friends?



It's a Buy-Partisan Who's Who:

President William J. Clinton
President George W. Bush Heh heh heh.
Robert J. McCann
James Carville
John V. Miller
Paula D. Polito
Anthony Roth
Mike Ryan
John Savercool

SOURCE: http://financialservicesinc.ubs.com/revitalizingamerica/SenatorPhilGramm.html

Some of why DUers and ALL voters should care about Phil Gramm.



A chart can't put in all the details, nor list all the issues where there are difference. For the above example, it might have room for:

Hillary: Friendly with Phil Gramm and his work at UBS.

Bernie: Not Friendly with Phil Gramm and his work at UBS.
 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
16. So, is that part of the "unqualified" equation? Just curious what "unqualified" means to Berners.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 09:04 AM
Apr 2016

"Unqualified" in the legal sense, as Drumpf sees Cruz, or just a filthy political smear based on a disagreement in policy?

Care to elaborate?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
18. Why waste my time trying to teach you what you don't want to know?
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 09:20 AM
Apr 2016

For those interested in what I think makes a person qualified for the public office: Integrity.



Larry Summers: Goldman Sacked

By Greg Palast
Reader Supported News, September 16, 2013

Joseph Stiglitz couldn't believe his ears. Here they were in the White House, with President Bill Clinton asking the chiefs of the US Treasury for guidance on the life and death of America's economy, when the Deputy Secretary of the Treasury Larry Summers turns to his boss, Secretary Robert Rubin, and says, "What would Goldman think of that?"

Huh?

Then, at another meeting, Summers said it again: What would Goldman think?

A shocked Stiglitz, then Chairman of the President's Council of Economic Advisors, told me he'd turned to Summers, and asked if Summers thought it appropriate to decide US economic policy based on "what Goldman thought." As opposed to say, the facts, or say, the needs of the American public, you know, all that stuff that we heard in Cabinet meetings on The West Wing.

Summers looked at Stiglitz like Stiglitz was some kind of naive fool who'd read too many civics books.

CONTINUED...

http://www.gregpalast.com/larry-summers-goldman-sacked/



Is Stiglitz elaborate enough?
 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
20. pfft. I asked you a specific question about "unqualified" and you couldn't be bothered.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 09:42 AM
Apr 2016

Save the bullshit about teaching me.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
21. No, I bothered to answer you in a way you didn't want to hear.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 09:50 AM
Apr 2016

No bullshit: just the facts. Otherwise, you'd argue them. Seeing how you don't or can't is your problem.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
22. Ah, so you did answer: She is not really unqualified, this is just a filthy political smear. Thanks!
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 09:51 AM
Apr 2016
 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
26. It could hardly have been more obvious to any objective person...
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 09:54 AM
Apr 2016

...that Sanders wasn't referring to the legal sense of the term. While "unfit" or "ill-suited" might have been a better choice of terms, his meaning was still clear.

And he's absolutely right...

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
2. Your chart, beside being a mere reposting of something we've seen thousands of times at DU,
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 08:44 AM
Apr 2016

... does nothing to address being "qualified."

Sanders stepped in a steaming pile of shit with his comment. With every passing week, Sanders gets smaller and smaller in my rear view mirror.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
6. His fans have been desperate from the outset. This is the first sign of pure panic from the Sanders.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 08:46 AM
Apr 2016

Karmadillo

(9,253 posts)
9. You and the mouse? As I noted, I haven't seen it and
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 08:52 AM
Apr 2016

it may be others haven't. Given there are a fair number of duplicates on the board these days, why does this particular one bother you so much? Uncomfortable with the contrast it provides?

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
23. Some of us believe that a lifetime of conservative votes, flip-flopping, taking money from
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 09:51 AM
Apr 2016

criminals, and generally pandering to the owning class does address one's qualification for president.

And BTW this list could be MUCH longer.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
36. Contrary to your pretense, the OP says a lot on that score.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 10:10 AM
Apr 2016

And the other posters nailed it. Why bother to try to tell you that which you don't want to acknowledge?

Glad you're not still pretending to be undecided or neutral, though.


You're not, are you?

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
8. Well the SuperPAC raised funds for BS is wrong, blatantly.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 08:52 AM
Apr 2016

Therefore calling into the question the rest of the numbers.

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
15. Wrong or dated?
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 09:00 AM
Apr 2016

How about the OP not post shit as factual when it is in fact not. If something is dated then typically there is a date on it to show information has changed.

 

CentralCoaster

(1,163 posts)
27. Feel free to back up your claim that the data is wrong or dated.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 10:02 AM
Apr 2016

I don't know of any Super PAC money used on the Sanders campaign.

Remember to know the difference between a PAC and a Super PAC.

TIA

https://ballotpedia.org/PACs_and_Super_PACs

merrily

(45,251 posts)
48. Unilike HIllary's super PACs, this is not HIS super pac. Your claim has been debunked many times
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 03:33 PM
Apr 2016

on this board. He has nothing to do with it. He does not direct them nor does his campaign accept money from them.

If the nurse's union and/or a super PAC affiliated with the nurses' union want to see him President, that is up to them. It's their First Amendment right to support him if they wish. He can no more stop them can he can stop me from spending my money to support him.

Again, get your facts straight--all the facts, not just the ones you think support your debunked claim.

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
49. Holy fuck HRC can't have a SuperPAC.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 03:44 PM
Apr 2016

just bc you don't like it doesn't make it true. The only one pushing debunked talking points is you.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
50. Actually, she can and does. And, because of a technicality in the law involving the internet, she
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 03:47 PM
Apr 2016

can even legally coordinate with it. Or so her PAC claims.

Again, this was gone thru months ago on this board.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/05/12/how-a-super-pac-plans-to-coordinate-directly-with-hillary-clintons-campaign/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128067911

Given your transparency page, I will not expect an apology, though I am certainly owed one.

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
51. Please....
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 04:04 PM
Apr 2016

My transparency page only shows that their are a ridiculous amount of racist assholes on DU.


merrily

(45,251 posts)
52. No links, no apology AND no slink--speak VOLUMES about your posts and your transparency page.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 04:08 PM
Apr 2016

Then again, your transparency page, with its eleven hides, many of them as crass and/or false as your post 49 to me, speaks volumes all on its own.

SamKnause

(13,091 posts)
12. Her supporters do not care about facts.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 08:58 AM
Apr 2016

Her supporters do not care about her poor judgement.

Her supporters do not care about her constantly changing her positions.

Her supporters support the establishment and she is the establishment candidate.

Her supporters do not care about the obscene amount of money in the political system.
This enables their candidate to stay in the race.

Her supporters do not care about the numerous lies she has told, and that have been documented repeatedly.

Her supporters think any criticism of their candidate is sexism.

Her supporters do not care about the destructive and failed policies her husband enacted
and that she campaigned hard for to get passed.

Her supporters do not care that she sold fracking to the world.

Facts have no place in any discussions about their candidate.

They continue to make excuse after excuse.










Karmadillo

(9,253 posts)
17. I was willing to post the Politifact analysis with mine. Not surprisingly,
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 09:09 AM
Apr 2016

you chose not to.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/sep/22/fact-checking-viral-graphic-critical-bernie-sander/

<edit>

We gave the full fact-check treatment to one of the 12 claims listed, but we decided to briefly address the other 11, classifying them into four broad categories -- largely accurate, some truth but missing context, mostly incorrect, and inaccurate.

We sought input from both the Sanders and Clinton camps, but neither provided us with any information, so we found our own. Here’s what we discovered.

more...

bigtree

(85,986 posts)
19. what you're missing here
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 09:33 AM
Apr 2016

...is a universal understanding of what 'qualified' means.

I'd offer that neither chart makes that case, nor does Sanders' list. They're just another opportunity for politicking, rather than a serious determination of qualifications.

I suspect that's why this tiff won't resolve that question for most voters, outside of the observers' own bias. We're well into the silly season.

Karmadillo

(9,253 posts)
43. Positions on major issues would seem to be part of a "universal understanding
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 11:46 AM
Apr 2016

of what 'qualified' means." Hillary would seem to agree since she was suggesting Bernie's positions on certain issues suggest he's not qualified. The chart I posted seems pretty helpful in figuring out who is qualified and who is not. The one you posted, per Politifact, not so much.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
28. Interesting. It seems that in that graphic, the few parts that aren't lies just confirm
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 10:02 AM
Apr 2016

that Sanders supports workers, which we all knew anyway.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
56. You mean they don't know the dirty, underhanded games that are being played
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 12:43 AM
Apr 2016

on their candidate?

Faux pas

(14,659 posts)
42. Kickin'
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 10:20 AM
Apr 2016

I don't care how many times this may or may not have been posted, it's a great reminder that she is not for we the people.

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