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Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:02 PM

How come BS supporters denigrate Hillary's wins in the South, as unimportant red states,

but celebrate their own victories in western red states like Utah and Idaho (even though those states have much smaller populations and fewer delegates)?

What's different about the southern red states that makes them worth less, in the eyes of Bernie supporters?

Seems very peculiar. I have my own theory but I'm interested in what others might think.

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Reply How come BS supporters denigrate Hillary's wins in the South, as unimportant red states, (Original post)
pnwmom Mar 2016 OP
WhiteTara Mar 2016 #1
DesertFlower Mar 2016 #51
JaneyVee Mar 2016 #2
ibegurpard Mar 2016 #3
giftedgirl77 Mar 2016 #4
bravenak Mar 2016 #16
Ken Burch Mar 2016 #103
bravenak Mar 2016 #105
Ken Burch Mar 2016 #106
1StrongBlackMan Mar 2016 #126
NurseJackie Mar 2016 #110
giftedgirl77 Mar 2016 #112
BumRushDaShow Mar 2016 #30
giftedgirl77 Mar 2016 #33
retrowire Mar 2016 #39
giftedgirl77 Mar 2016 #41
retrowire Mar 2016 #44
mythology Mar 2016 #47
retrowire Mar 2016 #49
bravenak Mar 2016 #53
1StrongBlackMan Mar 2016 #88
WhiteTara Mar 2016 #56
retrowire Mar 2016 #58
treestar Mar 2016 #73
retrowire Mar 2016 #77
treestar Mar 2016 #89
retrowire Mar 2016 #90
1StrongBlackMan Mar 2016 #93
treestar Mar 2016 #64
retrowire Mar 2016 #70
treestar Mar 2016 #71
retrowire Mar 2016 #74
uponit7771 Mar 2016 #59
giftedgirl77 Mar 2016 #60
uponit7771 Mar 2016 #61
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Mar 2016 #83
1StrongBlackMan Mar 2016 #85
workinclasszero Mar 2016 #87
pdsimdars Mar 2016 #114
giftedgirl77 Mar 2016 #121
w4rma Mar 2016 #5
pnwmom Mar 2016 #8
w4rma Mar 2016 #22
angrychair Mar 2016 #26
pnwmom Mar 2016 #32
angrychair Mar 2016 #38
Codeine Mar 2016 #15
w4rma Mar 2016 #24
MrWendel Mar 2016 #27
w4rma Mar 2016 #29
MrWendel Mar 2016 #35
w4rma Mar 2016 #54
MrWendel Mar 2016 #69
w4rma Mar 2016 #98
MrWendel Mar 2016 #100
w4rma Mar 2016 #108
MrWendel Mar 2016 #115
Jokerman Mar 2016 #116
MrWendel Mar 2016 #125
CorporatistNation Mar 2016 #42
Zynx Mar 2016 #94
treestar Mar 2016 #65
Zynx Mar 2016 #92
1StrongBlackMan Mar 2016 #95
samrock Mar 2016 #129
G_j Mar 2016 #6
w4rma Mar 2016 #25
msongs Mar 2016 #7
NewHampshiriteGuy Mar 2016 #9
Armstead Mar 2016 #18
pnwmom Mar 2016 #21
pnwmom Mar 2016 #19
NewHampshiriteGuy Mar 2016 #23
bravenak Mar 2016 #48
treestar Mar 2016 #66
1StrongBlackMan Mar 2016 #96
Codeine Mar 2016 #10
Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #17
72DejaVu Mar 2016 #52
Vattel Mar 2016 #34
DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #11
Hiraeth Mar 2016 #12
Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #13
Garrett78 Mar 2016 #104
NWCorona Mar 2016 #14
Armstead Mar 2016 #20
Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #28
Vattel Mar 2016 #31
sadoldgirl Mar 2016 #36
pnwmom Mar 2016 #37
sadoldgirl Mar 2016 #50
pnwmom Mar 2016 #55
potone Mar 2016 #127
Garrett78 Mar 2016 #123
morningfog Mar 2016 #40
reddread Mar 2016 #86
mcar Mar 2016 #43
joshcryer Mar 2016 #45
pat_k Mar 2016 #46
pnwmom Mar 2016 #57
Vattel Mar 2016 #62
pnwmom Mar 2016 #72
Vattel Mar 2016 #80
pat_k Mar 2016 #67
pnwmom Mar 2016 #75
pat_k Mar 2016 #81
pat_k Mar 2016 #84
frustrated_lefty Mar 2016 #63
Gothmog Mar 2016 #68
Dawson Leery Mar 2016 #76
BlueStreak Mar 2016 #78
Baobab Mar 2016 #79
w4rma Mar 2016 #99
Cobalt Violet Mar 2016 #119
upaloopa Mar 2016 #82
cherokeeprogressive Mar 2016 #91
dflprincess Mar 2016 #97
Aerows Mar 2016 #101
Ken Burch Mar 2016 #102
HassleCat Mar 2016 #107
DrDan Mar 2016 #109
NurseJackie Mar 2016 #111
pdsimdars Mar 2016 #113
Cobalt Violet Mar 2016 #118
thesquanderer Mar 2016 #117
Cobalt Violet Mar 2016 #120
Orsino Mar 2016 #122
Waiting For Everyman Mar 2016 #124
1StrongBlackMan Mar 2016 #128
Waiting For Everyman Mar 2016 #130
1StrongBlackMan Mar 2016 #131

Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:03 PM

1. because he didn't win them. nt

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:52 PM

51. i think you're right. even though i originally

supported bernie i found some of his supporters to be "cult like".

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:03 PM

2. It is a mystery shrouded in secrecy.

 

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:04 PM

3. I don't

They're all worthless in the General. But as the hillbots are so fond pointing out...a delegate is a delegate.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:06 PM

4. They are white states so their votes automatically have a higher

 

value to diehard Bernie supporters.

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:16 PM

16. I noticed too

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 12:02 AM

103. Come on, bravenak, we've already proved that Bernie's supporters aren't white supremacists.

 

We hate the 'bros(many of whom are probably paid by David Brock, since Bernie's campaign would never have encouraged their shit), and they never represented the true Bernie campaign. Bernie has denounced the 'bros, too.

And Bernie doesn't owe it to the antiracist cause to give up as a candidate.

Only Republicans would benefit if Bernie got out now.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #103)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 12:05 AM

105. I did not say they were all white supremacists

 

I said I noticed too. Like I noticed that the Red states with a large black population are said not to count but the Red states where we do not live in big numbers are said to count way more. That is not surprising after how folks ran around defending any op that was insensitive and just plain wrong.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #105)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 12:32 AM

106. We aren't saying those states "don't count".

 

What we're saying is that the contest for the nomination didn't END when those states voted. Bernie's campaign is continuing, we have done better(though still not as well as we could be doing)with POC outside of the South, and it's the natural thing to argue, when your candidate is behind, that she or he can still win by doing better in the later states.

Hillary's campaign would be doing the same thing if she had lost the AA vote on Super Tuesday. In fact, that's exactly what she did in 2008.

Also, the states Hillary carried on Super Tuesday are going to be less important in the fall-NOT because there is a large contingent of black voters in those states(we are all glad that black voter turnout is strong in any situation) but because the WHITE voters in most of those states are hopelessly right-wing due to the fact those white the white voters, most of whom(unlike Bernie's supporters)actually ARE driven by white supremacism, are likely going to vote heavily Republican for the rest of eternity.

It would be nice to carry those states, and black voters will get and deserve the credit if the Democratic ticket does carry them, but either Dem will be able to get black voters in the fall. I assume you'll concede the point that THOSE voters aren't going to flip over to Trump, for goddess' sakes.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #106)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 01:30 PM

126. That's a very generous spin to ...

 

the way Bernie supporters dismissed HRC's win throughout the south.

Also, the states Hillary carried on Super Tuesday are going to be less important in the fall-NOT because there is a large contingent of black voters in those states(we are all glad that black voter turnout is strong in any situation) but because the WHITE voters in most of those states are hopelessly right-wing due to the fact those white the white voters, most of whom(unlike Bernie's supporters)actually ARE driven by white supremacism, are likely going to vote heavily Republican for the rest of eternity.


Less important than Utah and Idaho, that are being trumpeted? ... That is the subject of this thread.

Like I said ... a very generous spin.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #105)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 06:58 AM

110. The Games Continue (AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service)

On Thu Mar 24, 2016, 05:19 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

I did not say they were all white supremacists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1565129

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"I'm not saying that Bernie supporters are racists but Bernie supporters are racists."

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 24, 2016, 05:27 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
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Explanation: WWHD? --- Leave it!
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Explanation: I see nothing inappropriate in this post.
No hide.
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Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is a perfectly fine explanation
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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #110)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 09:02 AM

112. Lol, butthurt whiny babies.

 

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:34 PM

30. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Wed Mar 23, 2016, 04:22 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

They are white states so their votes automatically have a higher
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1562907

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Implying Sanders supporters are racists

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Mar 23, 2016, 04:28 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Implying is an understatement. Hide
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's sarcasm and attempting to illustrate how ridiculous the arguments are about the value of votes in so-called "red states" while ignoring that these are the primaries, not the general election.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Much worse is said about Hillary supporters,daily. Leave.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is speaking to the numerous "Confederate States don't matter" and "ignore SC" type posts. Leave it.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Stupid post, but why not rebut in the thread instead of alert.
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Explanation: No explanation given
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Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.


Thankfully some people "get it". You can't help but see the hypocrisy all over DU.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #30)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:38 PM

33. Some people can't possibly be that dense to have missed the

 

shit being slung around here. Tunnel vision is the only explanation.

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:02 PM

39. Since you survived an alert I'll give you a response you can't contest.

1. All sorts of races live in those states. They aren't "white" states.

2. I'm a diehard Bernie supporter and all votes matter to me. That's why the weird shit that happened in AZ is something everyone should be talking about.

Should I make a post that says, "Why don't Hillary supporters care about voter fraud and voter suppression? Oh yeah, because it benefits Hillary."?

Nah, I won't do that. Because there are more important things than posting comments falsely inferring that a campaign only cares about white people.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #39)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:09 PM

41. Nobody is taking issue with the problems that allegedly occurred

 

in AZ. As long as they can provide proof they were registered by the deadline their votes should count.

As far as Utah, Idaho & in many instances New Hampshire those states voters are statistically whiter there are no if & or buts about it. When you get to the southern "red states" minorities have a much larger voting block. For whatever reason certain Sanders supporters have decided us lowly ppl shouldn't even have our votes counted & the only differences are our skin color & who we voted for.

So your only options are admit that your homes want to discount our vote because of our race or our choice to support someone other than BS. Either way it's very undemocratic & possibly quite bigoted.

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #41)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:18 PM

44. lol

"Sanders supporters have decided us lowly ppl shouldn't even have our votes counted & the only differences are our skin color & who we voted for."


Show me where Sanders supporters:

- Stated that people in the south are lowly because of skin color.

- Stated that southern votes simply don't count. (and sorry, extrapolation of how the primary votes don't count in the general won't cut it, because that part is true. Primary votes for a democrat won't count in the general for a state that will likely end up red.)

Also, my original point still stands... Why aren't Hillary supporters up in arms about AZ? Bernie's talking about it... Hillary is... SHHH LETS JUST CELEBRATE! XD http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141388381

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Response to retrowire (Reply #44)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:44 PM

47. You perhaps missed the posts saying blacks supporting Clinton were suffering from

 

Stockholm Syndrome. Or that we should pay more attention to Vermont because it has a higher education level than South Carolina.

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Response to mythology (Reply #47)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:48 PM

49. The first statement

was deplorable and I didn't stand with it.

The second one.... has nothing to do with race. Try again.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #49)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:56 PM

53. Let us not forget that master servant class crap

 

And the fact that so many Sat quietly and ignored that nasty ahti black racism, but jumped on the chance to hound me. It seems like these upstanding folks can never speak out or even notice anti black racism in their own ranks. I have not seen one fucking apology.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #44)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:25 PM

88. As best I can tell, HRC supporters ARE up in arms about AZ ...

 

but for very different reasons. The HRC folks are upset that voters were disenfranchised (whether by design or incompetence); whereas, the Bernie supporters seem up in arms that HRC, or the DNC, or both, cheated Bernie supporters out of their votes.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #39)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:07 PM

56. Your non post has been posted ad nauseum

Should I make a post that says, "Why don't Hillary supporters care about voter fraud and voter suppression? Oh yeah, because it benefits Hillary."?

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #56)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:28 PM

58. so has the "Bernie supporters are racist meme"

what's your point?

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Response to retrowire (Reply #58)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:54 PM

73. Nobody calls them racists

The discussion that Bernie is not attracting voter is not calling the supporters of said candidate racist. Trying so hard to be the victim undermines your arguments.

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Response to treestar (Reply #73)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:07 PM

77. In this post....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1562907

Only white votes matter to Bernie supporters.

That's not calling Bernie supporters racist?

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Response to retrowire (Reply #77)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:30 PM

89. It's a bit of a leap

They are referring to white populated states, which Bernie is stronger in.

Which is interesting. Why do white Democrats go to Bernie? Where did they go in 2008? Hillary or Obama. Would be interesting if it was Hillary then. Do they just prefer the candidate that is not the one minorities prefer. Very odd.

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Response to treestar (Reply #89)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:32 PM

90. Plenty of whites voted Obama sooo...

Why make it a race war? Gee whiz.

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Response to treestar (Reply #73)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:34 PM

93. Come on Treestar ...

 

there have been Bernie supporters that have been called racist, and you know it ... the Bernie supporting "Stockholm Syndrome" poster comes immediately to mind, as well as the Bernie supporting "Race-nagger" poster.

But beyond that, your point holds ... the rest is, merely, Bernie supporters interpreting the inferences suggested by people discussing that Bernie is not attracting (significant numbers) Voters of Color and hearing themselves being called racists.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #39)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:40 PM

64. there's no proof it benefits Hillary

It could harm her. Bernie supporters always presume someone who sustained any inconvenience in voting would have voted for Bernie. This is because he lost. If he won, this would not be a problem.

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Response to treestar (Reply #64)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:52 PM

70. She won AZ.

.... that's the possible proof it benefited her...

If there's a recount or even a historical re-vote and Bernie turns out to win... then that's solid proof that it benefited her... Why isn't she upset over the circumstances? Because she won? Let's move on, right?

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Response to retrowire (Reply #70)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:53 PM

71. LOL

She won so that proves she benefitted?

She might have won by a lot more.

And that undermines the enthusiasm argument. Hillary voters apparently are willing to wait long hours in lines to vote for her, whereas Bernie's voters slink away at the inconvenience. Some revolutionaries those.

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Response to treestar (Reply #71)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:55 PM

74. no no no... shit, I guess I should have boldened words to help with comprehension...

Let me help you...


.... that's the possible proof it benefited her...

If there's a recount or even a historical re-vote and Bernie turns out to win... then that's solid proof that it benefited her... Why isn't she upset over the circumstances? Because she won? Let's move on, right?

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:30 PM

59. I asked this question before to someone who literlly indicated the same thing

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #59)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:31 PM

60. & read the responses to me in this thread.

 

They just keep proving the shit over & over.

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:14 PM

83. Yep

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:15 PM

85. 3/5th more.

 

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:18 PM

87. Yeah...how about that?

 

The contrast is striking.

And sickening.

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Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 09:19 AM

114. Ah, bringing race into it . . .

 

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Response to pdsimdars (Reply #114)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:56 AM

121. Ahhh the whole hear no evil speak no evil.

 

🙉🙊

Ignoring it or denying it when race has been brought into the fray here repeatedly & it was hardcore Bernie or Bust supporters saying it & members reccing them like they were the greatest words ever said. Denying the exisitance if said OPs only make you part of the problem.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:07 PM

5. Because Bernie can win Utah and West Virginia in the general election.

 

Hillary can't.

And, on that note, Hillary can't win any of the deep south states, that she won in the primary.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:12 PM

8. Hillary has more of a chance to win Georgia -- as Jimmy Carter did --

and Arkansas than Bernie has to win Utah and Idaho.

The demographics of the South have been changing. Georgia is a purple state now. The right candidate -- which would not be Bernie -- could turn it blue. Especially against Donald Trump.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:21 PM

22. Pipe dream. Hillary is incapable of winning Georgia. Georgia is trending Republican. (nt)

 

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:25 PM

26. Do you have actual polling to back that up???

Because I have real polling to back up my claim:
http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865650513/Poll-Utah-would-vote-for-a-Democrat-for-president-over-Trump.html?pg=all?ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

Sanders would beat tRump in a GE in Utah by 11 points.

While HRC is shown as winning against tRump in Utah, it is well within the polling margin of error so it is a tossup at best.

I find it incredibly unlikely that any Democrat, I don't care if it's PBO in a 3rd term, Sanders or HRC, have any chance of winning GA or AR in a GE.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #26)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:38 PM

32. History and demographics.

The Dems have been steadily doing better in Georgia and for a good reason: the population is changing.

And I don't know why you wouldn't think Hillary could do well in Arkansas. Bill certainly did.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/zac-mccrary/sweet-georgia-blue_b_3385459.html

Most fundamentally, Georgia is quickly becoming less white and less rural. In 2000, Georgia’s population was 63 percent white; as of the 2010 Census the state’s population is 56 percent white. Of the state’s 1.5 million new residents between 2000 and 2010, more than 80 percent (1.2 million, or 81 percent) were non-white.

Over the past decade, the 6 percent growth among Georgia’s white population pales in comparison to the 26 percent growth rate among African Americans. This is in stark contrast to the growth patterns of the 1990s, when Georgia’s white population grew by more than double that rate (16 percent). Since 1990, Georgia has gained more than 1.2 million African-American residents and has served, according to The Wall Street Journal, as a “magnet for black professionals” from other parts of the country.

However, Georgia’s increased competitiveness is not driven solely by African-American voters. Georgia’s Hispanic population grew by 96 percent over the last decade — a growth rate double the national average and second only to North Carolina’s. From 1990-2010, the state’s Hispanic population has risen from roughly 100,000 to more than 800,000 — now totaling 9.1 percent of the state’s population. Additionally, Georgia’s Asian-American community grew by 81 percent from 2000-2010 and has almost quintupled since 1990.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #32)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:59 PM

38. GA, like TX is a DNC fantasy

In 2012, PBO was the strongest and most favorable Democratic incumbent president in modern history, who won in a landslide but lost to a very stiff and very white Rmoney in GA by 7 points.
If the person who many consider to be the greatest president in modern history, including myself, can't win GA than I don't even see HRC coming even close.

You cannot compare WJC's 1992 carrying of AR, as a popular governor, to HRC running in 2016. Especially since they left Arkansas behind for New York.
Not to mention that PBO lost Arkansas by 23 points in 2012 and 20 points in 2008. For whatever reason both Kerry and Gore did better but still lost.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:16 PM

15. Vs Trump all sorts of states are in play.

 

There's a reason Repuke leaders are shittin themselves when they see how well Trump is doing; they know he's a disaster for their electoral goals.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:23 PM

24. And Sanders does better than Hillary, in every state, against Trump.

 

So a slight loss with Hillary turns into a landslide win with Sanders, in the general against Trump or Cruz.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #24)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:28 PM

27. Thats great...

so why can't he beat her in delegates and overall votes?

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Response to MrWendel (Reply #27)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:32 PM

29. My honest view is that most retirees don't get their news from the internet.

 

Clinton supporters simply tend to watch too much TV.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #29)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:39 PM

35. Thats a bit...

of a blanket statement, almost like most old people don't know how to use tech. Maybe, just maybe, people in general like you and me can form their own opinions.

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Response to MrWendel (Reply #35)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:02 PM

54. There are generally always some exceptions. That's why I say "most". (nt)

 

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Response to w4rma (Reply #54)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:49 PM

69. I think...

the most news wonks are the older set.

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Response to MrWendel (Reply #69)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:50 PM

98. My dad is in his 80s. He recognized Clinton's name on a Planned Parenthood flyer.

 

I had to tell him that he was voting in a primary between two Democrats, not the general election. I had to tell him that Sanders is also a Democrat.

He did vote for Sanders, but it was only because I asked him to do it. He still has never seen Sanders on TV and he doesn't know how to use a computer.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #98)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:52 PM

100. And My ...

Grandparents are politically savvy. Not everyone, not even most can be put into a nice and neat stereotypical box.

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Response to MrWendel (Reply #100)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 02:07 AM

108. Not as "savy" as they think they are if they voted Clinton over Sanders.

 

Unless they are members of the 0.1%, obviously.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #108)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 09:45 AM

115. Because ....

dick riding Bernie makes you "Savy"? Take a swing at me all you want, do NOT attack my family.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #108)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:08 AM

116. Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT

On Thu Mar 24, 2016, 11:02 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Not as "savy" as they think they are if they voted Clinton over Sanders.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1565336

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Attacking a members family seems wrong to me.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 24, 2016, 11:06 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: WTF? How can this comment be worthy of an alert? Alert trolls make baby jebus cry.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: That is incredibly mild. Stop abusing the alert system.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to Jokerman (Reply #116)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 01:09 PM

125. I'm fine with it...

its just an Internet Gangster that would never say that to anyone's face.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:14 PM

42. Bernie Will Win The States That He is Winning ... Going Away While Hillary Will Have A Tough Time

Winning the states that Bernie is winning and will with 100% probability lose all of the southern states that she won in the primary. That is WHY Bernie is the candidate to have IF you want to win the general.

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Response to CorporatistNation (Reply #42)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:35 PM

94. Bernie will win Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Utah, and Idaho?

Also, Hillary would win Michigan, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Colorado. She'll also win Virginia and likely Florida.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:40 PM

65. absurd

Utah will go R in the GE.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:34 PM

92. Utah is competitive for both only because of Trump.

If Trump's the nominee, no matter which of these two we nominate, we'll win by 15-20 points easily.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:40 PM

95. Bernie can win Utah in the G/E? A state that hasn't gone Democratic since 1968?

 

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Response to w4rma (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 02:08 PM

129. What are you smoking!!

No democrat can win Utah, and West Virginia now a real stretch...

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:11 PM

6. It's easy to see what you're implying

of course you can't come right out and say it.
Nice try though..

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Response to G_j (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:24 PM

25. Clinton's campaign is that voters under 54 are either sexist or racist against blacks.

 

Her campaign is literally sickening.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:11 PM

7. I suspect your own theory is probably correct nt

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:13 PM

9. It's simple...and less insidious than you might think...

It's a form of confirmation bias, where people see phenomena that benefit or confirm their belief system as being positive even when the same phenomena are viewed as negative when applied to an alternative or opposing belief system.

It's a classic double-standard...and we all do it.

Here are some examples:

Red states for Bernie are a big win, a revolution of new voters!
Red states for Hillary are downplayed as being insignificant to the general election!

Voter suppression caused by Republicans in Arizona where Bernie lost: a huge big deal!
Voter suppression caused by Republicans in New Hampshire where Hillary lost: not that big of a deal!

I could go on and on, and although I'd like to pretend Hillary supporters don't do it too...we do...whether we want to admit it or not.

It's the whole reason liberals tend to watch MSNBC and conservatives watch Fox News, because those outlets largely reinforce our existing viewpoints rather than challenging them.

It's completely obnoxious, but it's human nature.

It's also the reason I can't wait for the primary to be over, regardless of who wins, because it's just one of the reasons DU has become so freaking toxic and unbearable lately.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #18)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:19 PM

21. That was a good, thoughtful post. Thanks, Armstead. n/t

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Response to NewHampshiriteGuy (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:18 PM

19. Thanks for the smart response, NewHampshiriteGuy.

And welcome to DU!

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #19)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:22 PM

23. Thanks!

Thanks pnwmom!

I've actually been lurking behind the scenes and reading posts on DU for about a decade(?), but I just recently decided to create an account and start posting.

Looks like I joined during a very heated time though!!!

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Response to NewHampshiriteGuy (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:48 PM

48. You might be right

 

But I think for some, it really is about those more insidious reasons.

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Response to NewHampshiriteGuy (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:42 PM

66. Pretty much

I recall how terribly unfair caucuses were in Iowa - so undemocratic - but now they are OK.

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Response to NewHampshiriteGuy (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:45 PM

96. Agreed. But you will not be well liked around these parts! ...

 

Welcome to DU.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:13 PM

10. It's funny; if you add up all the Dem voters

 

(Sanders and Clinton supporters both) in both of last night's caucuses the figure is still smaller than the number of people who voted for Clinton in South Carolina.

So if it's not numbers it must be something else about those voters that makes them more important despite their paltry number. Something. . . colorful, shall we say?

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Response to Codeine (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:16 PM

17. Stop trying (and failing) to be coy. Just call us racists and be done with it.

 

It's not like you're fooling anyone.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #17)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:55 PM

52. I don't think they are calling you racists

I think they are calling you hypocrites.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:38 PM

34. Pathetic

 

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:14 PM

11. Because those are sparely populated homogeneous states?/nt

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:14 PM

12. good gawd, gertie. welcome to ignore.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:15 PM

13. I have no problem saying the same thing I said then:

 

Only swing states matter in the least in November.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 12:03 AM

104. The 2 that matter most are Ohio and Florida.

The Republican nominee probably can't get to 270 without *both* Ohio and Florida.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:15 PM

14. It is bad if it's to discount the black vote

And I'm sure that some of that is the case and do to frustration and underlying issues.

But it is something to think about if those states are red in the general.

Personally I'm proud that we voted in the numbers we are regardless if my candidate didn't get the lion share. I just hope we utilize that earned capital.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)


Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:30 PM

28. Because they're playing politics so they want to play up their candidate's wins while

 

downplaying the opponent's wins. Part of the spin is to say Bernie appeals in states we might actually be able to win in the general election. Democrats aren't winning the deep south in the general.

That's really all there is to it.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:37 PM

31. What's your theory?

 

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:41 PM

36. I am not concerned about the red states,

but I keep watching what is happening in
the purple ones, like Nevada, Colorado, and
Montana.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Reply #36)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:51 PM

37. Georgia is a purple state now. As of 2010, it was only 56% white and the number

is even lower today.

It could easily go the way of Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #37)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:49 PM

50. Well, NC is now heavily in the repug

camp, and it did not help Obama in 2012.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Reply #50)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:07 PM

55. NC was 68% white in 2010, when Georgia was only 56% white.

Having that many more minority voters could make the difference.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #55)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 01:31 PM

127. It could, but NC is going down the drain.

They have a horrible governor and the legislature is even worse: witness the latest legislation against LGBT people. They are also destroying the state university system. In addition, they have passed legislation making it harder to register to vote. I have no doubt that regardless of who actually wins in NC, the Republicans will try to steal it. That state will need election monitors during the GE.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Reply #50)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 11:13 AM

123. Romney beat Obama by just 2.2 percentage points in North Carolina.

I think Florida and Ohio were the only 2 states where the margin was smaller. In another thread, I posted Romney's margin of victory in each of the states he won: The Red State Meme: Which States Are Actually the 'Reddest'?

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:05 PM

40. How come you talk about Bernie supporters as monolithic

 

single thought group?

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Response to morningfog (Reply #40)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:18 PM

86. their sole tactic

 

bash the supporters.
I dont think it is based in antisemitism, or trying to sidestep.
its simply reminiscent.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:15 PM

43. Curious, isn't it?

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:35 PM

45. I haven't.

In fact I have chastised faux supporters for their racist Confederacy comments.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:44 PM

46. Who does that?

If anyone actually denigrated wins in the southern states as "worth less" they should be admonished. But I haven't seen anyone do that.

What I see are observations that the early calendar included many states (particularly in the south) that favored Hillary. As the process moves forward, we are seeing a lot of states -- including a number of western states -- that favor Bernie.

All true.

No "denigration" there.

Your straw-man accusation is insulting to Sanders supporters.

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Response to pat_k (Reply #46)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:11 PM

57. It's happened many many times. People here keep saying because they are red states

and won't vote Dem in the general that it shouldn't matter who they prefer in the primary.

As the process moves forward, we just saw Arizona being carried by Hillary, as well as Ohio, Illinois, Florida, and Missouri just last week. Beginning with Utah and Idaho, we are running into a bunch of states with demographics more like New Hampshire's, including my state of Washington. But that will end when we hit the large, diverse state of New York.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #57)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:36 PM

62. No one says that they don't matter in terms of who gets the Dem nomination.

 

What some Bernie supporters suggest is that such states will inevitably go red in the general, and so the ability to win them in the primary is not an indicator that the candidate will do well in the general. That would apply to states like Idaho and Utah as well.

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Response to Vattel (Reply #62)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:53 PM

72. Actually, they do serve as indicators in the general.

The minority voters in the south were good indicators of how African American voters would vote in other states, like MA and Illinois. Their numbers weren't as overwhelming in the northern states, but they still picked Hillary by large margins.

African American and Latino voters are key parts of the Democratic coalition.Obama beat Romney even though Romney won the majority of white voters -- both men and women. Obama did it with a much more diverse coalition, like the one that Hillary is developing -- except that she's attracting the support of the majority of white women.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #72)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:11 PM

80. Okay, I suppose it does tell us something.

 

The important point is that Bernie supporters are not denigrating African American voters in the South when they say that those states won't matter much in the general. The simple fact is that Alabama and Mississippi, for example, like Utah and Idaho, will go red in November.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #57)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:44 PM

67. I would object to any claim a state's preference for Dem nominee -- any state -- didn't matter.

Of course it matters! I'll be on the lookout for claims to the contrary.

It would be valid to observe that a primary/caucus/PPE win in a solidly "red state" is unlikely to translate to a win in the GE. That observation goes for any Dem primary/caucus/PPE win in any state that is skewed way to the right. But I don't consider making that sort of observation to be "discounting" the preference for nominee reflected in the victory. Finding out those preferences is what this whole process is about!

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Response to pat_k (Reply #67)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:59 PM

75. In many of those solidly red states, the large majority of Democrats

are African American voters. Their votes in the South have served as early indicators of how African Americans will vote in other states.

Having their strong support can certainly "translate to a win in the GE." Obama beat Romney even though white men and white women both voted for Romney. Obama won with the support of the African American and Latino voters who are strongly supporting Hillary now. And Hillary also has the support of white women.

It seems like a lot of white, northern Bernie supporters are frustrated that the mostly black Democrats in the South just aren't progressive enough. Well, they're part of our coalition, and we need to welcome all the parts, including the voters in the South.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #75)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:12 PM

81. Agree. Analyzing demographics and voting patterns -- whether in "red states"...

... or "blue states" has predictive value.

A perfect example is the interactive "What Would It Take To Turn Red States Blue?" page on fivethirtyeight.com

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #75)


Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:38 PM

63. Personally, I view it as rank hypocrisy celebrating southern victories.

The Deep South and southerners in general are lambasted on these forums 365 days a year and criticized for both personal and political reasons. There is a long history of southern bashing on DU. It's borderline hysterical to see some of the very same people that participated in that bashing now heaping praise upon the south for its "diversity" and defending against claims of "low-information" voters now that it's primary season.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:47 PM

68. Sour grapes

This is the DU member formerly known as Gothmog.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:01 PM

76. Hypocracy, seeing that ID and UT are far more Republican than any southern state.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:09 PM

78. Maybe because Hillary can't win those states in the general election.

 

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:09 PM

79. Massive number of professional sockpuppets swiftboating Bernie

The pro operators who gave Obama's online supporters such a bad name in 2008 must be working for Hillary now.

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Response to Baobab (Reply #79)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:53 PM

99. Which would explain why I can't tell the Clinton supporters from a typical Republican. (nt)

 

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Response to w4rma (Reply #99)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:23 AM

119. yeah it freaks me out.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:13 PM

82. Helps Bernie = Good, Helps Hillary = Bad

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:32 PM

91. Because it bothers you so much.

 

We send PMs back and forth and giggle our asses off over the consternation we're causing.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #91)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:47 PM

97. You weren't supposed to tell! nt

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:55 PM

101. "How come" stores this year are selling fake eggs for decoration?

 

Why do carbonated beverages exist?

An even better question is why I bothered to reply.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:59 PM

102. We don't do any such thing.

 

Essentially, you are pushing an argument that the only way Bernie can show respect to AA voters in the South is to get out of the race. That's simply not true.

You can't assume AA voters and other POC voters in places like NY and California will be in lockstep with southern AA voters. Most AA's in the Northeast and on the West Coast are progressive.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 01:12 AM

107. It's not good logic, but it's logic.

 

The southern states have a higher proportion of Democrats who are black, but those states almost always go to Republicans in national elections. This raises two points.

The first point is that we are messing around with racial politics. This can be good or bad, depending on how you do it. Some Democrats, most of whom would lean toward Sanders, feel we ought to back off the racial angle before we make ourselves the party that promises anything and everything to minority voters, particularly black voters in southern states, and forgets about other voters. The logic is, if you appeal too hard to southern black voters in the primary, it will be difficult to broaden your appeal in the general election. This is particularly true, the theory holds, in the southern states, where white voters will be more alienated by our candidates emphasizing the racial divide.

The second point is closely related to the first, but assumes western red state Democrats are more representative of the electorate as a whole. The idea here is that southern Democrats are more closely tied to the established party structure, more likely to go with the party favorite, less adventurous, willing to put loyalty ahead of ideals, etc. Yes, it has to do with that racial thing, but it also includes the notion that southern Democrats of all sorts are more comfortable with the tradition of a little nudge nudge, wink wink.

Yeah, there's a lot of stereotyping going on, maybe some suggestion that southern Democrats constitute some kind of coalition between illiterate black sharecroppers and white hillbilly moonshiners. Nobody would come right out and say anything like that, of course, but we all know the power of stereotypes is that they're hints and suggestions, maybe an occasional sly reference, mostly just fuzzy cultural assumptions we may not even realize we're making, or at least buying into.

The truth is that Democratic primary victories in red states are meaningful only in the primary. The candidates have to fight for primary wins any way they can, using whatever messages they believe will appeal to the most Democrats in a particular state. The sniping back and forth between the Clinton and Sanders camps is only natural, but it includes many unfounded assumptions about voters from various racial, ethnic and religious backgrounds. I wouldn't call it bigotry, exactly, but it reflects all sorts of prejudices, assumptions and stereotypes we hold against each other. It would be nice if we could stop and consider how it looks when we say one group of voters is more significant than another, but emotions get the better of us sometimes.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 05:08 AM

109. very pliable

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 07:14 AM

111. I think the answer to that is obvious.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 09:17 AM

113. Picture -- thousand words

 



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Response to pdsimdars (Reply #113)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:21 AM

118. haha! I imagine every hillary supporter to look like this much of the time.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:08 AM

117. I don't buy your premise...

...that there are many BS supporters denigrating Hillary's wins in the South "as unimportant red states" while considering his own red state wins highly significant, beyond perhaps the fact that, being as far behind as he is, ANY chance to pick up delegates is significant. Personally, I think the belittling of red state wins (on the basis that the candidate won't win them in November) was always a silly argument to begin with.

Remember, there is more than one Bernie supporter on the other side of your screen. Unless the *same* user posts contradictory messages, there is no hypocrisy. You can't paint the whole group with every opinion any member has. And if you find one or two members who have actually posted contradictory hypocritical posts, that doesn't make the entire population of BS supporters hypocrites, either.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:26 AM

120. to give nags something meaningless to nag about.

Might kill them to have to face or even figure out their candidate's stance on the issues.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 11:00 AM

122. Another goddamned "supporters" thread. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 11:48 AM

124. Because when a Dem president is elected

those of us in states that vote blue are the ones doing the electing. Why should we be stuck with a nominee we don't want, chosen by people in red states who do nothing to elect Dem presidents?

We don't like it, ok? It isn't that hard to understand. A lot of people are getting tired of doing the heavy lifting, only to have to hold their nose to vote for the party's candidate simply because the Primary process is weighted so heavily in favor of the South.

If it weren't for the anomaly of Obama being black and thereby getting the South's votes as a 1-off, the South would've nominated HRC last time... which is exactly what's happening this time because Sanders is white.

Except for when a black candidate is running, the South is going to vote for the most conservative candidate. And that is not acceptable to blue state voters. It's dragging the party down, and dragging it right.

I think blue states in the previous election should get extra delegates. And I don't think so many Southern states should be at the beginning of the calendar.

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #124)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 02:06 PM

128. The DNC has no control over the Democratic Primary schedule.

 

Why should we be stuck with a nominee we don't want, chosen by people in red states who do nothing to elect Dem presidents?


That is the most relevant part of your (I suspect, unintentionally honest) statement ... Bernie supporters appear fine with a nominee, chosen by the voters in Utah and Idaho ... states that haven't voted Democratic since 1968, i.e., people in red states who do nothing to elect Dem presidents?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #128)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 02:16 PM

130. That's where you would be wrong.

A red state is a red state. And by we I mean Dems in blue states. This is not partisan, it isn't about only this primary, it's any primary. Fact is, Utah and Idaho are not pre-loaded and over-weighted to have way more influence than makes the slightest sense, as the South is.

I'm sure the DNC has no influence over anything at all.

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #130)

Thu Mar 24, 2016, 03:18 PM

131. Does that make sense to you ...

 

are you suggesting that Democrats in "Blue States" should have more say in the Democrats in any other state, beyond their own?

Fact is, Utah and Idaho are not pre-loaded and over-weighted to have way more influence than makes the slightest sense, as the South is.


Huh??? If you want to talk about "pre-loaded and over-weighted", you should, at least mention Vermont, New Hampshire and even Iowa (though, Iowa is more representative of the nation (and Democratic Party) than the other two states).

I'm sure the DNC has no influence over anything at all.


How do you think the primary schedule is made? The DNC MIGHT be able to influence the schedule, IF there is a state with a Democratic Governor AND Democratic super-majorities in both the State's legislatures AND the DNC changes the Tiering rules to not penalize states for moving their dates.

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