Bernie and his fans want to take us in a "socially conservative, economically liberal" direction.

[DanTex]

Last edited Thu Apr 7, 2016, 07:50 AM - Edit history (1)

No thanks. I get that there is some well-deserved backlash against the "socially liberal, economically conservative" trend, but selling out on social issues like guns and immigration while downplaying the significance of others, as Bernie has done, is not the solution.

For example, Bernie is happy going to Liberty University and saying, look, lets put our social issue disagreements aside, and talk about inequality, but he'd never go to the Club for Growth and say, look, let's put our economic disagreements aside, and talk about social issues.

The Democratic Party of which I am a proud member cares about both social and economic issues. And I'd like to keep it that way.


Edited: replaced "Bob Jones University" with "Liberty University".

[JackInGreen]

1. Oh dan...shit like this is why I CAN'T block you

some of the folks in your camp are good, almost too good, pros. You my friend are awful at this, and a never ending source of comedy.



Please...

[DanTex]

2. Personal attack! Yay!

[JackInGreen]

4. That was a compliment Dan

I think it's truly a great that you try day after day to make false accusations like this, I really do, I mean, kudos to you man. If you can't take that at face value I don't know what to say.

[revbones]

126. It does take some kind of talent indeed...

[FBaggins]

99. Says the guy who just called the overwhelming majority of DUers conservatives?

Yeah... that's persuasive.

[beam me up scottie]

13. He does try so awfully hard, doesn't he?

I love the daily dose of fail.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

119. he still has not responded to this

[beam me up scottie]

120. I thoroughly enjoyed the responses to the op, an epic smackdown of a ridiculous premise.

Poorly thought out, factually incorrect, edited but still absurd.

I love Bernistas, always up for a bit of sport.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

121. yep

but it gets old - shooting fish in a barrel

[beam me up scottie]

122. You're right, calling the op's faulty logic 'sport' is a stretch.

A 5th grader could have poked holes in it without even trying.

[Barack_America]

132. +1.

Seriously rofl over here.

[jfern]

3. That's total bullshit. Shame on you.

[CalvinballPro]

5. Libertarians pretending to be progressive for Bernie

That's where his support comes from. Real progressives would not be as hateful and ignorant as Sanders supporters reveal themselves to be when they insult women and minorities for backing Clinton.

We know where such nonsense comes from, because we've seen it from Republicans for years now.

[jfern]

8. LOL, you and the OP are arguing opposite things

"socially conservative, economically liberal" is the opposite of libertarian.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Forget it

He's rolling.

[Ken Burch]

10. In the real world, Sanders supporters are progressive.

The libertarian trolls are only in the cyberworld. They don't account for Bernie's margin of victory anywhere.

[DanTex]

11. You can tell just from the makeup of Bernie fans here on DU.

He gets heavy support from DUers whose favorite groups are the Men's Rights group and the Guns group, and also from the crowd that a few years ago was denying that there is such a thing as white male privilege. It's the revenge of the Angry White Dude, telling the world that what matters is his paycheck, and not the problems faced by minorities or other marginalized groups.

[Warren DeMontague]

18. We can tell much from the people whose transparency pages are visible, too.

Yes, yes we can.

[DanTex]

19. Yes, you can tell that most jurors are Bernie fans.

[Warren DeMontague]

20. You realize that people can actually read the hidden posts, dont you?

Makes the complaining here about "hateful" comments all the funnier. Or ironic.

[DanTex]

21. Yes, I do. And the ones that aren't Bernie fans will see just how absurdly biased the juries are.

This is the reason that Skinner is revamping the whole system. It's a good idea, but it doesn't work in a charged partisan environment.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. keep telling yourself that

If it makes you feel better!

[DanTex]

26. Great line! Bernie fans are so snappy!

[Warren DeMontague]

29. Oh, we're all manner of awful things

We must be, since I keep hearing about it from people who want to change the subject from actual political issues.

[DanTex]

31. Change the subject, huh. You mean like bringing up transparency pages out of the blue?

[Warren DeMontague]

34. Yeah, i changed the subject from your bargle with transparency dude number two up there

About how sanders supporters are shambling mounds of evil socially conservative (while simultaenously "libertarian&quot gun fetishizing, mens rights activists or some equally nonsensical yammer.

[DanTex]

36. You changed the subject from issues to my transparency page.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. Your "issue" was how awful certain people on DU are, according to you.

The visible transparency page is the walking defintion of what we call a "glass house" in that regard.

[DanTex]

38. Not awful, just socially conservative. Which is why Bernie appeals to them.

Sticking up for white dudes who care more about their paycheck and less about social issues. You brought up the word "awful".

[Warren DeMontague]

41. And again, you're just making stuff up. Like your OP.

The guy you responded to was going on about "hateful" comments, which again is rich coming from someone with a big honkin transpo page.

It is ludicrous to suggest that sanders supports "social conservatism" when we have leaders like Debbie Wasserman Schultz voting to send medical marijuana users to prison and Sanders is the only presdiential candidate truly leading on the issue.

Or is sending the SWAT team to wheel granny off to prison for eating a pot brownie not "socially conservative" enough for you?

[DanTex]

44. I guess we have differing opinions.

Voting for the gun immunity bill and against Brady is flat out social conservatism (and, yes, I've heard the ridiculous excuses for both). Referring to immigrants as "cheap labor" and going on Lou Dobbs to immigrant bash is also social conservatism. And even on issues where Bernie is nominally liberal, they very clearly take a back seat to his economic agenda.

And if you want to talk about supporters, go check how many recs "Stockholm Syndrome" got.

[Warren DeMontague]

52. I dont want to talk about supporters, because "supporters" arent on the ballot

I suppose im wasting my time reminding you that you brought them up first here, not me.

As for guns.. It is also worth noting that Americans have differing opinions on guns--- Like American Hillary Clinton in 2016, as opposed to American Hillary Clinton in 2008.

However, her vaunted political pragmatism combined with the "pivoting" her people cant wait to get on with (and we would have, too, if it werent for bernie sanders and those meddling kids!).... Well, i suspect that, should she be the nominee as we move into a "practical, realpolitik" electoral college situation, gun control will get quietly but decisively dropped from the roster of shit HRC talks about.

I could be wrong, but I suspect I wont be.

[DanTex]

61. But you just went after me, a supporter, for my transparency page. What's that about?

Yeah, get that Americans have "differing views" on guns. They have "differing views" on all issues, including your beloved marijuana.

I'm not naive, I don't think we're going to see much progress on guns with either president. But the same goes for every single part of Bernie's agenda, and in fact even more so. By Bernie's own reckoning there were less than 10 votes in the Senate for single payer.

But the thing is, Bernie actually voted to give a special legal immunity to gun companies. Which is nuts, by the way. And he and his fans are actually trying to defend that vote. Oh, and incidentally, the PLCAA isn't something I just picked up on when I heard Bernie voted for it. Gun policy is something I know about, and I've known about PLCAA, and how bad it is, and how much the NRA wanted it, for many years. I had no idea that Bernie voted for it until the campaign.

[Warren DeMontague]

69. Yeah, like CA lt. Gov Gavin Newsom, Senator Jeff Merkeley and a majority of Americans

I think marijuana should be legal, fucking A yes I do.

So go ahead and sneer, hippie punch, make stoner jokes or otherwise attack me for that position, but pro tip--- you probably dont want to do it in a thread about how "socially conservative" the other team is compared to yours.

[DanTex]

72. And most Americans think guns should be registered.

But like you said, people have differing opinions.

[Warren DeMontague]

74. "Your beloved marijuana"

Thats funny. (Hell, i barely even touch the stuff anymore. Not like the old days!)

but..... You really sound like... Someone else, there.




Odd.

[DanTex]

76. It does seem to be your big issue, is it not?

[Warren DeMontague]

78. It IS a big issue right now, absolutely.

And I happen to live in a state that takes legalization seriously.

I realize it may not be on the radar east of the Mississippi or in Minnesota or wherever, but, ah

You know. 50 million people on the west coast will get listened to sooner or later.

[DanTex]

79. Fair enough. I'd say that guns are a big issue, given the 30,000 gun deaths every year.

For perspective, the total American death toll in Iraq and Afghanistan combined, since the start of the war, is less than 10,000.

[Bluenorthwest]

105. Over 30,000 Americans had died of AIDS without a word from Reagan and yet Hillary said this:

[Kalidurga]

133. Most gun deaths are suicides which IMO is a violent act so we can call it gun violence.

However when someone says 30,000 people are killed by guns every year I think it's to try to fool people into thinking that 30,000 people are murdered by someone other than themselves. I wish they wouldn't do that because a conversation about suicide prevention is just as important as the one about too many people being murdered by a person other than themselves.

[Warren DeMontague]

115. And you should know me well enough by now to know that i support reasonable firearms

Restrictions.

I mean, we're smart people. We both know who we're talking to, here.

Right?

I was appalled and horrified and devastated by Newtown, and I am a parent. Guns scare the crap out of me.

Its absurd that we have hyperbolic "thinka teh children" bullshit over pot brownies or naked boobs on HBO- or sex ed, birth control and abortion for that matter- when joe blow can basically walk in and buy an AR-15 at Walmart no questions asked.

That said, I think the people who think HRC is the candidate of the "subaltern" are likely to be disappointed by her, as is anyone who doesnt understand that the same "political pragmatism" they laud her for will mean federal gun control goes nowhere and is rarely mentioned once we "pivot" to the GE.

[Warren Stupidity]

46. Oh and by the way Sanders never spoke at Bob Jones University.

The whole op is transparently bullshit.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. Link to your venomous transparency page....mean, ugly hooligan politics

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=108373&sub=trans

[CentralMass]

25. We have have a government that created an environment with

about 46.5 million people living in poverty.the childhood povery rate is appalling.42.5% of Hispanic children, 38.5% of Black children. And upwards of 20% of white children are living in poverty.

Here is a link to a U.N. study on the link between poverty and racism.
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=13941&LangID=E
Here is a snippet from the article.

"
Poverty inextricably linked to discrimination and racism – UN Special Rapporteur

NEW YORK/GENEVA (4 November 2013) – UN Special Rapporteur on contemporary forms of racism Mutuma Ruteere on Monday emphasized that racial or ethnic minorities are disproportionately affected by poverty, with the lack of education, adequate housing and health care transmitting poverty from generation to generation.
In his report to the General Assembly, the Special Rapporteur focused on the inextricable link between racism and poverty, stressing that the continued socio-economic vulnerability of minorities is frequently the result of historical legacies, such as the impact of slavery and colonization, and state-sponsored discrimination. These historical imbalances continue to profoundly affect discriminated groups, causing successive generations to inherit the disadvantages of their predecessors.

“Discrimination based on racial, religious, ethnic, linguistic and also socio-economic factors exacerbates the vulnerability of these persons and groups,” Mr. Ruteere said. “The lack of participation of such groups in decision-making processes is also often the result of historical legacies.”

Discriminated groups, such as Afro-descendants, indigenous peoples, Roma, Dalits and migrants are especially affected by the different manifestations of poverty in the areas of economic and social rights such as education, adequate housing, and health care, as well as other rights including the right to work in just conditions, social security, food and water.

“Governments have the obligation to prevent marginalization, to ensure protection and to guarantee the enjoyment of human rights for all, including the right to education, the right to adequate housing, the right to health and the right to food and safe water,” the Special Rapporteur told the General Assembly.
He recommended that States review and redesign policies and programmes which may have a disproportionately negative effect on racial or ethnic minorities in view of their socio-economic vulnerability. States could then implement effective measures to improve the access of such groups to civil, cultural, economic, political and social rights."

- See more at: http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=13941&LangID=E#sthash.UoSJnqKP.dpuf

[Hortensis]

35. A home truth, DanTex. And Bernie is the white male choice.

"He gets heavy support from DUers whose favorite groups are the Men's Rights group and the Guns group, and also from the crowd that a few years ago was denying that there is such a thing as white male privilege. It's the revenge of the Angry White Dude, telling the world that what matters is his paycheck, and not the problems faced by minorities or other marginalized groups."

There are currently both a lot of conservative Democrats and normally GOP conservatives drawn to Sanders here on DU.

[HERVEPA]

86. You are so full of it your ---- --- -----

[jeff47]

110. It's cute you think libertarians are "economically liberal".

Demonstrates just how seriously we should take your OP.

Libertarians are socially liberal and economically conservative. They don't give a shit what you do in your bedroom, but also want to get rid of all business regulation.

Exactly the opposite as your claim in your OP.

It's almost like your only point was "Sanders BAD!!"

[hereforthevoting]

6. I don't see how he has sold out

Unlike some others he has been consistent.

For example, not making arms trades deals while propping up victims of murder at home for votes. Though that does sound economically conservative. Grab that gold, Queen!

[Thinkingabout]

17. Like selling out to the gun manufacturers for immunity, like selling out five

Times on the Brady Bill, the deaths in the US around 80 per day and he stands behind his votes, the D rating was not given to him because he voted against NRA desired laws.

[beam me up scottie]

23. "the D rating was not given to him because he voted against NRA desired laws"

Actually it was:

About NRA ratings

D "Anti-gun" supporter of "gun control legislation" who "can usually be counted on to vote wrong on key issues."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/nra-congress/

Bernie's been consistently pro-gun control since first elected.

[revbones]

127. "Selling out" typically means getting something in return.

What did Bernie get?

[Ken Burch]

7. Bernie is just as socially liberal as HRC-and unlike her, he has never appeased social conservatives

As she did by helping talk the party into ditching the poor, letting the cops do anything they wanted, ditching the gays and leaving the collective right-wing demonization of poor women with kids(and the demagogic right-wing equation of blackness with criminality, drug abuse and welfare fraud-all of which were, in truth, mostly white things) completely unchallenged in the Nineties. In that decade, she was liberal on nothing BUT choice(which, in isolation, was not worth accepting conservative policies on essentially everthing else).

If she did all of that once because she found it advantageous, we have no reason to trust her not to do any of that again.

[jfern]

9. Hillary just mentioned "the unborn child" and said pro lifers can be feminists

[floppyboo]

42. where did you hear that?

Awesome quote to add to the Clinton pandering or 'oops, your slip is showing' file.

[jfern]

47. They're both from a couple of days ago

It was "unborn person"
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/04/hillary-clinton-roundly-criticized-for-referring-to-the-unborn-as-a-person/

Pro-life can be feminist
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clinton-feminist-pro-life/story?id=38166581

[floppyboo]

60. saving to favorites - thanks! nt

[MgtPA]

82. I heard her say that live on The View

I believe it was yesterday or the day before. She definitely said it, though.

[scioto99]

124. Of course pro-lifers can be feminists. Is that even being debated?

The people I know who are pro-life are not evil, mustache=twirling woman haters.

For example - a doctor friend, Catholic, a powerhouse and a brilliant woman who's as feminist as I am. She does happen to believe in Jesus and sacraments, etc, and she thinks that God injects a soul into every fertilized egg, and that abortion is a really bad thing. But how does that bar her from being a feminist? She's strong-willed; she leads the life she wants to lead; she's outspoken about everything (including her faith, like it or not); she's raising great inquisitive kids. Yup: feminist.

Or another friend - ex-Catholic, then atheist when I met her (now she's Muslim and she's changed a lot... I wouldnt call her feminist anymore, sadly, but she sure was in the old days before she swallowed the quran whole) - who was against abortion because her single mom almost aborted her, but didn't. So it was kinda personal to her that "every fetus deserves a chance" or something. And that's her business. That's her view on the world. It was one of the very few things we couldn't see eye to eye on, but I respected her for it - and it didn't disqualify her from being an asskicking feminist and the sister I'd always wanted.

So: good for Clinton.

You think Sanders would argue? You think he'd say, "No, ladies, lemme tell ya who's allowed to be feminist and who isn't. I got a checklist right here and I'll tell you if you qualify." Please.

[jfern]

131. Feminists don't ban women from making a choice

[beam me up scottie]

12. "I believe in a woman's rights...the right of a woman to control her own body..."

Bernie Sanders’s Liberty University speech, annotated

By Chris Cillizza September 14, 2015

And let me start off by acknowledging what I think all of you already know. And that is the views that many here at Liberty University have and I, on a number of important issues, are very, very different. I believe in a woman's rights....

And the right of a woman to control her own body.

I believe gay rights and gay marriage.

Your candidate is the one who's been socially conservative - not coming around on marriage equality until 2013 and even admitting recently that she would be willing to compromise on abortion.

Bernie went to LU and the first thing he did was tell them that my rights and lgbt people's rights were of the utmost importance to him. Try to stick to the easily verifiable facts, Dan, otherwise you look like you're just making up stories.

[CentralMass]

14. What a joke. Of course you know know that you are being disingenuous.

Last edited Thu Apr 7, 2016, 08:18 AM - Edit history (1)

Here is a link to Bernie on the issues from ontheissues.org. Read it and weep Dan

http://www.ontheissues.org/Bernie_Sanders.htm

[Fumesucker]

15. K&R for the lulz

The Greatest Show On Earth...

[Warren DeMontague]

16. He disagrees with Debbie Schultz's support for putting medical marijuana users in prison

Good god man, how much more "socially conservative" can this Sanders fiend get?

[cherokeeprogressive]

27. Classic Comedy Gold.

[DanTex]

28. IIRC, you are pro-gun, is that correct? This is what I was talking about.

[cherokeeprogressive]

30. LOL

[floppyboo]

56. gun rights vs. gun control

Do you think the 2nd amendment should be thrown out, or that laws will solve the problem?

[DanTex]

62. If we adopted European style gun laws, we'd see a huge drop in gun violence.

It's actually kind of weird that Bernie, of all people, who looks to Western Europe for policy ideas, is so blind to the fact that our rates of gun violence are astronomically higher than theirs.

[floppyboo]

73. Problem is, there are no gun 'rights' built into their constitutions

so comparing the effectiveness of their laws might not be possible. Big problem for sure

[DanTex]

75. First of all, until the 5-4 Heller decision, the 2A was always interpreted with respect

to militias. The idea that 2A precludes gun control is a relatively recent right-wing re-interpretation.

But even post-Heller there is plenty of constitutional room for strong gun laws. I live in NYC, and here the law makes it extremely difficult to actually get a handgun. NYCs gun laws are constitutional, but are on par with or even stronger than in a lot of areas in Western Europe.

Problem is, it's hard to stop guns coming on from out of state. But if the whole nation adopted NYCs gun laws, there would be a big drop in gun violence, and it would be constitutional even under the Heller interpretation. It won't happen because of politics, not the constitution.

[floppyboo]

100. do you think that re-interpretation can be walked back?

please excuse this tangent from your OP. I suppose the gun thread would be more appropriate. Not sure I want my name associated with it though

[DanTex]

103. Sure, if we get some liberal justices. The Heller decision was written by Scalia, in fact.

But like I said, as far as national gun policy, it makes no difference. The political barriers are much more limiting than the constitutional ones. The laws in Chicago and DC got overturned on constitutional grounds, but from what I've read, they managed to patch up their laws and still keep it pretty difficult to get a handgun in either city.

Nationally, we can't even get universal background checks passed. A national gun registration system, which is what we really need, would have no constitutional problems, but politically it's a total pipe dream.

[floppyboo]

104. It's good to dream! Don't give up! n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

77. And Here's Hilllary talking about guns, 2008 Valpariso Indiana:

“I disagree with Sen. Obama’s assertion that people in our country cling to guns and have certain attitudes about trade and immigration simply out of frustration.
You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught me how to shoot when I was a little girl. You know, some people now continue to teach their children and their grandchildren. It’s part of culture. It’s part of a way of life. People enjoy hunting and shooting because it’s an important part of who they are. Not because they are bitter.”
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/12/clinton-touts-her-experience-with-guns/

The story at the link perfectly captures how she lost 2008. It's great stuff.

[Motown_Johnny]

32. Exactly which social issues are you referring to? n/t

[drm604]

33. Hahahahahahah

[Warren Stupidity]

39. Hi Dan can you post a link to back up your claim about Bernie's "speech at Bob Jones University"?

I can't seem to find him saying anything like that. I'm sure you didn't make up his "speech at Bob Jones University". You would never do anything like that. Maybe my google foo is weak. Can you help me out?

[DanTex]

40. My mistake, it was Liberty University. Thanks, I'll edit the OP.

[Warren Stupidity]

43. So we can agree then that your op was in fact entirely made up bullshit.

Thanks so much Dan!

[DanTex]

45. Actually, I mistook one conservative university for another.

[Warren Stupidity]

51. Actually you just made shit up. You couldn't even get the venue right.

Here ya go Dan, Bernie's Speech at Liberty U. Thanks so much for playing "Post That Bullshit" this morning.

Thank you, President Falwell and David. Thank you very much for inviting my wife, Jane, and me to be with you even this morning. We appreciate the invitation very much.

And let me start off by acknowledging what I think all of you already know. And that is the views that many here at Liberty University have and I, on a number of important issues, are very, very different. I believe in a woman's rights....

And the right of a woman to control her own body.

I believe gay rights and gay marriage.

Those are my views, and it is no secret. But I came here today, because I believe from the bottom of my heart that it is vitally important for those of us who hold different views to be able to engage in a civil discourse.

Too often in our country -- and I think both sides bear responsibility for us -- there is too much shouting at each other. There is too much making fun of each other.

Now, in my view, and I say this as somebody whose voice is hoarse, because I have given dozens of speeches in the last few months, it is easy to go out and talk to people who agree with you. I was in Greensboro, North Carolina, just last night. All right. We had 9,000 people out. Mostly they agreed with me. Tonight, we're going to be in Manassas, and have thousands out and they agree with me. That's not hard to do. That's what politicians by and large do.

We go out and we talk to people who agree with us.

But it is harder, but not less important, for us to try and communicate with those who do not agree with us on every issue.

And it is important to see where if possible, and I do believe it is possible, we can find common ground.

Now, Liberty University is a religious school, obviously.

And all of you are proud of that.

You are a school which, as all of us in our own way, tries to understand the meaning of morality. What does is mean to live a moral life? And you try to understand, in this very complicated modern world that we live in, what the words of the Bible mean in today's society.

You are a school which tries to teach its students how to behave with decency and with honesty and how you can best relate to your fellow human beings, and I applaud you for trying to achieve those goals.

Let me take a moment, or a few moments, to tell you what motivates me in the work that I do as a public servant, as a senator from the state of Vermont. And let me tell you that it goes without saying, I am far, far from being a perfect human being, but I am motivated by a vision, which exists in all of the great religions, in Christianity, in Judaism, in Islam and Buddhism, and other religions.


And that vision is so beautifully and clearly stated in Matthew 7:12, and it states, "So in everything, do to others what you would have them to do to you, for this sums up the war and the prophets." That is the golden rule. Do unto others, what you would have them do to you. That is the golden rule, and it is not very complicated.

Let me be frank, as I said a moment ago. I understand that the issues of abortion and gay marriage are issues that you feel very strongly about. We disagree on those issues. I get that, but let me respectfully suggest that there are other issues out there that are of enormous consequence to our country and in fact to the entire world, that maybe, just maybe, we do not disagree on and maybe, just maybe, we can try to work together to resolve them.

Amos 5:24, "But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream." Justice treating others the way we want to be treated, treating all people, no matter their race, their color, their stature in life, with respect and with dignity.

Now here is my point. Some of you may agree with me, and some of you may not, but in my view, it would be hard for anyone in this room today to make the case that the United States of America, our great country, a country which all of us love, it would be hard to make the case that we are a just society, or anything resembling a just society today.

In the United States of America today, there is massive injustice in terms of income and wealth inequality. Injustice is rampant. We live, and I hope all of you know this, in the wealthiest country in the history of the world.

But most Americans don't know that. Because almost all of that wealth and income is going to the top 1 percent.

You know, that is the truth. We are living in a time -- and I warn all of you if you would, put this in the context of the Bible, not me, in the context of the Bible -- we are living in a time where a handful of people have wealth beyond comprehension. And I'm talking about tens of billions of dollars, enough to support their families for thousands of years. With huge yachts, and jet planes and tens of billions. More money than they would ever know what to do with.


But at that very same moment, there are millions of people in our country, let alone the rest of the world, who are struggling to feed their families. They are struggling to put a roof over their heads, and some of them are sleeping out on the streets. They are struggling to find money in order to go to a doctor when they are sick.

Now, when we talk about morality, and when we talk about justice, we have to, in my view, understand that there is no justice when so few have so much and so many have so little.

There is no justice, and I want you to hear this clearly, when the top one-tenth of 1 percent -- not 1 percent, the top one-tenth of 1 percent -- today in America owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent. And in your hearts, you will have to determine the morality of that, and the justice of that.

In my view, there is no justice, when here, in Virginia and Vermont and all over this country, millions of people are working long hours for abysmally low wages of $7.25 an hour, of $8 an hour, of $9 an hour, working hard, but unable to bring in enough money to adequately feed their kids.

And yet, at that same time, 58 percent of all new income generated is going to the top 1 percent. You have got to think about the morality of that, the justice of that, and whether or not that is what we want to see in our country.

In my view, there is no justice when, in recent years, we have seen a proliferation of millionaires and billionaires, while at the same time the United States of America has the highest rate of childhood poverty of any major country on Earth. How can we? I want you to go into your hearts, how can we talk about morality, about justice, when we turn our backs on the children of our country?

Now you have got to think about it. You have to think about it and you have to feel it in your guts. Are you content? Do you think it's moral when 20 percent of the children in this country, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, are living in poverty? Do you think it is acceptable that 40 percent of African American children are living in poverty?

In my view, there is no justice, and morality suffers when in our wealthy country, millions of children go to bed hungry. That is not morality and that is not in my view ... what America should be about.


In my view, there is no justice when the 15 wealthiest people in this country in the last two years -- two years -- saw their wealth increase by $170 billion. Two years. The wealthiest 15 people in this country saw their wealth increase by $170 billion.

My friends, that is more wealth acquired in a two-year period than is owned by the bottom 130 million Americans. And while the very, very rich become much richer, millions of families have no savings at all. Nothing in the bank. And they worry every single day that if their car breaks down, they cannot get to work, and if they cannot get to work, they lose their jobs.

And if they lose their jobs, they do not feed their family. In the last two years, 15 people saw $170 billion increase in their wealth, 45 million Americans live in poverty. That in my view is not justice. That is a rigged economy, designed by the wealthiest people in this country to benefit the wealthiest people in this country at the expense of everybody else.

In my view, there is no justice when thousands of Americans die every single year because they do not have any health insurance and do not go to a doctor when they should. I have talked personally to doctors throughout Vermont and physicians around the country. And without exception, they tell me there are times when patients walk into their office very, very sick and they say, why didn't you come in here when you're sick? And the answer is, I do not have any health insurance or I have a high deductible or I thought the problem would get better. And sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes they die because they lack health insurance.

That is not justice. That is not morality. People should not be dying in the United States of America when they are sick.

What that is, is an indication that we are the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care to all people as a right, and I think we should change that.

And I think -- I think that when we talk about morality, what we are talking about is all of God's children. The poor, the wretched, they have a right to go to a doctor when they are sick.


You know, there is a lot of talk in this country from politicians about family values. You have all heard that. Well, let me tell you about a family value.

In my view, there is no justice when low income and working class mothers are forced to separate from their babies one or two weeks after birth and go back to work because they need the money that their jobs provide. Now I know everybody here -- we all are, maybe in different ways, but all of us believe in family values.

Jane and I have four kids. We have seven beautiful grandchildren. We believe in family values. But it is not a family value when all of you know that the most important moments and time of a human being's life is the first weeks and months after that baby is born. That is the moment when mothers bonds with the baby; gets to love and know her baby -- dad is there as well. That is what a family is about. And those of you -- at least those of you who are parents -- more parents back here than there I suspect. You know what an unforgettable moment that is. What an important moment that is. And I want you to think, whether you believe it is a family value, that the United States of America is the only -- only -- major country on earth that does not provide paid family and medical leave.

Now in English, what that means is that all over the world when a woman has her baby she is guaranteed the right because society understands how important that moment is. She is guaranteed the right to stay home and get income in order to nurture her baby. And that is why I believe when we talk about family values that the United States government must provide at least 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave.

In my view there is no justice in our country when youth unemployment exists at tragically high levels. I requested a study last month from a group of economists. And what they told me is that 51 percent of African American high school graduates between the ages of 17 and 20 are unemployed or underemployed -- 51 percent.

We have in this country sufficient amounts of money to put more people in jail than any other country on earth. The United States has more people in jail than China; a communist authoritarian country.

But apparently we do not have enough money to provide jobs and education to our young people. I believe that's wrong.
I am not a theologian, I am not an expert on the Bible, nor am I a Catholic. I am just a United States senator from the small state of Vermont. But I agree with Pope Francis, who will soon be coming to visit us in the United States.

I agree with Pope Francis when he says, and I quote, "The current financial crisis originated in a profound human crisis, the denial of the primacy of the human person," and this is what he writes: "We have created new idols. The worship of the ancient golden calf has returned in a new and ruthless guise in the idolatry of money and the dictatorship of an impersonal economy lacking a truly human purpose," end of quote.

And the pope also writes, quote, "There is a need for financial reform along ethical lines that would produce in its turn an economic reform to benefit everyone. Money has to serve, not to rule," end of quote.

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Now those are pretty profound words, which I hope we will all think about. In the pope's view, and I agree with him, we are living in a nation and in a world, and the Bible speaks to this issue, in a nation and in a world which worships not love of brothers and sisters, not love of the poor and the sick, but worships the acquisition of money and great wealth. I do not believe that is the country we should be living in.

Money and wealth should serve the people. The people should not have to serve money and wealth. (APPLAUSE)

Throughout human history, there has been endless discussion. It is part of who we are as human beings, people who think and ask questions, endless discussion and debate about the meaning of justice and about the meaning of morality. And I know that here at Liberty University, those are the kinds of discussions you have every day, and those are the kinds of discussions you should be having and the kinds of discussions we should be having all over America.

I would hope, and I conclude with this thought, I would hope very much that as part of that discussion and part of that learning process, some of you will conclude that if we are honest in striving to be a moral and just society, it is imperative that we have the courage to stand with the poor, to stand with working people and when necessary, take on very powerful and wealthy people whose greed, in my view, is doing this country enormous harm.

Thank you all very much.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/09/14/bernie-sanders-liberty-university-speech-annotated/

[DanTex]

55. This attack of yours on me is in keeping with the level of dishonesty that Bernie fans have shown

throughout the campaign.

Obviously, I mistook one for another -- he did give a speech at a RW college, as everyone knows, and I just mixed the two up. It happens. But here you are trying to make a case out of this. It reminds me of people trying to defend Bernie's NRA votes, or his ludicrous economic projections, or the rest of his platform. It's laughable.

[Warren Stupidity]

58. Did you even bother to read the speech that you alleged proves his social conservatism?

No. Of course not. Why would you?

[DanTex]

66. If you want to keep discussing this, you're going to have to concede that your

attack on me was disingenuous, and that you obviously understand that I mixed up two right-wing institutions.

Because if you're going to keep calling me a liar over what we both know is a trivial mistake, I don't see how an honest discussion with you is possible.

[Bluenorthwest]

81. The problem is not your error about where the speech took place but your fabrications about what was

said.

[DanTex]

84. I'm being called a liar because I mixed up the university. And I think it's great.

I can't think of a better example of what the Bernie following is really about.

[Warren Stupidity]

93. No you clearly did not read the speech. You just made shit up.

You did so deliberately in order to "prove" your claim that Sanders is a social conservative. Your op is full of deliberate misstatements. Those are also known as lies. One who is a deliberate misstater can also be characterized as a liar, but I certainly did not call you that, as it would be rude to do so. Instead I and others have pointed out just how clearly dishonest, deliberately dishonest, transparently and obviously dishonest your op is.

[DanTex]

94. I did read the speech, and you decided to dishonestly attack me for a trivial mistake.

Don't worry, I'm used to this stuff from Bernie fans.

[Bluenorthwest]

68. That's the Liberty University Speech you make false claims about. Down thread I posted Hillary's

speech to Rick Warren's Saddleback Church for comparison. The problem with your OP is that you do not cite the speeches, do not quote them and you falsely characterize Bernie's words.
Your title uses "quotation marks" around words you are not quoting at all, you yourself are ascribing them to unstated others. That's not honest.

[DanTex]

70. Yeah, it's Liberty, not Bob Jones. And like I said, the fact that people are accusing me of lying

when I made a simple mistake is very indicative of the level of dishonesty that Bernie supporters have exhibited generally during this campaign.

[Bluenorthwest]

80. You misrepresent his entire speech, it's not just getting the location wrong your framing of the

speech is fully mendacious. He said the opposite of what you claim. I posted his speech at Liberty and Hillary's speech to Rick Warren's Saddleback Church so everyone here can see what's what and who is who.

Your OP is entirely dishonest as the links and quotes provided by me and others in this thread very clearly demonstrate. Attacking a Democratic candidate with lies.

[DanTex]

83. No I didn't. Like I said, can you imagine him going to the Club for Growth and saying, look,

I know we disagree about economic issues, but let's find common ground on social policy. Of course not. It's clear where his heart is, and where it isn't.

And then Bernie fans accuse me of lying because I mixed up one RW university with another. I'm actually glad that happened, because it illustrates how absurd things have gotten in the Bernie camp.

[Bluenorthwest]

85. Yes you did. I have quoted his opening and provided a link to the full text. He did not say anything

close to what you claim he said, in fact he said the opposite of what you claim. You are lying about what was said, it's that simple. Proof has been offered to you and you refuse to retract your false claims. Your OP title has words with quotation marks that are not a quote but just your characterization with some fake punctuation to lend it legitimacy it does not actually have.

Your claim: Bernie wants "socially conservative, economically liberal"

Bernie's opening: "And let me start off by acknowledging what I think all of you already know. And that is the views that many here at Liberty University have and I, on a number of important issues, are very, very different. I believe in a woman's rights....
And the right of a woman to control her own body.

I believe gay rights and gay marriage.

Those are my views, and it is no secret"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/09/14/bernie-sanders-liberty-university-speech-annotated/

[DanTex]

87. So you're ignoring the Club for Growth question, huh? Figures.

I would too if I didn't want to answer. You've got to protect that ideological bias, after all.

Yes, I read the transcript. The fact that he chooses to break bread with Liberty U and put their disagreements aside to discuss economic policy, but wouldn't dream of doing the same thing with an economically conservative group speaks volumes about where his priorities are.

BTW, since since I know the "Bernie fan way," let me pre-emptively point out that I don't mean that he literally broke a piece of bread in half with Liberty U. It's a metaphor.

[Bluenorthwest]

89. You cite false claims then you order me to play your 'what if' game? Let's stick to the facts.

It's about what was actually said compared to what you are claiming was said. He did go to Liberty, I would as well. Hillary went to antigay Prop 8 organizing Saddleback Church whose pastor Rick Warren calls LGBT pedophiles and such and she lavished praise on Rick and Mrs Rick and the congregation and spoke as a fellow believer in their same dogmas. She broke that bread, and I have of course provided quotes in this thread of what she said there.

So you bash Bernie for advocating progressive positions at Liberty but give HIllary a pass for going to Saddelback and playing 'I just love Rick' games with them? Not very consistent to say the least.....

[DanTex]

90. If you're going to play this dodging game, I don't see the point of trying to have an honest

discussion with you. Answer, please.

[Bluenorthwest]

91. It's you that is dodging every fact and citation presented to you. I'm not going to discuss your

fantasies, Dan, that's your business. This is an election. We have facts and records to look at. Your desire to play role playing games about 'What if Hillary went to Fight Club and talked about Fight Club' is a cheap shot at distraction from your bogus and fully mendacious OP.
You have not even explained the "quotation marks" in your title. Who are you quoting?

You have not commented at all about Hillary's love fest at Saddleback Chruch
"You know, Rick has helped so many people with his lessons for a 40-day spiritual journey. But he knows those 40 days are just the beginning. My own faith journey is approaching a half a century, and I know how far I still have to go."

That's not a 'what if'. That's what she said.

[DanTex]

92. Fair enough. Not the first time a Bernie fan has dodged an uncomfortable question and

opted for personal attacks instead.

[Bluenorthwest]

95. You reek with the stank of staight white male privilege when you exploit important issues in this

mendacious and disingenuous way. You need to delete your fiction filled OP. It's all false. You and your candidate are the social conservatives in this race, Hillary only recently stopped agreeing with her dear friend Rick Warren that same sex marriages make Jesus have a sad.
And you can't speak to any of the facts. You want to talk about delusions and fantasies because the facts as they exist are not at all flattering to Hillary nor to her supporters.

I will assume you endorse the Saddleback Church remarks by your candidate since you have refused to comment upon them. Repeatedly. While demanding we speak of your role playing fantasies instead.

[DanTex]

96. More personal attacks, huh. Just make sure you don't answer any uncomfortable questions about Bernie

That's what matters here. Keeping the ideology unchallenged.

[Bluenorthwest]

101. I'm attacking your bullshit positions with all the respect they deserve. You have not asked any

questions about Bernie at all, you have foisted a fantasia about 'what if Bernie was asked to speak at Club for Growth'. This can not be answered because it is not real, it did not happen, this event exists in your own head and not in the actual world.

What if they asked him and he said yes but the alien ships arrived in the skies and prevented the event from taking place? Answer that, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you!!!

What if Bernie gave a speech to the Friar's Club and Richard Lewis took one of the barbs personally and started weeping like a baby? What would you do then? What would Hillary do?

What if Hillary gave a speech to Goldman Sachs and when asked to share a transcript she got all defensive about it? What would that mean? Oh, sorry. This one actually happened. So obviously you won't want to talk about that.....

[Vinca]

48. Take a breath, an hour or two off, and give some some to a valid attack against Bernie.

We know you hate him, but posting some of these things turns out to be downright amusing.

[DanTex]

49. I like the guy, actually, but I just don't want to see the Dems swing in a pro-gun, anti-immigrant,

and generally more socially conservative direction.

[Vinca]

63. I think calling Bernie those things is a real stretch.

The only real difference in gun policy is that suing the manufacturers thing and no one has yet to tell me the legal theory behind suing a legal manufacturer for a legal sale of a legal item if the law is taken off the books. As for immigration, Hillary supports the Obama policy and he's deported more undocumented immigrants than any president to date.

[DanTex]

67. Well, I don't. The record is clear on both.

[Bluenorthwest]

71. Here's your candidate's clear record:

[Bluenorthwest]

88. Fun Hillary 08 quote about guns and immigration.....

“I disagree with Sen. Obama’s assertion that people in our country cling to guns and have certain attitudes about trade and immigration simply out of frustration. You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught me how to shoot when I was a little girl. You know, some people now continue to teach their children and their grandchildren. It’s part of culture. It’s part of a way of life. People enjoy hunting and shooting because it’s an important part of who they are. Not because they are bitter."
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/12/clinton-touts-her-experience-with-guns/

[riderinthestorm]

50. Bookmarking for when I need a laugh.

You've outdone yourself with this post. Really.

[Bluenorthwest]

53. Straight White Male Danny you need to check your privileged mendacious mouth.

Your community is the source of basically ALL the homophobia in the entire world. You don't know social justice because your community delivers nothing but injustice. Your candidate promotes Ronald Reagan social values:

" It may be hard for your viewers to remember how difficult it was for people to talk about HIV/AIDS back in the 1980s and because of both president and Mrs. Reagan — in particular Mrs. Reagan — we started a national conversation, when before nobody would talk about it, nobody wanted to do anything about it, and that too is something I really appreciate with her very effective low-key advocacy. It penetrated the public conscience and people began to say, hey, we have to do something about this too."

That's Hillary last month, saying Republicans were leading the way on LGBT issues. Also saying LGBT did not have the courage to do so ourselves until St Ronnie and his Sanctified Wife did it for us.

She's also said she's willing to compromise on Choice. She opposed marriage equality until there were not enough anti equality Democrats to pander to. She's insulted LGBT more often than any living Democrat.

[libtodeath]

54. Did I just read what I thought I did?

[Warren Stupidity]

59. K&R for the fabulous fantasy horseshit!

[Bluenorthwest]

64. What a load of bullshit. Compare Bernie at Liberty with Hillary at Saddleback Church.

Here is each candidate's opening remarks and a link to the full text. It is not at all the way the OP presents it. The OP presents a falsehood.

Bernie At Liberty University:
" Thank you, President Falwell and David. Thank you very much for inviting my wife, Jane, and me to be with you even this morning. We appreciate the invitation very much.

And let me start off by acknowledging what I think all of you already know. And that is the views that many here at Liberty University have and I, on a number of important issues, are very, very different. I believe in a woman's rights....
And the right of a woman to control her own body.

I believe gay rights and gay marriage.

Those are my views, and it is no secret. But I came here today, because I believe from the bottom of my heart that it is vitally important for those of us who hold different views to be able to engage in a civil discourse."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/09/14/bernie-sanders-liberty-university-speech-annotated/

Hillary at Saddleback Church:
"Well I am so honored and personally delighted to be here, and I want to thank Rick and Kay Warren for bringing us together this week around World AIDS Day. And I want to thank their tremendous staff and the volunteers and everyone who helped make this happen. I'm grateful for the opportunity to share our commitment about dealing with the global scourge of HIV/AIDS.

I also want to recognize two first ladies: the first lady of Zambia and the first lady of Rwanda. I am delighted that they are here representing their countries and their people.

And first, [applause] let me first say how relieved Bill and I were to hear that Saddleback was spared from the recent wildfires - and how impressed and moved we were to hear about the love and support that you gave those who were not so fortunate.

It's another example of the way in which this church is not measured by numbers. Yes, the numbers are big, they're certainly impressive. But it's measured by your impact. It's measured by the meaning that you give to lives here
within this complex and so far beyond its boundaries. And the commitment that you demonstrate both to our faith in God and to doing His work here on earth is exemplary and that is one of the many reasons that I wanted to be here today.

You know, Rick has helped so many people with his lessons for a 40-day spiritual journey. But he knows those 40 days are just the beginning. My own faith journey is approaching a half a century, and I know how far I still have to go."
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=77080


So there it is. OP is full of shit.

[Scuba]

65. The Daily Fail.

[yodermon]

97. You have been thoroughly, thoroughly trounced on this thread. But actually,

if the Club for Growth asked Bernie to come give a speech, then yes I think he'd accept, and probably give a speech similar to the one you claimed he'd never give. Liberty U. *invited* him to come; he didn't seek it out.

Do you think the Club for Growth would invite Bernie to give a speech?

[NorthCarolina]

98. Good grief, have you no shame?

[Gothmog]

102. I am not buying what Sanders is selling

[4Q2u2]

106. ??????????

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=351029

I would think blocking LGBT rights would not be considered Socially Liberal.

As for the rest, her words speak volumes.

[DanTex]

107. LOL. Yeah, I've seen that video...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511514375

[Bluenorthwest]

108. Obviously the OP and his cohort will not be able to muster responses but the Saddleback Church

speech by Hillary ties in with her recent vile comments about Reagan being an AIDS era hero, she is hesitant to say 'gay' when speaking of AIDS and spends much time excusing the religious right for their heartless attacks on people with HIV and for the many years they spent hindering when they should have been helping.

The OP who claims to speak for social justice will not even bother to address the words of his candidate. Hypocrisy, dishonesty and a super entitled elitist worldview.

[Bluenorthwest]

109. Hillary Clinton at Saddleback Church/ Hillary Clinton on Ronald Reagan

Saddleback:
"Twenty-five years ago, when men - mostly young gay men - began dying from a disease that had no name, we could not have, and certainly did not, talk about it in church. It would not have been proper. It would not have been polite. It would have been discomforting for so many of us.

But the disease itself was not polite, and ignoring it did not make it go away.
And so we've come a long way. Not only can we talk about AIDS in church, but churches are leading the way. Thanks to leaders like Rick and Kay, Christians have embraced the sickest among us, and have fought the disease itself."

On Reagan:
"It may be hard for your viewers to remember how difficult it was for people to talk about HIV/AIDS back in the 1980s and because of both president and Mrs. Reagan — in particular Mrs. Reagan — we started a national conversation, when before nobody would talk about it, nobody wanted to do anything about it, and that too is something I really appreciate with her very effective low-key advocacy. It penetrated the public conscience and people began to say, hey, we have to do something about this too."

Note how in both cases she presents those who hindered and harmed those with HIV/AIDS as leading the way, she claims those who did nothing did everything, refuses to offer credit to the LGBT community for what they did and offers up excuses for Straight Christians who acted out of bigotry for years and years.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=77080

She's heaping praise on Ron and Nancy, on Rick Warren and his wife, on the Saddleback Christians and refusing all praise to the LGBT community for sounding the alarm none of you wanted to hear.

[Lucinda]

111. I never thought about it that way but you are correct!

[Prism]

112. These OPs in video form

[bettyellen]

113. half of GDP have railed against "identity politics" or dismissed us as "wedge issues"

So turnabout seems like fair play to me.

[ThePhilosopher04]

114. The crack must be strong in your neighborhood

[Vattel]

116. wow, he is way more progressive on social issues than she is.

His immigration reform proposal is pure gold. Hillary still wants to punish people who cross borders illegally to feed their families.

[JRLeft]

117. Has the OP ever been right?

[TheFarS1de]

118. You keep using the word "fan"

I'm not sure you understand what that means as he is considered a candidate , not a rock idol . It's only in the minds of the twisted and bitter that this even comes up as there is no comeback on policy ....

[Armstead]

123. Where do you come up with this stuff?

My guess is that the vast majority of Sanders supporters are pro-choice, pro-gender equality, pro-LGBT rights, anti-racist, pro immigration reform and immigrants rights, pro gun control, for crimnial justice reform, legalization of marijuana.......

Is this like a creative writing exercise?

[donna123]

125. I do not agree with Bernie on free college

I am being selfish but all I see out of that is me getting crapped on twice. I'd be taxed for college for others while paying off my student loans. That would suck. I do not believe college would be free for everyone without me getting taxed, no matter what Bernie says. I believe in taxes and higher taxes for me is fine for funding the EPA to keep our water and air clean and things like that.

This may not belong here but I also believe in making social security bigger and better. 401ks etc may have some role but I believe this is not the best way, pensions are. People don't know how to save. Bless Obama's heart but this savings plan he instituted, it's too little. 401ks seem to mainly be a way to make rich dicks richer by doing nothing but scamming people into putting money into plans where they take a cut, whether people make or lose money. WTF. These money managers don't really have any skills or talent do they to be getting a cut of your money for no reason. They can recommend whatever fund but picking one blindly by yourself is probably as good as taking their recommendation. Perhaps there are a few exceptions. I believe pensions are more cost effective, they're less prone to these agents or whoever they are, taking a cut. The only problem with pensions is to not overcalculate their yield and then promise things that cannot be delivered. People also seem to be underestimating average life expectancy these days. So while I applaud Obama's intentions to protect the American public, these things will not fix the main problem of people not saving for retirement.

[revbones]

128. Wow.

Too much. Hurting my sides with laughter.

[dchill]

129. Do you NEVER tire of being an inadequate shill?

[SixString]

130. Posts hidden by Jury: 10

[Bohemianwriter]

134. Bernie cared about soical issues long before Hillary ever did...

The thing is that he doesn't pander and play identity politics to his constiuents and then ignore them later.

Where are Hillary for instance on the issue with transgender people and bathroom policies tried to be pushed by religious lunatics in her own home terf - the deep south?

From what I hear, they had an LGBT parade in the town he was mayor of long before Hillary would even touch the issue with gay rights. She shifted opinion in 2010. From what I read, she doesn't like Chelsea Manning much and incited her gender identity as a smear of the whistleblower.
Where is Hillary on whistleblowers who exposes criminal actions committed by Government?

Where was Hillary on civil rights issues in the 90's or the failed drug war? She called disenfranchised black kids "super predators without consience or empathy" while her husband continued Reagan's unconstitutional drug war that has failed on so many levels.

Bernie wants to legalize weed, and end the drug war once and for all. Hillary still wants to funnel black kids directly from school to the privte prison plantations for their campaign contributions.

Where is Hillary on sending kids backs to the death squads propped up by Hillary in Honduras?
Where does Hillary stand on immiration?
Is she in favor of amnesty, or is she in favor of fences and border patrols?
Bernie had guts going to Liberty U. Perhaps he gave them some food for though rather than trying to divide and conquer as Hillary does with her shameless identity politics. He found common ground with them and appealled to them with a speech that must have been inspired by the Sermon on the Mount. What would a Hillary speech been like in the same setting?

Wanna talk about social issues or gun deaths?
Why not talk about the ten million dollars her foundation recieved from a regime that still stones women for witch craft, punishes rape victims and executes Atheist poets and Shia peace mongers as terrorists while her arms deals donors gets to sell them arms to by used against civilians in another country.

[highprincipleswork]

135. A horribly inaccurate generalization posing as some secret wisdom. In other words, a crock.