2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumA Dark Turn For Bernie Sanders's Campaign
While I understand the need to maintain a brave face for his supporters, Sanders is doing them and the party he wants to represent no favors not just by misleading them about his chances, but by increasing their dislike of Clinton. Sanders has said on more than one occasion that he thinks Clinton on her worst day would be an infinitely better candidate and president than the Republican candidate on his best day. I have no doubt that he believes this. Perhaps he should start acting like it.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/04/01/dark-turn-for-sanders-campaign/iQXKhLKcLadSzNhbxo2WOI/story.html
GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)Has outraised her in total fundraising to campaign committees!
He has raised 183.8 Million, She has Raised 183.628 Million.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)If so certain Hillarians are that she has this wrapped up, why cower in fear at the prospect of the nomination going all the way to the convention?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Nobody is stopping them by writing ops
Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)It is a waste of time and money that could better be spent on the general...the whole idea is to beat the GOP not beat the crap out of Democrats.
CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)I know I'm enjoying the irony.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I watch people twist into pretzels
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)if you leave put the fact that he isn't using super pacs and not having dinners with the clooneys at 335,000 a plate, but you knew that, you were just being silly in your support for hilly.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Thanks, DUzy
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)So, I don't know how you define irony, but that doesn't seem to fit the definition.
politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)better spent elsewhere. So tell the truth. Those were not primaries state.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)So, if Hillary didn't spend the resources in those states, that's her fault.
Henhouse
(646 posts)Loudestlib
(980 posts)MineralMan
(146,255 posts)Others don't. Minnesota does. Iowa doesn't.
Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)I doubt he has as many voters as Hillary had in Arizona for all the Caucuses.
DamnYankeeInHouston
(1,365 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Just that he should go back to focusing on the issues themselves like he did at the beginning.
karynnj
(59,498 posts)He should not point out differences in his long held positions and her ever changing ones. He should not counter her more hawkish than Obama foreign policy with a slightly more dovish one.
He should on any HRC negative stay silent or better yet dismiss it as he did the emails. He should do that even as HRC herself says he is a one issue candidate and implies he cates about nothing else.
He also is held responsible for anything said by not just his official surrogates, but anyone said to be his supporter and even people not supporting him, but against HRC. On the other hand, people are supposed to ignore HRC hatchetman, David Brock. If Bernie is now turning to the dark side, which I do not believe, by the same standards the HRC went there months ago.
The most remarkable thing to me about the present moment is that HRC with tremendous party support and the Lion's share of mainstream media's support looks so angry when there is any pushback, whether a reporter, asking a tough question, or a protester. From all past races I have watched, going back to JFK, where I understood none of the issues, I don't think I have seen as angry and unhappy a winner.
Looking at HRC and Bernie, without knowing she is something like 250 pledged delegates ahead. Yet, their demeanors make sense. HRC expected no competition and already having wrapped up this nomination by now. As Bernie said few who saw his announcement on the lake expected him to still be in.
I would not be surprised if Democratic PTB told Bernie to drop out after the 5 state loss just as the calendar was reaching his best states. There has been a change in tone with screeds like this. In fairness, many probably told HRC to concede before the end last time ... and like Bernie she did not before all the voting was over.
Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)WE count delegates...no matter how much money he has...he is not winning.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)sheshe2
(83,654 posts)My town.
Link please,.
Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)And the worst thing is he knows it.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)still trash thread.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)coming out to a broader audience and THAT IS A POSITIVE Development!
Bernie Quit... F*** NO! We are going to WIN this thing...
Listen to Rosario Dawson in New York!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Do not agree with her, but I still love her to death.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)I could run away with her and not look back, lol
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Bonus!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)what non-Clinton supporters might think (while nevertheless continuing with the (usually, ill-judged) propaganda bombardment.)
One might suspect, however, that the factor you indicate might, as is clearly the case as regards her preferred candidate, um, what is the verb I am looking for, um, influence her position and her policies going forward.
¿How much did you say?
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)He's been hitting her in every speech, and rightly so.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)/IGNORE!!!!!!!
Autumn
(44,981 posts)I'm not going to hold my breath though.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Just one.
sheshe2
(83,654 posts)our candidate not swarmed stalked and hidden. Ya can't have it both ways.
You all got your wish, for the most part we are gone. We went elsewhere 'cause we were alert stalked off the board. That is a fact.
You come into our safe haven and stalk us for hides. I have 4 there. One was an appreciation thread for a member who was stalked. I got a hide.
So Autumn, I will be happy to give you plenty of links about how awesome she is, yet won't do it here to be swarmed. You want facts, I have plenty, yet will not waste by breath here. This place has become an echo chamber.
I have much more to say, yet I can no longer say it here. DU/BU is no longer about free speech unless you support BS.
Autumn
(44,981 posts)One of your members got a hide on me in my group and then sent me a lovely message bragging about it, suggesting I have a lovely Hillary day. However some Hillary supporters never post about Hillary. Only post about Bernie. I used to wonder why but but then someone posted a PM .
Sorry she, I never open your OPs so I would miss any links you posted. Haven't been interested since the not good enough crap.
sheshe2
(83,654 posts)I am posting pro Obama OPs. I post pro AA posts. I post pro women Ops.
I am out of here for the most part.
You don't post to me for the not good enough post. Well, I sure as hell hope you condemned the brick post. Oh, and the one about William769. Advocating sexual violence against a woman and a member of LGBT is not acceptable to me. You condemned those, correct?
Autumn
(44,981 posts)Where were you on all the nasty things said and directed toward Bernie and Bernie supporters? I'll tell you where, cheering it on. Not good enough she. Not good enough.
PufPuf23
(8,755 posts)Look at his twitter.
He used to be a speech writer in the State Department.
One can find nasty stuff he wrote about POTUS Obama in 2008.
He has a long history with the Clintons.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)their best interests. It's authoritarian adulation. Clinton has never been nice to the AA community. Read below what Black Lives Matter thinks about Clinton. Do you support her positions on fracking, the TPP, the Patriot Act, arctic drilling, Prisons For Profits?
Authoritarian adulation.
shawn703
(2,702 posts)Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)This is hilarious!
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,525 posts)Bernie is doing what he said he would do--take it all the way to the Convention.
And we're there with him.
None of us are quitters.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I just have my opinion
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,525 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,525 posts)If he ends it then, at the start of the Convention, then I would say no, he has not misled us.
So what?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)At that point, if (as is very likely to be the case), Hillary Clinton has a majority of all pledged delegates AND a majority of the superdelegates, do you think he should concede or spend his time lobbying all of the superdelegates to get them to switch until the convention in July?
It seems very obvious that if he has lost the primary voting, he would not contest the nomination at the convention. Clinton did not contest the convention in 2008.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,525 posts)I'm sure though that he would not contest it if he'd lost the primary voting.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)That would be the responsible thing to do.
But that would not be fighting until the convention.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,525 posts)DeGreg
(72 posts)Let the process play out. There are 2 candidates trying to win one spot. Regardless of the score, we play the full nine innings. And we'll find out the winner in the end.
Would you like baseball to change the rules and have games stopped prematurely because one team starts scoring runs, causing the other team to worry about the possibility of losing? It's just the kind of argument that reveals the fear that your candidateHillarycould lose to Bernie, should the big-mo continue.
This argument is motivated by the same thing that causes folks to suggest that Democrats must vote for the Democrat (or the right kind of Democrat) -- even when the Democrat is no longer a Democrat (present case providing the example). IMHO, being against voting your conscience is always wrong. Voting your conscience is never a bad thing; the bad thing is too many people don't have a conscience at all or have had their conscience scared out of them by "realists" who like THE WAY THINGS ARE and want them to stay that way (or by people so full of fear that they can't make a vote based on a positive vision of the future, as opposed basing your vote on a negative vision of the future).
People want to talk about doing what's right for the party--that's crap-if that includes voting against my conscience or voting for a candidate with a shady conscience, then, I'm out. I say Democrats with a conscience need to spread their good conscience instead of encouraging others to compromise theirs.
So folks, shut up about when Bernie or Hillary might unite the partywe aint there yet (and your fear is quite pungent).
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Just wondering.
sheshe2
(83,654 posts)We are no longer allowed an opinion here.
Message received, we are no longer welcome. We post. We get a hide.
The Hill group is stalked. I did an OP for a member that was abused on a thread, started by a troll that is now gone. She was abused and it went to the top of the page .RECed. That is not how we treat our own. My Op was hidden. Another troll lied about a thread, I got a hide and then they were banned shortly after. Ya want the filth in the links. I will send them to you if you wish Peggy. One was the brick post that stood and a DU jury gave me the hide for mentioning it. It was so very ugly and it was left. tears for every woman that was abused in their life. We are the victim and not the enemy.
I may post more on other sites, yet I am not a quitter either. I will not alow you all to run us off a Democratic board, well it use to be one.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,525 posts)These things should not be happening to either group.
I am sorry that things have gotten so ugly.
You are not the enemy, not as far as I'm concerned anyway.
sheshe2
(83,654 posts)Yet Sanders peeps feeling abused when they own the board and jury is silly. We have left, many will never return. The only reason I can post is Skinners Amnesty. WE are juried off this board in large numbers. I have had offensive comments from jurors. One wanted to punch me in the face.
This place is ugly.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,525 posts)We feel that since Skinner is pro-Hillary, then we are endangered. We really feel that way.
And remember that you can alert on jury results, esp. when you've been abused. You do have recourse.
We feel the ugliness too.
I hope that once we have a nominee, whoever it is, that things will get better.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)no matter how much dogshit propaganda is posted on the net. Sorry.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Extra ominous for no reason
Nanjeanne
(4,915 posts)Strength and her favor ability rating should be soaring.
tokenlib
(4,186 posts)The Third Way DNC can FUCK OFF! And the more you Clinton supporters try to shut the door, the more you push people away to either stay home or to get better acquainted with Jill. So for the well being of the Democratic Party, Stop the dead horse abuse. Stop threatening people with Trump and Cruz. Just Stop!
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Mike Nelson
(9,944 posts)...he began by running against "Big Money Wall Street Corruption" - then, he gave it the face of Hillary Clinton. If he thought it out that way, it's quite masterful. Many won't ever vote for her, which is a credit to the "dark" campaign noted in the OP. He made her the enemy, not simply a political opponent. I still think she'll win, but there will be permanent damage.
CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)at nearly every turn. The press isn't satisfied with the same old blather, and even many of his friendly media surrogates are openly questioning his tactics and his sincerity to the campaign he pledged to run, which they're finally admitting is not the one he's currently operating.
-His criticism of Clinton's donations from energy industry employees has backfired because he has to answer for his own similar donations.
-His missing tax returns are becoming an issue as the press stops buying the excuse of the summary form he released.
-His financial reporting exposes how many millions of his small donations he's spent to buy online marketing, which explains the massive presence of his internet troll army.
All the momentum in the world isn't going to matter once the wheels fall off.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)oligarchy that is trying to push Clinton into the WH.
Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)sorry I voted for him in Ohio...what he has done is unforgivable. He has put the entire country at risk and for what? His ego?
HughLefty1
(231 posts)I would be extremely disappointed not to have the opportunity to cast my vote for Bernie on June 7th.
Not to mention my guess is HRC would pivot back to the right to suit her corporate masters. No thanks!
Bernie's platform needs to be carried all the way to the convention and hopefully beyond.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Those issues Sanders has spoke of for decades, this is his time to make those important issues- National Issues. Sanders can put a number to how many American voters support his policies vs Mrs. Clintons policies.
I expect Sanders to 'stick it out' through our entire Primary process. Every voter in every state will have their chance to vote for their primary choice. Neither of them are quitters.
Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)Time and money should be spent on the general and bringing the party together...waste of time and endangers the entire election.
msongs
(67,361 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)from getting killed in Clinton wars. What are you fighting for? More wealth for the Clintons? More wealth for Goldman-Sachs?
Elect Clinton and kiss Social Security goodbye, not that you care. The wealth of the Clinton Aristocracy is most important.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Posting on the internet is not a 'Revolution'.
JI7
(89,240 posts)and posted on just about all internet forums.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)People just cannot handle me telling them shit
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)You admit that what you tell is "shit."
Good first step!
revbones
(3,660 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Get started whenever you're ready.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)This one will go down in history as The Bern Offensive of GDP, know for brutal hand-to-hand combat, senseless slaughter of innocents, and rampant trench mouth infections. People will be digging up the bones of lost combatants for decades.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)does a terrible job of televising the revolution. But one gets a glimpse via social media and the internets. More than one million people have turned out to root Sen Sanders on in stadiums all across this country. Not that one would know if they had their head up the corp-media. Millions of dollars have been donated to his campaign by ordinary people that normally do not support what they see as a corrupt culture in which Clinton has prospered while we have suffered. I see the suffering on a daily basis and it's from the greed of the Clinton Class.
Once again, there are two sides to this class war and for some strange reason that you can't or won't explain, you side with the Ruling Class. The Class that brought us 2.2 million citizens in prisons, a war that killed a million innocent Iraqi's and thousands of our troops. For money. For greed. They have brought us 50,000,000 Americans living in poverty. Yet you side with them. The Clinton Class are out to amass as much money as they can at the expense of the lower classes.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)Namely, to give Hillary the room she needs to move left, as she did on the TPP and the KXL. We know that folks on the right are putting pressure one her to move right, so there can be pressure to move left.
Now, none of this excuses the barking mad actions by some Sanders supporters, the ones that cost Bernie my vote. However, the fact is, if no one else was running, the folks like Debbie Wassermann Schultz would be trying to push her so far to the right that she could become a very easy target.
Red Oak
(697 posts)I'm surprised he didn't "turn dark" earlier.
A person can only take so much and then has to stand up and call bullshit. Sec. Clinton along with DWS and the rest, have themselves to blame.
Go Bernie. You are making a yuge difference and the Democratic party will never be the same!
All the way to the convention.
delrem
(9,688 posts)especially since you're taking a breather from the race based OPs.
Whatever can you do?
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Sanders is not making us dislike Hillary Clinton - we simply don't think she is the best candidate and we are choosing to vote in the primary for the candidate we think is best.
That is what the primary is about choosing the very best candidate for US personally. So you have to just accept that we are doing what we are supposed to do.
If people don't like Hillary Clinton - that is her fault.
3hummingbirds
(58 posts)There is no way he should drop out. Hillary stayed in until the convention, why is this different?
aikoaiko
(34,162 posts)Good day or bad.
The lesser of two evils is a viable strategy for HRC.
And if a significant number of likely Democratic voters agree, then Bernie IS doing the party a favor by articulating this view. Speaking the truth, as many see it, is not a dark turn, but shining a light into the dark.
Nedsdag
(2,437 posts)Response to bravenak (Original post)
Post removed
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)I know all you're capable of is posting gross distortions and smears but it's getting tiresome.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)Those libertarian organizations like
Boston Globe and Washington Post do like Hllary, why is that?
Cha
(296,848 posts)Obama, too. They need to justify his so-called revolution.
The President @ a strong 53% isn't cutting it for them. dawson is tweeting stupid shite about Obama on why his Presidency isn't successful.
I cannot wait until these people fade into the junk pile of history.
Thank you for this brave.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)DebDoo
(319 posts)At a rally in the South Bronx Thursday night, Sanders offered the same critique laying out a litany of differences between him and Clinton. These attacks led to booing of Clintons name, something that Sanders once spoke out against but now allows to go on without reproach.
Look at that, even the author recognizes Bernie's "attacks" on Hillary are nothing but a list of differences between him and Hillary.
Vinca
(50,237 posts)It certainly would be a dark turn if Bernie suddenly dropped out and said Hillary was the better candidate.
mainer
(12,018 posts)Remember that awful speech she gave about not giving up when Obama's delegate count essentially assured him the nomination?
Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)It is hard to lose and she was way closer than Bernie...she had a chance up until the last few primaries...but she supported Obama and brought about healing...Bernie who much know he is losing and sowed the seed of division even now.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)at the State Department under Hillary Clinton. One might even assume.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)But it appears that he has lost sight of WHY he was in the race in the first place. Because instead raising awareness on economic issues, it has become a politics-as-usual slugfest. I guess t is the nature of the game and he really can't help himself, but isn't he supposed to be above all of this?
The thing is, he has VERY little chance of actually winning this thing, so by increasing the personal attacks, he is decreasing his eventual ability to actually advance his issues after the election.
grntuscarora
(1,249 posts)My family believes he is by far the best choice to lead this country and this op writer would deprive us of the great pride of voting for him in the primary?
Screw that!
Thank you Bernie, for taking it to the convention!!
And I'm sorry for you that so many people dislike your candidate. But she brought that about all on her own.
brewens
(13,538 posts)Bernie! He was always what democrats should have been from the start.
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Cowpunk
(719 posts)Nope, not everyone. But certainly you, Mr. "Nate Silver sees all, knows all".
Gothmog
(144,920 posts)From the Boston Globe https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/04/01/dark-turn-for-sanders-campaign/iQXKhLKcLadSzNhbxo2WOI/story.html
Sanders is increasingly embracing the tactics he once decried. Rather than trying to unify the Democratic Party behind its almost certain nominee, Hillary Clinton, he is ramping up the attacks against her. While once Sanders refused even to mention Clintons name, now he doesnt go a day without hitting her.
And the focus of his attacks is always the same that she is too close to Wall Street, that she has flip-flopped on trade, and that she was wrong on the Iraq War. In Ohio last month, he said, I proudly stood with the workers! Secretary Clinton stood with the big money interests!....
Theres also the much bigger question of why he is doing this. Sanders likes to tell his supporters that he has the momentum to win the Democratic nomination. But the simple fact is that it would take a miracle for Sanders to overtake Clintons wide delegate lead. As campaign stat guru Nate Silver pointed out recently, even in the most optimistic scenario for Sanders, he would still likely fall short.
While I understand the need to maintain a brave face for his supporters, Sanders is doing them and the party he wants to represent no favors not just by misleading them about his chances, but by increasing their dislike of Clinton. Sanders has said on more than one occasion that he thinks Clinton on her worst day would be an infinitely better candidate and president than the Republican candidate on his best day. I have no doubt that he believes this. Perhaps he should start acting like it.
oasis
(49,328 posts)may have tipped his hand by her suggestion on how to accelerate the "revolution".