Hayes interview with Michelle Alexander - She is national treasure

[kcjohn1]

https://t.co/P3PhE92uLe

I recommend everyone watch this as anything I write about it won't do it justice. This lady is very smart and articulate.

[geek tragedy]

1. "Articulate?"

You may want to reword that.

[JonLeibowitz]

2. Are you joking? She is incredibly well spoken.

[geek tragedy]

7. Google "articulate black people"

No this is not race-baiting. It's a real thing.

[Recursion]

13. I'm having trouble believing somebody could be that clueless

It really is astounding.

[geek tragedy]

15. "Stockholm syndrome" was enthusiastically received by dozens

Tone deafness is a common thing

[Luminous Animal]

37. At what point do we move beyond ascribing "articulate" as an insult to black folks

and solely as a compliment to white folks.

She is incredibly articulate. Refreshingly articulate She is the definition of articulate. She expresses ideas fluently and coherently.

Should articulate be a positive attribute reserved only for white people?

[geek tragedy]

49. When we start insulting while people as 'uppity'

Or, better yet, when black folks stop finding it offensive

[Luminous Animal]

39. Indeed. Only white people can be articulate. No black people allowed to be articulate.

And yes. I am aware of the historical connotations.

Apparently, because of those connotations, any white people can be articulate but no black person can be.

[geek tragedy]

50. If you're aware that it's offensive that should be the end of the inquiry nt

[Luminous Animal]

63. So describing white people as articulate is a good thing. But doing such to black folks is a bad

thing.

Hillary Clinton would be articulate first lady..

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1290&dat=19921028&id=3vxTAAAAIBAJ&sjid=zYwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2943,6800524&hl=en

[geek tragedy]

64. The problem is that it isn't used to describe white peoples

Rare is the person who describes white people as articulate.

If white people were as likely to be described thusly this would not be an issue.



My wife is a very highly regarded courtroom lawyer. She's been the subject of multiple profile articles, and has received multiple awards where speechifying occurs. She has never been described as "articulate."

The word to use is "eloquent."

[Luminous Animal]

65. I gave the link when Hillary was described as such.

[geek tragedy]

66. 1992, and query whether a similar dynamic

may exist or have existed for women 24 years ago.
Maybe not, but if you have to go back 24 years to find it used to describe Hillary Clinton that also says something

[Luminous Animal]

67. So white women could only be articulate then and black people can be articulate never.

[geek tragedy]

68. See edits to post.

Hillary Clinton is easily the most heavily covered woman of the past quarter century, and maybe the most heavily covered person.

And she's crazy smart.

If you have to go back 24 years to find someone using that word to describe her ...

[whathehell]

124. Absolutely untrue..

I've heard it many times. You may just not notice it, as it's not a 'hot button' issue for whites and so it goes.unnoticed.

[Recursion]

61. Sure, whatever, if that's how you want to put it

I do, however, hope you have learned from this episode that many people find it hurtful to call an African American "articulate". Now that you understand this, we can hopefully move on.

[snowy owl]

102. Umm, that might say more about you? I followed without difficulty.

Sometimes you need patience and the ability to follow a line of reasoning to understand it. It was easy for me.

[Recursion]

12. OMG

It's like performance art. Is she "clean" too?

[JonLeibowitz]

19. I had no idea that was a slur. Fuck me for not knowing right? Yeah, I guess that's the idea.

[Recursion]

21. Well now you know. You can edit your OP if you like (nt)

[JonLeibowitz]

22. It's not my OP.

[Recursion]

23. Ah, sorry. Well I hope the OP edits it (nt)

[Luminous Animal]

42. Any white person can be articulate but no black person can be.

Articulate, speaking coherently and fluently is a descriptive for white people only.

[Recursion]

45. When was the last time you heard a white person described as "articulate"?

That's the point.

[Luminous Animal]

56. Hillary Clinton would be articulate first lady..

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1290&dat=19921028&id=3vxTAAAAIBAJ&sjid=zYwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2943,6800524&hl=en

[Recursion]

57. Exactly. 24 years ago

And about a woman in a time that was much more explicitly sexist

[Luminous Animal]

59. So you saying that she would not be articulate.

[Recursion]

60. I'm saying it's factually hurtful to a lot of black people to call a black person "articulate"

And being pig-headed and obtuse about this easily-verified fact seems pointless to me.

[whathehell]

81. Really,?

I've heard many white people described as articulate, including myself.

I can see how it's offensive when used in a tone if surprise..Otherwise, it'just a straight on compliment....

Certainly, not all white people are "articulate". One need only listen to a few Trump supporters to figure that out.

[delrem]

25. Those two really did a number on you!

You're....
a racist.

Without their calculations I would never have known.

[JonLeibowitz]

26. It's fascinating. Despite my having never known that that was a stereotype, I still

stereotyped black people by agreeing that she is well spoken in response to a cryptic first reply directly contradicting a compliment! Fuck me!

[delrem]

30. It's where they've dug in. Poor buggers...

[Luminous Animal]

43. Blank folks are not allowed to be articulate. That is a decretive solely reserved for white folks.

[Rebkeh]

3. That's a, "Wow! You speak so well!" thing

Rewording is a good idea. It implies you expected her to be inarticulate (yet another stereotype). Even if you didn't intend it to, it stings.

[kcjohn1]

4. Smart =/= Articulate

She got her points very well in tv interview. I don't think anyone else could have being more succinct and to the point in a 15min tv interview.

I watch lots of tv, and I don't think I have heard more articulate individual about any subject.

[Rebkeh]

5. Did you expect her to not be articulate?

The way you said that makes it sound like you did.

"Articulate" is a triggering word, it's almost like a dog whistle. Sort of. If you didn't know this, that's fine. That's how we overcome.

[kristopher]

10. No he didn't.

He made a pertinant observation encouraging others to click through.

I would say you're hypersensitive, but I interpret your remarks as intentional disruption, not actual concern.

[Rebkeh]

58. Disruption would letting the comment go unaddressed

And you don't know my intentions. Nor my concerns.

As for my sensitivity, you don't get to make that call.

[JonLeibowitz]

11. If kcjohn1 didn't know it was a dog whistle then how could it be something to overcome?

Aren't dog whistles intentional and knowing?

Sure, maybe trigger word, but I don't think any malice is intended. I had no idea this was a word with such a history, and I bet many others don't

[Rebkeh]

14. I said sort of. Besides, intentions don't matter as much as people think

When you open a door, say, and accidentally smack someone standing behind it. Or turn a corner and bump into another person, open a bathroom stall not knowing someone was in it... You say oops, sorry and move on. These are very simplistic examples but you get the gist. It's not intentional, obviously, but they have still been smacked.

Common decency is to admit the mistake anyway and apologize.

[kwassa]

32. It only seems hypersensitive to some white people. ..

Who don't understand that the use of the word articulate displays an ignorance of the racist history of its use.

Noting that a black person is articulate contains the expectation that blacks are not articulate.

[JonLeibowitz]

35. Only if that person is aware of the history. Otherwise it is just a trigger word.

trigger words are not always a reflection of any malice or ignorance of the speaker, just an unfortunate miscommunication.

[Rebkeh]

52. True, and yet people double down anyway

Why would anything change if people don't change?
(rhetorical question)

[whathehell]

80. So what does it mean when it's used on a white person?

I understand that it CAN be a sensitive issue when said to or about an AA person, but that"s generally only when it's said in a tone of surprise, ...It's not always said that way, and doesn't always bear those connotations..

I doubt anyone would be surprised that an educated person who authored a book would be "articulate", so I doubt that's what's going on here.

In light of that fact, what should we do -- Refuse to compliment PoC fot the same things we do whites? ..Create separate, 'race-based' vocabularies?

[kwassa]

83. I disagree with your terms of usage ...

I don't think a tone of surprise is necessary at all.

There really very few words one needs to be careful of, though, so separate vocabularies are hardly needed.

And as you pointed out, an educated book-author would be expected to be articulate, so why is it being remarked upon?

[whathehell]

97. So one should never tell a Black person they are articulate?

That seems the only conclusion, since you're dismissing tone as a factor -- the whole reason for offense given here is BECAUSE of the attitude of surprise that many find implied.

I think you may be over-sensitive on the point in this instsnce.

The reason her articulatenrss may have been remarked upon is because the listener msy have known she was a writer, but never heard her speak...The ability to speak articulately varies, even in educated people of white and other races. I really doubt there was any condesencion felt or intended by the person paying her the compliment.

[kwassa]

119. That would be a good idea.

This is not about my personal sensitivity, this is about how the use of the word is perceived by most black people. And, no, you don't get a choice or role in how they perceive it.

[whathehell]

121. Any other good qualities I should remember not to compliment black people on?

...or is the list still evolving?


Guess what, Kwassa? I think you ARE over sensitive and I know you don't speak for all African-Americans, so I think

I'll continue using my own judgement...Have a nice day.

[kwassa]

122. I hope your judgment improves with experience.

Now, go experience some black people's opinions on this subject.

[whathehell]

123. I hope yours improves with maturity..

"Now go experience some black peoples opinions on the subject"

I aready have, and my articulate Black friend thinks you're 'cute'.

[kwassa]

125. I don't know who you are ....

I am a white man married to a black woman for the past 20 years, have a black daughter, have been discussing these issues with black people online since the early 90s, have worked and socialized with black people all my adult life. I have actively studied the issues, and read a lot of black history.

From this life experience, I know what I am talking about. Many others in this thread are saying exactly the same thing, including black contributors. Yet, you seem to think you know better from your personal white experience. You don't.

Continue on in your ignorance, and you can reject my experience all you want, but don't reject the lived experience of black people.

You have no idea of what you are talking about on this topic.

edit to add, since you choose to disbelieve:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinreview/04clemet...

Definitions
The Racial Politics of Speaking Well
By LYNETTE CLEMETSON

<snip>

There are not enough column inches on this page to parse interpretations of each of Mr. Biden’s chosen adjectives. But among his string of loaded words, one is so pervasive — and is generally used and viewed so differently by blacks and whites — that it calls out for a national chat, perhaps a national therapy session.

It is amazing that this still requires clarification, but here it is. Black people get a little testy when white people call them “articulate.”

**

“You hear it and you just think, ‘Damn, this again?’ ” said Michael Eric Dyson, a professor of humanities at the University of Pennsylvania.

Anna Perez, the former communications counselor for Ms. Rice when she was national security adviser, said, “You just stand and wonder, ‘When will this foolishness end?’ ”


***

That is the core of the issue. When whites use the word in reference to blacks, it often carries a subtext of amazement, even bewilderment. It is similar to praising a female executive or politician by calling her “tough” or “a rational decision-maker.”

“When people say it, what they are really saying is that someone is articulate ... for a black person,” Ms. Perez said.

Such a subtext is inherently offensive because it suggests that the recipient of the “compliment” is notably different from other black people.

“Historically, it was meant to signal the exceptional Negro,” Mr. Dyson said. “The implication is that most black people do not have the capacity to engage in articulate speech, when white people are automatically assumed to be articulate.”

And such distinctions discount as inarticulate historically black patterns of speech. “Al Sharpton is incredibly articulate,” said Tricia Rose, professor of Africana Studies at Brown University. “But because he speaks with a cadence and style that is firmly rooted in black rhetorical tradition you will rarely hear white people refer to him as articulate.”

[whathehell]

126. I don't know who you are..

and you know me as well as you know those black people you talk to online...Welcome to the Web.

Given your name-calling and disrespectful attitude, I wouldn't normally give you the time of day,

let alone the amount of text I'm devoting here to your subject so be aware of the fact

that this is my last post to you on this matter.

Thanks for the NYT article, but it wasn't really necessary, as I'm quite familiar with VP Biden's words which I did find awful -- full

of that noxious "surprise" that I mentioned earlier and you dismissed out of hand.

My point is that it's not a "one size fits all" situation, and that the potential for offense lies in the tone

and context, not in the word itself, which is positive. -- Even the article's Anna Perez had to use the modifier "often"

not "always" when describing bow the word is used

Now, thankfully, I'm done.with this subject and done with you.

[Rebkeh]

51. Aaaand, I'm done

I tried.

[geek tragedy]

16. No one is calling kcjohn a racist. We're suggesting that they use different language.

It's just one of those things we white people have to learn.

[kristopher]

18. You are trying to use racially oriented bullshit to disrupt a thread that hurts Clinton.

http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/

[virtualobserver]

34. so concerned about the use of that word.....but not concerned with Ms. Alexander's words..

and their importance.

[Rebkeh]

55. ???

Huh?

[Fuddnik]

76. Yeah. What was this thread about again?

How to hijack a thread 101.

[kristopher]

99. Michelle Alexander: Why Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Deserve the Black Vote

Why Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Deserve the Black Vote
From the crime bill to welfare reform, policies Bill Clinton enacted—and Hillary Clinton supported—decimated black America.
By Michelle AlexanderFEBRUARY 10, 2016


Hillary Clinton loves black people. And black people love Hillary—or so it seems. Black politicians have lined up in droves to endorse her, eager to prove their loyalty to the Clintons in the hopes that their faithfulness will be remembered and rewarded. Black pastors are opening their church doors, and the Clintons are making themselves comfortably at home once again, engaging effortlessly in all the usual rituals associated with “courting the black vote,” a pursuit that typically begins and ends with Democratic politicians making black people feel liked and taken seriously. Doing something concrete to improve the conditions under which most black people live is generally not required.

Hillary is looking to gain momentum on the campaign trail as the primaries move out of Iowa and New Hampshire and into states like South Carolina, where large pockets of black voters can be found. According to some polls, she leads Bernie Sanders by as much as 60 percent among African Americans. It seems that we—black people—are her winning card, one that Hillary is eager to play.

And it seems we’re eager to get played. Again.

The love affair between black folks and the Clintons has been going on for a long time. It began back in 1992, when Bill Clinton was running for president. He threw on some shades and played the saxophone on The Arsenio Hall Show. It seems silly in retrospect, but many of us fell for that. At a time when a popular slogan was “It’s a black thing, you wouldn’t understand,” Bill Clinton seemed to get us. When Toni Morrison dubbed him our first black president, we nodded our heads. We had our boy in the White House. Or at least we thought we did.

Black voters have been remarkably loyal to the Clintons for more than 25 years. It’s true that we eventually lined up behind Barack Obama in 2008, but it’s a measure of the Clinton allure that Hillary led Obama among black voters until he started winning caucuses and primaries. Now Hillary is running again. This time she’s facing a democratic socialist who promises a political revolution that will bring universal healthcare, a living wage, an end to rampant Wall Street greed, and the dismantling of the vast prison state—many of the same goals that Martin Luther King Jr. championed at the end of his life. Even so, black folks are sticking with the Clinton brand.

What have the Clintons done to earn such devotion? Did they take extreme political risks to defend the rights of African Americans? Did they courageously stand up to right-wing demagoguery about black communities? Did they help usher in a new era of hope and prosperity for neighborhoods devastated by deindustrialization, globalization, and the disappearance of work?

No. Quite the opposite....

http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/

[Luminous Animal]

46. Really. If she were white, describing as articulate would be a good thing.

Is their no line in the sand that black folks can claim the same superlatives as white folks?

[Rebkeh]

48. Right

Like I have no idea what I'm talking about.

[geek tragedy]

53. The point is that it only gets applied to block people and

there is still the connotation of "wow you can speak in complete sentences and pronounce 'ask.'"

Start using it for white people, by all means.

[snowy owl]

103. Ridiculous! Articulate is a $5 word. I doubt you use it much. I use it a lot - I'm a teacher.

It means that one speaks well and explains clearly his or her meaning.

[whathehell]

78. Oh, bullshit..It's a compliment used on all sorts of people

What should we do...Srike the word from the dictionary and create a whole different vocabulary?
..

[stevenleser]

113. Yep, Chris Rock talked about that 20 yrs ago re: Colin Powell back in 1996

Forward to 1:33. Articulate = "Speaks so well" and is an insult

[Rebkeh]

115. Exaactly

Chris Rock!

And thanks for that. I needed the laugh.

[stevenleser]

116. As soon as I read your comment I went looking for that bit on Youtube because I never forgot it.

It was one of the more poignant lessons in white privilege and insensitive statements I ever heard. Chris Rock is a master at delivering those kinds of lessons in a funny way. I know some on the black community are not fans for a number of reasons but I think he has been an important voice.

And you're welcome!

[oasis]

8. Ann Coulter is also "articulate" and wrong most of the time.

As well as, Newt Gingrich, the late Barbara Olson, along with a scores of others who have cashed in on "Clinton Hate". The gift that keeps on giving.

[JonLeibowitz]

9. Well if you think Michelle Alexander is wrong perhaps you can use the "reply" button to explain why?

[oasis]

17. Congressional Black Caucus members, John Lewis, Gregory Meeks or

Sheila Jackson Lee could probably "articulate" my sentiments better than I could. They know Hill and Bill far better than Michelle Alexander and support her for president.

Btw, that is only a partial list of CBC members who have endorsed Hillary.

[JonLeibowitz]

20. They have never addressed the content of Michelle Alexander's commentary.

[oasis]

29. They probably chalk Michelle up as just another malcontent hitching

a ride on the Bernie bandwagon in order to get some facetime on cable.

[jillan]

33. You did not listen to a word she said. Not one minute of this interview.

If you did, that would not have been your reply because it was entirely out of context.

[oasis]

38. I saw the entire interview when it aired ealier. MA's spin

on what she claims to be Clinton's negatives, was no deal breaker.

[jillan]

40. On Msnbc? They only played a portion of it.

[oasis]

44. MSNBC yes. Coupled with the title, that portion was sufficient. nt

[delrem]

27. "articulate" is an honorary term.

Only total assholes would automatically use it to foist some racist meme.

[HereSince1628]

85. Once upon articulate referred to pronouncing all syllables present

which is to say 'standard speech'. This is a risky thing to say in public as it can be construed as meaning the person can speak in a manner better than might be expected (for some racial, sexist, economic, etc reason).

Articulate also refers to things composed of segments, and with respect to speeches and essays, it refers to constructing independent paragraphs and sub-segements that are joined into a whole communication that is coherent and follows a theme.

Of course all these words have their meanings drift over time.

[delrem]

106. In this case it means fluent in getting a great many important points across.

The word is used as an honorific and it gives the speaker proper respect for articulating many different and subtle points, that are also points of essential importance in politics, today.

It takes a real weird state of mind, in my opinion, to construe this use of the word as in any way racist.

[HereSince1628]

107. Everyone is entitled to an opinion

empathy, not a weird state of mind, requires understanding that opinions of others are connected to their feelings.

[delrem]

108. You been tokin a little bit? Hey, just keep on chooglin

[metroins]

28. I think your wording is fine

I disagree with your premise and disagree with her but....

Calling somebody articulate is a compliment.

Seeing it any other way is projection from others in my opinion.

[jillan]

31. This is the first time I have heard her speak. What a brilliant woman.

Listening to her was an educational experience.

Now - I have heard that Hayes only played 2 minutes of that interview? Is that true?
If so, I can understand why. Her brilliance and thoughtful discussion would not fit into the msnbc world of Trumpland.

"Emotional Blackmail" hmmm hmmmm hmmmmm.

I enjoyed that so much. Thanks for posting.

[BernieforPres2016]

47. Hayes only put 2 minutes of that interview into his show?

Too damaging to Hillary? Poor old Chris, he took a few cracks at defending Hillary and Bill but Ms. Alexander wasn't having it with regard to what their policies did to many African Americans, particularly those with low incomes and/or from the inner cities.

And of course, his show is always packed with 60 minutes (less ads) of vital content. I guess he had to cut something so he could spend more time talking about the horse race. How pathetic.

[jillan]

54. They have to make sure that they report on every thing Trump did and said today.

[delrem]

36. A brilliant speaker,

didn't miss a beat.
Music to my ears.

[Recursion]

62. See? That wasn't so hard

Much better, thanks.

[delrem]

72. shiver..... /nt

[Doctor_J]

69. Wow. The sjw managed to hijack this thread.

Now where were we?

[BernieforPres2016]

88. Thanks for introducing me to sjw. I had to look it up and it is a perfect descriptor

I was wondering if it was only me who was so put off by it.

[oswaldactedalone]

70. After hearing her speak

There's no doubt that she says many good things in a most articulate way.

[Jitter65]

71. But her reporting is slanted and incomplete.

Alexander's entire reason for why blacks should not vote for Hillary is fraught with innuendo and misleading attacks on Bill and Hillary Clinton.

First off...let's set one thing straight. Bernie voted for this bill. Hillary Clinton did not and could not.

Second, most of the Black Caucus also voted for this bill. Reasons some use to support their vote was that the bill included an assault weapons ban, midnight basketball, violence against women and several other features that were attractive to the yeas. Two previous and much harsher versions were vetoed by Bill Clinton.

Third, the GOP that voted against it did so because of they regarded it as too soft on crime and looked at it as welfare bill for criminals..."hug a thug" was there meme.

So it is quite disingenuous for Alexander to place the blame for passage of this bill on Hillary's shoulders. And it is shameful, to me, for Chris to bring this up again (Alexander had appeared on several shows soon after her piece was published) just before a critical WI primary. No one of opposing views appeared. (If anyone thinks this more appropriately belongs in the GD-Primary feel free to copy and post it there).

http://reason.com/blog/2015/04/30/former-cbc-chair-who-voted-for-1994-crim

[oasis]

86. "Reporting"? Michelle A. is intentionally "distorting".

She's aware there's always a buck to be made from Clintonhate, so Michelle doesn't mind setting up shop near an old, established ATM.

[delrem]

109. woah! That's deep criticism.

You sure do show your disrespect for her and her point of view.
You show your true intellect.
You're so cool.

[oasis]

110. A hack is a hack, no matter how "articulate" they may be. nt

[delrem]

111. By not saying anything except ad hominem, you don't show yourself well. /nt

[oasis]

114. Of course it's okay for M.A. to highlight the Clinton's negatives .

22+million jobs created. Many other pluses.

Whatever.

[delrem]

117. Michelle Alexander made assertions about Clinton's negatives.

If you want to dispute those facts, go ahead.
In fact you haven't addressed anything that she spoke of.

Michelle Alexander only touched on the surface.

What Alexander is saying is that we can do better.
That there are problems that need to be addressed, but if they are addressed, we can do better.

[oasis]

118. Every politician AND every journalist can do better. (eom)

[delrem]

120. deep.

[Armstead]

73. Amazing that within this long thread, there are only a few replies about what she actually said

She gives a long explanation of the situation in America as she sees it, filled with details to back up her premises.

Agree or disagree with her. Fine.

But to spend so much bandwidth on whether or not the use of "articulate" is appropriate in the link.

Classic case of forests and trees.

Sort of proves her point actually.

[Fuddnik]

77. Thread Hijacking 101.

[delrem]

112. Hillary Clinton's supporters have a limited repertoire.

They can't discuss fact and issues because she's a bought and paid for neocon, in the pocket of any war profiteer with deep enough pockets. That's as extreme right as it gets.

So they have to hire professional mudslingers, and find a way that they can be PAC funded and yet coordinated with her campaign, and so we have the state of the Dem primary contest today.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

74. I had heard of Bernie Sanders (been listening to Thom since 2008) and the new Jim Crow Laws, but had

never heard of Michelle Alexander until she wrote her article prior to South Carolina. I fell in love with her because, as a white man, it was nice to hear a black woman saying what I can only observe, and so much more, of course. But, it turns out, she's every bit of a lightning rod for having said it, so being a white guy really wasn't all-that, after all.

[nc4bo]

75. She IS incredibly articulate and Hayes let her talk! I really enjoyed the interview!

So much better than listening to the same old talking points, Trump coverage and other superficial political chatter I've been hearing.

[BernieforPres2016]

89. Hayes let her talk because he was cowed by her

He made 2 or 3 attempts to defend Hillary and then gave up when Ms. Alexander wasn't having it (but stayed very polite). I think Hayes was hypersensitive to being criticized if he interrupted and tried to speak over a widely respected female African American scholar. Can anybody imagine Hayes letting Bernie talk like that?

[nc4bo]

91. Heh. Really.

I found myself wanting this woman to run for a public office.

Change the Democractic party's direction or harness this powerful movement currently led by Sanders.

[islandmkl]

79. good post...it is amazing that you brought out the thought police as opposed to comments

about the link...

i would say several posters revealed their own tendencies while they were attacking you for using the word 'articulate'...

and, i would submit, they really weren't very ARTICULATE in their posts...

[hopemountain]

82. when a person uses the "articulate"

or "well spoken" describer, to the ears of the person of color, a distinct element of surprise is heard. this is what is offensive.

it is offensive because it tells the audience that this person of color is an exception and worthy in a bigoted society - unlike so many other persons of color of "their kind". this is the insult - whether the describer is aware or not.

there are many layers of discrimination and classicism in our society and others throughout the world. this is not just about one being a person of color. these are layers compressed like sediment through time. layers and layers set according to depth, shades of color, to how poor or educated or immigrated, one's sex, one's lifestyle, one's religion, etc...many, many layers - all of which are cemented with hate, ignorance, and even the word "tolerance".

i qualify my post by stating i am a woman of color, understanding my qualifying stems from a conscience of origin and as a message to nurture awareness and understand. the irony is it continues to reinforce my place among the layers.

in a good way, hopemountain

[BernieforPres2016]

92. I am going to suggest politely that you need to learn to look at individual situations and context

I am a white male who tries to be color blind but I know I have my blind spots like everybody else. I had to look up this issue of how the word "articulate" somehow became a racist insult last night. The first two references I saw were stupid and ham handed descriptions that Democrats Harry Reid and Joe Biden used to describe Barack Obama and to explain his political success. Both of those numbskulls should have been sent to sensitivity training. The original post in this thread bore no resemblance to either of those remarks.

Are we now not allowed to use the same adjectives to compliment African Americans as we do to compliment Caucasians, because when applied to African Americans a compliment becomes an insult because it somehow implies that we expected them to be the opposite by default?

[dana_b]

84. yes she is

I just watched this last night. What a brilliant woman. I must read her book now

[litlbilly]

93. She is absolutely right on the money. I hope this interview goes viral as it should.

[dana_b]

94. I know that it was pretty popular on twitter

but yes, more people need to see it

[asuhornets]

87. Never heard of her...GO HILLARY!!!

[nc4bo]

90. Go educate yourself. You might learn something besides what establishment is selling you. nt

[snowy owl]

104. Law degree from Stanford and recipient of a 2005 Soros Justice Fellowship of the Open Society Ins.

Perhaps this willdiversify and enhance your information base. Try this from Wiki:

Michelle Alexander (born October 7, 1967[1]) is an associate professor of law at Ohio State University, a civil rights advocate and writer. She is best known for her 2010 book The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness

Alexander graduated from Vanderbilt University, where she received a Truman Scholarship. She received a law degree from the Stanford Law School.


Alexander served for several years as director of the Racial Justice Project at the ACLU of Northern California, which spearheaded a national campaign against racial profiling by law enforcement. Alexander directed the Civil Rights Clinic at Stanford Law School and was a law clerk for Justice Harry Blackmun at the U. S. Supreme Court and for Chief Judge Abner Mikva on the United States Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. As an associate at Saperstein, Goldstein, Demchak & Baller, she specialized in plaintiff-side class action suits alleging race and gender discrimination.[2]

Alexander now holds a joint appointment at the Kirwan Institute for the Study of Race and Ethnicity and the Moritz College of Law at Ohio State.[2]

Alexander has litigated numerous class action discrimination cases and worked on criminal justice reform issues. She is a recipient of a 2005 Soros Justice Fellowship of the Open Society Institute

[JackRiddler]

95. Excellent. Sorry this thread was derailed by idiocy.

But that's the way it goes. Almost as if a whole team is waiting and reloading the forum page every few seconds, so as to jump immediately into all new threads (if they are viewed as a threat) and use some single word (correct English usage, in this case) or aspect of the headline or mere insult to cause exchanges completely irrelevant to the thread subject.

So here we have Michelle Alexander - Michelle Alexander! - talking about her research and criticizing Hillary Clinton. That's what this thread should be about.

[kristopher]

98. Every nexus where opposition to the elite's choice (HRC) shall be eliminated...

Every nexus where opposition to the HRC may coalesce shall be eliminated, coopted, or obstructed.
Signed David Brock

[panader0]

96. WTF? "articulate" is racist? What complete bull.

Any person of any race who is well spoken can be articulate. I have never seen the likes of this,
that using the word articulate is somehow racist. Good grief. Perhaps the folks who think it is
are projecting their own prejudices.

[kristopher]

100. Michelle Alexander: Why Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Deserve the Black Vote

Why Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Deserve the Black Vote
From the crime bill to welfare reform, policies Bill Clinton enacted—and Hillary Clinton supported—decimated black America.
By Michelle Alexander
FEBRUARY 10, 2016


Hillary Clinton loves black people. And black people love Hillary—or so it seems. Black politicians have lined up in droves to endorse her, eager to prove their loyalty to the Clintons in the hopes that their faithfulness will be remembered and rewarded. Black pastors are opening their church doors, and the Clintons are making themselves comfortably at home once again, engaging effortlessly in all the usual rituals associated with “courting the black vote,” a pursuit that typically begins and ends with Democratic politicians making black people feel liked and taken seriously. Doing something concrete to improve the conditions under which most black people live is generally not required.

Hillary is looking to gain momentum on the campaign trail as the primaries move out of Iowa and New Hampshire and into states like South Carolina, where large pockets of black voters can be found. According to some polls, she leads Bernie Sanders by as much as 60 percent among African Americans. It seems that we—black people—are her winning card, one that Hillary is eager to play.

And it seems we’re eager to get played. Again.

The love affair between black folks and the Clintons has been going on for a long time. It began back in 1992, when Bill Clinton was running for president. He threw on some shades and played the saxophone on The Arsenio Hall Show. It seems silly in retrospect, but many of us fell for that. At a time when a popular slogan was “It’s a black thing, you wouldn’t understand,” Bill Clinton seemed to get us. When Toni Morrison dubbed him our first black president, we nodded our heads. We had our boy in the White House. Or at least we thought we did.

Black voters have been remarkably loyal to the Clintons for more than 25 years. It’s true that we eventually lined up behind Barack Obama in 2008, but it’s a measure of the Clinton allure that Hillary led Obama among black voters until he started winning caucuses and primaries. Now Hillary is running again. This time she’s facing a democratic socialist who promises a political revolution that will bring universal healthcare, a living wage, an end to rampant Wall Street greed, and the dismantling of the vast prison state—many of the same goals that Martin Luther King Jr. championed at the end of his life. Even so, black folks are sticking with the Clinton brand.

What have the Clintons done to earn such devotion? Did they take extreme political risks to defend the rights of African Americans? Did they courageously stand up to right-wing demagoguery about black communities? Did they help usher in a new era of hope and prosperity for neighborhoods devastated by deindustrialization, globalization, and the disappearance of work?

No. Quite the opposite....

http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/

[LWolf]

101. Thank you

for refocusing this thread on the whole point: What Alexander has to say, rather than how she says it or how the OP worded the post.

More:



Clinton mastered the art of sending mixed cultural messages, appealing to African Americans by belting out “Lift Every Voice and Sing” in black churches, while at the same time signaling to poor and working-class whites that he was willing to be tougher on black communities than Republicans had been.

Clinton was praised for his no-nonsense, pragmatic approach to racial politics. He won the election and appointed a racially diverse cabinet that “looked like America.” He won re-election four years later, and the American economy rebounded. Democrats cheered. The Democratic Party had been saved. The Clintons won. Guess who lost?



Some might argue that it’s unfair to judge Hillary Clinton for the policies her husband championed years ago. But Hillary wasn’t picking out china while she was first lady. She bravely broke the mold and redefined that job in ways no woman ever had before. She not only campaigned for Bill; she also wielded power and significant influence once he was elected, lobbying for legislation and other measures. That record, and her statements from that era, should be scrutinized. In her support for the 1994 crime bill, for example, she used racially coded rhetoric to cast black children as animals. “They are not just gangs of kids anymore,” she said. “They are often the kinds of kids that are called ‘super-predators.’ No conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heel.”



Of course, the idea of building a new political party terrifies most progressives, who understandably fear that it would open the door for a right-wing extremist to get elected. So we play the game of lesser evils. This game has gone on for decades. W.E.B. Du Bois, the eminent scholar and co-founder of the NAACP, shocked many when he refused to play along with this game in the 1956 election, defending his refusal to vote on the grounds that “there is but one evil party with two names, and it will be elected despite all I do or say.” While the true losers and winners of this game are highly predictable, the game of lesser evils makes for great entertainment and can now be viewed 24 hours a day on cable-news networks. Hillary believes that she can win this game in 2016 because this time she’s got us, the black vote, in her back pocket—her lucky card.

She may be surprised to discover that the younger generation no longer wants to play her game.

http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/

[kristopher]

105. You're welcome.

Disruptor will disrupt - that's what they do.

Notice how Bernie handles the media during interviews. It's the perfect model.