"Until they release full returns, this exercise is more about politics than real transparency,”

[geek tragedy]

Last edited Mon Apr 4, 2016, 11:16 AM - Edit history (1)

Is this kind of statement indicative of people holding politicians accountable on transparency and disclosure, or is it just something David Brock invented so he could attack Bernie Sanders?

I'd like to see where the DU community stands on whether the demand for transparency in tax returns is legit and should be/already is expected of all candidates for President, or something that has been ginned up conveniently this past week to support the Clinton campaign.






Post title is a direct quote from an article criticizing Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz for a similar lack of full disclosure:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/marco-rubio-tax-returns-219905

64 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Real transparency is full transparency, partial transparency is not good enough
	23 (36%)
	Fake issue invented by David Brock and Blue Nation Review hacks to attack Bernie
	41 (64%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
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[Lucinda]

1. It's been the standard for a while now. n/t

[geek tragedy]

2. that is my understanding. But apparently Sanders supporters here disagree and think

this is some kind of Swiftboating

[Lucinda]

3. Well we do have a lot of brand spankin new Dems this cycle, so maybe

they are just uninformed? Dem politics are messy, but until this cycle, fairly straightforward. Lately, everything is a conspiracy.

[geek tragedy]

15. Asdf

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1641857

[Cha]

4. KICK!

[nichomachus]

5. Same goes for speech transcripts. Let's see them.

Or else there's no transparency.

[Perogie]

6. I don't think he wants people to see how much he made

doing all those Goldman Sachs speeches....oh wait, that wasn't him. Never mind.

[geek tragedy]

10. If he has nothing to hide .... nt

[BlueCaliDem]

28. Your subject line is perfect. Then you went and spoiled it with a CT. Sad.

[CalvinballPro]

47. I don't think he wants people to see how much money he has invested in fracking

because that would reveal him as the giant hypocrite that he really is. Not only did he violate the Greenpeace pledge, but his retirement is based on fracking doing well and delivering him fat dividends!

[Perogie]

49. You got proof of that?

I got proof Hillary is a Hypocrite.

[silvershadow]

7. Release the Wall Street speeches transcripts. nt

[geek tragedy]

9. non sequitur nt

[silvershadow]

11. yet germane. nt

[geek tragedy]

12. In that it shows hypocrisy on his part, yes nt

[silvershadow]

13. Not at all. I believe she set the standard for response times. We are still waiting, and waiting..

[geek tragedy]

14. She has already provided full disclosure of her taxes

his turn to put up or, at long last, shut up

[silvershadow]

16. Oh I meant the transcripts. The tax thing is a red herring. Nice try to deflect. nt

[geek tragedy]

17. No, actually the tax disclosure is expected of all serious candidates

Not just Bernie.

[silvershadow]

18. I know. But your making it an issue is a red herring, meant to deflect. Every time taxes are

brought up, I'm going to call attention to the transcripts. Hillary will have to exit the national stage with broken fingernails and DNA under them if she really wants this.

[geek tragedy]

19. so you admit the transcripts thing is just a stunt

[silvershadow]

21. No I don't admit anything you assert. I admit Hillary isn't much of a candidate to my party. nt

[geek tragedy]

22. She is to my party. I'm a Democrat nt

[silvershadow]

24. If you support her, you are Third Way, whether or not you know it. I'm talking about the Democratic

party of my youth. I'm and FDR Democrat all the way, pro-labor too.

[geek tragedy]

40. Spare me the sanctimony. Not everyone who supports Clinton is third way. nt

[silvershadow]

23. Her promise to release the transcripts as soon as she found the custodian WAS a stunt.

She knew she was the sole custodian when she said it.

[Recursion]

8. It's fake, just like the "transcripts" crap

Nobody actually cares what focus-grouped pablum Clinton told a bunch of bored bankers, nor how much Sanders paid in Federal income tax. It gives people something to feel indignant about, though, so it's not going away any time soon.

[BlueCaliDem]

29. Bernie's only released his 2014 IRS summary (two pages) while Hillary's released her full IRS filing

for that same year and thirteen more years before that. Presidential candidates since FDR have released their full tax filings or they risk conjuring distrust among the people. Have a look at the link below.

http://www.taxhistory.org/www/website.nsf/Web/PresidentialTaxReturns?OpenDocument

Also, some sage advice, don't demand stuff that is unprecedented from your opponent in order to make that opponent appear untrustworthy while disingenuously hiding your Federal tax filing - which does have precedence - as best you can so...so...so why, exactly? What reason could he possibly have to hide his full and complete tax filings from his employers (voters)?

What is he hiding? #ReleaseTheReturns

[Agschmid]

35. #Nailedit

[Chichiri]

20. Don't think either tax returns or speech transcripts are necessarily germane...

...to one's ability to perform the duties of President.

Health records, on the other hand . . .

[silverweb]

25. Filing date for 2015 isn't even here yet.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Demand for tax returns not even due to be filed with the IRS yet are not about "transparency," but just another crazy, manufactured line of bull.

[geek tragedy]

42. Filing dates for 2008-2014 have already expired. nt

[silverweb]

51. So?

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Why not be patient for a couple of weeks, after which the whole enchilada can be available in one release? This is just another manufactured tempest in a teapot simply to make noise.

[geek tragedy]

54. So he's delaying the release until after the NY primary? nt

[silverweb]

56. Lame.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Now I know why I stay out of this forum and these silly nitpicking fights. Adios.

[pugetres]

26. Thanks to a Poster (thank you, amborin!)

on another thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511642278

In 1992, during Bill Clinton's first run for office, the Clintons declined to release all of their tax returns because, it turned out, a few of the returns showed Hillary Clinton's incredible success in commodities trading when Bill Clinton was attorney general and then governor of Arkansas.

She made almost $100,000 from an initial investment of $1,000 in a matter of months — a return of 10,000% — under the guidance of a lawyer who was also outside counsel to Tyson Foods Inc., Arkansas' largest employer. The returns weren't made public until 1994.

- http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/clintons-absymal-record-on-open-government-b99696012z1-374014501.html?platform=hootsuite

[BlueCaliDem]

32. So you believe that Bernie is hiding his incredible success in...what? Is he hiding money? Is he

offshoring money to Caribbean charities under other people's names? Or is wife, Jane, doing something that isn't on par with the carefully crafted image of "every day man" they've been promoting? Maybe those returns will finally show where Bernie got the $1 million he wrote a check for at the beginning of his campaign? Or are they afraid that his tax returns - his FULL and COMPLETE tax returns - might show that Bernie nor Jane are as poor as they've been trying to propagate?

#ReleaseTheReturns!

By the way? Bill Clinton isn't running for president. Hillary is. So nice try, but no dice.

And Hillary has released all her IRS full filings from 2000 through 2014 - that's fourteen years compared to Bernie's ONE, and his is only a summary of TWO PAGES.

Read for yourself: http://www.taxhistory.org/www/website.nsf/Web/PresidentialTaxReturns?OpenDocument

[pugetres]

33. I believe that the Clintons were not transparent

and hid certain tax returns when he first ran for president. It took them two years to fully disclose their tax returns. I believe that he will release the schedules that go along with his 1040s that he has been releasing every year since he has been in office and that it won't take two years.

By the way, Jane Sanders isn't running for president. Bernie is. So nice try, but no dice.

[BlueCaliDem]

55. And I believe Bernie Sanders isn't being transparent - which raises the trustworthy issue.

If you demand that your rival release transcripts for private speeches (that aren't hers to release to begin with but he knows that and he knows YOU don't), then at least release your full and complete tax filings, which are in your power to do so and what's been tradition, Otherwise, you lose credibility.

Then again, with the shoddy book keeping Bernie's campaign has shown so far, I'm highly interested in those past filings. I mean, his campaign received not one but TWO letters of notice from the FEC regarding illegal donations to his campaign. His campaign treasurer doesn't appear to know what she's doing.

How many FEC letters has Hillary Clinton received? ZERO.

President Obama had released his tax filings when he first ran, right off bat, and continues to do so. Since he was a Senator in the U.S. Congress, it was the least he could do so that we'd know how he'd be as president.

Bernie has released only his IRS 1040 form (just a summary) with a promise to release more later and then he turned around and changed that excuse to only willing to release more if Hillary accepts the dates HE want for debates to again change his mind and finally said, "my wife does our taxes". So? Didn't he sign those past filings, too?

By the way, Jane Sanders isn't running for president. Bernie is. So nice try, but no dice.

When you bring up President Bill Clinton first in order to deflect an uncomfortable truth, expect turnabout being fair play.

[geek tragedy]

41. So Bernie is hiding something like that? nt

[artislife]

27. Laughingly pathetic, nt

[radical noodle]

30. Didn't we demand Mitt Romney's full tax returns four years ago?

This is always basic. Not holding Bernie to any different standard than anyone else.

[SaschaHM]

34. #NotUsThem

[uponit7771]

38. But a bird landed on his podium !!! /sarcasm

[pantsonfire]

31. David Brock is a hack....Clinton never released her...

...tax returns for her company ZFS Holdings, which funneled the money she received from her book profits and speaking fees.

[DemonGoddess]

43. the tax returns for the Clintons DO show

what was earned from ZFS Holdings, and taxes paid.

[pantsonfire]

48. source? n/t

[DemonGoddess]

50. 44 pages

http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presreturns.nsf/Returns/07E13291870D475885257E93007B1015/$file/HR_Clinton_2014.pdf

Okay, how the hell do I get this to show the entire link so it's clickable?

[Thinkingabout]

36. The candidates are required to release their tax returns, nothing new here.

There is not a law requiring a candidate to release speeches nor the conversations with lobbyists.

[bigwillq]

37. Taxes and transcripts should be released by all candidates (nt)

[Vinca]

39. I would hope Hillary supporters have enough imagination to come up with a new smear du jour.

Like ghetto-gate and a myriad of others, this one has worn out its punch.

[Lizzie Poppet]

45. Well...

>Hillary supporters
>imagination

Pick one.

[DemonGoddess]

44. No one is asking

for anything that every other candidate except for Trump has provided. Releasing the full documents is something they all do, each cycle, with very few exceptions.

[CalvinballPro]

46. Indeed, it draws more attention to withhold the returns, because it's so standard at this point.

Maybe Bernie Panders thought he'd just get to run for President under a different set of rules than everyone who has run before? Talk about entitlement. Living up in his safe seat in Vermont, having hordes of white progressives blow smoke up his rear end for 20-odd years, has made Panders start buying his own hype.

Meanwhile, here in the real world, the same rules apply to all candidates, even Progressive Jesus.

[pandr32]

52. I think all this will prove

...is that DU has been over-run by Sanders supporters who will take any position that favors their candidate.

[geek tragedy]

53. Sanders supporters don't care about transparency, they just care about attacking Hillary

They think it's unfair that Bernie Sanders is held to the same standard as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio.

[pandr32]

57. I know! It is a head scratcher--a huge unreasonable problem.