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Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 09:59 AM Mar 2016

Simple truth and common sense, if "the Math" proved Hillary has it won:

Last edited Thu Mar 24, 2016, 12:52 PM - Edit history (1)

If so then Hillary supporters have nothing left to worry about, except for the Fall campaign against the Republicans. Sure her team has to follow through and not totally drop the ball, do their home work on voter turn out and the like, but that stuff is basic. She has a highly professional team in place. If they can't handle simple basics like that in what is being claimed is now a mop up campaign against an already defeated Democratic opponent, then God help us all in November if Hillary is our candidate.

If the Democratic race is really over then it is time for the winner to prioritize unifying Democrats. Not only is it much easier to be gracious when one comes out on top in a primary contest, it is also supremely self serving to be so. A winner needs the support of the loser at that stage, not the other way around. This is not a controversial thesis, it is Politics 101. In 2004 John Kerry knew he had the Democratic nomination well sewn up early in the race, once voters actually started voting. You never heard his camp calling on the Edwards team to throw in the towel though and "accept reality" - even though Edwards had only won one of 31 contests by the close of Super Tuesday.

That is not what politicians who are confident of victory do. They are in no hurry to force anyone out of a race that they are confident they have won. All the talk is about respecting the Democratic process and the importance of letting everyone vote. Political surrogates and campaign staff bend over backwards to quash negative statements being made by anyone associated with their campaign against their defeated primary foes.

That is what happens when a race is already decided. But that is far from what is happening now.

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Simple truth and common sense, if "the Math" proved Hillary has it won: (Original Post) Tom Rinaldo Mar 2016 OP
Don't worry, she'll handle the "mop up campaign" just fine. DanTex Mar 2016 #1
Contests in primaries PATRICK Mar 2016 #10
talk about missing the point! And oh that assumption you made here 2banon Mar 2016 #21
yes Kerry was and is a class act. Mary Mac Mar 2016 #2
If so then ... ? Hiraeth Mar 2016 #3
If she loses to Trump, that is 100% on her. closeupready Mar 2016 #4
It's not over by any means paulthompson Mar 2016 #5
Absolutely bang on. I was thinking that when I read about Hillary snagglepuss Mar 2016 #6
A couple of her "wins" need an asterisk by it Lone_Wolf Mar 2016 #7
A couple ? How about 5 or 6 ? agracie Mar 2016 #14
I'm a HRC supporter and I'm not worried about the outcome and Bernie can run as long as he wants Kaleva Mar 2016 #8
It has been the major talking point in the corparate media for months zwielicht Mar 2016 #9
The same pushing PATRICK Mar 2016 #12
Clinton can't win a fair fight. She needs the deck stacked in her favor.[n/t] Maedhros Mar 2016 #26
It would also behoove Sanders to see the writing on the wall and bow out now Tarc Mar 2016 #11
The writing says that Clinton is favored, not that she has won. Favorites do sometimes lose Tom Rinaldo Mar 2016 #13
If you wish to keep donating to a campaign with no chance, be my guest Tarc Mar 2016 #23
It's the third or fourth time so far she's tried to pretend she had no serious Democratic compeition Tom Rinaldo Mar 2016 #32
I wish to get as many delegates as possible for Sanders to reinforce his message. n/t eridani Mar 2016 #35
Sanders sees the writing on the wall NJCher Mar 2016 #19
Exactly Rebkeh Mar 2016 #15
Democrats always seem to gel come November. She will be fine. AgadorSparticus Mar 2016 #16
LOL Autumn Colors Mar 2016 #30
Denial is not just a river in Africa Gothmog Mar 2016 #17
You obviously don't read much NJCher Mar 2016 #22
You are wrong-denial is really sad Gothmog Mar 2016 #25
help me out here NJCher Mar 2016 #33
You are the correct one in this discussion of credible candidates. . . .they just seem to make it up pdsimdars Mar 2016 #28
if "the math" ibegurpard Mar 2016 #18
also, all the momentum is for Bernie and Hillary just keep sinking . . . . . Titanic pdsimdars Mar 2016 #29
Well Said and Spot On, Tom! 2banon Mar 2016 #20
No surprise I agree with you, Tom. HRC supporters need to back down blm Mar 2016 #24
I know you do blm. But I always appreciate your insights even we don't agree... Tom Rinaldo Mar 2016 #31
We will not be "mop up campaign" bkkyosemite Mar 2016 #27
This country would suck without liberal progressives felix_numinous Mar 2016 #34
It is not over till it is over Progressive dog Mar 2016 #36
A very reasonable position to have. Nothing wrong with confidence. n/t Tom Rinaldo Mar 2016 #37

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
1. Don't worry, she'll handle the "mop up campaign" just fine.
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:02 AM
Mar 2016

And the Dems will be unified once Bernie gets on board and starts campaigning for her. But, sure, hold on to that denial for another month if you want.

PATRICK

(12,227 posts)
10. Contests in primaries
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 11:35 AM
Mar 2016

are far from being over when a 'challenger" to the front runner is piling up wins by significant margins in states. It is natural and similar to the last real contest, between Obama and HRC to try to rout the field and this has been so consistent in the part of the season most favorable to Hillary as to be discounted. Apparently voters are not giving up, which is the more remarkable for the depth of the Democratic organization fully behind Hillary or fully against Sanders. I remember the war for the Edwards delegates when he was simply piling up third place or worse finishes but nice chunk of delegates. Trying to get that switch, pre-Convention, pre the rest of the states to turn the tide- or seal the deal.

In his latest appearances Sanders no signs of grimness or discouragemment or "moving on" and looking quite relaxed cinsidering he faces opposition and organization much greater than Obama did.

Or it shows the lingering softness of the "settling for HRC" campaign which is not much to recommend a frontrunner against any possible united GOP candidate. Getting a nod for a nomination anyone can win certainly makes me more unsettled than whatever Bernie's persisting numbers are. And the endless search for a credible poll that will tell the HRC camp what they need to hear- and carry that through her lingering relatively weak performance. Old ties and party organization in the bag are what's carrying this assault on the real facts of support, besides corporate media naturally choosing sides against the reforming "socialist."

Now, when/if (or if/when?) she gets the nomination and keeps trying to sell the exaggerration to rout the GOP we can only hope she does better because most of the masses of any side have not voted at all yet and voter suppression is full tilt a GOP artform and near monopoly.

It sounded silly after Michigan, sounded false after and still is incredibly premature sounding more like Junior Bush the loser telling Gore to submit and SCOTUS alone agreeing because it would damage the country. Oh wait, some of the Democratic party nabobs wanted Gore to submit to for some advantage in the midterms(LOL). Any of that crowd sadly lingering around?

If Bernie was placing second, even if close, in every state, this discussion might get more heated. Otherwise the solid group of impassioned Americans who want more and positive change than the frontrunner can inspire deserve to take it to the Convention floor. Discouraging people is not going to support the "save the money for the fall!" argument. The opposition is not of a style to damage Clinton much at all. It is mostly self inflicted and would happen, albeit in a different way in the fall.

I would dearly like to see two strong(as in people passion support and smarts) Dem candidates. The poll numbers are 99% an embarrassment in the way they are trumped up. How can anyone not get a sense of unease, a headache or gnawing fear for the type of frontrunner unity that has fallen short to a loner?

Old guy ramble: in many many major battles at the first hint of a minor success or wavering, some general will broadly smile and announce their defeat and a Big Push. Most of the time that does not happen and many times the cry is false or just plain fails. Voters DO give up when they sense defeat. It is simply not happening.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
21. talk about missing the point! And oh that assumption you made here
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 02:24 PM
Mar 2016

"dems will be unified"

ohh really? judging by the way you guys are relating to Bernie supporters, I think not.

Mary Mac

(323 posts)
2. yes Kerry was and is a class act.
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:05 AM
Mar 2016

Agree the Hillary supporters need to put some blinders on and stop attacking the Bernie supporters. They just need to avert their gaze from attacks on Hillary, and focus on the race for the Fall.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
6. Absolutely bang on. I was thinking that when I read about Hillary
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:35 AM
Mar 2016

ads going nonstop at the Idaho caucus. That's desperate. The race must be tighter then they're letting on. If it wasn't they wouldn't be risking turning people completely off Hillary by being so offensive to those backing the supposedly losing candidate.

Lone_Wolf

(1,603 posts)
7. A couple of her "wins" need an asterisk by it
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:38 AM
Mar 2016

Bill obstructing voters in NH and now this... Despicable...

Kaleva

(36,145 posts)
8. I'm a HRC supporter and I'm not worried about the outcome and Bernie can run as long as he wants
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:54 AM
Mar 2016

That's just simple Politics 101.

zwielicht

(134 posts)
9. It has been the major talking point in the corparate media for months
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 11:04 AM
Mar 2016

"Don't give Sanders a chance because he does not have a chance!" - If you compare early voting results to election day results you know why.

Imho Clinton and her supporters should really put an emphasis on playing fair - if she wins, the worst thing would be alienating even more young voters.

PATRICK

(12,227 posts)
12. The same pushing
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 11:40 AM
Mar 2016

they did to make Bill Clinton resign, to push up junior's declining poll numbers, to let Gore get robbed, to rationalize Theft 2004, to deny voters any of their strongly held progressive opinions seeing daylight, etc. etc. In this case it is black and white. Much of their remaining profit exists for a crooked election charade and finance corruption. Sanders is such a clear foe on so many fronts to their teetering bottom line that don't even have to reason or conspire.

Tarc

(10,472 posts)
11. It would also behoove Sanders to see the writing on the wall and bow out now
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 11:37 AM
Mar 2016

So both she as the nominee and he as an endorser and surrogate on the campaign trail can get to the task at hand; shutting down the conservative propaganda machinery.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
13. The writing says that Clinton is favored, not that she has won. Favorites do sometimes lose
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 01:04 PM
Mar 2016

Games aren't called at half time because one team has a lead. It is frankly anti-democratic to suggest otherwise. Constant repetition of that talking point now strongly suggests the opposite conclusion - that it is still far from over.

Tarc

(10,472 posts)
23. If you wish to keep donating to a campaign with no chance, be my guest
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 02:31 PM
Mar 2016

It is rather telling though that Hillary's recent remarks have been more focused on the larger problems at hand and on Trump directly; there's really no longer a reason to campaign specifically at Sanders anymore.

So, turn off the lights on your way out, I guess...

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
32. It's the third or fourth time so far she's tried to pretend she had no serious Democratic compeition
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 03:52 PM
Mar 2016

Last edited Thu Mar 24, 2016, 04:31 PM - Edit history (1)

She started out with that approach last year, and then started sweating when Bernie and Biden began nipping at her heels. She had a good month in November though in large part due to the Republican Libyan witch hunt letting her show her chops in that all day hearing. That's when the media said that her earlier slide in the polls turned around putting her on a sure path to victory again - that Bernie had peaked, game over.

Then Bernie came within a quarter percent of her in Iowa and surged in NH and the game was on again. Then Bernie was called down and out again after South Carolina, and she started looking past him again. But wouldn't you know, Nevada started looking too close for comfort and she had to stop ignoring Bernie again until Harry Reid helped her pull that one out. Back to looking past Bernie again toward the Fall election after the results from Super Tuesday, until Sanders upset her in Michigan. Then Hillary had to pivot back to the Democratic contest again after trying to dismiss it.

That's how it keeps going. Trying to ignore Sanders while focusing on the Fall election is a tactic that aims to convince primary voters to "move along, there's nothing to see here". Let's see how well that works for Hillary again this time, after Saturday. Try and try again.

Rebkeh

(2,450 posts)
15. Exactly
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 02:06 PM
Mar 2016

I'm gonna listen to my candidate, not the party.

It makes them look desperate to me when they make that call to drop out, which does not demoralize me one bit. It confirms that they are worried.

Gothmog

(143,998 posts)
17. Denial is not just a river in Africa
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 02:08 PM
Mar 2016

Clinton has a far larger lead that Obama did in 2008. Sanders' sole path appears to rely on the flipping of super delegates and pledged delegates to support him. I find that path to be unrealistic and sad. Super delegates and even pledged delegates are party regulars who care about the long term viability and success of the party. Sanders cares only about his campaign and has not tried to help or build the party at all. In addition, Sanders' platform tax increases and other items would kill down ballot Democrats. Nancy Pelosi has made it very clear that this platform will not be supported by the down ballot candidates running for Congress. http://thehill.com/homenews/house/267236-pelosi-distances-dems-from-sanderss-plan-to-raise-taxes

Democrats are not on board with the tax hikes Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders has proposed to pay for his single-payer healthcare proposal, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Wednesday.

"We're not running on any platform of raising taxes," Pelosi said during a press briefing to launch the Democrats' yearly issues conference in Baltimore, Md. "We do want to have a fairer tax system, and … we hope that we can do that this year."

Sanders' pathway to the nomination is not realistic

NJCher

(35,422 posts)
22. You obviously don't read much
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 02:25 PM
Mar 2016

There have been many analyses by credible people and organizations that show Sanders plans are not only viable, but will rejuvenate the economy. There was another posted just yesterday. Why don't you know this?

Sad? Let me tell you what's sad: that would be people who want so little for themselves that they will settle for corporate-owned and bought shills.

I want the whole enchilada. I'm not settling for the crumbs certain candidates want to throw our way after they've paid off their benefactors.

Cher

Gothmog

(143,998 posts)
25. You are wrong-denial is really sad
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 03:20 PM
Mar 2016

Sanders will not be the nominee. If you are silly enough to believe that sanders and more than a 5% chance of being the nominee, then open an Irish brokerage account. The smart money and the free market system will be happy to take your money

NJCher

(35,422 posts)
33. help me out here
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 04:02 PM
Mar 2016
If you are silly enough to believe that sanders and more than a 5% chance of being the nominee

What are you trying to say? This is an unreadable sentence. It makes no sense.

I won't be responding to any more of your posts because I can see how much thought goes into them--not even enough thought to do a little proofreading. This is what I do with the lame writing I get from students. I turn it back unread, and when they ask why, I tell them it is disrespectful to turn that quality of writing into their professor.

Oh, and you can save your sympathy. I don't need it because I'll be getting a president who wants to work for me and my fellow citizens.

Don't give up your day job, either, as you're about to flop as a prognosticator.


Cher

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
28. You are the correct one in this discussion of credible candidates. . . .they just seem to make it up
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 03:26 PM
Mar 2016

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
18. if "the math"
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 02:16 PM
Mar 2016

Proved she had it won then she'd have crossed the delegate threshold already. She hasn't so what we're dealing with here is probability. Hillbots can gnash their teeth all they want but it's not over until she crosses that threshold or Bernie drops out. THAT is the math.

blm

(112,919 posts)
24. No surprise I agree with you, Tom. HRC supporters need to back down
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 02:55 PM
Mar 2016

from the position some of them have taken. The snark and gloating is shortsighted and unhealthy in the long run.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
31. I know you do blm. But I always appreciate your insights even we don't agree...
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 03:34 PM
Mar 2016

...it's more pleasant when we do though. What makes even less sense than attacking a candidate who runs against a candidate you support whose help will be needed in the Fall, is attacking those whose votes you want to count on in the fall.

felix_numinous

(5,198 posts)
34. This country would suck without liberal progressives
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 04:17 PM
Mar 2016

DU or any other left websites would not be 1/4 as popular, nor would ANY Democratic politician be where they are today without liberal support. '

But when it comes down to policy we are told our viewpoints are ponies and unicorns, we are ridiculed and marginalized and once we are used for effect we are cast off till needed again!

I would be a fool to agree to play this game again, as would anyone else---unification means to INCLUDE everyone, the left progressives believe this so the burden of proof is on those on the right to prove they mean it when they talk about unification!

Progressive dog

(6,861 posts)
36. It is not over till it is over
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 09:48 AM
Mar 2016

and I don't intend to celebrate until Hillary actually has enough delegates to prevail on the first vote. That doesn't mean I am not confident of the final outcome.

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