2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHow Badly Did Voter Suppression in Maricopa County Hurt Bernie in Arizona?
I noted yesterday that in this Tuesdays Arizona Democratic primary, Maricopa County, the largest county in Arizona, reduced the number of polling places open compared to 2012 from over 200 to 60, and that consequently, people spent entire work days waiting in line to vote, as voting lines stretched for over half a mile. Undoubtedly, many of them had to leave before voting, in order to avoid missing work, which Im sure many of them could ill afford. The County recorder justified this blatant incident of voter suppression by claiming that turnout is traditionally low in Maricopa County.
But I did not make an effort in that post to estimate how much the vote was actually suppressed in Maricopa County and how badly that might have hurt Bernies chances in Arizona. The Maricopa County website statistics on Tuesdays primary sheds some very interesting light on those questions.
That website shows that Clinton won the early voting part of the election in Maricopa County 118,832 to 71,019, over Sanders, a margin of 66.1% to 33.9%. The website also gives the total vote count, which also shows Clinton winning the total vote in Maricopa County, but by a little less. What it doesnt do is specifically show us the statistics for Election Day voting. No problem. Those can be obtained by merely subtracting the early voting statistics from the total voting statistics.
The Election Day voting, which Bernie won by 19,883 to 12,802, shows us two very significant things. First, that Bernie won the voting on Election Day over Clinton by 60.8% to 39.2% in Maricopa County, quite a difference from the early voting margins. And second, it shows us that Election Day voting in Maricopa County accounted for only 14.7% of the total vote. I find that astounding! I have never heard of a presidential or any other election, where Election Day voting accounted for so low a percent of the total vote. This strongly suggests, in my opinion, that the effects of the voter suppression in Maricopa County were huge. Could it be that only 14.7% of voters who voted intended to vote on Election Day? There are three facts that strongly suggest otherwise. One is the 70% reduction in polling places, resulting in half mile lines that resulted in many people having to stand in line for several hours to vote. Another is the mis-categorization of Democratic voters as independent voters, who were therefore not allowed to vote. And the other is that, if one analyzes the data from the Arizona website, along with information on the overall Arizona data on early voting, one can calculate that Election Day voting in the Democratic primary in the rest of Arizona averaged 59.1% rather than 14.7%.
If one makes the reasonable assumption that in the absence of voter suppression, the Election Day voting percentage in Maricopa County would have been similar to that in the rest of Arizona, that would mean that more than 240 thousand additional voters would have voted on Election Day in the Democratic primary in Maricopa County. And assuming that Bernies margin of winning those extra votes over Clinton on Election Day was similar to the Election Day votes that were counted in Maricopa County, that would have meant that Bernie would have lost Arizona by about 2%, rather than by the almost 20% that he actually lost by in the official count. Also, keep in mind that these calculations are somewhat conservative, because they make no assumptions that the voter suppression in Maricopa County was targeted to Sanders areas. But why would anyone bother with voter suppression if it wasnt targeted for or against a specific candidate? If the voter suppression was targeted to any extent to Sanders strongholds, that means that he probably would have won Arizona in the absence of any voter suppression.

dchill
(42,080 posts)Bernie won the voting on Election Day over Clinton by 60.8% to 39.2% in Maricopa County, quite a difference from the early voting margins. And second, it shows us that Election Day voting in Maricopa County accounted for only 14.7% of the total vote. I find that astounding! I have never heard of a presidential or any other election, where Election Day voting accounted for so low a percent of the total vote. This strongly suggests, in my opinion, that the effects of the voter suppression in Maricopa County were huge. Could it be that only 14.7% of voters who voted intended to vote on Election Day?
Time for change
(13,737 posts)dchill
(42,080 posts)who get bleary-eyed with the miles of fine print that need to be sifted through every day in the world of election "shenanigans."
PufPuf23
(9,373 posts)I figured that Clinton was favored by early votes but had no idea by how much the election potentially shifted the results in favor of Clinton.
I am pretty convinced that the GOP would rather have Clinton than Sanders in the general POTUS election.
dchill
(42,080 posts)The media were somehow able to "project" the winner with a small % of the vote in, a count that already included the known Clinton early vote advantage, and yet only 14% of Maricopa County had even voted. This "projection" happened while people were in line at the 60 available polling places. The "winner's" victory speech also took place while people had not yet voted. Less than 14% had voted!
flor-de-jasmim
(2,206 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Tom Rinaldo
(23,092 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)Time for change
(13,737 posts)FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)is one of Them
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)planned to vote.
Anything else is conjecture
Time for change
(13,737 posts)then whey would anyone ever bother with voter suppression?
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)I think that Dems and Repubs were in that line to vote
brush
(59,597 posts)They don't care if it was Bernie or Hillary supporters who had to wait hours in line.
They needed to see it their plan would work.
And btw, this closing of all those polling places only came about because the Supreme Court gutter the voting rights act in 2013. Before that, Arizona would have had to get federal approval to close polling places, something not likely to have been granted.
This is the first presidential election since Roberts, Scalia, Thomas and the rest of the right wingers on the court gutted voting rights.
lostnfound
(16,928 posts)We all care about voter disenfranchisement. Because we are all Democrats.
paulthompson
(2,398 posts)Nice work. Those are some stunning numbers.
It's a shame journalists aren't noticing these same things and publishing them in Arizona newspapers. Maybe you should try contacting some journalists with these numbers?
One thing I feel probably isn't well known enough is just how populous Maricopa County is. It has 4 million out of the 7 million people in Arizona. So screwing with that one county could drastically effect the results of the entire state.
You might want to look into Pima County too. It seems there were a lot of problems there too, including not enough polling places.
Something I'd like to know: has it been reported just how many people cast provisional ballots? And will those get counted, and if so, when? I figure a lot of the dramatic difference between the election day voting numbers in Maricopa County compared to other counties is because so many people who were legitimately registered as Democrats were forced to use provisional ballots.
Time for change
(13,737 posts)In my post from yesterday I included a link that talked about people who were mis-categorized as independent voters and told that they therefore could not vote. They were given provisional ballots but told that the provisional ballots would not be counted because the system listed them as an independent voter.
http://usuncut.com/politics/5-examples-voter-suppression-arizona-primary/
paulthompson
(2,398 posts)Yes, but how many of those people are there?! It's been a few days since the election. Certainly someone must know by now how many provisional ballots were cast. What is that number?! Which official could be asked who would know?
Uncle Joe
(61,466 posts)Thanks for the the thread, Time for change.
Time for change
(13,737 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)morningglory
(2,336 posts)Maricopa is the biggest county. Mostly Latino population; have them wait outside in a loooong line and lots of them will go away. Republican-run state. They don't care if Bernie or Hillary wins the primary.
Time for change
(13,737 posts)But regardless of who's doing it, the effect is the same.
Though Arizona is Republican run, do you know the party affiliation of the person in Maricopa County who was responsible for reducing the number of polling places?
I will also say that I don't believe that the Republicans don't care who wins the Democratic nomination. Bernie has much more favorability ratings than Hillary, and he does better in head to head competition against all the major Republican candidates.
Chezboo
(230 posts)there were reports of the Sanders' State database being hacked the weekend before the primary. I haven't heard any complaints from Clinton people being told at the polls that their affiliations were changed when the tried to vote. I would really like to know.
Zira
(1,054 posts)And if Hillary wins after so much blatant voter suppression I will always believe she won by fraud.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...not voter fraud. Voter fraud is a bugaboo of the right wing, who seem to think that all Democrats vote at least twice, even though study after study has shown extremely miniscule actual incidents of such fraud. In fact, it is generally Republicans who get caught at it (e.g. Ann Coulter for one example).
Zira
(1,054 posts)And I have great respect for Noam Chomsky, whom you quote in your sig line
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)..in order to have specifically target him for vs.
Did Bernie make it known to AZ, back in 2012 that he would be a probable candidate?
Agree that AZ has a serious problem with the severe cut in polling places & with attention perhaps it will be taken care of by the GE.
However, I don't believe there is any way possible that AZ changed their State/county voter rules when they heard sanders was a competitor.
That's a big stretch.
Isn't it just something the campaign handlers do when gotv, is to know the State Voter rules ahead of time & inform your voters?
It was bernies campaign that dropped the ball on the Indy voter rule, & Hillary gained a lot by early voting. Another thing his campaign managers should have found out as to the rules of the State.
To blame his own campaign's lack of informing themselves on Hillary is absurd & underhanded.
Where was bernies campaign staff prior to the AZ vote.
They should have known that each State has differrent rules. This.a major campaign afterall.
Hopefully this attention has put AZ in the spotlight & more polling places will be added for the GE.
This is the only unfair voting practice to address.
The rest was the fault of bernies own campaign
Hillary did not cause sanders AZ problem.
Time for change
(13,737 posts)Second, I don't know what you mean by a change in voter rules. I didn't say anything about a change in voter rules in my OP, unless you're considering cutting the number of polling places in Maricopa County as a change in rules
I don't know how long it takes to cut the number of polling places, and I don't know when this decision was made. I do know that changes such as that are sometimes made very close to elections.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Not certain but it was a midterm year.
Republicans have manipulated voter rules, like closing polling places, in many red states, counties.
There needs to be some house cleaning done, & loudly calling out such broad & blatant suppression is a good start. We need folow through along with it.
Apologies.
I've read too many statement that blame Hillary for how AZ's Indy vote is handled.
For the moment, the RW dirty deeds must be kept in the humiliating spotlight.
Thanks
pat_k
(11,156 posts)According to http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/what-does-early-vote-say-about-who-will-do-well-n543641 :
So, younger voters... generally Sanders voters, were way underrepresented in early voting. The big skew between early and election day voting is totally unsurprising.
I do not attribute this to the Clinton campaign. But the demographics were well known in advance, as was the differential effect of making it so difficult to vote on election day. For anyone in the "election business" to claim ignorance is just absurd.
I wouldn't think Clinton would want such a stain on her victory. The right thing to do would be to call on election officials to open up "late voting" by mail to enable those who were prevented from voting on election day to get their vote on record. I wouldn't expect doing this to result in a Sanders win, but it could make a difference in in delegate allocation. (Election day voting -- and "late voting" if allowed -- would still be a much lower percentage to total registered Dems. I believe about forty percent of registered dems voted in advance. An overall turnout of 80% would be incredibly unlikely.)
Time for change
(13,737 posts)My point is that Election Day voting was grossly suppressed, and that that hurt Bernie.
pat_k
(11,156 posts)...between early and late voters.
RandySF
(73,505 posts)pat_k
(11,156 posts)... I don't think Clinton's campaign had anything to do with it. It was a county decision. But she clearly benefited, and knows this. I wouldn't think she would want the stain on her victory and....
See post.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Sanders campaign should have know about the AZ regs & made certain his demographic was well informed.
Perhaps a tweet would have sufficed. Considering .
Hillary has nothing to feel but proud the her heavy campaigning in AZ won her the State.
I don't know why Sanders insists this is about Hillary at all.
Its not.
pat_k
(11,156 posts)They should have "known better" than to try to vote on an election day. Idiots.
Yep. That's it.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Knowing this was a red state & that voter suppression is a predictable problem, they could have made some noise earliy on to inform voters .
Making noise is one thing the sanders camp is so good at. Why did they wait till after the fact to do so.
First of all, Hillary had nothing do to with AZ suppression.
Sanders camp ignored looking at the regs of AZ & the result was what it was.
The Republicans in AZ are to blame. As is typical of all voter suppression in any state.
Finding out the voter rules in your state is pretty much what one does before they decide to vote.
Camp bernie should have the forsight to check each state since one is not the same as the other.
This is not the first time sanders has ever campaigned.
This is what happens when ya don't bother to find out State voter regs.
Its bernie sanders own fault.
His team dropped the ball. They should have filed complaints long before the voting took place if they disagreed about AZ laws.
Not when its over & done.
Hopefully something will be changed by the GE.
lostnfound
(16,928 posts)H2O Man
(76,664 posts)Thank you.
RandySF
(73,505 posts)DesertRat
(27,995 posts)may have been prevented from voting, especially as the day went on and the lines grew longer.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)weather, etc. Some people may have left or were shut out, which is deplorable. Hopefully folks have learned a lesson and won't make that mistake again.
dchill
(42,080 posts)what a despicable attitude that is.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)can do it by mail, even on-line in some states, and avoid all the things listed above.
dchill
(42,080 posts)Many don't trust voting by mail. Me, I don't trust any voting method, but I intend to vote at my local precinct. It's my right.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)to the registrar, etc. I'll bet the day is coming where we will have very few polling places. It's expensive, you have to train people to work one or two days a year, too many opportunities for errors, inefficient, etc.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)Is that those in AZ (and elsewhere see, e.g., New York) think that such flagrant attempts at election fruad would not only go unnoticed but unreported and uncontested! The political party officials think we are so complacent and stupid that we the people would not fight back.
I hope that those that facilitated this rash of election fraud are pooping their pants worrying that they will be caught and brought to justice... but I won't hold my breath.
Land of Enchantment
(1,217 posts)edited for weird comma placement and typo of 113'00 which was 113,807 in the chart---
Some polls give a 60% to 40% Bernie victory (http://justicegazette.org/az-sanders-wins-real-vote-while-clinton-wins-rigged-count.html) ! It is almost as if the results have been completely flipped !
Nobody will make me believe that the crazy long lines in Maricopa County were only comprised of 32,000 voters (see great reply by puppuli further down: https://redd.it/4blzpp) !
In Maricopa County in the 2008 democratic primary, there were 113807 votes at the polls, in 2016 only 32,949, which is a turnout difference of -71% !
In Pima County in the 2008 democratic primary, there were 72,863 votes at the polls, in 2016 only 19,801 which is a turnout difference of -73% !
Can you still believe that this change in turnout is possible, despite the record long lines ?
It has been published that there has been are only 32,000 votes cast in Maricopa. If this is true, why did it take 5 or 6 hours to vote for most people ? In 2008 there were 113,807 votes cast on the primary day in Maricopa with 200 polling stations and it lasted not more than 15 minutes to vote. Yesterday, it was officially announced that there were 32,000 votes cast in 60 polling stations. More or less 3.5 times less votes and also 3.5 times less polling stations. But why was then the waiting time in the line to vote more than 5 hours long ? This means the waiting time was 20 times longer than in 2008 for the same number of votes cast per polling station ! This defies logic ! The only rational explanation is that there were much more voters than these 32,000 and that their vote has not been accounted for.
paulthompson
(2,398 posts)Those should be part of the original post.
Time for change
(13,737 posts)paulthompson
(2,398 posts)I'm guessing there could be two main problems going on.
First, there's the ridiculously small number of polling places in Maricopa County. Not only did it go down from 200 to 60 for this election, I heard it was over 300 in the election prior to that. That definitely has to be the fault of the Republicans. They've been trying to limit the number of voters in all the areas they control across the U.S. for years now, because it's well know that high voter turnout favors Democrats. In this case, we know the exact person to blame, and she's a Republican.
But then there's the second problem of people who have been registered voters for many years showing up on election day and finding out they weren't registered, or were registered as Republicans or indendents or something else. So far that's just adecotal, but there's tons of it, enough for the Arizona newspapers to be reporting on it as a credible trend. I heard one account of a witness who said it happened to more than half of all people showing up at their polling place!
I have no way of knowing at this point, but it seems to me that could be the fault of Republicans or Democrats. If that happened on a wide scale, how did it happen and who's behind it? I honestly have no idea, but it couldn't have just happened by itself. Some people have claimed that they checked their registration very recently, only to have it be different on election day. So it seems possible that someone did something very sneaky and deliberate at the last minute.
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)This is an unusual election year. Trump is very popular in this state, and had a massive outdoor rally in Maricopa Cnty 3 days before the election which also received wall to wall tv coverage here, and fired up a lot of people to try to vote for him.
I wonder if the GOP was coordinating to limit voters for Trump in this very red county? I haven't read a thing about GOP voters. ??
I think that the voter suppression hurt everyone (not just supporters of Bernie or Hillary) who went to the polls that day.
Time for change
(13,737 posts)I haven't looked into the numbers regarding the GOP candidates, as I am not much interested in those primaries.
That is not to say that I don't think that voter suppression targeted at Trump wouldn't also be a travesty of our democracy.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)tactics to win AZ. It doesn't matter how many disclaimers are given. Once the innuendo and allegations are out their it becomes firmly planted in peoples' minds that Hillary probably used underhanded tactics to win AZ and by extension any other race she might win.
Time for change
(13,737 posts)My purpose, which I have tried to make clear in other posts, and will continue to try to make clear, is that Bernie is a much more viable candidate than our national news media makes him out to be.
His favorability rating is +7.4 percent, compared to Hillary's -13.2 and negative favorability ratings of all the Republican candidates. In head to head poll competition against the Republican candidates he beats them all, and better than Hillary does. Yet, there are many people who won't vote for him in the Democratic primaries because they believe our national news media's fairy tale that he is unelectable and that Hillary is the inevitable nominee anyhow. He is NOT unelectable. I want to to get that message out.
merrily
(45,251 posts)bkscribe
(26 posts)n/t