2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHow can a brilliant political scientist like Rachel seem oblivious to the DLC?
Someone explain to her that the pre-DLC Democratic Party was very close to labor. Then a movement, led by monied interests and elites, the DLC, came along and ended welfare as we know it (whistle), got tough on crime (whistle), entered "Free" trade agreements (broke with labor), and put the final nail in the Glass-Stegall coffin. And yet, she's befuddled that Bernie wants to move the Party in a new direction. Or more accurately, he wants to return the Party to its pre-DLC roots. This shit escapes her.

Lucinda
(31,170 posts)WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)electing other progressives. He was very clear recently. He ran as a Dem for the resources and media attention. His words, not mine.
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)want anything to do with a Sanders led Democratic Party. Did I get that right?
msongs
(70,584 posts)WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)I said it a while ago, the way you guys go so aggressively at Sanders supporters for not supporting Hillary in the GE appears to be projection. You guys are proving me to be correct, here.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Twist away.
I've been perfectly clear that Bernie has no interest in the Dem party. And fortunately, he wont be our nominee so I don't have to worry about his lack of leadership skills in that regard.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)out of the tent, and then wonder why she's not receiving any enthusiastic support. This primary will show me if that's any place left for me in the party.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Bernie Sanders on Monday told NBCs Chuck Todd that he ran as a Democrat to get more media coverage.
During a town hall-style event in Columbus, Ohio, the independent Vermont senator said, In terms of media coverage, you have to run within the Democratic Party. He then took a dig at MNSBC, telling Todd, the network would not have me on his program if he ran as an independent.
Money also played a role in his decision to run as a Democrat, Sanders added.
To run as an independent, you need you could be a billionaire," he said. "If you're a billionaire, you can do that. I'm not a billionaire. So the structure of American politics today is such that I thought the right ethic was to run within the Democratic Party.
POLITICO has previously reported that Sanders initially resisted running as a Democrat, but was convinced by his advisers that it was necessary.
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)in congress. It is what it is.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)Your time has come ...
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)"Your time has come" ... "Your gone".
You're starting to concern me.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)of his Democratic Party makes America better.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)he hasn't lifted a finger to help any down ballot Dems-Bernie is in it for Bernie
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Because he would take a lot of votes from the "party" - besides, it is just a label. Look at issues.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Why would she nor see your point of view? Because she has no progressive credibility?
dchill
(41,253 posts)KelleyD
(277 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)from a corporate "news" network that has fired several of its more progressive commentators.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Well scjhooled on what she is supposed to say to persuade US what WE should think...
kcjohn1
(751 posts)That is what I consider the democratic party. All the rest are corporate sellouts and part of the new wave democrats who are really just the old GOP who have changed sides.
Sanders is leading revolution to take back the Democratic party from the Clinton invasion and infection of the party.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
840high
(17,196 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)...
leveymg
(36,418 posts)A lot of them start out as brilliant but discover that they can't do without a steady, fat paycheck. She'll go the way of Geraldo.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Apparently Rachel Maddow now works the Pentagon channel.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8427312
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)after my MIRT time-out.
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and she is paid to miss those details. She is not dumb by any stretch. I betcha she would never invite Thomas Frank to the show to talk about those issues, for example.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)It takes a specialist who doesn't require constant monitoring. No one has to send Dr. Maddow a memo. (She's got a Ph.D., doesn't she?)
PS - Yes she does. From Oxford and the abstract seems impressive:
This thesis analyses HIV/AIDS, health care, and prison reform in British and American prisons and concludes that HIV/AIDS has engendered a novel form of prison activism. It develops a schematic history of prison reform, arguing that administrative, co-operative, and oppositional models of reform can be discerned according to relationships between reformers and prison officials. Modern alliances between prisoners and non-prisoner allies - disruptions to the beneficence dynamic that has usually held between prisoners and their outside supporters - have been intensely threatening to prison officials and have resulted in backlash. This thesis also argues that the HIV/AIDS movement has prioritised the experiences and needs of people living with HIV/AIDS, and has defined people living with HIV/AIDS and their communities as HIV/AIDS experts. To a limited extent, the HIV/AIDS movement has embraced prisoners within its constituency. Despite often radical, oppositional tactics, prison officials have not precluded HIV/AIDS activists' access to prisons and prisoners. Prisoners living with (or at risk for) HIV/AIDS have been both the subjects of outsiders' advocacy, and the agents of advocacy themselves. There has not been an overwhelming backlash against HIV/AIDS activism in prisons, and prison administrators have engaged co-operatively with HIV/AIDS activists to a greater extent than they have with other prisoners' advocates. This analysis also finds that prison health care reform has focused, with limited success, on integrating prisoners into the remit of free-world health authorities. It is shown that HIV/AIDS in prison activists have had greater success with this strategy than health care reformers because they have approached their task primarily as an HIV/AIDS issue, rather than as prison reform. HIV/AIDS in prison activism shows that when advocates treat prisoners as members of communities that supersede incarceration, they may also supersede some of the constraints of traditional prison politics.
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)prisons then you can repost it there.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)No, I find what she does unjustifiable. Out of curiousity I looked up whether her diss was online, and that's the abstract. "Sounds impressive" because it does. But I'll look for your thread when you start it, sounds interesting.
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)I'm using my phone which doesn't display images. It makes sarcasm all the more difficult.
tokenlib
(4,186 posts)They aren't that stupid. They know the history as well as we do. They know this rift has been under the surface ever since the Clinton's brought the New Dem/Third Way/DLC into the party.
This is Hillary's moment. Unfortunately for Hillary, the New Deal progressives have been told before that they have to get in line because of the Supreme Court, or the GOP demon of the year. and after two decades...there is really a question as to whether they will do that. The revolt is for real..even if the media conglomerates find it in their interests to minimize it, discount it, ignore it and to outright boost Hillary. Bernie is for real, the revolt is for real.
And the best part for the country? It is happening in both parties at the same time. Both parties are shrinking because the masses are fed up with the status quo and want change. All bets are off. It's dangerous and it's an opportunity. As long as we don't choose the establishment candidate in an insurgent year.
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)I'm taking a break from him.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)No kidding, many have explained that history to us and now they are dumbfounded that we understood the lessons.
Response to tokenlib (Reply #22)
silvershadow This message was self-deleted by its author.
Califonz
(465 posts)It is difficult to get a person to understand something, when his or her salary depends on not understanding it.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)That's it exactly
revbones
(3,660 posts)She's in the bubble.
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)KelleyD
(277 posts)I can't stand the change in Democratic Underground becoming a Alex Jones CT site. Step back and listen to yourselves. I know some of you are passionately following Bernie, but get a grip. You are sounding as if a Women who has dedicated her life for liberal causes is the Devil reincarnate. And don't retort with you "but she did this" stuff. You all are getting into the crowd mentality of hate.
tokenlib
(4,186 posts)Believe me, the New Dem/Third Way/ formerly Democrats for the Leisure Class may tolerate liberal social views, but on economic issues they are far from liberal and they are Hillary's friends and backers. They advocate entitlement reform, free trade and all the positions Hillary will return to after the primaries IF she wins the nomination.
KelleyD
(277 posts)Have you followed the history of why Bill Clinton went for the "Triangulation" route. Because we could not win the White House...Duh! We had been beaten for 12 years by the Repubs and maybe were too ideological "too pure". We won back the White house (with a Repub Congress) but proved to the US that our polices could bring us out of Debt. Which BTW has been a pattern in the last few years that the Repubs put us in debt and the Dems come to the rescue and bring us back. No party can have it their way on all things. That is what Democracy is all about...Compromise. Do we want to be the Party of Obstruction that the Repubs have been the last 8 years or can we be the better party of leading our country out of the deadlock and work for the people.
840high
(17,196 posts)of Kool-Aid.
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)the Party. You refute all evidence. You take no responsibility for it. Your strategy, blame and shame others. You have a candidate who is being forced by an unknown outsider to move to the left. You guys are blind, supporting the most divisive figure in the history of the Party, and your only solution: ridicule, blame, and shame. Alienating others is a loser but obviously, your only resolve. As I said elsewhere tonight, the disconnect between "We've been in charge of the Party since 1992" and "Half of the Party is in complete revolt" is incredible.
Keep it up! You're really helping our cause.
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)She avoids important issues and obsesses over nonsense.
Her 'talk me down' makes me want to vomit.
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)"Purple drank" is funny expression... me likey.
840high
(17,196 posts)brilliant.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)with her constant repetition used to put me to sleep. I happily dropped cable.
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)I'm thinking about going back to basic. The only reason I did the level I have was for MSNBC. But I'm long past watching them regularly.
Little_Wing
(417 posts)The cash register.... such a seductress.
Principles? Bah!
mythology
(9,527 posts)She is very smart and realizes that those connections that you think are so obvious and so concrete, really aren't.
For example, a number of economists don't find that the so-called repeal of Glass-Steagall had an appreciable impact on the 2007 banking crisis as the repeal was only for a small part of the act and the firms that failed weren't granted new less-regulated power by the partial repeal of Glass-Steagall.
Likewise the case against free trade isn't nearly as cut and dried as some wish to pretend it is. Plant closing related job losses didn't increase after NAFTA. The decline in manufacturing jobs coincides with increases in automation and worker productivity that have nothing to do with NAFTA. To pretend that the issue is black and white is simplistic.