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Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:45 AM

 

Okay Democratic Party, what the hell is your problem?

I swear, the Democratic Party could fuck up a wet dream. On one hand you've got a beloved candidate whose supporters ooze enthusiasm, who never hesitate to shower him with money, who will crawl over broken glass not only to vote for him but to volunteer for him, who would drive turnout in droves. He preaches a return to fairness and economic opportunity for all.

On the other, you've got a candidate dogged by scandal, under FBI investigation, sleazed up to the nines, trustworthiness and approval numbers through the floor and digging, preaching "settle for less", who will actively depress turnout.

Just in terms of finding some coat-tails to ride, why aren't the downticket candidates clamoring for a shift to Bernie? If Hillary is the nominee people will stay home in droves and it will be a Republican walk in the park!

70 replies, 2979 views

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Arrow 70 replies Author Time Post
Reply Okay Democratic Party, what the hell is your problem? (Original post)
Jester Messiah Apr 2016 OP
bigtree Apr 2016 #1
Armstead Apr 2016 #2
DanTex Apr 2016 #9
Armstead Apr 2016 #33
kristopher Apr 2016 #59
Jarqui Apr 2016 #11
glowing Apr 2016 #20
RockaFowler Apr 2016 #39
glowing Apr 2016 #52
Loudestlib Apr 2016 #45
daleanime Apr 2016 #3
firebrand80 Apr 2016 #4
Jester Messiah Apr 2016 #8
DanTex Apr 2016 #12
DemocracyDirect Apr 2016 #17
Kentonio Apr 2016 #69
firebrand80 Apr 2016 #16
Jester Messiah Apr 2016 #22
firebrand80 Apr 2016 #37
geek tragedy Apr 2016 #48
Joob Apr 2016 #5
JTFrog Apr 2016 #13
LonePirate Apr 2016 #61
Jester Messiah Apr 2016 #66
ALittleBirdie Apr 2016 #70
DanTex Apr 2016 #6
Vilis Veritas Apr 2016 #25
DanTex Apr 2016 #26
Vilis Veritas Apr 2016 #41
firebrand80 Apr 2016 #42
Scuba Apr 2016 #28
DanTex Apr 2016 #30
brooklynite Apr 2016 #7
Jester Messiah Apr 2016 #10
pinebox Apr 2016 #57
Orsino Apr 2016 #14
Red Oak Apr 2016 #15
Jester Messiah Apr 2016 #19
CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #18
astrophuss42 Apr 2016 #31
Paladin Apr 2016 #21
TransitJohn Apr 2016 #23
Red Oak Apr 2016 #53
BillZBubb Apr 2016 #24
RiverLover Apr 2016 #34
oberliner Apr 2016 #27
BillZBubb Apr 2016 #36
JTFrog Apr 2016 #40
BillZBubb Apr 2016 #43
JTFrog Apr 2016 #49
BillZBubb Apr 2016 #55
JTFrog Apr 2016 #58
RockaFowler Apr 2016 #44
oberliner Apr 2016 #50
Autumn Apr 2016 #29
astrophuss42 Apr 2016 #32
snooper2 Apr 2016 #35
BillZBubb Apr 2016 #38
snooper2 Apr 2016 #51
VulgarPoet Apr 2016 #47
Jester Messiah Apr 2016 #63
geek tragedy Apr 2016 #46
HughLefty1 Apr 2016 #54
Mbrow Apr 2016 #56
gordyfl Apr 2016 #65
Corruption Inc Apr 2016 #60
gordyfl Apr 2016 #62
MuseRider Apr 2016 #64
PATRICK Apr 2016 #67
Warren DeMontague Apr 2016 #68

Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:49 AM

1. um, over 2.5 million more people have voted for her than Sanders in this election

 

...that's 'beloved.'

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Response to bigtree (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:50 AM

2. I'd say about 50 percent of that is most likely "pragmatic" settling

 

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Response to Armstead (Reply #2)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:55 AM

9. People can vote for any reason they want. I have my own opinions about why people are

voting for Bernie. But in the end, what matters is that, thus far, the Democratic electorate has cast far more votes for Hillary.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:19 AM

33. My post was in response to the claim that her totals are because "that's 'beloved.' "

 

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Response to Armstead (Reply #2)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:35 AM

59. Nah, they just ran the most conservative electorates first.

That tally isn't going to hold - not even close. The liberal states are just stepping up to the plate.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:56 AM

11. Ah yes, let's disenfranchise the voters in the caucus states because

Hillary's desperation leads her to have a warped view of the primary process and representation.

That's a pretty sad Presidential outlook that deceives. So sad, in fact, that it shouldn't be thoughts a real good President should even conjure up.

But Hillary has always been a bit of a head case. She pulled this stunt in 2008. It didn't help her then and it's unlikely to help her now because folks will catch on like they did in 2008.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:07 AM

20. Much of that is from Southern states that are red.

 

The General Electionliterally comes down to about 4 states at the end of the day. There are certain GE states that will always go red. There are others that always go blue. Then you have the swing states that the candidates spend most of their time and money in fighting like hell for every vote and for every new voter they can find for them. And many of these swing state have Republicans and Supreme Court decisions that have created voter suppression tactics as a winning model for Republicans. They make it easy for their rural, racist, ignorant voters the ability to vote, and create enormous problems and issues for the urban, youth, and poor voters of their states. They create long lines for voting, run out of ballots, decrease the number of polling locations, make registering to vote a huge hassle, throw people off the voting roles because there are more than one Sam Smith or Juan Carlos registered to vote (and there really are 4 or 5 different persons with those names OR they challenge the person citizenship OR here in FL they challenge because they say it's a person who's committed and felony), and as we've seen this year, people's party registration is being flipped... Seems quite strange for such oddities that can't be fixed for a voter on the day of voting; nope, most states have a cut off date for being able to vote in a primary or a general election. Why? In a democracy people should be able to vote easily! People should be able to register to vote and vote on the same day of an election; or at least up to a week out...not months before the date of an election.

We should be making elections easier to vote in for citizens, verifiable by voters for elections, and made into a National Holiday. We are supposed to be the leaders of democracy for the world, and we are seeing real theft of elections, engineering rules and regulations to make it harder for voters to register and participate, and run the country via 2-parties that have more loyalty to their investors than they do the country or its citizens.

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Response to glowing (Reply #20)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:23 AM

39. Please stop with this

Florida - not red
Ohio - not Southern
Massachusetts - not Southern
Illinois - not Southern
Iowa - not Southern

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Response to RockaFowler (Reply #39)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:31 AM

52. That wasn't the major point of my post, but thanks for playin..

 

BTW, Ohio and Florida are swing states. They go red and they go blue. Both of the states are run by Republicans and will experience issues on Election Day in the GE.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:27 AM

45. Same as the last time she lost. n/t

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:51 AM

3. Two part answer-first is change is unsettling and the second is......

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:51 AM

4. More people are voting for Hillary

So, there's that

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Response to firebrand80 (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:54 AM

8. Not lately.

 

Recently what we're seeing is a lot of Bernie landslides. Also, you want to see who is being chosen by states that are likely to vote blue in the general. Primary victories are not predictive of success in the general. So if you're a down-ticket candidate, you want to take the long view on this.

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Response to Jester Messiah (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:56 AM

12. Right, but all the states matter, not just white states that hold caucuses and open primaries.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:03 AM

17. Remember that if we lose the white states in November.

 

All 50 states are important.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #12)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 05:14 AM

69. Yeah all those white states like Alaska and Hawaii..

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Response to Jester Messiah (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:02 AM

16. "Primary victories are not predictive of success in the general"

Then why does Bernie's performance in the primaries have you convinced that he's the strongest GE candidate?

Whoever wins the primary process, will and should be the nominee. You seem to think that the party should chose Bernie regardless.

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Response to firebrand80 (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:08 AM

22. As I said, you want to weight the primary victories...

 

A primary victory should weigh more in your calculations the more likely it is that the state in which it occurred will vote blue in the general.

Also, Bernie's primary victories are not my only factor. I'll refer you back to my OP for more factors.

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Response to Jester Messiah (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:22 AM

37. So you think the Party should nominate Bernie?

Even though he's very likely to lose the nominating process?

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Response to Jester Messiah (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:29 AM

48. Bernie got DESTROYED in Florida, Virginia, and Ohio. Wiped out.

 

And not in some bullshit caucus, in primaries that allowed early voting as well as all-day in person voting.

DESTROYED.

That sound like a great general election candidate to you?

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:52 AM

5. If Hillary is the face of Democrats, count me out. nt

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Response to Joob (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:57 AM

13. Ok. n/t

 

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Response to Joob (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:42 AM

61. So you're willing to help elect the Republican nominee?

If you are not willing to vote for the Democratic nominee, then you're helping elect the Republican. It's that simple.

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #61)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 01:02 PM

66. All the Hillary voters seem to be. How better to help than to put her up in the general? n/t

 

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Response to Jester Messiah (Reply #66)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 07:53 AM

70. Excellent point!

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:53 AM

6. Why has the supposedly "beloved" candidate gotten so many fewer votes?

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Response to DanTex (Reply #6)


Response to Vilis Veritas (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:14 AM

26. There's always some excuse...

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Response to DanTex (Reply #26)


Response to DanTex (Reply #26)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:25 AM

42. Let's just make Bernie's votes count for 2 nt

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Response to DanTex (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:16 AM

28. Why has he won seven of the last eight primaries?

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #28)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:17 AM

30. For the same reason Hillary won the 5 before that. Some states favor H, some B.

And caucuses favor B, while closed primaries favor H.

But overall, H is winning more votes and delegates than B.

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:54 AM

7. Because it takes more to win a national election than being "beloved" by base voters.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:56 AM

10. What about Independent voters? Bernie's appeal goes well beyond the base. n/t

 

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:34 AM

57. Hillary ONLY has the base

 

Open primary states reflect that

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 08:58 AM

14. Major political parties are the Establishment.

The Establishment doesn't reinvent itself just because we suddenly want it to.

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:00 AM

15. Establishment

The Democratic Party is not the clean, pure as the driven snow, group of people we would like o think they are.

That's why they are not behind Bernie. Money, power, greed.

That's why Bernie as President is a very, very good thing.

Proud to be a Berniecrat and help a man that will reform the Democratic apparatchik.

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Response to Red Oak (Reply #15)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:06 AM

19. Presumably they want to win though!

 

Or maybe not, maybe it's just as good to lose so long as the money keeps flowing. Argh, that's infuriating!

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:04 AM

18. Ever been on a team?

 

There is something unsettling about having a lopsided scoreboard, especially as the lesser team.

True sports-people don't even want to win by that many points.

When I look at primary results, there is a huge difference in perception depending on whether or not the super delegates are part of the graph, and even what colors the graph uses to show the difference.

When the supers are mixed in with the regular delegates graphically, Bernie looks more like he's getting trounced.

If the supers are graphed in a separate color, one can really see the race tightening primary to primary.

People want to be on a winning team.

Perception is very important.

I believe news outlets have a great responsibility when they produce election results graphics to be fair.

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Response to CompanyFirstSergeant (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:17 AM

31. The reason it looks like that, though

Is because she basically already bought them off.... *cough*cough* I mean she's supporting downticket.

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:07 AM

21. I don't have a problem. I'm a lifelong Democrat...not a socialist.

In the unlikely event that Bernie gets the nomination, I'll vote for him. Otherwise, my support remains with Hillary.

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:10 AM

23. The really fascinating thing to me this year

is that both parties are so out of touch with what the country wants. The leadership of both parties look like fucking idiots.

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Response to TransitJohn (Reply #23)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:31 AM

53. +1 - This

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:12 AM

24. The party has been corrupted by big money.

The Democratic party felt obligated to get in bed with the corporations to get enough funding to compete with the republicans. The downside is once that door was opened, the party leadership became addicted to the funding and all the goodies that brought. They aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them.

None of the party elite want to change anything. They are on the gravy train and Hillary brings home the gravy.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #24)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:20 AM

34. +1

That's it in a nutshell.

Adding in how Clintons' DLC & then Third Way has been an integral part of that transformation tells more of the tale.

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:14 AM

27. African-American voters are turning out in droves for Hillary

 

Her numbers with that important Democratic Party constituency are through the roof.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #27)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:22 AM

36. And?

Other, far bigger Democratic constituencies are under water for her.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #36)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:23 AM

40. You mean white men? n/t

 

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #40)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:25 AM

43. I mean under 35 voters mainly. But nice try at race baiting.

The future of the party is in that group. Candidates like Hillary are not going to keep them in the Democratic column.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #43)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:29 AM

49. Yea, that's a shame.

 

Because they'll vote for a hero and then sit on their asses and gripe and complain about shit not going their way for the next four years.

Same fucking thing happened with Obama. Now there was a revolution and a movement. Bernie hasn't seen a crowd near that size has he? Nope. And none of the kids voting for him will show up in two years to elect more Democrats so he can get anything done. I keep reading here how much Bernie supporters hate the Democratic party. Their hero hates the party and is just using it for money and media. Bash bash bash. Not sure how anyone thinks that's gonna win people over to the party or get anything done.

The "revolution" will not be televised.





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Response to JTFrog (Reply #49)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:33 AM

55. The shame is that you believe the bullshit you just posted.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #55)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:34 AM

58. And I bet you believe the bullshit you've lived through too. n/t

 

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #36)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:26 AM

44. Like Hispanics and Women

She's winning with both of them as well

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #36)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:29 AM

50. She might have more success in upcoming states

 

Which are more diverse than Utah and Wisconsin.

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:17 AM

29. They have taken a stand. Hillary will be the nominee or the country can go to hell.

The leaderships own little stupid version of Hillary or bust.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #29)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:18 AM

32. That is a good point. eom

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:21 AM

35. Damn, why don't you just declare Sanders the incarnation of the mythical jesus and be done with it

 

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #35)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:23 AM

38. Sure, NO CLINTON! Who are you trying to fool?

Maybe yourself, I suppose.

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Response to BillZBubb (Reply #38)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:31 AM

51. Hell no, I'm screwed all the way around LOL- Now my daughter will she this shit in her textbooks

 

BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
OBAMA
OBAMA
OBAMA
OBAMA
OBAMA
OBAMA
OBAMA
OBAMA
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON


And I'll have to explain before she was born and when she was young Obama was the "golden" years- Outside of that two political dynasties RULE THE WORLD!

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #35)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:28 AM

47. Eh, I certainly believe he's mythical.

After all, true Statesmen don't exist anymore, just corrupt money-changers.

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #35)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:51 AM

63. Refuge in absurdity.

 

He doesn't have to be Jesus to be the better option. Although as the new Daily Show guy said, Bernie's a Jewish guy who cares about poor people and is pissed with the money lenders. All he's really lacking at this point is an interest in carpentry!

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:27 AM

46. Shorter OP: "Only dumb people support Hillary" nt

 


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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:32 AM

54. Folks are waking up and thinking for themselves..

Early on the MSM was making the populace feel that Hillary was inevitable and Bernie was just some kind of boutique candidate. People were voting for the person they thought was supposed to win.

I'll bet if some of those early states were to re-do their elections now, Sanders would win states that HRC previously won. It's called momentum and the MSM is and has been suppressing Bernie since the beginning of the process. The people are now awake to what's going on.

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Response to HughLefty1 (Reply #54)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:34 AM

56. +1 well put.

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Response to HughLefty1 (Reply #54)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 10:12 AM

65. I Believe You're Right

"I'll bet if some of those early states were to re-do their elections now, Sanders would win states that HRC previously won."

I was watching the morning network news election results summary. They said that Ted Cruz had some "harsh words for Donald Trump". Then they showed the video of his harsh words.

They followed that with "Bernie Sanders also had harsh words directed at Hillary". They didn't say what those harsh words were. There was no video of Bernie. I wondered what were those harsh words? I guess they'll just leave it up to the viewers imagination.

They followed that with "Hillary tweeted Bernie Sanders 'Congratulations on you victory'".

Most of the video footage was that of winner Ted Cruz and loser Hillary Clinton. They showed only a few seconds of Bernie.

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)


Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:45 AM

62. There's a Political Revolution

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:59 AM

64. Now we see why

Bernie has remained an Independent. Party politics are not good when the most important thing is to convince yourself that whatever it is that your side does is correct and right and if you can't you vote for them anyway because it is your side and the other is crazy. It sure makes it easy if you can live with it.

****The other side IS crazy but Bernie is not the other side. He tilts his hat a little differently and apparently that is enough to try to wipe him out, democracy be dammed and all that.

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 04:22 AM

67. Two reasons

Not in their financial interests, mainly current ideology. Two they are scared of being actually responsive to the masses so losing voters while not such a big deal as widespread vote suppression is to the mega-Mammon GOP, is something they would like toned down and kept incrementally competitive.

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Response to Jester Messiah (Original post)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 05:03 AM

68. The fish rots from the head. And the head does shit like defend predatory payday loansharking

and teams up with Sheldon Adelson to send sick people to prison for using medical marijuana.

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